Myths of British ancestry

cool info..thanks!

We know we have Basque blood, thats why we put the Basque Freedom Fighters up in a safe place with a new identity and job in Belfast........

Nice history lesson thank you

They did a dna study on 9,000 year old bones found in Gough's Cave at Cheddar, a place that had been inhabited for over 40,000 years and they found at least one descendent of those people still living in the area.

You are all welcome, I am not an expert, just interested in our heritage like most people.

How the Neanderthals became the Basques

What happened to the Neanderthals?

From a combination of old and new evidence, it appears that at last we have a satisfactory answer to the age-old question of 'What Happened to the Neanderthals?'. If the current reasoning is correct, their descendants are still with us, and we call them the Basques.

This theory therefore simultaneously answers a second age-old question, 'What is the Origin of the Basques'?

Robert J Sawyer has recently published his book "Hominids" [2], a fictional account of an interaction between Sapiens humans and Neanderthals, but drawing on the latest scientific research about Neanderthals.

This research included studies of DNA extracted from bones of Neanderthal remains. The account mentions five months of painstaking work to extract a 379-nucleotide fragment from the control region of the Neanderthal's mitochondrial DNA, followed by use of a polymerase chain reaction to reproduce millions of copies of the recovered DNA.

This was carefully sequenced and then a check made of the corresponding mitochondrial DNA from 1,600 modern humans: Native Canadians, Polynesians. Australians, Africans, Asians, and Europeans. Every one of those 1,600 people had at least 371 nucleotides out of those 379 the same; the maximum deviation was just 8 nucleotides.



But the Neanderthal DNA had an average of only 352 nucleotides in common with the modern specimens; it deviated by 27 nucleotides. It was concluded that Homo sapiens and Neanderthals must have diverged from each other between 550,000 and 690,000 years ago for their DNA to be so different.

In contrast, all modern humans probably shared a common ancestor 150,000 or 200,000 years in the past. It was concluded that Neanderthals were probably a fully separate species from modern humans, not just a subspecies: Homo neanderthalensis, not Homo sapiens neanderthalensis.

Looking now at the evidence for the theory that the Basques are descended principally from Neanderthals, everything suddenly falls into place, and the supposition becomes almost self-evident.

Location: The 'home country' of the Neanderthals is well known to have been western Europe. One source says that they "dominated this area for at least a quarter of a million years". Many of the best Neanderthal specimens have originated from the Iberian Peninsular. The Basque Country, lying on the western side of the Pyrenees and on the border between Spain and France, fits in neatly with this location.

The Basques are well-known to have distinctive body characteristics. Kurlansky says "Ample evidence exists that the Basques are a physically distinct group. There is a Basque type with a long straight nose, thick eyebrows, strong chin, and long earlobes" [1].

Basque skulls tend to be built on a different pattern. In the early 1880s, a researcher reported "Someone gave me a Basque body and I dissected it, and I assert that the head was not built like that of other men" [1].

These qualitative differences are indicative, but quantitative evidence, with presence or absence of features, or items being present in different numbers, has greater weight in deciding whether specimens belong to the same or different species. Powerful quantitative evidence comes from a consideration of blood factors.

Human blood is classified according to various parameters, the most important of which are ABO and Rhesus characteristics. In ABO, blood may contain the 'A' factor (giving A-group blood), the 'B' factor (B-group), both 'A' and 'B' (AB blood), or neither (O blood). The A and B factors act like antibodies, and if blood containing one or both of them is transferred to a person whose blood does not already contain them, adverse reactions occur. Group O blood contains neither antibody and can typically be transferred without reaction to any recipient.

Some 55% of Basques have Group O blood, one of the highest percentages in the world [3].

Even stronger evidence comes from the Rhesus factor, discovered only in 1940. The blood of most humans (and, apparently, all other primates [6]) contains this factor, and is called Rhesus-positive or Rh+ blood. Blood lacking this factor is called Rhesus-negative.

The Basques are well-known to have the highest percentage (around 33%) of Rhesus-negative blood of any human population [2], and so are regarded as the original source of this factor. In the United States, some 15% of the 'European' population are Rh-negative, while the percentage in the 'Asian' and 'Black' population is much less than this.

Possession of Rh-negative blood can be a major disadvantage for a human population. A Rh-negative woman who conceives a Rh-positive child with a Rh-positive man will typically bear her first child without special problems. However, because of intermingling of fluids between mother and foetus, the first pregnancy builds up antibodies to Rh+ blood in the woman which typically attack the blood of her subsequent Rh+ children, causing them to miscarry, be stillborn, or die shortly after birth (infant haemolytic disease [6]). This phenomenon is unknown elsewhere in nature, although it can occur with artificial crosses between species, as in mule production [6].

The scenario so far then is this. Around 600,000 years ago, in southern Europe, a species of man separated off from the ancestral line, and we call this species Homo neanderthalensis, the 'N-people'. The blood of this species contained none of the factors A, B, or Rh.

Much later, possibly around 200,000 years ago in Africa, the main human line had picked up the A, B, and Rh factors (possibly from other primates, the Rhesus factor is named after the Rhesus monkey or macaque), and by then could be classed as Homo sapiens, the 'S-people'.

In competition between related species or races, antibodies in their blood are a powerful genetic advantage for those who possess them when competing against those who don't. History has many examples of European settlers who quite unintentionally won out against native populations because the latter had no antibodies against diseases such as measles which the Europeans brought with them.

In the present scenario, a woman of the N-people (Basque, Rh-) who partnered with a man of the S-people (non-Basque, Rh+) would be likely to bear no more than a single child of the partnership. 'Mixed marriages' in humans are not usually genetically disadvantageous, but in this case they would be. The effect would be a continuing reduction in the N-people population as 'mixed' couples produced only a single child, half the nominal population-maintenance rate.

There are other physical characteristics of humans which are typically associated with Rh-negative blood, but which in the present scenario would be regarded as belonging to the N-people. These include early maturity, large head and eyes, high IQ [6], or an extra vertebra (a 'tail bone' -- called a 'cauda'), lower than normal body temperature, lower than normal blood pressure, and higher mental analytical abilities [5].



Another highly distinguishing feature of the Basques is their language, which is related to no other on earth. According to [3], its ancestor was spoken in western Europe before (possibly long before) the ancestors of all other modern western European languages. This source states that the most strenuous efforts at finding other relatives for Basque have been complete failures.

People have unsuccessfully tried to connect Basque with Berber, Egyptian and other African languages, with Iberian, Pictish, Etruscan, Minoan, Sumerian, the Finno-Ugric languages, the Caucasian languages, the Semitic languages, with almost all the languages of Africa and Asia, living and dead, and even with languages of the Pacific and of North America. Basque absolutely cannot be shown to be related to any other language at all [3].

The structure of the Basque language is also very distinctive, it is said to contain only nouns, verbs, and suffixes. The language strongly defines the Basque people [8]. In the Basque Language, called Euskera, there is no word for Basque. The only word defining a member of the group is Euskaldun, or Euskera speaker. The land is called Euskal Herria -- the land of Euskera speakers.


In the present scenario, Basque is the descendant of a spoken language originated by the N-people, independently of (and possibly at a much earlier time than) the languages of the S-people.

In an interesting study, Philip Lieberman [7] has looked at the mouth cavities and other presumed speech production features of Neanderthal fossils. According to his evaluation, Neanderthal people would have had difficulty in pronouncing the vowel 'ee'. This vowel is missing from normal Basque pronunciation [9].

If the present scenario is valid, then the Basques, mostly stemming from the N-people, would of course be somewhat distinct genetically. In [3] the question is asked, "Are the Basques genetically different from other Europeans"? , with the answer, "Apparently, yes. Recently the geneticist Luiga Luca Cavalli-Sforza has completed a gene map of the peoples of Europe, and he finds the Basques to be strikingly different from their neighbours. The genetic boundary between Basques and non-Basques is very sharp on the Spanish side. On the French side, the boundary is more diffuse: it shades off gradually toward the Garonne in the north. These findings are entirely in agreement with what we know of the history of the Basque language".

The social relationships of the Basques with the rest of the world have been quite unusual for a distinctive human group. While always protecting their unique and separate identity, they have also always striven to interact, cooperate with, and sometimes lead the rest of the world.

Kurlansky points out the remarkable contributions the Basques have made to world history [1]. They were the explorers who connected Europe to the other continents in the Age of Exploration, in trade they were among the first capitalists, experimenting with tariff-free international trade and monopoly breaking, and in the industrial revolution they became leading shipbuilders, steelmakers, and manufacturers.

At the same time, the Basques have always been regarded as 'different', and so inevitably subjected to discriminatory treatment and (sometimes savage) persecution, as in the Franco years [3]. In my book 'Matrix Thinking' [4] I have examined the underlying forces driving interactions between human groups, using the term SIOS, and the way groups recognize and act on differences between those inside and outside their own group.

Genetic differences are one of the most powerful recognition signals in this process, and so it cannot be unexpected that the Basques have suffered in this way. Nowadays such events are regarded in a very negative light, as pointlessly discriminatory. In the Basque case there is some rare justification for this -- a non-Basque man pairing with a Basque women might have expected to have only one child of the marriage, before recent medical procedures got round the Rhesus negative problem.

Language differences are also very powerful SIOS recognition signals, and it is interesting to look at the Basque case. The Basque language, while retaining its own distinct structure, has heavily borrowed words from other languages. Other languages have borrowed very few words from Basque, regarded as an 'inferior' language, and those that have come over often have had an uncomplimentary sense. As an example, Spanish has borrowed 'izquierdo' (meaning left, as in left-handed) from Basque, and words meaning 'left' often have a negative connotation (in English, 'gauche' and 'sinister' are from the French and Latin for 'left').

It has been suggested [5] that the Basques were the original inhabitants of Europe, and the architects of Stonehenge and similar megalithic structures. These constructions apparently used a unique system of measurement based on the number 7 (instead of 10, 12, or 60), representing a separate origin of a mathematical system.

To round out the present scenario, it is suggested that the present world population is a complex hybrid mixture of at least two human species, one classed as Homo neanderthalensis, the other (or others -- if the A and B blood factors originated from separate species) as Homo sapiens. The genes from these species are now so intermixed (as in cultivated roses) as to make the species name indeterminate.

Further genetic analysis, concentrating on the Basques, may reveal more on this. Research should cover both nuclear DNA, controlling sexually-inherited traits such as blood groups, and mitochondrial DNA, passed on unchanged from mother to child. For reasons given above, the N-people mitochondrial DNA may have now been bred out completely from modern world populations.

Perhaps the Human Genome project needs extension to cover the possible mix of origins. It would also be of interest to check whether any known Neanderthal skeletons had an extra vertebra.

There is an extensive website covering recorded Neanderthal fossils [10], and the information there generally supports the suggestion that the species have merged, with later N-people more similar to the S-people than older specimens.

[link to www.aoi.com.au]

Red hair a legacy of Neanderthal man

Red hair may be the legacy of Neanderthal man. Oxford University scientists think the ginger gene, which is responsible for red hair, fair skin and freckles, could be up to 100,000 years old. They say their discovery points to the gene having originated in Neanderthal man, who lived in Europe for 260,000 years before the ancestors of modern man arrived from Africa about 40,000 years ago.

Research leader Dr. Rosalind Harding said: "It is certainly possible that red hair comes from the Neanderthals." The Neanderthals are generally thought to have been a less intelligent species than modern man, Homo sapiens. They were taller and stockier, but with shorter limbs, bigger faces and noses, receding chins and low foreheads. They had a basic, guttural vocabulary of about 70 words, probably at the level of today's two-year-old, and they never developed a full language, art or culture.

They settled in Europe about 300,000 years ago, but 40,000 years ago, a wave of immigrants - our forefathers, Cro-Magnon Man - emerged from Africa and the two species co-existed for 10,000 years. Dr Harding's research - presented at a London conference of the Human Genome Organization during the week - suggests the two species interbred for the ginger gene to survive. Dr Harding said redheads should not be offended by being to the primitive Neanderthals. "If it's possible that we had ancestry from Neanderthals, then it says that Neanderthals were more similar to us than we previously thought," she said.

Scientists at the Weatherall Institute of Molecular Medicine, at Oxford University, compared the human ginger gene with the equivalent in chimpanzees. They found 16 differences, or mutations, between the two genes. Since an early version of the gene developed in chimps roughly 10 million years ago, the scientists estimated there has been one mutation every 625,000 years. They used a computer to calculate how long it must have taken for the mutation responsible for the ginger hair to have passed down through the generations and become so common among Western people.

They concluded the mutation was older than 50,000 years and could be as old as 100,000 years. Some scientists believe Neanderthals were ultra-humans - able to adapt to extremes of climate and surviving for 272,000 years. But they became extinct about 28,000 years ago, outwitted for territory and food by the more socially advanced Cro-Magnons.

[link to www.dhamurian.org.au]

Is the Basque language similar to Gaelic? Seems like it should be if this research is correct. Or maybe I need to study it again.

I'm not too sure, the article claims that the Basque language is related to no other language.
Doing a search in some sources still lays claim that Gaelic equals celtic, but if the evidence provided here is correct then there is no relation, so where does Gaelic come from?

Hmm, somebody decided to vote this thread downward, could it possibly be anything to do with the neanderthal connection?

I think the Neanderthal connection is a stretch. If they died out or became sterile somewhere along the way, how would they have passed on their DNA. I think there's another explanation still needing to be discovered for the uniqueness of the Basques and their language.

Basque is not related to any other language.

Gaelic languages ARE Celtic - Welsh, Scottish and Irish gaelic, Cornish and Breton (in France) are all related languages. In addition, Celtic languages are part of the Indo-European language family - split generally into Sanskrit (farsi, urdu, hindi, etc.), Latin, Germanic, Slavic and Greek.

Finno-Ugaric - the language of the Hungarians and fins is another separate language family from Indo-European.

Basque is it's own root language as such.

A lot of modern English people (especially those with the 'redhead gene') are descended from the Picts - whose language is lost but not their genes - which are more prevalent than anthropologists originally thought.

As for the Neanderthal angle - my understanding was that the mixing was mostly in the Iberian peninsula - specifically Portuguese people.

Neanderthals 'bred with early humans'

Friday, 7 May 2010

Scientists discover genes from primitive species in 21st-century DNA

Neanderthal man interbred with the first anatomically modern humans to migrate out of Africa, according to a pioneering study showing that there was a flow of genetic material between early Homo sapiens and our extinct cousins.


Scientists had dismissed the idea that Neanderthalers could have had children with our early ancestors, but a study of the Neanderthal genome, derived from analysing 40,000-year-old fossilised bones, has produced the most convincing evidence to date of limited interbreeding.

The findings suggest that although there was "gene flow" from Neanderthalers to H. sapiens, there was no evidence of any genetic exchange in the opposite direction – suggesting that the resulting children were raised by modern humans. Interbreeding was more likely between Neanderthalers and H. sapiens women.

More: [link to www.independent.co.uk]

why does everything have to be so black and white?

why can't we accept that our ancestors were dirty bastards, who'd hump anything that walked, and that we all on this planet are mutts, all related to each other?

+1

I guess that people like to think of themselves as different and special.

From all the North of Spain. Irish people are very like where I live: Galicia

Interesting. would like to visit there sometime and see if that's true.


Galicia is known in Spain as the "land of the 1000 rivers". Those rivers cross all the region from the mountainous inland to the coast, where they form the characteristical "Rias". The coast itself offers great contrasts, from the smooth beaches of As Mariñas to the dangerous cliffs of Costa de la Muerte, the "coast of death".

The climate of Galicia is tempered, and specially in winter, with minimal temperatures of about 5 degC, quite rainy. During the summer season, maximum temperatures are around 20 degC. Galicia's richdom in water and its Rias are characteristical for its nature. At the area of Rias Altas you will find magnific beaches, impressive towns and beautiful fishing villages. Rías Baixas are worth a visit for their natural preserves and balnearies, as A Toxa. The inland shows green landscapes and romantic villages.

The first cultures which left their tracks in Galicia were Celtic, while Romans left as a legacy the walls of Lugo, the bridge of Ourense, and the Tower of Hercules. Middle Ages were marked by the discovery of the tomb of the Apostle Santiago (Saint James). Thousands of pilgrims made their way to the cathedral of the newly founded town Santiago de Compostela, and the world-famous Way of Santiago (also known as Way of Saint James or Camino Jacobeo), which is flanked with numerous churches, monasteries and chapels of high historical-artistical value, was formed.

Galicia's folklore clearly shows its Celtic and Gaelic origins, and the most characteristical musical instrument is the Gaita (bagpipe). Regional gastronomy is of great reputation for its excellent fish, Empanada Gallega (a typical pie of fish or meat), traditional sweets prepared in some monasteries (where the recipes are kept in secret jalously), and the Ribeiro wine.
[link to www.red2000.com]

The Sons are Miles or Milesians that invaded Ireland were said to come from Spain. It helps explain dark Irish. The mythology/history of Ireland records many invasions and die-outs by different peoples.

Why so many Neanderthals in Basildon....so fuckibg many of the fucked up wrongen cunts in electric lazy fat bastard scooters dribbling...gurning..why why..look at them ..just look at them...

Ancient Brits and Egyptians share a common origin.

Again they make a mistake. people went to the basque area DURINg the ice age FROM the other areas to escape the ice age. After the ice age the people returned to where they had come from.

Big difference - also apparent to africa we didnt come from africa we went HOME FROM africa.

meaning we there before the ice age which forced us out.

BRYTHONIC not basque celtic or otherwise. BRYTHONIC --- FRECKLES blue eyes.

read this several times over the years. the logic is filled with holes for those who care to dig into it. therefore:

Oppenheimer now there is a name you can trust to bring you truth about white people.

Oppenheimer's data, from the same people who brought you the global warming hoax and Afirmative-Action.

I wouldn't waste one ounce of effort beleiving anything anyone named Oppenheimer wrote.

And how many of his relitives does he claim died in death camps? Yeah....

I am so glad my ancestry is N. Euro.

Just don't try to tell me I have any Negro blood!

Nice and white, whoever they were/are (N. Euros).

But then again, look how white I am!

Thanks, Euros! Mighty white of you!

Do you have any scientific evidence to back that claim?

I think most of these ideas are wrong. The Jews typically say that Arabs are Neanderthals. Now they are saying that redheads are Neanderthals. Skin and hair color are minor genes. So, it is insane to posit Neaderthal ancestors.
I know that the Basques are isolated genetically and that the British men are 80% Iraqi farmers from a mirgration 10,000 years ago. Before that, all homo sapiens came from Africa.

I hate to break it to the readers of this thread, but most of the ancient peoples who inhabited Britain were Negro tribes, including the Celts.

Whites appeared for the main part, very late in the day.

Kinda hard to gauge your whiteness posting as an AC.

This article is so full of presumptions and opinions that it is hard to believe it comes from scientific research.

Research leader Dr. Rosalind Harding said: "It is certainly possible that red hair comes from the Neanderthals."

Possible? What does that prove?

They had a basic, guttural vocabulary of about 70 words, probably at the level of today's two-year-old, and they never developed a full language, art or culture.

We simply do not know enough about the Neanderthals to credit any of these statements as being valid

our forefathers, Cro-Magnon Man - emerged from Africa and the two species co-existed for 10,000 years. Dr Harding's research - presented at a London conference of the Human Genome Organization during the week - suggests the two species interbred for the ginger gene to survive.

Did they test to show that Cro-Magnon didn't already have the gene?

They used a computer to calculate how long it must have taken for the mutation responsible for the ginger hair to have passed down through the generations and become so common among Western people.

Unfortunately computer simulations are only as good as the assumptions they are based on, and being based on assumptions are therefore not PROOF of anything

But they became extinct about 28,000 years ago, outwitted for territory and food by the more socially advanced Cro-Magnons.

Once again this is simply an assumption pretending to be a fact as we have no idea what really happened to them.

I find it offensive when assumptions and speculation such as this are presented to us as meaningful scientific research. I hope the British taxpayer is not footing the bill for this rubbish.