>>>HEALING FROM MIND CONTROL and RITUAL ABUSE~A Survivor Speaks~

Some excerpts from her book: "On December 17th 1999, I turned 52 years old. On that day I received three CD ROMS from the CIA in response to my F.O.I.A. request. Forty eight years after I was first experimented on, I found solid proof of my memories, proof that was in the government vaults, of nearly 18,000 pages of de-classified documents from the Bluebird/Artichoke and MKULTRA programs.... ....

EXCERPT FROM DECLASSIFIED DOCUMENT: "learning studies will be instituted in which the subject will be rewarded or PUNISHED for his overall performance, in various ways, ....by being told whether he was right by being told what the target was, by administering of ELECTROSHOCK {edit:presumably for being wrong} ....in other cases drugs and psychological tricks will be used to MODIFY HIS ATTITUDES..... The experimenter will be particularly interested in creating dissociative states, from the abaissement de niveau mental, to multiple personalities...attempts will be made to induce a number of states of this kind, using hypnosis...{and ELECTROSHOCK}" end quote. ......THIS CHILD WAS FOUR YEARS OLD and they were "EXPERIMENTING" on her in this way....DEMENTED PSYCHOS ....

~ In other words people, the "Experimenter" would TORTURE the child to CREATE the Dissociative state...which is a climate conducive to creating ALTERS...also known as MULTIPLE Personalities, distinct and seperate, each one then able to be PROGRAMMED with specific tasks and abilities, that the REST of the personalities know nothing of....and all this existing within the SAME BODY..... Are you getting the picture here...? This is how they CREATED the "MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE" <<<<< PAID FOR WITH AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS BTW

Interesting that I just watched the Manchurian Candidate (new version) for the first time tonight. Sent chills up my spine...

Pinky, this whole agenda is far more pervasive than most realize.... I´ve been studying it for years and just when I think I´ve seen it all,,,another piece emerges...there are layers within layers within layers.... But the begininning of Freedom is Awareness, and at least I´m not afraid to embrace that....!

IN HER OWN WORDS-----> [link to members.aol.com]

You sure not about to crack? I count a half dozen roses.

Ah 11543, you were 920 last night...you lurker you!

BD

take a look at whitley strieber´s forum

there was a woman poster on their from SFO, an MK expert and an insider, she´s the real deal

her handle is

one smart rat

i spent about 3 days recenetly reading her material

i´ll see if i can post some here a bit later, i have to go out :O)

THE GREENBAUM SPEECH
Herein is the lecture by D.C.Hammond, originally entitled "Hypnosis in MPD: Ritual Abuse," but now usually known as the "Greenbaum Speech," delivered at the Fourth Annual Eastern Regional Conference on Abuse and Multiple Personality, Thursday June 25, 1992, at the Radisson Plaza Hotel, Mark Center, Alexandria, Virginia. Sponsored by the Center for Abuse Recovery & Empowerment, The Psychiatric Institute of Washington, D.C. Both a tape and a transcript were at one time available from Audio Transcripts of Alexandria, Virginia (800-338-2111). Tapes and transcripts of other sessions from the conference are still being sold but -- understandably -- not this one. The transcript below was made from a privately made tape of the original lecture.
The single most remarkable thing about this speech is how little one has heard of it in the years since its original delivery. It is recommended that one reads far enough at least until one finds why it´s called "the Greenbaum speech."
In the introduction the following background information is given for D. Corydon Hammond:

B.S. M.S. Ph.D (Counseling Psychology) from the University of Utah
Diplomate in Clinical Hypnosis, the American Board of Psychological Hypnosis
Diplomate in Sex Therapy, the American Board of Sexology
Clinical Supervisor and Board Examiner, American Board of Sexology
Diplomate in Marital and Sex Therapy, American Board of Family Psychology
Licensed Psychologist, Licensed Marital Therapist, Licensed Family Therapist, State of Utah
Research Associate Professor of Physical Medicine an Rehabilitation, Utah School of Medicine
Director and Founder of the Sex and Marital Therapy Clinic, University of Utah.
Adjunct Associate Professor of Educational Psychology, University of Utah
Abstract Editor, The American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis
Advising Editor and Founding Member, Editorial Board, The Ericsonian Monograph
Referee, The Journal of Abnormal Psychology
1989 Presidential Award of Merit, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis
1990 Urban Sector Award, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis
Current [now Past] President, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis

THE GREENBAUM SPEECH of D.C.HAMMOND
We´ve got a lot to cover today and let me give you a rough approximate outline of the the things that I´d like us to get into. First, let me ask how many of you have had at least one course or workshop on hypnosis? Can I see the hands? Wonderful. That makes our job easier. Okay.

I want to start off by talking a little about trance-training and the use of hypnotic phenomena with an MPD dissociative-disorder population, to talk some about unconscious exploration, methods of doing that, the use of imagery and symbolic imagery techniques for managing physical symptoms, input overload, things like that.

Before the day´s out, I want to spend some time talking about something I think has been completely neglected in the field of dissociative disorder, and that´s talking about methods of profound calming for automatic hyper-arousal that´s been conditioned in these patients. We´re going to spend a considerable length of time talking about age-regression and abreaction in working through a trauma. I´ll show you with a non-MPD patient -- some of that kind of work -- and then extrapolate from what I find so similar and different with MPD cases.

Part of that, I would add, by the way, is that I´ve been very sensitive through the years about taping MPD cases or ritual-abuse cases, part of it being that some of that feels a little like using patients and I think that this population has been used enough. That´s part of the reason, by choice, that I don´t generally videotape my work.

I also want to talk a bunch about hypnotic relapse- prevention strategies and post-integration therapy today. Finally, I hope to find somewhere in our time-frame to spend on hour or so talking specifically about ritual abuse and about mind-control programming and brainwashing -- how it´s done, how to get on the inside with that -- which is a topic that in the past I haven´t been willing to speak about publicly, have done that in small groups and in consultations, but recently decided that it was high time that somebody started doing it. So we´re going to talk about specifics today. [Applause]

In Chicago at the first international congress where ritual abuse was talked about I can remember thinking, "How strange and interesting." I can recall many people listening to an example given that somebody thought was so idiosyncratic and rare, and all the people coming up after saying, "Gee, you´re treating one, too? You´re in Seattle"...Well, I´m in Toronto...Well, I´m in Florida...Well, I´m in Cincinnati." I didn´t know what to think at that point. It wasn´t too long after that I found my first ritual-abuse patient in somebody I was already treating and we hadn´t gotten that deep yet. Things in that case made me very curious about the use of mind-control techniques and hypnosis and other brainwashing techniques.

So I started studying brainwashing and some of the literature in that area and became acquainted with, in fact, one of the people who´d written one of the better books in that area. Then I decided to do a survey, and from the ISSMP & D [International Society for the Study of Multiple Personality and Dissociation] folks I picked out about a dozen and a half therapists that I though were seeing more of that than probably anyone else around and I started surveying them.

The interview protocol, that I had. got the same reaction almost without exception. Those therapists said, "You´re asking questions I don´t know the answers to. You´re asking more specific questions than I´ve ever asked my patients." Many of those same therapists said, "Let me ask those questions and I´ll get back to you with the answer." Many of them not only got back with answers, but said, "You´ve got to talk to this patient or these two patients." I ended up doing hundred of dollars worth of telephone interviewing. What I came out of that was a grasp of a variety of brainwashing methods being used all over the country. I started to hear some similarities. Whereas I hadn´t known, to begin with, how widespread things were, I was now getting a feeling that there were a lot of people reporting some similar things and that there must be some degree of communication here.

Then approximately two and a half years ago I had some material drop in my lap. My source was saying a lot of things that I knew were accurate about some of the brainwashing, but it was telling me new material I had no idea about.

At this point I took and decided to check it out in three ritual-abuse patients I was seeing at the time. Two of the three had what they were describing, in careful inquiry without leading or contaminating. The fascinating thing was that as I did a telephone-consult with a therapist that I´d been consulting for quite a number of months on an MPD case in another state, I told her to inquire about certain things. She said, "Well, what are those things?" I said, "I´m not going to tell you, because I don´t want there to be any possibility of contamination. Just come back to me and tell me what the patient says." She called me back two hours later, said, "I just had a double session with this patient and there was a part of him that said, ´Oh, we´re so excited. If you know about this stuff, you know how the Cult Programmers get on the inside and our therapy is going to go so much faster.´"

Many other patients since have had a reaction of wanting to pee their pants out of anxiety and fear rather than thinking it was wonderful thing. But the interesting thing was that she then asked, "What are these things?" They were word perfect -- same answers my source had given me. I´ve since repeated that in many parts of the country.

I´ve consulted in eleven states and one foreign country, in some cases over the telephone, in some cases in person, in some cases giving the therapist information ahead of time and saying, "Be very careful how you phrase this. Phrase it in these ways so you don´t contaminate."

In other cases not even giving the therapist information ahead of time so they couldn´t. When you start to find the same highly esoteric information in different states and different countries, from Florida to California, you start to get an idea that there´s something going on that is very large, very well coordinated, with a great deal of communication and sytematicness to what´s happening. So I have gone from someone kind of neutral and not knowing what to think about it all to someone who clearly believes ritual abuse is real and that the people who say it isn´t are either naive like people who didn´t want to believe the Holocaust or -- they´re dirty. [Applause]

Now for a long time I would tell a select group of therapists that I knew and trusted, information and say, "Spread it out. Don´t spread my name. Don´t say where it came from. But here´s some information. Share it with other therapists if you find it´s on target, and I´d appreciate your feedback."

People would question -- in talks -- and say, you know, they were hungry for information. Myself, as well as a few others that I´ve shared it with, were hedging out of concern and out of personal threats and out of death threats. I finally decided to hell with them. If they´re going to kill me, they´re going to kill me. It´s time to share more information with therapists. Part of that comes because we proceeded so cautiously and slowly, checking things in many different locations and find the same thing.

So I´m going to give you the way in with ritual-abuse programming. I certainly can´t tell you everything that you want to know in forty-five or fifty minutes, but I´m going to give you the essentials to get inside and start working at a new level.

I don´t know what proportion, honestly, of patients have this. I would guess that maybe somewhere around at least fifty percent, maybe as high as three-quarters, I would guess maybe two-thirds of your ritual-abuse patients may have this.

What do I think the distinguishing characteristic is? If they were raised from birth in a mainstream cult or if they were an non-bloodline person, meaning neither parent was in the Cult, but Cult people had a lot of access to them in early childhood, they may also have it.

I have seen more than one ritual-abuse patient who clearly had all the kind of ritual things you hear about. They seemed very genuine. They talked about all the typical things that you hear in this population, but had none of this programming with prolonged extensive checking. So I believe in one case I was personally treating that she was a kind of schizmatic break-off that had kind of gone off and done their own thing and were no longer hooked into a mainstream group. [Pause]

Here´s where it appears to have come from. At the end of World War II, before it even ended, Allen Dulles and people from our Intelligence Community were already in Switzerland making contact to get out Nazi scientists. As World War II ends, they not only get out rocket scientists, but they also get out some Nazi doctors who have been doing mind-control research in the camps.

They brought them to the United States. Along with them was a young boy, a teenager, who had been raised in a Hasidic Jewish tradition and a background of Cabalistic mysticism that probably appealed to people in the Cult because at least by the turn of the century Aleister Crowley had been introducing Cabalism into Satanic stuff, if not earlier. I suspect it may have formed some bond between them.

But he saved his skin by collaborating and being an assistant to them in the death-camp experiments. They brought him with them. They started doing mind-control research for Military Intelligence in military hospitals in the United States. The people that came, the Nazi doctors, were Satanists. Subsequently, the boy changed his name, Americanized it some, obtained an M.D. degree, became a physician and continued this work that appears to be at the center of Cult Programming today. His name is known to patients throughout the country. [Pause]

What they basically do is they will get a child and they will start this, in basic forms, it appears, by about two and a half after the child´s already been made dissociative. They´ll make him dissociative not only through abuse, like sexual abuse, but also things like putting a mousetrap on their fingers and teaching the parents, "You do not go in until the child stops crying. Only then do you go in and remove it."

They start in rudimentary forms at about two and a half and kick into high gear, it appears, around six or six and a half, continue through adolescence with periodic reinforcements in adulthood.

Basically in the programming the child will be put typically on a gurney. They will have an IV in one hand or arm. They´ll be strapped down, typically naked. There´ll be wires attached to their head to monitor electroencephalograph patterns. They will see a pulsing light, most often described as red, occasionally white or blue. They´ll be given, most commonly I believe, Demerol. Sometimes it´ll be other drugs as well depending on the kind of programming. They have it, I think, down to a science where they´ve learned you give so much every twenty-five minutes until the programming is done.

They then will describe a pain on one ear, their right ear generally, where it appears a needle has been placed, and they will hear weird, disorienting sounds in that ear while they see photic stimulation to drive the brain into a brainwave pattern with a pulsing light at a certain frequency not unlike the goggles that are now available through Sharper Image and some of those kinds of stores.

Then, after a suitable period when they´re in a certain brainwave state, they will begin programming, programming oriented to self-destruction and debasement of the person. In a patient at this point in time about eight years old who has gone through a great deal early programming took place on a military installation. That´s not uncommon.

I´ve treated and been involved with cases who are part of this original mind-control project as well as having their programming on military reservations in many cases. We find a lot of connections with the CIA. This patient now was in a Cult school, a private Cult school where several of these sessions occurred a week. She would go into a room, get all hooked up. They would do all of these sorts of things. When she was in the proper altered state, now they were no longer having to monitor it with electroencephalographs, she also had already had placed on her electrodes, one in the vagina, for example, four on the head. Sometimes they´ll be on other parts of the body.

They will then begin and they would say to her, "You are angry with someone in the group." She´d say, "No, I´m not" and they´d violently shock her. They would say the same thing until she complied and didn´t make any negative response. Then they would continue. "And because you are angry with someone in the group," or "When you are angry with someone in the group, you will hurt yourself. Do you understand?" She said, "No" and they shocked her. They repeated again, "Do you understand?" "Well, yes, but I don´t want to." Shock her again until they get compliance. Then they keep adding to it. "And you will hurt yourself by cutting yourself. Do you understand?" Maybe she´d say yes, but they might say, "We don´t believe you" and shock her anyway. "Go back and go over it again." They would continue in this sort of fashion.

She said typically it seemed as though they´d go about thirty minutes, take a break for a smoke or something, come back. They may review what they´d done and stopped or they might review what they´d done and go on to new material. She said the sessions might go half an hour, they might go three hours. She estimated three times a week.

Programming under the influence of drugs in a certain brainwave state and with these noises in one ear and them speaking in the other ear, usually the left ear, associated with right hemisphere non-dominant brain functioning, and with them talking, therefore, and requiring intense concentration, intense focusing. Because often they´ll have to memorize and say certain things back, word-perfect, to avoid punishment, shock, and other kinds of things that are occurring. This is basically how a lot of programming goes on.

Some of it´ll also use other typical brainwashing kinds of techniques. There will be very standardized types of hypnotic things done at times. There´ll be sensory deprivation which we know increases suggestibility in anyone. Total sensory deprivation, suggestibility has significantly increased, from the research. It´s not uncommon for them to use a great deal of that, including formal sensory-deprivation chambers before they do certain of these things. [Pause]

Now let me give you, because we don´t have a lot of time, as much practical information as I can. The way that I would inquire as to whether or not some of this might be there would be with ideomotor finger-signals.

After you´ve set them up I would say, "I want the central inner core of you to take control of the finger-signals." Don´t ask the unconscious mind. The case where you´re inquiring about ritual abuse, that´s for the central inner core. The core is a Cult-created part. "And I want that central inner core of you to take control of this hand of these finger-signals and what it has for the yes-finger to float up.

I want to ask the inner core of you is there any part of you, any part of Mary," that´s the host´s name, "who knows anything about Alpha, Beta, Delta, or Theta." If you get a Yes, it should raise a red flag that you might have someone with formal intensive brainwashing and programming in place. I would then ask and say, "I want a part inside who knows something about Alpha, Beta, Delta, and Theta to come up to a level where you can speak to me and when you´re here say, ´I´m here.´" I would not ask if a part was willing to. No one´s going to particularly want to talk about this. I would just say, "I want some part who can tell me about this to come out."

Without leading them ask them what these things are. I´ve had consults where I´ve come in. Sometimes I´ve gotten a Yes to that, but as I´ve done exploration it appeared to be some kind of compliance response or somebody wanting, in two or three cases, to appear maybe that they were ritual abuse and maybe they were in some way, but with careful inquiry and looking it was obvious that they did not have what we were looking for.

Let me tell you what these are. Let´s suppose that this whole front row here are multiples and that she has an alter named Helen and she has one named Mary, she has one named Gertrude, she has one named Elizabeth, and she has one named Monica. Every one of those alters may have put on it a program, perhaps designated alpha-zero-zero-nine a Cult person could say, "Alpha-zero-zero-nine" or make some kind of hand gesture to indicate this and get the same part out in any one of them even though they had different names that they may be known by to you.

Alphas appear to represent general programming, the first kind of things put in. Betas appear to be sexual programs. For example, how to perform oral sex in a certain way, how to perform sex in rituals, having to do with producing child pornography, directing child pornography, prostitution. Deltas are killers trained in how to kill in ceremonies. There´ll also be some self-harm stuff mixed in with that, assassination and killing. Thetas are called psychic killers. You know, I had never in my life heard those two terms paired together. I´d never heard the words "psychic killers" put together, but when you have people in different states, including therapists inquiring and asking, "What is Theta," and patients say to them, "Psychic killers," it tends to make one a believer that certain things are very systematic and very widespread. This comes from their belief in psychic sorts of abilities and powers, including their ability to psychically communicate with "mother´" including their ability to psychically cause somebody to develop a brain aneurysm and die. It also is a more future-oriented kind of programming.

Then there´s Omega. I usually don´t include that word when I say my first question about this or any part inside that knows about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta because Omega will shake them even more. Omega has to do with self-destruct programming. Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. This can include self-mutilation as well as killing-themselves programming.

Gamma appears to be system-protection and deception programming which will provide misinformation to you, try to misdirect you, tell you half-truths, protect different things inside. There can also be other Greek letters. I´d recommend that you go and get your entire Greek alphabet and if you have verified that some of this stuff is present and they have given you some of the right answers about what some of this material is, and I can´t underline enough: DO NOT LEAD THEM. Do not say, "Is this killers?" Get the answer from them, please. When you´ve done this and it appears to be present, I would take your entire Greek alphabet and, with ideomotor signals, go through the alphabet and say, "Is there any programming inside associated with epsilon, omicron," and go on through. There may be some sytematicness to some of the other letter, but I´m not aware of it.

I´ve found, for example, in one case that Zeta had to do with the production of snuff films that this person was involved with. With another person, Omicron had to do with their linkage and associations with drug smuggling and with the Mafia and with big business and government leaders. So there´s going to be some individualism, I think, in some of those. Some of those are come-home programs, "come back to the Cult", "return to the Cult" program.

Here´s the flaw in the system. They have built in shut-down and erasure codes so if they got into trouble they could shut something down and they could also erase something. These codes will sometimes be idiosyncratic phrases, or ditties. Sometimes they will be numbers maybe followed by a word. There´s some real individuality to that. At first I had hoped if we can get some of these maybe they´ll work with different people. No such luck. It´s very unlikely unless they were programmed at about the same point in time as part of the same little group. Stuff that I´ve seen suggests that they carry laptop computers, the programmers, which still include everything that they did twenty, thirty years ago in them in terms of the names of alters, the programs, the codes, and so on.

Now what you can do is get erasure codes, and I always ask, "If I say this code, what will happen?´ Doublecheck. "Is there any part inside who has different information?" Watch your ideomotor signals and what I´ve found is you can erase programs by giving the appropriate codes, but then you must abreact the feelings.

So if you erase Omega, which is often where I´ve started because it´s the most high risk. Afterwards I will get all the Omega, what were formerly Omega alters, together so that we will abreact and give back to the host the memories associated with all the programming that was done with Omega and anything any Omega part ever had to do in a fractionated abreaction.

They use the metaphor -- and it is their metaphor -- of robots. and it is like a robot shell comes down over the child alter to make them act in robotic fashion. Once in a while internally you´ll confront robots.

What I found from earlier work, and so I speed the process up now because I confirmed it enough times, is that you can say to the core, "Core, I want you to look -- there´s this robot blocking the way in some way, blocking the progress. Go around and look at the back of the head and tell me what you notice on the back of the head or the neck." I just ask it very non-leading like that and what´s commonly said to me is that there were wires or a switch. So I´ll tell them, "Hold the wires or flip the switch and it will immobilize the robot and give me a yes-signal when you´ve done it." Pretty soon you get a yes-signal. "Great. Now that the robot is immobilized, I want you to look inside the robot and tell me what you see." It´s generally one or several children. I have them remove the children. I do a little hypnotic magic and ask the core to use a laser and vaporize the robot so nothing is left. They´re usually quite amazed that this works, as have been a number of therapists. [Pause]

Now there are many different layers of this stuff is the problem. Let me come over to the overhead and give some ideas about them. What we have up here are innumerable alters. I´ll tell you one of the fascinating things I´ve seen. I remember a little over a year ago coming in to see some cases, some of the tough cases at a dissociative-disorders unit of a couple of the finest of the MPD therapists in this country, who are always part of all the international meetings, have lectured internationally. We worked and I look at some of their patients. They were amazed at certain things because they had not been aware of this before. As we worked with some of the patients and confirmed it, I remember one woman who´d been inpatient for three years, still was inpatient. Another who had one intensive year of inpatient work with all the finest MPD therapy you can imagine -- abreactions, integrations, facilitating cooperation, art therapy, on and on and on, journaling, intensively for one inpatient year followed by an intensive year of outpatient therapy two, three hours a week. In both patients we found out that all of this great work had done nothing but deal with the alters up here and had not touched the mind-control programming.

In fact it was not only intact, but we found that the one who was outpatient was having her therapy monitored every session by her mother, out-of-state, over the telephone, and that she still had intact suggestions that had been give to her at a certain future time to kill her therapist. Now one of the things that I would very carefully check is, I would suggest that you ask the core, not just the unconscious mind, ask the core, "Is there any part inside that continues to have contact with people associated with the Cult? Is there any part inside who goes to Cult rituals or meetings? Is there a recording device inside of Mary," if that´s the host´s name, "a recording device inside so that someone can find out the things that are said in sessions?" This doesn´t mean they´re monitored. Many of them just simply have it. "Is there someone who debriefs some part inside for what happens in our therapy sessions?" I have the very uncomfortable feeling from some past experience that when you look at this you will find the large proportion of ritual-abuse victims in this country are having their ongoing therapy monitored.

I remember a woman who came in about twenty-four years old, claimed her father was a Satanist. Her parents divorced when she was six. After that it would only when her father had visitation and he would take her to rituals sometimes up until age fifteen. She said, "I haven´t gone to anything since I was fifteen." Her therapist believed this at face value. We sat in my office. We did a two-hour inquiry using hypnosis. We found the programming present. In addition to that we found that every therapy session was debriefed and in fact they had told her to get sick and not come to the appointment with me. Another one had been told that I was Cult and that if she came I would know that she´d been told not to come and I would punish her. If anything meaningful comes out in a patient who´s being monitored like that -- from what I´ve learned thus far, they´re tortured with electric shocks -- my belief is if they´re in that situation you can´t do meaningful therapy other than being supportive and caring and letting them know you care a lot and you´ll be there to support them.

But I wouldn´t try to work with any kind of deep material or deprogramming with them because I think it can do nothing but get them tortured and hurt unless they can get into a safe, secure inpatient unit for an extended period of time to do some of the work required. I have a feeling that when you make inquiries you´re going to find that probably greater than fifty percent of these patients, if they´re bloodline, meaning mother or dad or both involved, will be monitored on some ongoing basis. [Pause]

Now when you come below the alters, you then have Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta, so and so forth, the Greek-letter programming and they will then have backup programs. There will typically be an erasure code for the backups. There may be one code that combines all the backups into one and then an erasure code for them, simply one code that erases all the backups. So I will get the code for, let´s say, Omega and for all the Omega backups at the same time. After I´ve asked "What will happen if I give this," I will give the code and then I will say, "What are you experiencing?" They often describe computer whirring, things erasing, explosions inside, all sorts of interesting things. I´ve had some therapists come back and say, "My Lord, I had never said anything about robots she said something about robots vaporizing." I remember one therapist who´d been with me in several hypnosis workshops and consulted with me about a crisis MPD situation. I told her to inquire about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta. She did. She got back to me saying, "Yeah, I got an indication it´s there. What is it?" I said, "I´m not going to tell you. Go back and inquire about some of this." We set an appointment for a week or so hence. She got back with me and said, "I asked what Theta was and she said, ´psychic killers.´ I asked her what Delta was and she said ´killers.´" Okay. So I told her about some of this stuff for a two-hour consult. She called back and she said, "This seemed too fantastic. I heard this and I thought, ´Has Cory been working too hard?´" she said, I´m embarrassed to admit it, but she said, "I held you in high professional regard, but this just sounded so off in the twilight zone that I really thought, ´Is he having a nervous breakdown or something?´" She said, "But I respected you enough to ask about this." She said, "I asked another MPD patient and she didn´t have any of this." So in this patient she started describing things and how she worked, for example, with an erasure and she was describing things like robots vaporizing and kinds of things. She said, "I hadn´t told her about any of these things." Well, here´s the problem. There are different layers and I think some of them are designed to keep us going in circles forever. They figured we probably, in most cases, wouldn´t get below the alters which they purposefully created.

The way you create Manchurian Candidates is you divide the mind. It´s part of what the Intelligence Community wanted to look at. If you´re going to get an assassin, you´re going to get somebody to go do something, you divide the mind. It fascinates me about cases like the assassination of Robert Kennedy, where Bernard Diamond, on examining Sirhan Sirhan found that he had total amnesia of the killing of Robert Kennedy, but under hypnosis could remember it. But despite suggestions he would be able to consciously remember, could not remember a thing after was out of hypnosis. I´d love to examine Sirhan Sirhan.

appears that below this we´ve got some other layers. One is called "Green Programming" it appears. Isn´t it interesting that the doctor´s name is Dr. Green? One of the questions in a way that does not contaminate is after I´ve identified some of this stuff is there and they´ve given me a few right answers about what some of it is, "If there were a doctor associated with this programming and his name were a color, you know, like Dr. Chartreuse or something, if his name were a color, what color would the color be?" Now once in a while I´ve had some other colors mentioned in about three or four patients that I felt were trying to dissimulate in some way and I don´t really believe had this. In one case I got another color and I found out later it was a doctor whose name was a color who was being trained by Dr. Green almost thirty years ago and he supervised part of the programming of this woman under this doctor. I remember one woman couldn´t come up with anything. No alter would speak up with anything. I said, "Okay," and we went on to some other material. About two minutes later she said, "Green. Do you mean Dr. Green?" We found this all over. There appears to be some Green Programming below that and I suspect that you get down to fewer and more central programs the deeper you go.

Well, all Green Programming is Ultra-Green and the Green Tree. Cabalistic mysticism is mixed all into this. If you´re going to work with this you need to pick up a couple of books on the Cabala. One is by a man named Dion Fortune called "Qabala" with a "q," Dion Fortune. Another is by Ann Williams-Heller and it´s called "The Kabbalah." I knew nothing about the Cabala. It was interesting. A patient had sat in my waiting area, got there considerably early and drew a detailed multicolored Cabalistic Tree over two years ago. It took me two months to figure out what it was. Finally, showing it to somebody else who said, "You know? That looks an awful lot like the Cabala Tree" and that rang a bell with some esoteric in an old book and I dug it out. That was the background of Dr. Green.

Now the interesting thing about the Green Tree is his original name was Greenbaum. What does "greenbaum" mean in German? Green Tree, Ultra-Tree and the Green Tree. I´ve also had patients who didn´t appear to know that his original name was Greenbaum, volunteered that there were parts inside named Mr. Greenbaum. Now let me give you some information about parts inside that may be helpful to you if you´re going to inquire about these things, because my experience is one part will give you some information and either run dry or get defensive or scared and stop. and so you punt and you make an end run and you come around the other direction, you find another part.

I´ll tell you several parts to ask for and ask if there´s a part by this name. And, by the way, when I´m screening patients and fiddling around with this, I throw in a bunch of spurious ones and ask, "Is there a part inside by this name and by that name" as a check on whether or not it appears genuine. For example. "In addition to the core," I ask, "is there a part inside named Wisdom?" Wisdom is a part of the Cabalistic Tree. Wisdom, I´ve often found, will be helpful and give you a lot of information. "Is there a part inside named Diana?" I mean I may throw in all sorts of things. "Is there a part inside named Zelda?" I´ve never encountered one yet! Just to see what kind of answers we get. I try to do this carefully. Diana is a part that, in the Cabalistic system, is associated with a part called the Foundation. You will be fascinated to know that.

Remember the Process Church? Roman Polanski´s wife, Sharon Tate, was killed by the Manson Family who were associated with the Process Church? A lot of prominent people in Hollywood were associated and then they went underground, the books say, in about seventy-eight and vanished? Well, they´re alive and well in southern Utah. We have a thick file in the Utah Department of Public Safety documenting that they moved to southern Utah, north of Monument Valley, bought a movie ranch in the desert, renovated it, expanded it, built a bunch of buildings there, carefully monitored so that very few people go out of there and no one can get in and changed their name. A key word in their name is "Foundation." The Foundation. There are some other words. The Foundation is part of the Tree. So you can ask, "Is there something inside known as The Foundation?" I might ask other things to throw people off. "Is there something known as the Sub- Basement?" Well, maybe they´ll conceive of something. Or "Is there something known as the Walls?" There are a variety of questions you can come up with, to sort of screen some things.

I´ve also found that there will often be a part called "Black Master," a part called "Master Programmer," and that there will be computer operators inside. How many of you have come into computer things in patients? There will typically be computer operators: Computer Operator Black, Computer Operator Green, Computer Operator Purple. Sometimes they´ll have numbers instead, sometimes they´ll be called Systems Information Directors. You can find out the head one of those. There´ll be a source of some information for you. I will ask inside, "Is there a part inside named Dr. Green?" You´ll find that there are, if they have this kind of programming, in my experience. Usually with a little work and reframing, you can turn them and help them to realize that they were really a child-part who´s playing a role and they had no choice then, but they do now. You know, they played their role very, very well, but they don´t have to continue to play it with you because they´re safe here and in fact, "If the Cult simply found out that you talked to me, that they you had shared information with me, you tell me what would they do to you?"

Emphasize that the only way out is through me and that they need to cooperate and share information and help me and that I´ll help them. So all these parts can give you various information. Now they have tried to protect this very carefully. Let me give you an example with Ultra-Green.

I discovered this -- by the way I used to think this programming was only in bloodline people. I´ve discovered it in non-bloodline people, but it´s a bit different. They don´t want it to be just the same. I don´t think you´ll find deep things like Ultra-Green and probably not even Green Programming with non-bloodline people. But let me tell you something that I discovered first in a non-bloodline and then in a bloodline. We were going along and a patient was close to getting well, approaching final integration in a non-bloodline and she suddenly started hallucinating and her fingers were becoming hammers and other things like that. So I used an affect-bridge and we went back and we found that what happened was that they gave suggestions, that if she ever got well to a certain point she would go crazy.

The way they did this was they strapped her down and they gave her LSD when she was eight years old. When she began hallucinating they inquired about the nature of the hallucinations so they could utilize them in good Ericsonian fashion and build on them and then combine the drug-effect with powerful suggestions. "If you ever get to this point you will go crazy. If you ever get fully integrated and get well you will go crazy like this and will be locked up in an institution for the rest of your life. They gave those suggestions vigorously and repetitively.

Finally they introduced other suggestions that, "Rather than have this happen, it would be easier to just kill yourself." In a bloodline patient then, as I began inquiring about deep material, the patient started to experience similar symptoms. We went back and we found the identical things were done to her.

This was called the "Green Bomb." B-O-M-B. Lots of interesting internal consistencies like that play on words with Dr. Greenbaum, his original name.

Now in this case it was done to her at age nine for the first time and then only hers was different. Hers was a suggestion for amnesia. "If you ever remember anything about Ultra-Green and the Green Tree you will go crazy. You will become a vegetable and be locked up forever." Then finally the suggestions added, "And it´ll be easier to just kill yourself than have that happen to you, if you ever remember it." At age twelve then, three years later, they used what sounds like an Amytol interview to try to breach the amnesia and find out if they could. They couldn´t. So then they strapped her down again, took and gave her something to kind of paralyze her body, gave her LSD, an even bigger dose and reinforced all the suggestions. Did a similar thing at the age of sixteen. So these are some of the kind of booby traps you run into.

There are a number of cases where they combined powerful drug effects like this with suggestions to keep us from discovering some of this deeper level stuff. What´s the bottom? Your guess is as good as mine but I can tell you that I´ve had a lot of therapists who were stymied with these cases who were going nowhere.

In fact someone here that I told some basic information about this to in Ohio a couple of months ago said it opened all sorts of things up in a patient who´d been going nowhere. That´s an often common thing. I think that we can move down to deeper levels and if we deal with some of the deeper level stuff it may destroy all the stuff above it. But we don´t even know that yet.

In some of the patients I´m working with we have pretty much dealt with a lot of the top-level stuff. I´ll tell you how we´ve done some of that. We´ll take and erase one system like Omega. Then we will have a huge abreaction of all the memories and feelings in a fractionated abreaction associated with those parts. I typically find I´ll say to them, "Now that we´ve done this are there any other memories and feelings that any parts that were Omega still have?" The answer´s usually "No." At that point I will say, "I usually find at this point in time the majority, if not all, of those parts that used to be Omega no longer feel a desire or need to be different, realizing that you split off originally by them and want to go home to Mary and become one with her again."

I use the concept often now -- which came from a patient -- of going home and becoming one with her. "Going back from whence you came" is another phrase I´ll use with them. "Are there any Omega parts inside who do not feel comfortable with that or have reservations or concerns about that?" If there are we talk to them. We deal with them. A few may not integrate. My experience is most of the time they´ll integrate and we may integrate twenty-five parts at once in a polyfragmented complex MPD.

I think it is vitally important to abreact the feelings before you go on. Also for many patients it hasn´t seemed to matter the order we go in but I´ve found a couple where it has. If it doesn´t seem to matter I´ll typically go Omega, then Delta because they have more violence potential, then Gamma to get rid of the self-deception stuff. What I will do before I just assume anything and do that, is once we´ve done Omega and showed them that success can occur and something can happen and they feel relief after, I will say to them, "I want to ask the core -- through the fingers -- is there a specific order in which programs must be erased?" You know maybe it doesn´t matter but most of the time I found "No." There are cases where we found "Yes."

I recommend doing one or two or three of those because they´ll produce relief and and a sense of optimism in the patient. But then I would recommend starting to probe for the deeper level things and getting their input and recommendations about the order in which we go.

Question?

Q: What has been the typical age and typical gender of this type of person?

Dr.H: I know of this being found in men and women. Most of the patients I know with MPD ritual abuse that are being treated are women, however. I know of some men being treated where we´ve found this. A while back I was talking to a small group of therapists somewhere. I told them about some of this. In the middle of talking about some of this all the color drained out of one social worker´s face and she obviously had a reaction and I asked her about and she said, "I´m working with a five-year-old boy," and she said, "Just in the last few weeks he was saying something about a Dr. Green." I went on a little further and I mentioned some of these things and she just shook her head again. I said, "What´s going on?" She said, "He´s been spontaneously telling me about robots and about Omega." I think you will find variations of this and that they´ve changed it, probably every few years and maybe somewhat regionally to throw us off in various ways but that certain basics and fundamentals will probably be there. I have seen this in people up into their forties including people whose parents were very, very high in the CIA, other sorts of things like that. I´ve had some that were originally part of the Monarch Project which is the name of the government Intelligence project.

Question in the back?

Q: I´m still not grasping how one starts, how you find out how to erase. How do you get that information?

Dr.H: I would say, "I want the core, if necessary, using the telepathic communication ability you have to read minds," because they believe in that kind of stuff, "so I´ll use it..." I was trained in Ericsonian stuff, "...to obtain for me the erasure code of all Omega programs. When you´ve done so, I want the yes-finger to float up." Then I ask them to tell it to me. "Are there backups for Omega programs?" "Yes." "Okay? How many backups are there?" "Six," they say, let´s say. It´s different numbers. "Is there an erasure code for all the backup programs?" "No." "Is there an erasure code that combines all the backups into one?" "Yes." "Obtain that code for me and when you´ve go it give me the yes-signal again." It can move almost that fast in some cases where there´s not massive resistance.

Question?

Q: Yes, can you tell me what you know about the risks to the therapist? [Laughter]

Dr.H: You would have to ask.

Q: Yeah, I´d like to know that. What kind of data do you have given that you´ve had contact with large numbers of people. Not just threats but also any injury, any family problems that have arisen. That´s one question. A second one is are you aware of anybody that you´ve treated -- or others -- with this level of dissociation and trauma that have recovered? Integrated? Whole and happy?

Dr.H: Okay, I have one non-bloodline multiple, complex multiple who had this kind of programming where they have a lot of access to the patient as neighbors and where the doctor, by the way, you´ll find physicians heavily involved.

They´ve encouraged their own to go to medical school, to prescribe drugs to take care of their own, to get access to medical technology and be above suspicion. There have been a couple, in fact, in Utah who´ve been nailed now.

We now in Utah have two full time ritual-abuse investigators with statewide jurisdiction under the Attorney General´s Office to do nothing but investigate this. [Applause] Okay?

In a poll done in the State of Utah in January by the major newspaper and television station, they found that ninety percent of Utahans believe that ritual abuse is genuine and real. Not all of them believe it´s a frequent occurrence but some of that was imparted from two years of work by the Governor Commission on Ritual Abuse, interviewing, talking, meeting people, gathering data. Now when people say, by the way, "There´s no evidence. They´ve never found a body," that´s baloney.

They found a body in Idaho of a child. They´ve had a case last summer that was convicted on first-degree murder charges, two people that the summer before that were arrested where the teenaged girl´s finger and head were in the refrigerator and they were convicted of first-degree murder in Detroit. There have been cases and bodies.

Back to risk. I know of no therapist who´s been harmed. But patients inform us that there will come a future time where we could be at risk of being assassinated by patients who´ve been programmed to kill at a certain time anyone that they´ve told and any member of their own family who´s not active. If that would come about is speculative. Who knows for sure? Maybe, but I don´t think it´s entirely without risk.

A question in the back?

Q: It seems to me that there seems to be some similarity between these kinds of programming and those people who claim that they´ve been abducted by spaceships and have had themselves physically probed and reprogrammed and all of that sort of thing. Since Cape Canaveral is across the Florida peninsula from me and I don´t think that they´ve reported any spaceships lately, I was just wondering is there any sort of relationship between this and that?

Dr.H: I´ll share my speculation, that comes from others really. I´ve not dealt with any of those people. However, I know a therapist that I know and trust and respect who I´ve informed about all this a couple of years ago and has found it in a lot of patients and so on, who is firmly of the belief that those people are in fact ritual-abuse victims who have been programmed with that sort of thing to destroy all their credibility.

If somebody´s coming in and reporting abduction by a flying sauce who´s going to believe them on anything else in the future? Also as a kind of thing that can be pointed to and said, "This is as ridiculous as that." All I know is that I recently had a consult, a telephone consult, with a therapist where I had been instructing her about some of this kind of stuff. When we were consulting at one point in the fifth or sixth interview she said, "By the way, do you know anything about this topic?" I said, "Well, not really" and shared with her what I shared with you. I said, "If it were me being with this guy..." that she´d been seeing for a couple of months, I said, "I would ask inside for the core to take control of finger-signals and inquire about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta." She proceeded to do all that, got back to me a week later and said, "Boy, were you on target. There is a part inside named Dr. Green. There´s this kind of programming."

Yes?

Q: What´s the difference between this kind of program and cult-type abuse and Satanic abuse in the kind of cults with the candles and the...

Dr.H: This type of programming will be done in the cults with the candles and all the rest. My impression is this is simply done in people where they have great access to them or they´re bloodline and their parents are in it and they can be raised in it from an early age.

If they are bloodline they are the chosen generation. If not, they´re expendable and they are expected to die and not get well. There will be booby traps in your way if they aren´t non-bloodline people that when they get well they will kill themselves. I´ll tell you just a little about that.

My belief is that some people that have ritual abuse and don´t have this have been ritually abused but they may be may be part of a non-mainstream group. The Satanism comes in the overall philosophy overriding all of this. People say, "What´s the purpose of it?" My best guess is that the purpose of it is that they want an army of Manchurian Candidates, ten of thousands of mental robots who will do prostitution, do child pornography, smuggle drugs, engage in international arms smuggling, do snuff films, all sorts of very lucrative things and do their bidding and eventually the megalomaniacs at the top believe they´ll create a Satanic Order that will rule the world. One last question. Then I´ll give you couple of details and we need to shift gears.

Q: You have suggested and implied that at some point at a high level of the U.S. Government there was support of this kind of thing. I know we´re short of time, but could you just say a few words about the documentation that may exist for that suggestion?

Dr.H: There isn´t great documentation of it. It comes from victims who are imperiled witnesses. The interesting thing is how many people have described the same scenario and how many people that we have worked with who have had relatives in NASA, in the CIA and in the Military, including very high-ups in the Military.

I can tell you that a friend and colleague of mine who has probably the equivalent of half the table space on that far side of the room filled with boxes with declassified documents from mind-control research done in the past which has been able to be declassified over a considerable -- couple of decades -- period and has read more government documents about mind control than anyone else, has a brief that has literally been sent in the past week and a half asking for all information to be declassified about the Monarch Project for us to try to find out more.

Now let me just mention something about some of the stuff that my experience is in several patients now that you may run into late in the process. I know I´m throwing a lot at you in a hurry. Some of it is completely foreign and some of you may think, "Gosh, could any of this be true?" Just, you know, ask. Find out in your patients and you may be lucky and there isn´t any of this. Somewhere at a deep level you may run into some things like this. Let me describe to you, if I can find my pen, the system in one patient.

One patient I had treated for quite a while, a non-bloodline person. We had done what appeared to be successful work and reached final integration. She came back to me early last year and said she was symptomatic with some things. I started inquiring. I found a part there we´d integrated. The part basically said, "There was other stuff that I couldn´t tell you about and you integrated me and so I had to split off." I had done some inquiring about things like Alpha, Beta as a routine part of it and found they were there and I said to this part, "Why didn´t you tell me about this stuff?" She said, "Well, we gave you some hints but they went right over your head." Says, "I´m sorry, but we know that you didn´t know enough to help us but now we know you can." So the stuff started coming out. It was interesting. She described the overall system -- if I can remember it now -- as being like this.

The circle represented harm to the body, a system of alters whose primary purpose was to hurt her including symptoms like Munchhausen´s, self- mutilation, other kinds of things.

Each of the triangles represented still another different system. She said, "With the exception of me," this one part, "you dealt with the whole circle with the work that we did before but you didn´t touch the rest of the stuff." Okay.

In the middle of all this was still another system consisting of the Cabalistic Tree, which some of you are aware, looks approximately like this with lines in between and so on and so forth. There´s a rough approximation. That represented another system.

Then once we got past that she implied that this entire thing was somehow encompassed by, what do you call it, an hourglass. I kept thinking we were at final integration then I´d find some other parts. This person had an eagle- eye husband that was watching for certain things that we found to be reliable indicators.

So often I would get evidence of dissociation within a few days. It would suddenly be picked up. You know, what we found was I continued to find evidence of dissociation and I´d find parts. Finally this part, as I got angry with him and said, "Why when I give these ideomotor inquiries am I getting lied to?" This part said, "Because you don´t understand. You´re going to get us all killed." We started talking and then she basically said, "It´s been programmed so that if you succeed and think you´ve succeeded, you will fail. They build it in as a way to laugh at you, that if you ever get us integrated, we will die."

Here´s what she said, this part said, "I´m one of twelve disciples," and I´ve seen this in others, twelve disciples within this hourglass each of whom had to memorize a disciple-lesson which were basic Satanic kind of premises, philosophies of life like "be good to those who hurt you, hate those who are nice to you," on and on and on. There may be two or three sentences like that associated with each that they had to memorize them.

They said, "We are like grains of sand falling and when the last grain of sand falls, there´s Death." I said, "Is Death a part?" "Yes. When the last grain of sand falls the Sleeping Giant awakens." The Sleeping Giant was Death, who was then to kill them on Day-One or Day-Six after awakening unless certain things were followed and we did some of those.

Well we also found Death had a sister as a backup, used with mirrors to create the sister part. We had to get past and deal with that too. Death had certain things that they said had to be done to integrate. I started to say, "Oh, come on, they lied to you before." She said, "Wait a minute. This what they said you´d say. They said that no doctor would ever believe that they had to go these extremes to get us well and that´s part of the reason they´d fail." I said, "Well, tell me, tell me again." She said, "I have to be dressed all in red. I have to have Demerol onboard, have taken Demerol. A code has to be given and it has to be in a room that´s totally dark. It has to happen on Day-One or Day-Six after this part´s been awakened." I said what I´d have to lose? I had a psychiatrist give her a little Demerol. We used the code. My office didn´t have any windows anyway. It was pretty easy. Oh, and there had to be four, I think, candles lit.

Well, fine. So we did it and everything went well. Maybe it would have gone well if we hadn´t done it, but I decided not to take the chance and to trust the patient maybe. Well, so we go on and then we find another part. There´s Death And Destruction, another backup also with a sister that we had to get through. In fact, I think there were two backups there. Interestingly, the very last part was an extremely nice part, made especially that way so that they wouldn´t want to lose them because they would be so adorable and so loving and so sweet that they wouldn´t want to maybe get rid of them.

Then we found that she continued to have these feelings with this last part left now of darkness and blackness inside. What did we find? A curtain. She said, "They assumed that if you ever got to this point, you would," and along the way, by the way, we had encountered this stuff about the LSD stuff, the Green Bomb programming. The message was that she said, "There is a curtain behind which are the remaining feelings and memories, but it can´t be opened from the middle. It´s like a stage curtain. It has to opened this way," that it can´t be opened. They assumed that you would try to deal with all the feelings. That can´t be opened until you´ve dealt with that last part and they´ve integrated. So far it looks like we´ve got integration that´s holding.

So I found Death And Destruction and the Hourglass in non-bloodline. "The Tree and the Hourglass," this patient informed me, "were made of sand because we were meant to die. We´re expendable. We´re the unchosen generation." I´ve heard variously that it´s crystals or blood that fills the Hourglass in bloodline people. By the way, you can do real simple things like turn the Hourglass on its side so nothing can fall out, so time stands still to be able to do certain kinds of work. Spread the grains of sand on the seashore so that they can´t be numbered and the time will not be counted. Got that idea from a ritual-abuse victim who had seen some of this kind of programming done that another therapist was seeing.

So those would be just a few other hints about things that may be helpful or meaningful. We´re talking about very intensive things and at deep levels to to me this give us two things. One thing it gives to me is hope because it gets to material and it makes progress like nothing else we´ve ever seen with these people who have it. The second thing it does for me is it demoralizes me, too, because although three years ago I had a pretty good idea about the extent and breadth of what they´d one to these victims, I had no real appreciation for the depth and breadth and intensity of what they´d done.

I want to come back to the other question over here now. The other question is how many of them can get well? We don´t know. In most things in the mental health profession we accept two-thirds of the patients are going to improve, maybe seventy percent. There´s very little we can get everybody well.

I think one of the sad things we have to face is that many of these patients will probably never be well. My personal belief is that if they are being messed with their only hope of getting well is if they can somehow get out of contact.

Now I know patients who´ve gone to other states and simply had deep- level alters pick up the phone and call and said, "This is our new address and phone number" so that they could be picked up locally. I mean in an inpatient unit for an extended period of time. If they are in a Cult from their area and they are still being monitored and messed with, my own personal opinion is we can´t get them well and can´t offer more than humanitarian caring and supportiveness. Lots of therapists do not like to hear that. That´s my opinion.

I believe that if somehow they´re lucky enough to be wealthy enough to have protection, to have somehow gotten away in some way and we can work with them without being messed with, that they have a chance to reach some semblance of normality and livability with enough intensive work.

My own personal belief is I don´t think anybody with this kind of programming is well in this country yet. There are some who are well along the way. I´ve got a couple who are well along in their work and have done a tremendous amount, but they´re clearly not well yet.

Q: Could you speculate on the relationship between this stuff and the fantasy games that have been proliferating, Dungeons and Dragons and that sort of thing?

Dr.H: Well, there are a lot of things out there to cue people. You want to see a great movie, interesting movie, to cue people? Go see "Trancers II." You can rent it in your video shop. Came out last fall.

One night in sheer desperation for something at the video store, you know? Nine o´clock on Friday night. Everything´s gone. I rented a couple of movies and one of them is that. Fascinating. They´re talking about Green World Order. Yes, "Trancers II." And who is the production company? Full Moon Productions. I couldn´t see much cuing in "Trancers I," but who´s the production company in "Trancers I"? Alter Productions.

There are lots of things around that are cuing. There´s an interesting person in the late sixties who talked about the Illuminati. Have any of you ever heard of the Illuminati with regard to the Cult? Had a patient bring that up to me just about exactly two years ago. We´ve now had other stuff come out from other patients. Appears to be the name of the international world leadership. There appear to be Illuminatic Counsels in several parts of the world and one internationally. The name of the international leadership of the Cult supposedly. Is this true? well, I don´t know. It´s interesting we´re getting some people who are trying to work without cuing who are saying some very similar things.

There was an old guy in Hollywood in the late sixties who talked about the infiltration of Hollywood by the Illuminati. Certainly what some patients have said is all of this spook stuff, horror stuff, possession and everything else that´s been popularized in the last twenty years in Hollywood is in order to soften up the public so that when a Satanic world order takes over, everyone will have been desensitized to so many of these things, plus to continually cue lots of people out there. is that true? Well, I can´t definitely tell you that it is.

What I can say is I now believe that ritual-abuse programming is widespread, is systematic, is very organized from highly esoteric information which is published nowhere, has not been on any book or talk show, that we have found all around this country and at least one foreign country.

Let´s take a couple of quick questions and we need to get on to other material. Yes?

Q: Do you have any techniques for decreasing your level of uncertainty that a patient is or is not being still tampered with, "messed with," as you said?

Dr.H: Just that I would ask several of the parts I´ve inquired about, Core, Diana, Wisdom, Master Programmer, several parts inside I would ask about these sorts of things and I will keep asking it. As you do additional work and get a bit further, I would ask again to find out. In the back?

Q: I wonder if you´ve heard or you know of the Martin Luther Bloodline?

Dr.H: The what?

Q: Martin Luther Bloodline?

Dr.H: I know nothing about Martin Luther Bloodline. I´ll give you one other quick tip. Ask him about an identification code. There´s an identification code that people have. It will involve their birth date. It may involve places where they were programmed and it will usually involve a number in there that will be their birth order, like zero-two if they were second-born. It will usually involve a number that represents the number of generations in the Cult, if they are bloodlines. I´ve seen up to twelve now, twelve generations.

Q: I have seen a lot of the things you´ve been describing today in several patients. I wanted to ask you a question about the Seven Systems. You mentioned something about systems here. Are there Seven Systems?

Dr.H: There has been that described in some patients, yes, the Seven Systems.

Q: Could you say what that is or a little diagram?

Dr.H: I don´t think we know enough to know what it is, honestly. I think it may have to do with Seven Cabalistic Trees.

Q: Have you ever had any evidence where any of these people have been tagged and there have been anything of their body-parts that might be related to this, private parts in particular?

Dr.H: Well, there are certainly people that have had tattoos, that have had a variety of other kinds of things, some of which have been, you know, documented in cases, but I mean to say, well, maybe they did that to themselves or had it done consciously to really prove something, not that occurs to right off the bat. Let me just take this one last question back and we need to go on to other material because we´re never going to get through it all. I´ll just ask you to hold your question.

Q: It´s not a question but I wanted to say for myself, personally, and perhaps for others here as well, I wanted to thank you very sincerely for taking this time to come forward. [Applause]

Dr.H: Well, [Applause]

Q: Does anyone want to join us for a standing ovation for this material? It´s wonderful. [Sustained applause]

Dr.H: A dear friend who´s one of the top people in the field, who I know has had death threats, but I know struggled for professional credibility in believing in MPD and was harshly criticized for even believing in that ten and fifteen years ago, and struggled to a point of professional credibility. I think in his heart of hearts he knows it´s true, but he will say things like, "I wouldn´t be surprised to find tomorrow it was an international conspiracy and I wouldn´t be surprised to find tomorrow that it is an urban myth and rumor." He tries to stay right on the fence and the reason is because it´s controversial, because there is a campaign underway saying these all false memories induced by, along with incest and everything else, by "Oprah" and by books like "The Courage to Heal" and by naive therapists using hypnosis. It´s controversial. My personal opinion has come to be if they´re going to kill me, they´re going to kill me. There´s going to be an awful lot of information that´s been put away that´ll go to investigative reporters and multiple investigative agencies, if it happens, and an awful lot of people like you , I hope, that if I ever have an accident will be pushing for a very large-scale investigation. I think we have to stand up as some kind of moral conscience at some point and I tried to wait until we had gotten enough verification from independent places to have some real confidence that this was widespread.

I know we´ve gone like a house afire to try to pack as much as I could in for you. I hope it´s given you some things to think about and some new ideas and I appreciate being with you. [Long sustained applause]

There was an old guy in Hollywood in the late sixties who talked about the infiltration of Hollywood by the Illuminati. Certainly what some patients have said is all of this spook stuff, horror stuff, possession and everything else that´s been popularized in the last twenty years in Hollywood is in order to soften up the public so that when a Satanic world order takes over, everyone will have been desensitized to so many of these things, plus to continually cue lots of people out there. is that true? Well, I can´t definitely tell you that it is.

What I can say is I now believe that ritual-abuse programming is widespread, is systematic, is very organized from highly esoteric information which is published nowhere, has not been on any book or talk show, that we have found all around this country and at least one foreign country.

Let´s take a couple of quick questions and we need to get on to other material. Yes?

Q: Do you have any techniques for decreasing your level of uncertainty that a patient is or is not being still tampered with, "messed with," as you said?

Dr.H: Just that I would ask several of the parts I´ve inquired about, Core, Diana, Wisdom, Master Programmer, several parts inside I would ask about these sorts of things and I will keep asking it. As you do additional work and get a bit further, I would ask again to find out. In the back?

Q: I wonder if you´ve heard or you know of the Martin Luther Bloodline?

Dr.H: The what?

Q: Martin Luther Bloodline?

Dr.H: I know nothing about Martin Luther Bloodline. I´ll give you one other quick tip. Ask him about an identification code. There´s an identification code that people have. It will involve their birth date. It may involve places where they were programmed and it will usually involve a number in there that will be their birth order, like zero-two if they were second-born. It will usually involve a number that represents the number of generations in the Cult, if they are bloodlines. I´ve seen up to twelve now, twelve generations.

Q: I have seen a lot of the things you´ve been describing today in several patients. I wanted to ask you a question about the Seven Systems. You mentioned something about systems here. Are there Seven Systems?

Dr.H: There has been that described in some patients, yes, the Seven Systems.

Q: Could you say what that is or a little diagram?

Dr.H: I don´t think we know enough to know what it is, honestly. I think it may have to do with Seven Cabalistic Trees.

Q: Have you ever had any evidence where any of these people have been tagged and there have been anything of their body-parts that might be related to this, private parts in particular?

Dr.H: Well, there are certainly people that have had tattoos, that have had a variety of other kinds of things, some of which have been, you know, documented in cases, but I mean to say, well, maybe they did that to themselves or had it done consciously to really prove something, not that occurs to right off the bat. Let me just take this one last question back and we need to go on to other material because we´re never going to get through it all. I´ll just ask you to hold your question.

Q: It´s not a question but I wanted to say for myself, personally, and perhaps for others here as well, I wanted to thank you very sincerely for taking this time to come forward. [Applause]

Dr.H: Well, [Applause]

Q: Does anyone want to join us for a standing ovation for this material? It´s wonderful. [Sustained applause]

Dr.H: A dear friend who´s one of the top people in the field, who I know has had death threats, but I know struggled for professional credibility in believing in MPD and was harshly criticized for even believing in that ten and fifteen years ago, and struggled to a point of professional credibility. I think in his heart of hearts he knows it´s true, but he will say things like, "I wouldn´t be surprised to find tomorrow it was an international conspiracy and I wouldn´t be surprised to find tomorrow that it is an urban myth and rumor." He tries to stay right on the fence and the reason is because it´s controversial, because there is a campaign underway saying these all false memories induced by, along with incest and everything else, by "Oprah" and by books like "The Courage to Heal" and by naive therapists using hypnosis. It´s controversial. My personal opinion has come to be if they´re going to kill me, they´re going to kill me. There´s going to be an awful lot of information that´s been put away that´ll go to investigative reporters and multiple investigative agencies, if it happens, and an awful lot of people like you , I hope, that if I ever have an accident will be pushing for a very large-scale investigation. I think we have to stand up as some kind of moral conscience at some point and I tried to wait until we had gotten enough verification from independent places to have some real confidence that this was widespread.

I know we´ve gone like a house afire to try to pack as much as I could in for you. I hope it´s given you some things to think about and some new ideas and I appreciate being with you. [Long sustained applause]

Anders, Beautiful....thank you so very much

920? Yeah compliments of GLP. My new number? Also compliments of GLP.

I am still using Webwarper. I never changed a thing.

Cheers.

Ok now I changed something. lol

11543/920, are you now 246? How do you do that? btw, are you reading any of the post while you´re here playing...? Just wondering...

Anders, This is really EXCELLENT reading here... Anyone who seriously wants to learn what ritual abuse means can start right here... Good going man!

In all seriousness? Just playing.

11543, C´mon now.... Surely you´re not here just to look at the pretty Avatars...? aren´t you curious just a little to read the subject matter...? It´s a fascinating look at the darker workings of the human mind....could learn something that could prove to be useful one day...~ ~ ~

Last year, a poster who went by "cynical...(something)" gave a link that gave this same info. It was a long read, so didn´t garner much response. I would advise anyone with at least 3 brain cells and a 15-20 minute attention span to read this.

I have ALWAYS been fearful of hypnosis because I´ve seen where a person can be put fully under mental control of another individual, although briefly, as in the case of entertainment. I´ve seen some of this stuff done subliminally on TV as well, working on the subconscious mind. All it takes is programming a thought into the mind, using color, lights, movement, etc. Very devious!

After 911, the command to the people was to go shopping because the "authorities" would take care of the rest. And shop they did! Think about it. The use of "911" worked.

14415~ I know, isn´t that info that Anders posted just amazing >>? Defintely worth the 15 minutes of focus to read it...but you know that leaves out alot of the dwellers here ! Have a good day now!

Hi BD

this is the one smart rat stuff

is v v long

but worth the read

1

That´s a very unusual witness event! Your grandson has a contiguous memory of something that is highly strange given the context. It sounds like he is very unusual in a number of different ways.

I am very familiar with The Bay Area UFO Expo. I know several people involved with it and have attending many times...as well as a number of other UFO expos/events.

I suggest that, if you want to protect your grandson and preserve his memory intact, you would serve him better by not taking him to that expo (or any other "UFO/abduction events")...or if you do, NOT discussing what you described here about his eye-witnessing your abduction...AND TELLING HIM NOT TO DISCUSS IT AT THAT EVENT.

This is not general paranoia. There are people that infiltrate those events and cull the participants...looking especially for certain types of children, AND THEY HAVE INTERESTS AND AN AGENDA THAT IS RADICALLY DIFFERENT THAN YOU DO...or even the sponsors of the event/expo.

Your grandson has unusual abilities and has a high level of awareness. This is a good thing...but can become a liability, as you yourself are already "involved", he could become a "person of interest" to people that might have a very negative impact on his life.

Therefore, my advice is tell him to be discreet about WHO AND WHERE he shares his stories (about witnessed events) and his "talents and abilities" with...he may have to learn to hide his ´light´ from those who would exploit and abuse it.


2

My concerns regarding this boy would run from occult-based handlers to military/govt. intel.

Wherever you find substantial groups abductees or people who have had first hand knowledge (witness or active involvement) getting together for any event, you´ll find handlers. If the gathering is big enough an assortment of "agents" representing a wide variety of interests and agendas.

Children and young people are especially vulnerable as these people, who, by their nature and intention, are predatory. Young people who are bright and posses psychic abilities are particularly vulnerable.

I glean from my "oracle" that the boy in question, in this story, is a natural psychic...quite special in fact, he( or others in his life) may not realize yet just HOW special (and unique) he is...(I am just tryin´ to run a little defense on his behalf here. he needs to be protected right now, as his is not fully "self-aware" yet.)

I would also recommend to anyone else going to these types of events to keep your personal information to yourself, use first names only or a fake name and use only cash (no debit or credit cards or checks).

I can´t go into this right now as I am on the otherside of a very long day...and must retire now......Thanks for your interest!


3

I would have to go into a lot of explanation to tell you why I think Mack is "dirty".

I had some brief interaction with his organization over a dozen years ago. However, THAT experience is not the sole basis for my opinion.

I want to digress a bit here, and be real clear regarding my concern (expressed in previous posts) about taking your Grandson into a very dangerous environment. I AM FROM the Bay Area originally. I grew up there and spent most of my life there. I am very familiar with the "regulars" of those who will be in attendance. I actually have gone to this event yearly for quite awhile now.

I expressed this concern primarily based on your first post describing your experience and your grandson witnessing your abduction. The way in which you described it, if it is accurate, and if he really did "witness" what you described, then this is something of an anomaly, and maybe there are more details and where I to ask the right questions, I would find that this event is not exactly how I think it is being described.

This doesn´t mean that what you described didn´t happen, it is just that I am at a loss for some details that would help me understand exactly what your grandson´s relationship is to "your abduction phenomenon.

Questions:

Did your grandson actually witness these "ships" in real time (that is concurrent with the time your were being abducted) or was this before or after the event (before or after you were returned)?

How long did his "witnessed event" last? Total time from it´s beginning until it was over (over for him).

Has he ever reported being abducted or reported missing-time?

Does he suffer from allergies or migraines (or headaches)? Specifically in terms of allergies;skin rashes?

Is he your biological grandson or is he adopted?

Has he reported "witnessing" other sightings or other paranormal events?

Does he display intuitive abilities or express an interest in this area (psychic/telepathy/telekenesis etc., etc.,)?

Has he reported seeing or hearing or experiencing ghosts/spirits/aparitions?

Are either of his parents abductees?

Are either of the parents in the employ of the govt./military/intel community...or civilian contractors (corporate contractor with govt. contracts)?

Anybody in the family a Mason, or in your family tree?

Does your Grandson have blond or red hair? Blue eyes or brown?

Is he a very smart boy...academically is he bright?

One would presume that would be the case if you are a life-long abductee.

If you can give me some answers here, I will have a better idea about what is happening relative to your grandson...and I will tell you, based on those answers as to why I think it is that A) your grandson is unusual and
b) His "witnessing" your event is a highly anomalous.
c) Why John Mack is a clear and present danger to him.

I spent twelve years researching and working directly with abductess (using cutting-edge investigative psycho-dynamic therapuetic/forensic modalities). I have some background here to provide some helpful insights...but I need a little more detail to go on...to draw a profile and analyze this, so I can address the questions you asked about Mack and the UFO expo in a more specific and concise manner


4

Sharon;

Ok, I have to make this as concise as I can owing to the fact that I have a rather heavy schedule today and I wanted to get back to you as quickly as I could.

I asked those specific questions for a number of reasons; there are a whole lot of other questions I could ask, but I had to streamline this process for obvious reasons.

I am focussing primarily on structure here (the STRUCTURE of the experience) with content being secondary.

Content is important to structure, but it cannot, in itself determine the exact nature of how and WHAT actually occurred, particularly in regards to this topic where there is apparently eclipses of consciousness and a alteration in contiguous streams (states) of consciousness.

My concern with Mack is based on opinion drawn from:

1)brief personal contact with his group (not with him personally)

2)data analysis of his profile (his background/credentials/past personal biography), his means of forensic discovery, and his conclusions based on research he has done in this area...based on what he has said and published.

MY conclusion from my own personal evaluation of John Mack,M.D. is that:

1) He is postulating a thesis based on a belief and, or, assumptions made regarding the ontological nature of an experience (ie.,"alien abductions")by using that same belief as empirical evidence for the proof of the existence of the reality described by the belief.

2) He uses his credentials as a psychiatric specialist; a medical doctor with ample years of education, training and experience to clinically explore and investigate the "experiences" of his clients (abductees/"expereincers") without using any of the diagnostic or clinically forensic criteria of this field (psychiatry) within which he has made a career of, and advanced in his professional life. This is odd, considering his credentials and past affiliations. One would assume that he must have been practicing psychiatry in some form close enough to standards acceptable enough in conventional medical/psychiatric practices in order to be accredited and advance professionally among his peers, as well as retain a medial license.

His professional biography would certainly attest to the conclusion that this man has been a practicing psychiatrist (practicing medicine using the standard protocols of the field) most all of his career.

Therefore, one can conclude that he is an expert in the field of psychiatry.

Being an expert, one would presume he uses his expertise, along with his accumulated knowledge through his professional experience (vis via his training and clinical experience) as established criteria through which to investigate the phenomenology of the inherent structure (the dynamics of HOW and WHAT is occurring) and of the "experiences" described by his clients and subsequently diagnose the impact of these experiences as manifested in their pathology.

Which he DOES NOT EVER DISCUSS OR ACKNOWLEDGE.

In other words, given his credentials and knowledge in this field, it is what he does not discuss that draws a real big red flag as to the true nature behind his motis operandi and his motivation/intention behind what he is doing and saying.

There is a huge schism here for people that have an "inside" understanding/expertise (like Mr. Mack) that laymen do not.

Mack does not apply, at least publically, the same forensic diagnostic criteria to his "study of abductees/experiencers" because to do so, would in fact lead one to conclusions other than the one that he is openly postulating as the etiological basis for the pathology of the
experience itself.

I can only give you a very brief example of this here, because it would be far too lengthy within this post to give a much broader description and attendant example of what I am talking about.

Here is one of the more glaring examples I have found on the specific theme (which is a re-occurring theme found within his published writings:

-excerpt from a Nova (PBS) interview;

NOVA: .....Alien hybrid. What does that mean?

MACK: Sometimes along the way, as you go deeper and deeper into the person´s consciousness, into their experience, they will discover....what is called a dual identity. In other words, that they are both human -- in one dimension; but they also are themselves, have an alien identity. That they are participatory in this reproductive hybrid program, as if they were altogether part of it. And that they may, in fact, even experience themselves as aliens.


(I have embolden and highlighted the statement for my own emphasis.)

This is a strikingly outrageous statement from a psychiatric perspective; from a psychiatrist trained in a field with intimate knowledge of psycho-dynamics of the human mind and a background with extensive application of forensic diagnostic criteria used in clinical practice.

In other words, he knows better.

This isn´t incompetence or naivete; it´s an agenda of deliberate deception at best, and implicit evidence of complicity in criminal activity, in the "worst case" scenario.


As far as your grandson goes, I have some insights, based on your recent additional information, regarding what is happening.

I cannot post this now, but will get back to it later.

As you seem to be convinced of your situation, I recommend caution with Mack. Be guarded about what you say about your family, and in particular, the experiences of your grandson. I would not relate any information about him to Mack, if I were you...but I am not you. So, all I can say is good luck.

I am also providing a link to a site that contains very comprehensive and thorough research by a man who has a solid background in this area. The information may be helpful to you in providing a larger and perhaps different scope from which to evaluate the activities of John Mack and others like him, and to look at this topic from another perspective.

[link to www.geocities.com]


5

Patricia, you wrote;

"I´ve posted so much about my re-abduction stuff that I hesitate to subject the rest of the bunch to it again. Very short version: once a month, sometimes for months in a row, I heard a white, male American (mid-West) voice say very loudly in my head, "LIE DOWN NOW!" and I´d know I had seconds before unconsciousness descended. Then I´d wake up an hour or two later, sometimes sore or bruised or nauseated, right where I passed out."

You have what is called a RHIC-EDOM device. It is a radio receiver implant that has been used for quite awhile now by military/intel community.
Radio-Hypnotic-Intracereberal Command-- Electronic Dissolution of Memory.

This device is very small and is implanted through the back of the skull (inside the brain) at the area approximately behind the ear. It bypasses the normal auditory route and actually produces sounds heard in the brain/mind/consciousness. You feel ill and have bruises,etc., afterwards because of WHAT else happens after you lose that stream of consciousness. Also, this device can produce some degree of dizziness and imbalance (possibly vertigo.

You have a memory for that missing-time...you just can´t access it...yet.

I know about this from personal experience.

Pretty standard implant in all abductees.

I bet I know which ear it is behind.

Patricia, Do you hear the voice in the right side of your head, the middle, or on the left?

This device was developed based largely on the work of Jose Delgado...another "Doctor" sponsored by Harvard University (through govt./military contracts).

Lee Harvey Oswald probably had an early prototype (the technology has been updated),and also Tim McVeigh may have had one.


Maia, you wrote this question;

"So, is this an implication that if I were to claim that I had the experience of a dual human/alien/ET identity that that is a pathology and should be treated accordingly. Or you are implying that that is only mind control and couldn´t be real?"

In response to:

MACK: Sometimes along the way, as you go deeper and deeper into the person´s consciousness, into their experience, they will discover....what is called a dual identity. In other words, that they are both human -- in one dimension; but they also are themselves, have an alien identity. That they are participatory in this reproductive hybrid program, as if they were altogether part of it. And that they may, in fact, even experience themselves as aliens.

Please understand, I know all about this subject from first hand knowledge. Abductions ARE REAL.

What I was saying in regard to Mack´s comments (and he repeats this theme over and over again) is that this guy, a psychiatrist with high credentials, IS NOT saying "these people feel like they are aliens" or that they BELIEVE they have an "alien identity". He states that they are "discovering" (as he puts them deeper and deeper in trance) that they are "half alien" or that they have an "alien identity" as if it were an actuality; a concrete reality....as if the belief was actually true.

Now, how would he be able to determine That?

What this guy is doing, and others like him, is reinforcing the beliefs and the "stories" that abductees have been told DURING THEIR ABDUCTIONS....stories and experiences that they have had under extreme stress and trauma...and with severe dissociative amnesia as a result of these experiences.

He is reinforcing the "internal program" so to speak. He is reinforcing what they ARE SUPPOSED TO REMEMBER about their experiences.

It´s understandable that people who have had these experiences would admire him and be drawn to him. With his credentials (M.D.´s have a lot of credibility in this society; psychiatrists especially).

What´s insidious is HOW he relates to the abductees and how he reinforces the dogma, and how he frames the nature of the phenomenon to the general public at large.

(In light of the recent "Homeland Security/Terrorism Laws...someone like him could be frightening as far as the ramifications for abductees /"experiencers" if he was taken seriously by some pretty paranoid people...ie., John Ashcroft or Tom Ridge)

I will tell you, my first introduction to this guy was way back a dozen or more years ago. This was when he was first coming out in a public forum. His PEER Program was set-up to study abductees from supposedly objective psychiatric perspective. Yeah, and when I looked into it, it turned out that this so-called "study" was highly selective...they were profiling people, looking not for a good random sampling of abductees from the population, but looking only for certain types of abductees...abdcutees who had a certain personality profile and believed that they were "chosen" and special and that the "aliens" were here to "help mankind". Hey, that´s fine...but how is that any kind of a legitimate unbiased clinical study? It´s a stacked deck, that is what it is/was.

I also had looked into his past and present affiliations, people he has been involved with, etc., and it is an interesting (but not surprising) group. I will post some of this information here.

Sharon;

Your grandson´s "programming" is breaking down.

He is being used in govt./military psychic applications. He is a very talented psychic. He is being used by military/intel "black-ops" people.

The "witnessed event" was part of a set-up to reinforce his belief in the UFO/ABDUCTION scenario. (There is a reality behind the ufo/abdcution scenario...there are "aliens" and "alien encounters"). This is being done to prepare him for use later on in the military. This is cult-based and these people are highly skilled and nasty when it comes to "losing their "product".

They are also using you to do this.

His academic school life has been deliberately sabotaged.(This may be to make him more "manageable", as he might later on actually (officially) join the military because he has not succeeded academically.

His allergies are a result of his auto-immune system responding to the stressors, and it is a sign that the "links" to his mind are breaking down and he may become not usable if this happens. They are simply trying to protect their investment.

I suggest taking him to someone NOT ASSOCIATED WITH UFO/ABDCUTION STUFF, someone with a good background in DISSOCIATIVE DISORDERS/PTSD WHO USES EMDR. He might benefit both psychologically and physically form this...espercially if he can access more information about what occurred during this "witnessd event"...as he does not remember everything that happened (even though he may think he does). I wish him and you good luck. You might try the International Society for study of Dissociation (ISSD) to give you a referral to someone in your area. Also there is SIDRAN, who could do the same thing (but I now less about them).

Anyway, it´s about being aware and smart, not about being paranoid and afraid.

I hope you all have fun at the Expo...I wish I could be there and meet you all...I could point out all the spooks and we could mock them!!

The following is background info and supplementry sources for a look into exactly who is John Mack...

John Mack

Dr. John Mack is the Pulitzer Prize winning psychiatrist who has validated UFO abduction experiences using "recovered memories". "Mack was one of the men who forged Harvard´s Cambridge Hospital Department of Psychiatry into a premier teaching hospital...and for four years he was its head.

He´s been a member of the Boston Psychoanalytic Institute, certified as a Child Psychoanalyst and Chairman of the Executive Committee for all five hospital-based departments of psychiatry...He´s also a high-profile idealist who´s been at the forefront of efforts by his peers for global peace and conservation. He is founding Director of the Center for Psychological Studies in the Nuclear Age and a member of Physicians for Social Responsibility and International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War.

"He was raised in a rationalist, German-Jewish, New York household, where his father read him the Bible, not because he believed in God but because the stories were fascinating...

He went on to specialize in child psychoanalysis....Later he began to work on issues of nuclear disarmament, global peace and conservation. He has traveled the world attending conferences on ecology and the Earth, mingling with everyone from scientists to philosophers, philanthropists and economists.

He also began to explore alternative approaches to consciousness. In the 1970´s Mack was taken with Werner Erhard´s est and associated mind altering techniques."

- Jill Neimark, "The Harvard Professor and the UFO´s", Psychology Today (Mar/Apr 1994) This article "reveals a man who has never had a spiritual base but has viewed spiritualism as ´stories´ throughout his life and career and whom has been affiliated with a plethora of positions where he was associated with mind control experimentation financed by Richard Nixon´s LEAA ( Law Enforcement Assistance Administration ) to the tune of some $6 billion from it´s inception in 1968 by the Department of Justice and whose moneys were directed at behavior modification research projects.

Dr. Mack became ´interested in alternate consciousness´ programs around this time and has continued to be involved with programs financed by the military and CIA for use as weapons and behavior modifiers." - Chuck Zeps

Funded by a grant from the Human Potential Foundation, the project is under the auspices of the Center for Psychology and Social Change, an affiliate of Harvard Medical School at The Cambridge Hospital in Cambridge, Masachusetts. The Project is entitled PEER or the Program for Extraordinary Experience Research, and will provide support to individuals having these experiences, research the phenomenon and its implications for both the experiencers and the rest of humanity, and educate members of the service professions and the general public." - Karen Wesolowski

"As many of us know, the Human Potential Foundation is the organization that is operated by C.B. Scott Jones. I have heard, although this is not verified, that Jones´ organization is funded by Senator Claiborne Pell and Rockefeller." - Michael Corbin

Harvard psychology professor, probably the most prominent spokesman of the alien abduction phenomena.

Formerly on the board of advisors for Werner Erhard´s est.

According to Dick Farley, former aide to C.B. Scott Jones, Laurance Rockefeller funnelled "$194,000 to Mack´s Harvard- affiliated ´Center for Psychology and Social Change,´ via the Washington, D.C. chartered ´Human Potential Foundation, Inc.´ in the 1993-1994 period. Mack´s group then started ´PEER´ (Program for Exceptional Experience Research) and operated an ´alien abductee support group´ who, among other functions they served, became fodder for Dr. Mack´s 1994 ´Abductions.´"

(Please pay attention to the time window here and elsewhere in these resumes, particularly...1993/´94...OSR)

According to Donna Bassett, who infiltrated Mack´s abductee support group, the Center for Psychology and Social Change (co-founded by Robert Jay Lifton) receives $250,000 a year from Rockefeller. Rockefeller also gave $194,000 to PEER (Program for Extraordinary Experience Research), along with various other donations.

According to Bassett, Mack claims to have received funding from an ex-CIA source.

Mack was reportedly heavily involved in the Russian/American exchange at the Esalen Institute.

Human Potential Foundation
PO Box 6, Falls Church, VA 22040-0006
Phone: 703/534-8566 Fax: 703/534-8569
Founded: 1989
Founder and president: C.B. Scott Jones
Board members include Clark Sandground and Claiborne Pell.
Received original funding from Laurance Rockefeller. Passes funds from Rockefeller to UFO abduction researcher John Mack.

Worked with Dr. Igor Smirnov.

(Who is DR. Igor Smirnov?)

Dr. Igor Smirnov

Smirnov gave a series of closed meetings in Northern Virginia, starting on 3/17/93, to the FBI, CIA, DIA, and ARPA concerning Russian developments with a device that allegedly implanted thoughts in a subject´s mind. The FBI was considering using this device to implant the voice of God in David Koresh´s mind, telling him to surrender.
Other, non-intelligence participants included Dr. Christopher Green and Dr. Richard Nakamura of the National Institute of Health [I think he may now be the director].

This technology was supposedly used by the Russians against civilians in Afghanistan, and possibly on the Red Army to prepare them for battle.

The American rights to this technology is owned by a Richmond, Virginia company called Psycotechnologies Corp. (Defense Electronics, 7/93. Reprinted in Flatland #11)

As of 1994, Smirnov has worked at Moscow´s Institute of Psycho-Correction, using subliminal technology as therapy for drug abusers and others. The Institute has been strapped for cash after the the fall of the Soviet Union, but it has refused to accept business from the Russian Mafia.
(Elliott, Dorinda and Barry, John, "A Subliminal Dr. Strangelove", Newsweek, 8/22/94, pg 57)

Note: I´m not sure how Smirnov´s device is supposed to work. Later reports claim it would work using inaudible, subliminal suggestions (spliced into phone conversations in the case of David Koresh). The device is definitely supposed to make the subject "hear" voices, as the FBI wanted to use Charlton Heston as the voice of God. This is definitely a different strategy from other subliminal techniques, which are designed to produce mere suggestions.

Has done work with the Human Potential Foundation and John Alexander.

(Who is John Alexander?)

John B. Alexander

Education: BGS in Sociology, University of Nebraska, 1971. MA in Education, Pepperdine University, 1975. PhD in Education, Walden University, 1980. Postgraduate work at UCLA (1990), MIT (1991), and Harvard (1993).

Entered the Army as a Private in 1956, and retired as a Colonel in 1988.Commander, Army Special Forces Teams, US Army, Thailand, Vietnam, 1966-69. Chief of human resources division, US Army, Ft. McPherson, GA, 1977-79. Inspector general, Departmant of Army, Washinton, 1980-82. Chief of human technology, Army Intelligence Command, US Army, Arlington, VA 1982-83. Manager of tech. integration, Army Materiel Command, US Army, Alexandria, VA, 1983-85. Director, advanced concepts US Army Lab. Command, Aldelphi, MD 1985-88.

Manager, nonlethal weapons defense technology, Los Alamos National Laboratory, 1988-1995 (ret). Manager, anti-material technology, Defense Initiatives Office, 1988-91. Program manager, contingency mission technology, Conventional Defense Technology. Director for science liaison, National Institute for Discovery Sciences, 1995 to present. Visiting scientist, Los Alamos, 1995 to present.Panelist, National Institute of Justice, 1994. Adj. professor, Graduate School, Union Institute, 1992 to present. US delegate to NATO, advanced group aerospace R & D, 1994 to present.

"Last year, Alexander organized a national conference devoted to researching ´reports of ritual abuse, near-death experiences, human contacts with extraterrestrial aliens and other so-called anomalous experiences,´ the Albuquerque Journal reported in March 1993.

The Australian magazine Nexus reported last year that in 1971, Alexander ´was diving in the Bimini Islands looking for the lost continent of Atlantis. He was an official representative for the Silva mind control organization and a lecturer on precataclysmic civilizations ... [and] he helped perform ESP experiments with dolphins.´"(Aftergood, Steven, "The Soft-Kill Fallacy", Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, 9-10/1994, v50, n5, p40)

´As a Special Forces A-Team commander in Thailand and Vietnam, he led hundreds of mercenaries into battle,´ the book explains. ´At the same time, he studied meditation in Buddhist monasteries and later engaged in technical exploration and demonstration of advanced human performance.´(Aftergood, 1994)

Formerly with the U.S. Army Intelligence & Security Command (INSCOM) under Gen. Albert Stubblebine, 1982-4. Reportedly, Alexander was one of Stubblebine´s closest officers. Married to alien abduction researcher Victoria Lacas (now Alexander).
(Porter, Tom, Government Research into ESP & Mind Control, March, 1996)

"After retiring from the Army in 1988, Alexander joined the Los Alamos National Laboratories and began working with Janet Morris, the Research Director of the U.S. Global Strategy Council (USGSC), chaired by Dr Ray Cline, former Deputy Director of the CIA."

"Born in New York in 1937, he spent part of his career as a Commander of Green Berets Special Forces in Vietnam, led Cambodian mercenaries behind enemy lines, and took part in a number of clandestine programmes, including Phoenix. He currently holds the post of Director of Non-lethal Programmes in the Los Alamos National Laboratories."

• Board member of PSI-TECH.

• "Alexander is a friend of Vice President Al Gore Jnr, their relationship dating back to 1983 when Gore was in Alexander´s Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP)."

• "Alexander and his team have recently been working with Dr Igor Smirnov."

• "The mysterious ´Col. Harold E. Phillips´ who appears in Blum´s OUT THERE is none other than John B. Alexander."
• Aviary, codename: Penguin.
(Victorian, Armen, "Non-Lethality: John B. Alexander, The Pentagon´s Penguin", Lobster Magazine, 6/93)
• Supported the views of Thomas Bearden.

Delivered a paper to the 1981 national
convention of the US Psychotronic Association. (McRae, Ronald, Mind Wars, St. Martin´s Press, 1984, p 127)

"I have served as chief of Advanced Human Technology for the Army Intelligence and Security Command (1982-84) and, during the preparation of the EHP [Enhancing Human Performance] Report, was director of the Advanced Systems Concepts Office at the U.S. Army Laboratory Command." -Alexander

Alexander stated: "..psychotronic weapons lack traditional scientific documentation, and I do not suggest that research projects be carried out in that field." (Alexander, Col. John, "A Challenge to the Report", New Realities, March/April 1989)

(What he means is that they need to be tested on non-combatants off field...on civilians...OSR...by the way folks, anybody notice all the references to Virginia...where is the hdqtrs of the CIA located?)

• Alexander is friends with Gordon Novel, and (according to Martin Cannon) Alexander passed a threat through his wife to researcher Martin Cannon, using Novel´s name for intimidation. Reportedly friends with Ron Pandolfi.
• Alexander is closely associated with Robert Bigelow and his National Institute for Discovery Science.
• Also identified as being with the Appolinaire Group.
Author of:
• "The New Mental Battlefield: Beam Me Up Spock", Military Review, 12/80
• The Warrior´s Edge
• Review of Psychic Warrior

(Strange professional associations for Harvard Psychiatrist Mack, eh?.... Does anybody else smell fish?...OSR)

And then there´s Mack´s involvement with Esalen...and the Russians...

(The Esalen-est Connection "I am ´The God Father´ of New Age Physics in California starting with Esalen in the 70´s and the Physics Consciousness Research Grope (pun intended) in San Francisco which at various times included Nick Herbert, Saul Paul Sirag, Time Leary, Robert Anton Wilson, Gary Zukav, Fritjof Capra, Fred Alan Wolf, Henry Pierce Stapp, Brian Josephson, Russell Targ, Hal Puthoff, Ralph Abraham, Phillipe Eberhard and many others who had dinner or were our guests at our Palatial quarters at top of Nob Hill 1155 Jones with money provided by Werner Erhard and by Laurence Rockefeller´s close friend Jean Lanier who was the widow of the Chairman Of Stone Webster.

We also got money from US Air Force Training command via the late spook George Koopman - as well as from CIA sources indirectly via the late Hal Chipman.

We were part of the covert psy war op which got high level Soviet officials to Esalen hot tubs where their minds were altered by psychedelics and our boys turned them - hence the fall of the Soviet Empire. Note that Boris Yeltsin came to America with Esalen money before he became President of Russia and that the head of Gorbachev Foundation USA is a former Esalen official."

- Jack Sarfatti ([email protected])

"In view of the present-day Esalen-Erhard-Yeltsin-Gorbachev connections, the 1979 Esalen-UFO connection is significant. Even though I had split with Werner Erhard by late 1977, est´s Raz Ingrasci phoned me and asked me to meet with Jenny O Conner. Raz said that Jenny had been sent to Werner by Sir John Whitmore who had funded Andrija Puharich´s collaborations with Uri Geller back in 1973. Jenny claimed to be channeling messages from "The Nine" - the same extra-terrestrials that Puharich wrote about..... Jenny and The Nine was promptly installed at Esalen, the New Age seminar and training center near Big Sur, California, for quite some time overlapping with visits by physicist the late Heinz Pagels, Congressman Charlie Rose, Ira Einhorn, and high ranking Russians from Georgy Arbatov´s Moscow Institute of US and Canada which was influential during Gorbachev´s watch. Soviet Officials at Esalen in late 70´s and early 80´s: Valentin M.Berezhkov Yuri A. Zamoshkin Andrey A. Kokoshin H.Jushkevitshus Vladimir M. Kuznetsov Victor M. Pogostin Vlail P. Kaznacheyev Joseph Goldin

"This list is not complete. Vladimir Posner is an important fellow in all this according to Schwartz and Tinkerman. The fact remains, the iron post of observation, that a bunch of stoned California flakes into UFOs and psychic phenomena had wormed their way into the highest levels of the American ruling class and the Soviet Union and today run the Gorbachev Foundation.

"Did these alleged crypto-Nazi KGB agents get high in the hot tubs of Esalen? There certainly were drugs of all kinds in abundance when I was there!

Was Jan Brewer telling the truth about the Fourth Reich using Arica to influence the New Age?

Brewer was part of the original Esalen group of forty that went to Chile for the first Arica training with Oscar Ichazo1. Arica was big at Esalen at the same time that the Soviets were soaking in the hot tubs....

- Jack Sarfatti, unpulished memoirs (source: Bob Dunn - via ParaNet))


And in conclusion, one more source...

Excerpt from lecture given by Walter Bowart (Operation Mind Control) in 1997-

"It is also one of the persistent rumours that he (Mengele) was brought over in Project Paperclip. We know he worked on a farm in Germany for a few years before the end of WWII. There is the question of the Green programming, and the two proteges he had that were sent to Harvard and all that, and I am sure you have heard of this and more, but there is no proof of it. I keep harping on this - we won´t find any documentation or proof until we repeal the National Security Act. As you begin to research in this thing, and I have been smashing my head against the NSA for 20 years.

They do whatever they want.

There are so many doctors - I guess Colin Ross is writing a book about it - he´s following up on some of our research that we did 25 years ago. He´s gotten the papers of Dr. Estabrooks and Estabrooks knew Milton Erickson, who I think was a great guy myself, but he did work for the government, and they all knew each other and Ewen Cameron comes in, it was a Who´s Who of everybody who worked in the psychiatric mental health profession of that particular generation, my father´s generation. Sociologists as well, it´s been going on for fifty years.

Guys like Robert J. Lifton who is thought of very highly, worked with Dr. John Mack, the alien guy, the UFO guy. They had a partnership - they worked in a little company that was funded by the CIA MKULTRA project. And in national mental health, all the universities were used - you know the story -

Lest you gasp repeatedly throughout this presentation, let me generalize.

Virtually every psychologist, psychiatrist, sociologist, cyberneticist, and so on of that generation previous to mine, were funded either wittingly or unwittingly by the CIA. The CIA through a number of cutout organizations co-opted the entire mental health profession and put it to work on mind control. It´s a hard thing finding people that aren´t part of the game, you know, part of the bad guys.

Here´s John Mack, thanks to Blanche, a little thing about John Mack at Harvard, talking about UFO´s - working with Lifton. And there´s John Shirley, talking about hypnosis. There was a serious study about alien aspects done at MIT and one of the papers in here talks about - they found out that the so-called abductee community was highly dissociative.

So the same thing you find in ritual abuse, you find in mind control, you find in alien abductees. And of course, for the first time now, people are beginning to say "yeah I do remember there was a government guy standing around with those little grey things". And of course how many survivors have been asked not to talk about their "alien experiences"?

About three years ago I asked that question, and just about everyone I could identify as a survivor raised their hand. They have been told not to talk about it, because it discredits their credibility. They are already telling pretty fantastic tales, you know. There is nobody talking about the Lori Lingenfelter story, or even Cathy O´Brien doesn´t talk a lot about her NASA training - but Lingenfelter says that she was trained to be a hostage "witness" - a specially hypnotically trained witness on some kind of an alien ship in a swap deal you know. Incredible stories, but it´s worth checking out.

Here is Dr. Dean who did the comparison accounts with ritual maltreatments and ritual abduction, and this is the appendix E in Operation Mind Control.

It is just amazing to me to find everybody talking about the same thing in slightly different variations."

(End Excerpt)

"KNOWLEDGE IS POWER; WISDOM IS HOW YOU USE THAT POWER."...OSR(onesmartrat)


6

Sharon,

You ask why? That is a good question. Why should this happen to anyone?

If you really would like an answer, I would be happy to respond to you, however, I would like to respond in as thoughtful a manner as possible and right now i do not have the time, I will get back to you on this...

Patricia,

The same is true regarding your inquiries. I may be able to provide some insights...as far I know on this subject and within what you are asking...I do need to be quick on this post, but I will return later and address the issues you raised.


Nicodemus;

You wrote;

"Look at Sharon´s response.
Is that what you´re looking for?"

and...

"o.s.r., If I missed a post elsewhere where you theorized about the possibilities, or if perhaps I took the certainty of your post in a manner other than you intended, I apologize. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your intentions. I don´t know."

I am not LOOKING for anything, I posted a response to this thread, and then a dialogue here took place.

As for my intentions, my intentions are to tell what I know to be true....regardless of whether or not people believe me.

Sharon posted her story here in this forum. Presumably since she opened this thread, she wanted some feedback.

Patricia then related a story from her past relating an episode in her "abduction resume"...in this public forum.

I responded again with I know to be the truth of both situations, based on my own personal knowledge and experience with this..."circumstance".

Hey, I´d rather be an expert in fly-fishing or exquisite French Cuisine...but that´s just not what I happened to know about...unfortunately.

I KNOW about this.

People will generally become upset when their beliefs are challenged. I understand this, it was meant to be that way...that is why this thing is pervasive and insidious.

People want "the story" because it is a safe place for them.

The people in this thread who have described these things have been subjected to unimaginable horrors...unspeakable horrors, all designed to create a mind that can be exploited to the fullest...and one that can never know the truth (or reveal the truth to anybody else).

My intentions are to provide an alternative to the above scenario.

You don´t like my bold statements...fine.

Neither do the people who are responsible for this...

You want aliens...

Oh, there are aliens, believe me...but this isn´t happening the way people think.

Mack´s name came up somewhere earlier in the thread. I responded to that post as well. he is relevant to this discussion because, I am convinced, he is part of the lie.

He uses the programmed beliefs to re-cycle all that garbage about how "spiritual" and extraordinary this all is for mankind.

The only thing spiritual about all this is the spiritual depth and the extraordinary capacity for human beings...CHILDREN, in the case of abductees, to survive and face this with as much courage and nobility that they can find inside them, from the depths of their souls.

Now THATS sonething to talk about, and write about, and go on speaking tours and radio programs and tell people about...THAT is what is extraordinary here.

I hope that answers the majority of your questions. I will be happy to answer any other Q´s you have regarding this subject at hand...or any other.


7

Susano,

You are right in one aspect of your comment on Psychiatrists...they do have the highest suicide rate among dodtors...so that has got to say something. What I was referring to was their standing in legal venues as well as in regard to other societal apparatus. Their also have a standing in media. People regard any one (now this is the general public I am talking about) with a medical degree as being an authority...that is why so many people get screwed by doctors because they are afraid to question them...even in regard to their own health care decisions. Doctor says "take this pill" and people will pop it in their mouths without ever asking what it is or how it works.

Besides doctors are involved in all this...up to their necks in it. Psychiatrists in particular.

I was not recommending Sharon take her grandson to a psychiatrist or even a psychologist. The more phd´s they have, the higher the formal education, the less freedom of thought they have...I was speaking more about someone who could be merely a clinical hypnotist or an experienced NLP practitioner or even a MFCC, but someone who is using other techniques, not the old "talk therapy" routine. You want EFT or TFT or EMDR.

EMDR can have a variable impact, depending on the person, however, it is a tremendous help for people with PTSD and can yield great info in the first few sessions. Unfortunately, with the degree of dissociation involved (with the clients) the practitioner must be skilled enough (experienced enough with that population) to know when it is counter-effective. It often stops working on people who have had these kind of experiences.

The optimum, ofcourse would be to have someone who worked on the other side, such as a programmer, to work with you. This is an anomaly, but it has happened... It is however, not an option for most.

Doctors were/are heavily involved in this...many abductees are taken to hospitals, NOT spaceships...although, spaceships were used as well.

Lots of drugs and technology is used. When you have this experience as a child (when it is always initially done), it is impossible to reconcile within the unprotected mind. The issue becomes one of pure survival. A child´s mind will create AND EXPERIENCE whatever it is asked under that kind of life or death threat (which is what it is designed to be by the "engineers").

This, for some odd reason, reminds me of a Star Trek Next Generations episode I happened to catch a number of years ago. I can´t remember much about the plot ´cept Capt. Picard had been kidnapped and subject to some nasty mind control procedure where the whole drama revolved around his "will power" in resisting the torture and the "suggestion" by the programmer.

Whoever wrote this episode knew their stuff, although it certainly was sanitized for television, there was a general understanding of the psycho-dynamics of the power struggle occurring between Picard and his tormentors.

Picard is repeatedly subjected to intermittent rounds of pain (electronics I think) and then in between is asked to respond to one question. The question has to do with how many lights he (Picard) was seeing (on the ceiling of the room). There were four lights. Every time Picard would say "four lights", the programmer would say "wrong, there are five lights!" and commence the torture protocol again. This scene is repeated over and over again as the ware and tear is obvious on Picard and we think he is going to break any minute...but ofcourse, he doesn´t and continues to insist on there being four lights in the room, not five. And the audience knows this is the correct answer because we see four lights as well (there are only four lights, never five).

Finally, after much of the episode is spent in this mental battle field, some how, Picard is rescued and safe back on board the Enterprise. A comment is made by another crew member regarding his (Picard´s) ability to resist the torment and being able to keep his presence of mind and wits about him under that kind of stress...and Picard stands there and relates how he could have stopped the torment if only he had said there were five lights (not true in reality, but ok for tv-land).

Then, after he tells this, comes the punch line (and the end of the show) where he looks off into the camera, with eyes glazed over and a disturbed look on his face, he confesses, "but you don´t understand, after a while, I did break down. I kept saying there were four lights...but I actually DID SEE five..." (fade to black).

So, Picard somehow had an adult mind capable of recognizing what was happening to him (and in the context the TV script framed it) he was able to retain an oppositional front in the face of overwhelming odds. By not admitting he actually saw five lights, he held a crucial turning point of the power struggle at bay, thus denying his captors their victory over him. By emotionally understanding the structure of that power struggle and the intended outcome, he could recognize that what he was seeing was not real, and in doing so, he could resist the temptation to believe what he was experiencing, thus frustrating his tormentors and retaining ,at least in appearance, some degree of psychological/emotional autonomy.

However, in the real world, where one is not a tv actor/hero with a skillfully written script (which must resolve happily in less than 60 minutes and didn´t include drugs), we, as small children (when this ALWAYS starts) we do not have the same level of awareness and experience in the world to have this kind of superior psychological and emotional "control" in the face of unrelenting (engineered) terror.

We believe our tailored experience because that is how we survive the ordeal. The experience we are convinced as happening takes presidence over the one (experience) that recedes into the shadows of our little minds...where it stays under threat of death if it is ever drawn out into the light.

The truth become anathema to our survival...literally, we will experience that same level of threat (from the original event)quite physically (as well as emotionally) if we dare to go near it. That is why it is so hard for us to find out what really happened...and remember everything.

So the story we were given becomes our safety net...as well as our prison...and it´s self-reinforcing, as we become our own jailers.

There are very few people("therapists/hypnotists/counselors), not involved in this, that have the skills and abilities to assist with this...and they are very very difficult to locate.

It is like looking in a field of glass for a contact lense...if you can´t see what it is you are looking for in the first place, how are you going to recognize someone who might help you find it.

Our mind/body systems are designed to protect us from life-threatening danger...and the people who engineered this, the doctors and spychiatrists understand this from a medical perspective and they use that to their advantage.

And it doesn´t matter to the mind/body if it is an alien or a human creating the story, the child under that kind of duress, will experience the story in order to survive.

Our only defense we have is to endeavor to look behind the story and emotionally recognize that, even though we may see "five lights", we don´t have to believe that the lights ARE ACTUALLY WHAT WE THINK WE EXPERIENCE, AND BELIEVE them to be.

PS. Someone asked what OSR is: OneSmartRat.


8

Sharon;

Yes, I saw the recent remake of Manchurian...I wrote about this in another thread...can´t remember which one.

The original, besides being a better film, has actual subtexture of programming model. Those that made this one had inside knowledge (Sinatra would be a good guess here because of his mob connections as the intel community. the occult and the mob are all interwoven).

The occult aspects are stripped out of the remake; the original has them beautifully woven into the film.

Rent this one on DVD and compare it to the one playing now, Then I will talk more in detail on this if you want to discuss the original film.

The ideas of the film and it´s subtexture are accurate, but the overall story as written is somewhat misleading.


9

Susano,

Sorry, but I had so many questions and comments thrown at me...I don´t know...thought post #79 would "kill two birds with one stone´ so to speak.

Guess it didn´t...I got all caught up in talking about that Star Trek episode....

Anyway, I think you wanted to know some things about me...I am a little hesitant to post them here (maybe I should make out a profile?).

Uh, oh yeah about the mass killings...depends on what and where...Columbine was a set-up or possibly a breakdown and was resulted might have been damage control...but as I recall, at that time, I thought it was a set-up. The Harris kid had an MPD programmed profile and his Dad (Air Force Officer) looked familiar. There were other facts there that gave hints as to behind the scene manipulation.

Same with the Ramsey case in Colorade...I forget the kids name, it was a programming session gone bad...the kid was a MONARCH being groomed as a "presidential model". That´s why the cover-up. the mom is also a multiple.

Uh, ok someone asked me about Strieber and whether his experiences would fall in this category...I am not going to talk about his case here or in any other public forum, unless HE ASKS ME questions about his case personally, THAT WOULDN´T BE POLITE OR ETHICAL.

Uh, ok, I am still workin´ on some other questions and also responding to some criticism.

I´ll be back!


Nicodemus;

I stand by my statements.

Believe ´em or not. I don´t care, not gonna argue with you...waste of time.

This is not some amorphous, random events (abductions) it is very specific and very systematic. There is a structure and a pattern and I know what that is...I know how they do what they do and and I know the mechanics of how this syndrome operates inside the mind/body.

I know what makes these ongoing abductions of people and the repression of their conscious knowledge of it possible...absolutely. We are all human. We all have the same nervous system and brain structure and we have the same predictable patterns of behavior. In this respect, we are no mystery.

Having a mystery can keep a person safe. In that case, they are certainly free to argue for their unsolvable mystery.

However, I choose otherwise in this case, and if people ask me questions, I give answers or I tell them I don´t know. Because I don´t now something doesn´t mean there is no answer.

Patricia has a RHIC_EDOM device implanted, or one very much like it.

Sharon´s grandson is being used and manipulated, as well as Sharon, for purposes well beyond what even Sharon can recognize. He is a talented psychic with allergies (you noticed I asked about the allergies before she mentioned it?) You will also notice that she answered every other question affirmatively. I already KNEW the answers to most of those questions, pal, that´s why I asked those specific questions. I just needed to have her confirm them.

So maybe, I know something about this that you don´t.

There were several things she said in response to my questions. I was able to know exactly what was happening by her answers to those questions because I have a whole different set of references than do you, Nicodemus.

There certainly remain unanswered question within this event, but I can tell the M.O. and the dynamics of what is described, exactly who and why. Sure, there is stuff I don´t know, but I know some basics.

When Sharon first described this event, it sounded like the kid was an independent witness, which I said was an anomaly, why would I say that, well because it doesn´t fit the pattern. If I hadn´t of known there was a pattern, I wouldn´t have suggested it was an anomaly, would I?

Turns out on questioning, it isn´t an anomaly and the kid isn´t an independent witness...in fact, he´s involved in this up to his neck...so to speak...which is typical and which fits into a pattern.

I am sorry about your psychotic episodes, it may very well be in your favor however, because if your have developed a psychotic response to these abductions...or whatever (I am assuming your are referring to abductions due to the nature of this thread)...then you will most certainly be left alone. They don´t mess with people once they become senile or become uncontrollable. Your psychosis may be a good thing, however, I hope it is not an ongoing condition.

Your belief that no one can know the truth is part of what limits you from discovering it.


10

(Nicodemus wrote in Pst#1064)

"I don’t have to take your word on it. I’ve either had a few psychotic episodes or have had some first hand contact experiences with them. I would agree with you to some extent, but would go even further and suggest it is quite possible that no one has the slightest idea of what’s really going on."

(Hey Nicodemus...you´re right, I have no idea what´s goin´ on; it´s ok, you can go back to sleep now. Sweet dreams... )


11

Patricia;

On the issue of this young man with the dark curly hair who appeared in your abductions...you said a psychic friend told you he might be one of your (grown up) missing pregnancies...did you relate to him in this manner BEFORE SHE TOLD YOU THAT?

Also, since you are from the Bay Area and I am also from there until recently, I was wondering who the abduction researcher you talked to is...as I probably would know them...if you don´t mind telling me.


12

Profile; OneSmartRat

(posted; Message Board/ Notes From The Edge; Unknown Country.com on 8/16/04: 3:04 am Central Standard Time)


I am a military intelligence/ occult-trained psychic and intelligence data-analyzer. I was involved in high-end Remote-Accessing (viewing) programs and rapid data analysis and acquisition of intangible-intelligence (information) of potentials (probable outcome scenarios) of theoretical applications in physics and mathematics. I was something of a child prodigy in these areas of application. These programs integrated high-tech science with arcane occult knowledge.

I was “recruited” and taught these things as a child… and exploited beyond belief. Participation was not voluntary, and “no” was not an option. I was also involved in a number of other programs utilizing and adapting my skills and abilities; Army; Intelligence Security and Command (INSCOM) within which I operated in Special Access Programs(SAP)….DEEP BLACK. I was, at an earlier stage (pre-pubescense) involved with a project associated with a cloister of top U.S. scientists who were contracted to the Pentagon. I was also used in data/intel analysis within a group called the Foreign Intelligence Service (FIS).

There are “other” programs and special projects I was involved in, including the “Egypt/Great Pyramid Excavation in 1998” (see post #24 &64;Whitley!!! In Dreamland); information about these programs that would be life-threatening for me to discuss within this forum. (As discussing even this resume is a potential “problem”).

The process used to develop my mind (and contain the information) applied systematic torture to create extremely compartmentalized “clean” states of mind (un-contaminated by reflective consciousness/ ego/beliefs) that were/are capable of extra-ordinary applications; including interfacing with technology designed to facilitate movement of consciousness through time and space and access parts of the human mind (particularly in regards to memory and emotion), and that can be literally “downloaded” onto a audio/visual medium for simultaneous “playback” (recorded onto laser disc format).

I have also had the “alien abduction scenario” experiences…and have, as a result of the programs I was involved with, had contact with, “other” groups and non-human “entities” within time/space and otherwise.

I was also subject to induced “Near-Death Experiences” (NDE’S) at a facility located in the continental U. S.. Among other things, these NDE’s were engineered to enhance psychic ability and performance and create severe-trauma response pathology designed to fragment memory into ultra-secure and “manageable” states of consciousness.

I now train other people to do what I do (remote-accessing/viewing) and I consult in all subject areas of a paranormal nature and mind control/MPD/DID and PTSD cases. I also do intuitive counseling, remote-accessing/viewing (for private consults) and NLP. I write on various subjects related to these issues and have been published in small journals in the past.

I am no longer an "operational" intel asset.


13

HAIL...FELLOW UNKNOWN-COUNTRIANS...!

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS IN REGARDS TO MY POSTS, INCLUDING THE LST ONE ON THIS THREAD(PROFILE). I WOULD LIKE TO ANSWER ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS IN GREAT DETAIL, BUT WILL HAVE TO STRAT BY GIVING THE BEST ANSWER IN AS CONCISE A MANNER AS POSSIBLE WITHIN THE SPACE CONTRA INTS HERE.

I AM USING CAPS SO AS TO DISTINUISH BETWEEN WHAT I AM RESPONDING TO AND THE WUESTIONS, IT IS JUST FOR MY CONVENIENCE AND TO MAKE THE CONTRAST EASIER SO I DON´T HAVE TO ITALISIZE STUFF AND, WELL, I AM NOT USING THIS FEATURE TO SPEAK IN A LOUD (COMPUTER) VOICE OR FOR EMPHASIS..IT´S JUST SO I CAN KEEP ORDER MENTALLY.

I AM SUSPENDING MY OBSESSION WITH PROPER SPELLING AND GRAMMER SINCE I AM TRYING TO GET THROUGH ALL THE QUESTIONS IN A TIMELY MANNER AND GET THIS POSTED. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE SLOPPY TYPO´S AND WHATNOT.




Susi t learn;

smart

thank you for posting that. i hope there are no repercusions.

THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THE SENTIMENT. I REALIZE THAT RESUME IS WAY OUT THERE, HOWEVER, I WAS ASKED WHO I WAS, SO...AT LEAST IN PART, THERE I AM.

now about jon benet...............?

I DO KNOW A LOT ABOUT THE DETAILS OF THE CASE. I HAVE HEARD THINGS FROM "INTHEKNOW PEOPLE" RUNORS, ETC, i DON´T KNOW IF THEY ARE TRUE. ONE INVOLVES A FAMOUS PERSON BEING PRESENT AT THE DEATH BECAUSE HE WAS THERE AS PART OF HER TRAINING AND ALSO TO BE "SERVICED". i DON´T KNOW IF THAT IS ACCURATE. SO I HAVEN´T LOOKED INTO THIS IN DEPTH, EXCEPT THAT, IN MY OBSEVATION, JO BENET PROFILED AS A MONARCH...AND LOOKING AT VIDEOS CLIPS OF HER IT IS EVIDENT IN HER PHSYIOLOGY. ALL WHO HAS BEEN SUBJECTED TO THIS KIND OF SYSTEMATIC TORTURE HAS VERY DESCERNABLE "BODY CUES" IN REGARD TO HOW THEY STAND, HOW THEY WALK, HOW THEY CARRY THEMSELVES, ETC. JON BENET HAD SOMETHING CALLED "PUPPET PROGRAMMING"...A TYPE OF CONDITIONING DEVELOPED BY JOSEPH MENGELE; HE CALLED IT MARRIONETTE PROGRAMMING. IT INVOLVES A STATE IN WHICH THE MIND BOBY CONNECTION BECOMES ARTIFICIALLY SUSPENDED WHILE THE PERSON IN QUESTION ("THE MARRIONETTE") BECOMES COMPLETELY PHYSICALLY MANIPULATED (LIKE A PUPPET) BY THE PUPPETIER; THE PROGRAMMER OR ANYONE ELSE USING THAT "ALTER STATE". tHIS PROGRAMMING IS SO SEVERE IN IT´S IMPACT, BECAUSE OF THE EXCESSIVE USE OF TORTURE, THAT ´RESIDUALS´ OF IT CARRY THROUGH INTO THE PERSON´S PHYSIOLOGY IN THE "HOST STATE" (EVERY DAY PERSONALITY).

AL GORE HAS INDICATIONS OF THIS... BUT I HAVEN´T SPENT MUCH TIME LOOKING AT A LOT OF CLIPS...JUST FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN.

chris b;

This is not some amorphous, random events (abductions) it is very specific and very systematic. There is a structure and a pattern and I know what that is...I know how they do what they do and and I know the mechanics of how this syndrome operates inside the mind/body.

Who, what, why, and how?

HOW?

I TRIED TO GIVE A REFERENCE FOR AT LEAST A VERY BASIC IDEA ABOUT HOW THIS WORKS (IN A VERY SIMPLISTIC EXAMPLE)IN POST 79;THIS THREAD.
I REALIZE THIS REQIURES A MORE DETAILED EXPLANATION...IN THIS PSOT, I WILL TRY TO ANSWER THIS WITH MY ANSWER TO THE "WHAT" QUESTION.

WHO?

IT´S A COMPLEX SUBJECT AND I CAN ONLY ANSWER SO MUCH OF EACH QUESTION IN EACH THREAD. I CAN GIVE ONE WORD ANSWERS (PIG PICTURE) OR I CAN GO INTO DETAIL. IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR FOR TO ADDRESS THESE QUESTIONS HERE AND NOW WITH THE ONE WORD ANSWERS AND THEN, YOU CAN FOCUS ON WHAT AREA OF INTEREST AND WE CAN "CHUNK IT DOWN´, OK CHRIS?

WHO?

WHO IS A VARIETY OF "PLAYERS" WITH OVERLAPPING AND SOMETIME CONTRADICTORY AGENDAS. THERE ARE LATERAL ASSOCIATIONS AND A HIERARCHY OF ASSOCIATIONS. ELEMENTS OF EACH OF THESE INTERMINGLE AND ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

NAMING THEM ALL HERE WOULD BE A LONG POST.

I WILL NAME FOUR CATEGORIES OR GROUPS, BUT REMEMBER THIS IS JUST FOR A GENERAL REFERENCE; NONE OF THESE ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE TO EACH OTHER...WITH SOME DEGREE OF RESTRICTED ACCESS AT THE UPPER ESCELON OF EACH GROUP OF COURSE.

WHO?

1) THE CULT/OCCULT

2) MILITARY/INTEL APPARATUS

3) UNSEEN FORCES AND METAPHYSICAL ELEMENTS

4) OUTSIDE AGENCIES

WHAT?

IN REGARDS TO WHAT THEY DO TO CREATE ABDUCTABLE PEOPLE? THEY USE VARIOUS APPLICATIONS OF OCCULT-BASED TRAUMAS WITH MEDICAL KNOWLDEGE AND TECHNOLOGY AND DRUGS. THE PROCESS IS DESIGNED TO DELIBERATELY CREAT SEVERE DISSOCIATION AND "COMPARTMENTALIZED´ STATE DEPENDANT KNOWLEDGE AND MEMORY CONFINED TO THAT STATE BY NATURAL AND ENGINEED AMNESIAC BARRIERS IN THE MIND OF THE PERSON BEING SUBJECT TO THIS...AND IT ALWAYS, ALEWAYS MUST BE DONE VERY EARLY IN CHILDHOOD BEFORE THE AGE OF FOUR OR FIVE TO BE SUCCESSFUL. THE EARLIER THE BETTER FROM THE STANDPOINT OF SEVERING THE UNDEVELOPEDSELF-IDENTITY/EGO STATE, BEFORE THE BONDS OF SYMBIOTIC PARENT/CHILD EGO IDENTITY ARE PSYCHOLOGICALLY SEVERED AS THE PERSON DEVELOPES THEIR OWN INDEPENDANT SENSE OF SELF. THIS GENERALLY HAPPENS DEVELOPMENTALLY IN HUMAN BEINGS BY THE AGE OF FIVE.

WHY?

IS ALSO COMPLEX QUESTION AND RELATIVE TO WHICH WHO INVOLVED IN WHAT ASPECT OF THIS...THERE IS MORE THAN ONE AGENDA HERE.

OVERALL, BIG PICTURE ANSWER INVOLVES ISSUE OF A THEOLOGICAL/SPIRITUAL NATURE. SORRY, BUT THAT IS WHERE THIS ULTIMATELY ENDS UP REGARDLESS OF WHICH WHO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT...THERE ARE LAYERS OF WHY QUESTIONS AND WHY ANSWERS.

susano;
*hugs smarts*

can be literally “downloaded” onto a audio/visual medium for simultaneous “playback” (recorded onto laser disc format).

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I UNDERSTAND FROM A TECH PERSPECTIVE AS I WAS A PARTICIPNAT INIT´S TESTING/APPLICATIONS AS A HUMAN "INTERFACE". THERE

Palatial quarters at top of Nob Hill 1155 Jones with money provided by Werner Erhard and by Laurence Rockefeller´s close friend Jean Lanier who was the widow of the Chairman Of Stone Webster.

We also got money from US Air Force Training command via the late spook George Koopman - as well as from CIA sources indirectly via the late Hal Chipman.

We were part of the covert psy war op which got high level Soviet officials to Esalen hot tubs where their minds were altered by psychedelics and our boys turned them - hence the fall of the Soviet Empire. Note that Boris Yeltsin came to America with Esalen money before he became President of Russia and that the head of Gorbachev Foundation USA is a former Esalen official."

- Jack Sarfatti ([email protected])

"In view of the present-day Esalen-Erhard-Yeltsin-Gorbachev connections, the 1979 Esalen-UFO connection is significant. Even though I had split with Werner Erhard by late 1977, est´s Raz Ingrasci phoned me and asked me to meet with Jenny O Conner. Raz said that Jenny had been sent to Werner by Sir John Whitmore who had funded Andrija Puharich´s collaborations with Uri Geller back in 1973. Jenny claimed to be channeling messages from "The Nine" - the same extra-terrestrials that Puharich wrote about..... Jenny and The Nine was promptly installed at Esalen, the New Age seminar and training center near Big Sur, California, for quite some time overlapping with visits by physicist the late Heinz Pagels, Congressman Charlie Rose, Ira Einhorn, and high ranking Russians from Georgy Arbatov´s Moscow Institute of US and Canada which was influential during Gorbachev´s watch. Soviet Officials at Esalen in late 70´s and early 80´s: Valentin M.Berezhkov Yuri A. Zamoshkin Andrey A. Kokoshin H.Jushkevitshus Vladimir M. Kuznetsov Victor M. Pogostin Vlail P. Kaznacheyev Joseph Goldin

"This list is not complete. Vladimir Posner is an important fellow in all this according to Schwartz and Tinkerman. The fact remains, the iron post of observation, that a bunch of stoned California flakes into UFOs and psychic phenomena had wormed their way into the highest levels of the American ruling class and the Soviet Union and today run the Gorbachev Foundation.

"Did these alleged crypto-Nazi KGB agents get high in the hot tubs of Esalen? There certainly were drugs of all kinds in abundance when I was there!

Was Jan Brewer telling the truth about the Fourth Reich using Arica to influence the New Age?

Brewer was part of the original Esalen group of forty that went to Chile for the first Arica training with Oscar Ichazo1. Arica was big at Esalen at the same time that the Soviets were soaking in the hot tubs....

- Jack Sarfatti, unpulished memoirs (source: Bob Dunn - via ParaNet))


And in conclusion, one more source...

Excerpt from lecture given by Walter Bowart (Operation Mind Control) in 1997-

"It is also one of the persistent rumours that he (Mengele) was brought over in Project Paperclip. We know he worked on a farm in Germany for a few years before the end of WWII. There is the question of the Green programming, and the two proteges he had that were sent to Harvard and all that, and I am sure you have heard of this and more, but there is no proof of it. I keep harping on this - we won´t find any documentation or proof until we repeal the National Security Act. As you begin to research in this thing, and I have been smashing my head against the NSA for 20 years.

They do whatever they want.

There are so many doctors - I guess Colin Ross is writing a book about it - he´s following up on some of our research that we did 25 years ago. He´s gotten the papers of Dr. Estabrooks and Estabrooks knew Milton Erickson, who I think was a great guy myself, but he did work for the government, and they all knew each other and Ewen Cameron comes in, it was a Who´s Who of everybody who worked in the psychiatric mental health profession of that particular generation, my father´s generation. Sociologists as well, it´s been going on for fifty years.

Guys like Robert J. Lifton who is thought of very highly, worked with Dr. John Mack, the alien guy, the UFO guy. They had a partnership - they worked in a little company that was funded by the CIA MKULTRA project. And in national mental health, all the universities were used - you know the story -

Lest you gasp repeatedly throughout this presentation, let me generalize.

Virtually every psychologist, psychiatrist, sociologist, cyberneticist, and so on of that generation previous to mine, were funded either wittingly or unwittingly by the CIA. The CIA through a number of cutout organizations co-opted the entire mental health profession and put it to work on mind control. It´s a hard thing finding people that aren´t part of the game, you know, part of the bad guys.

Here´s John Mack, thanks to Blanche, a little thing about John Mack at Harvard, talking about UFO´s - working with Lifton. And there´s John Shirley, talking about hypnosis. There was a serious study about alien aspects done at MIT and one of the papers in here talks about - they found out that the so-called abductee community was highly dissociative.

So the same thing you find in ritual abuse, you find in mind control, you find in alien abductees. And of course, for the first time now, people are beginning to say "yeah I do remember there was a government guy standing around with those little grey things". And of course how many survivors have been asked not to talk about their "alien experiences"?

About three years ago I asked that question, and just about everyone I could identify as a survivor raised their hand. They have been told not to talk about it, because it discredits their credibility. They are already telling pretty fantastic tales, you know. There is nobody talking about the Lori Lingenfelter story, or even Cathy O´Brien doesn´t talk a lot about her NASA training - but Lingenfelter says that she was trained to be a hostage "witness" - a specially hypnotically trained witness on some kind of an alien ship in a swap deal you know. Incredible stories, but it´s worth checking out.

Here is Dr. Dean who did the comparison accounts with ritual maltreatments and ritual abduction, and this is the appendix E in Operation Mind Control.

It is just amazing to me to find everybody talking about the same thing in slightly different variations."

(End Excerpt)

"KNOWLEDGE IS POWER; WISDOM IS HOW YOU USE THAT POWER."...OSR(onesmartrat)


6

Sharon,

You ask why? That is a good question. Why should this happen to anyone?

If you really would like an answer, I would be happy to respond to you, however, I would like to respond in as thoughtful a manner as possible and right now i do not have the time, I will get back to you on this...

Patricia,

The same is true regarding your inquiries. I may be able to provide some insights...as far I know on this subject and within what you are asking...I do need to be quick on this post, but I will return later and address the issues you raised.


Nicodemus;

You wrote;

"Look at Sharon´s response.
Is that what you´re looking for?"

and...

"o.s.r., If I missed a post elsewhere where you theorized about the possibilities, or if perhaps I took the certainty of your post in a manner other than you intended, I apologize. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your intentions. I don´t know."

I am not LOOKING for anything, I posted a response to this thread, and then a dialogue here took place.

As for my intentions, my intentions are to tell what I know to be true....regardless of whether or not people believe me.

Sharon posted her story here in this forum. Presumably since she opened this thread, she wanted some feedback.

Patricia then related a story from her past relating an episode in her "abduction resume"...in this public forum.

I responded again with I know to be the truth of both situations, based on my own personal knowledge and experience with this..."circumstance".

Hey, I´d rather be an expert in fly-fishing or exquisite French Cuisine...but that´s just not what I happened to know about...unfortunately.

I KNOW about this.

People will generally become upset when their beliefs are challenged. I understand this, it was meant to be that way...that is why this thing is pervasive and insidious.

People want "the story" because it is a safe place for them.

The people in this thread who have described these things have been subjected to unimaginable horrors...unspeakable horrors, all designed to create a mind that can be exploited to the fullest...and one that can never know the truth (or reveal the truth to anybody else).

My intentions are to provide an alternative to the above scenario.

You don´t like my bold statements...fine.

Neither do the people who are responsible for this...

You want aliens...

Oh, there are aliens, believe me...but this isn´t happening the way people think.

Mack´s name came up somewhere earlier in the thread. I responded to that post as well. he is relevant to this discussion because, I am convinced, he is part of the lie.

He uses the programmed beliefs to re-cycle all that garbage about how "spiritual" and extraordinary this all is for mankind.

The only thing spiritual about all this is the spiritual depth and the extraordinary capacity for human beings...CHILDREN, in the case of abductees, to survive and face this with as much courage and nobility that they can find inside them, from the depths of their souls.

Now THATS sonething to talk about, and write about, and go on speaking tours and radio programs and tell people about...THAT is what is extraordinary here.

I hope that answers the majority of your questions. I will be happy to answer any other Q´s you have regarding this subject at hand...or any other.


7

Susano,

You are right in one aspect of your comment on Psychiatrists...they do have the highest suicide rate among dodtors...so that has got to say something. What I was referring to was their standing in legal venues as well as in regard to other societal apparatus. Their also have a standing in media. People regard any one (now this is the general public I am talking about) with a medical degree as being an authority...that is why so many people get screwed by doctors because they are afraid to question them...even in regard to their own health care decisions. Doctor says "take this pill" and people will pop it in their mouths without ever asking what it is or how it works.

Besides doctors are involved in all this...up to their necks in it. Psychiatrists in particular.

I was not recommending Sharon take her grandson to a psychiatrist or even a psychologist. The more phd´s they have, the higher the formal education, the less freedom of thought they have...I was speaking more about someone who could be merely a clinical hypnotist or an experienced NLP practitioner or even a MFCC, but someone who is using other techniques, not the old "talk therapy" routine. You want EFT or TFT or EMDR.

EMDR can have a variable impact, depending on the person, however, it is a tremendous help for people with PTSD and can yield great info in the first few sessions. Unfortunately, with the degree of dissociation involved (with the clients) the practitioner must be skilled enough (experienced enough with that population) to know when it is counter-effective. It often stops working on people who have had these kind of experiences.

The optimum, ofcourse would be to have someone who worked on the other side, such as a programmer, to work with you. This is an anomaly, but it has happened... It is however, not an option for most.

Doctors were/are heavily involved in this...many abductees are taken to hospitals, NOT spaceships...although, spaceships were used as well.

Lots of drugs and technology is used. When you have this experience as a child (when it is always initially done), it is impossible to reconcile within the unprotected mind. The issue becomes one of pure survival. A child´s mind will create AND EXPERIENCE whatever it is asked under that kind of life or death threat (which is what it is designed to be by the "engineers").

This, for some odd reason, reminds me of a Star Trek Next Generations episode I happened to catch a number of years ago. I can´t remember much about the plot ´cept Capt. Picard had been kidnapped and subject to some nasty mind control procedure where the whole drama revolved around his "will power" in resisting the torture and the "suggestion" by the programmer.

Whoever wrote this episode knew their stuff, although it certainly was sanitized for television, there was a general understanding of the psycho-dynamics of the power struggle occurring between Picard and his tormentors.

Picard is repeatedly subjected to intermittent rounds of pain (electronics I think) and then in between is asked to respond to one question. The question has to do with how many lights he (Picard) was seeing (on the ceiling of the room). There were four lights. Every time Picard would say "four lights", the programmer would say "wrong, there are five lights!" and commence the torture protocol again. This scene is repeated over and over again as the ware and tear is obvious on Picard and we think he is going to break any minute...but ofcourse, he doesn´t and continues to insist on there being four lights in the room, not five. And the audience knows this is the correct answer because we see four lights as well (there are only four lights, never five).

Finally, after much of the episode is spent in this mental battle field, some how, Picard is rescued and safe back on board the Enterprise. A comment is made by another crew member regarding his (Picard´s) ability to resist the torment and being able to keep his presence of mind and wits about him under that kind of stress...and Picard stands there and relates how he could have stopped the torment if only he had said there were five lights (not true in reality, but ok for tv-land).

Then, after he tells this, comes the punch line (and the end of the show) where he looks off into the camera, with eyes glazed over and a disturbed look on his face, he confesses, "but you don´t understand, after a while, I did break down. I kept saying there were four lights...but I actually DID SEE five..." (fade to black).

So, Picard somehow had an adult mind capable of recognizing what was happening to him (and in the context the TV script framed it) he was able to retain an oppositional front in the face of overwhelming odds. By not admitting he actually saw five lights, he held a crucial turning point of the power struggle at bay, thus denying his captors their victory over him. By emotionally understanding the structure of that power struggle and the intended outcome, he could recognize that what he was seeing was not real, and in doing so, he could resist the temptation to believe what he was experiencing, thus frustrating his tormentors and retaining ,at least in appearance, some degree of psychological/emotional autonomy.

However, in the real world, where one is not a tv actor/hero with a skillfully written script (which must resolve happily in less than 60 minutes and didn´t include drugs), we, as small children (when this ALWAYS starts) we do not have the same level of awareness and experience in the world to have this kind of superior psychological and emotional "control" in the face of unrelenting (engineered) terror.

We believe our tailored experience because that is how we survive the ordeal. The experience we are convinced as happening takes presidence over the one (experience) that recedes into the shadows of our little minds...where it stays under threat of death if it is ever drawn out into the light.

The truth become anathema to our survival...literally, we will experience that same level of threat (from the original event)quite physically (as well as emotionally) if we dare to go near it. That is why it is so hard for us to find out what really happened...and remember everything.

So the story we were given becomes our safety net...as well as our prison...and it´s self-reinforcing, as we become our own jailers.

There are very few people("therapists/hypnotists/counselors), not involved in this, that have the skills and abilities to assist with this...and they are very very difficult to locate.

It is like looking in a field of glass for a contact lense...if you can´t see what it is you are looking for in the first place, how are you going to recognize someone who might help you find it.

Our mind/body systems are designed to protect us from life-threatening danger...and the people who engineered this, the doctors and spychiatrists understand this from a medical perspective and they use that to their advantage.

And it doesn´t matter to the mind/body if it is an alien or a human creating the story, the child under that kind of duress, will experience the story in order to survive.

Our only defense we have is to endeavor to look behind the story and emotionally recognize that, even though we may see "five lights", we don´t have to believe that the lights ARE ACTUALLY WHAT WE THINK WE EXPERIENCE, AND BELIEVE them to be.

PS. Someone asked what OSR is: OneSmartRat.


8

Sharon;

Yes, I saw the recent remake of Manchurian...I wrote about this in another thread...can´t remember which one.

The original, besides being a better film, has actual subtexture of programming model. Those that made this one had inside knowledge (Sinatra would be a good guess here because of his mob connections as the intel community. the occult and the mob are all interwoven).

The occult aspects are stripped out of the remake; the original has them beautifully woven into the film.

Rent this one on DVD and compare it to the one playing now, Then I will talk more in detail on this if you want to discuss the original film.

The ideas of the film and it´s subtexture are accurate, but the overall story as written is somewhat misleading.


9

Susano,

Sorry, but I had so many questions and comments thrown at me...I don´t know...thought post #79 would "kill two birds with one stone´ so to speak.

Guess it didn´t...I got all caught up in talking about that Star Trek episode....

Anyway, I think you wanted to know some things about me...I am a little hesitant to post them here (maybe I should make out a profile?).

Uh, oh yeah about the mass killings...depends on what and where...Columbine was a set-up or possibly a breakdown and was resulted might have been damage control...but as I recall, at that time, I thought it was a set-up. The Harris kid had an MPD programmed profile and his Dad (Air Force Officer) looked familiar. There were other facts there that gave hints as to behind the scene manipulation.

Same with the Ramsey case in Colorade...I forget the kids name, it was a programming session gone bad...the kid was a MONARCH being groomed as a "presidential model". That´s why the cover-up. the mom is also a multiple.

Uh, ok someone asked me about Strieber and whether his experiences would fall in this category...I am not going to talk about his case here or in any other public forum, unless HE ASKS ME questions about his case personally, THAT WOULDN´T BE POLITE OR ETHICAL.

Uh, ok, I am still workin´ on some other questions and also responding to some criticism.

I´ll be back!


Nicodemus;

I stand by my statements.

Believe ´em or not. I don´t care, not gonna argue with you...waste of time.

This is not some amorphous, random events (abductions) it is very specific and very systematic. There is a structure and a pattern and I know what that is...I know how they do what they do and and I know the mechanics of how this syndrome operates inside the mind/body.

I know what makes these ongoing abductions of people and the repression of their conscious knowledge of it possible...absolutely. We are all human. We all have the same nervous system and brain structure and we have the same predictable patterns of behavior. In this respect, we are no mystery.

Having a mystery can keep a person safe. In that case, they are certainly free to argue for their unsolvable mystery.

However, I choose otherwise in this case, and if people ask me questions, I give answers or I tell them I don´t know. Because I don´t now something doesn´t mean there is no answer.

Patricia has a RHIC_EDOM device implanted, or one very much like it.

Sharon´s grandson is being used and manipulated, as well as Sharon, for purposes well beyond what even Sharon can recognize. He is a talented psychic with allergies (you noticed I asked about the allergies before she mentioned it?) You will also notice that she answered every other question affirmatively. I already KNEW the answers to most of those questions, pal, that´s why I asked those specific questions. I just needed to have her confirm them.

So maybe, I know something about this that you don´t.

There were several things she said in response to my questions. I was able to know exactly what was happening by her answers to those questions because I have a whole different set of references than do you, Nicodemus.

There certainly remain unanswered question within this event, but I can tell the M.O. and the dynamics of what is described, exactly who and why. Sure, there is stuff I don´t know, but I know some basics.

When Sharon first described this event, it sounded like the kid was an independent witness, which I said was an anomaly, why would I say that, well because it doesn´t fit the pattern. If I hadn´t of known there was a pattern, I wouldn´t have suggested it was an anomaly, would I?

Turns out on questioning, it isn´t an anomaly and the kid isn´t an independent witness...in fact, he´s involved in this up to his neck...so to speak...which is typical and which fits into a pattern.

I am sorry about your psychotic episodes, it may very well be in your favor however, because if your have developed a psychotic response to these abductions...or whatever (I am assuming your are referring to abductions due to the nature of this thread)...then you will most certainly be left alone. They don´t mess with people once they become senile or become uncontrollable. Your psychosis may be a good thing, however, I hope it is not an ongoing condition.

Your belief that no one can know the truth is part of what limits you from discovering it.


10

(Nicodemus wrote in Pst#1064)

"I don’t have to take your word on it. I’ve either had a few psychotic episodes or have had some first hand contact experiences with them. I would agree with you to some extent, but would go even further and suggest it is quite possible that no one has the slightest idea of what’s really going on."

(Hey Nicodemus...you´re right, I have no idea what´s goin´ on; it´s ok, you can go back to sleep now. Sweet dreams... )


11

Patricia;

On the issue of this young man with the dark curly hair who appeared in your abductions...you said a psychic friend told you he might be one of your (grown up) missing pregnancies...did you relate to him in this manner BEFORE SHE TOLD YOU THAT?

Also, since you are from the Bay Area and I am also from there until recently, I was wondering who the abduction researcher you talked to is...as I probably would know them...if you don´t mind telling me.


12

Profile; OneSmartRat

(posted; Message Board/ Notes From The Edge; Unknown Country.com on 8/16/04: 3:04 am Central Standard Time)


I am a military intelligence/ occult-trained psychic and intelligence data-analyzer. I was involved in high-end Remote-Accessing (viewing) programs and rapid data analysis and acquisition of intangible-intelligence (information) of potentials (probable outcome scenarios) of theoretical applications in physics and mathematics. I was something of a child prodigy in these areas of application. These programs integrated high-tech science with arcane occult knowledge.

I was “recruited” and taught these things as a child… and exploited beyond belief. Participation was not voluntary, and “no” was not an option. I was also involved in a number of other programs utilizing and adapting my skills and abilities; Army; Intelligence Security and Command (INSCOM) within which I operated in Special Access Programs(SAP)….DEEP BLACK. I was, at an earlier stage (pre-pubescense) involved with a project associated with a cloister of top U.S. scientists who were contracted to the Pentagon. I was also used in data/intel analysis within a group called the Foreign Intelligence Service (FIS).

There are “other” programs and special projects I was involved in, including the “Egypt/Great Pyramid Excavation in 1998” (see post #24 &64;Whitley!!! In Dreamland); information about these programs that would be life-threatening for me to discuss within this forum. (As discussing even this resume is a potential “problem”).

The process used to develop my mind (and contain the information) applied systematic torture to create extremely compartmentalized “clean” states of mind (un-contaminated by reflective consciousness/ ego/beliefs) that were/are capable of extra-ordinary applications; including interfacing with technology designed to facilitate movement of consciousness through time and space and access parts of the human mind (particularly in regards to memory and emotion), and that can be literally “downloaded” onto a audio/visual medium for simultaneous “playback” (recorded onto laser disc format).

I have also had the “alien abduction scenario” experiences…and have, as a result of the programs I was involved with, had contact with, “other” groups and non-human “entities” within time/space and otherwise.

I was also subject to induced “Near-Death Experiences” (NDE’S) at a facility located in the continental U. S.. Among other things, these NDE’s were engineered to enhance psychic ability and performance and create severe-trauma response pathology designed to fragment memory into ultra-secure and “manageable” states of consciousness.

I now train other people to do what I do (remote-accessing/viewing) and I consult in all subject areas of a paranormal nature and mind control/MPD/DID and PTSD cases. I also do intuitive counseling, remote-accessing/viewing (for private consults) and NLP. I write on various subjects related to these issues and have been published in small journals in the past.

I am no longer an "operational" intel asset.


13

HAIL...FELLOW UNKNOWN-COUNTRIANS...!

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS IN REGARDS TO MY POSTS, INCLUDING THE LST ONE ON THIS THREAD(PROFILE). I WOULD LIKE TO ANSWER ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS IN GREAT DETAIL, BUT WILL HAVE TO STRAT BY GIVING THE BEST ANSWER IN AS CONCISE A MANNER AS POSSIBLE WITHIN THE SPACE CONTRA INTS HERE.

I AM USING CAPS SO AS TO DISTINUISH BETWEEN WHAT I AM RESPONDING TO AND THE WUESTIONS, IT IS JUST FOR MY CONVENIENCE AND TO MAKE THE CONTRAST EASIER SO I DON´T HAVE TO ITALISIZE STUFF AND, WELL, I AM NOT USING THIS FEATURE TO SPEAK IN A LOUD (COMPUTER) VOICE OR FOR EMPHASIS..IT´S JUST SO I CAN KEEP ORDER MENTALLY.

I AM SUSPENDING MY OBSESSION WITH PROPER SPELLING AND GRAMMER SINCE I AM TRYING TO GET THROUGH ALL THE QUESTIONS IN A TIMELY MANNER AND GET THIS POSTED. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE SLOPPY TYPO´S AND WHATNOT.




Susi t learn;

smart

thank you for posting that. i hope there are no repercusions.

THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THE SENTIMENT. I REALIZE THAT RESUME IS WAY OUT THERE, HOWEVER, I WAS ASKED WHO I WAS, SO...AT LEAST IN PART, THERE I AM.

now about jon benet...............?

I DO KNOW A LOT ABOUT THE DETAILS OF THE CASE. I HAVE HEARD THINGS FROM "INTHEKNOW PEOPLE" RUNORS, ETC, i DON´T KNOW IF THEY ARE TRUE. ONE INVOLVES A FAMOUS PERSON BEING PRESENT AT THE DEATH BECAUSE HE WAS THERE AS PART OF HER TRAINING AND ALSO TO BE "SERVICED". i DON´T KNOW IF THAT IS ACCURATE. SO I HAVEN´T LOOKED INTO THIS IN DEPTH, EXCEPT THAT, IN MY OBSEVATION, JO BENET PROFILED AS A MONARCH...AND LOOKING AT VIDEOS CLIPS OF HER IT IS EVIDENT IN HER PHSYIOLOGY. ALL WHO HAS BEEN SUBJECTED TO THIS KIND OF SYSTEMATIC TORTURE HAS VERY DESCERNABLE "BODY CUES" IN REGARD TO HOW THEY STAND, HOW THEY WALK, HOW THEY CARRY THEMSELVES, ETC. JON BENET HAD SOMETHING CALLED "PUPPET PROGRAMMING"...A TYPE OF CONDITIONING DEVELOPED BY JOSEPH MENGELE; HE CALLED IT MARRIONETTE PROGRAMMING. IT INVOLVES A STATE IN WHICH THE MIND BOBY CONNECTION BECOMES ARTIFICIALLY SUSPENDED WHILE THE PERSON IN QUESTION ("THE MARRIONETTE") BECOMES COMPLETELY PHYSICALLY MANIPULATED (LIKE A PUPPET) BY THE PUPPETIER; THE PROGRAMMER OR ANYONE ELSE USING THAT "ALTER STATE". tHIS PROGRAMMING IS SO SEVERE IN IT´S IMPACT, BECAUSE OF THE EXCESSIVE USE OF TORTURE, THAT ´RESIDUALS´ OF IT CARRY THROUGH INTO THE PERSON´S PHYSIOLOGY IN THE "HOST STATE" (EVERY DAY PERSONALITY).

AL GORE HAS INDICATIONS OF THIS... BUT I HAVEN´T SPENT MUCH TIME LOOKING AT A LOT OF CLIPS...JUST FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN.

chris b;

This is not some amorphous, random events (abductions) it is very specific and very systematic. There is a structure and a pattern and I know what that is...I know how they do what they do and and I know the mechanics of how this syndrome operates inside the mind/body.

Who, what, why, and how?

HOW?

I TRIED TO GIVE A REFERENCE FOR AT LEAST A VERY BASIC IDEA ABOUT HOW THIS WORKS (IN A VERY SIMPLISTIC EXAMPLE)IN POST 79;THIS THREAD.
I REALIZE THIS REQIURES A MORE DETAILED EXPLANATION...IN THIS PSOT, I WILL TRY TO ANSWER THIS WITH MY ANSWER TO THE "WHAT" QUESTION.

WHO?

IT´S A COMPLEX SUBJECT AND I CAN ONLY ANSWER SO MUCH OF EACH QUESTION IN EACH THREAD. I CAN GIVE ONE WORD ANSWERS (PIG PICTURE) OR I CAN GO INTO DETAIL. IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR FOR TO ADDRESS THESE QUESTIONS HERE AND NOW WITH THE ONE WORD ANSWERS AND THEN, YOU CAN FOCUS ON WHAT AREA OF INTEREST AND WE CAN "CHUNK IT DOWN´, OK CHRIS?

WHO?

WHO IS A VARIETY OF "PLAYERS" WITH OVERLAPPING AND SOMETIME CONTRADICTORY AGENDAS. THERE ARE LATERAL ASSOCIATIONS AND A HIERARCHY OF ASSOCIATIONS. ELEMENTS OF EACH OF THESE INTERMINGLE AND ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

NAMING THEM ALL HERE WOULD BE A LONG POST.

I WILL NAME FOUR CATEGORIES OR GROUPS, BUT REMEMBER THIS IS JUST FOR A GENERAL REFERENCE; NONE OF THESE ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE TO EACH OTHER...WITH SOME DEGREE OF RESTRICTED ACCESS AT THE UPPER ESCELON OF EACH GROUP OF COURSE.

WHO?

1) THE CULT/OCCULT

2) MILITARY/INTEL APPARATUS

3) UNSEEN FORCES AND METAPHYSICAL ELEMENTS

4) OUTSIDE AGENCIES

WHAT?

IN REGARDS TO WHAT THEY DO TO CREATE ABDUCTABLE PEOPLE? THEY USE VARIOUS APPLICATIONS OF OCCULT-BASED TRAUMAS WITH MEDICAL KNOWLDEGE AND TECHNOLOGY AND DRUGS. THE PROCESS IS DESIGNED TO DELIBERATELY CREAT SEVERE DISSOCIATION AND "COMPARTMENTALIZED´ STATE DEPENDANT KNOWLEDGE AND MEMORY CONFINED TO THAT STATE BY NATURAL AND ENGINEED AMNESIAC BARRIERS IN THE MIND OF THE PERSON BEING SUBJECT TO THIS...AND IT ALWAYS, ALEWAYS MUST BE DONE VERY EARLY IN CHILDHOOD BEFORE THE AGE OF FOUR OR FIVE TO BE SUCCESSFUL. THE EARLIER THE BETTER FROM THE STANDPOINT OF SEVERING THE UNDEVELOPEDSELF-IDENTITY/EGO STATE, BEFORE THE BONDS OF SYMBIOTIC PARENT/CHILD EGO IDENTITY ARE PSYCHOLOGICALLY SEVERED AS THE PERSON DEVELOPES THEIR OWN INDEPENDANT SENSE OF SELF. THIS GENERALLY HAPPENS DEVELOPMENTALLY IN HUMAN BEINGS BY THE AGE OF FIVE.

WHY?

IS ALSO COMPLEX QUESTION AND RELATIVE TO WHICH WHO INVOLVED IN WHAT ASPECT OF THIS...THERE IS MORE THAN ONE AGENDA HERE.

OVERALL, BIG PICTURE ANSWER INVOLVES ISSUE OF A THEOLOGICAL/SPIRITUAL NATURE. SORRY, BUT THAT IS WHERE THIS ULTIMATELY ENDS UP REGARDLESS OF WHICH WHO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT...THERE ARE LAYERS OF WHY QUESTIONS AND WHY ANSWERS.

susano;
*hugs smarts*

can be literally “downloaded” onto a audio/visual medium for simultaneous “playback” (recorded onto laser disc format).

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I UNDERSTAND FROM A TECH PERSPECTIVE AS I WAS A PARTICIPNAT INIT´S TESTING/APPLICATIONS AS A HUMAN "INTERFACE". THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF MIVIES THAT FOCUS ON THIS THEME, THE BEST KNOWN BEING "BRAINSTORM".
THE TECH AS I RECALL IS OVER TWENTY YEARS OLD (THE MEMORY), BUT I AM SURE THAT IT IS MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED NOW. YOU HAVE GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT ALL OF THE TECH THAT THE PUBLIC HAS, THE MILIRTAY HAS IS FORTY TO FIFTY YEARS BEFORE THE PEOPLE GET IT, IN SOME CASES SHORTER, IN SOME CASES LONGER.

THE TECH INVOLVES APPLACATIONS OF FOURIER MATHEMATICS "TRANSLATIONS" AND HOLOGRAPHIC LAZER CONFIGURATIONS AND SCIENCE THAT I CANNOT, IN THIS STATE OF MIND ADEQUETLY DESCRIBE TO YOU.

WHEN I WAS INVLOVED WITH THIS STUFF THEY NEEDED A HUMAN INTERFACE BETWEEN THE TECHNOLOGY AND THE "SUBJECT" (HUMAN BEING BEING "DOWNLOADED") SO THEY HAD TO USE HIGHLY TRAINED PSYCHICS LIKE ME. THERE WERE ALOT OF WIRES AND CONNECTIONS TO US AND THE TECH AND TO MONITOR THE PROCESS.

THERE IS A DARK SIDE TO THIS THAT IS UGLY...VERY UGLY...AND UNFORGIVABLE.

THE PROCESS WAS ONLY USEABLE WHILE THE SUBJECT WAS/IS IN A HIGHLY EMOTIONAL STATE AND THAT USUALLY MEANS A CONTROLLED MEASURE OF TORTURE, OR, IN THIS CASE HAVING AN "END OF LIFE SCENARIO". I WOULD RATHER NOT SAY MORE, UNLESS ASKED ABOUT THIS; IT IS A VERY DISTURBING ASPECT AND UNPLEASENT TO REMEMBER. NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE DOWNSIDE OF BEING A SUPER PSYCHIC IS THAT YOU CARRY SOMEONE´S MEMORIES INSIDE YOU ALONG WITH ALL THE ATTENDANT EMOTIONS OF THEIR PAST, PLUS THE EMOITIONS AND THE PSYCHOLOGICAL TERRORS DURING THE PPROCESS INVOLVING THE "DOWNLOADING".


!!! smarts, how the heck is this done?

SEE ABOVE.


russadams;

OSR, Would you be willing to discuss any of your contacts with the non-human entities? Personally, I am particularly interested in whatever light you can shed on what are known as the greys? But it´s all fascinating!

THE GREYS... ARE NOT A BIOLOGICAL SPECIES. THEY ARE ARTIFICIALLY CREATED...´ROBOTS´ IF YOU WILL.THEY WERE DESIGNED SOLELY FOR THE ROLE THEY PLAY WITHIN THE ABDCUTION ENCOUNTER.

THE GREYS IN ABDUCTIONS SCENARIOS ARE OFTEN OTHER ABDUCTEES/CHILDREN DRESSED UP IN COSTUMES.
DEPENDS ON WHO IS DOING THAT ABDCUTION AT ANY POINT IN TIME.

THERE ARE OVERLAPPING AGENDAS AND STAGED DRAMAS ALONG WITH OTHER SITUATIONS. ONE MASKS ITSELF AS THE OTHER FOR VARIOUS AND OBVIOUS REASONS.

MY OTHER NON-HUMAN CONTECTS ARE MUCH MORE INTERESTING. I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THOSE; THERE ARE SOME VARIETY AND PERHAPS THE MOST INTERSTING INVOLVED MY ENCOUNTERS IN REMOTE VIEWING SESSIONS ALONG WITH A PHYSICAL ENCOUNTER WITH BOTH A NON-HUMAN ´ETHEREL´ DISCARNATE INTELLIGENCE AND TWO OTHER TYPES THAT I WOULD HAVE TO QUANTIFY AS NOT FITTING INTO ANY KNOWN HUMAN REFERNECE...THE CLOSEST REFERENCE FOR THESE BEINGS WOULD "ANGELIC", IN THIS CASE "INCARNATE". ASK ME ABOUT THIS AGAIN LATER, THOUGH, RIGHT NOW I HAVE SO MANY OTHER QUESTIONS HERE TO ANSWER.

Maia;

First of all, OSR: One hell of a resume you got there. Have you had a continuous memory of your involvement or did you have to drag it out of your subconscious? I personally would like to know more for selfish reasons.

NO, IF BY "CONTINUOS" YOU MEAN IN TERMS OF A CONTINUOUS STATE OF MIND. I HAVE IN MY CONSCIOUSNESS MIND/AWARE MIND AS I TALK TO YOU A CONTIUOS STEAM OF REFERENCES (BIT OF MEMORIES0 THAT HAVE SURFACED OR BEEN BROUGHT UP INTO MY AWARENESS, HOWEVER, AS I FOCUS ON EACH ONE, I DESCEND INCREASINGLY INTO THAT SAME STATE(ALTER) OF MIND WHERE THE MEMORY OCCURRED AND IS ASSOCIATED. BECAUSE I HAVE CO-CONSCIOUSNESS WITH MANY OF THESE STATES(ALTERS) TO VARYING DEGRESS, I CAN SAY THAT IN THAT SENSE, NOW THAT I HAVE THE AWARENESS OF THESE OTHER PARTS OF MY MIND AND MY LFE, THAT THERE IS SOME DEGREE OF CONTINUITY. HOWEVER, BEFOE ONE MAKES THATBREAK THOUGH THEY WILLNOT HAVE THAT, THEY WILL EXPERIENCE THOSE OTHER STATES (FROM A CONSCIOUS/AWARE REFERENCE) AS BEING COMPLETELY "MISSING´ ( AS IN MISSINGTIME) OR IF THEY DO REMEMBER, IT WILL SEEEM VERY DREAMLIKE. THE DREAMLIKE NATURE IS A RESIDUAL SIDE EFEECT OF BEING ABLE TO SEPERATE THOSE EXPERIENCES AND SEPERATE ONE´S SELF (CONSCIOUS KNOWN EGO SELF) FROM THE SITUATION FROM WHICH THE MEMORY ORIGINATES. THIS IS CLASSIC EXTREME DISSOCIATION PATHOLOGY WHEN IT MATCHES IT´S STRUCTURE TO THE ANALOGUE (REMEMBERED AND UNREMEMBERED STORY/MEMORY OF THE EVENTS). IT IS AN ABSOLUTE MARKER IN TERMS OF IDENTIFYING THE STRUCTURE OF THE PSYCHOLOGICAL PROCESS AND PHYSIOLOGIAL EXPERIENCE AND HOW IT LEAVES IT´S "IMPRINT" IN THE PERSON´S LIFE.

Bob friedman;

wow! onesmartrat, ´ ever concidering contacting Whitley, or Noorey, or Bell for interview? i think you have much to say , and would like to see you write a book soon.

I THINK I WILL HAVE TO WRITE THE BOOK BEFORE I GET INVITED TO THE INTERVIEW. ART BELL WON´T TOUCH THIS TOPIC UBFORTUANATELY. NOOREY WOULD BE A WASTE OF TIME; HE´S AN INTEL ASSET (A "PLANT") ...SORRY FOLKS, TAKE A LOOK AT HIS BACKROUND AND LISTEN TO THE WAY HE CONDUCTS HIMSELF AS COMPARED TO STRIEBER OR BELL.

BESIDES, I THINK HE IS RATHER DIM AND HAVE REFERRED TO HIM AS ´THE TED KNIGT´ OF RADIO (IE., MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW...TED).

susi t learn;

i have my own version of what went down. i always believed jon benet was used as a ´pass around sex object´. and that dear old dad was a part of it. when this first broke, there was a report of the father being on videotape of coming out of a known child porn shop in amsterdam.

SHE WAS NOT A PASS AROUND; BUT SHE WAS SUBJECT TO SEXUAL ABUSE VERY SYSTEMATICALLY BECAUSE THAT IS PART OF THE PROCESS, I AM SORRY FOLKS, BUT THAT IS PART OF HOW YOU CREATE THIS LEVEL OF SEVERE DISSOCIATION. IT IS STANDARD PRACTICE, PARTICULARY IN THE EARLY STAGES. I HAVE WORKED WITH MANY ABDUCTEES, WHO, AFTER SOME DEGREE OF CLEVER TRICKS TO GET AROUND THE LAYERS OF "OVERLAYED´ MEMORIES, IT ALWAYS SUFACES...BUT IT IS NOT ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH ANY PARENTAL ABUSE. MANY PARENTS ARE CONSCIOUS PARTICIPANTS IN A CERTAIN CATEGORY, BUT WITH ABDCUTESS THERE SEEMS TO BE A GREATER VARIETY OF PEOPLE; SOME WITH KNOWN ABUSE HISTORIES, OTHERS WITH NO FAMILIAL ABUSE BUT REPRESSED SEXUAL ABUSE WHIC CAN BE DIRECTLY ATTRIBUTED AS ORIGINATING A RESULT
OF THEIR "CONTACT"EXPEIENCES.

I REALIZE THAT STATEMENT WILL OPEN UP A CAN OF WORMS AND EVOKE NEGTIVE RESPONSES, I HESITATED TO MENTION IT FOR THAT REASON, BUT I SAID I WOULD TELL YOU WHAT I KNOW, WHAT I CAN. THE REST IS UP TO YOU TO CONSIDER THE POSSIBILY OR REFUSE TO CONSIDER IT.

russadams;

Oh, that´s so sad if that´s what happened with the Ramsey case. That´s just so sick. And I agree with Susi about the mother--I always thought she was nuts too. And for awhile I actually thought the brother did it.

At this point I´m more interested in some of the other stuff that OneSmartRat might be able to tell us.

I WILL TALK ABOUT WHATEVER YOU LIKE AS BEST I CAN.

susano;

smarts, how did you break free of your handlers?

HAVE NOT ACCOMPLISHED THAT YET...WORKIN ON IT.

When someone manages to do that, don´t they (handlers) get pissed off, and come after them?

THEY COME AFTER THE PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE, OR THREATEN TO, OR INMY CASE, THEY MAKE EXAMPLES OF OTHERS TO SEND A MESSAGE TO YOU (AND ANYONE LIKE YOU THNKING OF DOIND THE SAME THING). THEY CAN MANIPULATE YOU IN THE DISSOCIATED "ALTER STATES´...AND THREATEN YOU AND CONDITION YOU AND TROTUE YOU INTO COMPLIANCE...BUT IF YOU ARE AWARE OF THAT, YOU CAN CHOOSE TO DEFY THEM IN YOUR EVVERYDAY LIFE...AND SOMETIMES...USUALLY ALL THE TIME, YOU PAY THE CONSEQUENCES. IN TERMS OF THREATS TO OTHER PEOPLE ASSOCIATED WITH ME IN SOME MANNER, THERE HAVE BEEN TWO DEATHS SO FAR. ONE WAS A MURDER THAT MADE THE FRONT PAGES OF THE NEWSPAPERS.

FREEDOM IS ACTING INCONGUENCY WITH ONE´S TRUE HEART; ONE´S INTENTIONS IN THE FACE OF WHTEVER CONSEQUENCES THAT MAY COME AS A RESULT OF THAT ACT OR INTENTION.

PISSING THEM OFF IS PROBABLY ONE OF MY GREATEST PLEASURES IN LIFE.
(I AM IRISH, A REDHEAD...AND A TAURUS!)

I would imagine these people are real heavies.

THERE ARE LEVELS OF POWER AND RESPONSIBILITY. THERE ARE MANY WELL KNOWN (TO THE PUBLIC) PEOPLE INVOLVED INTHIS BOTH IN HISTORY AND PRESENT DAY.
I´VE BEEN ON AIRFORCE II AT LEAST ONCE.


Also, do you still have an implant? My feeling is that anyone with one should get it out.

IT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY I AHVE MANY, THE ONES IN KNOW ABOUT ARE A LITTLE HARD TO GET ANY ONE TO REMOVE. SOMEWHAT IMPRACTICAL IN THIS ERA.ATTEMPTING TO GET AN IMPLANT REMOVED WOULD PROBABLY RESULT IN GETTING ME THROWN INTO A PSYCH WARD. BEEN THERE;DONE THAT;GOT THE HALIDOL. NO THANKS.

I, too, was thinking you ought to be interviewed on Dreamland. If this were the only thread on the board, I´d be here.

WOW! YOUR MOUTH TO WHITLEY´S EAR. I GUESS I BETTER STRAT ON THAT BOOK!!!

susano;

We´ll have to start a Jon Benet thread.

OH, NO LET´S NOT, I CAN BARELY MANAGE TO ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS ON THIS ONE!

russadams;

Maia, I´d say you´re a pretty smart rat, yourself

I AGREE. THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT CONCISE DESCRITIONOF MONARCH, THANK YOU MAIA, I COULD NOT HAVE DONE BETTER.

Aztec;

"Wow. Look at this criteria. Just as I suspected.

So, if not Mack, who are the credible therapists working in this field? How do you know who to trust?" - Quan Yin


QUAN YIN´S QUESTION WENT UNANSWERED IN MY LATER POSTS.
TRUST IS AN INPORTATNT AND VITAL ISUE FOR ALL POEPLE, PARTICULRY IN THIS POPULATION WHERE SUCH SEVERE VIOLATIONS OF TRUST OCCURRED SO EARLY IN LIFE.

IT´S VERY HARD TO FIND SOEMONE WHO YOU CAN WORK WITH WHO KNOWS THEE STUFF AND IS DEDCATED TO YOU AND YOUR INTENT. (TOO MNAY SO-CALLED ABDCUTION THERAPSITS AHVE MADE NAMES FOR THEMSELVES OFF THE BACKS OF THEIR CLIENTS (AND SOME HAVE MADE QUITE A PROFIT), IW OULD STY THE HECK AWAY FROM ANYONE WHO BILL THEMSELVES AS ´ABDCUTION THERAPIST´..MOST ARE INIT FOR THEIR OWN PERSINAL GAIN...WHAT KNOWLDEGE THEY CAN SQUEEZE FROMTHEIR CLIENTS OR HOW THEY CAN WRITE ANOTHER BOOK AND GET ON INTERVIEW SHOWS WITH THE LATEST CASE.

A GOOD MAJORITY OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE HAD THEIR OWN ABUSE/TRAUMA ALIEN ABDUCTIONS SCENARIOS THEMSELVES BUT ARE NOT YET AWARE AND HAVE NOT COME TO TERMS WITH THEIR OWN STUFF.

I AHVE MET MANY OF THE ´USUAL SUSPECT´ AND HAVE FOUND THEM WANTING.

I HAVE SYSTEM THAT ONE CAN USE TO DETERMINE AHEAD OF TIME IF THE THERAPIST INQUESTION WILL BENEFIT THEM AS OPPOSED TO VICE-VERCA.

I WILL NOT MENTIONS NAMES IN THIS FORUM OF PEOPLE I WOULD RECOMMEND WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION, AT PRESENT, THE LIST IS EXTREMELY SMALL.

I WOULD EXTEND THAT INFOR IN A PERSONAL NOTE EMAIL WITHIN TIS FORUM IF I RECIEVED ONE REQUESTING IT...THIS SITE HAS AN ´INSIDE E-MAIL/MESSAGE FEATURE DOESN´T IT?


John Mack has uncovered the truth about the aliens, for those with eyes to see. But if you want somebody you can trust, trust yourself

I APPRECIATE AND RESPECT YOUR OPINION HERE, I WOULD BE GALD TO DISCUSS WITH YOU FURTHER, BUT I AM NOT SURE WHAT "TRUTH" YOU ARE REFERRING TO IN REGARD TO MACK...???

I AGREE WE MUST TRUST OURSELVES, HOWEVER, PEOPLE WITH THESE KIND SOF BACKROUNDS (ABDCUTIONS) OFTEN HAVE TROUBLE WITH THAT ONE, BECAUSE IN MANY CASES PSYCHOLOGICALLY WTIHIN THEIR EMOTIONAL WORLD, THEY CAN´T DELINEATE BETWEN THEMSELVES AND OTHERS, IN PATICULAR THAT OF THEIR ALIEN ABDCUTORS. THIS IS ONE OF THE MORE INSIDIOUS ASPECT´S OF MACK´S PUBLIC ASSERTIONS REGARDING "ALIEN IDENTITIES" AND POEPL DISCOVERING THEIR "ALIEN SELVES"....I KNOW THIS GUY KNOWS BETTER, HE HAS TO, LOOK AT HIS BACKGROUND AND TELL ME THAT AS A PSYCHITRAIST WHO KNOWS ALL ABOUT DISSOCIATION AND THE PSYCHOLOGICAL DEPENDANCY THAT DEVELOPES BETWEEN ABUSE VICTIMS AND THEIR PERPETRAITORS AND TRAUMATIZED PEOPLE WHO, IN ORDER TO SURVIVE MUST CO-IDENTIFY WITH THOSE IN POWER (IN CONTROL OF THE SITUATION). IT IS A NON-STARTER THAT MACK IS DELIBERATELY HIDING THE STRUCUTRE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING BY REINFORCING THE "STORY´...ALIEN IDENTITIES IS A BELIEF NOT AN EMPIRACAL FACT, YET HE TALKS LIKE IT IS...HE TAKLKS LIKE AN MATUER OR SOME NAIVE RESEARCHER WITH NO BACKGROUND IN PSYCHIATRIC PRCTICE, YET HE PULLS UP THAT RESUME SELCTIVELY INORDER TO GIVE WEIGHT AND AUTHENTICITY TO WHAT HE IS SAYING.

HIS ASSOCIATION WITH THE HUMAN POTENTIAL GROUP IS INITSELF A RED FLAG. I MEAN LOOK WHO THIS GUY IS COLLABORATING WITH; (JUST TWO EXAPMLES) A SOVIET DOCTOR WHO DESIGNS BRAIN IMPLANTS FOR PURPOSES OF BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION AND AN "EX-MILITARY INTELLIGENCE OPERATED OBSESSED WITH CREATING SUPER SOLDIERS (THROUGHTHUSE OF TECH AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TECHNIQUES) WHO STILL APPEARS TO BE WORKINFG FOR MILITRAY INTEL.
I SUGEGEST , IF YOU HVEN´T YET LOKED AT MY POST 76 THIS THREAD, YOU MIGHT AS THERE IS BACKGROUND INFO ON MACK AND HIS "FRIENDS/ASSOCIATES".
OR LOOK INTO IT YOURSELF, THE INFORMATION IS OT THERE AND CAN BE CROSSED VERIIFIED
TRUST YOURSELF YES, BUT DON´T ISOLATE YOURSELF FROM INFORMATION THAT MIGTH BENEFIT YOU. TRUST YOUR SELF TO BE OPEN TO PSSIBILITIES VEN IN OPPOSITION TO YOUR OWN BELIEFS..THAT´S WHAT KEEPS US HONEST WITH OUR SELVES.

THANKS FOR HAVING THE GUTS TO DISAGREE IN THIS TOPIC ON MACK.

Lapis;

Oh the stench of old, black negative Atlantis opposing our here and now! Just shatter the mind, crush the heart, fragment the personality, shove co-axial cable up their as#*, add some distorted left hand path knowledge and, ta da! Same tired old crap again a la negative Aquarius/Uranus energy timeline.

INTERESTING YOU SHOULD MENTION THE CO-AXIAL CABLE UP THEIR AS# AND ATLANTIS IN THE SAME BREATH.
THERE IS ACTUALLY QUITE LITERLLY SOME TRUTH IN THAT METAPHOR...SOME LITERAL TRUTH...

THERE WERE ´BEINGS´ AT THE TIME (ALTHOUGH THE PLACE DIDN´T CALL ITSELF "ATLANTIS") WHO WERE ACTUALLY NON-COPOREAL BUT APPEARED TO BE INCARNATE PHYSICALLY. THEY WERE QUITE POWERFUL METAPHYSICALLY AND COULD MANIPULTE PHYSICAL SPACE AS THEY WERE PRESENT IN TI, BUT YHEY COULD NOT FEEL PHYSICAL PLEASURE EXCEPT BY WAY OF ´PROXY´ THROUGH THE USE OF INTERFACING TECHNOLOGY WITH THE HUMAN NERVOUS SYSTEM.

THEY HAD TECHNOLOGY THAT ALLOWED THEM TO LITERALLY PLUG INTO THE HUMAN SPINAL COLUMN AND THUS, PROVOKE OR EVOKE AN EXPERIENCE THAT THE HUMAN WOULD RESPOND TO AND THEM THEY (THESE BEINGS) WOULD FEEL THAT EXPERIENCE PHYSICALLY THROUGH THE "CABLE" APPLIANCE ATTACHED AT THE BASE OF THE HUMAN´S SPINE.

THE KICKED HERE IS THAT ONE OF THE SIDE-EFFECTS OF THIS PROCESS ALLOWED THE HUMAN BRIEF TRANSITORY (BUT REMEMBERED AS EXPERIENTAL DATA)) ACCESS INTO THE ´MIND/CONSCIOUSNESS/MEMORY/KNOWLEDGE´ OF THE BEING.

KIND OF LIKE HAVING YOU CONSCIOUSNESS JUMP STARTED INTO HYPERSPACE!

THE HUMAN´S THAT SURVIVED THIS PROCESS (MANY WERE KILLED IMMEDIATELY AFTER BECAUSE OF THE SIDE-EFFECT OF SUPER KNOWLEDGE)HAD A GOOD DEGREE MORE MENTAL SUPERIORITY, AWARENESS AND KNOWLEDGE THAN THE HUMANS THAT HADN´T HAD THAT DONE TO THEM.

THIS IS ONE OF THE WAYS, BIBLICALLY, ONE CAN LOOK AT THE DISCUSSIONS OF ANGELIC CONTACT WITH MAN HAVING AN IMPACT (ACCELERATED EVOLUTION OF MANKIND THRU INTERACTION WITH "ANGELIC HOSTS".) IT WAS BASICALLY THE RESULT, IN MANY CASES, OF THE LITERAL SIDE-EFFECT OF A PURIENT SEXUAL ACT...AND COMPLETELY UNINTEND IN THE "ANGEL´S" PART.

UH, JUST IN CASE YOU WERE INTERESTED...


14

Aztec;

"If you´re going to lay claim to a young boy´s soul then you´d better have some straight answers instead of the runaround you´re feeding these people."

Please advise in what post did I lay claim to anyone´s soul?

I will answer any question you ask. What would you like to ask me Aztec?

I don´t think I have tried to give people the "runaround" as I have answered all of the questions that I could answer honestly, and I was even accused of making "bold statements" by one inquiring mind.

Please give an example to back up your statement reprinted above regarding "giving people the runaround".

Also, since I politely responded to your question regarding Mack, I would appreciate a response to mine; Exactly what "truth" has John Mack revealed about the "aliens"?

Thanks for your interest in my postings.

All the rest of you terrific and interesting folks...I will be back later on to respond to yours in kind.


15

chris b,

Not sure what you mean by "construct" in regard to your last post. Please explain so I can better understand what you ae asking.

The "GREYS" are mchanical...albeit sophisticated machinery... I can speak more about this if you like.

As for me being used by my "Handlers".

Well, I can assure you, if there is nothing else you believe in my posts, I am not doing what they would like me to do. I have several "handlers"...depending on which group we are talking about.

The reason that I am not "operational" any more in terms of being used in field is because I found out who I was..and I had the ability to "see the man behind the curtain"; I knew it from childhood, but I had to believe the lies because I thought that was the way to survive.

Trust me, chris b, the last thing anyone of these "groups" want is for me to be doing what I am doing here.

Sharon´s grandson has a chance to break free of this, because of his level of awareness....his abductions might be able to be stopped. I was simply trying to let Sharon know this; I can understand the dynamics in her response.

You offer information to people; it is up to them how they use it...or choose not to...

You have good questions and a probing mind.

Quan Yin;

Your post intrigues me. I have something to talk to you about later. Must run now (I am a night owl...not a day person, so I will return in the evening).


16

Sharon;

"I do have a problem when others try to tell others what their experiences "really" are, unless one is intimately involved in that person´s experience and has been given the "OK" to reveal that facet part of their shared experiences..."

????????????????????!

Let´s try a hypothetical approach here (since all my other ones have failed);

If you had told us that your grandson was having visions of going to Iraq and then that he came over one evening while you were supposedly sleeping and spoke to his grandfather, and then went outside and saw military vehicles go down the street and perhaps a helicopter flying over the house...(with a roommate for a witness) and then it turns out that he is actually in the military. It might be that one could presume, based solely on the information being accurate as you provided, that this boy had been to military boot camp at some point in the past and was currently serving in the armed forces.

And if that being the proper presumption, then would it not be likely, that based on other information such as what kind of uniform he is wearing, what kind of patches he has on it, what kind of weapons he has been trained to use, the color of his military beret, etc., etc., to extrapolate exactly what branch of the service he serves in, whether or not he is attached to special operations, and what his specialty he has, as far as his specific training and how he is being trained to serve in what function valuable to his military unit?

And, IF you had described all this to someone who had been in the military and gone through similar experiences and they then said to you, well, "you know your grandson has been to military boot camp and it sounds from the description you provided that he is in special services and in particular he is an Army Rangers and Army Rangers are trained to"....etc., etc., etc.,

You would probably have much less doubt reagarding the veracity of my extrapolation, as it was pretty clear, using common knowledge, personal experience, and reasoned thinking, that your grandson´s training and function and experiences within the military, is in itself, are not independent and mutually exclusive from the general training and experiential knowledge of others who may also have had, in general and specifically, the same experience via military service.

The main issue here, as I see it, is that instead of being in the military as in the previous hypothetical example, your grandson is an "alien abductee" and thus being so, we have the issue of having to deal with the subject of "aliens".

Exit logical thought and reasoned evaluation of evidence in a methodical and systematic examination of events, human behavior (as well as alien behavior), forensic pathology,stated intention vs. outcome, motivation,structure,examination of fact versus hearsay, and the tangible and hypothetical outcomes; real and intended.

Enter the issue of emotion, belief and doubt.

"Aliens!"

The word itself evokes a whole different emotional and psychological response in terms of a striking example of how one´s thinking is actually altered and driven by one´s beliefs and the emotions evoked by those beliefs when they are threatened...and how one´s beliefs will dictate their own evaluation of stated facts...completely absent of all of the criteria that would ordinarily be used in a logical and sequential analysis of known data.

Ofcourse, I cannot tell you WHAT you grandson´s own personal expereince is in terms of how he personally relates, processes and thinks about his own experience and I never tried to tell you that...what I attempted to do (and failed miserably) was to inform you as to the nature of the events that you described as occurring around him and provide information as to the actual causes, probable participants and their intentions toward him, the nature of their relationship, and then I supplied you with a possibly helpful solution that would:

a) answer some unanswered questions and

b) give an alternative solution that might well be a source of more information and at the same time help assist a young man in trouble (failing academically, and with severe allergies that threaten his immune system and are not pleasent for him...and possibly help remove him from a dangerous situation).

THAT´S ALL I DID here initially within this thread.

I looked primarily at the STRUCTURAL dynamic of what was described and used the content of the information you provided as a navigation tool to help me understand exactly what, based on my knowledge and understanding AND PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of this "subject matter", was/is occurring with your grandson.

Based on that, and the responses that occurred as a result, as this discussion evolved into one in which I, having been asked to reveal my "credentials", and having done so in a rather honest and forthright manner (I think, considering the circumstances), I have become subject to accusations that range from being party to "genocide" ( I am still baffled by that one), being guilty of deliberate misinformation, being a spook on the CIA payroll, plagiarism of other sources on the internet, "giving people the runaround",being the "John Titor of the ufo community" (who I have never even heard of) being a potential nut case, and, my own personal favorite; "laying claims on that boy´s soul"...(which in itself smacks of an occult reference that makes me wonder about the personal resume of the progenitor who delivered THAT accusation).

All because the subject here (or sub-subject, as your grandson is primary)is "aliens"...and not miltitary service or participation in 4-H activities, or religious affiliation, or gang activities or drug abuse or child molestation or...yatta yatta yatta.

How quick we are to protect our beloved beliefs by serperating ourselves from each other through emotionally contrived quantifications of each other´s motivations and intentions towards one another, simply based on information that is provided that threatens the veracity of those most preciously held beliefs.

And we can´t figure out why humanity is is the current mess it´s in, or that we are in a perpetual state of war...?

WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMIES...

(But I digress here; excuse me)

Now, I do understand and I fully realized when these posts began to evolve in this manner, that the discussion would become "colorful" and that people´s response would be...passionate, and THAT´S OK...REALLY, I UNDERSTAND AND WELCOME THOSE RESPONSES even the most critical ones (especially those) because they stimulate thoughtful reflections, provoke deep insights and intriguing and potentially groundbreaking epiphanies (in terms of personal and collective revelations).

The problem, in terms of some frustration I am cureently experiencing with all this, is in regard to what I feel is people here (perhaps you as well) having lost sight of the most pressing issue here...in terms of your own personal response to that of your grandson´s situation and it´s impact on him...and his welfare being left behind as an important focus in all of this...at least in respect to the power you have in terms of making a positive difference in his life because of your own personal experience and knowledge as a result of that experience.

Knowledge is power; wisdom is HOW you apply that knowledge TO YOUR THOUGHTS, YOUR DEEDS AND YOUR INTENTIONS.

THE BOY NEEDS HELP. ASSISTANCE WHICH, YOU, BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN PERSONAL INVOLVEMENT IN THIS DRAMA AND LACK OF REQUISITE SKILLS REQUIRED TO RENDER THAT ASSITENCE, CANNOT PROVIDE.

However, because of that very same experience, you do have the power to assert some influence that might change the very course of his life and, in the long-term big picture of all of this...might very well save his life.

Unless you would like to see him further progress into continued difficulties in his life, his health problems increasing because of an over-stressed and compromised immune system, his academic status decline further, his psyhological/emotional world be held in a continually confusing and negatively re-cycling "drama" state impacting him and those around him; all because "his alien friends" who seem to enjoy the pleasure and entertainment of his company so much that he continues to be involved in an unsolvable, "but wonderful" (and exciting) drama intended to "save mankind" and give him lofty knowledge and spiritual attainment, I suggest that you do what you can to intervene in a life-enhancing pro-grandson approach as opposed to trying to figure out whether or not I am intending to deceive you (as well as others) and, or TELL HIM WHAT HIS (OR YOUR) EXPERIENCE OF THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

One doesn´t have to be a rocket scientist,or,as the case may be unfortunately, an ex-mil/ingellience psychic data analyzing secret occult child prodigy "sockpuppet" (I liked this one!) to figure out that this whole drama occurring within your grandson´s life (and apparently yours as well) is impacting him in a non-productive, negative, and destructive manner.

It´s destructive to his physical wel-being, his pyscho-social relationships, his emotional integration of all this (which by the way is intimately entangled with his auto-immune response via his "allergies"), his intellectual/academic potential and whatever future he intends to pursue in terms of career and personal success within the frame of healthy human endeavours and a life-enhancing productive and personally rewarding life.

You doubt that statement? I refer you to read all about the public accounts of the personal life histories of "alien abdcutees" and the miseries that have impacted their lives...and the lives of their families. And you can start, if you haven´t already, by reading Mr. Whitley Strieber´s personal auto-biographical accounts as reflected within a good majority of his published works on this subject.

Since HE has some standing within this community (and I don´t), and I haven´t heard anyone accusing him of being on a CIA payroll or dolling out disinformation, you may then realize exactly what my intentions are towards you and your grandson. Read how this whole thing has impacted his wel-being and his family and his health all the way from his early childhood to present day.

Then, you won´t have to either trust or not trust me or my information, you´ll will have you own.

I am sure you have your own beliefs and ideas regarding you own personal history to reflect on in regard to this matter, albeit colored by outside and insidious influences; you certainly know what is at stake here.

WHICH BEGS THE QUESTION NO ONE HAS ASKED HERE;

Exactly WHAT is your grandson getting out of all this...other than failing grades, severe auto-immune response (in terms of his allergic chrisis´s) and distraction...and apparently alot of inter-family, and now extended social circle, drama?

I could have carried on a dialogue with you that involved things like terms being thrown around like "threshold marker", for example, as I do know where at least one of the "bookends" here is, in terms of the first (initiating ) threshold marker is within the frame of your grandsons experience within THAT EVENT. I could have told you where I think the second where threshold marker "bookend" might have occurred. I could have told you the exact moment in time as to EXACTLY WHEN (THE PRECISE MOMENT IN TIME) when his "state change" occurred... and when he was cued into a depth of trance level, and what the markers were to indicate that he had no choice in regards to his actions up to a certain point in time and how he may have "porpoised" up from a delta-dirux state into an ultra theta/alpha state and regained more than the memory which he has (you have) related...and how, if you were to look in the right place within his consciousness using the requisite linguistic and physiological CUEING as a point of navigation...you could help him regain the entire knowledge and "truth" (HIS TRUTH;NOT MINE) of the event THAT BEGAN THIS ENTIRE DISCUSSION.

But since you wouldn´t have known what the heck I was talking about (why would you?) or not too many other here,I chose what I thought would be a more helpful route of useful information.

Unfortunately, I did not deliver the information in a way that could be considered without the battering rams of my diatribe beating against the opposing fortress of belief-driven emotion-laden communication-stopping magical-thinking-constructed fear-driven vision-blinding hearing-impaired emotionally-paralyzing freeze-frame paradigm of "kill the messenger" because the message is too-disturbing-to-be-allowed-to-exist-or considered-as-an-alternative to the "official" story...syndrome.

(which by the way you didn´t really have a very big part in to your credit, you have actually been very open and polite in that regard)...

NOW THAT I HAVE READ YOU THE RIOT ACT...AND PERHAPS MADE A POINT I SHOULD HAVE MADE MANY POSTS AGO...I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT I HAVE TREMENDOUS EMPATHY FOR WHAT YOU AND YOUR GRANDSON ARE ENDURING AND HAVE ENDURED AND I DO NOT QUESTION YOUR LOVE AND DESIRE FOR ALL THE BEST IN HIS LIFE.

I AM SIMPLY GIVING YOU THE BEST INFORMATION I CAN, IN A WAY THAT MIGHT CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY, FOR MAKING A DIFFERENCE HERE THAT MIGHT LITERALLY HELP CHANGE THE FUTURE AND GIVE A YOUNG MAN A CHANCE AT A HEALTHY AND NORMAL...AND "FREE" LIFE.

I HAVE A GIFT, YOU SEE...AND THAT GIFT IS ALSO A CURSE...AND THE CURSE IS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF THINGS THAT CANNOT BE SUBSTANTIATED UNTIL AFTER THEY OCCUR, THUS CREATING BOTH A PRACTICAL AND ETHICAL DILEMMA FOR ONE WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN THE POWER OF THE POSSIBILITIES OF TRANSFORMATION AND REDEMPTION...AND A CHOICE BEING MADE WHERE THERE PREVIOUSLY HAS BEEN NONE.

I SEE HIS FUTURE (quite literally)...AND THE ONLY POWER I HAVE HERE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, I HAVE EXERCISED WITHIN THIS FORUM...THE REST IS UP TO YOU.

Having said all THAT (and sure to reap the repercussions of it!)....stick a fork in me; I am done...!

I WILL RETURN...after a period of rest and recuperation (I am ill at present) to answer all remaining questions asked and once and for all prove my case for what I have said is the true nature of this phenomenon within these posts.

-OSR

TESTING/APPLICATIONS AS A HUMAN "INTERFACE". THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF MIVIES THAT FOCUS ON THIS THEME, THE BEST KNOWN BEING "BRAINSTORM".
THE TECH AS I RECALL IS OVER TWENTY YEARS OLD (THE MEMORY), BUT I AM SURE THAT IT IS MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED NOW. YOU HAVE GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT ALL OF THE TECH THAT THE PUBLIC HAS, THE MILIRTAY HAS IS FORTY TO FIFTY YEARS BEFORE THE PEOPLE GET IT, IN SOME CASES SHORTER, IN SOME CASES LONGER.

THE TECH INVOLVES APPLACATIONS OF FOURIER MATHEMATICS "TRANSLATIONS" AND HOLOGRAPHIC LAZER CONFIGURATIONS AND SCIENCE THAT I CANNOT, IN THIS STATE OF MIND ADEQUETLY DESCRIBE TO YOU.

WHEN I WAS INVLOVED WITH THIS STUFF THEY NEEDED A HUMAN INTERFACE BETWEEN THE TECHNOLOGY AND THE "SUBJECT" (HUMAN BEING BEING "DOWNLOADED") SO THEY HAD TO USE HIGHLY TRAINED PSYCHICS LIKE ME. THERE WERE ALOT OF WIRES AND CONNECTIONS TO US AND THE TECH AND TO MONITOR THE PROCESS.

THERE IS A DARK SIDE TO THIS THAT IS UGLY...VERY UGLY...AND UNFORGIVABLE.

THE PROCESS WAS ONLY USEABLE WHILE THE SUBJECT WAS/IS IN A HIGHLY EMOTIONAL STATE AND THAT USUALLY MEANS A CONTROLLED MEASURE OF TORTURE, OR, IN THIS CASE HAVING AN "END OF LIFE SCENARIO". I WOULD RATHER NOT SAY MORE, UNLESS ASKED ABOUT THIS; IT IS A VERY DISTURBING ASPECT AND UNPLEASENT TO REMEMBER. NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE DOWNSIDE OF BEING A SUPER PSYCHIC IS THAT YOU CARRY SOMEONE´S MEMORIES INSIDE YOU ALONG WITH ALL THE ATTENDANT EMOTIONS OF THEIR PAST, PLUS THE EMOITIONS AND THE PSYCHOLOGICAL TERRORS DURING THE PPROCESS INVOLVING THE "DOWNLOADING".


!!! smarts, how the heck is this done?

SEE ABOVE.


russadams;

OSR, Would you be willing to discuss any of your contacts with the non-human entities? Personally, I am particularly interested in whatever light you can shed on what are known as the greys? But it´s all fascinating!

THE GREYS... ARE NOT A BIOLOGICAL SPECIES. THEY ARE ARTIFICIALLY CREATED...´ROBOTS´ IF YOU WILL.THEY WERE DESIGNED SOLELY FOR THE ROLE THEY PLAY WITHIN THE ABDCUTION ENCOUNTER.

THE GREYS IN ABDUCTIONS SCENARIOS ARE OFTEN OTHER ABDUCTEES/CHILDREN DRESSED UP IN COSTUMES.
DEPENDS ON WHO IS DOING THAT ABDCUTION AT ANY POINT IN TIME.

THERE ARE OVERLAPPING AGENDAS AND STAGED DRAMAS ALONG WITH OTHER SITUATIONS. ONE MASKS ITSELF AS THE OTHER FOR VARIOUS AND OBVIOUS REASONS.

MY OTHER NON-HUMAN CONTECTS ARE MUCH MORE INTERESTING. I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THOSE; THERE ARE SOME VARIETY AND PERHAPS THE MOST INTERSTING INVOLVED MY ENCOUNTERS IN REMOTE VIEWING SESSIONS ALONG WITH A PHYSICAL ENCOUNTER WITH BOTH A NON-HUMAN ´ETHEREL´ DISCARNATE INTELLIGENCE AND TWO OTHER TYPES THAT I WOULD HAVE TO QUANTIFY AS NOT FITTING INTO ANY KNOWN HUMAN REFERNECE...THE CLOSEST REFERENCE FOR THESE BEINGS WOULD "ANGELIC", IN THIS CASE "INCARNATE". ASK ME ABOUT THIS AGAIN LATER, THOUGH, RIGHT NOW I HAVE SO MANY OTHER QUESTIONS HERE TO ANSWER.

Maia;

First of all, OSR: One hell of a resume you got there. Have you had a continuous memory of your involvement or did you have to drag it out of your subconscious? I personally would like to know more for selfish reasons.

NO, IF BY "CONTINUOS" YOU MEAN IN TERMS OF A CONTINUOUS STATE OF MIND. I HAVE IN MY CONSCIOUSNESS MIND/AWARE MIND AS I TALK TO YOU A CONTIUOS STEAM OF REFERENCES (BIT OF MEMORIES0 THAT HAVE SURFACED OR BEEN BROUGHT UP INTO MY AWARENESS, HOWEVER, AS I FOCUS ON EACH ONE, I DESCEND INCREASINGLY INTO THAT SAME STATE(ALTER) OF MIND WHERE THE MEMORY OCCURRED AND IS ASSOCIATED. BECAUSE I HAVE CO-CONSCIOUSNESS WITH MANY OF THESE STATES(ALTERS) TO VARYING DEGRESS, I CAN SAY THAT IN THAT SENSE, NOW THAT I HAVE THE AWARENESS OF THESE OTHER PARTS OF MY MIND AND MY LFE, THAT THERE IS SOME DEGREE OF CONTINUITY. HOWEVER, BEFOE ONE MAKES THATBREAK THOUGH THEY WILLNOT HAVE THAT, THEY WILL EXPERIENCE THOSE OTHER STATES (FROM A CONSCIOUS/AWARE REFERENCE) AS BEING COMPLETELY "MISSING´ ( AS IN MISSINGTIME) OR IF THEY DO REMEMBER, IT WILL SEEEM VERY DREAMLIKE. THE DREAMLIKE NATURE IS A RESIDUAL SIDE EFEECT OF BEING ABLE TO SEPERATE THOSE EXPERIENCES AND SEPERATE ONE´S SELF (CONSCIOUS KNOWN EGO SELF) FROM THE SITUATION FROM WHICH THE MEMORY ORIGINATES. THIS IS CLASSIC EXTREME DISSOCIATION PATHOLOGY WHEN IT MATCHES IT´S STRUCTURE TO THE ANALOGUE (REMEMBERED AND UNREMEMBERED STORY/MEMORY OF THE EVENTS). IT IS AN ABSOLUTE MARKER IN TERMS OF IDENTIFYING THE STRUCTURE OF THE PSYCHOLOGICAL PROCESS AND PHYSIOLOGIAL EXPERIENCE AND HOW IT LEAVES IT´S "IMPRINT" IN THE PERSON´S LIFE.

Bob friedman;

wow! onesmartrat, ´ ever concidering contacting Whitley, or Noorey, or Bell for interview? i think you have much to say , and would like to see you write a book soon.

I THINK I WILL HAVE TO WRITE THE BOOK BEFORE I GET INVITED TO THE INTERVIEW. ART BELL WON´T TOUCH THIS TOPIC UBFORTUANATELY. NOOREY WOULD BE A WASTE OF TIME; HE´S AN INTEL ASSET (A "PLANT") ...SORRY FOLKS, TAKE A LOOK AT HIS BACKROUND AND LISTEN TO THE WAY HE CONDUCTS HIMSELF AS COMPARED TO STRIEBER OR BELL.

BESIDES, I THINK HE IS RATHER DIM AND HAVE REFERRED TO HIM AS ´THE TED KNIGT´ OF RADIO (IE., MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW...TED).

susi t learn;

i have my own version of what went down. i always believed jon benet was used as a ´pass around sex object´. and that dear old dad was a part of it. when this first broke, there was a report of the father being on videotape of coming out of a known child porn shop in amsterdam.

SHE WAS NOT A PASS AROUND; BUT SHE WAS SUBJECT TO SEXUAL ABUSE VERY SYSTEMATICALLY BECAUSE THAT IS PART OF THE PROCESS, I AM SORRY FOLKS, BUT THAT IS PART OF HOW YOU CREATE THIS LEVEL OF SEVERE DISSOCIATION. IT IS STANDARD PRACTICE, PARTICULARY IN THE EARLY STAGES. I HAVE WORKED WITH MANY ABDUCTEES, WHO, AFTER SOME DEGREE OF CLEVER TRICKS TO GET AROUND THE LAYERS OF "OVERLAYED´ MEMORIES, IT ALWAYS SUFACES...BUT IT IS NOT ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH ANY PARENTAL ABUSE. MANY PARENTS ARE CONSCIOUS PARTICIPANTS IN A CERTAIN CATEGORY, BUT WITH ABDCUTESS THERE SEEMS TO BE A GREATER VARIETY OF PEOPLE; SOME WITH KNOWN ABUSE HISTORIES, OTHERS WITH NO FAMILIAL ABUSE BUT REPRESSED SEXUAL ABUSE WHIC CAN BE DIRECTLY ATTRIBUTED AS ORIGINATING A RESULT
OF THEIR "CONTACT"EXPEIENCES.

I REALIZE THAT STATEMENT WILL OPEN UP A CAN OF WORMS AND EVOKE NEGTIVE RESPONSES, I HESITATED TO MENTION IT FOR THAT REASON, BUT I SAID I WOULD TELL YOU WHAT I KNOW, WHAT I CAN. THE REST IS UP TO YOU TO CONSIDER THE POSSIBILY OR REFUSE TO CONSIDER IT.

russadams;

Oh, that´s so sad if that´s what happened with the Ramsey case. That´s just so sick. And I agree with Susi about the mother--I always thought she was nuts too. And for awhile I actually thought the brother did it.

At this point I´m more interested in some of the other stuff that OneSmartRat might be able to tell us.

I WILL TALK ABOUT WHATEVER YOU LIKE AS BEST I CAN.

susano;

smarts, how did you break free of your handlers?

HAVE NOT ACCOMPLISHED THAT YET...WORKIN ON IT.

When someone manages to do that, don´t they (handlers) get pissed off, and come after them?

THEY COME AFTER THE PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE, OR THREATEN TO, OR INMY CASE, THEY MAKE EXAMPLES OF OTHERS TO SEND A MESSAGE TO YOU (AND ANYONE LIKE YOU THNKING OF DOIND THE SAME THING). THEY CAN MANIPULATE YOU IN THE DISSOCIATED "ALTER STATES´...AND THREATEN YOU AND CONDITION YOU AND TROTUE YOU INTO COMPLIANCE...BUT IF YOU ARE AWARE OF THAT, YOU CAN CHOOSE TO DEFY THEM IN YOUR EVVERYDAY LIFE...AND SOMETIMES...USUALLY ALL THE TIME, YOU PAY THE CONSEQUENCES. IN TERMS OF THREATS TO OTHER PEOPLE ASSOCIATED WITH ME IN SOME MANNER, THERE HAVE BEEN TWO DEATHS SO FAR. ONE WAS A MURDER THAT MADE THE FRONT PAGES OF THE NEWSPAPERS.

FREEDOM IS ACTING INCONGUENCY WITH ONE´S TRUE HEART; ONE´S INTENTIONS IN THE FACE OF WHTEVER CONSEQUENCES THAT MAY COME AS A RESULT OF THAT ACT OR INTENTION.

PISSING THEM OFF IS PROBABLY ONE OF MY GREATEST PLEASURES IN LIFE.
(I AM IRISH, A REDHEAD...AND A TAURUS!)

I would imagine these people are real heavies.

THERE ARE LEVELS OF POWER AND RESPONSIBILITY. THERE ARE MANY WELL KNOWN (TO THE PUBLIC) PEOPLE INVOLVED INTHIS BOTH IN HISTORY AND PRESENT DAY.
I´VE BEEN ON AIRFORCE II AT LEAST ONCE.


Also, do you still have an implant? My feeling is that anyone with one should get it out.

IT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY I AHVE MANY, THE ONES IN KNOW ABOUT ARE A LITTLE HARD TO GET ANY ONE TO REMOVE. SOMEWHAT IMPRACTICAL IN THIS ERA.ATTEMPTING TO GET AN IMPLANT REMOVED WOULD PROBABLY RESULT IN GETTING ME THROWN INTO A PSYCH WARD. BEEN THERE;DONE THAT;GOT THE HALIDOL. NO THANKS.

I, too, was thinking you ought to be interviewed on Dreamland. If this were the only thread on the board, I´d be here.

WOW! YOUR MOUTH TO WHITLEY´S EAR. I GUESS I BETTER STRAT ON THAT BOOK!!!

susano;

We´ll have to start a Jon Benet thread.

OH, NO LET´S NOT, I CAN BARELY MANAGE TO ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS ON THIS ONE!

russadams;

Maia, I´d say you´re a pretty smart rat, yourself

I AGREE. THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT CONCISE DESCRITIONOF MONARCH, THANK YOU MAIA, I COULD NOT HAVE DONE BETTER.

Aztec;

"Wow. Look at this criteria. Just as I suspected.

So, if not Mack, who are the credible therapists working in this field? How do you know who to trust?" - Quan Yin


QUAN YIN´S QUESTION WENT UNANSWERED IN MY LATER POSTS.
TRUST IS AN INPORTATNT AND VITAL ISUE FOR ALL POEPLE, PARTICULRY IN THIS POPULATION WHERE SUCH SEVERE VIOLATIONS OF TRUST OCCURRED SO EARLY IN LIFE.

IT´S VERY HARD TO FIND SOEMONE WHO YOU CAN WORK WITH WHO KNOWS THEE STUFF AND IS DEDCATED TO YOU AND YOUR INTENT. (TOO MNAY SO-CALLED ABDCUTION THERAPSITS AHVE MADE NAMES FOR THEMSELVES OFF THE BACKS OF THEIR CLIENTS (AND SOME HAVE MADE QUITE A PROFIT), IW OULD STY THE HECK AWAY FROM ANYONE WHO BILL THEMSELVES AS ´ABDCUTION THERAPIST´..MOST ARE INIT FOR THEIR OWN PERSINAL GAIN...WHAT KNOWLDEGE THEY CAN SQUEEZE FROMTHEIR CLIENTS OR HOW THEY CAN WRITE ANOTHER BOOK AND GET ON INTERVIEW SHOWS WITH THE LATEST CASE.

A GOOD MAJORITY OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE HAD THEIR OWN ABUSE/TRAUMA ALIEN ABDUCTIONS SCENARIOS THEMSELVES BUT ARE NOT YET AWARE AND HAVE NOT COME TO TERMS WITH THEIR OWN STUFF.

I AHVE MET MANY OF THE ´USUAL SUSPECT´ AND HAVE FOUND THEM WANTING.

I HAVE SYSTEM THAT ONE CAN USE TO DETERMINE AHEAD OF TIME IF THE THERAPIST INQUESTION WILL BENEFIT THEM AS OPPOSED TO VICE-VERCA.

I WILL NOT MENTIONS NAMES IN THIS FORUM OF PEOPLE I WOULD RECOMMEND WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION, AT PRESENT, THE LIST IS EXTREMELY SMALL.

I WOULD EXTEND THAT INFOR IN A PERSONAL NOTE EMAIL WITHIN TIS FORUM IF I RECIEVED ONE REQUESTING IT...THIS SITE HAS AN ´INSIDE E-MAIL/MESSAGE FEATURE DOESN´T IT?


John Mack has uncovered the truth about the aliens, for those with eyes to see. But if you want somebody you can trust, trust yourself

I APPRECIATE AND RESPECT YOUR OPINION HERE, I WOULD BE GALD TO DISCUSS WITH YOU FURTHER, BUT I AM NOT SURE WHAT "TRUTH" YOU ARE REFERRING TO IN REGARD TO MACK...???

I AGREE WE MUST TRUST OURSELVES, HOWEVER, PEOPLE WITH THESE KIND SOF BACKROUNDS (ABDCUTIONS) OFTEN HAVE TROUBLE WITH THAT ONE, BECAUSE IN MANY CASES PSYCHOLOGICALLY WTIHIN THEIR EMOTIONAL WORLD, THEY CAN´T DELINEATE BETWEN THEMSELVES AND OTHERS, IN PATICULAR THAT OF THEIR ALIEN ABDCUTORS. THIS IS ONE OF THE MORE INSIDIOUS ASPECT´S OF MACK´S PUBLIC ASSERTIONS REGARDING "ALIEN IDENTITIES" AND POEPL DISCOVERING THEIR "ALIEN SELVES"....I KNOW THIS GUY KNOWS BETTER, HE HAS TO, LOOK AT HIS BACKGROUND AND TELL ME THAT AS A PSYCHITRAIST WHO KNOWS ALL ABOUT DISSOCIATION AND THE PSYCHOLOGICAL DEPENDANCY THAT DEVELOPES BETWEEN ABUSE VICTIMS AND THEIR PERPETRAITORS AND TRAUMATIZED PEOPLE WHO, IN ORDER TO SURVIVE MUST CO-IDENTIFY WITH THOSE IN POWER (IN CONTROL OF THE SITUATION). IT IS A NON-STARTER THAT MACK IS DELIBERATELY HIDING THE STRUCUTRE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING BY REINFORCING THE "STORY´...ALIEN IDENTITIES IS A BELIEF NOT AN EMPIRACAL FACT, YET HE TALKS LIKE IT IS...HE TAKLKS LIKE AN MATUER OR SOME NAIVE RESEARCHER WITH NO BACKGROUND IN PSYCHIATRIC PRCTICE, YET HE PULLS UP THAT RESUME SELCTIVELY INORDER TO GIVE WEIGHT AND AUTHENTICITY TO WHAT HE IS SAYING.

HIS ASSOCIATION WITH THE HUMAN POTENTIAL GROUP IS INITSELF A RED FLAG. I MEAN LOOK WHO THIS GUY IS COLLABORATING WITH; (JUST TWO EXAPMLES) A SOVIET DOCTOR WHO DESIGNS BRAIN IMPLANTS FOR PURPOSES OF BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION AND AN "EX-MILITARY INTELLIGENCE OPERATED OBSESSED WITH CREATING SUPER SOLDIERS (THROUGHTHUSE OF TECH AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TECHNIQUES) WHO STILL APPEARS TO BE WORKINFG FOR MILITRAY INTEL.
I SUGEGEST , IF YOU HVEN´T YET LOKED AT MY POST 76 THIS THREAD, YOU MIGHT AS THERE IS BACKGROUND INFO ON MACK AND HIS "FRIENDS/ASSOCIATES".
OR LOOK INTO IT YOURSELF, THE INFORMATION IS OT THERE AND CAN BE CROSSED VERIIFIED
TRUST YOURSELF YES, BUT DON´T ISOLATE YOURSELF FROM INFORMATION THAT MIGTH BENEFIT YOU. TRUST YOUR SELF TO BE OPEN TO PSSIBILITIES VEN IN OPPOSITION TO YOUR OWN BELIEFS..THAT´S WHAT KEEPS US HONEST WITH OUR SELVES.

THANKS FOR HAVING THE GUTS TO DISAGREE IN THIS TOPIC ON MACK.

Lapis;

Oh the stench of old, black negative Atlantis opposing our here and now! Just shatter the mind, crush the heart, fragment the personality, shove co-axial cable up their as#*, add some distorted left hand path knowledge and, ta da! Same tired old crap again a la negative Aquarius/Uranus energy timeline.

INTERESTING YOU SHOULD MENTION THE CO-AXIAL CABLE UP THEIR AS# AND ATLANTIS IN THE SAME BREATH.
THERE IS ACTUALLY QUITE LITERLLY SOME TRUTH IN THAT METAPHOR...SOME LITERAL TRUTH...

THERE WERE ´BEINGS´ AT THE TIME (ALTHOUGH THE PLACE DIDN´T CALL ITSELF "ATLANTIS") WHO WERE ACTUALLY NON-COPOREAL BUT APPEARED TO BE INCARNATE PHYSICALLY. THEY WERE QUITE POWERFUL METAPHYSICALLY AND COULD MANIPULTE PHYSICAL SPACE AS THEY WERE PRESENT IN TI, BUT YHEY COULD NOT FEEL PHYSICAL PLEASURE EXCEPT BY WAY OF ´PROXY´ THROUGH THE USE OF INTERFACING TECHNOLOGY WITH THE HUMAN NERVOUS SYSTEM.

THEY HAD TECHNOLOGY THAT ALLOWED THEM TO LITERALLY PLUG INTO THE HUMAN SPINAL COLUMN AND THUS, PROVOKE OR EVOKE AN EXPERIENCE THAT THE HUMAN WOULD RESPOND TO AND THEM THEY (THESE BEINGS) WOULD FEEL THAT EXPERIENCE PHYSICALLY THROUGH THE "CABLE" APPLIANCE ATTACHED AT THE BASE OF THE HUMAN´S SPINE.

THE KICKED HERE IS THAT ONE OF THE SIDE-EFFECTS OF THIS PROCESS ALLOWED THE HUMAN BRIEF TRANSITORY (BUT REMEMBERED AS EXPERIENTAL DATA)) ACCESS INTO THE ´MIND/CONSCIOUSNESS/MEMORY/KNOWLEDGE´ OF THE BEING.

KIND OF LIKE HAVING YOU CONSCIOUSNESS JUMP STARTED INTO HYPERSPACE!

THE HUMAN´S THAT SURVIVED THIS PROCESS (MANY WERE KILLED IMMEDIATELY AFTER BECAUSE OF THE SIDE-EFFECT OF SUPER KNOWLEDGE)HAD A GOOD DEGREE MORE MENTAL SUPERIORITY, AWARENESS AND KNOWLEDGE THAN THE HUMANS THAT HADN´T HAD THAT DONE TO THEM.

THIS IS ONE OF THE WAYS, BIBLICALLY, ONE CAN LOOK AT THE DISCUSSIONS OF ANGELIC CONTACT WITH MAN HAVING AN IMPACT (ACCELERATED EVOLUTION OF MANKIND THRU INTERACTION WITH "ANGELIC HOSTS".) IT WAS BASICALLY THE RESULT, IN MANY CASES, OF THE LITERAL SIDE-EFFECT OF A PURIENT SEXUAL ACT...AND COMPLETELY UNINTEND IN THE "ANGEL´S" PART.

UH, JUST IN CASE YOU WERE INTERESTED...


14

Aztec;

"If you´re going to lay claim to a young boy´s soul then you´d better have some straight answers instead of the runaround you´re feeding these people."

Please advise in what post did I lay claim to anyone´s soul?

I will answer any question you ask. What would you like to ask me Aztec?

I don´t think I have tried to give people the "runaround" as I have answered all of the questions that I could answer honestly, and I was even accused of making "bold statements" by one inquiring mind.

Please give an example to back up your statement reprinted above regarding "giving people the runaround".

Also, since I politely responded to your question regarding Mack, I would appreciate a response to mine; Exactly what "truth" has John Mack revealed about the "aliens"?

Thanks for your interest in my postings.

All the rest of you terrific and interesting folks...I will be back later on to respond to yours in kind.


15

chris b,

Not sure what you mean by "construct" in regard to your last post. Please explain so I can better understand what you ae asking.

The "GREYS" are mchanical...albeit sophisticated machinery... I can speak more about this if you like.

As for me being used by my "Handlers".

Well, I can assure you, if there is nothing else you believe in my posts, I am not doing what they would like me to do. I have several "handlers"...depending on which group we are talking about.

The reason that I am not "operational" any more in terms of being used in field is because I found out who I was..and I had the ability to "see the man behind the curtain"; I knew it from childhood, but I had to believe the lies because I thought that was the way to survive.

Trust me, chris b, the last thing anyone of these "groups" want is for me to be doing what I am doing here.

Sharon´s grandson has a chance to break free of this, because of his level of awareness....his abductions might be able to be stopped. I was simply trying to let Sharon know this; I can understand the dynamics in her response.

You offer information to people; it is up to them how they use it...or choose not to...

You have good questions and a probing mind.

Quan Yin;

Your post intrigues me. I have something to talk to you about later. Must run now (I am a night owl...not a day person, so I will return in the evening).


16

Sharon;

"I do have a problem when others try to tell others what their experiences "really" are, unless one is intimately involved in that person´s experience and has been given the "OK" to reveal that facet part of their shared experiences..."

????????????????????!

Let´s try a hypothetical approach here (since all my other ones have failed);

If you had told us that your grandson was having visions of going to Iraq and then that he came over one evening while you were supposedly sleeping and spoke to his grandfather, and then went outside and saw military vehicles go down the street and perhaps a helicopter flying over the house...(with a roommate for a witness) and then it turns out that he is actually in the military. It might be that one could presume, based solely on the information being accurate as you provided, that this boy had been to military boot camp at some point in the past and was currently serving in the armed forces.

And if that being the proper presumption, then would it not be likely, that based on other information such as what kind of uniform he is wearing, what kind of patches he has on it, what kind of weapons he has been trained to use, the color of his military beret, etc., etc., to extrapolate exactly what branch of the service he serves in, whether or not he is attached to special operations, and what his specialty he has, as far as his specific training and how he is being trained to serve in what function valuable to his military unit?

And, IF you had described all this to someone who had been in the military and gone through similar experiences and they then said to you, well, "you know your grandson has been to military boot camp and it sounds from the description you provided that he is in special services and in particular he is an Army Rangers and Army Rangers are trained to"....etc., etc., etc.,

You would probably have much less doubt reagarding the veracity of my extrapolation, as it was pretty clear, using common knowledge, personal experience, and reasoned thinking, that your grandson´s training and function and experiences within the military, is in itself, are not independent and mutually exclusive from the general training and experiential knowledge of others who may also have had, in general and specifically, the same experience via military service.

The main issue here, as I see it, is that instead of being in the military as in the previous hypothetical example, your grandson is an "alien abductee" and thus being so, we have the issue of having to deal with the subject of "aliens".

Exit logical thought and reasoned evaluation of evidence in a methodical and systematic examination of events, human behavior (as well as alien behavior), forensic pathology,stated intention vs. outcome, motivation,structure,examination of fact versus hearsay, and the tangible and hypothetical outcomes; real and intended.

Enter the issue of emotion, belief and doubt.

"Aliens!"

The word itself evokes a whole different emotional and psychological response in terms of a striking example of how one´s thinking is actually altered and driven by one´s beliefs and the emotions evoked by those beliefs when they are threatened...and how one´s beliefs will dictate their own evaluation of stated facts...completely absent of all of the criteria that would ordinarily be used in a logical and sequential analysis of known data.

Ofcourse, I cannot tell you WHAT you grandson´s own personal expereince is in terms of how he personally relates, processes and thinks about his own experience and I never tried to tell you that...what I attempted to do (and failed miserably) was to inform you as to the nature of the events that you described as occurring around him and provide information as to the actual causes, probable participants and their intentions toward him, the nature of their relationship, and then I supplied you with a possibly helpful solution that would:

a) answer some unanswered questions and

b) give an alternative solution that might well be a source of more information and at the same time help assist a young man in trouble (failing academically, and with severe allergies that threaten his immune system and are not pleasent for him...and possibly help remove him from a dangerous situation).

THAT´S ALL I DID here initially within this thread.

I looked primarily at the STRUCTURAL dynamic of what was described and used the content of the information you provided as a navigation tool to help me understand exactly what, based on my knowledge and understanding AND PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of this "subject matter", was/is occurring with your grandson.

Based on that, and the responses that occurred as a result, as this discussion evolved into one in which I, having been asked to reveal my "credentials", and having done so in a rather honest and forthright manner (I think, considering the circumstances), I have become subject to accusations that range from being party to "genocide" ( I am still baffled by that one), being guilty of deliberate misinformation, being a spook on the CIA payroll, plagiarism of other sources on the internet, "giving people the runaround",being the "John Titor of the ufo community" (who I have never even heard of) being a potential nut case, and, my own personal favorite; "laying claims on that boy´s soul"...(which in itself smacks of an occult reference that makes me wonder about the personal resume of the progenitor who delivered THAT accusation).

All because the subject here (or sub-subject, as your grandson is primary)is "aliens"...and not miltitary service or participation in 4-H activities, or religious affiliation, or gang activities or drug abuse or child molestation or...yatta yatta yatta.

How quick we are to protect our beloved beliefs by serperating ourselves from each other through emotionally contrived quantifications of each other´s motivations and intentions towards one another, simply based on information that is provided that threatens the veracity of those most preciously held beliefs.

And we can´t figure out why humanity is is the current mess it´s in, or that we are in a perpetual state of war...?

WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMIES...

(But I digress here; excuse me)

Now, I do understand and I fully realized when these posts began to evolve in this manner, that the discussion would become "colorful" and that people´s response would be...passionate, and THAT´S OK...REALLY, I UNDERSTAND AND WELCOME THOSE RESPONSES even the most critical ones (especially those) because they stimulate thoughtful reflections, provoke deep insights and intriguing and potentially groundbreaking epiphanies (in terms of personal and collective revelations).

The problem, in terms of some frustration I am cureently experiencing with all this, is in regard to what I feel is people here (perhaps you as well) having lost sight of the most pressing issue here...in terms of your own personal response to that of your grandson´s situation and it´s impact on him...and his welfare being left behind as an important focus in all of this...at least in respect to the power you have in terms of making a positive difference in his life because of your own personal experience and knowledge as a result of that experience.

Knowledge is power; wisdom is HOW you apply that knowledge TO YOUR THOUGHTS, YOUR DEEDS AND YOUR INTENTIONS.

THE BOY NEEDS HELP. ASSISTANCE WHICH, YOU, BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN PERSONAL INVOLVEMENT IN THIS DRAMA AND LACK OF REQUISITE SKILLS REQUIRED TO RENDER THAT ASSITENCE, CANNOT PROVIDE.

However, because of that very same experience, you do have the power to assert some influence that might change the very course of his life and, in the long-term big picture of all of this...might very well save his life.

Unless you would like to see him further progress into continued difficulties in his life, his health problems increasing because of an over-stressed and compromised immune system, his academic status decline further, his psyhological/emotional world be held in a continually confusing and negatively re-cycling "drama" state impacting him and those around him; all because "his alien friends" who seem to enjoy the pleasure and entertainment of his company so much that he continues to be involved in an unsolvable, "but wonderful" (and exciting) drama intended to "save mankind" and give him lofty knowledge and spiritual attainment, I suggest that you do what you can to intervene in a life-enhancing pro-grandson approach as opposed to trying to figure out whether or not I am intending to deceive you (as well as others) and, or TELL HIM WHAT HIS (OR YOUR) EXPERIENCE OF THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

One doesn´t have to be a rocket scientist,or,as the case may be unfortunately, an ex-mil/ingellience psychic data analyzing secret occult child prodigy "sockpuppet" (I liked this one!) to figure out that this whole drama occurring within your grandson´s life (and apparently yours as well) is impacting him in a non-productive, negative, and destructive manner.

It´s destructive to his physical wel-being, his pyscho-social relationships, his emotional integration of all this (which by the way is intimately entangled with his auto-immune response via his "allergies"), his intellectual/academic potential and whatever future he intends to pursue in terms of career and personal success within the frame of healthy human endeavours and a life-enhancing productive and personally rewarding life.

You doubt that statement? I refer you to read all about the public accounts of the personal life histories of "alien abdcutees" and the miseries that have impacted their lives...and the lives of their families. And you can start, if you haven´t already, by reading Mr. Whitley Strieber´s personal auto-biographical accounts as reflected within a good majority of his published works on this subject.

Since HE has some standing within this community (and I don´t), and I haven´t heard anyone accusing him of being on a CIA payroll or dolling out disinformation, you may then realize exactly what my intentions are towards you and your grandson. Read how this whole thing has impacted his wel-being and his family and his health all the way from his early childhood to present day.

Then, you won´t have to either trust or not trust me or my information, you´ll will have you own.

I am sure you have your own beliefs and ideas regarding you own personal history to reflect on in regard to this matter, albeit colored by outside and insidious influences; you certainly know what is at stake here.

WHICH BEGS THE QUESTION NO ONE HAS ASKED HERE;

Exactly WHAT is your grandson getting out of all this...other than failing grades, severe auto-immune response (in terms of his allergic chrisis´s) and distraction...and apparently alot of inter-family, and now extended social circle, drama?

I could have carried on a dialogue with you that involved things like terms being thrown around like "threshold marker", for example, as I do know where at least one of the "bookends" here is, in terms of the first (initiating ) threshold marker is within the frame of your grandsons experience within THAT EVENT. I could have told you where I think the second where threshold marker "bookend" might have occurred. I could have told you the exact moment in time as to EXACTLY WHEN (THE PRECISE MOMENT IN TIME) when his "state change" occurred... and when he was cued into a depth of trance level, and what the markers were to indicate that he had no choice in regards to his actions up to a certain point in time and how he may have "porpoised" up from a delta-dirux state into an ultra theta/alpha state and regained more than the memory which he has (you have) related...and how, if you were to look in the right place within his consciousness using the requisite linguistic and physiological CUEING as a point of navigation...you could help him regain the entire knowledge and "truth" (HIS TRUTH;NOT MINE) of the event THAT BEGAN THIS ENTIRE DISCUSSION.

But since you wouldn´t have known what the heck I was talking about (why would you?) or not too many other here,I chose what I thought would be a more helpful route of useful information.

Unfortunately, I did not deliver the information in a way that could be considered without the battering rams of my diatribe beating against the opposing fortress of belief-driven emotion-laden communication-stopping magical-thinking-constructed fear-driven vision-blinding hearing-impaired emotionally-paralyzing freeze-frame paradigm of "kill the messenger" because the message is too-disturbing-to-be-allowed-to-exist-or considered-as-an-alternative to the "official" story...syndrome.

(which by the way you didn´t really have a very big part in to your credit, you have actually been very open and polite in that regard)...

NOW THAT I HAVE READ YOU THE RIOT ACT...AND PERHAPS MADE A POINT I SHOULD HAVE MADE MANY POSTS AGO...I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT I HAVE TREMENDOUS EMPATHY FOR WHAT YOU AND YOUR GRANDSON ARE ENDURING AND HAVE ENDURED AND I DO NOT QUESTION YOUR LOVE AND DESIRE FOR ALL THE BEST IN HIS LIFE.

I AM SIMPLY GIVING YOU THE BEST INFORMATION I CAN, IN A WAY THAT MIGHT CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY, FOR MAKING A DIFFERENCE HERE THAT MIGHT LITERALLY HELP CHANGE THE FUTURE AND GIVE A YOUNG MAN A CHANCE AT A HEALTHY AND NORMAL...AND "FREE" LIFE.

I HAVE A GIFT, YOU SEE...AND THAT GIFT IS ALSO A CURSE...AND THE CURSE IS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF THINGS THAT CANNOT BE SUBSTANTIATED UNTIL AFTER THEY OCCUR, THUS CREATING BOTH A PRACTICAL AND ETHICAL DILEMMA FOR ONE WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN THE POWER OF THE POSSIBILITIES OF TRANSFORMATION AND REDEMPTION...AND A CHOICE BEING MADE WHERE THERE PREVIOUSLY HAS BEEN NONE.

I SEE HIS FUTURE (quite literally)...AND THE ONLY POWER I HAVE HERE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, I HAVE EXERCISED WITHIN THIS FORUM...THE REST IS UP TO YOU.

Having said all THAT (and sure to reap the repercussions of it!)....stick a fork in me; I am done...!

I WILL RETURN...after a period of rest and recuperation (I am ill at present) to answer all remaining questions asked and once and for all prove my case for what I have said is the true nature of this phenomenon within these posts.

-OSR


17

ATTN Everyone:

Yes. Nicodemus. You are correct, I misquoted. My apologies to Sharon for misquoting her, I was trying to read and ingest everything and misread Soilride´s name for Sharon´s...however the rest of that post stands as it is regardless.

As I said, the sentiment in my post stands as is written. It wasn´t intended to be a criticism of Sharon personally; I was addressing much of it to others as well, but my core point being focussed on her and the circumstance regarding her grandson that evolved from the first posting on this thread...and the subsequent responses in terms of my postings that followed that discussion.

Sharon´s last post was actually rather pleasant and positive, so I once again apologize for the misquote in my last post( #90) on this thread.


18

SUSANO QUESTIONS AND OSR ANSWERS...

smarts

1) Are there always humans operating behind/with the greys?

GREYS WERE CREATED TO DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING ON BEHALF OF ANOTHER AGENCY. THEY ARE HIGH TECH PROXIES THAT FUNCTION WITHIN A VERY LIMITED SCOPE OF ACTIVITIES "PROGRAMMED", IF YOU WILL, TO CARRY OUT BASIC TASKS. NOW, HERE IS WHERE IT GETS TRICKY TO UNDERSTAND...ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE AN ABDUCTEE. I MENTIONED FOUR CATEGORIES OF DISTINCT GROUPS IN A PRIOR POST TO CHRIS B. THOSE CATEGORIES WERE:

1)CULT/OCCULT
2)MILITARY/INTEL
3)METAPHYSICAL ELEMENTS
4)OUTSIDE AGENCIES

IN REGARD TO YOUR QUESTION: THE GREYS ARE EXTEMELY HIGH TECH,BUT THEY ARE NOT THAT BRIGHT. HUMANS ARE INFINITELY SMARTER THAN GREYS...GREYS ARE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE DESIGNED TO PERFORM TASKS AND TO GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF SOMETHING UNEARTHLY..SOMETHING NON-HUMAN. THEY ARE SUBJECT TO THE WILL OF THEIR CREATORS. THE ORIGINATORS OF THIS TECHNOLOGY ARE FROM GROUP:

4)OUTSIDE AGENCIES

(OUTSIDE AGENCIES REFERS TO A GROUP OR GROUPS WHOSE ORIGIN IS NOT FROM HERE, THE PRESENT, OR ORIGINATING FROM THIS PLANET. I CAN GIVE MORE INFORMATION ON THIS AS I AM ASKED SPECIFIC QUESTIONS.)

A SPECIFIC GROUP (HUMANOID...HUMANLIKE) HAS A "ARRANGEMENT" ALBEIT A TENUOUS ONE, WITH SOME CONSIDERABLE DEGREE OF ANIMOSITY AND PARANOIA AND (SOME INTENSE ATTEMPTS AT ESPIONAGE) WITH ELEMENTS OF GROUP:

2)MILITARY/INTEL

THIS GETS REALLY COMPLICATED BECAUSE THERE ARE A VARIETY OF OTHER FACTORS HERE, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS THE INFILTRATION OF GROUP:

1)CULT/OCCULT

INTO THE UPPER RANKS OF GROUP

2)MILITARY/INTEL

I ALSO MENTIONED OCCASIONS WHERE OTHER ABDUCTEE CHILDREN MAY BE USED IN THIS MANNER, DRESSED UP IN ALIEN GARB AND WHATNOT. GENERALLY ABDUCTIONS WITH THIS SCENARIO OCCUR IN SECURE ´STATIONARY´ LOCATIONS WHERE THERE IS NO PUBLIC ACCESS AND THE MILITARY HAS COMPLETE CONTROL LOGISTICALLY.


2) Are there alien only (no human involvement or connection) abductions?

YES...BUT THAT IS ONLY POSSIBLE BECAUSE OF THE COLLABORATION OF GROUPS:

1) 2) & 4)

WITHOUT THAT EARTHLY (HUMAN) COLLABORATION IT WOULD NOT BE PRACTICAL OR VERY LIKELY THAT COULD HAPPEN. IT IS ONLY POSSIBLE THROUGH HUMAN FACILITATORS. I CAN SAY MORE ON THIS LATER IF ASKED.

3)Who is doing cattle/animal mutilations, and why?

THIS IS SOMETHING I AM UNABLE TO DISCUSS AT PRESENT DUE TO "TECHNICAL" PROBLEMS. LET ME GET BACK TO YU ON THIS ONE.

4)Who is flying the black helicopters? This really intrigues me. They seem to be associated with the most bizzare and paranormal events, as well as very earthly/human events, such as the harrassment of militia members, after Waco. Most of the time, militia people are not the paranormal crowd, just anti-fascist police state. After Waco, a lot of info surfaced that these helicopters came from a military base in Kentucky, Ft. Campbell, I think. I don´t mean to confuse different types of activities, here, but I´m struggling to make a connection.

YES. I UNDERSTAND. BLACK HELICOPTERS ARE PART OF COVERT OPS AND FOR THE MOST PART, AT LEAST DURING ABDUCTIONS, THEY "RUN SECURITY AROUND THE PERIMETER TO KEEP OUT CERTAIN ENVIRONMENTAL VARIABLES FROM OCCURRING...LIKE ACCIDENTAL DISCOVERY BY AN "UNAUTHORIZED PARTICIPANT".
FEMA SEEMS TO HAVE A FLEET OF THEM AS WELL.

THEY PRODUCE SOUND WAVES AT, I BELIEVE IT´S EITHER HALF THE FREQUENCY OR IS IT TWICE THE FREQUENCY OF THE NATURAL SOUND OF THE HELICOPTER (BLADES) OR ANOTHER FREQUENCY. UH, THE MEMORY FAILS ME AT PRESENT, BUT ANYWAY THEY BOUNCE THESE SOUND WAVES OFF THE GROUND AND THAT PRODUCES THE EFFECT OF CANCELING OR VOIDING THE SOUND OF THE BLADES AS THAT BOUNCED SOUND "REVERBS" BACK AND MEETS THE NATURAL SOUND OF THE COPTER...ANYWAY, I AM NOT EXPLAINING THIS VERY WELL, I AM SURE AN ACOUSTICAL ENGINEER COULD EXPLAIN THIS EFFECT MUCH BETTER.

I HAD AN EXPERIENCE ONE TIME RIDING IN A RENTAL MOVING TRUCK THAT WAS EMPTY IN BACK AND AS A BLACK HELICOPTER FLEW DIRECTLY OVERHEAD, ONE COULD LITERALLY HERE THE ACOUSTICAL PROJECTION THUMBING DOWN BOUNCING OFF THE ROOF OF THE TRUCK, BUT GOING COMPLETELY SILENT AS IT HIT THE HIGHWAY ASPHALT.

5) What do you think would happen if someone, a rancher for instance, shot down one of these black helicopters?

THAT WOULD BE THE LAST THING THEY EVER SHOT.

6) Can anything be done, by the public, to expose these abductors and stop them?

YES...DEFINATELY. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY IT EVER WILL BE STOPPED...THAT, AND DIRECT INTERVENTION ON THE PART OF THE ABDUCTEES.

THIS REQUIRES A GOOD LENGTHY DISCUSSION TO DO IT JUSTICE. IT IS A MOST EXCELLENT QUESTION. (MAY I PLEASE BEG YOUR PATIENCE HERE AS I RETIRE AND RETURN WITH A MORE THOROUGH ANSWER).

I know these are a ton of questions. It´s just that you´re so interesting, I could talk to you all day & night. This thread may hit 1000.

susi called you "he". My impression is that you are a woman. Can you say? Also, are girls more often targeted in mind control programs?

WOMEN HAVE LESS HEMISPHERIC LATERALIZATION THAN MEN (GENERALLY). HEMISPHERIC SPECIALIZATION IN MEN ALSO SEEMS TO BE A CO-FACTOR IN A HIGHER SUICIDE RATE FOR MEN IF, AND WHEN THE PROGRAMMING BREAKS DOWN OR AN INTERVENTION )DE-PROGRAMMING) OCCURS...THEY ARE AT A GREATER RISK FOR IMPLEMENTING PROGRAMMED-SUICIDES DURING ANY DE-PROGRAMMING ATTEMPTS AND HAVE TO BE MONITORED VERY CLOSELY. HOWEVER, IT HAS BEEN POSTULATED THAT MEN DON´T GENERALLY OPEN UP AND TALK ABOUT STUFF LIKE THIS...WOMEN TEND TO BE MORE OPEN..SO IT IS HARD TO TELL BY LOOKING AT STATISTICS DONE BY SURVEY.

ANOTHER FACTOR INVOLVES MITOCHONDRIA DNA...WHICH IS ONLY PASSED GENETICALLY BY THE FEMALE.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evidence of evil in the world appears to our senses in order to let us know the consequnces of the beliefs we hold.
- Seth
INTERESTING THOUGHT...


19

Sharon wrote;

Military type helicopters with dark window and can´t see in side. When you finally eyeball them they leave in my case going down a creek and then nothing.
No one comes out. You are the only witness, I go and tell my husband who was outside yet in front of the house. He said he heard nothing. When question later my a top name researcher, I was asked did I feel the wind from the propellars, and was there dirt being thrown up and the answer was no.

THAT IS INTERESTING. THERE ARE MILITARY HELICOPTERS THAT ARE OFTEN USED AS TRANSPORT VEHICLES TO CARRY ABDUCTEES FROM ONE LOCATION TO ANOTHER. OFTEN THEY WILL SCOOP UP ANY NUMBER OF (UNRELATED) ABDUCTEES IN "ONE RUN". DELIVERING THEM TO A SECURE LOCATION, SUCH AS A "PROGRAMMING CENTER" OR A COVERT INSTALLATION.
MANY OF THESE ARE UNDERGROUND. OFTEN, THERE WILL BE A FACADE, A "FRONT" BUSINESS OR SOME OTHER TYPE OF PLACE THAT LOOKS LIKE SOME INNOCUOUS LOCAL, BUT THERE WILL BE ACCESS ("A PORT OF ENTRY)) TO AN UNDERGROUND AREA.

I HAVE ONCE HEARD A SIMILAR STORY REGARDING A WITNESSED HELICOPTER EVENT, WHERE THERE WERE TWO WOMEN IN ONE ROOM (IN THERAPEUTIC SESSION) AND THEY BOTH HEARD THE SOUND OF A LARGE HELICOPTER RIGHT ABOVE THE OFFICE BUILDING, HOWEVER, THE PERSON OUTSIDE IN THE WAITING ROOM DID NOT. THEY THOUGHT THERE WAS SOME SORT OF PROJECTED SOUND BEING USED TO CREATE THAT EFFECT...I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS IN PARTICULAR...MY AREA OF EXPERTISE IS NOT ON COVERT/MILITARY HELICOPTERS....I JUST KNOW THAT THEY FUNCTION MOSTLY IN THE AREA OF TRANSPORT AND SECURITY. THERE ARE DEFINITE OCCASIONS WHERE THERE IS OVERT AND COVERT HARRASSMENT...BUT THIS IS MORE IN THE PSY-OPS CATEGORY.

FEMA (FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY) HAS A FLEET OF THESE AND PLAYS A ROLE IN ALL THIS AS WELL.

Fear would shoot threw me, I would go out side because the sound made me think that this helicopter was low and would raise up over the house any second. This went on for several weeks, then I started to notice that this chopper was anywhere from 500´ to 1000´ above me even though the sound sounded like it was very low

WELL, IT´S ONE WAY TO GET A PERSON OUTSIDE OF A HOUSE; SCOOPING THEM UP IS EASIER FOR A HELICOPTER TO DO, IF THEY ARE AWAY FROM A BUILDING.

Living in San Jose, you know how crowded this area is, and how much city there is.

THAT´S INTERESTING. I KNOW A LOT ABOUT SAN JOSE.
EVER HAVE ANY THING TO DO WITH THE ROSECRUCIAN CENTER?..OR SOMEONE ELSE IN YOUR FAMILY?

Living in San Jose, you know how crowded this area is, and how much city there is.

ALIENS ARE NOT FLYING THE HELICOPTERS;HUMANS ARE.
"WHY" HAS A LOT OF DIFFERENT REASONS, BUT AS I EXPLAINED ABOVE, THERE ARE LOGISTICAL REASONS AS HELICOPTERS CAN MOVE IN AND OUT OF URBAN AREAS AND HAVE TREMENDOUS FLEXIBILITY IN REGARD TO THEIR MANEUVERABILITY. SO THEY CAN PERFORM MULTI-FUNCTIONS IN ABDUCTION SCENARIOS THAT INCLUDE TRANSPORT AND SECURING PERIMETERS.

russadams wrote;

Okay, I´ll ask: Who exactly are the outside agencies controlling the greys that are in cahoots with the military/intel, and where are they from? Sorry, but I´d kick myself till the cows come home if I didn´t ask.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I CAN ANSWER IN THE WAY YOU WOULD PROBABLY LIKE, FOR VARIOUS REASONS, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH, IS A GOOD DEAL OF OPERANT CONDITIONING.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT THEY RESEMBLE US IN BASICALLY ALL THE WAYS A HUMAN LOOKS...HUMAN. THEY ARE GENERALLY GAUNT LOOKING AND HAVE WHAT APPEAR TO BE AN IDENTICAL APPEARANCE IN TERMS OF BEING RATHER SMALL (SHORT) AND GAUNT AND HAVE FACIAL FEATURES THAT LOOK SLIGHTLY ASIAN, BUT MORE IN TERMS OF THEIR EYES THAN ANYTHING ELSE. THEIR EYES, IN PARTICULAR HAVE AN "ELEMENT" THAT SETS THEM APART FROM US IN APPEARANCE, ALTHOUGH THIS MAY, OR MAY NOT, HAVE A BIOLOGICAL BASIS. THEY APPEAR TO HAVE A SKIN TONE THAT LOOKS OLIVE OR MAYBE THE COLOR OF A MEDIUM RANGE OLIVE OIL.
THE MALES LOOK LIKE THEY COULD BE "CLONES" OR IDENTICAL TO EACH OTHER, BUT THAT IS IN TERMS OF THEIR GENERAL APPEARANCE. THEY HAVE A NIHILISTIC THEOLOGY...IF YOU CAN CALL IT A THEOLOGY, AND YET AT THE SAME TIME, PARADOXICALLY, THEY ARE DRIVEN TOWARDS MEETING CERTAIN BIOLOGICAL NEEDS THAT REQUIRE HUMAN BIOLOGICAL "PRODUCT". IT APPEARS TO BE SOMEWHAT OF AN "ADDICTION" ON ONE LEVEL AND AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY FOR THEIR SURVIVAL ON ANOTHER.

THEY OPERATE ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY AT ONE PRIMARY "LEVEL" OR FOCUS, AND THAT IT SEEMS IS TO BE ONE OF AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY FOR THEM TO NEED HUMANS, AKIN TO A DEPENDENCY; WHILE AT THE SAME TIME THEY HAVE A SEVERE CONTEMPT AND DISLIKE FOR US...AS A RACE OR SPECIES.

IT APPEARS THAT THEY HAVE, AND MAY BE THE ORIGINATORS, OF SOME PRETTY SOPHISTICATED HIGH-TECH MIND CONTROL "APPLIANCES". ONE EXAMPLE OF THIS WOULD BE HEADGEAR THAT INTERACTS WITH HUMAN NEUROLOGY WITH INTENSE VISUAL STIMULATION AT A VERY VERY (CORE) DEEP LEVEL OF THE MIND/BRAIN. THIS WOULD APPEAR TO BE THE ORIGIN OF WHAT WE KNOW AS "VR" TECHNOLOGY (VIRTUAL REALITY). THERE ARE OTHER DEVICES AS WELL. THEY WELL UNDERSTAND THE HUMAN VISUAL CORTEX AND IT´S SENSITIVITY AND MUCH OF WHAT THEY USE TO CONTROL AND MANIPULATE UTILIZES "LIGHT" AND A CONFIGURATION INVOLVING ENERGETIC COMPONENTS, DESIGNED TO HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC "IMPACT" (EFFECT) ON HUMAN NEUROLOGY.

THEY ORGANIZE THEMSELVES WITHIN AN EXTREME HIERARCHY OF POWER AND CONTROL AND SEEM VERY MILITARISTC IN TERMS OF THEIR COMMAND AND CONTROL STRUCTURE.

THERE EXISTS ANOTHER HIERARCHY WITHIN A TRIAD OF RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN AGENDAS AND THAT INVOLVES INCLUSION AT VARIOUS LEVELS OF OTHER TYPES, WHOSE APPEARANCE LOOKS LESS LIKE THEY BELONG TO THIS RACIAL GROUP AND MORE LIKE HUMANS HERE, WITH SOME DISTINCTIONS IN TERMS OF HEIGHT AND COMPLEXION.

THERE IS A GENERAL ATMOSPHERE OF INTENSE OVERLAPPING AGENDAS HERE AND WHILE IT WOULD APPEAR TO BE HOMOGENEOUS IN IT´S ORGANIZATIONAL ASPECTS (AND HIERARCHY), THERE IS AN UNDERLYING TONE OF DISCORD ALONG "RACIAL" LINES AND A GOOD DEAL
OF DISTRUST AND INTRIGUE.

YOU HAVE TO THINK OF THIS AS KIND OF A "HIGHWAY" OF SORTS WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF HEAVY TRAFFIC AND CROSS-PURPOSES AND VARYING AGENDAS; SOME THAT OVERLAP AND SOME AT SEVERE ODDS WITH EACH OTHER.

THIS "ELEMENT" HAS A STATIONARY (PERMANENT) BASE ON THE SATELITE ORBITING OUR PLANET; WE CALL IT THE MOON.

(I NEED TO BREAK ON THIS TOPIC NOW...I CAN ONLY DO BRIEF PERIODS OF ACCESSING THIS INFORMATION DUE, ONCE AGAIN TO OPERANT CONDITIONING AND VARIOUS OTHER FACTORS. I CAN ANSWER MORE QUESTIONS ON THIS TOPIC LATER ON, IF ASKED.)

20

Susano;

smarts, the quote at the end of my posts, is from The Nature of Personal Reality: A Seth Book, by Jane Roberts. I think you´d like those books.

YES, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I WAS EXPOSED TO SOME OF THE MATERIAL IN THAT BOOK DURING CHILDHOOD "CONVERSATIONS" WITH WHAT APPEARED TO BE SPHERES OF LIGHT...THIS MATERIAL SEEMS TO BE OF COMMON INTEREST AMONG A VARIETY OF PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THIS AT VARIOUS LEVELS...

THANKS YOU FOR THE KIND AND GENEROUS WORDS...AND SENTIMENT, SUSANO...

I AM NOT SO SURE HOW BRAVE I AM...MORE BULLHEADED I GUESS...STUBBORN AND DEFIANT IS MY NATURE HAS ALWAYS BEEN TOWARDS RESISTING THIS SINCE CHILDHOOD. I WAS NOT AN EASY SELL. THERE IS AMPLE AMOUNT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION HERE THAT IS TAILORED TO THE INDIVIDUAL PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE OF THE PERSON (CHILD). IF THE CHILD CAN BE MANIPULATED USING POSITIVE PSYCHOLOGICAL ENSNAREMENT, THEY APPROACH THEM ON THAT LEVEL; HOWEVER, IF THAT FAILS, THEN, THERE IS A PROGRESSIVELY MORE HOSTILE APPROACH, UNTIL FINALLY ONE HAS TO MAKE A CHOICE BASED ON A "LIFE OR DEATH" PROPOSITION.

IN MY CASE, I WAS EXTREMELY WARY AND CONSTANTLY SCRUTINIZING THE "SCENARIOS" BEING PRESENTED. BECAUSE I QUESTIONED EVERYTHING, AS THEY CAME AT ME WITH ONE APPROACH AFTER ANOTHER...YOU KNOW THE "YOU ARE THE CHOSEN/WE NEED YOUR HELP/ OUR RACE IS DYING/ WE ARE HERE FOR THE GOOD OF MANKIND/WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS"...ETC., ETC., ETC.

FINALLY, WHEN I HAD EXHAUSTED THEM IN THEIR ATTEMPTS TO ENTICE ME THROUGH EMOTIONAL MANIPULATION OR HUMANITARIAN THEMES...THEY FINALLY PRESENTED THEIR "PROPOSITION" IN THE FORM OF..."COME WITH US OR DIE"...AND, BEING NO REAL CHOICE AT ALL; SINCE I WAS/ AND STILL AM SOMEWHAT ATTACHED TO THIS BODY AND THIS LIFE...WELL, HERE I AM. I HAVE IN THE PAST, OFTEN WONDERED IF I HAD ONLY TAKEN THE OTHER "OPTION" IN THE DEAL...THAT IT MIGHT HAVE WORKED OUT BETTER FOR ME.

(THE "COME WITH US OR DIE" EXAMPLE IS AN INTERESTING POINT OF CLEAR UNDERSTANDING REGARDING THE TRUE NATURE OF WHO THEY REALLY ARE...AT LEAST I THINK SO AND THOUGHT SO AS A CHILD. IN ONE WAY, I ALREADY "KNEW" WHO THEY WERE...AS THEY "KNEW" EXACTLY WHO I WAS...AND SEEMED THREATENED BY ME SOMEHOW, BUT TO THIS DAY, I AM UNSURE AS TO WHY, SINCE THEY SEEMED ALSO TO BE IN TOTAL CONTROL.)

AS FAR AS CATTLE MUTILATIONS...WELL, THIS IS PROBLEMATIC TO DISCUSS...FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS. I HAVE LIMITED KNOWLEDGE HERE...AND SOME DEGREE OF TROUBLE ACCESSING MORE THAN I WANT TO KNOW...OH, THAT SOUNDS STRANGE DOESN´T IT? THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT HAD SOME EXTREME UGLINESS AND DISCUSSIONS OF IT MIGHT BE DISTURBING TO PEOPLE...I FEEL I HAVE ALREADY MADE MORE THAN A FEW PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE READING THESE POSTS...ANYWAY, I HAVE TO GO NOW...WILL BE BACK LATER ON TO TRY AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION.


21

susi t learn wrote;

smart

there has been a lot of discussion on this board about the possible criteria for abduction. many seem to think people who have Celtic/Native American blood are prone.

any info regarding that?


Yes, susi t learn. That fact has been mentioned in some ufo/abducton literature...and I have noticed a pattern also in my own research among abductees.

One of the things that I didn´t mention about the first group I was referring to in the last post, is that, my mother, who actually saw them once when I was very little, referred to them (about 30 years later) as "the red-faced people".
I have a memory of this experience with her; it may be a factor regarding some condition with them as to a change in their skin color when they are in the earth environs, or it could be my mother´s perception as she experienced them to be angry...which they seem to have as their general disposition (their facial expression seems to be in a perpetual grimace). I am not able to say...other than to speculate....wildly. It is possible there is a connection (genetically) somehow to Native Americans regarding this group...but it would be

17

ATTN Everyone:

Yes. Nicodemus. You are correct, I misquoted. My apologies to Sharon for misquoting her, I was trying to read and ingest everything and misread Soilride´s name for Sharon´s...however the rest of that post stands as it is regardless.

As I said, the sentiment in my post stands as is written. It wasn´t intended to be a criticism of Sharon personally; I was addressing much of it to others as well, but my core point being focussed on her and the circumstance regarding her grandson that evolved from the first posting on this thread...and the subsequent responses in terms of my postings that followed that discussion.

Sharon´s last post was actually rather pleasant and positive, so I once again apologize for the misquote in my last post( #90) on this thread.


18

SUSANO QUESTIONS AND OSR ANSWERS...

smarts

1) Are there always humans operating behind/with the greys?

GREYS WERE CREATED TO DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING ON BEHALF OF ANOTHER AGENCY. THEY ARE HIGH TECH PROXIES THAT FUNCTION WITHIN A VERY LIMITED SCOPE OF ACTIVITIES "PROGRAMMED", IF YOU WILL, TO CARRY OUT BASIC TASKS. NOW, HERE IS WHERE IT GETS TRICKY TO UNDERSTAND...ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE AN ABDUCTEE. I MENTIONED FOUR CATEGORIES OF DISTINCT GROUPS IN A PRIOR POST TO CHRIS B. THOSE CATEGORIES WERE:

1)CULT/OCCULT
2)MILITARY/INTEL
3)METAPHYSICAL ELEMENTS
4)OUTSIDE AGENCIES

IN REGARD TO YOUR QUESTION: THE GREYS ARE EXTEMELY HIGH TECH,BUT THEY ARE NOT THAT BRIGHT. HUMANS ARE INFINITELY SMARTER THAN GREYS...GREYS ARE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE DESIGNED TO PERFORM TASKS AND TO GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF SOMETHING UNEARTHLY..SOMETHING NON-HUMAN. THEY ARE SUBJECT TO THE WILL OF THEIR CREATORS. THE ORIGINATORS OF THIS TECHNOLOGY ARE FROM GROUP:

4)OUTSIDE AGENCIES

(OUTSIDE AGENCIES REFERS TO A GROUP OR GROUPS WHOSE ORIGIN IS NOT FROM HERE, THE PRESENT, OR ORIGINATING FROM THIS PLANET. I CAN GIVE MORE INFORMATION ON THIS AS I AM ASKED SPECIFIC QUESTIONS.)

A SPECIFIC GROUP (HUMANOID...HUMANLIKE) HAS A "ARRANGEMENT" ALBEIT A TENUOUS ONE, WITH SOME CONSIDERABLE DEGREE OF ANIMOSITY AND PARANOIA AND (SOME INTENSE ATTEMPTS AT ESPIONAGE) WITH ELEMENTS OF GROUP:

2)MILITARY/INTEL

THIS GETS REALLY COMPLICATED BECAUSE THERE ARE A VARIETY OF OTHER FACTORS HERE, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS THE INFILTRATION OF GROUP:

1)CULT/OCCULT

INTO THE UPPER RANKS OF GROUP

2)MILITARY/INTEL

I ALSO MENTIONED OCCASIONS WHERE OTHER ABDUCTEE CHILDREN MAY BE USED IN THIS MANNER, DRESSED UP IN ALIEN GARB AND WHATNOT. GENERALLY ABDUCTIONS WITH THIS SCENARIO OCCUR IN SECURE ´STATIONARY´ LOCATIONS WHERE THERE IS NO PUBLIC ACCESS AND THE MILITARY HAS COMPLETE CONTROL LOGISTICALLY.


2) Are there alien only (no human involvement or connection) abductions?

YES...BUT THAT IS ONLY POSSIBLE BECAUSE OF THE COLLABORATION OF GROUPS:

1) 2) & 4)

WITHOUT THAT EARTHLY (HUMAN) COLLABORATION IT WOULD NOT BE PRACTICAL OR VERY LIKELY THAT COULD HAPPEN. IT IS ONLY POSSIBLE THROUGH HUMAN FACILITATORS. I CAN SAY MORE ON THIS LATER IF ASKED.

3)Who is doing cattle/animal mutilations, and why?

THIS IS SOMETHING I AM UNABLE TO DISCUSS AT PRESENT DUE TO "TECHNICAL" PROBLEMS. LET ME GET BACK TO YU ON THIS ONE.

4)Who is flying the black helicopters? This really intrigues me. They seem to be associated with the most bizzare and paranormal events, as well as very earthly/human events, such as the harrassment of militia members, after Waco. Most of the time, militia people are not the paranormal crowd, just anti-fascist police state. After Waco, a lot of info surfaced that these helicopters came from a military base in Kentucky, Ft. Campbell, I think. I don´t mean to confuse different types of activities, here, but I´m struggling to make a connection.

YES. I UNDERSTAND. BLACK HELICOPTERS ARE PART OF COVERT OPS AND FOR THE MOST PART, AT LEAST DURING ABDUCTIONS, THEY "RUN SECURITY AROUND THE PERIMETER TO KEEP OUT CERTAIN ENVIRONMENTAL VARIABLES FROM OCCURRING...LIKE ACCIDENTAL DISCOVERY BY AN "UNAUTHORIZED PARTICIPANT".
FEMA SEEMS TO HAVE A FLEET OF THEM AS WELL.

THEY PRODUCE SOUND WAVES AT, I BELIEVE IT´S EITHER HALF THE FREQUENCY OR IS IT TWICE THE FREQUENCY OF THE NATURAL SOUND OF THE HELICOPTER (BLADES) OR ANOTHER FREQUENCY. UH, THE MEMORY FAILS ME AT PRESENT, BUT ANYWAY THEY BOUNCE THESE SOUND WAVES OFF THE GROUND AND THAT PRODUCES THE EFFECT OF CANCELING OR VOIDING THE SOUND OF THE BLADES AS THAT BOUNCED SOUND "REVERBS" BACK AND MEETS THE NATURAL SOUND OF THE COPTER...ANYWAY, I AM NOT EXPLAINING THIS VERY WELL, I AM SURE AN ACOUSTICAL ENGINEER COULD EXPLAIN THIS EFFECT MUCH BETTER.

I HAD AN EXPERIENCE ONE TIME RIDING IN A RENTAL MOVING TRUCK THAT WAS EMPTY IN BACK AND AS A BLACK HELICOPTER FLEW DIRECTLY OVERHEAD, ONE COULD LITERALLY HERE THE ACOUSTICAL PROJECTION THUMBING DOWN BOUNCING OFF THE ROOF OF THE TRUCK, BUT GOING COMPLETELY SILENT AS IT HIT THE HIGHWAY ASPHALT.

5) What do you think would happen if someone, a rancher for instance, shot down one of these black helicopters?

THAT WOULD BE THE LAST THING THEY EVER SHOT.

6) Can anything be done, by the public, to expose these abductors and stop them?

YES...DEFINATELY. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY IT EVER WILL BE STOPPED...THAT, AND DIRECT INTERVENTION ON THE PART OF THE ABDUCTEES.

THIS REQUIRES A GOOD LENGTHY DISCUSSION TO DO IT JUSTICE. IT IS A MOST EXCELLENT QUESTION. (MAY I PLEASE BEG YOUR PATIENCE HERE AS I RETIRE AND RETURN WITH A MORE THOROUGH ANSWER).

I know these are a ton of questions. It´s just that you´re so interesting, I could talk to you all day & night. This thread may hit 1000.

susi called you "he". My impression is that you are a woman. Can you say? Also, are girls more often targeted in mind control programs?

WOMEN HAVE LESS HEMISPHERIC LATERALIZATION THAN MEN (GENERALLY). HEMISPHERIC SPECIALIZATION IN MEN ALSO SEEMS TO BE A CO-FACTOR IN A HIGHER SUICIDE RATE FOR MEN IF, AND WHEN THE PROGRAMMING BREAKS DOWN OR AN INTERVENTION )DE-PROGRAMMING) OCCURS...THEY ARE AT A GREATER RISK FOR IMPLEMENTING PROGRAMMED-SUICIDES DURING ANY DE-PROGRAMMING ATTEMPTS AND HAVE TO BE MONITORED VERY CLOSELY. HOWEVER, IT HAS BEEN POSTULATED THAT MEN DON´T GENERALLY OPEN UP AND TALK ABOUT STUFF LIKE THIS...WOMEN TEND TO BE MORE OPEN..SO IT IS HARD TO TELL BY LOOKING AT STATISTICS DONE BY SURVEY.

ANOTHER FACTOR INVOLVES MITOCHONDRIA DNA...WHICH IS ONLY PASSED GENETICALLY BY THE FEMALE.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evidence of evil in the world appears to our senses in order to let us know the consequnces of the beliefs we hold.
- Seth
INTERESTING THOUGHT...


19

Sharon wrote;

Military type helicopters with dark window and can´t see in side. When you finally eyeball them they leave in my case going down a creek and then nothing.
No one comes out. You are the only witness, I go and tell my husband who was outside yet in front of the house. He said he heard nothing. When question later my a top name researcher, I was asked did I feel the wind from the propellars, and was there dirt being thrown up and the answer was no.

THAT IS INTERESTING. THERE ARE MILITARY HELICOPTERS THAT ARE OFTEN USED AS TRANSPORT VEHICLES TO CARRY ABDUCTEES FROM ONE LOCATION TO ANOTHER. OFTEN THEY WILL SCOOP UP ANY NUMBER OF (UNRELATED) ABDUCTEES IN "ONE RUN". DELIVERING THEM TO A SECURE LOCATION, SUCH AS A "PROGRAMMING CENTER" OR A COVERT INSTALLATION.
MANY OF THESE ARE UNDERGROUND. OFTEN, THERE WILL BE A FACADE, A "FRONT" BUSINESS OR SOME OTHER TYPE OF PLACE THAT LOOKS LIKE SOME INNOCUOUS LOCAL, BUT THERE WILL BE ACCESS ("A PORT OF ENTRY)) TO AN UNDERGROUND AREA.

I HAVE ONCE HEARD A SIMILAR STORY REGARDING A WITNESSED HELICOPTER EVENT, WHERE THERE WERE TWO WOMEN IN ONE ROOM (IN THERAPEUTIC SESSION) AND THEY BOTH HEARD THE SOUND OF A LARGE HELICOPTER RIGHT ABOVE THE OFFICE BUILDING, HOWEVER, THE PERSON OUTSIDE IN THE WAITING ROOM DID NOT. THEY THOUGHT THERE WAS SOME SORT OF PROJECTED SOUND BEING USED TO CREATE THAT EFFECT...I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS IN PARTICULAR...MY AREA OF EXPERTISE IS NOT ON COVERT/MILITARY HELICOPTERS....I JUST KNOW THAT THEY FUNCTION MOSTLY IN THE AREA OF TRANSPORT AND SECURITY. THERE ARE DEFINITE OCCASIONS WHERE THERE IS OVERT AND COVERT HARRASSMENT...BUT THIS IS MORE IN THE PSY-OPS CATEGORY.

FEMA (FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY) HAS A FLEET OF THESE AND PLAYS A ROLE IN ALL THIS AS WELL.

Fear would shoot threw me, I would go out side because the sound made me think that this helicopter was low and would raise up over the house any second. This went on for several weeks, then I started to notice that this chopper was anywhere from 500´ to 1000´ above me even though the sound sounded like it was very low

WELL, IT´S ONE WAY TO GET A PERSON OUTSIDE OF A HOUSE; SCOOPING THEM UP IS EASIER FOR A HELICOPTER TO DO, IF THEY ARE AWAY FROM A BUILDING.

Living in San Jose, you know how crowded this area is, and how much city there is.

THAT´S INTERESTING. I KNOW A LOT ABOUT SAN JOSE.
EVER HAVE ANY THING TO DO WITH THE ROSECRUCIAN CENTER?..OR SOMEONE ELSE IN YOUR FAMILY?

Living in San Jose, you know how crowded this area is, and how much city there is.

ALIENS ARE NOT FLYING THE HELICOPTERS;HUMANS ARE.
"WHY" HAS A LOT OF DIFFERENT REASONS, BUT AS I EXPLAINED ABOVE, THERE ARE LOGISTICAL REASONS AS HELICOPTERS CAN MOVE IN AND OUT OF URBAN AREAS AND HAVE TREMENDOUS FLEXIBILITY IN REGARD TO THEIR MANEUVERABILITY. SO THEY CAN PERFORM MULTI-FUNCTIONS IN ABDUCTION SCENARIOS THAT INCLUDE TRANSPORT AND SECURING PERIMETERS.

russadams wrote;

Okay, I´ll ask: Who exactly are the outside agencies controlling the greys that are in cahoots with the military/intel, and where are they from? Sorry, but I´d kick myself till the cows come home if I didn´t ask.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I CAN ANSWER IN THE WAY YOU WOULD PROBABLY LIKE, FOR VARIOUS REASONS, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH, IS A GOOD DEAL OF OPERANT CONDITIONING.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT THEY RESEMBLE US IN BASICALLY ALL THE WAYS A HUMAN LOOKS...HUMAN. THEY ARE GENERALLY GAUNT LOOKING AND HAVE WHAT APPEAR TO BE AN IDENTICAL APPEARANCE IN TERMS OF BEING RATHER SMALL (SHORT) AND GAUNT AND HAVE FACIAL FEATURES THAT LOOK SLIGHTLY ASIAN, BUT MORE IN TERMS OF THEIR EYES THAN ANYTHING ELSE. THEIR EYES, IN PARTICULAR HAVE AN "ELEMENT" THAT SETS THEM APART FROM US IN APPEARANCE, ALTHOUGH THIS MAY, OR MAY NOT, HAVE A BIOLOGICAL BASIS. THEY APPEAR TO HAVE A SKIN TONE THAT LOOKS OLIVE OR MAYBE THE COLOR OF A MEDIUM RANGE OLIVE OIL.
THE MALES LOOK LIKE THEY COULD BE "CLONES" OR IDENTICAL TO EACH OTHER, BUT THAT IS IN TERMS OF THEIR GENERAL APPEARANCE. THEY HAVE A NIHILISTIC THEOLOGY...IF YOU CAN CALL IT A THEOLOGY, AND YET AT THE SAME TIME, PARADOXICALLY, THEY ARE DRIVEN TOWARDS MEETING CERTAIN BIOLOGICAL NEEDS THAT REQUIRE HUMAN BIOLOGICAL "PRODUCT". IT APPEARS TO BE SOMEWHAT OF AN "ADDICTION" ON ONE LEVEL AND AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY FOR THEIR SURVIVAL ON ANOTHER.

THEY OPERATE ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY AT ONE PRIMARY "LEVEL" OR FOCUS, AND THAT IT SEEMS IS TO BE ONE OF AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY FOR THEM TO NEED HUMANS, AKIN TO A DEPENDENCY; WHILE AT THE SAME TIME THEY HAVE A SEVERE CONTEMPT AND DISLIKE FOR US...AS A RACE OR SPECIES.

IT APPEARS THAT THEY HAVE, AND MAY BE THE ORIGINATORS, OF SOME PRETTY SOPHISTICATED HIGH-TECH MIND CONTROL "APPLIANCES". ONE EXAMPLE OF THIS WOULD BE HEADGEAR THAT INTERACTS WITH HUMAN NEUROLOGY WITH INTENSE VISUAL STIMULATION AT A VERY VERY (CORE) DEEP LEVEL OF THE MIND/BRAIN. THIS WOULD APPEAR TO BE THE ORIGIN OF WHAT WE KNOW AS "VR" TECHNOLOGY (VIRTUAL REALITY). THERE ARE OTHER DEVICES AS WELL. THEY WELL UNDERSTAND THE HUMAN VISUAL CORTEX AND IT´S SENSITIVITY AND MUCH OF WHAT THEY USE TO CONTROL AND MANIPULATE UTILIZES "LIGHT" AND A CONFIGURATION INVOLVING ENERGETIC COMPONENTS, DESIGNED TO HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC "IMPACT" (EFFECT) ON HUMAN NEUROLOGY.

THEY ORGANIZE THEMSELVES WITHIN AN EXTREME HIERARCHY OF POWER AND CONTROL AND SEEM VERY MILITARISTC IN TERMS OF THEIR COMMAND AND CONTROL STRUCTURE.

THERE EXISTS ANOTHER HIERARCHY WITHIN A TRIAD OF RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN AGENDAS AND THAT INVOLVES INCLUSION AT VARIOUS LEVELS OF OTHER TYPES, WHOSE APPEARANCE LOOKS LESS LIKE THEY BELONG TO THIS RACIAL GROUP AND MORE LIKE HUMANS HERE, WITH SOME DISTINCTIONS IN TERMS OF HEIGHT AND COMPLEXION.

THERE IS A GENERAL ATMOSPHERE OF INTENSE OVERLAPPING AGENDAS HERE AND WHILE IT WOULD APPEAR TO BE HOMOGENEOUS IN IT´S ORGANIZATIONAL ASPECTS (AND HIERARCHY), THERE IS AN UNDERLYING TONE OF DISCORD ALONG "RACIAL" LINES AND A GOOD DEAL
OF DISTRUST AND INTRIGUE.

YOU HAVE TO THINK OF THIS AS KIND OF A "HIGHWAY" OF SORTS WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF HEAVY TRAFFIC AND CROSS-PURPOSES AND VARYING AGENDAS; SOME THAT OVERLAP AND SOME AT SEVERE ODDS WITH EACH OTHER.

THIS "ELEMENT" HAS A STATIONARY (PERMANENT) BASE ON THE SATELITE ORBITING OUR PLANET; WE CALL IT THE MOON.

(I NEED TO BREAK ON THIS TOPIC NOW...I CAN ONLY DO BRIEF PERIODS OF ACCESSING THIS INFORMATION DUE, ONCE AGAIN TO OPERANT CONDITIONING AND VARIOUS OTHER FACTORS. I CAN ANSWER MORE QUESTIONS ON THIS TOPIC LATER ON, IF ASKED.)

20

Susano;

smarts, the quote at the end of my posts, is from The Nature of Personal Reality: A Seth Book, by Jane Roberts. I think you´d like those books.

YES, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I WAS EXPOSED TO SOME OF THE MATERIAL IN THAT BOOK DURING CHILDHOOD "CONVERSATIONS" WITH WHAT APPEARED TO BE SPHERES OF LIGHT...THIS MATERIAL SEEMS TO BE OF COMMON INTEREST AMONG A VARIETY OF PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THIS AT VARIOUS LEVELS...

THANKS YOU FOR THE KIND AND GENEROUS WORDS...AND SENTIMENT, SUSANO...

I AM NOT SO SURE HOW BRAVE I AM...MORE BULLHEADED I GUESS...STUBBORN AND DEFIANT IS MY NATURE HAS ALWAYS BEEN TOWARDS RESISTING THIS SINCE CHILDHOOD. I WAS NOT AN EASY SELL. THERE IS AMPLE AMOUNT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION HERE THAT IS TAILORED TO THE INDIVIDUAL PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE OF THE PERSON (CHILD). IF THE CHILD CAN BE MANIPULATED USING POSITIVE PSYCHOLOGICAL ENSNAREMENT, THEY APPROACH THEM ON THAT LEVEL; HOWEVER, IF THAT FAILS, THEN, THERE IS A PROGRESSIVELY MORE HOSTILE APPROACH, UNTIL FINALLY ONE HAS TO MAKE A CHOICE BASED ON A "LIFE OR DEATH" PROPOSITION.

IN MY CASE, I WAS EXTREMELY WARY AND CONSTANTLY SCRUTINIZING THE "SCENARIOS" BEING PRESENTED. BECAUSE I QUESTIONED EVERYTHING, AS THEY CAME AT ME WITH ONE APPROACH AFTER ANOTHER...YOU KNOW THE "YOU ARE THE CHOSEN/WE NEED YOUR HELP/ OUR RACE IS DYING/ WE ARE HERE FOR THE GOOD OF MANKIND/WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS"...ETC., ETC., ETC.

FINALLY, WHEN I HAD EXHAUSTED THEM IN THEIR ATTEMPTS TO ENTICE ME THROUGH EMOTIONAL MANIPULATION OR HUMANITARIAN THEMES...THEY FINALLY PRESENTED THEIR "PROPOSITION" IN THE FORM OF..."COME WITH US OR DIE"...AND, BEING NO REAL CHOICE AT ALL; SINCE I WAS/ AND STILL AM SOMEWHAT ATTACHED TO THIS BODY AND THIS LIFE...WELL, HERE I AM. I HAVE IN THE PAST, OFTEN WONDERED IF I HAD ONLY TAKEN THE OTHER "OPTION" IN THE DEAL...THAT IT MIGHT HAVE WORKED OUT BETTER FOR ME.

(THE "COME WITH US OR DIE" EXAMPLE IS AN INTERESTING POINT OF CLEAR UNDERSTANDING REGARDING THE TRUE NATURE OF WHO THEY REALLY ARE...AT LEAST I THINK SO AND THOUGHT SO AS A CHILD. IN ONE WAY, I ALREADY "KNEW" WHO THEY WERE...AS THEY "KNEW" EXACTLY WHO I WAS...AND SEEMED THREATENED BY ME SOMEHOW, BUT TO THIS DAY, I AM UNSURE AS TO WHY, SINCE THEY SEEMED ALSO TO BE IN TOTAL CONTROL.)

AS FAR AS CATTLE MUTILATIONS...WELL, THIS IS PROBLEMATIC TO DISCUSS...FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS. I HAVE LIMITED KNOWLEDGE HERE...AND SOME DEGREE OF TROUBLE ACCESSING MORE THAN I WANT TO KNOW...OH, THAT SOUNDS STRANGE DOESN´T IT? THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT HAD SOME EXTREME UGLINESS AND DISCUSSIONS OF IT MIGHT BE DISTURBING TO PEOPLE...I FEEL I HAVE ALREADY MADE MORE THAN A FEW PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE READING THESE POSTS...ANYWAY, I HAVE TO GO NOW...WILL BE BACK LATER ON TO TRY AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION.


21

susi t learn wrote;

smart

there has been a lot of discussion on this board about the possible criteria for abduction. many seem to think people who have Celtic/Native American blood are prone.

any info regarding that?


Yes, susi t learn. That fact has been mentioned in some ufo/abducton literature...and I have noticed a pattern also in my own research among abductees.

One of the things that I didn´t mention about the first group I was referring to in the last post, is that, my mother, who actually saw them once when I was very little, referred to them (about 30 years later) as "the red-faced people".
I have a memory of this experience with her; it may be a factor regarding some condition with them as to a change in their skin color when they are in the earth environs, or it could be my mother´s perception as she experienced them to be angry...which they seem to have as their general disposition (their facial expression seems to be in a perpetual grimace). I am not able to say...other than to speculate....wildly. It is possible there is a connection (genetically) somehow to Native Americans regarding this group...but it would be high speculation to go there without tangible evidence...and we certainly don´t have that, do we?

The profile for what makes person a good candidate for abduction is drawn more from criteria involving other factors...but genetic linkage is still a prominent issue; genetics and the other factors I am referring to are related directly (no pun intended) to who is abductable and who is not. Celtic peoples and people with Native American blood would naturally be more abductable because of these other factors that have nothing to do with any genetic link to these beings.

(By the way, I had a full-blooded Native American woman staying in my house one time who started screaming in the middle of the night and claimed she had seen what would be described as a grey standing in the hallway. She was so hysterical that she ran down the street in her night gown and it took me an hour to get her back inside the house.)

I will clarify this topic/question in my next post.


22

Disneyland is a major programming site.

Whose idea was it to go to Disneyland?

Was it your husband´s or daughter´s or your´s?

Where exactly WAS your husband when you didn´t see him in the room?

What exactly did he do in that secret military unit you mentioned in your earlier post?

I´m not sure what happened but we went on with the rest of our night and had a good time

Why aren´t you sure what happened next? Did you have missingtime at this point?

Did your grandson and granddaughter (his sister) stay with you all the time at Disneyland or did you separate?

Did your husband stay with you or did you separate? If so, who did your husband go with?

The best we can do with our children is let them know we understand, and know when to shut up. They will clam up usually after telling you the first time.
I wish I could say I figure out how to stop it, but I have not.
Sharon...lol

Sorry, that´s the worst thing you can do...

I have suggested what you can do to help your grandson...he is only fourteen and he is aware of his abductions and has threshold memories and pieces of programmed recall, and what sounds like immediate recall. Most young people who are being messed with IN THIS MANNER at that age don´t know it and some never remember.

As I mentioned earlier in several posts directed to you, if the trance/programming can be broken through now and the amnesiac barriers breached, it´s a good possibility he would become useless to them. Since he is only fourteen and would be useless to them in terms of being operational, it would not be worth it to them to keep messing with him.
He would however, be monitored for a few years because of data he has in his head, but if he could be worked with by a skilled clinical hypnotist to come up out of trance, they couldn´t take him.

He could get out. The older he gets the harder it will be...I explained what processes that would be of help and who (what kind of practitioner) could help him...I even provided referrals for you to get the names of people in your area who could help with this and the types of techniques to look for in their resume.

In fact, if you live in San Jose, Ca., (as you mentioned in a previous post) I know someone who is not only highly skilled, but quite knowledgable in this specific area. he is located in San Jose. His name is David Finstermaker. He is listed in the phone directory...or can be looked up through a referral service (try EMDR organizations or psychologists referrals). He specializes in EMDR, but also uses other cutting edge techniques, including, I believe hypnosis.. He is quite good, I know this from first hand contact. He knows all about this stuff. He may have relocated, but if he is still there and practicing, you couldn´t find anyone better.
if you could get your grandson in to work with this guy, your grandson would most probably be able to break free of this crap.

This is intergenerational...it won´t stop, unless you and your children and their children take an active stance to stop it.

Now you have information towards that end, so you can´t use the excuse of not knowing what to do anymore. Good Luck. If you cannot locate Finstermaker, mention it in a future post and I will look to see if I can get a number for you (I have since moved and do not know where it is...but I could look for it.)

Whether you believe me, or think I am nuts, or whatever is not relevant, call this man and find out for yourself what you can do to stop this; prayer is wonderful, but it will not stop what is happening to your children´s children.

You not helpless, and allowing yourself to think so helps no one.

All The Best-OSR


23

enigma;

OSR...are you a Nader person
not swayed by the party line
from the dems?

No. I think Nader´s a crank...and he´s a lawyer, besides. Who needs another lawyer in Washington?!

By the way, you might be interested, since you seem to be savvy to the intel racket and its players;

The whole McGreavy thing (New Jersey GOV+ GAY+retiring)...the Israeli he supposedly had an affair with smells of MOSSAD...check it out.

(Message edited by onesmartrat on August 20, 2004)


24

russadams;(thanks for your nice compliment in previous post)


THEY ARE DRIVEN TOWARDS MEETING CERTAIN BIOLOGICAL NEEDS THAT REQUIRE HUMAN
BIOLOGICAL "PRODUCT". IT APPEARS TO BE SOMEWHAT OF AN "ADDICTION" ON ONE LEVEL AND AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY FOR THEIR SURVIVAL ON ANOTHER.

Can you elaborate on this a little? I´m guessing that the human biological "would" be reproductive materials, but is there more to it?

They are after blood...and a hormone produced in the endocrine system.

The mil/intel are the ones using the reproductive materials...if they are being used at all.

OSR, the greys are the only beings that I´m personally familiar with, but many people have posted here about others, such as Reptilian, Mantis-types, Nordics, and I´m wondering if you have familiarity and/or contact with any of those.

There are no grasshoppers flying spaceships...that´s part of the mirage. Reptilians; repsmilians...mirage, subtefuge...remember Oz? The man behind the curtain is much less scarier than his shadow, isn´t he? ...

There are humans; humanoids; and more human looking humans...the tall blonds may be authentic...but I doubt they are from Norway. They seem more like they are from some Nazi´s wetdream.

I´m going to start writing "enigma-style"...this is fun!


25

Susano...and Susi;

I have written on the subject of what criteria is used to choose abductees...it discusses this genetic aspect...it is connected to all this...but not the way most people think. I may post it here or open up a special thread on the subject...I have a lot of material and it explains exactly who is chosen why and how the whole abduction scenario occurs and how people do what they do (abductees) and why certain things go on in abductions, etc.,

I had planned on posting it tonight, but the computer that THAT MATERIAL IS ON JUST HAPPEN TO CRASH..OOOPS!

WILL BEGIN POSTING THIS STUFF ASAP...I THINK YOU´LL BE VERY INTERESTED IN WHAT I HAVE TO SAY ON THIS TOPIC.

(Susano..thanks so much for your lovely "note"...)


26

Quan Yin;

Do you have a background in the occult? Just wondering...some of your posts are very savvy in the area of metaphysics...I still want to talk to you about that "angel" business...but I have so many other questions here...

Oh, by the way, you want to have a little fun with those black copters...go out and get your self one of those super bright halogen (sp?) flashlights, then learn MORSE CODE (it´s easy) for the following phrase:

K I S S M Y A ##!!!


(and then deliver that message via flashlight to your copter friends.)


27

graciesmom;

OSR, I´ve had several sessions of EMDR, but unfortunately, the therapist (a social worker) did NOT believe in alien abductions. I told her I wanted to explore what happened to me and my twin brother, but when I got as far as seeing him on some sort of a table to my left, screaming and reaching for me, she stopped the session! Pissed me off. She tried to tell me that it was only my memory of him having to go to the hospital TWO YEARS EARLIER with possible meningitis. I did NOT go to the hospital with him! She insisted my memory was a "sympathetic twin thing." She refused to explore the issue any further. Oh, I had the kind of EMDR where they put a buzzer in each hand and they alternate the buzzing. I wonder if they doesn´t work as well.

YES. INDEED, NOT EVERYONE WITH APAIR OF SCISSORS IN THEIR HANDS KNOWS HOW TO GIVE A GOOD HAIRCUT.

THAT´S WHY IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO BE DISCERNING IN FINDING SOMEONE EXTRA QUALIFIED IB BOTH SKILL AND AWARENESS...IT IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT...BUT CAN BE DONE. YOU JUST CAN´T OPEN A PHONE BOOK AND GO TO THE FIRST PERSON YOU SEE.

THE NAME I GAVE SHARON IS SOMEONE WHO IS A MASTER TECHNICIAN AND WHO KNOWS ALL ABOUT THIS STUFF. THIS MAN IS SUPERB AND WOULD BE WELL WORTH HER EFFORT TO HELP HER GRANDSON...AND PERHAPS THE REST OF HER FAMILY (INCLUDING THE GRANDDAUGHTER WHO IS OBVIOUSLY BEING VIOLATED REPEATEDLY).

IT MAY NOT BE AN ACCIDENT THAT SHARON DECIDED TO POST HERE..AND CONTINUES TO RELATE THESE STORIES HERE IN THIS FORUM AND THAT (I BELIEVE) SHE IS FROM THE SAN JOSE AREA...AND I KNOW THE NAME OF A MAN WHO LIVES AND WORKS THERE(ONE OF THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY) WHO CAN ASSIST HER AND HER GRANDSON, AND FAMILY.

COINCIDENCE OR PROVIDENCE?

I GUESS THE REST IS UP TO HER.

I AM SORRY YOU HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE, GRACIESMOM, BUT IF YOU´VE ONLY HAD ONE BAD EXPERIENCE, THEN YOU´RE AHEAD OF THE GAME!


28

Disneyland is an infamous major cult programming center.

It is also one of H.Kissinger´s fav haunting grounds, and he is a major handler of programmed people...and he has a penchant for little boys. His fav ride to use in programming is supposedly Pirates of The Carribean. I know someone who insists he saw him there in his childhood.Several people who have reported this kind of experience have also named him as a primary abuser/handler.

Walt Disney was up to his neck in all this occult/programming business, He was also a reported pedofile.

The entire complex is designed for programming purposes. The fact that Sharon had "abduction scenario" occurring there is no surprise. She didn´t keep "waking up, as she writes it, she was porpoising up out of trance. She was actively involved in what was going on there in an alterered dissociated state that operates outside of her normal waking consciouness. She was trained to do this...conditioned to do it. It just didn´t happen to her suddenly. They are now using the same process to train those kids.People were waiting for her and her family...they knew she was coming.

I suspect she has someone in the family who is consciously involved in all this and is handling her and her children/grandchildren. This is the case is a good number of cases. Close family members and/ or friends will often be handling the person, unbeknownst to them.

The focus however, in Disneyland, was on those children as they were the targets for some intensive programming sessions and basically some severe abuse to keep their minds from remembering what really happened. It was no accident there was an "ufo sighting" there. This was done to overlay cover for the impending trauma and give the mind a pre-designed story about it.

It is unfortunate that I am limited within this forum in attempting to explain all this...it is a process that must be understood in order to accept information about WHO and WHY...one must understand HOW it can happen...how an individual person´s mind and body do what they do in these situations.

Abductions don´t just happen to people. People are actively involved in their own abductions. This is not consciously understood because people have been fed a load of crap about all this and don´t really understand just how their own minds work... and choose instead to adopt magical thinking or belief in "alien magic" to explain what happens, because it is safer for them. It is not their fault...they bascically have been inculcated into a "new religion".

I can´t tell you how many people I have talked to, who have had "abductions" and other types of bizarre scenarios occurring at Disneyland. I have my own experience there, in a hotel nearby, where I was interrogated by two FBI agents under slow administration of sodium amytal. I was eight years old. I remember this, but have no memory of Disneyland at all.

Disneyland is the perfect place to do all this because it is fairytales come alive. It is classic cult-programming. Create fantasy upon fantasy and get people to believe that Mickey Mouse is real. The themes behind many of the rides (and the analogue stories) are used as part of the programmers toolbox to create the internal world of the child´s DID system. It is used to create everything from access cues (codes) to suicide programs...all beneath the conscious awareness.

I can talk more on this later. I have some material I have written that help people understand this...but it needs to be discussed in a very stepped sequence because people cannot recognize something if they can´t actually see it.

I feel like telling people that Disneyland is an evil place is like putting down Santa Claus or burning a flag. Without other information to show what is going on here...it is just way out there for most...and then I lose credibility.


29

enigma;

lately a gay lover of the israeli
dude has come out of the woodwork, saying he ain´t straight...thusly contradicting what the lad´s lawyer told the press

Yeah, this guy is supposedly a doctor and he claims to be on the CIA payroll...need I say more.

This is classic Mosssad blackmail case gone south. The Mosssad are heavy operators in this country. They are all over the place like rats...so, not insulting my own namesake. They are nasty when it comes to getting what they want...this stinks to high heaven of a set-up and I found it "interesting" that it all came on the heels of the recent Gestapo scare (Homeland Security) which included New Jersey as a primary target.
I have had my own experience with them (Mosssad) and this is exactly the kind of stuff they do...they make the CIA look like boy scouts.


30

I am sorry, folks but this is exactly what I am talking about...

Aztec wrote;



It´s a way the alien guardians make the parents and human guardians pay more attention to their children in vulnerable situations.

UH HUH, LIKE THE WAY PEDOPHILES AND MISSING AND MURDERED CHILDREN DO. WITH THIS RATIONALE, PARENTS SHOULD BE JUST AS GRATEFUL TO PEDOPHILIACS AND CHILD KILLERS...?

Inside the spacecraft there was a young girl in a cage. It was all done to make him think more about his own young daughter

AND WHAT EXACTLY WAS THE "LESSON" THE ALIENS WERE TRYING TO TEACH THE YOUNG GIRL IN THE CAGE...I WONDER?

THIS SOUNDS LIKE A TECHNIQUE USED IN TRAUMA-BASED PPROGRAMMING KNOWN AS "TRAUMA-BONDNG".

Don´t think for a moment that you are responsible for doing any abductions

I NEVER SAID SHARON WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR DOING ABDUCTIONS...SHE IS AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT;NOT A MIND CONTROLLED ZOMBIE.

The military visit me often and try to make me keep quiet about all of the alien controllers.

APPARENTLY THEIR VISITS AREN´T WORKING...

They know that humans would not be able to endure the truth. They are the good guys in a way because they try to keep people away from the knowledge that would destroy this world as we know it.

KNOWLEDGE THAT WOULD DESTROY THEIR WORLD OF THE EXPLOITATION THROUGH CONTROL AND MANIPULATION OF GOOD PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

There was a woman here who went to work and noticed an extra dimension to everything. The office looked deeper than normal and the workers were all non-human entities. Time stood still and she accomplished a vast amount of work in no time at all. What happened to her was that her veil was temporarily lifted and she saw reality, the controllers underneath the mask. It happens a lot and people find that there are aliens inside them.

HARD TO TELL FROM THIS DESCRIPTION WHAT HAPPENED TO HER...PSYCHOTIC EPISODE? OR A TRIGGERED "SWITCH" INTO AN ALTER STATE. THE "TIME COMPRESSION" IS A CLUE, AS THAT IS A CLASSIC FEATURE OF AN HYPNOTICALLY INDUCED TRANCE STATE AND SUGGESTION; IT´S A STANDARD IN ANY GOOD HYPNOTISTS TOOLBOX.

BE INTERESTED TO KNOW WHAT COMPANY SHE WORKED FOR...ANY CHANCE IT WAS AN AEROSPACE CORP?

It happens a lot and people find that there are aliens inside them.

CLASSIC DID/MPD.


The human is a separate entity that is supposed to experience virtual reality worlds

VIRTUAL REALITY IS A SYNTHETIC REALITY. IT´S HIGH TECH MAKE-BELIEVE.

ACCORDING TO WHO IS THIS A REQUIRED EXPERIENCE OF BEING HUMAN?...CREATING INTERNAL VIRTUAL REALITY WORLDS IS PART OF WHAT THE PROGRAMMERS DO USING VARIOUS TECHNIQUES INCLUDING TORTURE, SEXUAL ABUSE AND VR TECHNOLOGY. IT IS A WAY FOR THE CHILD TO SURVIVE THE TORMENT; BY ESCAPING INTO A "VIRTUAL WORLD" INSIDE THEIR HEAD AND DISSOCIATING FROM THE EXTERNAL TANGIBLE REALITY OF HORROR.

That´s why I believe children should be protected from the truth until they are old enough to decide for themselves if they want to seek it out.

THE MIND OF THE CHILD WILL INDEED PROTECT ITSELF FROM THE TRUTH...THIS IS A NATURAL DEFENSE MECHANISM OF THE HUMAN MIND. WHAT HAPPENS HERE IS THAT THEY COUNT ON THAT; PEOPLE WITH MEDICAL/PSYCHIATRIC KNOWLEDGE UNDERSTAND THAT AND MANIPULATE THE HECK OUT OF IT BY OVER LAYING (DURING THE TORTURE PROCESS)FALSE "SCREEN" MEMORIES AND INCULCATING DOUBLE-BINDING BELIEFS INTO THE DISSOCIATED PARTS OF THE MIND. WHEN A CHILD DISCOVERS THE TRUTH, IT IS HIGHLY UNUSUAL AND MEANS THAT EITHER SOMEONE HAS INTERVENED TO STOP THE ABUSE, OR THEY ARE COMING OUT OF THEIR CONDITIONED TRANCE LONG ENOUGH TO RETAIN SOME THREADS OF MEMORY.

Every shrink or investigator will tamper with your child´s mind and make life difficult for them

HMMM, WELL, EVEN IF THAT WAS TRUE, I NEVER RECOMMENDED SHARON TAKE THE KID TO A SHRINK...AS MANY ARE INVOLVED IN THIS; THAT WOULD BE TOO RISKY AND EVEN THE ONES THAT AREN´T, CANNOT RISK THEIR PROFESSIONAL STANDING. WITH ONE EXCEPTION :COLIN ROSS, M. D. (ROSS INSTITUTE).

It´s like the girl who was hypnotized and a voice of an entity like God started speaking through her, telling the hypnotists to leave the child alone or it would take her spirit away and leave them the dead body. She was hypnotized but her guardian was still in full control of her, and that is what happens during hypnotism.

THE PROGRAMMERS USE DIFFERENT METHODS TO THWART ANY ATTEMPTS TO GAIN ACCESS TO THESE INDIVIDUAL´S MINDS, PARTICULARLY OTHER THERAPISTS OR HYPNOTISTS. MANY PROGRAMMED PEOPLE WILL HAVE VARIOUSLY THEMED ALTER-SYSTEMS...DEPENDING ON THE PERSONALITY PROFILE AND THE FAMILY BACKGROUND OF THE CHILD. ALIEN ABDUCTIONS IS JUST ONE THEME. DEMONIC-LAYERING IS A COMMON FEATURE OF THIS, AND IS USUALLY FOUND AT THE DEEPER STATES OF TRANCE ALTERS. ANY ATTEMPT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON USING HYPNOSIS (PARTICULARLY SOMEONE WITH NO EXPERIENCE OF THIS) MAY ELICITE AN AUTOMATIC "SWITCH" INTO A "PROTECTIVE HOSTILE ALTER" STATE THAT WILL MIMIC A DEMONIC POSSESSION AND RESIST FURTHER PROBING. IT IS INTENDED TO CONVINCE ALL INVOLVED; INCLUDING THE PERSON THEMSELVES, THAT THIS (DEMONIC POSSESSION, VOICE OF A SPIRIT OR "GOD" OR ENLIGHTENED BEING, ETC., ETC.) IS WHAT IS OCCURRING. MANY (NOT ALL) CASES OF EXORCISMS INADVERTENTLY INVOLVE PROGRAMMED DID/MPD PEOPLE.

HEY, THE PEOPLE THAT DO THIS STUFF ARE CULT BASED...OFCOURSE RELIGIOUS BELIEF COMES INTO THIS...

The people are placed into a trance and other entities speak through them and fool the hypnotists completely.

EXACTLY.


Then the hypnotists teach the people stuff that is not fact and is just what the entities want people to believe.

THE HYPNOTIST IS MOST CASES ARE JUST AS BAFFLED ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON THEN ANYONE ELSE, UNLESS THEY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO THIS, ARE ALREADY INVOLVED AS A PROGRAMMER/HANDLER, OR ARE SO HIGHLY SKILLED AND EXPERIENCED THAT THEY RECOGNIZE THE DISSOCIATED SWITCH INTO THE ALTER STATES AND ARE ABLE TO WORK THROUGH IT. THIS IS VERY RARE, BUT IT HAS HAPPENED...SEE D.CORYDON HAMMOND; "THE GREENBAUM GREENBOMB) SPEECH"

We see that military powers and all are working for the aliens but it´s not their own fault, they are just being used because they are closer to 3d than the alien controllers. We could destroy every secret power on the earth and yet the aliens would still have full control from behind the veil. Some of their works would cease for a while that´s all

CLASSIC MIND CONTROL BELIEF PARADIGM ENFORCING THE POWERLESS/HELPLESS/HOPELESS SENSE OF SELF AND THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE ALL POWERFUL. YOU COULD SUBSTITUTE THE WORD "GODS" OR "GIANTS",OR EVEN "PARENTS" ETC., INSTEAD OF "ALIENS" AND HAVE THE SAME EFFECT. THIS IS ESSENTIAL TO THE CONTROL; THE PERSON ( AS THE CHILD ORIGINALLY) MUST VOLUNTARILY GIVE UP THEIR OWN PERSONAL AUTONOMY...AND THEY ARE FED THESE BELIEFS (AND THEY ARE REINFORCED THROUGH VARIOUS FORMS OF MEDIA) TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CONTINUE TO GIVE IT UP. ONCE A PERSON BEGINS TO TAKE THEIR AUTONOMY BACK, THE WHOLE RELATIONSHIP CHANGES AND THEY BECOME MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO CONTROL AND MANIPULATE, ALTHOUGH, UNTIL THEY HAVE CO-CONSCIOUSNESS AT THE DEEPEST LEVELS, THEY ARE STILL VULNERABLE.

I´m not against seeking the truth and all, i´m just against the idea of involving children in our research

THE CHILDREN ARE ALREADY INVOLVED IN THIS; THAT´S WHEN IT ALWAYS BEGINS IN CHILDHOOD. IT HAS TO; "ALIEN ABDUCTIONS" WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE UNLESS THIS EXTREME CONDITIONING STARTS IN CHILDHOOD. THE DISSOCIATIVE STATES THAT MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR ONE TO BE ABDUCTED ARE ONLY ACHIEVABLE BY TRAUMATIC PROCESS PSYCHOLOGICALLY ON HUMANS WHO HAVEN´T FULLY ACQUIRED A SELF-IDENTIFIED EGO STATE SEPARATE FROM THEIR PARENT(S). PEOPLE, ADULTS, WHO HAVE NOT BEEN PRIOR CONDITIONED IN THEIR CHILDHOOD VIA DELIBERATE PROGRAMMING OR SPONTANEOUS CHILD ABUSE AND/OR INCEST CANNOT BE SUBJECT TO ALIEN ABDUCTIONS.

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE TO ADDRESS EXACTLY THE MECHANICS OF WHAT HAPPENS TO A PERSON UNDERGOING THESE EVENTS AND HOW IT IS DONE...IN ORDER TO UNDO IT AND PUT AN END TO THIS FOR OUR CHILDREN AND THEIR CHILDREN´S CHILDREN.

WE ARE INTELLIGENT POWERFUL BEINGS. WE HAVE MINDS THAT ARE CAPABLE OF EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENTS. WE DON´T NEED "ALIENS" TO BE OUR "CONTROLLERS" OR GIVE US SPIRITUAL ENLIGHTENMENT. WE NEED TO GROW UP IN OUR CHILDLIKE-MINDS INCULCATED IN MAGICAL THINKING AND FALSE BELIEFS DESIGNED TO KEEP US EMOTIONALLY DEPENDENT (AND PLIABLE) IN ORDER TO CONTROL AND MANIPULATE US TO MEET THE NEEDS OF OTHERS..."ALIEN" OR OTHERWISE.

THERE IS NO RATIONAL LOGICAL ARGUEMENT THAT CAN TWIST THIS INTO "BEING GOOD FOR US"...THAT IS THE RATIONALE THAT CHILD ABUSERS USE AND THAT THEIR VICTIMS ADOPT TO STAY PSYCHOLOGICALLY SAFE IN THE FACE OF POWERLESSNESS. CHILDREN HAVE NO REAL POWER IN THE WORLD; ADULTS DO. OUR JOB IN PROTECTING THEM BEGINS BY CONFRONTING OUR OWN ADOPTED POWERLESSNESS...AND GROW UP OUT OF IT EMOTIONALLY.

IN THAT RESPECT, WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR ALIEN ABDUCTIONS.


31

russadams! GOOD QUESTION.

Abductions don´t just happen to people. People are actively involved in their own abductions.

I sort of suspected as much. Aside from trusted friends or family members being involved as handlers, have you found that many people know in advance when they are about to be abducted? Perhaps they inadvertently aid the abductors by "medicating" themselves or drinking themselves unconscious, thinking that they won´t have to deal with the fear and surreality of the situation? I´m just making a semi-educated guess but it´s possible that I misassessed the information

NO. THEY COUNT ON THE FEAR AS A TRIGGER MECHANISM TO SWITCH INTO A PRE-CONDIONED DISSOCIATED STATE (ALTER). BEING DRUNK OR STONED THROWS A MONKEY WRENCH INTO THE MECHANISM AND MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM. THEY DON´Y GENERALLY TAKE PEOPLE IN THIS CONDITION...THEY CAN´T PULL IT OFF.


32

russadams;

I am making this as short as I can ´cause I am actually on a break, here. Been very ill the past couple of days...need to revitalize.

Your grandfathers on your maternal side may indeed be your link to all this stuff. Although modern day Masonry bears little resemblance to it´s origins...there is a link. That link actually takes one on an unexpected and somewhat bizarre route into to another "Cult" in today´s world.

The maternal bloodline is a key link to all of this...your intuition serves you well. You do know that the Klu Klux Klan, is itself an off-shoot of occult societies connected to not only Masonry, but Pirates and Knights Templars. Let me qualify that by saying "modern day" Knights Templars...as my direct ancestor was the original founder of the original nine Knight Templars, I feel obliged to point this out.

I believe it was Chris b that asked about the occult/cult connection to all this...I just hadn´t had a chance to catch up to that question. I have had so many others.

The abduction phenomenon (alien) is rooted in the occult. It essentially is an occult phenomenon.

Aztec, unfortunately, is an example of someone who is been completely bound by them...entranced...bewitched. He/she cannot step out of the paradigm that binds him/her long enough (if at all) without having a tremendous sense of a lack of control. He/she needs to have THAT story be true in order to maintain psychologial/emotional homeostasis. He/she is not at fault here....most programmed people will respond the same way...they cannot help it.


We are talking about life and death trauma that these (us) people were subjected to...it was/is trauma that is beyond the person´s (child´s, as we were children when this occurred) ability to withstand...which is why we literally "left ourselves" to escape it. Our minds had to create a refuge, and along with the skilled technicians, (many of whom were/are doctors) who exploited this natural survival skill, they used our own creativeness as a weapon against us...in the "Big Picture" of things that is...

Human beings are responsible for the Alien Abduction phenomenon. Regardless of whether or not here are actually "aliens" (I myself have made reference to this as a given), they could not have pulled this whole thing off without Human Complicity. You need only look at every occupied oppressed nation on the Earth to see the same model for this...take the Roman occupation of Palestein...the Jews were actively complicit in their own oppression....and you can find references to this fact in the authentic teachings of the man now known a Jesus....who, in actuality, was a radical social psychological/emotional revolutionary, much more than a passive lamb-like sage, as he is so represented in our culture. Not all Jews were directly complicit (but all were accountable), ofcourse, but enough in certain social positions of power and wealth, that allowed, through their complicity, the Romans to maintain their occupation....which is why Jesus had to go...he was a threat to THOSE PEOPLE AND THE STATUS QUO and a threat to their own personal greed and power lust. Most of these, even, believed their own "story".

What Jesus taught was threatening to "their story" and the story that held the whole dynamic of occupation and oppression in place...and that was that THEY WERE POWERLESS AND HELPLESS AGAINST THE MIGHT OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE...when the truth was that they actively worked to empower and maintain it (the Roman Empire).

Jesus broke the "mass-trance-story-paradigm" by using searing perceptual insights delivered in creative and compassionate interaction that forced the shadow-mind of each individual to examine itself (outside of the "story/belief) and to reveal it as it self as the progenitor of False Truth, thus and holding them each individually accountable for their own enslavement, instead of blaming it on someone else aka...the "evil" Romans.

He created a revolutionary dynamic of reflective thought process which threatened to topple an empire without ever picking up a weapon or enticing others to do so.

I would ask Aztec, if he/she thinks that Jesus was also "controlled" by aliens, as well? Or anyone else who refuses to submit to the self-delusion of their own egos...?

(sorry, I got off subject...I got carried away in my example)

Part of the problem in solving the mystery of alien abductions or cattle mutilations, etc., is that we are looking skyward because of the stories we hear and are told and that we ourselves believe, instead of looking right in front of us; right in front of our very own eyes here on Earth.

Hey, we all have stories...I have ´em, everyone has ´em...the difference is in knowing that what may be happening, or what has or will be, may not be exacTly what you think and believe...based on the "story" we have about it. The way to discern this difference, is to emotionally step our own story long to let us cognitively examine the true nature of what we are holding in question through focussing on underlying structure and the dynamic of the experience from an analytical and rationale perspective and approach.

This does not dis-allow Intuitive Thought, to the contrary, Intuitive Perception is an Integral part of a comprehensive and verifiable conscious accessing of knowledge from intangible informational source contained within the structural dynamic of the "principle"(subject, design, event, person, etc., etc.),in theorem or in actuality, of that is being examined (studied).

Susano;

William Copper is an interesting person to study. I once had a workshop ticket to hear him speak at a ufo expo years ago. I never actually got to it, as I was in another one that ran on too late.

The title of the workshop was "JFK; THe Killing of The King; the Occult Aspects of Dealy Plaza".

Years later, and much remembered life experience...I went to Dealy Plaza in Dallas and was blown away (no pun intended) by the Ritual Aspects both architecturally and geographically of the area. It is unbelievable even when you know how to recognize this occult stuff...it´s right out in the open under people´s noses...but without the key occult understanding and experience with the symbology (the cult´s obsessed with it!), you wouldn´t even suspect it.

The Kenedy Assassination was a High Ritual Sacrifice Killing referred to in the occult as the "Killing of The King".

Even though I never did get to his workshop, I know Cooper was onto the truth in all this...and ultimately I believe, one way or the other, that is what did him in...psychologically and emotionally. I also believe he himself had been subjected to the trauma programming as a child.

I will talk about the Cattle Mutilations...and probably even the "Egypt thing"...I know people have been asking about these things on this and on other threads. Right now, I am just trying to get well, and get my personal laptop back to working so I can access all the wealth of information that I have written in the past; describing in detail just HOW all this works and where it leads and what it´s all about. It´s alot of stuff and it´s got to be discussed one step at a time.

You all have you own very valuable insights here and I greatly appreciate the interest and the opportunity to discuss all of this...we are all on a path...I might be a little further down the path so I can see things and report back...but you all have crucial information that helps me verify this stuff by re-confirming the patterns and the universality of experience. YOU HAVE KNOW STUFF TOO, JUST LIKE ME, BUT YOU JUST HAVEN´T REMEMBERED IT...YET. You all keep me honest with myself and I have learned much from this thread myself....and I THANK ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS...Aztec too! I guess we all should thank Sharon for starting this one! What a can of worms she has inadvertently opened!

Ok. I need to rest and get well. I will end this post with one of my favorite quotes from a man who knew all about control, and oppression, and complicity in one´s own enslavement. His name was Frederick Douglas, and he was a brilliant Orator and Statesman..... and, an American Slave.

I dedicate this quote to Aztec;

"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by those whom they would oppress."

-Frederick Douglas


33

Sharon wrote;

Have been keeping up with the posts, and all of the subjects being talked about.
Here are some of my thoughts of where some of this information is coming from.
Secret Majestic 12.
Men in Black.
Mojave files.
Rockefeller, Secret Treaty.
Royal Blood,
Black Budget,
Branton RV- the grays.
Project Redbook.
Pandora´s Box, Denver Airport.
Secret Societys, New World Order.
The Controllers.
Demonic Possessions, similarities of enigma

Personally, I resent your assertion that all of the information posted here is being plagiarized from those sources. I am telling what I know from my experience and personal knowledge, and I assume everyone else is...unless another source is quoted from. I always refer to other sources if I am quoting from them. i have not been quoting from any of the sources you mention...or any other. Nor am I familiar with any of these internet sources listed here.

It´s extremely distressing and sad that you have the power to stand up and be the adult and take a proactive stance against the rape and torture of your children.

I an sorry, but you are accountable in your actions and inactions in this matter. Doubting the veracity of the information posted here is meaningless, and irrelevant, in light of these stories that you relay about the abuse being done to your grandchildren (and you). WHO GIVES A DA## WHAT, WHO, WHEN, WHERE...HOW it´s happening is the key here. The first step in stopping this begins with taking the initiative and the proper steps by getting these kids some help! I gave you the name of a man with above average skills and solid reputation WHO KNOWS HOW THIS IS BEING DONE AND KNOWS HOW TO HELP STOP IT... and who is, I believe, in your area. Call him and talk to him...what you are afraid of is part of the programming.

Did you even read that post?

CALL HIM OR DON´T,SHARON, I DON´T CARE, BUT DON´T ACCUSE PEOPLE (ME AND OTHERS) OF TAKING STORIES OFF THE INTERNET (OR OTHER PLACES) AND POSTING THEM HERE ON THIS THREAD UNDER FALSE PRETENSES AND ULTERIOR MOTIVES.. It´s insulting and, frankly, much undeserved.

You or your children will never be free as long as your live continue in a psychological/emotional prison.

What more evidence do you need outside of these "episodes" you are relaying here?


34

Yeah, well, Mercury in retrograde is usually a good thing for me...

Sharon, I think that the grammatical structure you use, combined with the recurring themes of feeling helpless and not knowing what to do, is creating some considerable degree of misunderstanding on my part. For that, I am sorry. However, this is how you began THAT post in question (followed by a list of themes or web titles?):

Here are some of my thoughts of where some of this information is coming from...

Ok, so apparently I am the only one that read it literally.

The stories about your grandchildren are disturbing...maybe I am over-sensitive to it... but I can tell you it is a valid concern.

I have a real short fuse where it comes to children in harm´s way...it really gets to me...and I am a Taurus...and a redhead...and Irish...!

I wish you luck in your journey towards Freedom.

BJ;

Stick around a while! We´re happy to have you!

Susano!

OSR, you really are smart. Street smart, educated, erudite, thoughtful & insightful. This is such incredible stuff we´re talking about, and we would not have reached this level without you. Thank you so much. I´m doing, file>save as>, as each part is archived. When this thread ends (God forbid!), I think we should all give permission, and have Whitley publish it, as a book - a conversation on mind control. Maybe money could go toward the effort of exposing this ugliness, and helping victims.

(Thanks for the compliment...however, my "smarts" has always been the root of my undoing...). I think everyone here is pretty smart...you´re no dummy yourself Susano!

I guess part of why I sound so smart is that what I know seems to resonate with people...but that is only because you all recognize it within yourselves. The only difference here, I think is Provedence...and other influences in my life that gave me gifts of great value; my parents are primary in this category. Despite all the horror we went through, I had exceptional parents from a generation before most of my peers (my parents were both almost forty when they married and I was born....I am their only natural born child). A different generation with different values and a high degree of intelligence (my Dad) and passion (my Mom). Other positive influences as well...that may all have been part of the plan...but that remains to be seen.

Thanks for the get well wishes, and I am slowly recovering. I may need another day or two away from this...there is a substantial stress factor involved in what I am doing here.


When this thread ends...we start another one!...I am going to do that anyway.

I have no problem with Whitley publishing this as long as we all get the by-line credit, and control what happens with the profit. Is Whitley also a publisher??? With his name on the book, we might even sell some...! Your mouth to Whitley´s ear...

I think any profit could go into future publishing and into creating and maintaining a website devoted to this subject matter in this context with much information and discussions towards how to deal with it all...that would get information to the most people like us who go searching for their answers on the Internet.

(Message edited by onesmartrat on August 23, 2004)

35

russadams;

Your post appeared after my last one went up.

Don´t worry, you´ll catch up here pretty quick.

I want you to know that you have a wealth of knowledge as well...just waiting to unearth itself from a quiet, but not so peaceful slumber.

Join the club on the migraines, pal...it´s part of the syndrome and a sign-post symptom for DID. I know all about this subject. Try 300 mg of CoQ10 daily (in one dose) as a preventative measure. (Found this out from a British Migraine Study).I have found it extremely helpful in preventing the migrianes...most of the time. You can find low cost brand (NOW Brand) at a well-stocked health/vitamin store.
It is also an excellent heart nutrient.

I have also read the Da Vinci Code...although I already knew about the Catholic church (The Vatican´s involvement in all of this..it´s key actually).

The problem with that book is that it really covers it up Church involvement and culpability, and the author skillfully exonerates them by the last chapter. I found it to be suspiciously treading on the edge of covert cult propaganda, also deliberately misleading. Poetic license or something else? Fiction pretending to be non-fiction pretending to be fiction.

By the way, I wanted to ask this question earlier: How many of you posters here are Catholic, or have it in the family?

Got to go...I am treading into dangerous ground here...which is why I didn´t ask this question earlier... religion is a touchy subject...but vital in understanding the Big Picture here.

OK, I gotta go rest...be back later...Cheerio!


37

Aztec;

God help YOUR children and grandchildren!


38

Aztec;

As far as MY "reprehensible behavior"..let´s take a quick poll here:

Attn: Posters;

If you had a choice only between the two of us, how many of you out there would prefer me as their kid´s babysitter or...Aztec?

I don´t expect anybody to actually answer that question here, but I think my point has been made here after reading THAT last post (Aztec´s), regarding the definition of exactly WHAT is "reprehensible" in this case.


39

L.A.B.

Aztec writes poetry...right?

Enigma writes poetry. Aztec writes monologues and nevers answers questions or engages in a dialogue here with people.

The Aztecs sacrificed people, including their own children didn´t they? interesting choice of usernames, in light of post #164?(Aztec´s).

Aztec wrote;

The children were not programmed to play a part in some corrupt organization they were tempered to exist on the earth without having their hearts broken too much, as they would have been broken severely without the extreme tempering.

Well, let´s see, I personally have been witness to systematic electrocution, rape, murder,Satanic ritual sacrifice, kidnapping,assasinations, enforced near-death events, suffocation to the point of near death, drug/pain/hypnosis. psychological terrorism, other children killed as an "example"...by people who make the Nazi´s look like boy scouts (in fact some of them WERE Nazi´s)maybe I should stop here...

Yeah, all THAT "TEMPERING" did me a whole lotta good...uh, huh, didn´t break my little heart...I am sure glad to know it was done outta love...NOT!


40

I wrote;

Well, let´s see, I personally have been witness to systematic electrocution, rape, murder,Satanic ritual sacrifice, kidnapping,assasinations, enforced near-death events, suffocation to the point of near death, drug/pain/hypnosis. psychological terrorism, other children killed as an "example"...by people who make the Nazi´s look like boy scouts (in fact some of them WERE Nazi´s)maybe I should stop here...


russadams responded;


Jesus OSR, I don´t even know how you have retained your sanity after witnessing that stuff. Well, I´m assuming it´s only possible through disassociation. I´m also assuming that these were hidden memories that you were able to unlock later with the help of people like the person you recommended to Sharon? Makes me a little uneasy about my own stuff and whatever it is that´s there.

YEAH...AND I DIDN´T EVEN WRITE ABOUT THE REALLY UGLY STUFF...

Susano wrote;

Next time you´re looking for something to read, go to your local library and pick up Sibyl. Nothing to do with aliens, but it might strike a chord.

IT WOULD STRIKE A CHORD FOR ALL OF US ABDUCTEES, UNFORTUNATELY...NOT JUST WITH AZTEC...


Mearie wrote:

No one who is truly concerned with enhancing the lives & spirituality of mankind could think that is any way to move forward in this existence.

THAT´S THE POINT HERE...THIS IS A THEOLOGY OF WHICH LIFE IS A DEFILEMENT...AND DEATH IS CHERSIHED...IT IS A DEATH-CULT.


russadams wrote;

You know, somewhere in the Crop Circle thread--it´s probably archived by now--Toumai even alluded to the fact that the grey beings were "from Satan", or something along those lines, which isn´t that far off the mark when you look at what´s being described in this thread

YEAH, I WAS WONDERING WHEN WE WOULD GET TO THIS...YOU JUST ESSENTIALLY ANSWERED THE $64,000 QUESTION AS TO "WHY"...BEHIND ALL OF THIS...DRAMA BEING PLAYED OUT ON THE WORLD STAGE.


WE ARE HEARING FROM EITHER AND ALTER (PART) OF AZTEC´S DID SYSTEM...(WHICH MY WRITINGS MAY HAVE INADVERTENTLY TRIGGERED) OR WE HAVE A BONAFIDE HANDLER/PROGRAMMER TALKING TO US HERE.

AZTEC´S POSTS, PARTICULARLY #164, HAS ALL THE EARMARKS OF FERTILITY CULT/SATANISM.

GRANTED, IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING, ANYBODY SUBJECT TO TRAUMA-BASED PROGRAMMING, WILL HAVE CERTAIN BELIEFS AND SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED AS SUCH...HOWEVER, THAT DOES NOT ABSOLVE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THEM...PARTICULARLY WHEN THEY ARE POSTED IN A PUBLIC FORUM.

I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD BE CALLED ON THEIR BELIEFS AND INTENTIONS AND QUESTIONED; AND CONFRONTED WHEN APPROPRIATE. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CHILD ABUSE OF THE MOST SEVERE KIND HERE...AND THIS PERSON IS MAKING AN ARGUMENT, UNDER SOME GUISE OF IT BEING A "SPIRITUAL BELIEF" IN FAVOR OF IT (THE ABUSE).

YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, MUCH OF WHAT IS DONE TO THE CHILDREN INVOLVE THE PARENTS...NOT ALL THE TIME, BUT A GOOD DEAL OF IT; ONE OR BOTH PARENTS ARE INVOLVED IN THE CULT. THEY ACTUALLY DO BELIEVE THAT WHAT THEY ARE SUBJECTING AND AGREEING TO LET HAPPEN TO THEIR CHILDREN IS "GOOD FOR THEM"..THEY BELIEVE ALL THIS STUFF. MANY DON´T. BUT PLAY ALONG WITH IT FOR MONEY OF BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES, ETC., IN MOST CASES, AT VARIOUS LEVELS OF THE HIERARCHY, YOU GET ALL KINDS OF BIZARRE BELIEFS, NOT JUST IN THE ALIEN ABDUCTION SCENARIO, THIS GOES WAY BEYOND THAT.

THAT´S PART OF HOW THIS WHOLE THING IS INTER-GENERATIONAL. PARENTS CAN BE CONSCIOUSLY INVOLVED...OR HAVE ONE OF THEIR ALTERS PARTICIPATE WITHOUT THEIR REMEMBERING IT.

THESE PEOPLE DO BELIEVE THAT THIS LIFE IS A DEFILEMENT AND THAT THROUGH THE TORTURE AND FRAGMENTING OF THE MIND/BODY, THEY CAN LOOSEN THE SOUL FROM IT´S PRISON, AS WELL AS CREATE SUPER ABILITIES...AND ULTIMATELY, THERE IS IN MANY CASES, A DIRECT LINK TO THE METAPHYSICAL POWERS BELIEVED TO BE GAINED FROM HUMAN SACRIFICE.

BUT THAT TAKES US INTO A RATHER GRIM DISCUSSION...

YOU ARE ALL SO SMART AND WISE, YOU HARDLY NEED ME TO TELL YOU ANYTHING...

susano wrote;

Hey, smarts, I don´t know if you´re aware of this but, Aztec is in OZ

WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE/SHE LIVES IN OZ?


41

Aztec; please stop reading these posts, it is not in your best interest right now. Please do not read any more posts in this thread. Your system has become destabilized.

AZTEC, please find a trusted friend to talk to and consider having their phone number handy if you do continue to read posts in this thread.

The following post is not intended to criticize you, but to help show people through a direct living model, exactly what the true nature of this phenomenon is, and the structural dynamic operating within people subjected to trauma-based programming. This post shows, by example, how a person´s psyche fragmented with state dependent knowledge and memories can bleed through into their waking/host consciousness.

This is how the human mind/body works, folks, even a mind and body that has been shattered by systematic trauma into compartmentalized (amnesia) "alters" will always naturally attempt to integrate it´s experiences and become whole...as it was intended to be; even if the attempts are made on a subtle level, well beneath the conscious threshold of awareness.

In this respect, Aztec is not unique as a Programmed-Multiple; he/she is actually quite typical; classic in fact.

I believe there is a "second voice" (alter)within Aztec´s posts that is actually giving us a literal description of it´s own internal world reality (programmed internal systems; programs; "alter" functions...or "virtual reality worlds" as Aztec keeps referring to it...not conscious of it´s second possible meaning).

I have embolden the key analogue phrases of the "second voice" in Aztec´s posts. If you read the entire text and then read the embolden text only, you will have a striking example of an alter leaking information up into the conscious/host mind, while the host-mind weaves that "subconscious" alter-state knowledge into a "tolerable story".

There are definitely two distinct levels of mind speaking here.

I propose that the "collective consciousness" mentioned later on in the posts is actually a metaphoric analogue that Aztec is unconsciously using is a description of his own internal (MPD) alter-system.

I also propose that much of what is described (and that I have embolden) is literal and not metaphoric. That is, it is literal to the ALTER that is relaying the information, but taken as a metaphor by the conscious mind/host mind of Aztec. The metaphors remain in the host´s linguistic patterns, but the verbal analogue in the underlying "second voice" becomes increasingly more dramatic and ends in the last post with what, I believe, is a literal event/memory/fear of that alter "second voice"...which involves a quite actual event THAT Alter (Aztec) may have witnessed or been a participant in...that event involves a Satanic Ritual Sacrifice (child sacrifice).

Because my posts, in particular, have triggered this Alter and this destabilization in Aztec´s system, I am perceived as "the enemy" and indeed I am a threat to THAT internal alter-system "collective consciousness" within Aztec´s mind/body. His/her programming involves coding the true revelation of the knowledge of what happened to him/her as life-threatening (as he repeatedly warns, in several posts, what can happen if one "human beings" discover the "truth"..."world exploding secrets"...his internal world booby-trapped should he dare to discover it and become co-conscious with that "secret" (covert) knowledge and it is designed (by the programmers) to lash out at any potential "messenger/catalyst" towards that truth.

Aztec´s Alter is correct here; it is life-threatening (world exploding) as the programmers have inlaid suicide programs (along with psychological/physical pain programs that will trigger if Aztec or anyone else attempts to get "into the system".

It´s designed like this to protect the identity of the programmers/handlers/participants in these Satanic Rituals/Sacrifices... and to ensure "secure accessing" (his conscious mind unaware of his/her involvement) to Aztec continues unimpeded.

In my opinion, Aztec is an Intergenerational Satanic Ritual Abuse Survivor.

THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THESE POSTS WILL RECOGNIZE RIGHT AWAY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IN MY POSTS SINCE THIS THREAD BEGAN...to the rest of you, well, I will leave it up to you all to decide for yourselves.

(AZTEC; READ AT YOUR OWN RISK; I ADVISE THAT YOU DO NOT READ THIS POST AT THIS POINT IN TIME.)

HERE WE GO...



Aztec wrote;post#149:

onesmartrat

Everyone has a dark side, including yourself. Your handlers could easily be guilty of genocide many times over.

If you´re going to lay claim to a young boy´s soul then you´d better have some straight answers instead of the runaround you´re feeding these people.

What you said was happening in Atlantis is actually happening in the now, to everyone.

Lapis wrote post#225:

Oh the stench of old, black negative Atlantis opposing our here and now! Just shatter the mind, crush the heart, fragment the personality, shove co-axial cable up their as#*, add some distorted left hand path knowledge and, ta da! Same tired old crap again a la negative Aquarius/Uranus energy timeline

I wrote post#87:

INTERESTING YOU SHOULD MENTION THE CO-AXIAL CABLE UP THEIR AS# AND ATLANTIS IN THE SAME BREATH.
THERE IS ACTUALLY QUITE LITERLLY SOME TRUTH IN THAT METAPHOR...SOME LITERAL TRUTH...

THERE WERE ´BEINGS´ AT THE TIME (ALTHOUGH THE PLACE DIDN´T CALL ITSELF "ATLANTIS") WHO WERE ACTUALLY NON-COPOREAL BUT APPEARED TO BE INCARNATE PHYSICALLY. THEY WERE QUITE POWERFUL METAPHYSICALLY AND COULD MANIPULTE PHYSICAL SPACE AS THEY WERE PRESENT IN IT, BUT THEY COULD NOT FEEL PHYSICAL PLEASURE EXCEPT BY WAY OF ´PROXY´ THROUGH THE USE OF INTERFACING TECHNOLOGY WITH THE HUMAN NERVOUS SYSTEM.

THEY HAD TECHNOLOGY THAT ALLOWED THEM TO LITERALLY PLUG INTO THE HUMAN SPINAL COLUMN AND THUS, PROVOKE OR EVOKE AN EXPERIENCE THAT THE HUMAN WOULD RESPOND TO AND THEM THEY (THESE BEINGS) WOULD FEEL THAT EXPERIENCE PHYSICALLY THROUGH THE "CABLE" APPLIANCE ATTACHED AT THE BASE OF THE HUMAN´S SPINE.

THE KICKER HERE IS THAT ONE OF THE SIDE-EFFECTS OF THIS PROCESS ALLOWED THE HUMAN BRIEF TRANSITORY (BUT REMEMBERED AS EXPERIENTAL DATA)) ACCESS INTO THE ´MIND/CONSCIOUSNESS/MEMORY/KNOWLEDGE´ OF THE BEING.

KIND OF LIKE HAVING YOU CONSCIOUSNESS JUMP STARTED INTO HYPERSPACE!

THE HUMAN´S THAT SURVIVED THIS PROCESS (MANY WERE KILLED IMMEDIATELY AFTER BECAUSE OF THE SIDE-EFFECT OF SUPER KNOWLEDGE)HAD A GOOD DEGREE MORE MENTAL SUPERIORITY, AWARENESS AND KNOWLEDGE THAN THE HUMANS THAT HADN´T HAD THAT DONE TO THEM.

THIS IS ONE OF THE WAYS, BIBLICALLY, ONE CAN LOOK AT THE DISCUSSIONS OF ANGELIC CONTACT WITH MAN HAVING AN IMPACT (ACCELERATED EVOLUTION OF MANKIND THRU INTERACTION WITH "ANGELIC HOSTS".) IT WAS BASICALLY THE RESULT, IN MANY CASES, OF THE LITERAL SIDE-EFFECT OF A PURIENT SEXUAL ACT...AND COMPLETELY UNINTENDED IN THE "ANGEL´S" PART.

I also wrote in post#88:

Aztec;

"If you´re going to lay claim to a young boy´s soul then you´d better have some straight answers instead of the runaround you´re feeding these people."

Please advise in what post did I lay claim to anyone´s soul?

I will answer any question you ask. What would you like to ask me Aztec?

I don´t think I have tried to give people the "runaround" as I have answered all of the questions that I could answer honestly, and I was even accused of making "bold statements" by one inquiring mind.

Please give an example to back up your statement reprinted above regarding "giving people the runaround".

Also, since I politely responded to your question regarding Mack, I would appreciate a response to mine; Exactly what "truth" has John Mack revealed about the "aliens"?

(Aztec has yet to address these statements he/she made, or respond to my questions regarding his/her assertions)

Aztec wrote; post #148:

(quoting me from a previous post)

"The process used to develop my mind (and contain the information) applied systematic torture to create extremely compartmentalized “clean” states of mind (un-contaminated by reflective consciousness/ ego/beliefs) that were/are capable of extra-ordinary applications;"........

Aztec responded:

In other words ´placed into a state of shock and amnesia where control is absolute.

I think onesmartrat is simply finding the things in others that he/she has in himself/herself. I´ve noticed many critics doing this and I have to try and check myself often when I find myself doing it.

If he/she has any information about the aliens then let´s hear it. Forget the slander and the self-ego feeding for now. We´ll judge for ourselves whether his/her information has any truth in it.


Aztec wrote; post#155:

You´re doing a brilliant job Onesmartrat. I apologize for being stern with you before. It´s just that my grandson has started spending a lot of time with me and I can relate to Sharon´s situation quite clearly. I wanted to help the boy by questioning your intent. I meant no offense to you personally, I was only working on the information you have presented.


Aztec wrote;post #159:

The aliens install beings in society to control it. Each community, town, city and country has separate controllers who maintain the collective consciousness. These beings control the military and governments, science and the arts.

And in this way the collective consciousness is steered where the aliens want it to go.

These controllers will contact and manipulate the lives of anyone in their area who is a threat to the collective consciousness control.

Individuals have other beings with them. Beings that are completely alien and non-human, although they do have human bodies for their use at any time. These beings help the individuals through their lives in various ways and are somewhat subservient to the other governing beings I mentioned.

The governing beings control the 3d reality while the beings in charge of the individuals make sure the individuals are able to complete their purpose in the 3d reality, and they also place the individuals in different schools when the human is asleep. There are other beings at a much deeper level who care for the soul body while it is having its consciousness projected into bodies in the 3d world


Aztec wrote;post#164:

Yes the beast and the bird are two beings that stand above and below the human dimension and take energy from the human while they protect the human´s spirit as it travels on the earth as well as the dimensions on either side of it. The cage they keep us in is the human body itself and so what the beings were doing is programming the child´s mind in the most basic manner so that her psyche would be more in tune with the reality of the multidimensional situation we are placed into as we grow up into these virtual reality worlds. Although the experiences given to children are traumatic and horrifying they are given out of love and understanding to prepare the soul for the reality of material life, which is not nice by soul standards. What happens to the children is an initiation in essence and something done by advanced beings and not by corrupt earth dwellers.

So basically the children´s psyche is being programmed just as we program a hard drive at the basic level before we add all the multitude of other programs. Reality on earth is extremely harsh compared to the reality we come from, because we have been taken out of our real soul forms and placed into a place of death where everything is controlled and great suffering is witnessed.


Great amounts of effort go into preparing the soul consciousness to experience these illusory realms and that preparation is not something which is pleasant or nice but it makes life much easier for us to endure. It´s like the way military training can be very cruel and hard and yet it makes things easier for the people when they are in a real battle situation.



So basically what your granddaughter experienced was an initiation and a tempering for life on the earth plane and not something done by a secret organization with a corrupt agenda. It was done by God beings out of love for the child and understanding of the nature of reality in the material zones.

Aztec wrote;post#165:

Let´s get it right shall we. I am the one who has fought all along in this thread to Protect a Child From Mental Tampering, while onesmartrat and his band of devotees have callously tried to sacrifice the child´s mind to their belief system. I recognized onesmartrat´s attack on the grandmother´s and child´s life instantly and I took a stand against it. Onesmartrat is a deceptive little rat who has now become abusive to the grandmother because she will not jump to his commands and sacrifice the child as he/she demands.

I´m the good guy here, but some of you are so blinded by your feverish desire to know things that you overlook the sacred ground of a child´s mind and try to dump your garbage on it. Leave the child alone. Let him live a normal life of wonder and mystery instead of trying to involve him in your tiny grasp of what life actually is.

The way the higher beings temper our psyches with frightening experiences is not something I agree with, but it´s what they do. I just stated things as they are. Shoot the messenger if you want, it means nothing to me. But just remember that I was the one that tried to protect the child and let him live and grow naturally.

Samples of my previous postings relative to this situation...

From my post #115:

WE ARE HEARING FROM EITHER AND ALTER (PART) OF AZTEC´S DID SYSTEM...(WHICH MY WRITINGS MAY HAVE INADVERTENTLY TRIGGERED) OR WE HAVE A BONAFIDE HANDLER/PROGRAMMER TALKING TO US HERE.

and...

THAT´S THE POINT HERE...THIS IS A THEOLOGY OF WHICH LIFE IS A DEFILEMENT...AND DEATH IS CHERSIHED...IT IS A DEATH-CULT.

From my post #106:

CLASSIC MIND CONTROL BELIEF PARADIGM ENFORCING THE POWERLESS/HELPLESS/HOPELESS SENSE OF SELF AND THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE ALL POWERFUL. YOU COULD SUBSTITUTE THE WORD "GODS" OR "GIANTS",OR EVEN "PARENTS" ETC., INSTEAD OF "ALIENS" AND HAVE THE SAME EFFECT. THIS IS ESSENTIAL TO THE CONTROL; THE PERSON ( AS THE CHILD ORIGINALLY) MUST VOLUNTARILY GIVE UP THEIR OWN PERSONAL AUTONOMY...AND THEY ARE FED THESE BELIEFS (AND THEY ARE REINFORCED THROUGH VARIOUS FORMS OF MEDIA) TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CONTINUE TO GIVE IT UP. ONCE A PERSON BEGINS TO TAKE THEIR AUTONOMY BACK, THE WHOLE RELATIONSHIP CHANGES AND THEY BECOME MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO CONTROL AND MANIPULATE, ALTHOUGH, UNTIL THEY HAVE CO-CONSCIOUSNESS AT THE DEEPEST LEVELS, THEY ARE STILL VULNERABLE.

THE CHILDREN ARE ALREADY INVOLVED IN THIS; THAT´S WHEN IT ALWAYS BEGINS IN CHILDHOOD. IT HAS TO; "ALIEN ABDUCTIONS" WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE UNLESS THIS EXTREME CONDITIONING STARTS IN CHILDHOOD. THE DISSOCIATIVE STATES THAT MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR ONE TO BE ABDUCTED ARE ONLY ACHIEVABLE BY TRAUMATIC PROCESS PSYCHOLOGICALLY ON HUMANS WHO HAVEN´T FULLY ACQUIRED A SELF-IDENTIFIED EGO STATE SEPARATE FROM THEIR PARENT(S). PEOPLE, ADULTS, WHO HAVE NOT BEEN PRIOR CONDITIONED IN THEIR CHILDHOOD VIA DELIBERATE PROGRAMMING OR SPONTANEOUS CHILD ABUSE AND/OR INCEST CANNOT BE SUBJECT TO ALIEN ABDUCTIONS

WE ARE INTELLIGENT POWERFUL BEINGS. WE HAVE MINDS THAT ARE CAPABLE OF EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENTS. WE DON´T NEED "ALIENS" TO BE OUR "CONTROLLERS" OR GIVE US SPIRITUAL ENLIGHTENMENT. WE NEED TO GROW UP IN OUR CHILDLIKE-MINDS INCULCATED IN MAGICAL THINKING AND FALSE BELIEFS DESIGNED TO KEEP US EMOTIONALLY DEPENDENT (AND PLIABLE) IN ORDER TO CONTROL AND MANIPULATE US TO MEET THE NEEDS OF OTHERS..."ALIEN" OR OTHERWISE.


Postscript;

If anyone can find anything resembling deception on my part contained within my posts on this thread (or any other), please show evidence of it. I will answer all comers.

-OSR


43

Addendum to My Post #116;

I inadvertently left this section out. As I made reference in my preamble to material contained herein in that post(#116), I include it here to supplement and reinforce my assertions in that preamble.

Aztec wrote;post #156:

Don´t think for a moment that you are responsible for doing any abductions. That´s what the controllers want you to think, and they want people to forget about spiritual things and focus on the earthly things like the secret intelligence agencies. That way people are kept in the dark about what is truly happening. The military visit me often and try to make me keep quiet about all of the alien controllers. They know that humans would not be able to endure the truth. They are the good guys in a way because they try to keep people away from the knowledge that would destroy this world as we know it. But of course to us they are the bad guys because they are keeping us away from our desire. The desire to know the absolute truth.

There was a woman here who went to work and noticed an extra dimension to everything. The office looked deeper than normal and the workers were all non-human entities. Time stood still and she accomplished a vast amount of work in no time at all. What happened to her was that her veil was temporarily lifted and she saw reality, the controllers underneath the mask. It happens a lot and people find that there are aliens inside them.

The human is not an alien. The human is a separate entity that is supposed to experience virtual reality worlds. It´s not responsible for what happens behind the illusion, even though it may realize that it is intimately connected to it. The human only has to focus on the earth reality and try to do the best it can here. That´s why I believe children should be protected from the truth until they are old enough to decide for themselves if they want to seek it out.

Every shrink or investigator will tamper with your child´s mind and make life difficult for them. It´s like the girl who was hypnotized and a voice of an entity like God started speaking through her, telling the hypnotists to leave the child alone or it would take her spirit away and leave them the dead body. She was hypnotized but her guardian was still in full control of her, and that is what happens during hypnotism. The people are placed into a trance and other entities speak through them and fool the hypnotists completely. Then the hypnotists teach the people stuff that is not fact and is just what the entities want people to believe.

We see that military powers and all are working for the aliens but it´s not their own fault, they are just being used because they are closer to 3d than the alien controllers. We could destroy every secret power on the earth and yet the aliens would still have full control from behind the veil. Some of their works would cease for a while that´s all.

I´m not against seeking the truth and all, i´m just against the idea of involving children in our research.}

lemme know if this is on track, i can post more, see what u think :O)))

Anders~ It´s on track alright....my Ex who was a "product" of this programming also, had nightmares regularly, I mean SCREAMING screaming in his sleep.... very rarely did he sleep soundly. There were also Alien abductions at certain intervals... I got the sense that there was more than one alien group interacting with him...there is definitely the faction that work cohesively with the "secret" government....but I also got the sense there was another group operating not affiliated with the Nazis, operating on their own. We even caught one of their visits on film. My Ex, "Sam" I will call him, had been in a fist fight while drunk (alot of these project people have serious alcohol problems, partly due to not being able to deal with the horrific memories when they come up) I was not physically with him at the time {I was in Virginia, he was in NY} but we were in constant phone contact, at least once a day, usually more, and he would come to see me every other weekend, so we were in pretty constant contact... He called me to tell me that he had been badly punched in the eye and had gone to the E.R. to seek treatment...while he was waiting, two small metal spheres like BB´s came out of his nose...his implants had been dislodged from the force of the blow. I instructed him to put them in a safe place and to set up a video feed and train it on his bed while he slept. My feeling was that since his implants were removed, who ever or whatever was in charge of monitoring him would soon notice a discrepancy in the signal and be back to re-implant him... My hunch was right, on film he captured 2 classic grey-looking type aliens hovering above him. The interesting thing, the video just showed him there, sleeping noramlly in bed, and when the greys made their appearance, just before they showed up on the film, the view got all static-y, he also said that after this "visit", a funny fine meatllic like dust was left in the room, When I found out he had captureed trhis on film, I immediately called Bud Hopkins to notify him and also to get some pointers....... Anyhow, to make along story short, since he is a project person you can bet he was under surveillance, he had mailed to me in Virginia one of the implants that had fallen out of his nose, but the mail was intercepted and I never got it. I told him to bring the video IN PERSON to my Mom´s {who lived 5 minutes from him}she wasn´t home but he left it in her mail box along with several other packages she had receievd that day {it was right before Easter} but when she got home and checked her mail ther was no manilla envelope withthe video.....(?) This is just one episode in many that I had in the 6 plus years I spent with this Individual, who unfortunately reused to seek any type of healing to reclaim his fractured Soul...we wound up going our sperate ways two years ago, but inside, the Love will always be there...

Anders that above post was me...I timed out...! Anyhow, thank you for your contributions here, Yes, it is long and alot to read, but those who are meant to read it, will read it...and may it help them to find some healing and validation ~ Blessings to you~ S