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Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!

 
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 04:08 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
What is your definition of Chemtrail?

What is your definition of Contrail?


The only thing I would remotely call a chemtrail would be the spray or dust being released from an aircraft doing an agricultural application. These sorties are carried out at very low altitudes and under strict guide lines pertaining to weather.

A contrail is the exhaust trails left in the sky by jet aircraft, under certain weather conditions these trails can persist or linger.



Exactly right. Con-trails are water vapor that the atmosphere could not absorb because the relative humidity of the air was too high. When the atmosphere can't absorb the water vapor, it freezes to condensation nuclei and becomes visible.

Don't you chem-tards think that if they really were trying to kill your lame asses off spraying chemicals that they'd figure a way to make it invisible? It'd be easier to just put the shit in the water supply and you'd never know the difference.

Instead, George wants you to believe that tens of thousands of professional pilots and tens of thousands of mechanics are willing to do the dirty work and NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM refuses to do it nor will they come forward to spill the beans on the operation.

You fucks needs to form a cult. Call it the "Chem-tard cult."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

Who said that Chemtrails are always visible? Who said Chemtrails were designed to poison people?
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
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06/14/2010 04:10 PM
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 04:17 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Moreover, no pilot would allow their fuel to be contaminated with chemicals.


Your are right . . . no pilot would allow their fuel to be contaminated with chemicals (knowingly) . . . what about all the chmeicals they don't even think about that are already there . . . . it is a complex story! BTW Metals like Lead don't just burn up . . . they are there after 2000 degrees of heat.

[link to www.csgnetwork.com]
AVIATION FUEL ADDITIVES

Aviation fuel additives are compounds added to the fuel in very small quantities, usually measurable only in parts per million, to provide special or improved qualities. The quantity to be added and approval for its use in various grades of fuel is strictly controlled by the appropriate specifications.

A few additives in common use are as follows:

1. Anti-knock additives reduce the tendency of gasoline to detonate. Tetra-ethyl lead (TEL) is the only approved anti-knock additive for aviation use and has been used in motor and aviation gasolines since the early 1930s.

2. Anti-oxidants prevent the formation of gum deposits on fuel system components caused by oxidation of the fuel in storage and also inhibit the formation of peroxide compounds in certain jet fuels.

3. Static dissipater additives reduce the hazardous effects of static electricity generated by movement of fuel through modern high flow-rate fuel transfer systems. Static dissipater additives do not reduce the need for `bonding' to ensure electrical continuity between metal components (e.g. aircraft and fuelling equipment) nor do they influence hazards from lightning strikes.

4. Corrosion inhibitors protect ferrous metals in fuel handling systems, such as pipelines and fuel storage tanks, from corrosion. Some corrosion inhibitors also improve the lubricating properties (lubricity) of certain jet fuels.

5. Fuel System Icing Inhibitors (Anti-icing additives) reduce the freezing point of water precipitated from jet fuels due to cooling at high altitudes and prevent the formation of ice crystals which restrict the flow of fuel to the engine. This type of additive does not affect the freezing point of the fuel itself. Anti-icing additives can also provide some protection against microbiological growth in jet fuel.

6. Metal de-activators suppress the catalytic effect which some metals, particularly copper, have on fuel oxidation.

7. Biocide additives are sometimes used to combat microbiological growths in jet fuel, often by direct addition to aircraft tanks; as indicated above some anti-icing additives appear to possess biocidal properties.

8. Thermal Stability Improver additives are sometimes used in military JP-8 fuel, to produce a grade referred to as JP-8+100, to inhibit deposit formation in the high temperature areas of the aircraft fuel system.

POWER BOOSTING FLUIDS


JP-8 is formulated with icing inhibitor, corrosion inhibitors, lubricants, and antistatic agents, and less benzene (a carcinogen) and less n-hexane (a neurotoxin) than JP-4. However, it also smells stronger than JP-4. JP-8 has an oily feel to the touch, while JP-4 feels more like a solvent. Workers have complained of smelling and tasting JP-8 for hours after exposure. As JP-8 is less volatile, it remains on the contaminated surfaces for longer time, increasing the risk of exposure.[4]
[link to en.wikipedia.org]




George, let me help you out here. TEL (tetra-ethyl lead) is an additive they put in Avgas. That is stuff we burn in small general aviation piston-driven airplanes. No con trails or chem trails there George.

Airliners and the USAF use JP-4, not JP-8. I have no clue who uses JP-8. Maybe the navy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

Who said small general aviation airplanes could not be used for the purposes of particulate distribution? It wouldn't be my choice; however, I think we underestimate the relatively small amount of particulates needed to accomplish a significant Meteorological effect.

Last Edited by George B on 06/14/2010 04:19 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2010 04:18 PM
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
I would like to add to the mix a list of musical artists whom have made mention of the phenomenon, some directly, some indirectly:

Beck - Chemtrails (on the Modern Guilt Album. This tune is almost a cover of aphrodites child - the four horsemen)

Radiohead – Sail to the Moon. (Brush the Cobwebs Out of the Sky)

The Good, the Bad & the Queen - Kingdom of Doom "there's a noise in the sky, following all the rules and not asking why"

Gorillaz - Rhinestone Eyes "same time every day, same routine, a clear target in summer, when skies are blue. it's part of the noise when winter comes, it reverberates in my lungs, natures corrupted, in factories far away"

Black Eyed Peas - Where is the Love?




There are others I cannot think of right now, please add
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 04:28 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
I would like to add to the mix a list of musical artists whom have made mention of the phenomenon, some directly, some indirectly:

Beck - Chemtrails (on the Modern Guilt Album. This tune is almost a cover of aphrodites child - the four horsemen)

Radiohead – Sail to the Moon. (Brush the Cobwebs Out of the Sky)

The Good, the Bad & the Queen - Kingdom of Doom "there's a noise in the sky, following all the rules and not asking why"

Gorillaz - Rhinestone Eyes "same time every day, same routine, a clear target in summer, when skies are blue. it's part of the noise when winter comes, it reverberates in my lungs, natures corrupted, in factories far away"

Black Eyed Peas - Where is the Love?




There are others I cannot think of right now, please add
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1003172

Vid is interesting . . . this tries to connect the dots between Chemtrails etc. with the NWO. To prove Chemtrails exist one does not have to assign a motive to the process. I feel reality is very, very complex and Chemtrails do not have to be motivated by evil intent to be valid.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 04:35 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Your are right . . . no pilot would allow their fuel to be contaminated with chemicals (knowingly) . . . what about all the chmeicals they don't even think about that are already there . . . . it is a complex story! BTW Metals like Lead don't just burn up . . . they are there after 2000 degrees of heat.
[link to www.csgnetwork.com]




George, let me help you out here. TEL (tetra-ethyl lead) is an additive they put in Avgas. That is stuff we burn in small general aviation piston-driven airplanes. No con trails or chem trails there George.

Airliners and the USAF use JP-4, not JP-8. I have no clue who uses JP-8. Maybe the navy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

I assume prior to unleaded gasoline the TEL was also in Jet Fuel . . . am I incorrect? The point is the lead when burned in 2000 degree heat did not disappear into soot.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 04:41 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
are you not seeing persistent Contrails or Chemtrails over Denmark?



sometimes if a plain spray in the morning, it can been see all day as cloud/fog


like milky white or how, should i explain it.


DANE
 Quoting: DANE 762849

There are people who think that is very natural . . . and they will tell you they are just cirrus clouds; however, there are other people who will tell you they are sometimes ChemClouds. Come to the debate in July.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2010 04:54 PM
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
The entire state of Florida is about to Drown in a
Toxic Soup of Benzene,Hydrogen Sulfide,Corexit and who
knows what other kind of Toxic bull shit,And You Stupid
Chemtards are still Yappin about ChemTrails...WTF??

STFU With Your Stupid,Imaginary-fairy-tales!!!


Chemtrails.... norespect


stfu
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 711379


Big mistake buddy! You just seriously contradicted yourself by mentioning Corexit.

typical sheep
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/14/2010 04:56 PM
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
You fucks needs to form a cult. Call it the "Chem-tard cult."

Who said that Chemtrails are always visible? Who said Chemtrails were designed to poison people?
 Quoting: George B



Now you're finally starting to wake up.

Now you're changing the subject and you're trying to save face behind redefining the term "Chem-trail."

Before it was "what goes up must come down."

Now, you're trying to say there never was any intent to poison people.

Ha ha... Got ya, bitch!
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 04:56 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Your are right . . . no pilot would allow their fuel to be contaminated with chemicals (knowingly) . . . what about all the chmeicals they don't even think about that are already there . . . . it is a complex story! BTW Metals like Lead don't just burn up . . . they are there after 2000 degrees of heat.
[link to www.csgnetwork.com]




George, let me help you out here. TEL (tetra-ethyl lead) is an additive they put in Avgas. That is stuff we burn in small general aviation piston-driven airplanes. No con trails or chem trails there George.

Airliners and the USAF use JP-4, not JP-8. I have no clue who uses JP-8. Maybe the navy.

I assume prior to unleaded gasoline the TEL was also in Jet Fuel . . . am I incorrect? The point is the lead when burned in 2000 degree heat did not disappear into soot.
 Quoting: George B


ANSWER: see below
The invention of jet engines created another challenge for engine designers. They did not require a fuel that vaporized (turned to a gaseous state) as easily as AvGas, but they did have other requirements. Instead of using gasoline, they chose kerosene or a kerosene-gasoline mix. The first jet fuel was known as JP-1 (for "Jet Propellant"), but the U.S. military soon sought fuels with better qualities. They wanted fuels that did not produce visible smoke and which were also less likely to produce contrails (the visible trail of condensed water vapor or ice crystals caused when water condenses in aircraft exhaust at certain altitudes). But a major requirement was for fuels that did not ignite at low temperatures in order to reduce the chance of fire.
[link to www.centennialofflight.gov]
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 05:04 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
You fucks needs to form a cult. Call it the "Chem-tard cult."

Who said that Chemtrails are always visible? Who said Chemtrails were designed to poison people?



Now you're finally starting to wake up.

Now you're changing the subject and you're trying to save face behind redefining the term "Chem-trail."

Before it was "what goes up must come down."

Now, you're trying to say there never was any intent to poison people.

Ha ha... Got ya, bitch!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

I don't know where you are getting your information. From the beginning of this Thread I never assigned any motive to the use of Chemtrails or even defined Chemtrails. I will note that there are people who think that they are used to poison people . . . until that can be proved or disproved I think it is best to stick to less emotional debate issues. And trust me I am not "TRYING to SAVE FACE . . . if I was going to do that I would have never started this Thread in the first place.

Sorry, I have to run for a few hours. I will return.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2010 05:20 PM
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Your are right . . . no pilot would allow their fuel to be contaminated with chemicals (knowingly) . . . what about all the chmeicals they don't even think about that are already there . . . . it is a complex story! BTW Metals like Lead don't just burn up . . . they are there after 2000 degrees of heat.
[link to www.csgnetwork.com]




George, let me help you out here. TEL (tetra-ethyl lead) is an additive they put in Avgas. That is stuff we burn in small general aviation piston-driven airplanes. No con trails or chem trails there George.

Airliners and the USAF use JP-4, not JP-8. I have no clue who uses JP-8. Maybe the navy.

I assume prior to unleaded gasoline the TEL was also in Jet Fuel . . . am I incorrect? The point is the lead when burned in 2000 degree heat did not disappear into soot.
 Quoting: George B



Ok, George, I am going to stop insulting you. Here it is, straight-up.

Back in the '70s general aviation gasoline was called 100 - 130. It was green and guaranteed a 100 octane at a lean mixture setting and a 130 octane at a rich mixture setting. It had a shit load of TEL in it. That TEL fouled the shit out of the plugs in a typical general aviation engine. Eventually, they came up with 100LL. The LL stands for "low lead." It's blue and has a shit load less TEL in it. In college (I went to Embry Riddle Aeronautical University) they taught me why there was so much TEL in 100-130, but I forgot why that was - it was 30 years ago.

I have owned my own airplane for decades.

Anyway, I have no idea whether there was ever any TEL in jet fuel. It has been known forever that there are living microbes in jet fuel, but they never were a factor in reduced power output of a jet engine. I have no idea why they'd add something to kill the microbes - they're no big deal.

Here's the point to the chem-trail deal... the chem-tards don't stop to think that the pilots will be gassed after they land. Who the hell thinks tens of thousands of pilots would poison the atmosphere when they would really be fucking not only themselves, but their own families?

Do the chem-tards really thing pilots would be immune from all this poisoning?

You are much closer to chemical poisoning on the street outside your house where the wind isn't blowing the shit away from you at 100 mph like it is in the jet stream. Anything spewed out the back of a jet over this country won't hit the ground until it's over Europe or Asia and by then it will be so widely dispersed that it won't be a factor to anyone.
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 06:55 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Your are right . . . no pilot would allow their fuel to be contaminated with chemicals (knowingly) . . . what about all the chmeicals they don't even think about that are already there . . . . it is a complex story! BTW Metals like Lead don't just burn up . . . they are there after 2000 degrees of heat.
[link to www.csgnetwork.com]




George, let me help you out here. TEL (tetra-ethyl lead) is an additive they put in Avgas. That is stuff we burn in small general aviation piston-driven airplanes. No con trails or chem trails there George.

Airliners and the USAF use JP-4, not JP-8. I have no clue who uses JP-8. Maybe the navy.

I assume prior to unleaded gasoline the TEL was also in Jet Fuel . . . am I incorrect? The point is the lead when burned in 2000 degree heat did not disappear into soot.



Ok, George, I am going to stop insulting you. Here it is, straight-up.

Back in the '70s general aviation gasoline was called 100 - 130. It was green and guaranteed a 100 octane at a lean mixture setting and a 130 octane at a rich mixture setting. It had a shit load of TEL in it. That TEL fouled the shit out of the plugs in a typical general aviation engine. Eventually, they came up with 100LL. The LL stands for "low lead." It's blue and has a shit load less TEL in it. In college (I went to Embry Riddle Aeronautical University) they taught me why there was so much TEL in 100-130, but I forgot why that was - it was 30 years ago.

I have owned my own airplane for decades.

Anyway, I have no idea whether there was ever any TEL in jet fuel. It has been known forever that there are living microbes in jet fuel, but they never were a factor in reduced power output of a jet engine. I have no idea why they'd add something to kill the microbes - they're no big deal.

Here's the point to the chem-trail deal... the chem-tards don't stop to think that the pilots will be gassed after they land. Who the hell thinks tens of thousands of pilots would poison the atmosphere when they would really be fucking not only themselves, but their own families?

Do the chem-tards really thing pilots would be immune from all this poisoning?

You are much closer to chemical poisoning on the street outside your house where the wind isn't blowing the shit away from you at 100 mph like it is in the jet stream. Anything spewed out the back of a jet over this country won't hit the ground until it's over Europe or Asia and by then it will be so widely dispersed that it won't be a factor to anyone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

Thanks very much for your information . . . it is about what I expected. The thing is that the Contrail/Chemtrail thing is as I said very complex.
I know no reasonable pilot is going to poison him/her self or their loved ones.

My position is that Chemtrails are used for many different objectives and they can be identified.

Let me ask you a few questions . . . as a pilot (of a multi-engine jet commercial jetliner) would you always know if you were laying down a Contrail . . . or would you even care?

Do you know any other information about your fuel other than the gallons (or pounds) and type of fuel you received?

Do you know what is truly in the fuel in the aircraft you are are flying?

Do you always know the source of the fuel you are flying with . . . as long as you have no engine performance issues you probably are not overly concerned?

Last Edited by George B on 06/14/2010 08:22 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2010 08:40 PM
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Excellent questions. Seriously.

As to knowing whether we're conning, there are two ways:

First, if you're flying a fighter (I was an F-16 pilot) your wingman will tell you when you start to con. Being line-abreat, they can see your 6:00 and can see it. We used to climb up to find the con altitude before a mock battle because we wouldn't want to give our position away - we'd climb to find the con flight level (flight level is altitude) and then fight below that altitude. The con flight level changes with the charachteristics of the atmosphere. Every hour it's different at every altitude, so we'd have to check it before every engagement.

Second, in an airliner where you have no wingman that can check your 6:00, the only way I was ever able to tell if we were conning was to look at other airplanes at close to my altitude, OR, if the sun was at the right angle - looking at my shadow. The airplane and the con cast a shadow - if the sun is at the right angle you can see it.

As to the fuel - yes. The fueler who pumps fuel into the jet gives us a "report" (fuel slip). That report indicates the quantity of fuel, the tanks the fuel was put in to and the type of fuel that we were fueled with.

As an interesting aside - since jet fuel weighs approximatly 6.7 lbs per gallon and since .67 (decimal shift intended) is mathematically two-thirds... it was easy to check the weight of the fuel in the airplane.

If they pumped 10000 lbs of fuel into the airplane, you divide 10,000 by 2/3 (when you divide by a fraction you multiply by the inverse of the fraction - 10,000 x 3/2 (or 1.5) - disregarding the decimal) and you get 1500 gallons.

So, when you're pumping jet fuel, take the pounds and multiply by 1.5 and you get gallons divided by ten.

Now, as to these aerial photos you have - these are air-refueling tanker tracts. In a war, you have to have many gas stations in the sky. Tankers orbit waiting to give gas to returning fighters. That is what those cons are - unless they're photoshopped.

As to the oval cons in a previous post, that is an FCF tract. I was an FCF pilot. FCF stands for "Functional check flight." Whenever a military or commercial jet has an engine change or a flight control change, it has to be tested on a flight before it can be used operationally. Those tests have to be conducted withing a certain airspace. So, the pilot goes out a ways and then turns and comes back towards home base. They have to stay in military airspace. If they get back home and the test isn't complete, they turn away and do it again. There is no conspiracy there.
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 09:44 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Excellent questions. Seriously.

As to knowing whether we're conning, there are two ways:

First, if you're flying a fighter (I was an F-16 pilot) your wingman will tell you when you start to con. Being line-abreat, they can see your 6:00 and can see it. We used to climb up to find the con altitude before a mock battle because we wouldn't want to give our position away - we'd climb to find the con flight level (flight level is altitude) and then fight below that altitude. The con flight level changes with the charachteristics of the atmosphere. Every hour it's different at every altitude, so we'd have to check it before every engagement.

Second, in an airliner where you have no wingman that can check your 6:00, the only way I was ever able to tell if we were conning was to look at other airplanes at close to my altitude, OR, if the sun was at the right angle - looking at my shadow. The airplane and the con cast a shadow - if the sun is at the right angle you can see it.

As to the fuel - yes. The fueler who pumps fuel into the jet gives us a "report" (fuel slip). That report indicates the quantity of fuel, the tanks the fuel was put in to and the type of fuel that we were fueled with.

As an interesting aside - since jet fuel weighs approximatly 6.7 lbs per gallon and since .67 (decimal shift intended) is mathematically two-thirds... it was easy to check the weight of the fuel in the airplane.

If they pumped 10000 lbs of fuel into the airplane, you divide 10,000 by 2/3 (when you divide by a fraction you multiply by the inverse of the fraction - 10,000 x 3/2 (or 1.5) - disregarding the decimal) and you get 1500 gallons.

So, when you're pumping jet fuel, take the pounds and multiply by 1.5 and you get gallons divided by ten.

Now, as to these aerial photos you have - these are air-refueling tanker tracts. In a war, you have to have many gas stations in the sky. Tankers orbit waiting to give gas to returning fighters. That is what those cons are - unless they're photoshopped.

As to the oval cons in a previous post, that is an FCF tract. I was an FCF pilot. FCF stands for "Functional check flight." Whenever a military or commercial jet has an engine change or a flight control change, it has to be tested on a flight before it can be used operationally. Those tests have to be conducted withing a certain airspace. So, the pilot goes out a ways and then turns and comes back towards home base. They have to stay in military airspace. If they get back home and the test isn't complete, they turn away and do it again. There is no conspiracy there.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

Thanks . . . excellent information. The concept most Advocates wrestle with is what is normal flight procedure and what is abnormal. The photos I used were there just to spur on discussion . . . I really was not certain if I would have called them Chemtrails; however, there are research papers via military and corporate sources describing the use of airborne particulate to extend and get better defined imaging in over-the-horizon situations. It has been therefore inferred that an early version of this technology could have been used in the Gulf Wars.

Last Edited by George B on 06/14/2010 09:58 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
By your definition of "chemtrails," you may as well be arguing that every car, bus, motorcycle, snowmobile and boat is a chemtrail generator.
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2010 10:29 PM
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
By your definition of "chemtrails," you may as well be arguing that every car, bus, motorcycle, snowmobile and boat is a chemtrail generator.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293



And that being the case, I have no idea why you'd feel the need to debate it or try to convince someone that you're right.

What's news about a moped and a weed eater throwing off exhaust?
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 10:33 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Excellent questions. Seriously.

 Quoting: George B

May I ask your opinion on two additional questions?

1. Is it possible that some new fuel additive could be much more capable of forming nuclei than previous additives? Thus the longer persistence of trails and the eventual fromation of cirrus clouds?

Note: It has been implied by NASA that the smaller the particulate nuclei the more albedo effect the curris clouds that form from them have . . . thus a cooling effect on the earth.

2. Is it possible that there has been a real increase in persistent trails and resulting cirrus clouds?

Note: My personal observations seem to show this. This is a hard one to pin down . . . because you never see the number of jeeps on the road until you buy one yourself . . . that is, can we really go back and count the trails and cirrus clouds in years past and compare them to recent frequency?
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 711379
United States
06/14/2010 10:40 PM
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
The entire state of Florida is about to Drown in a
Toxic Soup of Benzene,Hydrogen Sulfide,Corexit and who
knows what other kind of Toxic bull shit,And You Stupid
Chemtards are still Yappin about ChemTrails...WTF??

STFU With Your Stupid,Imaginary-fairy-tales!!!


Chemtrails.... norespect


stfu


Big mistake buddy! You just seriously contradicted yourself by mentioning Corexit.

typical sheep
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 900066


WTF are you talking about?,are you saying If your not
a Chemtard Your a Sheep??.. 1rof1


You can read all about Corexit on wikipedia..

"Corexit is a product line of solvents primarily used as a dispersant for breaking up oil slicks"

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 10:43 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
By your definition of "chemtrails," you may as well be arguing that every car, bus, motorcycle, snowmobile and boat is a chemtrail generator.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

I have not given a definitionof a chemtrail; however, I can . . .

Chemtrail: The term chemtrail is derived from "chemical trail" in the similar fashion that contrail is an abbreviation for condensation trail. It does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting or aerial firefighting;
(however, cloud seeding in some advanced forms may well be a type of Chemtrail).
The term specifically refers to aerial trails allegedly caused by the systematic high-altitude release of chemical substances not found in ordinary contrails, resulting in the appearance of supposedly uncharacteristic
(not always but sometimes) sky tracks.
(My working definition recognizes chemtrails may not be visible on a persistent basis just as contrails may not be visible; however, the substances in Chemtrails are not those the public is aware of and has not given consent for their use).
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

The red above are my changes to Wikipedia's definition.

Last Edited by George B on 06/14/2010 10:52 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 10:48 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
By your definition of "chemtrails," you may as well be arguing that every car, bus, motorcycle, snowmobile and boat is a chemtrail generator.



And that being the case, I have no idea why you'd feel the need to debate it or try to convince someone that you're right.

What's news about a moped and a weed eater throwing off exhaust?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

No the requirement is the particulate must be released at altitude. However, you are correct in saying aerosols from the ground can sometimes find their way into the higher levels of the atmosphere and will effect: Contrails, Chemtrails, cloud formation and albedo effects of the clouds formed.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2010 10:56 PM
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Excellent questions. Seriously.


May I ask your opinion on two additional questions?

1. Is it possible that some new fuel additive could be much more capable of forming nuclei than previous additives? Thus the longer persistence of trails and the eventual fromation of cirrus clouds?

Note: It has been implied by NASA that the smaller the particulate nuclei the more albedo effect the curris clouds that form from them have . . . thus a cooling effect on the earth.

2. Is it possible that there has been a real increase in persistent trails and resulting cirrus clouds?

Note: My personal observations seem to show this. This is a hard one to pin down . . . because you never see the number of jeeps on the road until you buy one yourself . . . that is, can we really go back and count the trails and cirrus clouds in years past and compare them to recent frequency?
 Quoting: George B

quote:George B]


Excellent questions. Seriously.


May I ask your opinion on two additional questions?

1. Is it possible that some new fuel additive could be much more capable of forming nuclei than previous additives? Thus the longer persistence of trails and the eventual fromation of cirrus clouds?

Note: It has been implied by NASA that the smaller the particulate nuclei the more albedo effect the curris clouds that form from them have . . . thus a cooling effect on the earth.

2. Is it possible that there has been a real increase in persistent trails and resulting cirrus clouds?

Note: My personal observations seem to show this. This is a hard one to pin down . . . because you never see the number of jeeps on the road until you buy one yourself . . . that is, can we really go back and count the trails and cirrus clouds in years past and compare them to recent frequency?



Sure, I'm happy to tell you everything I know.

As to your first question - fuel doesn't cause condensation nuclei. Burning a pound of fuel causes a pound of water vapor. Once the water is created the question is, will it be visible or not? If the atmosphere cannot absorb the water, it will be visible. The vapor forms on condensation nuclei that already exists in the atmosphere (dust and shit). Cloud formation is basically the same exact thing via a slightly different process. With cloud formation, air is driven UP (up meaning the air gets cooler). Cool air can hold LESS water vapor than warm air can. As moist air is cooled, the air reaches its saturation point and can no longer hold any more water. Then, the water comes OUT of saturation and forms on condensation nuclei becoming visible as a cloud. If the air is below freezing, it will form as ice crystals.

No fuel additive that I know of can chance the amount of water the atmosphere can hold and that is the limiting factor.

Point #2... if you don't believe me, ask a meteorologist - call the channel 7 news weatherman... Cirrus clouds are the jet-stream blow off of enormous thunderstorms. A thunderstorm grows to the point where the top enters the jet stream and starts to blow downwind. It can blow hundreds of miles downwind of a thunderstorm so to the unaided eye there is no correlation between the two - but one creates the other.

If you look up and see cirrus clouds, look down wind (generally west) 500 miles or so. You'll likely find a cold front or something that created a line of thunderstorms.
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2010 10:56 PM
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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Excellent questions. Seriously.


May I ask your opinion on two additional questions?

1. Is it possible that some new fuel additive could be much more capable of forming nuclei than previous additives? Thus the longer persistence of trails and the eventual fromation of cirrus clouds?

Note: It has been implied by NASA that the smaller the particulate nuclei the more albedo effect the curris clouds that form from them have . . . thus a cooling effect on the earth.

2. Is it possible that there has been a real increase in persistent trails and resulting cirrus clouds?

Note: My personal observations seem to show this. This is a hard one to pin down . . . because you never see the number of jeeps on the road until you buy one yourself . . . that is, can we really go back and count the trails and cirrus clouds in years past and compare them to recent frequency?
 Quoting: George B

quote:George B]


Excellent questions. Seriously.


May I ask your opinion on two additional questions?

1. Is it possible that some new fuel additive could be much more capable of forming nuclei than previous additives? Thus the longer persistence of trails and the eventual fromation of cirrus clouds?

Note: It has been implied by NASA that the smaller the particulate nuclei the more albedo effect the curris clouds that form from them have . . . thus a cooling effect on the earth.

2. Is it possible that there has been a real increase in persistent trails and resulting cirrus clouds?

Note: My personal observations seem to show this. This is a hard one to pin down . . . because you never see the number of jeeps on the road until you buy one yourself . . . that is, can we really go back and count the trails and cirrus clouds in years past and compare them to recent frequency?



Sure, I'm happy to tell you everything I know.

As to your first question - fuel doesn't cause condensation nuclei. Burning a pound of fuel causes a pound of water vapor. Once the water is created the question is, will it be visible or not? If the atmosphere cannot absorb the water, it will be visible. The vapor forms on condensation nuclei that already exists in the atmosphere (dust and shit). Cloud formation is basically the same exact thing via a slightly different process. With cloud formation, air is driven UP (up meaning the air gets cooler). Cool air can hold LESS water vapor than warm air can. As moist air is cooled, the air reaches its saturation point and can no longer hold any more water. Then, the water comes OUT of saturation and forms on condensation nuclei becoming visible as a cloud. If the air is below freezing, it will form as ice crystals.

No fuel additive that I know of can chance the amount of water the atmosphere can hold and that is the limiting factor.

Point #2... if you don't believe me, ask a meteorologist - call the channel 7 news weatherman... Cirrus clouds are the jet-stream blow off of enormous thunderstorms. A thunderstorm grows to the point where the top enters the jet stream and starts to blow downwind. It can blow hundreds of miles downwind of a thunderstorm so to the unaided eye there is no correlation between the two - but one creates the other.

If you look up and see cirrus clouds, look down wind (generally west) 500 miles or so. You'll likely find a cold front or something that created a line of thunderstorms.
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 10:58 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
By your definition of "chemtrails," you may as well be arguing that every car, bus, motorcycle, snowmobile and boat is a chemtrail generator.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

And what is the definition you derive from my posts . . . I have said the issues are very complex . . . and the science is complex and the variation possible in the atmosphere is always changing. You want simple answers you need to go to a different Thread.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2010 11:07 PM
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By your definition of "chemtrails," you may as well be arguing that every car, bus, motorcycle, snowmobile and boat is a chemtrail generator.

And what is the definition you derive from my posts . . . I have said the issues are very complex . . . and the science is complex and the variation possible in the atmosphere is always changing. You want simple answers you need to go to a different Thread.
 Quoting: George B



There is nothing complex about it.

Chemtrails do not exist - other than what exist around every fucking weed-eater and lawn mower. There's nothing to debate.
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 11:09 PM

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Re: Chemtrail Poll . . . do you think chemtrails are real? See the Results NOW!
Excellent questions. Seriously.


May I ask your opinion on two additional questions?

1. Is it possible that some new fuel additive could be much more capable of forming nuclei than previous additives? Thus the longer persistence of trails and the eventual fromation of cirrus clouds?

Note: It has been implied by NASA that the smaller the particulate nuclei the more albedo effect the curris clouds that form from them have . . . thus a cooling effect on the earth.

2. Is it possible that there has been a real increase in persistent trails and resulting cirrus clouds?

Note: My personal observations seem to show this. This is a hard one to pin down . . . because you never see the number of jeeps on the road until you buy one yourself . . . that is, can we really go back and count the trails and cirrus clouds in years past and compare them to recent frequency?

quote:George B]


Excellent questions. Seriously.


May I ask your opinion on two additional questions?

1. Is it possible that some new fuel additive could be much more capable of forming nuclei than previous additives? Thus the longer persistence of trails and the eventual fromation of cirrus clouds?

Note: It has been implied by NASA that the smaller the particulate nuclei the more albedo effect the curris clouds that form from them have . . . thus a cooling effect on the earth.

2. Is it possible that there has been a real increase in persistent trails and resulting cirrus clouds?

Note: My personal observations seem to show this. This is a hard one to pin down . . . because you never see the number of jeeps on the road until you buy one yourself . . . that is, can we really go back and count the trails and cirrus clouds in years past and compare them to recent frequency?



Sure, I'm happy to tell you everything I know.

As to your first question - fuel doesn't cause condensation nuclei. Burning a pound of fuel causes a pound of water vapor. Once the water is created the question is, will it be visible or not? If the atmosphere cannot absorb the water, it will be visible. The vapor forms on condensation nuclei that already exists in the atmosphere (dust and shit). Cloud formation is basically the same exact thing via a slightly different process. With cloud formation, air is driven UP (up meaning the air gets cooler). Cool air can hold LESS water vapor than warm air can. As moist air is cooled, the air reaches its saturation point and can no longer hold any more water. Then, the water comes OUT of saturation and forms on condensation nuclei becoming visible as a cloud. If the air is below freezing, it will form as ice crystals.

No fuel additive that I know of can chance the amount of water the atmosphere can hold and that is the limiting factor.

Point #2... if you don't believe me, ask a meteorologist - call the channel 7 news weatherman... Cirrus clouds are the jet-stream blow off of enormous thunderstorms. A thunderstorm grows to the point where the top enters the jet stream and starts to blow downwind. It can blow hundreds of miles downwind of a thunderstorm so to the unaided eye there is no correlation between the two - but one creates the other.

If you look up and see cirrus clouds, look down wind (generally west) 500 miles or so. You'll likely find a cold front or something that created a line of thunderstorms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

I don't doubt your conventional answer; however, some of the research I have read indicate that contrails are thought to form persistent contrails which eventually form cirrus clouds.
CONTRAILS AND CIRRUS CLOUDS
Patrick Minnis
NASA Langley Research Center
Hampton VA, USA
[link to www.techtransfer.berkeley.edu]
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
George B (OP)

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06/14/2010 11:13 PM

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No fuel additive that I know of can chance the amount of water the atmosphere can hold and that is the limiting factor.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 999293

Thank you.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2010 11:13 PM
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I don't doubt your conventional answer; however, some of the research I have read indicate that contrails are thought to form persistent contrails which eventually form cirrus clouds.
CONTRAILS AND CIRRUS CLOUDS
Patrick Minnis
NASA Langley Research Center
Hampton VA, USA
[link to www.techtransfer.berkeley.edu]
 Quoting: George B



OK, just call your local news channel meteorologist and ask them what causes cirrus clouds.

Contrails may mix up with cirrus clouds - they're both up there at the same altitudes - but thunderstorms cause cirrus clouds.
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2010 11:16 PM
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I clicked your link but I can't download 46 pages. I am in the high mountains of Colorado and don't have that kind of available bandwidth.

Don't believe me, call your local meteorologist.
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Teller has powerful supporters for this view. In 1994, apparently in the context of lobbying by petroleum companies for “solutions” to global warming that would allow continued burning of fossil fuels, a PATENT was issued to the Hughes Aircraft Company for “Stratospheric Welsbach seeding for reduction of global warming”. The PATENT describes how tiny particles of aluminium oxide and other reflective particles could be added to the fuel of jet airliners and emitted from the jet exhaust. .....

I found that very interesting...a patent issued for seeding that includes tiny particles of aluminum oxide and other reflective particle to be added to the fuel of jet airliners and emitted from the jet exhaust.

See, under the pretext of "saving the world", they are destroying the natural Earth as those particles fall to the ground.
.