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Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

 
KLB
User ID: 1019687
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06/29/2010 12:27 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
This is true, there are translations like that.

But, what does your gut say?

What does your heart say?

In every man/woman is a knowing....

....placed there not by a book, but, by an eternal God who made you.

Amen


No way out from that, huh?

I think it is an act of incredible mercy for God to put that knowing there.

It is the stupidity of people, to try to ignore it.

Me included.

For there was a time, I would have said "Nope, not true."

But, I knew. Just did not wish to admit it. Even made fun of it.

Pride.

But, we know what God says about pride. Comes prior to destruction.

Good thing God is there, and available at ANY time, should ANY man or woman wish to accept his mercy.

That still small voice, tugging on the heart, is the most important one we will ever hear.


Yes. That still, small voice spoke loudly and clearly to me from an early age. I was dumbfounded by the hypocrisy and intolerance around me, and so I left my church. It took some time to realize God's message is clear, man's interpretation thereof may not be.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1011077


Yeah, there is so much nonsense out there in these days.

Seeker driven church, Emergent church, Kingdom Now, Word Of Faith, etc. All twisting and suiting God to be the likeness of man. Leaving out the tough stuff and talking about how we can change God, get around the cross, be rich, have all kinds of success, and please God with our personality and our 'holiness.' Scary stuff.

I have to take note that when Jesus spoke of these times the very first thing he said was "Be not deceived, many will come in my name."

Did not know he meant THAT many. LOL.

Sure was on target.
Oh no you didn't say that
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Honduras
06/29/2010 12:41 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Eternal torment is something in your soul when you are apart from God.


Funny, I wouldn't exactly call my existence "eternal torment".

jerkit


Wait until all you have IS eternity and you have still rejected God's love through the finished work of his Only Begotten Son Yeshua.
 Quoting: Spawn



I thought they had changed his son and it is now OBAMA? the bringer of death and suffering, oh wait that's the Anti-Christ!
Anonymous Coward
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06/29/2010 12:46 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Jesus tought ETERNAL seperation for those who ignore or refuse the free guift of eternal life in the presence of God.
To deny this you are spreading false teaching and doing some souls a disservice by sugar coating their eventual eternal condition.

...............................
This is what you been taught by the church this does not agree with the Bible.

Hell means "the Grave" both in hebrew and greek.

If you had any understand (open eyes)and check out the concordance you will see the interpetations of words and in there context.

The bodies of unbelievers will be spew upond the ground as dung.

My guilt has been laid at the feet of Christ.

The free gift are for those whom God choose from the foundation of the world and he paid for the sins of his elect from the foundation of the world.

Does not agree with the bible or your personal belief?

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

I can give many more examples but I'v been over this tired argument with you before (If you are a sockpuppet of HM or MD)
Remember you will be held accountable for your teaching if you truly are saved. I find it unlikely that anyone who would sugarcoat eternal damnation to those who are lost could have the love of Jesus in them, but I'm not the judge.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


why do we think we are wiser than God? we demand punishment to satisfy our corrupt minds and deceitful hearts. The Bible clearly says the wages of sin is death,if you eat of this tree you will surely die,fear him who can destroy both body and soul.hell is interpeted the 'grave" both in hebrew and greek. He uses the terms perish,death,the grave ,buired,destroy,etc. When Christ spoke he spoke in parables,without a parable he did not speak.

The Bible says they(we) come out of the womb speaking lies,do you believe that God would seen an infant or unborn children to suffer an enternally of fire? We must read the Bible through open eyes and this can only come from God if he chooses to.
KLB
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06/29/2010 12:53 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
It is worth noting (IMO) that there is only one thing that is eternal. God is eternal.

Meaning he has always existed, and always will. This is the pure definition of 'eternal.'

What we are, is everlasting. Meaning we had a beginning, but that our souls will last from our beginning,

.....to forever without an ending.

We have not always existed, therefore, we are hardly eternal.

But we are everlasting.
Anonymous Coward
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06/29/2010 12:53 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
why do we think we are wiser than God? we demand punishment to satisfy our corrupt minds and deceitful hearts. The Bible clearly says the wages of sin is death,if you eat of this tree you will surely die,fear him who can destroy both body and soul.hell is interpeted the 'grave" both in hebrew and greek. He uses the terms perish,death,the grave ,buired,destroy,etc. When Christ spoke he spoke in parables,without a parable he did not speak.

The Bible says they(we) come out of the womb speaking lies,do you believe that God would seen an infant or unborn children to suffer an enternally of fire? We must read the Bible through open eyes and this can only come from God if he chooses to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 728173

No the unborn have not reached the age of accountability. Some retarded adults may fall into the catagory.

Funny you admit about thinking of being wiser than God. You have absolutly no concept of God's Holy Nature.
I would suggest you look into this aspect of God. This is why there is punishment and hell.
[link to www.gty.org]
Anonymous Coward
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06/29/2010 01:05 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
why do we think we are wiser than God? we demand punishment to satisfy our corrupt minds and deceitful hearts. The Bible clearly says the wages of sin is death,if you eat of this tree you will surely die,fear him who can destroy both body and soul.hell is interpeted the 'grave" both in hebrew and greek. He uses the terms perish,death,the grave ,buired,destroy,etc. When Christ spoke he spoke in parables,without a parable he did not speak.

The Bible says they(we) come out of the womb speaking lies,do you believe that God would seen an infant or unborn children to suffer an enternally of fire? We must read the Bible through open eyes and this can only come from God if he chooses to.

No the unborn have not reached the age of accountability. Some retarded adults may fall into the catagory.

Funny you admit about thinking of being wiser than God. You have absolutly no concept of God's Holy Nature.
I would suggest you look into this aspect of God. This is why there is punishment and hell.
[link to www.gty.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098

What is the "age of accountability?"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 728173
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06/29/2010 01:08 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
why do we think we are wiser than God? we demand punishment to satisfy our corrupt minds and deceitful hearts. The Bible clearly says the wages of sin is death,if you eat of this tree you will surely die,fear him who can destroy both body and soul.hell is interpeted the 'grave" both in hebrew and greek. He uses the terms perish,death,the grave ,buired,destroy,etc. When Christ spoke he spoke in parables,without a parable he did not speak.

The Bible says they(we) come out of the womb speaking lies,do you believe that God would seen an infant or unborn children to suffer an enternally of fire? We must read the Bible through open eyes and this can only come from God if he chooses to.

No the unborn have not reached the age of accountability. Some retarded adults may fall into the catagory.

Funny you admit about thinking of being wiser than God. You have absolutly no concept of God's Holy Nature.
I would suggest you look into this aspect of God. This is why there is punishment and hell.
[link to www.gty.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


Thesr things were taught to you by your church,I too understood what you are saying for 30 years of being in church.

Psalms 58
3 The wicked are estranged from the WOMB: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

We are all wicked,unless we become born again.

No where in the Bible does it say that there is an age of accountbility,we are all born in sin and the wages of sin is death.

Another of the churches fable. This is why the church age has ended and is no longer being used by God.

Romans:3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

JUDE 1
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.

are the cities still suffering eternal fire today?
nzreva (OP)

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06/29/2010 01:08 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Eternal torment is something in your soul when you are apart from God.


Funny, I wouldn't exactly call my existence "eternal torment".

jerkit


Wait until all you have IS eternity and you have still rejected God's love through the finished work of his Only Begotten Son Yeshua.

You did not read the article eternal is not in the bible
eternal is a latin word for aion which always has an end



The word "eternal" is listed in hundreds of places in the Bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 728173

Hebrew olam owlam Greek aion aionion
nzreva (OP)

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06/29/2010 01:10 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
It is worth noting (IMO) that there is only one thing that is eternal. God is eternal.

Meaning he has always existed, and always will. This is the pure definition of 'eternal.'

What we are, is everlasting. Meaning we had a beginning, but that our souls will last from our beginning,

.....to forever without an ending.

We have not always existed, therefore, we are hardly eternal.

But we are everlasting.
 Quoting: KLB 1019687

read it in Greek and Hebrew no word Eternas that is the Latin word for eternal
nzreva (OP)

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06/29/2010 01:10 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
It is worth noting (IMO) that there is only one thing that is eternal. God is eternal.

Meaning he has always existed, and always will. This is the pure definition of 'eternal.'

What we are, is everlasting. Meaning we had a beginning, but that our souls will last from our beginning,

.....to forever without an ending.

We have not always existed, therefore, we are hardly eternal.

But we are everlasting.
 Quoting: KLB 1019687

read it in Greek and Hebrew no word Eternas that is the Latin word for eternal
KLB
User ID: 1019687
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06/29/2010 01:15 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
It is worth noting (IMO) that there is only one thing that is eternal. God is eternal.

Meaning he has always existed, and always will. This is the pure definition of 'eternal.'

What we are, is everlasting. Meaning we had a beginning, but that our souls will last from our beginning,

.....to forever without an ending.

We have not always existed, therefore, we are hardly eternal.

But we are everlasting.

read it in Greek and Hebrew no word Eternas that is the Latin word for eternal
 Quoting: nzreva


I know Hebrew because I was raised speaking it, in Israel.

God is eternal and eternity is his domain.

When 'eternity' is cited in the OT, it means God's abode. He lives in eternity.

The word eternity always means in the context of God, not man.

And, there is no word for eternal in Greek.

Aionios means: without end, never to cease, everlasting, forever.

Not eternal.

It's western culture that has translated it in error.
nzreva (OP)

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06/29/2010 01:20 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
It is worth noting (IMO) that there is only one thing that is eternal. God is eternal.

Meaning he has always existed, and always will. This is the pure definition of 'eternal.'

What we are, is everlasting. Meaning we had a beginning, but that our souls will last from our beginning,

.....to forever without an ending.

We have not always existed, therefore, we are hardly eternal.

But we are everlasting.

read it in Greek and Hebrew no word Eternas that is the Latin word for eternal


I know Hebrew because I was raised speaking it, in Israel.

God is eternal and eternity is his domain.

When 'eternity' is cited in the OT, it means God's abode. He lives in eternity.

The word eternity always means in the context of God, not man.

And, there is no word for eternal in Greek.

Aionios means: without end, never to cease, everlasting, forever.

Not eternal.

It's western culture that has translated it in error.
 Quoting: KLB 1019687

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the aionios began, aionios is in this scripture it is before, so there is a before aionios. If you spesak Hebrew then you know olam has an endi;ng
Smilin' Irish Eyes

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06/29/2010 01:20 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Eternal torment is something in your soul when you are apart from God.


The notion anyone could be "apart" from an omnipresent god is ludicrous.
 Quoting: Indicates


yep

This tiny little planet that we inhabit is barely even a speck of dust in our galaxy, now just think of the universe and how vast that is.

So, why would the stories written down by a nomadic desert tribe and compiled into a book by a 3rd century emperor who was trying to hold onto his political power really be "God's word" and if someone in the Alpha Centuri galaxy has not read this book God will doom them to hell?

God is all around us, in everything we see, do, touch, taste, smell. Don't leave God in a book or at church, live God's love. Be kind to one another, have compassion, be humble and know when to say you're sorry.

Peace be with all of us.
Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom. -- Samuel Taylor Coleridge

In seeking wisdom thou art wise; in imagining that thou hast attained it - thou art a fool. -- Lord Chesterfield
KLB
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06/29/2010 01:42 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
It is worth noting (IMO) that there is only one thing that is eternal. God is eternal.

Meaning he has always existed, and always will. This is the pure definition of 'eternal.'

What we are, is everlasting. Meaning we had a beginning, but that our souls will last from our beginning,

.....to forever without an ending.

We have not always existed, therefore, we are hardly eternal.

But we are everlasting.

read it in Greek and Hebrew no word Eternas that is the Latin word for eternal


I know Hebrew because I was raised speaking it, in Israel.

God is eternal and eternity is his domain.

When 'eternity' is cited in the OT, it means God's abode. He lives in eternity.

The word eternity always means in the context of God, not man.

And, there is no word for eternal in Greek.

Aionios means: without end, never to cease, everlasting, forever.

Not eternal.

It's western culture that has translated it in error.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the aionios began, aionios is in this scripture it is before, so there is a before aionios. If you spesak Hebrew then you know olam has an endi;ng
 Quoting: nzreva


First, there is no word to describe that God has no beginning. It is a concept that men cannot grasp or describe. It's beyond language. In Hebrew we speak of that point in time as being that you cannot go back that far because there is no beginning point. So, we say before in describing the beginning point. Before, before, if you will.

'olam' is world.

'olam hazeh' is this world.

'olam haba' is the world to come.

olam definiton

But, I am not going to argue with you about it.

No big deal.
MuadDib987 (nli)

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06/29/2010 01:48 PM

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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
5 stars, OP

Folks, the bible was not written in English. This is a language that did not even exist until centuries later. God's word to us has been leavened in translation.

<< The Doctrine of Biblical Inerrancy. This doctrine has caused Christian leaders to have to outright lie to maintain their position. They have to take plain facts and hide them from their followers. Because they have locked themselves into the teaching that the King James Bible is "the inerrant" translation of the "so-called" original texts, they have locked themselves into a position where lying, distorting, and name calling are the only options left to maintain their ground. They say the 66 books of the present King James Bible are inerrant, but they don't tell you it lacks 14 entire books which were in the original King James of 1611. They don't tell you the King James Bible has been changed many times in the last 350 years and there have been thousands of corrections! They don't tell you the King James Bible was never authorized by anyone. They don't tell you the original KJV had a calendar of annual Holy days which all believers were to follow such as: Purification of the virgin Mary, annunciation of our Lady, Innocents day, etc.. They don't tell you the Greek text used by the King James translators produced by Erasmus, a Roman Catholic humanist monk, did not have manuscripts that contained all 27 books of the New Testament, so he borrowed out of the Latin Catholic Vulgate! No, they can't tell you these things because that would be the end of the lie which has kept them in business.
>>

You know the old Footprints in the Sand poem? Religion Inc. has examined those footprints, and, not knowing Who made them, has concocted a mythical monster that they've been worshiping ever since. If you're happy with this inhuman creature then stick with what works for you. But if we look into the original Hebrew & Greek scripture, we'll find that God is *not* the heartless monster they've been selling us.
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
MuadDib987 (nli)

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06/29/2010 01:50 PM

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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
The 1st chapter of Hebrews calls Christ the "express image" (in Greek, charakter) of God.

Christ Himself said "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father."

If we examine the actions, words and demeanor displayed by Christ in the gospels, do we see anything there that might indicate that He's concerned about people plunging into an abyss of unending misery, or that he would allow such a thing to happen?

He spoke with a woman taken in the act of adultery, and said not one word about hell, judgment, or even repentance. He actually seemed focused on revealing the hearts of her blood-thirsty accusers. He told her "I don't condemn you; go and sin no more."

He met a woman at a well who was apparently living with a man she was not married to, and it comes out that she had been shacked up with men several times before. He didn't issue one peep about her eternal fate, or the consequences of her sins. And as they spoke, the conversation eventually touched on the nature of worship. Why would He engage in such a topic, if this chick was a mere heartbeat away from hellfire? Why didn't he warn her? Today's christians certainly would have - we'd be climbing on her face about the destiny of her eternal soul, wouldn't we?

There was a rich man who came to Jesus asking him what he needs to do to acquire eternal life. Jesus told him to sell all his possessions and give the funds to the poor. The man went away sad, because he owned so much he would have to part with. Did Jesus go after him? Read him the riot act about his idolatry? Confont him with the severity of his afterlife? No, He graciously allowed the guy to go on his way and consider his plight on his own terms instead of putting him on the spot in front of an audience.

Furthermore, Hebrews 1 also says that Christ is the heir of "all things" (Greek pas, meaning "all"). What is our Shepherd likely to do with "all"? Leave us to the consequences of our defective, blinded freewill? Or perhaps seek and save even the last lone straggler? In John 6, he says that He'll lose *nothing* of what He was given. If He was given all, and will lose nothing of that all, it sounds like "all" is in good hands, yes?

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Consideration of this kind of info, along with the realization that English terms such as "hell" and "forever" are mistranslations of the original Greek, should start to dispel the errors of Egypt's twisted doctrine like a bad dream.
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
Smilin' Irish Eyes

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06/29/2010 02:07 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
5 stars, OP

Folks, the bible was not written in English. This is a language that did not even exist until centuries later. God's word to us has been leavened in translation.

<< The Doctrine of Biblical Inerrancy. This doctrine has caused Christian leaders to have to outright lie to maintain their position. They have to take plain facts and hide them from their followers. Because they have locked themselves into the teaching that the King James Bible is "the inerrant" translation of the "so-called" original texts, they have locked themselves into a position where lying, distorting, and name calling are the only options left to maintain their ground.

They say the 66 books of the present King James Bible are inerrant, but they don't tell you it lacks 14 entire books which were in the original King James of 1611.

They don't tell you the King James Bible has been changed many times in the last 350 years and there have been thousands of corrections!

They don't tell you the King James Bible was never authorized by anyone. They don't tell you the original KJV had a calendar of annual Holy days which all believers were to follow such as: Purification of the virgin Mary, annunciation of our Lady, Innocents day, etc..

They don't tell you the Greek text used by the King James translators produced by Erasmus, a Roman Catholic humanist monk, did not have manuscripts that contained all 27 books of the New Testament, so he borrowed out of the Latin Catholic Vulgate!

No, they can't tell you these things because that would be the end of the lie which has kept them in business.
>>

You know the old Footprints in the Sand poem? Religion Inc. has examined those footprints, and, not knowing Who made them, has concocted a mythical monster that they've been worshiping ever since. If you're happy with this inhuman creature then stick with what works for you. But if we look into the original Hebrew & Greek scripture, we'll find that God is *not* the heartless monster they've been selling us.
 Quoting: MuadDib987 (nli)



I believe you would find the following link interesting based on your post solely about how King James altered the bible; now go back to Constantine and how he manipulated the bible.

Then you can go back to all the writings that were told over the centuries and later written down with a certain agenda in the writings.

Here is the link: [link to www.bidstrup.com]

Does reading that link lessen my belief in God? No.

Does it lessen my belief in the teachings of the Church? Yes. I can now see how the bible was used to control, to dominate, to subjugate the masses.

Who really feels happy when you are being mean? When you say unkind words? When you cheat, lie, steal? I know I don't like how it feels.

I feel much better when I am kind, helpful to others, respect others and treat them well. I know that others will try to use my kindness to be mean, to cheat me...I am aware of evil, guard myself against it and try my hardest to forgive those that do evil.

There will be the fundamentalists who will quote chapter and verse that is not enough. Well, to them I say, you are not God, you are quoting a book that used to manipulate your behavior...why not just listen to God's voice that speaks to you if you would only stop to listen?
Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom. -- Samuel Taylor Coleridge

In seeking wisdom thou art wise; in imagining that thou hast attained it - thou art a fool. -- Lord Chesterfield
Anonymous Coward
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06/29/2010 02:16 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Read the next few lines. There is a distinction between the devil and people. Seems to purposefully leave off the part about being tormented forever. Specifically mentions a second death instead.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



Eternal torment is something in your soul when you are apart from God.


Funny, I wouldn't exactly call my existence "eternal torment".

jerkit


Wait until all you have IS eternity and you have still rejected God's love through the finished work of his Only Begotten Son Yeshua.

You did not read the article eternal is not in the bible
eternal is a latin word for aion which always has an end

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever

Looks like it's eternal to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098
Anonymous Coward
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06/29/2010 02:31 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
5 stars, OP

But if we look into the original Hebrew & Greek scripture, we'll find that God is *not* the heartless monster they've been selling us.
 Quoting: MuadDib987 (nli)

I see you have drank the poison of Gayry Amirault. As someone who admits to thinking God is a "heartless monster" I can see how you embrace such error.
As a Universalist you must
1)ignore the many scriptures which teach there is torment after death and cling to a few parables.
2)Ignore clear scripture of 2 distinct kinds of mankind
3)Ignore clear teaching that there are conditions that man must do to "escape" judgment.

I see you espouse the scriptue is error tactic.
For someone to claim being a Christian, but rather follow error and clear biblical teaching by claiming biblical error, admit the truth.
You aint no Christian.
MuadDib987 (nli)

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06/29/2010 02:58 PM

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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
I see you have drank the poison of Gayry Amirault. As someone who admits to thinking God is a "heartless monster" I can see how you embrace such error.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


If there are any inaccuracies in the article, please point them out for us. God is not a heartless monster, but the character that the church bows down to is.


As a Universalist you must
1)ignore the many scriptures which teach there is torment after death and cling to a few parables.
2)Ignore clear scripture of 2 distinct kinds of mankind
3)Ignore clear teaching that there are conditions that man must do to "escape" judgment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


Never claimed to be a "Universalist", but go ahead and use whatever label you require ;)
Who here is claiming that there's no judgment? Scripture plainly tells us that we'll each receive due for our deeds. The fallacy is that anyone will require unending, infinite punishment. That's bad math.
As humans, we're blind and corrupt and need to be redeemed and changed. The lie is the belief that God *cannot* change people, and will literally burn the evidence that He was unable to save. The truth is that God *is* a consuming fire, and He reduces us to "ashes" - the symbol of humility.


I see you espouse the scriptue is error tactic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


Christ Himself said to beware the scribes. There's serious warnings in Revelation for those who alter its content. Does any of this somehow imply that the printed word would forever remain untampered-with?


You aint no Christian.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098


Sounds good to me, since christianity isn't my Savior ;)
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
MHz

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06/29/2010 03:15 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Eternal punishment is dispelled by just these few verses. The ones under 'torment' have their deed forgiven and no longer remembered just prior to the revealing of the new earth. Unless you thing God is going to forget the 'servants who are well treated, if you come to that conclusion you should stop reading everything, not just the Bible.

Isa.65:12
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called,
ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,
and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Isa.65:13
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
my servants shall eat,
but ye shall be hungry:
behold,
my servants shall drink,
but ye shall be thirsty:
behold,
my servants shall rejoice,
but ye shall be ashamed:
Isa.65:14
Behold,
my servants shall sing for joy of heart,
but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart,
and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
Isa.65:15
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen:
for the Lord GOD shall slay thee,
and call his servants by another name:
Isa.65:16
That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth;
and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth;
because the former troubles are forgotten,
and because they are hid from mine eyes.
Isa.65:17
For,
behold,
I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.
Isa.65:18
But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create:
for,
behold,
I create Jerusalem a rejoicing,
and her people a joy.

Last Edited by MHz on 06/29/2010 03:16 PM
Anonymous Coward
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06/29/2010 03:20 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Revelation talks about a 2nd death after resurrection....dead for all eternity
MuadDib987 (nli)

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06/29/2010 03:46 PM

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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Revelation talks about a 2nd death after resurrection....dead for all eternity
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1017896


That's not a bad thing, actually. Those of us In Christ have crucified the old self, and he remains forever dead, yes?

Christ is said to baptize us in fire. . .we can either undergo the process now voluntarily, as we submit to the crises and sufferings that He lays before us, or we can postpone it until a later time, at which point it'll be unavoidable.
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
MuadDib987 (nli)

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06/29/2010 04:03 PM

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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
In Jeremiah, God is addressing his people's sins. He mentions in three places (chapters 7, 19 & 32) the practice of burning their children in real fire, a ritual they adopted from the pagans. Of this horrible act, He says such a thing never entered His mind.
How could he say this if in fact hell were real and people end up there every day? You suppose perhaps God is lying to Jeremiah? Or maybe possibly the highly popular Doctrine of Hell is the lie here, since it's unscriptural?
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
nzreva (OP)

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06/29/2010 04:27 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
It is worth noting (IMO) that there is only one thing that is eternal. God is eternal.

Meaning he has always existed, and always will. This is the pure definition of 'eternal.'

What we are, is everlasting. Meaning we had a beginning, but that our souls will last from our beginning,

.....to forever without an ending.

We have not always existed, therefore, we are hardly eternal.

But we are everlasting.
 Quoting: KLB 1019687

Eternal and everlasting come from the same word aion aionios
nzreva (OP)

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06/29/2010 04:29 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
5 stars, OP

But if we look into the original Hebrew & Greek scripture, we'll find that God is *not* the heartless monster they've been selling us.

I see you have drank the poison of Gayry Amirault. As someone who admits to thinking God is a "heartless monster" I can see how you embrace such error.
As a Universalist you must
1)ignore the many scriptures which teach there is torment after death and cling to a few parables.
2)Ignore clear scripture of 2 distinct kinds of mankind
3)Ignore clear teaching that there are conditions that man must do to "escape" judgment.

I see you espouse the scriptue is error tactic.
For someone to claim being a Christian, but rather follow error and clear biblical teaching by claiming biblical error, admit the truth.
You aint no Christian.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098

no I did not I AM a believer in 1 Timothy 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
nzreva (OP)

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06/29/2010 04:42 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
why do we think we are wiser than God? we demand punishment to satisfy our corrupt minds and deceitful hearts. The Bible clearly says the wages of sin is death,if you eat of this tree you will surely die,fear him who can destroy both body and soul.hell is interpeted the 'grave" both in hebrew and greek. He uses the terms perish,death,the grave ,buired,destroy,etc. When Christ spoke he spoke in parables,without a parable he did not speak.

The Bible says they(we) come out of the womb speaking lies,do you believe that God would seen an infant or unborn children to suffer an enternally of fire? We must read the Bible through open eyes and this can only come from God if he chooses to.

No the unborn have not reached the age of accountability. Some retarded adults may fall into the catagory.

Funny you admit about thinking of being wiser than God. You have absolutly no concept of God's Holy Nature.
I would suggest you look into this aspect of God. This is why there is punishment and hell.
[link to www.gty.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 754098

hell and eternity mistranslations
nzreva (OP)

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06/29/2010 04:43 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
In Jeremiah, God is addressing his people's sins. He mentions in three places (chapters 7, 19 & 32) the practice of burning their children in real fire, a ritual they adopted from the pagans. Of this horrible act, He says such a thing never entered His mind.
How could he say this if in fact hell were real and people end up there every day? You suppose perhaps God is lying to Jeremiah? Or maybe possibly the highly popular Doctrine of Hell is the lie here, since it's unscriptural?
 Quoting: MuadDib987 (nli)

hf
nzreva (OP)

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06/29/2010 04:44 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Revelation talks about a 2nd death after resurrection....dead for all eternity
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1017896

eternity = aion= age dead for ages or an age
nzreva (OP)

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06/29/2010 04:50 PM
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Re: Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
It is worth noting (IMO) that there is only one thing that is eternal. God is eternal.

Meaning he has always existed, and always will. This is the pure definition of 'eternal.'

What we are, is everlasting. Meaning we had a beginning, but that our souls will last from our beginning,

.....to forever without an ending.

We have not always existed, therefore, we are hardly eternal.

But we are everlasting.

read it in Greek and Hebrew no word Eternas that is the Latin word for eternal


I know Hebrew because I was raised speaking it, in Israel.

God is eternal and eternity is his domain.

When 'eternity' is cited in the OT, it means God's abode. He lives in eternity.

The word eternity always means in the context of God, not man.

And, there is no word for eternal in Greek.

Aionios means: without end, never to cease, everlasting, forever.

Not eternal.

It's western culture that has translated it in error.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the aionios began, aionios is in this scripture it is before, so there is a before aionios. If you spesak Hebrew then you know olam has an endi;ng


First, there is no word to describe that God has no beginning. It is a concept that men cannot grasp or describe. It's beyond language. In Hebrew we speak of that point in time as being that you cannot go back that far because there is no beginning point. So, we say before in describing the beginning point. Before, before, if you will.

'olam' is world.

'olam hazeh' is this world.

'olam haba' is the world to come.

olam definiton

But, I am not going to argue with you about it.

No big deal.
 Quoting: KLB 1019687


Two everlastings two olams= two ages
NAU Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were born Or You gave birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.

YLT Psalm 90:2 Before mountains were brought forth, And Thou dost form the earth and the world, Even from age unto age Thou art God.

Last Edited by nzreva on 06/29/2010 04:51 PM

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