ATTENTION all FEMALES there is a SALE on SHOES...and Please Read this Thread

Like I said earlier there are things the every lady in my family do they ... never go out without their hair and makeup done and a sidearm ... feminine but not submissive.

Last Edited by Nikki_LaVey on 07/28/2010 10:50 PM

Yea but sometimes being submissive is good, is it not?

As a woman, I agree with you whole heartedly. The problem is we are expected to be tough and mean. We are expected to be bitches. My husband expects me to behave like a man. I have never wanted to or been able to. I wear his clothes because I have no money. I don't buy things for myself. I don't take the time to be feminine because he doesn't want me to be a "tramp". A little lip gloss does not a tramp make. I prefer skirts and baking. He prefers me in jeans and mowing the lawn. You guys don't get it both ways and neither do we. Figure out what you want. Take the leadership position without becoming abusive dictators.
We all need to learn to fullfill our gender roles. But first we need to figure out what they are.

Well, aside from the major 'generalizing' you posted above, I am talking about females who try to 'steer' the ship when there is no need to. They simply are reacting based off of what they are being fed from the soap operas, movies, and chick magazines. Imagine driving a car with a friend and the friend insists on trying to 'steer' the car while your the driver. You cannot have 'two' drivers. Someone has to yield somewhere or you end up in a wreck. Ever wonder why divorce rates are so high? Reread my post and not just a couple sentences please.

I am not stuck in the past, unlike what I see of the unnaturally masculine women and unnaturally effeminate men. They always dig into the past to try to justify the damage they are doing now to homes and families.

Self-esteem is not gained from the outside, but from the inside. The women's liberation movement was a move by the elite to start destroying families by pitting women against men in the job market, which they knew would affect the homes. They gained this knowledge from doing the same to blacks during slavery. Research it. Same 'black vs white' trick.

The false 'Masculine Independence' is everywhere. Watch a movie, tv show, pick up one of those girly magizines: the majority of them are parading this ignorance.

Please reread my post, it appears as though you read the first couple of sentences and responded before finishing. What your talking about has nothing to do with what I addressed. What is happening now is tearing families apart and has alot of single women wandering the world claiming they are masculine and trying to get their 'groove' back while the children are left baffled and confused.

It sounds like you and your husband have some personal issues specific to your marriage that need to be worked out as all men are not like this nor do they expect their women to act as your husbands requires you to.

I've been in relationships before where the man tries to assert some sort of dominance and it never works however I have learned that there is give and take and this comes down to respecting your partner not "listening to them and doing what you're told"

If my husband or boyfriend is out working all day and I'm home then based off his hard work and dedication to our life that would be enough for me to WANT him to have his dinner nearly ready when he gets home and a serene environment so he can unwind. This has nothing to do with being feminine or masculine and it sounds like you and your husband need to talk.

Men need to be more masculine in many ways, starting with getting off the freaking computer with the porn addiction and desensitization. Women are not sex objects. Most men are so porn-brainwashed that they don't even know how to make love to a woman, have a real connection and intimacy. It's all about talking dirty and doing hardcore things.

Most women would love a man who stays away from unhealthy things and treats his woman with respect. I call B.S. on your whole theory OP because I know women like you described and they all got taken for granted and eventually tossed out like an old shoe.

You want a good man or woman, look for someone who was raised well and has a big heart. Those of us who were not raised so well but have a big heart are not beyond redemption. We just need a bit more reassurance. No one is perfect. How women are today is a reflection of how men are today, and both are a reflection of modern society. Sadly, it is not a pretty picture and will only get uglier.

Bingo!

That's because those women were not dating the RIGHT guys.

They are out there...but very hard to find.

Takes a long time...be patient.

That was cute Jenna :)

I'll be submissive in bed for the right person.

There is also a difference between being dominate and being an asshole.

I like the way you think

Wow. That is awesome.

As a developing she-male, I have to weigh in on this one.

All my life, I have been envious of women because they are so obviously happier than men. Their higher estrogen levels certainly help because they (me too now!) experience emotions more intensely. They also have more freedom and an obligation as mothers and future mothers towards self interest. Men have more expectations to live up to because they have an obligation to self-sacrifice for the good of their family and community.

As a man I love women for their freedom, so I usually let them lead in all decisions except ones where matters of safety and security where I assert that it is the male role to lead.

I think that you should love women for their freedom of thought where ever it takes them. Don't pile up expectations of "femininity" on them because you have expectations of "masculinity" on yourself.

As you said in one post, OP, we all have a masculine and feminine side and there are times when we have to call on our opposite side.

That's harder for men to do, because they can't surrender and being feminine includes that option. When you learn to think like a female, all options are open to you.

I was in a serious gun showdown once. It was my last day in the Israeli army. A group of officers had decided to frame me for spying. I was in a room facing three of them, who were demanding my confession. I had just spent 2 and a half years fighting all challengers and now I was looking at 20 years in an Israeli jail doing the same thing.

Then my she-male self took over and I saw that surrender was a valid option. I could spend 20 years in prison being somebody's bitch and enjoying it.

Once I realised that surrender is always an option, I realised that I could choose who I surrendered to (the top dog is always best). Surrendering to the MPs for a triple manslaughter looked better than Field Security on a spy rap.

I stood up, levelled my gun at them with a crazy look in my eyes, told them not to fuck with me, because I would only surrender to the Military Police. Then I backed out the door, a free man once more.

I scared them so bad, they never did call the MPs.

It pays to be able to access both sides of gender. I say, let people be as masculine or feminine as they want to be at all times or any given situations.

That was a interesting story. You probably have more perspective this subject than anybody.

I agree. People should be how they want to be without being told they're acting like the wrong sex.

OP,I don't have a thing for shoes. Does that make me masculine in your eyes?

Nice thread, Open Your Eyes, and thank you for the reminder.

When a woman is in a situation either by circumstance or choice, to perform roles typically thought to be masculine, we sometimes neglect the role that was once so comfortable.

It takes a stronger woman to let a man be a man, than to compete for the position. It's unflattering and demeaning to both sexes, to compete with the other.

Once again, thanks for the reminder.

No it just means that I have to return the Birthday present that I got you.

It is getting harder and harder for women to take the advice that you just shared (as you can tell by the posts that were dripping with venom directed towards me)

I was just trying to point out the unspoken obvious truth.

I love the following passage by you and I am going to quote it again:


"It takes a stronger woman to let a man be a man, than to compete for the position. It's unflattering and demeaning to both sexes, to compete with the other."

Last Edited by Open Your Eyes on 07/29/2010 12:19 AM

+1000

-1000

You name is Ice Princess for crying out loud.

How are we supposed to take your opinion seriously?

What a stupid hypocrite you are.

Women should be women, and they should be all feminine and what-the-fuck-ever... but yet you sit there and pompously proclaim that you would 'beat me' in a 'logical debate' about RELATIONSHIPS.

You cannot beat me in a LOGICAL debate about RELATIONSHIPS because men's logic is facts and figures NOT RELATIONSHIPS. Men deal in absolutes, and relationships aren't absolutes.

Men do not HAVE relationship logic. This is why they are so incredibly shitty at relationships.

This is why they think that oppressing women and taking away their rights is "just the NATURAL way of things." This is why they think that any woman who doesn't agree with them is "competing" and should agree just so he can FEEL LIKE A MAN.

Some of the shit you say is so incredibly stupid, from a RELATIONSHIP standpoint, that it boggles the mind.

Compete with the man? For WHAT? What the fuck exactly am I competing with you FOR?

What's my prize if I "win" this "competition"?

Give me a break.

Half the fucking reason why so many men on this board run around screaming like babies about how "crazy" women are, is because they have ZERO relationship logic AT ALL!

A woman comes to her man crying and upset. He wants to logic her out of her upset. He wants to "fix the problem" and then go have a beer.

That's the whole fucking problem with men, and why men really shouldn't go around telling women how to be in relationships. Because THAT is a man's idea of a "logical" relationship.

"Oh, you're upset? Well, that's stupid. There's no logical reason to be upset by that." That's a man's idea of how to act in a relationship. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Callous, uncaring, compassionless, and absurd.

Great one you are to talk about how women should be women... AND THEN YOU DEMAND MALE LOGIC FROM THEM!

Make up your fucking mind.

So what are ways men can show respect for women then?

Not calling women names/bashing other women in front of them like calling a woman a slut because they are wearing makeup or a dress.
Not flirting with the opposite sex if you are with someone(male or female) -flirting means you are interested in the other person as a female/male, that the one you are with is not the most important at the time, and it also can be a sign of insecurity/needing an ego boost.
Being interested in them -this includes learning or being with them for things that they enjoy and not bashing those things.

Any other ideas?

I think your response speaks for itself.

I never said how crazy women are... you are doing a good enough job showing that to people yourself.

Last Edited by Open Your Eyes on 07/29/2010 12:44 AM

Hey Sandi_T this is a REAL woman's response above.

Please read what she wrote and take notes.

She is smart, not defensive, but still hold her opinion...and a good opinion at that.

Last Edited by Open Your Eyes on 07/29/2010 12:41 AM

Valuing feminine logic and intuition.

Being grateful for what the woman does, and recognizing it as WORK.

Valuing what she does as being at minimum equal to his own work. Valuing it as much as if she were getting paid for it. (In fact, sitting down and writing up how much it would cost in child care, maid service, laundry service, and a cook is a good way for him to begin to REALLY recognize the value of what his wife does)

Appreciating that women need conversation, and not belittling her for "talking too much." It's important for men to realize that, while he's socializing all day (usually unwillingly) at work, his very social other half is at home alone or with only "the wheels on the bus" for company.

Recognizing that even wives and mothers sometimes need time to just be herself. To not have the pressures of everyone else's needs on her. To sit in a bubble bath without hearing daddy and kids having a "we need mommy" meltdown two doors away.

Acceptance of her need for a pretty home and pretty clothes. Women like to feel pretty-- and he can either help with that, or make it awful. Acting like her getting a new dress is a terrible financial burden, while then buying a Playstation (true story of one of the couples I was helping) a day later that is six times more expensive... is just not quite the thing.

Valuing her opinion particularly on matters of children and home, and being willing to let her make those decisions is very empowering.

Why didn't you give me this response before..this is Good!

Last Edited by Open Your Eyes on 07/29/2010 12:45 AM

My name is Aalia.

Yes, her own opinion is great.

As LONG AS it agrees with yours.

Oh,

I thought it was Jenna.

My mistake.