Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 2,743 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 48,235
Pageviews Today: 94,820Threads Today: 43Posts Today: 828
12:41 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Why are there forgeries in the bible?

 
Bible Fraud
User ID: 1033299
United States
07/15/2010 10:50 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Why are there forgeries in the bible?
I would like to focus on the New Testament for this thread, since I haven't really studied much of the Old Testament.

Of the 27 separate books in the NT, only eight books, just eight, have been established as authentic, meaning they can actually be traced back to the original author.

The authenticated books include seven letters written by the Apostle Paul (aka Saul of Tarsus):

-Romans
-1 and 2 Corinthians
-Galatians
-Philippians
-1 Thessalonians
-Philemon

The other authenticated book is the Revelation of John, although no one knows exactly who this John really was.

The rest of the 19 books of the NT are forgeries, yes FORGERIES. They include gospels that were written anonymously but later had the names of disciples added to the works, to give the appearance that they were actually written by a disciple when they actually were not.

Other works from the NT include letters that were outright forgeries, written with intentional deception, to trick readers into thinking they were reading a work by someone important, such as the apostle Paul or Peter, when they actually were not.
Some of the outright forgeries include:

1 and 2 Peter
2 Thessalonians
Colossians
Ephesians
1 and 2 Timothy
Titus

It is accepted by many critical scholars that the books listed above and others were not written by the authors claimed to have written them. They are forgeries in one way or another.
Forgeries and plagiarism were actually quite common in the ancient world and early Christianity is littered with examples of this.

Now let me ask this question.
Knowing full well that the New Testament does contain forgeries, how can one justify their faith and belief in light of this damaging evidence? And keep in mind, I'm just focusing on the biblical forgeries for this thread. Other issues, like contradictions and discrepancies in the bible, I'm not even taking into account.

Sources:
If you wish to have more in-depth information on biblical forgery, check out Misquoting Jesus by New Testament historian Bart D. Ehrman. His other book, Jesus Interrupted, is fantastic as well.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1033299
United States
07/15/2010 10:56 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why are there forgeries in the bible?
bump for discussion
Full Circle

User ID: 1036877
Canada
07/15/2010 11:04 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why are there forgeries in the bible?
Because those are the books allowed in that supported the agenda of the time.

I've even read books where John is a rebuttal to the gospel of Thomas.


They allowed in books that bolstered their case for Jesus' divinity. Paul was completely misinterpreted from that point on.
Born into this World
We create echoes of our inward yearnings
And Shift along the Axis
From matter to Spirit
- Scott Mutter
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1037625
United States
07/15/2010 11:04 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why are there forgeries in the bible?
Why are there forgeries in the bible?

Probably a case of zealous believers trying to makes their religion seem "legit." But then again, I haven't read much on this topic, so that is an educated guess.
SmartestOne

User ID: 1016633
United States
07/15/2010 11:11 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why are there forgeries in the bible?
Well that depends on WHO is doing the authenticating.

Many believe, for example, that Paul was a heretic and that his entire "gospel" should be thrown out!! So much for your seven "authentic" books.
~The most plagiarized poster on GLP!~

Paultards started the war, but I won it!

Ron Paul: Pro Amnesty
[link to teapartywest.com]
Ron Paul's Golden Globalism
[link to killtheempire.blogspot.com]
Paul Supports Globalization and One World Currency
[link to libertyrevival.wordpress.com]
Ron Paul Gives "Horned Hand" Sign
[link to troyspace2.wordpress.com]
Ron Paul Flashing Satanic Hand Signs
[link to ssl.scroogle.org (secure)]
Ron Paul Gives Masonic Handshake /Decades in DC = HIGH-DEGREE Freemason
[link to freemasonry-watch.blogspot.com]
Ron Paul and the Jesuits [link to www.spirituallysmart.com]
Devvy Kidd Rips Paul a New One [link to www.newswithviews.com]
Paul always talks about LIBERTY, hardly ever FREEDOM. What "LIBERTY" Means to Freemasons
[link to www.texemarrs.com]
Lewis Lehrman, Paul's coauthor: Yale grad, Woodrow Wilson Fellow at Harvard, Knight of Malta
[link to revoltnow.wetpaint.com]
Paul's Austrian School of Economics hero, Ludwig Von Mises, participant in Pan European Union movement and sponsored by Rockefeller
[link to watch.pair.com]
Paul camp hires NEOCON ZIONIST FASCIST "PIMP" LOBBYIST Bruce Fein
[link to www.boilingfrogspost.com]

Ron Paul Descended from Knights Templar and Nazis
[link to imageshack.us]

*The USA has NOT BEEN HIJACKED! Learn the TRUTH! 200+ years of LIES AND DECEPTION unmasked! Discount for GLP posters! Contact me for details*

Your ignorance does not constitute "craziness" on the part of others.

Let's talk Freemasonry! I'm armed with Pike, Mackey, and Hall.
SmartestOne

User ID: 1016633
United States
07/15/2010 11:11 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why are there forgeries in the bible?
Well that depends on WHO is doing the authenticating.

Many believe, for example, that Paul was a heretic and that his entire "gospel" should be thrown out!! So much for your seven "authentic" books.
~The most plagiarized poster on GLP!~

Paultards started the war, but I won it!

Ron Paul: Pro Amnesty
[link to teapartywest.com]
Ron Paul's Golden Globalism
[link to killtheempire.blogspot.com]
Paul Supports Globalization and One World Currency
[link to libertyrevival.wordpress.com]
Ron Paul Gives "Horned Hand" Sign
[link to troyspace2.wordpress.com]
Ron Paul Flashing Satanic Hand Signs
[link to ssl.scroogle.org (secure)]
Ron Paul Gives Masonic Handshake /Decades in DC = HIGH-DEGREE Freemason
[link to freemasonry-watch.blogspot.com]
Ron Paul and the Jesuits [link to www.spirituallysmart.com]
Devvy Kidd Rips Paul a New One [link to www.newswithviews.com]
Paul always talks about LIBERTY, hardly ever FREEDOM. What "LIBERTY" Means to Freemasons
[link to www.texemarrs.com]
Lewis Lehrman, Paul's coauthor: Yale grad, Woodrow Wilson Fellow at Harvard, Knight of Malta
[link to revoltnow.wetpaint.com]
Paul's Austrian School of Economics hero, Ludwig Von Mises, participant in Pan European Union movement and sponsored by Rockefeller
[link to watch.pair.com]
Paul camp hires NEOCON ZIONIST FASCIST "PIMP" LOBBYIST Bruce Fein
[link to www.boilingfrogspost.com]

Ron Paul Descended from Knights Templar and Nazis
[link to imageshack.us]

*The USA has NOT BEEN HIJACKED! Learn the TRUTH! 200+ years of LIES AND DECEPTION unmasked! Discount for GLP posters! Contact me for details*

Your ignorance does not constitute "craziness" on the part of others.

Let's talk Freemasonry! I'm armed with Pike, Mackey, and Hall.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1029779
United States
07/15/2010 11:21 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why are there forgeries in the bible?
The whole new testament is a forgery in that the books were written to suppurt a non-existant being and theology.

ALL RELIGION is a LIE from the Serpent/Beast to destroy humankind.
ven
User ID: 1036414
United States
07/15/2010 11:22 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why are there forgeries in the bible?
Some Catholics and Freemasons hate the Bible. They used to burn it now they just slander.

You just need to get your info on the Bible from a scholarly Christian and not an atheist or Catholic. Catholics have church and tradition over the bible.


Wasn't the New Testament written hundreds of years after Christ?

Though some say that the New Testament was written 100-300 years after Christ died, the truth is that it was written before the close of the first century by those who either knew Christ personally, had encountered him, or were under the direction of those who were His disciples.

In the article When were the gospels written and by whom?, I demonstrated that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written before 70 A.D. Basically, the book of Acts was written by Luke. Since Acts 1:1-2 mentions that it is the second writing of Luke, the gospel of Luke was written even earlier.

Revelation
The author of the Book of Revelation is John. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John," (Rev. 1:1). Justin Martyr (Dialogue with Trypho, p. 308) (A.D.. 139–161) quotes from the Apocalypse, as John the apostle’s work.

Revelation was probably written at the end of John the Apostle's life. Some hold to the 90's and it is the last book written in the New Testament.

[link to www.carm.org]

These books as found in todays canon of the King James NT were agreed upon as scripture, and no other, in the second century or earlier as they became available.

Fact #1) The fact of the four-fold gospel is reflected in the "Muratorian Fragment" that Irenaeus was writing, around 170 A.D. The Muratorian Fragment lists for us basically the whole New Testament canon and it shows us that the four-fold gospel was an established fact by then.
[link to www.newworldencyclopedia.org]

Fact #2) We have approximately 50 manuscripts of the New Testament that pre-date the Roman takeover of the established church in the 4th century.

Fact #3) We have more than 32 THOUSAND New Testament quotations from the early church writers of the 2nd and 3rd centuries. In fact, we could recreate virtually the entire New Testament just from the quotes of the early church writers of the 2nd and 3rd centuries. We can be quite certain that the New Testament we have today has come down to us just as it was from the earliest days, and we can be quite certain what they considered to be scripture.
[link to www.carm.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1034732
United States
07/15/2010 11:23 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why are there forgeries in the bible?
yawn
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1029779
United States
07/16/2010 01:00 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why are there forgeries in the bible?
 Quoting: ven 1036414


From THEIR ^^^^ "Statement of Faith":

Man's Condition: Man is fallen, corrupt, and wicked. Man believes in God by God's grace through faith (John 6:28-29; 15:5; Phil. 1:29), is unable to come close to God through his own efforts (John 6:44; Rom. 3:10-12), nor can he understand the spiritual things of God on his own (1 Cor. 2:14; Rom. 8:7), nor can he earn salvation by his attempt at good works (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:1-6), nor once saved does he maintain his salvation by his works (Gal. 3:1-3). Eternal punishment in hell and separation from the blessed presence of God are the consequences of the unregenerate person's sinfulness who has not trusted in the redemptive sacrificial work of Christ on the cross (Eph. 2:1-3; Rom. 6:23).


"Christianity" DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS THE LAW OF ALMIGHTY GOD:


"11 “What are your multiplied sacrifices to Me?”
Says God.
“I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fed cattle;
And I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs or goats.


12 “When you come to appear before Me,
Who requires of you this trampling of My courts?

13 “Bring your worthless offerings no longer,
Incense is an abomination to Me.
New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies—
I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly.

14 “I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts,
They have become a burden to Me;
I am weary of bearing them.


15 “So when you spread out your hands in prayer,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Yes, even though you multiply prayers,
I will not listen.
Your hands are covered with blood.

16 “Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight.
Cease to do evil,

17 Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Reprove the ruthless,
Defend the orphan,
Plead for the widow." Isaiah 1:11-17
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 739044
United States
07/16/2010 01:55 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Why are there forgeries in the bible?
I think the Bible is a guide to live by, but not every word to be believed without question. A lot of it was written for the times. I don't think God dictated it to anybody. It's useful because it tells us about the life and sayings of Jesus.
It was edited by the Catholic church who decided what to put in and leave out from all the different Christian writings that were around at the time. That is why I think it's weird when people argue that the Catholic church doesn't follow the Bible on everything. What difference does it make? It was their book to begin with and they decided what went in. They could just as easily have put in other writings and left other stuff out. That is not to say the Catholic Church doesn't have stuff wrong with it, but I'm not Catholic so I don't really care.
The New Testament is the only part that matters really for Christians. The OT contained a lot of pagan stuff that the Jews of the time still believed in. So I don't see the point in quibbling over it. I think people should just follow the Ten Commandments and the words of Jesus and not worry about the rest of it. It's really very simple.