Turkey has announced they will send another flotilla to Gaza容scorted by the Turkish Navy! | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 914518 United States 05/31/2010 06:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is appropriate that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is scheduled to meet with President Obama on Tuesday in Washington, because -- as always -- it is only American protection of Israel that permits the Israelis to engage in conduct like this. Initial reports speculate that Netanyahu would cancel that meeting in order to return to Israel in light of this attack. But there would be something quite symbolically appropriate about having the U.S. stand at the side of Israel in the aftermath of this latest massacre, because it is only the massive amounts of U.S. financial and military aid, and endless diplomatic protection, that enables Israel to act with impunity as a rogue and inhumane state. So complete is the devotion of the U.S. Congress to the mission of serving and protecting Israel that it even overwhelmingly condemned the Goldstone report, which found that Israel and Hamas had both commited war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity during the Israeli attack on Gaza (the U.S. Congress, of course, never condemned the Israeli war crimes themselves -- only the Report which documented those crimes). Israeli actions are a direction reflection on, and by-product of, the U.S. Government, because it is the U.S. which enables and protects the behavior. The one silver lining from these incidents is that the real face of Israel becomes increasingly revealed and undeniable. Not even the most intense propaganda systems can prettify a lethal military attack on ships carrying civilians and humanitarian aid to people living in some of the most wretched and tragic conditions anywhere in the world. It is crystal clear to anyone who looks what Israel has become, and the only question left is how will the rest of the world -- beginning with their American patrons -- will react. |
John Donson User ID: 892700 United States 05/31/2010 06:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It hardly seemed possible for Israel -- after its brutal devastation of Gaza and its ongoing blockade -- to engage in more heinous and repugnant crimes. But by attacking a flotilla in international waters carrying humanitarian aid, and slaughtering at least 10 people, Israel has managed to do exactly that. If Israel's goal were to provoke as much disgust and contempt for it as possible, it's hard to imagine how it could be doing a better job. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 914518It is appropriate that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is scheduled to meet with President Obama on Tuesday in Washington, because -- as always -- it is only American protection of Israel that permits the Israelis to engage in conduct like this. Initial reports speculate that Netanyahu would cancel that meeting in order to return to Israel in light of this attack. But there would be something quite symbolically appropriate about having the U.S. stand at the side of Israel in the aftermath of this latest massacre, because it is only the massive amounts of U.S. financial and military aid, and endless diplomatic protection, that enables Israel to act with impunity as a rogue and inhumane state. So complete is the devotion of the U.S. Congress to the mission of serving and protecting Israel that it even overwhelmingly condemned the Goldstone report, which found that Israel and Hamas had both commited war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity during the Israeli attack on Gaza (the U.S. Congress, of course, never condemned the Israeli war crimes themselves -- only the Report which documented those crimes). Israeli actions are a direction reflection on, and by-product of, the U.S. Government, because it is the U.S. which enables and protects the behavior. The one silver lining from these incidents is that the real face of Israel becomes increasingly revealed and undeniable. Not even the most intense propaganda systems can prettify a lethal military attack on ships carrying civilians and humanitarian aid to people living in some of the most wretched and tragic conditions anywhere in the world. It is crystal clear to anyone who looks what Israel has become, and the only question left is how will the rest of the world -- beginning with their American patrons -- will react. I simply disagree! No nation has to allow any boat to approach it without question. History proves that these "Humanitarian" vessels bound for the Palestinian territories are laden with weapons. Why would any nation (not just Israel) allow weapons to be imported to be used against their citizenry? The Turkish govt simply had to get clearance for the flotilla, but they didn't or refused to submit to inspection. The blame is clearly on the Turkish govt for not following simple protocol. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 988064 Greece 05/31/2010 06:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They were held at arms lenth for good reason. Now you see why. Quoting: Bazork!yeah i see why actually. to spoil a country which was brought to be a fucking spoiled brat, ignoring international laws, attacking 11 ships from europe AND united states, shooting a greek captain of a greek ship in the process, arresting and jailing and refusing to give any information on TWO GERMAN PARLIAMENT MEMBERS and a EUROPEAN UNION PARLIAMENT MEMBER to the german ambassador inquiry, two italian citizens missing, isreal refusing to give out any info, attacking 12 ships in INTERNATIONAL waters, directly violating international law. well, to me, it seems that turkey wasnt the one which should be kept in arm's length. Don't put any Greek meaning in to your games. NGOs in this country are free to form and pursue whatever goals they wish as long as they are not engaging in illegal actions. We never acted like it was an exercise of foreign policy like your country did. It's a free country. We had some leftists, same people that like to riot and to brake and burn other peoples property and are used to fondle around with you and sometimes might earn an extra paycheck from you, but thats all there is to it and then and there it stops! Don't try to paint this like something that it is not! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 987952 Canada 05/31/2010 06:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Turkish navy lol. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 979400There are many educated and intelligent people in Turkey. They have the potential to become a worthy modern nation. Yet like so many nations, such as Thailand and Canada, they have an enormous divide between the motivations and aspirations of rural people and urban people. Although officially an Islamic nation, because 99% of people report being Muslim, there are a very large number who have cast Islam aside and in private they are Deist. The military of Turkey was set up along western lines, by Kamil Attaturk, and they are not an insubstantial force, nor are they ill disciplined or poorly trained. In recent years Islamist groups have been making gains in Turkish elections and the divide between the secularists and the Islamists is showing strain on the society. You can be sure that there are some in Turkey who wish to smash Israel and some who do not wish to be in a war. You should not joke about their military effectiveness, nor blame all of the citizens for decisions made on their behalf by some people with some authority. The decision to wave sabers at Israel is more to do with internal political struggle than it is anything else. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 987952 Canada 05/31/2010 06:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It hardly seemed possible for Israel -- after its brutal devastation of Gaza and its ongoing blockade -- to engage in more heinous and repugnant crimes. But by attacking a flotilla in international waters carrying humanitarian aid, and slaughtering at least 10 people, Israel has managed to do exactly that. If Israel's goal were to provoke as much disgust and contempt for it as possible, it's hard to imagine how it could be doing a better job. Quoting: John Donson 892700It is appropriate that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is scheduled to meet with President Obama on Tuesday in Washington, because -- as always -- it is only American protection of Israel that permits the Israelis to engage in conduct like this. Initial reports speculate that Netanyahu would cancel that meeting in order to return to Israel in light of this attack. But there would be something quite symbolically appropriate about having the U.S. stand at the side of Israel in the aftermath of this latest massacre, because it is only the massive amounts of U.S. financial and military aid, and endless diplomatic protection, that enables Israel to act with impunity as a rogue and inhumane state. So complete is the devotion of the U.S. Congress to the mission of serving and protecting Israel that it even overwhelmingly condemned the Goldstone report, which found that Israel and Hamas had both commited war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity during the Israeli attack on Gaza (the U.S. Congress, of course, never condemned the Israeli war crimes themselves -- only the Report which documented those crimes). Israeli actions are a direction reflection on, and by-product of, the U.S. Government, because it is the U.S. which enables and protects the behavior. The one silver lining from these incidents is that the real face of Israel becomes increasingly revealed and undeniable. Not even the most intense propaganda systems can prettify a lethal military attack on ships carrying civilians and humanitarian aid to people living in some of the most wretched and tragic conditions anywhere in the world. It is crystal clear to anyone who looks what Israel has become, and the only question left is how will the rest of the world -- beginning with their American patrons -- will react. ----------------------------------------------------------- I simply disagree! No nation has to allow any boat to approach it without question. History proves that these "Humanitarian" vessels bound for the Palestinian territories are laden with weapons. Why would any nation (not just Israel) allow weapons to be imported to be used against their citizenry? The Turkish govt simply had to get clearance for the flotilla, but they didn't or refused to submit to inspection. The blame is clearly on the Turkish govt for not following simple protocol. It is too easy to condemn one side or the other. We all see the world through the lens of our prejudices, and not a balanced view based on reality or international law. The fact that they just went ahead says something about the attitude and agenda of some people in the Turkish government. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 988064 Greece 05/31/2010 06:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bad move on Turkey's part. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 963431The flotilla's "peace activists" were attacking IDF soldiers boarding the ship. I give the peace activist +1 for balls, to attack armed men with sticks and stones and clubs is pretty darn big ========= we should all be blessed with a William Wallace gene,but wait you are, it's a gift from nature: and it's name is FREEDOM. It's called hashish. It can do wonders. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 988064 Greece 05/31/2010 06:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Turkish navy lol. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 987952There are many educated and intelligent people in Turkey. They have the potential to become a worthy modern nation. Yet like so many nations, such as Thailand and Canada, they have an enormous divide between the motivations and aspirations of rural people and urban people. Although officially an Islamic nation, because 99% of people report being Muslim, there are a very large number who have cast Islam aside and in private they are Deist. The military of Turkey was set up along western lines, by Kamil Attaturk, and they are not an insubstantial force, nor are they ill disciplined or poorly trained. In recent years Islamist groups have been making gains in Turkish elections and the divide between the secularists and the Islamists is showing strain on the society. You can be sure that there are some in Turkey who wish to smash Israel and some who do not wish to be in a war. You should not joke about their military effectiveness, nor blame all of the citizens for decisions made on their behalf by some people with some authority. The decision to wave sabers at Israel is more to do with internal political struggle than it is anything else. You know what? They were an intelligent modern nation or part of something similar, even before the Ottomans arrived. Now they only need to explain to us what was wrong with that nation/s and these Ottomans thought they would need to tear it asunder pillage, rape, enslave, genocide and force everyone out of their faiths. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 982773 United States 05/31/2010 06:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 988153 Brazil 05/31/2010 06:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Yeah, the Israeli shills are out in force today. Out to promote their shitty pro-Isreal propaganda. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982773Yeah really. But it ain't gonna work this time. The whole world's fed up with these assholes. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 873257 Canada 05/31/2010 07:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I simply disagree! No nation has to allow any boat to approach it without question. History proves that these "Humanitarian" vessels bound for the Palestinian territories are laden with weapons. Why would any nation (not just Israel) allow weapons to be imported to be used against their citizenry? Quoting: John Donson 892700The Turkish govt simply had to get clearance for the flotilla, but they didn't or refused to submit to inspection. The blame is clearly on the Turkish govt for not following simple protocol. Your points make no sense. Either you lack a clear understanding of the situation, or are blinded by a loyalty of some sort. First and foremost, Israel made a GRAVE error by acting in International waters, rather than waiting for the ships to reach territorial waters. The moment they did that, they abandoned all legitimacy, and committed an act of piracy under the 1958 Geneva Convention on the High Seas. As such, they abrogated the right for any decisions on culpability to be regional, and instead made this act a matter for International courts. Secondly, I find it vastly amusing and yet HIGHLY saddening that so many are assuming that the vessels were carrying weaponry. It is BLATANTLY obvious that this isn't the case, and simple logic makes that point. Why, you ask? Because ANY sort of armament or weaponry, or indeed undeclared smuggling of ANY type of goods, would completely undermine the legitimacy of the mission, and it's central point. These ships KNEW that at some point, they would be boarded and searched with a fine-toothed comb, and indeed that there was a very real chance of Israeli forces "finding" suspicious items that the brought along themselves. Furthermore, the risks involved would CERTAINLY not make sense to ANYONE, as due to said inspections, the amount of armament that MIGHT be able to slip past an inspection would be so insignificant as to make the risk utterly futile. And finally, the precise and stated POINT of this mission was to symbolically "break" the blockade on Gaza, with humanitarian aid as the goal. They most certainly did NOT refuse inspection, as they were never offered the chance. They diverted their course far west of the original path to AVOID night-time hostilities with IDF forces, with the intent of not seeing just the type of incident which, ultimately, took place anyways. Their stated OBJECTIVE was to make a point to the world at large, peacefully but definitively. I do not touch on the motivations of either side, and my feelings on the matter are a moot point. No matter the angle you approach this from, Israel is legally liable and at fault in this situation, the entire world knows it, and no amount of spin can change that. I believe they've finally stepped into a situation that they cannot just brush off, and we will all be VERY lucky if the suffering we've seen so far is all that we will be subjected to. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 988077 United States 05/31/2010 07:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
THOR User ID: 956678 United States 05/31/2010 07:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
John Donson User ID: 892700 United States 05/31/2010 07:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | First and foremost, Israel made a GRAVE error by acting in International waters, rather than waiting for the ships to reach territorial waters. The moment they did that, they abandoned all legitimacy, and committed an act of piracy under the 1958 Geneva Convention on the High Seas. As such, they abrogated the right for any decisions on culpability to be regional, and instead made this act a matter for International courts. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 873257Secondly, I find it vastly amusing and yet HIGHLY saddening that so many are assuming that the vessels were carrying weaponry. It is BLATANTLY obvious that this isn't the case, and simple logic makes that point. Why, you ask? Because ANY sort of armament or weaponry, or indeed undeclared smuggling of ANY type of goods, would completely undermine the legitimacy of the mission, and it's central point. These ships KNEW that at some point, they would be boarded and searched with a fine-toothed comb, and indeed that there was a very real chance of Israeli forces "finding" suspicious items that the brought along themselves. Furthermore, the risks involved would CERTAINLY not make sense to ANYONE, as due to said inspections, the amount of armament that MIGHT be able to slip past an inspection would be so insignificant as to make the risk utterly futile. And finally, the precise and stated POINT of this mission was to symbolically "break" the blockade on Gaza, with humanitarian aid as the goal. They most certainly did NOT refuse inspection, as they were never offered the chance. They diverted their course far west of the original path to AVOID night-time hostilities with IDF forces, with the intent of not seeing just the type of incident which, ultimately, took place anyways. Their stated OBJECTIVE was to make a point to the world at large, peacefully but definitively. I do not touch on the motivations of either side, and my feelings on the matter are a moot point. No matter the angle you approach this from, Israel is legally liable and at fault in this situation, the entire world knows it, and no amount of spin can change that. I believe they've finally stepped into a situation that they cannot just brush off, and we will all be VERY lucky if the suffering we've seen so far is all that we will be subjected to. Quickly, because this post is too long, Your first point is wrong because the entire world knew those boats were headed for Gaza. Make no question about it! Secondly, those boats should have a minifest to verify what the ship had on board if their true intent was humanitarian. Why was it not approved by the Red Crescent if this was the case? They refused inspection by beating the IDF with sticks. How many humanitarian vessels carry sticks? They were expecting the IDF and chose to use sticks and fight, so they already accepted the fact they were going to fight no matter what the IDF was going to tell them. Seems to me that somebody was writing checks they couldn't cash. Why try to go through the back door when they only have to sign their name at the front door? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 873257 Canada 05/31/2010 07:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 've seen so far is all that we will be subjected to. Quoting: John Donson 892700Quickly, because this post is too long, Your first point is wrong because the entire world knew those boats were headed for Gaza. Make no question about it! Secondly, those boats should have a minifest to verify what the ship had on board if their true intent was humanitarian. Why was it not approved by the Red Crescent if this was the case? They refused inspection by beating the IDF with sticks. How many humanitarian vessels carry sticks? They were expecting the IDF and chose to use sticks and fight, so they already accepted the fact they were going to fight no matter what the IDF was going to tell them. Seems to me that somebody was writing checks they couldn't cash. Why try to go through the back door when they only have to sign their name at the front door? You've obviously missed the ENTIRE point of my post... or simply ignore facts due to some misguided loyalty. Whatever the case may be, facts ARE, and are not subjective. My first point is 100% correct. Where they were heading is not in question, never WAS in question, and is intirely irrelevant. Where they were ATTACKED, however, IS the point. Let me put this in simple terms for you... if you beat someone to death on the sidewalk, even if you are POSITIVE that they are GOING to enter your house and threaten your wife, you go to jail for murder... period. This is not subject to circumstance, this is LAW. Had the IDF followed a proper approach and boarding procedure, it's possible that they WOULD have allowed search, and presented manifests... we'll never know, because again, the IDF broke THE LAW and committed an act of piracy. Not "kind of," but again simple fact. And in point of fact, even using "live" ammo as opposed to less-lethal ammunition is a criminal offence... Self-defence is a legal argument, but retaliation with excessive force puts people in jail every day. And again, the POINT was to break the blockade, you imbecile. Hence not "signing in." This was a protest of the illegal blockade of Gaza, or are you REALLY so numb to reality that you can't understand this? Don't bother responding. You're neither intellectually nor emotinally mature enough to debate this, and your fixed view is obviously blinding you to anything else. Believe what you like, it matters little to me, but by the same token, don't whine and snivel when your severely limited world-view gets shattered like the fragile thing that it is. Cheers! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 987952 Canada 05/31/2010 07:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Turkish navy lol. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988064There are many educated and intelligent people in Turkey. They have the potential to become a worthy modern nation. Yet like so many nations, such as Thailand and Canada, they have an enormous divide between the motivations and aspirations of rural people and urban people. Although officially an Islamic nation, because 99% of people report being Muslim, there are a very large number who have cast Islam aside and in private they are Deist. The military of Turkey was set up along western lines, by Kamil Attaturk, and they are not an insubstantial force, nor are they ill disciplined or poorly trained. In recent years Islamist groups have been making gains in Turkish elections and the divide between the secularists and the Islamists is showing strain on the society. You can be sure that there are some in Turkey who wish to smash Israel and some who do not wish to be in a war. You should not joke about their military effectiveness, nor blame all of the citizens for decisions made on their behalf by some people with some authority. The decision to wave sabers at Israel is more to do with internal political struggle than it is anything else. ------------------------------------------------------------ You know what? They were an intelligent modern nation or part of something similar, even before the Ottomans arrived. Now they only need to explain to us what was wrong with that nation/s and these Ottomans thought they would need to tear it asunder pillage, rape, enslave, genocide and force everyone out of their faiths. Well of course that is the truth is it not. The Ottamans and their general type have been a bane to intelligent cultured peoples for a long time and continue to be so. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 987952 Canada 05/31/2010 07:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Islamic fundelmentalist party in Turkey has made large gains in government and has methodically, over the last three years, been arresting and imprisoning the upper echelon of the turkish military ( for a " attempted Coup in 2003). The military in the past has had held the country back from becoming a muslim theocracy. That's all changed now, and the Flotilla to Israel was/is just a probe to see how far the Turk/Muslim hardliners can push Israel. Remember it was the Turk Ottoman empire that was the last incarnation of the Islamic Caliphate. Can anyone say Sharia Law? Thats where Turkey is heading now. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 988077Yes and a heavy defeat for them will be the only way to free them of the Islamists. One wonders if the Islamists are being egged on at this point by their opposition. |
Bluebird User ID: 730536 United States 05/31/2010 07:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why does Turkey want to provoke Israel? The Turks already understand that this will lead to aggression. Is this what they want? Quoting: John Donson 892700Why, yes, it is exactly what they want. I believe this is called an invasion. Israel has every right to defend herself and will act accordingly. One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one. Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway. Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 988181 United States 05/31/2010 08:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | All please note: these transmissions are monitored. All those who engage in criticism of the actions of Israel and its IDF WILL have their IPs logged, and physical identities and locations noted. This information will be cross-referenced with our ever expanding anti-Zionist database. Any expression of anti-Semetic thoughts, words, or actions will be dealt with harshly. |
deeznutz User ID: 927903 Canada 05/31/2010 08:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
D.Dawson User ID: 885363 Canada 05/31/2010 08:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Now that the Jews are America's permanent enemy We will need to clear the way for the Turkish Navy. And while we are at[liveleak] it we must strike out their nukes, Leaving them in shamble, helpless, and alone. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 982773 United States 05/31/2010 08:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Pondlady02 RN User ID: 962375 United States 05/31/2010 08:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 984999 United States 05/31/2010 08:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Quoting: Anonymous Coward 987918 not a good idea lets see what can we do to just push the door down!!! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 984999 United States 05/31/2010 08:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 984999 United States 05/31/2010 08:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why does Turkey want to provoke Israel? The Turks already understand that this will lead to aggression. Is this what they want? Quoting: BluebirdWhy, yes, it is exactly what they want. I believe this is called an invasion. Israel has every right to defend herself and will act accordingly. hey blue nice baseball game on Sunday eh!!! Geaux Tigers |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 983899 Argentina 05/31/2010 08:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why does Turkey want to provoke Israel? The Turks already understand that this will lead to aggression. Is this what they want? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 987718There is a game between Turkey and Iran as to whom will be the Muslim world leader country. So, I guess, Turkey has only to win by this, since under the international pressure they would have to let the flotillas to reach Gaza. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 956678 United States 05/31/2010 08:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 793891 United States 05/31/2010 08:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why does Turkey want to provoke Israel? The Turks already understand that this will lead to aggression. Is this what they want? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 987718There is a game between Turkey and Iran as to whom will be the Muslim world leader country. So, I guess, Turkey has only to win by this, since under the international pressure they would have to let the flotillas to reach Gaza. I think they are in a contest to see who gets the shit nuked out of them first. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 956678 United States 05/31/2010 08:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why does Turkey want to provoke Israel? The Turks already understand that this will lead to aggression. Is this what they want? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 793891There is a game between Turkey and Iran as to whom will be the Muslim world leader country. So, I guess, Turkey has only to win by this, since under the international pressure they would have to let the flotillas to reach Gaza. I think they are in a contest to see who gets the shit nuked out of them first. Iran is a pretty country. However several nukes on Turkey would be an improvement. |
THOR User ID: 956678 United States 05/31/2010 08:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Yeah, the pro-Israeli shills are out in force today. Out to promote their shitty Zionist propaganda. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 982773I guess that makes me a shill. And that means so much coming from an AC...... |