Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

Hey, guess what?

In the big picture....

It does not matter what any of you think.

It does not matter what I think, either.


And, here's the clincher.....

Nobody on this thread will be standing with you (or me) upon, or after our death.

It's just you!

You think you will be standing there saying, gee, should have listened to that guy/gal on GLP?

Imagine people actually think themselves that important. (hee hee hee)

The important thing is that we get it right.

If we don't *that* is what we will be thinking about.

It's true.

Way to show how little you know. The only ones to ever enter the fiery lake are fallen angels.

Isa.65:23
They shall not labour in vain,
nor bring forth for trouble;
for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD,
and their offspring with them.
Isa.65:24
And it shall come to pass,
that before they call,
I will answer;
and while they are yet speaking,
I will hear.
Isa.65:25
The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock:
and dust shall be the serpent's meat.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain,
saith the LORD.

<< 103 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY
AND
THE SALVATION OF ALL

(Scriptures compiled by Elwin R. Roach)

(49 Old Testament listings)

1) Is 46:10.............God will do ALL His pleasure
2) Dan 4:35...........God's will done in heaven & earth, none can stop Him
3) Prov 16:9...........Man devises, but God directs his steps
4) Prov 19:21.........Man devises, but God's counsel stands
5) Prov 16:33.........THE WHOLE DISPOSING thereof is of the Lord
6) Ps 37:23............The steps of man are ordered of God
7) Psa 33:10..........The LORD bringeth the counsel & devices of the heathen & the people to naught & of none effect.
8) Ps 33:15...........God fashions ALL hearts
9) Job 5:17-18.......God wounds then He makes whole
10) Hos 6:1-2........God tears, but in the third day He heals
11) Deut 32:39......God kills & makes alive, He wounds but then heals
12) Ps 90:3............God turns man to destruction, then says return
13) Jer 18:2-6........God mars vessels & then remakes them
14) Lam 3:31-32...God will not cast off forever
15) Ps 102:18-20..God will loosen those appointed to death
16) Is 2:2..............ALL nations will flow to the Lord's house
17) Joel 3:21.........God will cleanse blood not cleansed
18) Gen 18:18.......ALL families of the earth will be blessed
19) Is 45:22..........ALL the earth commanded to look and be saved
20) Is 45:23..........Unto God ALL will bow & every tongue swear
21) Is 40:3-5.........Highway of God enables ALL flesh to see His glory
22) Ps 138:4.........ALL kings will praise God
23) Ps 72:17.........ALL nations will call Him blessed
24) Ps 86:9...........ALL nations will worship God & ALL men blessed
25) Is 52:10..........ALL earth will see the salvation of God
26) Ps 65:2-4........ALL flesh will come to God
27) Is 11:9.............The earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord
28) Ps 66:3-4.........Enemies will submit & ALL earth will worship
29) Is 19:14-25......Egypt & Assyria will be restored
30) Ezk 16:55........Sodom will be restored
31) Ps 68:18...........God will lead (all) captivity captive to dwell in man
32) Is 54:5..............He will be called the God of THE WHOLE EARTH
33) Ps 22:25-29......ALL will remember & turn unto the Lord
34) Ps 145:9-10......God is good to ALL & merciful to His works
35) Ps 145:14.........Raises ALL that fall & ALL that be bowed down
36) Ps 145:15.........Eyes of ALL wait upon God & He will and gives them meat in due season.
37) Ps 145:16.........Will satisfy desire of ALL living
38) Ps 145:9...........The Lord is good to ALL
39) Ps 145:10.........ALL Thy works shall praise thee
40) Ps 24:1.............The Earth is the Lord's and the FULNESS thereof , and they who dwell therein
41) Is 25:6..............The Lord will make unto ALL people a feast
42) Is 25:7..............He will destroy the veil that's cast over ALL
43) Is 25:8..............He will swallow up death (ALL death) in victory
44) Is 25:8..............He will wipe away tears from ALL faces
45) Jer 32:35..........It never entered His mind to pass sons & daughters through the fire of Molech
46) Ps 135:6...........The Lord did what pleased Him in heaven, earth, and the sea
47) Is 26:9.............When God's judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants will learn righteousness
48) Is 53:11...........He shall see of the travail of His soul, and shall be satisfied.
49) Gen 12:3..........All families of the earth shall be blessed.



103 REASONS TO BELIEVE IN GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY AND THE SALVATION OF ALL (Cont.)

(54 New Testament listings)

1) Eph 1:11..........God works ALL things after counsel of His will
2) Jn 8:29.............Jesus ALWAYS does which pleases His Father
3) I Tim 2:4.........God will have ALL to be saved
4) I Jn 4:14..........Jesus sent to be the Savior of the world
5) Jn 4:34............Jesus to do the will of God who sent Him
6) Jn 12:47..........Jesus came to save ALL
7) I Tim 2:6.........Jesus gave Himself a ransom for ALL
8) Jn 5:36 ...........He will finish the works He was sent to do
9) Jn 4:42............Jesus is the Savior of the world
10) Jn 12:32.........Jesus will draw ALL to Himself
11) Heb 7:25........Jesus is able to save to the uttermost
12) Col 1:15.........Jesus the first born of ALL creation
13) Col 1:16.........By Him ALL things were created
14) Rm 5:15-21....In Adam ALL condemned, in Christ ALL live
15) I Cor 15:22....In Adam ALL die, in Christ ALL live
16) Eph 1:10........ALL come into Him at the fulness of times
17) I Cor 15:26....Death, the last enemy, will be destroyed
18) Phl 2:9-11.....EVERY TONGUE shall confess Jesus is Lord
19) I Cor 12:3......Cannot confess except by THE HOLY SPIRIT
20) Rm 11:26.......ALL Israel will be saved
21) Act 3:20-21....Restitution (Reconstitution) of ALL
22) Lk 2:10...........Jesus will be the joy to ALL people
23) Eph 2:7...........His grace to be shown in the ages to come
24) Heb 8:11-12...ALL will know God
25) Lk 3:6.............ALL flesh shall see the salvation of God
26) Titus 2:11.......Grace has appeared to ALL
27) Rm 8:19-21....Creation freed from corruption
28) Col 1:20..........ALL reconciled unto God
29) I Cor 4:5..........ALL will have praise of God
30) Jms 5:11..........End of the Lord is full of mercy
31) Rev 15:4..........ALL Nations worship when judgments seen
32) II Cor 5:17.......ALL becomes a new creation in Christ
33) Rm 11:32.........ALL subjected to unbelief, mercy on ALL
34) Rm 11:36.........ALL out of God, thru Him, and into Him
35) Eph 4:10...........Jesus will fill ALL things
36) Rev 5:13...........ALL creation seen praising God
37) I Cor 15:28.......God will be ALL in ALL
38) Rev 21:4-5........No more tears, ALL things made new
39) Jn 5:25..............ALL dead who hear will live
40) Jn 5:28..............ALL in the grave will hear & come forth
41) Jn 6:39.............And this is the Father's...I should lose nothing
42) Jn 6:12.............Gather up the fragments that...that nothing be lost
43) I Cor 3:15.........ALL saved, yet so as by fire
44) Mk 9:49...........Everyone shall be salted with fire
45) II Cor 5:15........Jesus died for ALL
46) I Jn 2:2..............Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world
47) Rm 11:15..........Reconciliation of the world
48) Heb 2:2.............He is the heir of ALL things
49) Jn 3:35..............ALL has been given into His hand
50) Jn 17:2..............Jesus will give eternal life to ALL that His Father gives Him
51) Jn 6:44-45.........ALL to be taught of God and will come
52) I Tim 4:9-11......Jesus is the Savior of ALL
53) Acts 13:47.........Salvation unto the ends of the earth
54) Gal 3:8................All nations shall be blessed. >>

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

What?! B-but wouldn't this infringe on our exclusive little club?!


;)

That's what gets me the most about the most "ardent" Christians...everyone else is "evil" and going to hell.

I am a Nazoraion or Nzrolam

Yep

My, My, My! I guess this is the example of why I stay around GLP.

This is simply one of the most completely wrong attempts at someone trying to use Scripture to support their opinion.

The poster did not list verse #20 where the CONEXT of the verse is established.

Vese #29..."There will be no more days thence an INFANT of days, nor an OLD MAN, that hath not filled his days, for the CHILD will die an hundred years old but the SINNER being an hundred years old will be accursed.

Verse #22...." (b) For the days of a tree are the days of MY PEOPLE and mine Elect shall enjoy the work of their hands."

The picture in view is the people living in the 1000 year rule of Christ right after Armageddon. It is about the saved Israelites of the Tribulation Peroid who shall enter the Kingdom of Christ.

The ones who enter the Lake of Fire are of course ALL the demons and ALL WHO HAVE REJECTED CHRIST.

REV. 19:21
Rev. 20:14-15
Rev. 22:8
Rev. 22:27
Rev.22:15

NOPE! It is not Christians that say that.

It is God Himself who said that and Christians simply believe what God has said.

The only ones to ever enter the fiery lake are fallen angels.

Isa.65:23
They shall not labour in vain,
nor bring forth for trouble;
for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD,
and their offspring with them.
Isa.65:24
And it shall come to pass,
that before they call,
I will answer;
and while they are yet speaking,
I will hear.
Isa.65:25
The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock:
and dust shall be the serpent's meat.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain,
saith the LORD.


We'll see, hope you stick it out at least as long as the Woe!, Woe!, Woe! part of Revelation. The men sent to hell at Christ's return are still in hell while Satan has his 'little season', hell is emptied out only at the Great White Throne which is after the 'little season' and the fire from heaven is said to end the life of this earth, as we know it now and including the time until the 1,000 reign is over.

Re.20:9
And they went up on the breadth of the earth,
and compassed the camp of the saints about,
and the beloved city:
and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Re.20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,
where the beast and the false prophet are,
and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Re.20:11
And I saw a great white throne,
and him that sat on it,
from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;
and there was found no place for them.
Re.20:12
And I saw the dead,
small and great,
stand before God;
and the books were opened:
and another book was opened,
which is the book of life:
and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books,
according to their works.
Re.20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;
and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:
and they were judged every man according to their works.

Since they are not part of the 'little season' they do not suffer the same fate as these ones in the verse below.

Isa.51:6
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

Jude is about fallen angels and the mention of 10,000 saints in Enoch's prophecies was a reference to something that Moses mentioned as having already passed by the time of the exodus. Feel free to start anyplace in that book and blend that with what Peter had to say about fallen angels.
The verse below is when they were put into the pit (well without water)

De.33:2
And he said,
The LORD came from Sinai,
and rose up from Seir unto them;
he shined forth from mount Paran,
and he came with ten thousands of saints:
from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

2Pe.2:12
But these,
as natural brute beasts,
made to be taken and destroyed,
speak evil of the things that they understand not;
and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe.2:13
And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness,
as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time.
Spots they are and blemishes,
sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe.2:14
Having eyes full of adultery,
and that cannot cease from sin;
beguiling unstable souls:
an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe.2:15
Which have forsaken the right way,
and are gone astray,
following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor,
who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe.2:16
But was rebuked for his iniquity:
the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2Pe.2:17
These are wells without water,
clouds that are carried with a tempest;
to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Pe.2:18
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity,
they allure through the lusts of the flesh,
through much wantonness,
those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe.2:19
While they promise them liberty,
they themselves are the servants of corruption:
for of whom a man is overcome,
of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe.2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein,
and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe.2:21
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
than,
after they have known it,
to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe.2:22
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb,
The dog is turned to his own vomit again;
and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



OMG, is that allowed, using Scripture to support a 'doctrine'. How about all of Isaiah 65, one passage that it addressed to the ones that Christ will kill at His return. The 'servants' will be all of Israel going back to Jacob and Israel and a 'remnant of the Nations' commonly called the Church. There are alive for the whole 1,000 and they have a glorified body so they are not married and they are not given in marriage so they do not have any children during this 1,000 years.

M't.22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry,
nor are given in marriage,
but are as the angels of God in heaven.

All of these ones will not be tempted by Satan and the fallen angels, they are called Saints and their next position is being introduced to Almighty GOD as 'just men made perfect' (Heb.12) and they become Priests and Kings to the ones who were not alive on earth for the 1,000 years. Judgment Day is the end of their 1,000 year punishment. GOD greets them as 'pardoned sinners'. They are given a new Law in Re.21 and that is the Law everyone alive for the 1,000 years would have been under and that is the same Law all heavenly beings would have been under back when Satan lied to Eve. Satan was a liar and a murderer, to do that you have to be under some form of Law.


Revelation 21 is the NT version of this part of things, along with the new earth being revealed there is also the revealing of New Jerusalem, a city that is 1500mi/side. The ones alive for the 1,000 live in the city forever, the one called 'the rest' are the ones who live an build outside the city, building Nations and tending to the ones they have dominion over, the beasts of the field.

Isa.65:17
For,
behold,
I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.
Isa.65:18
But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create:
for,
behold,
I create Jerusalem a rejoicing,
and her people a joy.
Isa.65:19
And I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and joy in my people:
and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her,
nor the voice of crying.



Back in Ge.6 God determined His breath of life would be with a man until 120 years then death and then judgment as to whether he is a sinner or a repented sinner. Most die before that time so they fall under this form of being preached to.

1Pe.4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead,
that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

To sum this up a little. When Vs.29 is applied to the new earth you have a static population that lives in (new)Jerusalem and they are Priests and Kings to the ones who live outside the city (they can also have children between the age of 20 and the age of 120).

The counting is from birth to judgment it is 120 years.
An 'infant' is from birth until the age of 20 (OT age for going to war). This is when an infant dies (an infant of days gives way to an infant measured in years)and the infant is now called a 'child' for the period between 20 and 120. At that time the 'child' dies and if the person is found to not be a sinner they are called and 'old man' and their days are eternal.
With 20 being the age of accountability if a person sinned and never repented they would be found to be a sinner at the age of 120 (making them a sinner of 100 years) and that would mean the death in the lake, 2nd death. The 2nd birth means you have met Christ personally and you have seen the face of GOD.



My people changes with the location of events, my people at the beginning of the 1,000 years is not the same number as 'my people' when spoken in Re.21. The verse below if talking about Gentiles (Church) and that is true only because the time is pinpointed to the return that is still in our future.

Zec.13:7
Awake,
O sword,
against my shepherd,
and against the man that is my fellow,
saith the LORD of hosts:
smite the shepherd,
and the sheep shall be scattered:
and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zec.13:8
And it shall come to pass,
that in all the land,
saith the LORD,
two parts therein shall be cut off and die;
but the third shall be left therein.
Zec.13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire,
and will refine them as silver is refined,
and will try them as gold is tried:
they shall call on my name,
and I will hear them:
I will say,
It is my people:
and they shall say,
The LORD is my God.



It is about every Israelite that can be numbered by a literal reading of Exekiel 37:1-12 and every Gentile that is referenced in the above verse and they are the subject of all of Zec.14. The remnant of the Nations.
The ones in torment are the ones that are called the 2/3 (plus whatever sorting is covered in the beginning of Daniel 12)


The ones who go to the lake are angelic beings.

M't.8:28
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes,
there met him two possessed with devils,
coming out of the tombs,
exceeding fierce,
so that no man might pass by that way.
M't.8:29
And,
behold,
they cried out,
saying,
What have we to do with thee,
Jesus,
thou Son of God?
art thou come hither to torment us before the time?


Same event as this (as well as a few more)
Eze.39:4
Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel,
thou,
and all thy bands,
and the people that is with thee:
I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort,
and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.


Re.20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;
and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:
and they were judged every man according to their works.

The ones being judged in your reference have just served their sentences when Christ sent them there when He first claim the earth back when the 7th trump of Re.11 sounded. They do not get punished twice for the same crime. They are the ones being chastised in Hebrews 12, God gives them a drink from the living water. The whole House of Israel is alive and well and drinking (along with the Church) as described in Jeremiah 31.

Da.12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up,
the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble,
such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:
and at that time thy people shall be delivered,
every one that shall be found written in the book.
Da.12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
some to everlasting life,
and some to shame and everlasting contempt.




Vs.17 is for the ones who come out of death and hell before those 'places' are sent to the lake, there are no people left in them at that time.

[link to www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org]

"The Meaning of Eternal and Everlasting"

Everlasting in Daniel 12 cannot extend past the appointed times. Hell has an everlasting fire and it is a place of everlasting torment but it has a finite time for people being in it. It is a place of punishment, when released that punishment is complete, that covers the sins of the 1st birth, the one of the flesh.

You are assuming that Re.20 means the Judgment means their names are not found. They are already described in Re.7. Hell for 1,000 years is 'great tribulation'.

Re.2:22
Behold,
I will cast her into a bed,
and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation,
except they repent of their deeds.

Re.7:9
After this I beheld,
and,
lo,
a great multitude,
which no man could number,
of all nations,
and kindreds,
and people,
and tongues,
stood before the throne,
and before the Lamb,
clothed with white robes,
and palms in their hands;
Re.7:10
And cried with a loud voice,
saying,
Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne,
and unto the Lamb.

Re.7:14
And I said unto him,
Sir,
thou knowest.
And he said to me,
These are they which came out of great tribulation,
and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Re.7:15
Therefore are they before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night in his temple:
and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Re.7:16
They shall hunger no more,
neither thirst any more;
neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Re.7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters:
and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

The tears mentioned are the ones in Re.21, they belong to the ones just raised, the ones alive for the 1,000 years come to Judgment Day already perfected.

Heb.12:22
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb.12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Where are you living? I wanna move there.

Eternal is a Latin word not in the Hebrew or Greek bible.
Thread: The last day of health freedom.

Last Edited by nzreva on 07/07/2010 04:43 PM

Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matt: 25:41


"If thy hand offend thee cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: There their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, that having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43-48).

Exactly. When they were translating the orignal Greek into Latin, they weren't sure whether to use aeternum or seclorum for the Greek word aion, so they actually used *both* interchangably. Then these texts were used during the translation to English, which is why we have verses where the original word aion is translated as "world", and some where it properly says "age".

The bible is likely the most edited publication in history. Yet millions of us will swear by any book that says "Bible" on the cover, as though it floated down from the sky as-is.

never living again = eternal punishment....

The Bible teaches every human shall be raised from the dead. You will be confronted with every wrong thing you have ever done and either accept rehabilitation and learn to live a life of righteousness or you will choose to die a second time... forever...

I find many people love sin so much they would rather die than to give it up... go figure.

Those who accept Jesus can escape the judgment the rest of the earth has to go through... but even the majority of those who face judgment will have lived a life and reaped the consequences of sin (death) and will choose to rehabilitate...

Judgment doesn't = death, judgment is simple the ability to distinguish the difference between right and wrong... after judgment there is rehabilitation...

The word "hell" there is actually Gehenna, the name of an actual place just outside Jerusalem. It was their city dump - a maggot-infested trash fire, where the bodies of criminals were tossed instead of receiving an honorable burial. For some reason, though, the translators refused to just use the place's name, and subbed the word "hell", thus tainting the meaning of the warning entirely. (But lots of people are OK with this, so your mileage may vary.)

Even with "hell" not properly rendered in the KJV, the KJV is still the best English Bible. All the rest have many other errors.

That's the way I look at it. It is best to know the truth about hell but still not use corrupt Bibles.

KJV1611/Geneva1560 - anything after that has been produced by the enemy.

I don't believe in the Sarah Palin brand of Christianity as I call it, they focus on how if you believe Jesus died for your sins you get a free one-way ticket to heaven, and we must kill all the muslims because God wills it. I want to find a church in my town that believes in a loving God.

The only problem with that is that it assumes everyone is born the same, and they aren't. Some people are born to be bad if you will, some are saintly by nature.

I have a problem with that too, all the different translations.

I guess I'll just be doomed to hell because I'm not capable of believing some of these things, in fact I suppose I'll have a lot of company because there will always be other religions or sects that say all the people of the other one will go to hell, and everyone believes in another one to someone, if that makes sense!

Really doesn't matter what the Bible says since it's all bullshit anyways.

There's just not much truth in you.

16:13 "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet."

I hear ya NZREVA, but you are pretty much trying to teach thick headed people who have been taught to not think, not question, etc. They cannot logically grasp that the bible was written in another language and was subjectively "interpreted" to english. They believe verbatum what is written in the modern versions of the bible and don't even question what the original words meant, in fact. So many subtle yet significant concepts were lost in the poor translations. Christians get very angry because their beliefs are challenged...instead of thinking and maybe realizing that there is so much more to God than they ever considered. The idea of a merciful God seems to threaten them. The idea that one won't spend "eternity" suffering or hanging out with satan...me thinks they need to cling to fear because without it, they might not be so "devout."

(should actually have been "seculum" above. . .not sure where I got "seclorum" from)