JABBING JUPITER - Testing the Titan

[link to spaceweather.com]

Wesley mark animation, enlarged... note the origin of the mark holds in place.

That's over 4 weeks of spliced together images...

"In Jupiter, we would possibly have a core of silicates and metals that do not do much for us but we have a surrounding belt of liquid/metallic hydrogen at 20,000 degrees Celsius, at a pressure of 3 million atm, and with a thickness of 20,000 km. In turns out the minimum pressure required to produce a fusion reaction in this way is 1 million atm, so it is evident we have 3 times the pressure needed, the pressure required to confine the hydrogen nuclei and overcome the electromagnetic repulsion.

In fact, at this pressure the density of matter is 3 x 10^25 atoms of hydrogen/cm3. (In a hot fusion experimental reactor a density of 1 x 10^25 only was necessary for success)."

From physicist(?) Carlos V. regarding Jupiter having sufficient pressure near its center to hold fusion.

Accordingly, all that is needed is the sufficient TEMPERATURE and Jupiter can have a sustained fusion reaction for millions of years.

And we have now shown how they can achieve the temperature using the stealthy LWRHU pellets....!

To keep spewing out material like that, for that long, an object would need to penetrate DEEP into Jupiter, which means the object would need to be relatively massive to survive the plunge AND retain enough mass to explode producing a cloud of such magnitude.

However, this is contradictory to the assessment that the object was small, because it "was not detected" prior to impact.

Regarding my statement about LANL - we know that it is well within our technical capability to simulate fusion reactions. The supercomputers at Los Alamos are there to simulate the operation of nuclear devices, precisely why we no longer have a need for nuclear testing (new designs). I am using LANL for an example, not trying to tie them in with this fwiw.

From what I have gathered in bits and pieces throughout my reading the Physicists can visualize the actual process of a fusion weapon during its detonation sequence. It is highly probable Jupiter could be modeled. I wouldn't even think it would be difficult for people of their caliber. In fact, it would be an exciting experiment IMHO.

Last Edited by Project_Deimos on 09/07/2010 09:15 AM

Yes, I'm disappointed that spaceweather (or anybody in the mainstream) did not follow up on this obvious clue....an "impact" does not do this unless of course it was extremely massive like you say, but even then you would have gotten SOME drift over 4 weeks, there was virtually no drift at all with WM1.

Yes, absolutely I'm sure they modeled this...the big variables were what exactly the pressures would be very deep into Jupiter, and the ratio of H to He, and at what point it goes metallic. Another variable was how the fuel pellets would react to their surroundings...

You'll like this:

[link to www.llnl.gov (secure)]

Livermore labs produced liquid metallic hydrogen, and their results point to this particular phase being present at much lower pressures and higher temps than originally thought. This was in 1991.

The graph shows that around 1.4Mbar hydrogen enters this state. I would think by the time a fuel capsule imploded, it would be well within a metallic (and easier fused) layer.

Last Edited by Project_Deimos on 09/07/2010 01:23 PM

Repeating BS ad nauseam doesn't make it any less BS.

You don't get to use your own fantasy version of the Laws of Physics.
And neither does 'Carlos V.'.

The point was that Jupiter doesn't posses the required mass to self ignite, but the pressures and densities near the core could sustain a fusion reaction, albeit brief.

Furthermore, the Livermore essay I just posted points to a MUCH greater percentage of Jupiter being the (relatively easy to ignite) metallic hydrogen. You do understand how thermonuclear weapons work don't you? And why we squeeze the secondary? And why Teller only needed a "spark"?

Last Edited by Project_Deimos on 09/07/2010 01:37 PM

Thanks for the link! Nice graphic at the end showing Jupiter at 20,000 C and 40 million bars near the center. As has been pointed out already, the pressure is plenty high for holding fusion if you can get the heat to go up a couple of magnitudes, and the material is ideal. When people regurgitate the "Jupiter is not massive enough..." they are simply repeating the assumumption that all three conditions cannot be met by Jupiter naturally, but artificially if the TEMPERATURE (the lacking ingredient) can be presented, then it's viable. In stellar terms Jupiter would burn out quick, but in our terms it would take a long time, a few million years.

As A. P. Boss has pointed out, even one Jupiter mass under the right magnetic conditions can be stellar.

[link to www.arksky.org]

spots and blotches of blood red on Jupiter...

Speculation below:

IF indeed something has been ignited deep below and the venting hole, SEB disappearance, UV increase in the SEB, and antipode discharges are the first indicators, we should expect the intense heat created from this ongoing reaction to convect to the surface eventually. The heat must appear eventually at the top because it would be seeking cooler areas and trying to escape the inferno below. It also should cause some general expansion of volume as it cascades to the top.

Regardless of how far the actual fusion reaction can operate (if it only needs 1 or 2 million bars it can extend far out from the center, not just the 3% radius proposed), the resultant HEAT from the reaction must become evident eventually for our eyes to see at Jupiter's surface in the form of convected heat, matter being heated up, not just from the radiative heat.

Just like the Sun's reaction extends at the most 30% of its radius from the center, the next layers above that, even though not actually fusing matter, are then convecting the heat upward. When the heated matter reaches the top it then dives back down having been cooled more than its surroundings.

This convection of heated matter to the top would logically be slower than the speed of the other indicators and therefore be forthcoming. The venting hole rose to the top so quickly because we are dealing with the most massive extreme of densities at the initial blowout. The initial blowout gas bubble being extreme in its low density, relative to the 40 million bars it was in, sought to equalize immediately by shooting up at any point of least resistance and quickly exiting, quick with respect to the size of Jupiter.

We should start seeing the features of Jupiter change into things we've never seen before as massive heat is applied to successively higher layers.

Check out the blood red blotches in the lower left image. One is a long smudge above and right of the GRS. One is in the NTB, and one in the NEB......

You can see one more in the upper right image in the NEB...

[link to bppx90.bp.ehu.es:8080]

9/6/10 UV by Christopher Go

I don't recall ever seeing such blood-red marks, not so red as this anyway...but likely there have been.

Yes, the mainstream doesn't follow up on anything that might stray the masses from the spoon-fed theory. Like reacently, not a word about the two flashes being nearly opposite each other on Jupiter, only a hair off, that is something that should at least be offered as extra information to ponder, but not a word, and I have personally emailed several entities to at least present the information without comment if they like it that way.

This is kinda basic info but has some good illustrations regarding star fusion processes:

[link to abyss.uoregon.edu]

Interestingly, if we had a *nice* neutrino detector that didn't take up a football stadium we would be able to determine if a fusion reaction is indeed underway, from increased neutrino production.

Re: convection bubble - if I am not mistaken, the "convection loop" in the sun takes several decades to complete. I believe this is the loop that "scoops" up old sunspots, drags them deep inside the sun, and then re-deposits them at a later date. It is entirely plausible that a reaction deep inside Jupiter would take many years to become visible, using the sun as an example. Oh, and look at how long it takes a photon to reach the surface.

Also, I had a thought regarding the flash event / antipode relationships when looking at the diagram. We already have an electric current established in Jupiter (duh) because we can detect a massive magnetic field. If we deplete a region of Jupiter's Hydrogen core of pure Hydrogen, replacing it with Helium (product of fusion), would we not upset the charge balance inside the core? Could the "flash" event really be a massive discharge due to an ancillary current being established inside the core?

Last Edited by Project_Deimos on 09/09/2010 07:59 AM

Fairly good site, but I believe they messed up at least once...they call "He3" Tritium, which is not correct. He3 is two protons one neutron and Tritium is one proton two neutrons...correct me if I'm wrong.

Also your point about convection and photons taking awhile to reach the surface is valid, but with Jupiter's first reaction it would go faster for two reasons, the distance to the top is less and the temperature differential to start with is massive (new fusion core to old temp surface) so the first "convections" are going to move much faster.

For the first thousands of years it would keep getting hotter until it reach equilibrium....

But the first 10 years you would see the biggest exponential jump as the initial heat races out to the cool areas at the surface.

Then again, usually when a new star forms you have an initial outburst of 10% matter which would change the whole process here, but that is with conventional forming. With artificial induction, the rules must be different because you don't have the natural heat to start with, it's a few magnitudes below what's normal all around except at the spark point of initiation, so the initial outburst, it would seem, would be much more violent because of the extra extremes of temp. present.

100,000,000 at the spark initially, but only 20,000 just outside of this.

As opposed to 30,000,000, and 15,000,000 very roughly.

???

Tritium is indeed H3 - my watch has Tritium vials on the face with the "H3" text and standard nuclear warning icon (marathon navigator if you're wondering)



Oh I don't doubt it would take a shorter amount of time - it was actually my point that if the sun only took a few decades to churn sunspots we would see activity much sooner on jupiter.

"Neutrino detectors can be aimed at astrophysics observations, many astrophysics events being believed to emit neutrinos.

Underwater neutrino telescopes :

DUMAND (1976-1995, cancelled)
Baïkal (1993-)
ANTARES (2006-)
Km3net (proposed)
NESTOR Project (under development since 1998)
Underice neutrino telescopes :

AMANDA (1996, merged with IceCube)
IceCube (2004-)
Miscellaneous :

GALLEX (1991-1997, ended)"

from wikipedia...

Fairly sure no-one is looking at Jupiter for neutrinos unless accidentally picking them up and wondering....but that would answer the question so it is said.

Looks like there are 5 possibly still operating....

[link to alpo-j.asahikawa-med.ac.jp]

The NEB showing slight signs of fading especially on the side closest to the equator. A lot of activity but some degradation also.

[link to alpo-j.asahikawa-med.ac.jp]

Subtle, but I would say it's southern borden (up) is breaking down.

A bit premature to assume of course...

spaceweather.com has a new article on the Jupiter flashes, but of course they don't mention the antipode information, so I sent a letter to the editor to inform him:


"Dr. Phillips:

I thought you might like to update your article with this information:

When measured in CM3, which is the true internal rotation of Jupiter, the latest
two flashes on Jupiter are at the following locations:
June 3, 2010: 159.4, -16.1
August 20, 2010: 337.2, 17

These two locations make nearly an antipode line through Jupiter, just a hair off. I think that is significant. In fact the odds of this particular antipode are about 1 in 25,000. The day separation is 78 days.

Thanks, ..."

"Astrophysical Journal Letters" published the latest article and the spaceweather link is to the NASA Science News website.