| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170 | Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans?
| tiger, late as usual
User ID: 18436
7/13/2005 6:36 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
please excuse the lateness of this post
earlier,
vincent was considerate to add the lines
to the i ching hexagrams a ways back
it was a pretty obscure reading so i
let it stand like that just to bump this thread.
he asked what my question had been or
whether it was just a reading of the moment.
my question always the same, what do
i need to know right now, and so usually
interpret the reply as a reading of the
moment, yep.
i was thinking about this thread though
the hexagrams were fairly subtle enough for me
to go away for awhile and think about them,
since the lines didnt have ´dragons fighting
in the meadow´ (!) or something obvious like that.
another reason i didnt post more
was something wilhelm-baynes added to the image
"...he does not allow himself to be tempted
by dazzling offers to take part in public
activities."
erp
i figured that meant me for sure. cos i am
truly dazzled by this thread and the idea of
being able to say more.
but then i got all hung up on remembering the
good things about larks, and how when some
of us were on the cass list about the time
vincent was there too it was really an
intriguing place to be.
so i started getting very sad
that the original promise didnt work out.
one thing i haven´t seen too much
of on the mind control program kid survivor
pages or ufo cult escapee sites is the part about
how long it takes to get over the true sense
of grief.
anyway. here´s a nice appended judgment from
the second section of the i ching
"Fu Hsi made knotted cords and used them for
nets and baskets in hunting and fishing. He probably took this from the hexagram of
The Clinging."
then wilhelm-baynes says
This hexagram, divided within and closed without, is an image of the meshes of a net
in which animals remain snared.
that´s for sure...
anyway thanks to vincent for showing up here,
it´s been a while, good to see you. |
| chandra battershell
User ID: 16227
7/13/2005 7:25 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
Dave Lindquist
698 Harvest Hills Drive NE
Calgary, AB
T3K 4N6
Phone – 1 403 284 5388
Email – dave@dlindquist.com
I don´t care how nice of a guy he is. He is an accomplice to a felony. Unless he can come on this forum and explain his behavior.
Why didn´t he quit when he saw that Laura Knight jadczyk was lying about the House Raffle?
Why did he allow slander and defamation to go on and on on a site for which he was the provider?
Why does he continue to be the web provider to these felonius psychopaths? |
| Anders (BBM)
User ID: 18309
7/13/2005 8:29 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
TOM CRUISE ´NOT WELCOME´ IN PARIS
Like many other European governments, the French authorities view Scientology - founded in the United States in 1954 by science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard - as a dangerous cult.
Cruise was described as a "sect-symbol" by a Socialist deputy.
---------------------------------------
Cruise ´not welcome´ in Paris
From correspondents in Paris
THE Paris city hall has pledged not to make US actor Tom Cruise an honorary citizen - because of his membership of the Church of Scientology.
In a debate late yesterday, the Socialist-controlled municipal assembly approved a resolution "never to welcome the actor Tom Cruise, spokesman for Scientology and self-declared militant for this organisation".
Last month on a promotional tour for his film War of the Worlds, the 43-year-old star chose the Eiffel Tower to propose to girlfriend Katie Holmes. He was also made an honorary citizen of the southern French city of Marseille.
Like many other European governments, the French authorities view Scientology - founded in the United States in 1954 by science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard - as a dangerous cult.
Cruise was described as a "sect-symbol" by a Socialist deputy. |
| Anders (BBM)
User ID: 18309
7/13/2005 8:38 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
The sign of a cult is that it instructs the members in their method and there is no choice available in interpretation. |
| Vincent Bridges
User ID: 18475
7/13/2005 9:26 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
he asked what my question had been or
whether it was just a reading of the moment.
my question always the same, what do
i need to know right now, and so usually
interpret the reply as a reading of the
moment, yep.
i was thinking about this thread though
V: Hi Tiger, thanks for adding this component. It helps make the reading more vital, although it seems to be accurate enough for an ancient oracle...
the hexagrams were fairly subtle enough for me
to go away for awhile and think about them,
since the lines didnt have ´dragons fighting
in the meadow´ (!) or something obvious like that.
another reason i didnt post more
was something wilhelm-baynes added to the image
"...he does not allow himself to be tempted
by dazzling offers to take part in public
activities."
erp
i figured that meant me for sure. cos i am
truly dazzled by this thread and the idea of
being able to say more.
but then i got all hung up on remembering the
good things about larks, and how when some
of us were on the cass list about the time
vincent was there too it was really an
intriguing place to be.
so i started getting very sad
that the original promise didnt work out.
one thing i haven´t seen too much
of on the mind control program kid survivor
pages or ufo cult escapee sites is the part about
how long it takes to get over the true sense
of grief.
V: Indeed, I found this the strangest part of the whole experience. Even though LKJ and company were obviously out to destroy me big time, I had this overwhelming sense of grief and loss. We worked on some of this emotional residue at Matrioshka and on other lists, but that sense of wanting the approval of the person screwing you over is a very strange to experience.
anyway. here´s a nice appended judgment from
the second section of the i ching
"Fu Hsi made knotted cords and used them for
nets and baskets in hunting and fishing. He probably took this from the hexagram of
The Clinging."
then wilhelm-baynes says
This hexagram, divided within and closed without, is an image of the meshes of a net
in which animals remain snared.
that´s for sure...
V: The Clinging, the double trigram Light - Light, Li - Li, is a very profound symbol. "Doubled clarity, clinging to what is right, transforms the world and perfects it."
So, let me try to express what this reading means to me in this context:
Judgement:
Standstill. Evil people do not further
the perserverance of the superior man.
the great departs; the small approaches.
V: To me, this sums up the moment, both in terms of the C-cult, and in terms of the larger wolrd picture. Evil people, such as LKJ and BushCo, are no help at all in hanging tough on the basic issues of compassion and growth, The great, ideas, plans, intensity, has gone; and only the small minded remained, the Presdient who can´t talk straight, and the channeller who can´t see her own obsessions and illness. Things are at standstill for sure...
Image:
Heaven and earth do not unite:
the image of standstill.
Thus the superior man falls back upon his inner worth
in order to escape the difficulties.
He does not permit himself to be honored with revenue.
V: This is a key point, as you noted tiger. The superior person hangs tough, assesses their true inner worth, shown by their friends, loved ones, students, etc. They do not try to engage the public as one who has all the answers, and they don´t try to use their insight to scam people, or try to get rich. This, unfortunately, is exactly what LKJ has done...
Lines one, three and five:
Six at the beginning means:
When ribbon grass is pulled up, the sod comes with it.
Each according to his kind.
Perserverance brings good fortune and success.
V: When the roots are shown, the sources of the grass, then we see that each of us has is own perspective on what has transpired. Seems like what we are doing here...
Six in the third place:
They bear shame
V: No shit...
Nine in the fifth place:
Standstill is giving way.
Good fortune for the great man;
"What if it should fail, what if it should fail?"
In this way he ties it to a cluster of mulberry shoots.
V: The solution is found in community, the mulberry shoots which grow in a clump. The "what if it should fail" here seems to refer to honesty and warnings concerning the "shame" of the previous moving line.
Changing to hexagram 30:
Judgement:
The Clinging: Perserverance furthers.
It brings success.
Care of the cow brings good fortune.
Image:
That which is bright rises twice:
the image of fire.
Thus the great man, by perpetuating this brightness,
illumines the four quarters of the world.
V: Ok, I could write a book on this hexagram, but here it means be true to the Light, and the darkness, inside and out, will fall away... All one can do is tend the light and hope for the best...
Or so I see it, to quote Darth Ark...
VB |
| OPie
User ID: 3039
7/13/2005 9:40 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
Hi, Chandra, glad you´re still following the thread -- LOL -- I just typed "threat" instead of thread. Talk about your basic Freudian slips.
I think what Not Stupid was trying to point out is that it will do absolutely no good to contact Dave. He´s in the group. And to sort of borrow from Anders, it would be like trying to convince Tom Cruise that psychiatrists are the saviors of mankind and that Prozac has saved lives. It ain´t gonna happen.
I can´t speak for Dave, of course, but I can theorize about his mindset based upon my own when I was there. He doesn´t believe you. Or me. Or Vincent. Or Anders. Or Tiger. Or Not Stupid. Or anyone who says anything against Laura or Ark. So, in his mind, he´s doing nothing wrong. In fact, he´s being attacked for doing what he fully believes is right -- trying to show people what the truth of this world is. He probably truly has the best interests of humanity at heart and desperately wants people to wake up before it´s too late. His intentions, from his viewpoint, are absolutely of the highest caliber.
Keep in mind that if you met the members of the C-list (well, most of them), you´d really like them. For the most part, they´re extremely intelligent (yes, they are), humorous, thoughtful, compassionate, and they care about the world. They are exactly the type of people you´d want to have as friends. But they have spent their entire lives feeling like they don´t belong on this earth, that they don´t really fit in anywhere, and, because of this, have felt very alienated for most of their lives. Additionally, they have had more than the usual share of bizarre stuff happening in their lives, yet they´ve managed to perserve and even to thrive. For me, to find a group that shared my bizarre beliefs and experiences was a godsend. The only other group that I know of like this are those who post on the board at Unknowncountry.com (Whitley Strieber´s website). The difference is that Whitley lets people criticize him without kicking them off the board. But my point is that to let go of the only group of people you´ve ever felt comfortable with takes tremendous willpower. And as Tiger pointed out earlier, the grief, the loss, goes on for years.
So you´re not going to affect Dave with any sort of appeal; he truly believes we are all wrong. The best thing to do is what Vincent has said -- write to the authorities and try to handle it through legal channels. Give those channels whatever information you have.
The other thing I´d like to mention is that I personally won´t have anything to do with contacting Dave as webmaster (or whatever he is)and threatening him because of what Laura and Ark have done. This is C group tactics. One of the reasons I left the group was because of their tactics in contacting webmasters, employers, etc.,and threatening legal action regardless of whether it stood up to legal scrutiny. I have absolutely no doubt that the current owner of GLP has been contacted by Laura, Ark, or somebody and been threatened with legal action. I hope he or she stands up to it, because the threats are baseless.
Sorry to go on so long. |
| Vincent Bridges
User ID: 18475
7/13/2005 9:58 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
I think what Not Stupid was trying to point out is that it will do absolutely no good to contact Dave. He´s in the group. And to sort of borrow from Anders, it would be like trying to convince Tom Cruise that psychiatrists are the saviors of mankind and that Prozac has saved lives. It ain´t gonna happen.
V: I agree with OPie here... Dave is already on our list of folks involved, and I´m sure he has already heard from LKJ about the various conspiracies afoot...
I can´t speak for Dave, of course, but I can theorize about his mindset based upon my own when I was there. He doesn´t believe you. Or me. Or Vincent. Or Anders. Or Tiger. Or Not Stupid. Or anyone who says anything against Laura or Ark. So, in his mind, he´s doing nothing wrong. In fact, he´s being attacked for doing what he fully believes is right -- trying to show people what the truth of this world is. He probably truly has the best interests of humanity at heart and desperately wants people to wake up before it´s too late. His intentions, from his viewpoint, are absolutely of the highest caliber.
Keep in mind that if you met the members of the C-list (well, most of them), you´d really like them. For the most part, they´re extremely intelligent (yes, they are), humorous, thoughtful, compassionate, and they care about the world. They are exactly the type of people you´d want to have as friends. But they have spent their entire lives feeling like they don´t belong on this earth, that they don´t really fit in anywhere, and, because of this, have felt very alienated for most of their lives. Additionally, they have had more than the usual share of bizarre stuff happening in their lives, yet they´ve managed to perserve and even to thrive. For me, to find a group that shared my bizarre beliefs and experiences was a godsend. The only other group that I know of like this are those who post on the board at Unknowncountry.com (Whitley Strieber´s website). The difference is that Whitley lets people criticize him without kicking them off the board. But my point is that to let go of the only group of people you´ve ever felt comfortable with takes tremendous willpower. And as Tiger pointed out earlier, the grief, the loss, goes on for years.
V: Yep, that´s what so sad, tragic even, in the C-cult world view. Good folks, who simply want some answers, get sucked in and literally destroyed. It is perhaps the main thing that pisses me off and keeps me going with this thing. Nobody deserves to go through what some of us here have gone through, and everytime LKJ posts photos of her grand life style in France it makes me want to puke...
So you´re not going to affect Dave with any sort of appeal; he truly believes we are all wrong. The best thing to do is what Vincent has said -- write to the authorities and try to handle it through legal channels. Give those channels whatever information you have.
V: Yep... And Chandra, and Dusty, please report your experience at last years conference to the local authorities.
The other thing I´d like to mention is that I personally won´t have anything to do with contacting Dave as webmaster (or whatever he is)and threatening him because of what Laura and Ark have done. This is C group tactics. One of the reasons I left the group was because of their tactics in contacting webmasters, employers, etc.,and threatening legal action regardless of whether it stood up to legal scrutiny. I have absolutely no doubt that the current owner of GLP has been contacted by Laura, Ark, or somebody and been threatened with legal action. I hope he or she stands up to it, because the threats are baseless.
V: I agree here completely. Dave knows the deal, and he won´t be swayed by us... OP´s...LOL!
VB |
| tiger
User ID: 18436
7/13/2005 10:42 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
thanks to vincent, for reading the
book of changes, and to opie
i think you both said it all real well.
from the commentaries on Li
"How can one wish to hold for long
the light of the setting sun?" |
| StormBear
User ID: 9894
7/13/2005 10:44 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
The thing that has always struck me is that I think Fred was the real channel. If you have the chance (and gobs of time) to read the unedited transcripts, you can kinda see a higher quality of message when Fred is involved. When he is not, it tends to drift into Florida lottery numbers and other items of cosmic unimportance. When Fred left, the transcripts began to become jumbled, confused and wandering.
What is everyone else´s feelings on this? |
| Vincent Bridges
User ID: 18475
7/13/2005 11:06 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
Yep, there´s no doubt that the C sessions with Fred on the planchette with LKJ produced some fascinating material. And for sure Fred was the "real" channel and psychic, not Laura.
However, other than Fred and Ark, I´m the only other person to have channelled the Cs with Laura. And those session, even though I am Dr. Evil in their mythos, provides the rationale behind their moving to France and the appropriation of my work on Fulcanelli.
A member of CassChat sent me a piece a few weeks ago where Laura was going over those same sessions and remarking how little I understood then, and how much they understand now. Somehow, no one on the list would comment that putting so much stock in the channelling of Dr. Evil and Laura was strange at all...
Stormy, in his Golem legends, has touched on the archetype of the Destroyer, of which LKJ is the classic example...
VB |
| tiger
User ID: 18514
7/14/2005 12:18 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
stormy brot up interesting point
the transcripts seem to be divided into
three or four acts, like an opera
first act was influence of fred
responses from c´s were terse, somewhat
mysterious, stylistically diffrent from
act two with influence of ark
some of the answers were, well, lost in translation
then act three of laura in the future
man, these are hard to read, many words
in the replies, v many
first couple acts, not so much words
the stuff afterwards the contact had
clearly been lost and the author seemed
to be wingin it
reminded me of marciniac
some of the early stuff, like this long
transcript i saw of a meeting in palo alto
i think they hired an auditorium at stanford
for this one, maybe 1990
some fairly fascinating stuff
same with bringers of the don, kinda cool
book, then later books, no content
seems like u can get a clear chanel for one
brief configuration of time and place and
those present
and then whammo
is just like the sufis said,
cant bring back the thirteenth century no matter
how much u wd like to... |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18514
7/14/2005 12:21 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
p.s.
need a link, stormy work on golem ? |
| Anders (BBM)
User ID: 18520
7/14/2005 1:04 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
The thing that has always struck me is that I think Fred was the real channel. If you have the chance (and gobs of time) to read the unedited transcripts, you can kinda see a higher quality of message when Fred is involved. When he is not, it tends to drift into Florida lottery numbers and other items of cosmic unimportance. When Fred left, the transcripts began to become jumbled, confused and wandering.
I agree with Stormy and have been saying this for ages to my buds. And I have a huge beef with Laura about her alleged STO principals - if we take it as a given that the early C´s (as opposed to the Jinns that took over when Ark arrived, pretending to be the originals (as is their way - with Laura witting or unwitting I´ll leave you to judge) were STO and made contact in order to teach and ´spread the word´ as it were - where the heck does Laura get off on ripping Fred off over copyright!!!
Personally I find copyright issues tacky in these circumstances, but that´s just me.
The whole POINT about a GIFT such as this, as any true psychic or healer will tell you, is that YOU NEVER CHARGE MONEY or the gift, the cure, the charm ->>> WILL VAMOOSE!
And that is EXACTLY what happened.
There is a BIG difference in accepting help (just to cover expenses) from strangers for the gift, and that which the C group morphed into when Ark arrived - the whole charade became a money-making fishing expedition and as others have noted a means to bail to sunny and cheap France to milk the brand, the franchise, until Kingdom Come.
The early Cs said all along to spread the word, network, ideally in small groups, 7 optimum was I believe mentioned, to use the internet and to use books and writing as a method of getting the word out.
Well of course that happened initially, until cold war uber-spook and Soros plant Ark arrived. And BTW do some digging on Soros!!!
C dupes helped Laura to get her atrocious writing into shape - others gave help in getting the work to market at a reasonable price. But then of course once Fred was shafted delusions of grandeur took over and the old dollar signs started ker-chinging in Laura´s eyeballs and everything went to hell in no time at all - with books not getting finished, publishing contracts broken, unhappy pre-order customers left high and dry...
There´s no getting away from that fact - those of us around when Ark did arrive can see the difference in the whole C vibe from the transcripts right through to the STS nature of the list once the oaf started ´moderating´...
It makes me laugh when Laura threatens to sue all the time if people dare to actually quote the Cs and try and get the GOOD information out there - of course that unconscionable attitude is NOT STO, which is why the early and IMHO legit Cs bailed. |
| Anders (BBM)
User ID: 10129
7/14/2005 5:01 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
What is the French anti-cult law?
The law has two key aspects.
It adapts a pre-existing section of the French criminal code, Section 223-15, which was designed for *goods*, and extends it to "the fraudulent abuse of ... a person in a state of psychological or physical subjection resulting from serious pressures exercised or repeated or from techniques likely to alter his judgment, leading ... this person to an act or an abstention which are seriously harmful to him".
In effect, it creates a new category of crime, referred in previous versions of this law as “mental manipulation”. The term itself has been removed, but the description amounts to the same thing.
The offence is punishable by a fine of up to $75,000 and five years imprisonment. Those found guilty of "brainwashing" also face a sort of civil death: they cannot exercise political, civil or family rights, work as professional or even sign checks for several years.
It allows courts to close down associations after one final decision against the group itself or its de facto leaders, finding them guilty of one among a number of criminal offences. The criminal offences include personal violence, illegal use of medicines or misleading publicity, but also relatively minor offences such as breach of privacy or using the likeness of a person without its consent. One final decision where a de facto leader of the group is declared guilty of one such offence is enough for the draconian remedy of banning the group.
Note that Section 223-15 which includes the disguised clause of "mental manipulation" above is among those Sections whose breach, when confirmed by a final decision against the group or its leaders, leads to the group’s ban.
Who is targeted by this law?
The law specifically refers to “cultic movements”. While no legal definition of what is exactly a “cultic movement” or even a “cult” exists, nor is any being provided, the target could be any group who is out of favor or unpopular. It is believed, however, that the primary target of the law would be groups included in the list of 172 religious groups identified as “cult” in the first report of the Parliamentary Committee to Investigate Cults in 1996. The list includes such groups as the Church of Scientology or the Unification Church, but also Hasidic Jews, Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah´s Witnesses, Quakers, and others.
When was the law passed?
The law approved by the French Assembly, the French Senate, and finally passed by the French House on Mayt 30, 2001.
Where can I find the original anti-cult law in English?
CESNUR has made a translation in English and is to be found here. Annotations by Massimo Introvigne highlight the key aspects.
Is the law a threat to religious freedom?
It definitely is. The argument of MPs is that the law does not targets beliefs of any kind, but only groups who use coercion, emotional pressure and mind-management techniques to indoctrinate individuals and enslave them to their cause. However, “coercion” here does not designate physical coercion (already covered by the normal law) but “mental coercion”, and the terminology used to make "mental coercion" a crime is vague at best and can be used to describe everything from marketing techniques to catechism classes.
As there is no definition of "cult" either, it means that at some point in the future any group or association that is out of favor or unpopular could be designated cult-like and the target of the anti-cult law, which would leave judges with a dangerous latitude to interpret what constitutes "serious prejudice" as basis of banning the movement. Leaving such terms as "cult," "dependence" and "pressure" undefined, the law could criminalize, for example, evangelism by deeming it an "exercise in serious and repeated pressure on a person in order to create or exploit a state of dependence".
Thus, Despite the justification of the French anti-cult professionals among MPs, the law strikes at the core of the freedom of conscience and association guaranteed by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the French "Déclaration des Droits de l´homme et du citoyen", the French Constitution, the principle of separation of Church and States, the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, and the Helsinki Final Act of 1975.
Is the anti-cult law supported by mainstream religions in France?
No. Since the About-Picard private bill against "groups of a cultic character" was adopted in first reading by the National Assembly, on June 22, 2000, the representatives of the great religions expressed, repeatedly, their anxieties about the dangers that this text would have for freedom of religion.
Shortly before its passage to the French House, the two main leaders of the Catholic and Protestants Churches of France, Cardinal Louis-Marie Cardinal Billé, President of the French Conference of Catholic Bishops, and Pastor Jean Arnold de Clermont, President of the Protestant Federation of France, protested the law in a letter sent to the French Prime Minister, Lionel Jospin.
On June 2000, Pope John Paul II also said when accepting the credential of a new French ambassador to the Vatican that discrimination against "one or other form of religious practice ... will necessarily create a climate of tension, intolerance, opposition and suspicion, not conducive to social peace."
Who else is opposing the anti-cult law?
Apart for the targeted groups, religious scholars, and representatives of mainstream religions, the anti-cult law has also been opposed by religious and civil rights activists such as the Institute on Religion and Public Policy, the European Center for Law and Justice, the International Center for Law and Religion Studies, the Aid to Church in Need, etc.
The US assistant secretary of state for human rights has spoken of Washington´s concern about the law’s "dangerously ambiguous" language, and 50 members of the Council of Europe´s parliamentary assembly called for the suspension of the law until the completion of a report on religious rights in France.
The French anti-cult law will probably be the focus of investigation by the Helsinki Commission in its meeting on July 2001, as Christopher Smith, the U.S. co-chairman of the Commission, was quoted as saying that "there is no question the anti-cult law flies in the face of the commitments agreed to in the Helsinki Final Act”, and that the law was “clearly in violation of an individual´s fundamental human right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion or belief".
Are there historical precedents?
The only historical precedent was article 603 of the Italian Penal Code. This provision, enacted under Mussolini, addressed what was called the “crime of plagio”. It consisted in the offence of "subjecting another person to one´s own power in a manner which reduces him to a total state of subjection". It carried a maximum penalty of fifteen years imprisonment.
On 28 November 1969, a lecturer in philosophy, Signor Also Brabanti, challenged in the Rome Appeal Court a sentence of nine years´ imprisonment for ´totally enslaving´ two young students (The Times, 29 November 1969). His conviction was upheld but the court reduced his sentence to five years; though at the time this was being written a further appeal was pending.
The law was declared unconstitutional in 1981 and stricken from the Criminal code by the Constitutional Court as being "imprecise, lacking coherence and liable to arbitrary application".
In the 1980’s, anti-cultists also came very close to pass “deprogramming laws”, which would allow parents, relatives, and deprogrammers to use Law Enforcement Agencies forces to forcibly seize and “deprogram” cult members. The law was nearly passed in the States of New York, Kansas, and New Jersey.
Where can I find online press articles about the French anti-cult law?
July 9, 2001 - Reuters - Paul Holmes
Congressman Assails French Law on Sects (link doesn´t work anymore)
June 12, 2001 - Globe and Mail, Toronto - Michael Valpy
Cult crackdown called extreme
June 04, 2000 - CNS News - Patrick Goodenough
French Anti-Sect Law: Christian Lawyers Prepare For Action
June 1, 2001 - The Guardian, London - Jon Henley
France arms itself with legal weapon to fight sects
May 31, 2001 - CNS News - Patrick Goodenough
French Christians Fear Ramifications Of Anti-Sect Law
May 31, 2001 - Irish Times
New anti-sect law adopted in France (link [link to beta.yellowbrix.com]
21178531&ID=newsreal&scategory=AP+Top+Headlines doesn´t work anymore)
May 29, 2001 - AFP
New French anti-sect law attacked as abuse of human rights
Where can I find documents and web pages related to the anti-cult law?
Documents:
Full text of the law
The full law, translated in English and commented by Massimo Introvigne
Religious Liberty in Transatlantic Perspective
This document delineates quite clearly the reasons for the opposition of the US to the law.
Discrimination on the Basis of Religion and Belief in Western Europe
Testimony of Dr. T. Jeremy Gunn before the House International Relations Committee U.S. House of Representatives
Freedom of conscience in France
Petition against the French anti-cult law
Web Pages:
The French Anti-Cult Law
This is my own page. It goes into more details than this FAQ.
CESNUR exhaustive page on the French Anti-cult Law
The main resource for independent and scholarly information about the French anti-cult law
France Cracking Down on Cults
About.com has made a concise and informative page about the anti-cult law
Religious Tolerance in France
The Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance is one of the main resources for religious tolerance topics on the net. This page is their summary of the situation in France. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 15718
7/14/2005 5:45 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
OP, Anders, etc. thank you for a fascinating thread...long-time overdue. I´ve thought for a while Laura might be a nutcase.
I´d like to ask Vincent, please, if it is true that he invokes evil entities or if he carries out any rituals devised by Crowley, at all?
Thank you. |
| Vincent Bridges
User ID: 10989
7/14/2005 8:04 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
I´d like to ask Vincent, please, if it is true that he invokes evil entities or if he carries out any rituals devised by Crowley, at all?
V: No, I do not invoke, or evoke, evil entities. I don´t practice Black Magick, am not a satanist, or any other of LKJ´s vicious misinterpretations. I have studied the western mystery tradition, extensively, and I am an initiate of various components of that tradition, including Ceremonial Magick and Wicca. I am also an initiate of various other traditions: an ordained non-denominational Hermetic Christian minister, Tibetan Buddhism (Nyngma-pa or Red Hat), and the Al Haggagi order of the Madyani Sufis of Luxor Egypt.
As for Crowley, or Uncle Al as some folks like to say, I have written on his work, mainly the Book of the Law and its connection to the Luxor Sufis, but I have never been a member of the OTO or any other Crowley-ite group. I have experimented with some of his ritual ideas, and have found some, such as the Liber Israfel, to be quite profound. The caveat here is that even Liber Israfel is full of pit-falls, ego traps and flat out mis-understandings. I put it in a Tibetan context, which straightened out much of its problems.
As for daily, personal practices, I´m mostly Tibetan, Medicine Buddha and Padmasambhava, these days.
Andy has mentioned the idea of the jinn several times, and without getting too weird over it, I do think this explains much about LKJ´s behavior...
VB |
| Vincent Bridges
User ID: 10989
7/14/2005 8:15 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
The law has two key aspects.
It adapts a pre-existing section of the French criminal code, Section 223-15, which was designed for *goods*, and extends it to "the fraudulent abuse of ... a person in a state of psychological or physical subjection resulting from serious pressures exercised or repeated or from techniques likely to alter his judgment, leading ... this person to an act or an abstention which are seriously harmful to him".
In effect, it creates a new category of crime, referred in previous versions of this law as “mental manipulation”. The term itself has been removed, but the description amounts to the same thing.
The offence is punishable by a fine of up to $75,000 and five years imprisonment. Those found guilty of "brainwashing" also face a sort of civil death: they cannot exercise political, civil or family rights, work as professional or even sign checks for several years.
It allows courts to close down associations after one final decision against the group itself or its de facto leaders, finding them guilty of one among a number of criminal offences. The criminal offences include personal violence, illegal use of medicines or misleading publicity, but also relatively minor offences such as breach of privacy or using the likeness of a person without its consent. One final decision where a de facto leader of the group is declared guilty of one such offence is enough for the draconian remedy of banning the group.
Note that Section 223-15 which includes the disguised clause of "mental manipulation" above is among those Sections whose breach, when confirmed by a final decision against the group or its leaders, leads to the group’s ban.
V: Thanks for posting this Andy... I´ve been looking for something like it in English, but yes, that´s exactly what I´m talking about.
All the French police need is one solid criminal action, along the lines of those you listed above, and they will move. Surely, with the tales we´ve exchanged just on this threads, we have enough to tip the scales. One person who sold everything, and gave it to C-cult and now feels brainwashed, or one person threatened into leaving their family, just one, who will file an official complaint with the prefecture in their town, and the police will move...
VB |
| Anders
User ID: 14157
7/14/2005 9:06 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
Your are welcome,
Here is the link to all the sub-links etc about French Anti-Cult Law
[link to bernie.cncfamily.com]
 |
| anders
User ID: 14157
7/14/2005 9:38 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
From: "wiolawa72" .luke gato had a sacred geometry conf..in denver in 98 and stan said he would sue the participants because of dan..[...] conference participants..ie michael heleus..etc....[...]well it wasnt till a little later that dan brought holt to my house.. and holt set up an assassination plot.. headed my way with drunvalo...then dan had [Maynerd] and his wife do a ritual with sekmet at bell rock in sedona. all nite and a crowley exericise in futility to the ophanim.... i didnt like that either..as they were using my timeshare.... [...] ron holt was drunvalos major jackass assistant.. and he is married to lyssssa royal.. yerka..was the czech.. who funded drunvalo.bought him a million $$$ house temple.whatever in prescott.. drug money king.. also funded hoagy... all that is a long story.... i got out of the assassination attempt thanx to dennis banks of aim.. police also trying to get drunvalo.. coca...etc..yes he is a snake....sedona is headquartersfor much nwo shit..solarcapstone.org.
At last we find the connection: Obviously, “yerka” “the czech who funded Drunvalo” is Jirka Rysavy, the Czech millionaire who is a CIA front man. Drunvalo is most definitely part of the so-called New Age COINTELPRO. Jirka was buddies with John Ramsay who, together with his wife, were accused by many of murdering their little girl JonBenet. Interesting that Bridges wrote a piece about this, an “apologia” for John Ramsay, pointing the finger at strange cults and ritual abuse. Now that’s a straw man if ever I saw one.
V: Note that this poor lady met me only once, briefly, while sharing her condo with Dan Winter. She is, frankly, even more crazy than LKJ. (Ask her about the ET giant Owls carved all over the southwest...)
That sounds like GLP´s very own WIO!!! Seems to mean well but crazy as a sack of rattlesssssssssnakesssssssss!!!! (WIO would get the joke!)
|
| Vincent Bridges
User ID: 10989
7/14/2005 10:02 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
Yep, that´s her...
VB |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9819
7/14/2005 10:32 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
Thanks, Vin. Are you still working with Dan Winter and could you re-post your website link again, please?  |
| tiger
User ID: 12069
7/14/2005 11:29 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
greetings to storm bear, thank you for your post on the experiences and dreams that led
to your work on the golem legends.
and for the link, all are most appreciated.
both stormy and vincent´s extraordinary
experiences and pursuits of knowledge or
illumination along extraordinary paths
are great illustrations of the kinds of
inquiries that were discouraged and even
forbidden when we were on the cass list.
this is solely my own interpretation
and impression of the cass doctrines,
i´m sure it´s completely subjective,
but
it was as if heaven and earth could not
unite in a time of standstill. no pagans,
no pantheists, no animal spirits, no earth
elementals, no abiding devotion to the land,
no roots, no trees, no Heart Sutra, ever
were appreciated in any way. everything
belonged to the sky gods. it seemed so nordic.
as if snow and ice and frozen air were the
abiding places of those spirits. who in turn forgot
the sensation of cold and, trapped in their
own glacial fastness, became the cold itself.
stormy´s visions and experiences in contrast
are filled with warmth and sweet earth and
the real heartbeat of the life force that
sustains this world. at the cass place in
that time when i was there i felt cut off
and separated from the literal roots of life
and the wisdom of the others who live beside
us on different scales, the birds, blossoms and bugs, the wisdom of the animals.
it was all too sapien-centric for me finally.
good fortune to you on your path storm. |
| p.s.
User ID: 12069
7/14/2005 11:45 AM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
vincent mentioned the red hats !
argh!
this reminds me !
this is just rumint, but
...someone posting as One Smart Rat
on the whitley list [she was banned
of course] said the red hat lamas
knew about Time Travel and theyd
been doing it for centuries
this is hard to find out about
unless you know where to look.
vincent or anyone know where
to look ?? |
| Delphine
User ID: 9425
7/14/2005 1:23 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
This is from someone I know who participated in the early group ouija board sessions with Laura, getting messages from the C´s. I had asked her to sum up what she had learned and how she felt about them and their teaching, and this is what she wrote. At her request, I am pasting it in here. Think it´s good to have another perspective on all this - Delphine
When I first read your question this Browning poem came into my thoughts, and nothing could be more precise as to how I feel about the Cs... well, except maybe for the last line, because in life or death or ascension I don´t think I could love them any more or any less. The rest of the poem exemplifies my feelings for/about them PERFECTLY. Some would maybe read this and roll their eyes, but I think you´ll understand, without scoffing at this as just a dramatization.
How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.
I love thee to the depth and breadth and height
My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight
For the ends of Being and ideal Grace.
I love thee to the level of everyday´s
Most quiet need, by sun and candle-light.
I love thee freely, as men strive for Right;
I love thee purely, as they turn from Praise.
I love thee with a passion put to use
In my old griefs, and with my childhood´s faith.
I love thee with a love I seemed to lose
With my lost saints, --- I love thee with the breath,
Smiles, tears, of all my life! --- and, if God choose,
I shall but love thee better after death.
Delphine, before I met the Cs I was totally in the dark, and then emerged to grow through their Light (knowledge)... on my own. I write "on my own" because they offered tools that enabled me to do this, if listened to them and exercised that opportunity. They didn´t tell us how to be, they offered insight as to how our lives could be enhanced through "our own" intention--owning our lives. What I feel is not worship, but rather a profound gratitude. My heart is full from listening to and learning from them. Laura too. I have deeply loved and cared for Laura, but unfortunately that love has been skewed and we have gone in different directions. She is indeed a powerful force, it´s too bad for all involved that she doesn´t have that force somewhat under control where the welfare of others is concerned. And because love is forever (I just can´t start hating a person I´ve truly loved, even if they´ve horribly slighted me), and also because I´m a wide open conduit of empathy, I actually feel deep sorrow and dread for what has transpired with her publicly. If I could take these troubles away I would, for her sake, even if they are the result of her own actions. My feelings about Laura are complicated... but not my feelings about the Cs.
And yes, I do take into account that it was channelled info, approx. 30% of it likely disinfo, but.... well, it was just special, especially in the beginning. Even when the material was difficult, even frightening--and Delphine it was, I paced the floor a lot in the mid to late 90´s, alone, my thoughts and body racked with anxiety as I thought about some of the harsh things they uncovered about our reality--even so, I felt a real sense of loving and kind support from them through it all. This loving and kind support I carry with me to this moment.
So, the most profound comment I can say about my time spent with the Cs is that I initially realized how much in the dark I was, and I then very actively began praying and requesting and intending that I become fully aware, that I would not be lost in the dark and ignorance forever. I have pushed and stretched my envelope (frequency resonance envelope, FRE ) with fervency. I have often been told by healers I´ve engaged that they´ve never met someone work as hard as I have to "get it". My point is, I have the Cs to thank for that drive, they alone sparked that alchemical fire within me. As far as I can tell, this, coupled with the natural processes of the universe, is what has brought me as far as I´ve come into the Light, from where I was in darkness... and undoubtedly, I have a long way to go, and still am going. Onward and upward, eh? ;~) Always onward and upward. |
| Vincent Bridges
User ID: 4052
7/14/2005 3:39 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
Thanks, Vin. Are you still working with Dan Winter and could you re-post your website link again, please?
V: Dan and I are still connected on the internet, but that´s about it. He still gives me credit for some things, but unfailingly he gives the most credence to my wildest stuff... Go figure...
My website is [link to www.vincentbridges.com]
The cassiopaean inormation site is [link to www.cassiopaeacult.com]
VB |
| OPie
User ID: 15321
7/14/2005 3:43 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
Delphine, I would actually more or less agree with your friend, and I think many ex-C members would. The problem is Laura (and Ark), not so much the C material. It´s Laura and Ark´s underhanded dealing with people, as well as what appear to be criminal and certainly unethical activities.
As far as the C´s go, the early material lit a fire under me, too. But somewhere along the line, something happened. The whole feeling of the sessions changed. Whoever or whatever the C´s were (and I personally always thought the us-in-the-future bit referred to humanity and not to Laura), something else came in and took over. Something cold and very mechanical. And, unfortunatley, the group followed suit.
Or so I think (!). |
| Vincent Bridges
User ID: 4052
7/14/2005 3:53 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
vincent mentioned the red hats !
argh!
this reminds me !
this is just rumint, but
...someone posting as One Smart Rat
on the whitley list [she was banned
of course] said the red hat lamas
knew about Time Travel and theyd
been doing it for centuries
this is hard to find out about
unless you know where to look.
vincent or anyone know where
to look ??
V: Whew, what a huge digression this could be... The Nyngma-pa, or Ancient Tradition Path of Tibetan Buddhism, known as Red Hats because their rivals, the orthodox lamas of Tibet, the Gelug-pa, wear Yellow Hats, do indeed have knowledge of what could be called Time Travel. So do most of the other sects since the Rimed unification, at least in terms of theory, but the Nyngma-pa have a long tradition of its practice.
Now, you are not going to find a spell book on Red Hat Time Travel, unless LKJ is reading this and decides to do one. Ain´t possible really. One must be able to do the practice, which is quite complex, and must have done the preliminary training in order to get it. Even then, there´s a trick to it...
A place to start is to do a google search on the Kalachakra Tantra and start reading. Kalachakra is sanskrit for time machine...
VB |
| Anders (BBM)
User ID: 5109
7/14/2005 3:57 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
What OPie said, 100%!
OSIT!!!
|
| Vincent Bridges
User ID: 4052
7/14/2005 3:57 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
it was as if heaven and earth could not
unite in a time of standstill. no pagans,
no pantheists, no animal spirits, no earth
elementals, no abiding devotion to the land,
no roots, no trees, no Heart Sutra, ever
were appreciated in any way. everything
belonged to the sky gods. it seemed so nordic.
as if snow and ice and frozen air were the
abiding places of those spirits. who in turn forgot
the sensation of cold and, trapped in their
own glacial fastness, became the cold itself.
stormy´s visions and experiences in contrast
are filled with warmth and sweet earth and
the real heartbeat of the life force that
sustains this world. at the cass place in
that time when i was there i felt cut off
and separated from the literal roots of life
and the wisdom of the others who live beside
us on different scales, the birds, blossoms and bugs, the wisdom of the animals.
V: Whoo, tiger, what a direct hit with this one... Thanks...
VB |
| OPie
User ID: 15321
7/14/2005 3:59 PM | | Re: Ok, enough about Nancy and the Zetas. What do you all know about Laura and the Cassiopaeans? | Quote |
Vincent (or anyone else), are you familiar with Anab Whitehouse? He´s a Sufi who has a website (and counseling service) to help people dealing with spiritual abuse (spiritual-abuse-recovery-assistance.org). He had the best article on the C´s and Laura that I´ve ever read. And he´s the one who originally suggested that the C´s may not be what they said they were but fit the jinns quite well. I had to go read up on the jinns, and what I read gave me the creeps. Anyway, he had a discussion board on his website, which I joined so I could learn more about Sufism. He mentioned on the board that he had been hounded by C members after the article went up and had never seen anything like it. The article is no longer there, and the discussion board has vanished as well. I don´t know what happened, as I didn´t check in as often as I should have.
He might have some information or input that could be helpful. Or it could be that he just wants to distance himself from the whole topic.
Storm Bear, I agree with tiger. Your golem story wasn´t weird at all; it was really quite beautiful. And tiger is right -- it wouldn´t have been tolerated. I suggested once that since humans are put together the way we are (you know, able to stand upright, with opposable thumbs, able to speak, etc.), it seemed obvious that we are supposed to be the caretakers for the earth and its various inhabitants. Well, I never brought THAT subject up again. |
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