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If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 03:16 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
Thank you Sc0rp10n, really good reading. Hope it works well for me too!
S'gan-Levi

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08/10/2010 05:29 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
Hey Sc0rp10n,
how do you make sure you are getting enough minerals and vitamins? You actually will eat NO fruit? Not even a small serving of lo carb blue berries?
Revelation 1:7 "Behold, He comes with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen."

Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look on Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 09:13 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
I started today by tracking everything I'm eating, being conscience of the carbs. Until I do a little more research on food options & recipes, it looks like this will be hard. For example, I made breakfast & put together lunch & snacks for the day while I'm working. And this is what I have so far;

Iím supposed to have (based on Scorpís ratios; 3500 cal/320g fat/130g Prot. /20g carbs)

Breakfast - coffee w/splenda & skim
6 eggs w/slice cheese cooked in butter

Snacks 2 polly-oís, raw string beans, 1/4c whole Almonds

Lunch - 3oz. tuna w/Italian dressing & 4oz. 2% cottage Cheese

The totals are approximately; 1075 cal./65g fat/23.5 g carbs/85 g prot.

So Iím already over my limit of carbs (nmt 20), Iím nowhere near calories & fat I need. And I gotta think of what to have for dinner.

Like I said this was very quick working with what I have and I need to look into food options more.

Any suggestions?
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 09:26 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
I would take supplements (vit. c, D, multi & fish oil).
Sc0rp10n
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08/10/2010 09:47 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
Hey Sc0rp10n,
how do you make sure you are getting enough minerals and vitamins? You actually will eat NO fruit? Not even a small serving of lo carb blue berries?
 Quoting: S'gan-Levi


I do take a multi-vitamin supplement just in case

But I do eat a lot of liver. I know some people don't like it, but 100 gm of chicken livers will give you 30% of your required Vitamin C requirement per day and they are a great source of very high quality protein. That's how I believe the Inuit and Eskimo's never had problems with scurvy, they ate the organ meats. In fact, if you look at carnivorous animals in the wild they have a huge preference for the organ meats.

[link to nutritiondata.self.com]

Pork liver actually has more Vitamin C, with 100g giving you 46% of your daily requirement.

[link to nutritiondata.self.com]

Also Red and Green Peppers are the most abundant source of Vitamin C, more than even citrus fruits, without the fructose (best raw). 100 gm of peppers will give you 130%+ of your daily Vitamin C requirement with only 3 net grammes of carbs, 2grams are fibre.

One small pepper a day will actually give you all the Vitamin C you need.

[link to nutritiondata.self.com]

Hope that helps
Sc0rp10n
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08/10/2010 09:51 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
I started today by tracking everything I'm eating, being conscience of the carbs. Until I do a little more research on food options & recipes, it looks like this will be hard. For example, I made breakfast & put together lunch & snacks for the day while I'm working. And this is what I have so far;

Iím supposed to have (based on Scorpís ratios; 3500 cal/320g fat/130g Prot. /20g carbs)

Breakfast - coffee w/splenda & skim
6 eggs w/slice cheese cooked in butter

Snacks 2 polly-oís, raw string beans, 1/4c whole Almonds

Lunch - 3oz. tuna w/Italian dressing & 4oz. 2% cottage Cheese

The totals are approximately; 1075 cal./65g fat/23.5 g carbs/85 g prot.

So Iím already over my limit of carbs (nmt 20), Iím nowhere near calories & fat I need. And I gotta think of what to have for dinner.

Like I said this was very quick working with what I have and I need to look into food options more.

Any suggestions?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783293


Just replacing the skimmed milk in your coffee with heavy cream instead will probably knock 3g of carbs off your total alone and bump up the fat %.

Also adding some pate or cream cheese or brie or blue cheeses and olives if you like them will also have the same effect of pushing down the carbs further and upping the fat % - as well as upping the calories
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 09:59 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
Awesome tips. I'm looking forward to this plan. Do you know of any sites that provide meal plan suggestions, recipes etc.?
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 10:00 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
I also wanted to ask you, what was the rate of weight loss for you, initially? 2lbs/week?
R...

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08/10/2010 10:00 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
interesting
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play." - 'Wargames'

"This world is more like a mystery, trapped in a conundrum, spun by a paradox." - AC1118155
Sc0rp10n
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08/10/2010 10:04 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
One other addition - potassium - very important and with low-carb diets this can be the one thing that you might go short on and its very important!

If you like Avocado's then having a whole avocado will give you 30% of the potassium you need. It has 365 calories and 256 of those come from fat, which is an added bonus. It will eat up 7g of your carb allowance, but will provide 17g of fibre, making it as good as nuts for that.

Red meat is also a good source of potassium, so you will get plenty on this diet.

Another alternative is Lo-Salt. Lo-Salt is 66% potassium and 33% sodium. It should come with a health warning though! Potassium in excess is quite dangerous. 1/2 to 1 teaspoon a day will give you all the potassium you need.

Since I have a slight allergy to avocado's I do take a 1/2 teaspoon of this with water for breakfast every morning. I did try to use it on my food and in cooking as opposed to normal salt, but I find it a little bitter. Much easier to take the pain in one go and just drink it right down lol

You will know if you have a potassium shortfall because you will occasional get what feels like a very loud heartbeat. This is more likely if you exercise a lot since your potassium requirement rises significantly when you exercise since your electrolytes are depleted through sweating. These loud heartbeats can affect even athletes who are not low-carb because of the electrolyte depletion.

Alcohol and caffeine can also cause electrolyte depletion, which is why you will find the most common ingredients in morning after remedies are a pain-killer, sodium & potassium. Most of the pain of a hangover are caused by the fact that alcohol drops your blood sugars, dehydrates you and depletes the electrolytes in your body. Any remedy that reverse those three will quickly cure a hangover lol
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 10:05 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
'Just replacing the skimmed milk in your coffee with heavy cream '

this is so crazy! I've grown up thinking the opposite! it really pisses me off that our society pushes this way of living on us. its not right!
Sc0rp10n
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08/10/2010 10:08 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
I also wanted to ask you, what was the rate of weight loss for you, initially? 2lbs/week?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783293


I lost about 85 lbs over 10 months - so pretty much averaged 8.5 a month.

There was a big initial fall of about 10-12 lbs, then a 3-4 week stall. My biggest weight loss in a month was 16 lbs, my lowest was less than 2 lbs.

After the big first loss it almost goes down in steps. Nothing happens for a week weeks (it may even go up) and then it falls off a cliff. I don't know why it works like that but seems to be the same for everybody.

After a big fall I often had a big rise too, regaining up to half what I lost and then it would start nudging down again.

The body is a strange mechanism. I am sure there is a reason for this and my suspicion is to do with the way the body processes toxins that have been locked up in our fat cells, sometimes for years.
kat

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08/10/2010 10:10 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
I started today by tracking everything I'm eating, being conscience of the carbs. Until I do a little more research on food options & recipes, it looks like this will be hard. For example, I made breakfast & put together lunch & snacks for the day while I'm working. And this is what I have so far;

Iím supposed to have (based on Scorpís ratios; 3500 cal/320g fat/130g Prot. /20g carbs)

Breakfast - coffee w/splenda & skim
6 eggs w/slice cheese cooked in butter

Snacks 2 polly-oís, raw string beans, 1/4c whole Almonds

Lunch - 3oz. tuna w/Italian dressing & 4oz. 2% cottage Cheese

The totals are approximately; 1075 cal./65g fat/23.5 g carbs/85 g prot.

So Iím already over my limit of carbs (nmt 20), Iím nowhere near calories & fat I need. And I gotta think of what to have for dinner.

Like I said this was very quick working with what I have and I need to look into food options more.

Any suggestions?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783293

Get rid of the skim and use real milk, and lose the splenda. it's a neurotoxin.

you can eat some good carbs, like garden salad. Stay away from fruit, That has tons of carbs.

Make sure you drink lots and lots of water.
No good deed goes unpunished.
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 10:11 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
bsflag
rachel
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08/10/2010 10:11 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
Great thread

The ultra metabolism books by mark hyman md explain this too

Facinating how we where so brainwashed to eat magerines instead of real butter or how people bash me for eating avacodos
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 10:14 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
any safe alternatives to splenda? & w/o carbs. What type of side effects is a splenda type product responsible for?

also, Thanks for the additional tips.
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 10:17 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
I remember my mother on the Atkins diet, she lost weight quickly and it truly amazed me. The poor guy took a lot of criticism though. Wasn't he a cardiac specialist?

You know looking at the list of recommended food to eat, I can't help but think of my grandma. She didn't have one fat cell on her body, she lived to 88, never a health problem in her life.

She NEVER used margarine, ONLY butter and never skim milk in her coffee but cream. Ate constantly it seemed, always snacking on nuts and fruits. She wasn't one to " work out" or exercise but was in remarkable shape.

It's funny, when she was offered margarine or " healthy " stuff, she would turn her nose up to it, always saying in my day they didn't have margarine, only butter, lord only knows what is in that stuff.. seems like my grandma with her 8th grade education knew better than some.
Sc0rp10n
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08/10/2010 10:18 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
'Just replacing the skimmed milk in your coffee with heavy cream '

this is so crazy! I've grown up thinking the opposite! it really pisses me off that our society pushes this way of living on us. its not right!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783293


It is totally crazy! Have a look at the sugar/carb content of skimmed, semi-skimmed, whole milk and heavy cream. You will be horrified!!

1 cup of skim milk will contain 14g of sugar (lactose) and 10gm of protein. That is getting close to levels in some low sugar soda's!

Basically when you remove the fat, it leaves the sugar and water, that's it.

1 cup of heavy cream has 7g of sugar and only 5g of protein, and has 821 calories as opposed to 101 for 1 cup of skim milk (with 774 of those coming from fat) :)

Also a much smaller amount of cream gives a much richer flavour to coffee than the amount of milk you need.
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 10:19 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
years ago my doctor told me that muscle weighs more than fat, so even though you don't see the results on the scale, the lost inches are a good thing from what I understand.


I've been on the Atkins Diet twice and each time I lost 80+ in a year! Then I stalled out for a year, even started working out and the weight would not go away. Although, I was loosing inches but not lbs??
I'm planning on getting back on the plan soon, but would like to know if anyone else experienced the same and how did you break the long term plateau's.
 Quoting: a non coward 1062253
Sc0rp10n
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08/10/2010 10:24 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
I remember my mother on the Atkins diet, she lost weight quickly and it truly amazed me. The poor guy took a lot of criticism though. Wasn't he a cardiac specialist?

You know looking at the list of recommended food to eat, I can't help but think of my grandma. She didn't have one fat cell on her body, she lived to 88, never a health problem in her life.

She NEVER used margarine, ONLY butter and never skim milk in her coffee but cream. Ate constantly it seemed, always snacking on nuts and fruits. She wasn't one to " work out" or exercise but was in remarkable shape.

It's funny, when she was offered margarine or " healthy " stuff, she would turn her nose up to it, always saying in my day they didn't have margarine, only butter, lord only knows what is in that stuff.. seems like my grandma with her 8th grade education knew better than some.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1030631


Yep, Atkins was a cardiac specialist. And yes he took a lot of criticism because he challenged the orthodoxy!

What you mention is called the "French Paradox". The French eat way more fat than anyone else (cheese, butter, cream, whole milk, foie gras - very high fat, etc) and yet they have the lowest rates of heart disease in the Western world and relatively low obesity rates!

This is now starting to change, with substances such as foie gras being frowned on for being so high fat. As French fat consumption is finally succumbing to the propaganda, so their heart disease rates and obesity are beginning to rise!

Also on figures between 2005-2010 the French had a life expectancy of 80.7 years - with the UK on 79.4 and the US trailing on 78.2.
R...

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08/10/2010 10:26 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
complicated stuff imo
I would just like to eat, instead of weighing and counting everything
seems obsessive to me
but some knowledge is good, and can change eating behavior
but I'm not gonna count all I eat, just minding what I eat

never cook with oil huh? So cook with what then?
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play." - 'Wargames'

"This world is more like a mystery, trapped in a conundrum, spun by a paradox." - AC1118155
R...

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08/10/2010 10:27 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
One other addition - potassium - very important and with low-carb diets this can be the one thing that you might go short on and its very important!

If you like Avocado's then having a whole avocado will give you 30% of the potassium you need. It has 365 calories and 256 of those come from fat, which is an added bonus. It will eat up 7g of your carb allowance, but will provide 17g of fibre, making it as good as nuts for that.

Red meat is also a good source of potassium, so you will get plenty on this diet.

Another alternative is Lo-Salt. Lo-Salt is 66% potassium and 33% sodium. It should come with a health warning though! Potassium in excess is quite dangerous. 1/2 to 1 teaspoon a day will give you all the potassium you need.

Since I have a slight allergy to avocado's I do take a 1/2 teaspoon of this with water for breakfast every morning. I did try to use it on my food and in cooking as opposed to normal salt, but I find it a little bitter. Much easier to take the pain in one go and just drink it right down lol

You will know if you have a potassium shortfall because you will occasional get what feels like a very loud heartbeat. This is more likely if you exercise a lot since your potassium requirement rises significantly when you exercise since your electrolytes are depleted through sweating. These loud heartbeats can affect even athletes who are not low-carb because of the electrolyte depletion.

Alcohol and caffeine can also cause electrolyte depletion, which is why you will find the most common ingredients in morning after remedies are a pain-killer, sodium & potassium. Most of the pain of a hangover are caused by the fact that alcohol drops your blood sugars, dehydrates you and depletes the electrolytes in your body. Any remedy that reverse those three will quickly cure a hangover lol
 Quoting: Sc0rp10n 1062159

sigh...shitload of info here...too much to digest (LOL). Do you have a book recommendation?
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play." - 'Wargames'

"This world is more like a mystery, trapped in a conundrum, spun by a paradox." - AC1118155
Sc0rp10n
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08/10/2010 10:28 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
years ago my doctor told me that muscle weighs more than fat, so even though you don't see the results on the scale, the lost inches are a good thing from what I understand.



I've been on the Atkins Diet twice and each time I lost 80+ in a year! Then I stalled out for a year, even started working out and the weight would not go away. Although, I was loosing inches but not lbs??
I'm planning on getting back on the plan soon, but would like to know if anyone else experienced the same and how did you break the long term plateau's.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1030631


That's very true as well. I relied heavily on tape measure as well as the scales. Sometimes even when the scales weren't moving the measurements were coming down.

I will say though, the hardest to lose is the central abdominal fat. I am still struggling with some left over there. I have a very low body fat everywhere, but the central fat is very persistent! OK, this is relative of course. I did drop from 44 inches to 31/32, but there is a very persistent 1-2 inches that refuses to shift.

It's annoying since I would like my tummy to be as hard as the rest of me has become - DAMMIT lol
Sc0rp10n
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08/10/2010 10:31 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
complicated stuff imo
I would just like to eat, instead of weighing and counting everything
seems obsessive to me
but some knowledge is good, and can change eating behavior
but I'm not gonna count all I eat, just minding what I eat

never cook with oil huh? So cook with what then?
 Quoting: R...


Butter, lard, coconut oil, palm oil or beef dripping (tallow) - depending on your preference of course. And good to vary them to get a variety of fats.

All the saturated fats. They are more chemically stable and produce far less toxins when heated.
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 10:34 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
R,
I agree with you, life is busy enough to have to spend the time to count calories. For me, I will, until I see results (wt. loss) then I'll stop the counting and make it part of my daily routine.

I have been using olive oil flavored cooking spray for a long time. I'm going back to using butter. thats the way my mom used to cook.

K
S'gan-Levi

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08/10/2010 10:36 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
Sc0rp10n,
do you eat yogurt?

I eat alot of it.
Revelation 1:7 "Behold, He comes with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen."

Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look on Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 10:39 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
Ok question here, if I recall with the Atkins diet ( referring to it because this is the one I am the most familiar with) I think my mother ate as many eggs as she wanted , same with meat.. was way off from what they recommend now ie 4 oz of chicken, or 1 poached egg.. am I remembering this correctly?

Also for some reason, I think that salad was a no on at the time when she was on it? I can't remember exactly, but it was crazy , bacon, fried eggs on butter, tons of red meat, and eat until you were full? I do remember that lots and lots and lots of water was important though.
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 10:39 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
It's the trans fat that gives you metabolic syndrome. It is slow acting poison.

Trans fat destroys enzyme in liver that make vitamin D. Vitamin D regulates weight through it's control of insulin and leptin.

Vitamin D is critical for the immune system.
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 10:40 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
I'd like to add something...

Scorpion is right on a lot of things. I haven't really truly looked into Atkins but I've been reading and experimenting for like 20 years. I go by science based diet that is published in papers. I prefer something that would prevent diabetes and heart disease in the long run and something that is easy to stick to. Paleo diet is probably best all around based on clinical studies for heart disease and diabetes. Unfortunately, big food businesses and drug businesses don't go by science and just rips us off to try and get us to buy crappy "health" food when they aren't really healthy. Pasta, bread, oatmeal cereal, etc anything that are refined carbohydrates. Even sports juice or any drinks with fructose based drinks.

Here is a pretty good website - this guy looks at nutritional studies very carefully and explains to us why it's right or wrong because those papers tend to be ...wordy and boring. It's like foreign language to most people. [link to wholehealthsource.blogspot.com]

There are many many many more blogs covering everything. Even showed papers that saturated fat is not the real culprit for heart disease but it is the excessive amount of refined carbs. It's really all about controlling blood sugar level. No difference than other low carbs diet. Just minor differences over food selections.

[link to heartscanblog.blogspot.com] - the guy who runs it is a cardiologist with tons of knowledge in nutrition which is very rare. Most are idiots when it comes to nutrition in depth. He advocates a diet something similar to Paleo Diet because that's what he saw made biggest improvement in his patients' health. He does everything right. He use right kind of cholesterol test called NMR which is much more accurate and can measure LDL small particles which most commonly used calculated cholesterol test can't do at all. The dirty secret is that the excessive amount of carbs can raise small LDL particle level very very very high. It's directly responsible for plaque build up in the arteries. Make sure your doctor use NMR, not calculated cholesterol test!

I've read everything for 20 years so it's really all about controlling blood sugar level if you want to have long quality life. Everything we hear from MSM is bullshit. It's totally opposite. The food pyramid should be upside down for sure. Ignore American Dietetic Association, American Diabetic Association, American Heart Association, etc at all costs. They suck and rips us off with high carbs, low fat bullshit diet which have been proved to be bad for you over and over and over.
Sc0rp10n
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08/10/2010 10:40 AM
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Re: If you want to be thin and stay thin (and avoid Metabolic Syndrome), then you have to eat high fat
R,
I agree with you, life is busy enough to have to spend the time to count calories. For me, I will, until I see results (wt. loss) then I'll stop the counting and make it part of my daily routine.

I have been using olive oil flavored cooking spray for a long time. I'm going back to using butter. thats the way my mom used to cook.

K
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783293


K

I have pretty much stopped counting too. It has now become second nature and I know what causes rises and falls in my weight.

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