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the concept of time (the happening)

 
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/10/2010 06:07 PM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
please people give me some insight on how you understand "time"


That is the answer of .time.
 Quoting: Hades!

what i just sied...or that quote?
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/10/2010 06:21 PM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
hard concept to grasp
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/10/2010 06:28 PM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
bump
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 06:55 PM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
if you can stop...would time?
 Quoting: DrEaMz


they say meditation like yoga gives you more deep sleep than actual rest..so therefore it increases your lifespan.

perhaps!
Anonymous Coward
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08/10/2010 06:57 PM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
Agreed !!
tkwasny

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08/10/2010 07:05 PM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
time is an illusion


if there weren't two points in space, it wouldn't exist
 Quoting: DrEaMz


Time is space that before and after the impact with the anomaly. The anomaly is struck by the current of time from infinite expanse, absolute future. All current of time as absolute kinetic is then inverted in absolute static as all infinite 3D space for an infinitesimal duration. There is a string of these impacts. Infinite 3D space collapses through the anomaly and returns to its normal state of absolute kinetic, we label the past, as it is returned to the state of time current flooding toward the one infinitely kinetic, infinitesimal singularity.

Time is space that is engaged in absolute kinetic.

Space is time that is halted into absolute static.

That darned anomaly in the way... making it possible for "the present" and all space to exist... the nerve of it getting in the way of the time current between infinite expanse and the singularity.

Last Edited by tkwasny on 08/10/2010 07:06 PM
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/10/2010 07:56 PM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
time is an illusion


if there weren't two points in space, it wouldn't exist


Time is space that before and after the impact with the anomaly. The anomaly is struck by the current of time from infinite expanse, absolute future. All current of time as absolute kinetic is then inverted in absolute static as all infinite 3D space for an infinitesimal duration. There is a string of these impacts. Infinite 3D space collapses through the anomaly and returns to its normal state of absolute kinetic, we label the past, as it is returned to the state of time current flooding toward the one infinitely kinetic, infinitesimal singularity.

Time is space that is engaged in absolute kinetic.

Space is time that is halted into absolute static.

That darned anomaly in the way... making it possible for "the present" and all space to exist... the nerve of it getting in the way of the time current between infinite expanse and the singularity.
 Quoting: tkwasny

nicely written an all(but confusing as fuck)
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
DrEaMz (OP)

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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
rockon
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/10/2010 08:22 PM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
the only time traveling we do is threw coasting through the present.
let it take us on its journey
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/10/2010 08:30 PM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
help me get threw this
blow my mind
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/10/2010 08:41 PM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
rockon bump rockon
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
DrEaMz (OP)

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Re: the concept of time (the happening)


Last Edited by DrEaMz on 08/11/2010 12:41 AM
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/11/2010 01:09 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
if anyone has any crackpot theory's....go right ahead


there as good as any?!? rockon redface rockon
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
Dreamcatcher
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
if anyone has any crackpot theory's....go right ahead


there as good as any?!? rockon redface rockon
 Quoting: DrEaMz



Ok...I will...There are many questions about the nature of time.
What is time? What causes time? Why time slows in gravity? Why time slows in motion? Is time a dimension? I speculate that time may be motion.However motion could be slower or faster but not
time. Do you follow me? According to Einstein’s relativity time also becomes amenable to change. Similarly
when Einstein was working to develop theory of general relativity and proposed the revolutionary idea that mass curves space he did not know that the universe was expanding. This discovery by astronomer Edwin Hubble came 13 years after Einstein had published his theory of
General Relativity. Had Einstein known of this great discovery he may have incorporated these ideas into his theories. Conceptually it is easier to derive space curvature in an expanding universe as an area of slower expansion under the influence of gravitons. Still with me in this? As you can see, the concept expands with what we learn as "time" goes on...lol..One of the most
dramatic aspects of the universe is that it is expanding and the presence of motion, forces and curved space-time happens in the expanding space.

In the next few paragraphs I will show that time is an emergent concept. There is an underlaying process of motion and forces from which time emerges, however what we perceive as time is mostly an illusion. Our memory creates the illusion of the past. Conscious perception of events gives the feeling of present. Future is a mental construct patterned on memory experience of the past. Concept of time emerges as our mind tries to make sense of the world around us which is filled with continuous change. Is this all simplified enough for everyone? Good. Continue to follow along.
The passage of time is an illusion suggesting that only present is real. This was suggested by Philosopher John Ellis McTaggart (1908). He is famous for his A, B and C series analysis of time. A brief review is as follows.

The earlier and later aspect of time is basically same as arrow of time. Birth of a person always comes before their death even as these events become part of distant past. This is a fixed relationship so McTaggart asserts it must be more fundamental to time.

The past present and future aspect of time is constantly changing, future events are moving to present and then into past and then further back into past. This aspect deals with feeling of flow of time. This constantly changing relationship is also essential to description of time.
McTaggart felt that time is unreal because distinction of past present and future (a changing relationship) is more essential to time then the fixed relationship of earlier and later.
McTaggart's most interesting observation however is that historical events have same time characteristic as made up stories. For example made up stories, as well as past historical events have in them, the earlier and the later as well as the past the present and the future, thus suggesting that past really is more like memory of events and does not exist any more than imagination of a writer. The above point becomes more clear when we compare past present and future to other recording devices like laser discs CDs and hard drives.

Present is the most real perception of time however almost all of what we perceive as the present is already past. The present is a fleeting moment, whatever is happening now (present) is confined to an infinitesimally narrow point on the time line which is being encroached upon by what we think of as the past and the future. Present resembles the sharp point of a recording laser or needle while past
being a duration or extension resembles the recorded material like tape or CD.

Present may be mental awareness of the recording of memory into our brain. A person can go to an event but fall asleep and miss the event completely. So that event basically does not exist in his past. Unless we are consciously aware of an event it does not seem to enter our past memory.Unlike the present we see past and future as measurable durations of hour days months and years. Past historical events, an upcoming meeting, wedding, or other events are all measurable durations or extensions in time, just like a recorded material on tape, video recordings, and tracks of
CD or DVD.

This similarity suggests that past is just a recorded memory,while future is like an unrecorded tape. Future is a projection created by our past experiences which are stored in OUR MEMORY. wHen we measure a mass we use a standard mass like KG or LB for comparison. Distances we measure using a standard of length like a meter yard or feet. Keeping the above in mind let us think how we measure motion. We use time to measure motion i.e. Feet per second or miles per hour. This provides a hint that when dealing with time we are actually dealing with some standard of motion.

We may have made the concept of time more complicated then what it really is. Measurement of time started early on in human development. There are plenty of clues in every language in the greetings and the meetings. Time of the day is related to the position of sun in the sky or its absence thereof. There is dawn, sunrise, early morning, morning, mid morning, noon, afternoon, late afternoon, evening,
sunset, dusk, night and mid night. Then there are years, months, weeks, based on earth’s yearly orbit around the sun and the changing seasons. The use of units like seconds and minutes which are radial angle measurements in geometry points toward the original connection of time measurements to radial motion of astronomical objects across the sky. Once we started using clocks, watches, and then
digital time we got completely disconnected from the original method of measurement and time developed a life of its own.

The problem of time may be easy to solve if we go back to the original concept of sun moving across the sky. When we measure the speed of a car, we are just comparing its motion to the motion of the hands of the clock and also indirectly to the fractional motion of sun across the
sky. We are not measuring speed with something abstract called time we are just comparing a known motion (of the sun) with an unknown motion of the car.

In a recent article in Scientific American Craig Callender elegantly compares time with a unit of motion. Time is a way to compare or describe different kinds of motions like speed of light, how fast heart beats or how frequently earth spins around its axis. But these processes could be compared directly without making reference to time. Time may just be common currency or unit of motion making the world easier to describe but having no independent existence. Measuring processes (of motion) with time is like using money rather than barter transactions. This again suggests that underlying mechanism of time is just presence of motion.
Time is an emergent concept. There is a real phenomenon a continuous change through which we live. To understand time we have to understand the mechanism which brings about this continuous change from which our mind creates the illusion of flow of time. Time becomes evident through motion and is measured by comparison with other motions. Sunrise sunsets, night and day, the changing seasons, the movement of the celestial bodies are all indicative of continuous change. The aging process is a reminder that molecular
motion and interactions are also at work and are a part of time. Other very important aspect of time is presence of motion of particles like photon and motion at atomic level.

Imagine two objects one moving in orbit around the other in space. Now suppose from our distant observation point of a fixed time we observe time to get slower in the area
where these two objects are moving. We expect to see slower motion? We also should observe proportionally weaker gravitational force; otherwise the objects will get pulled
together. If we observed faster time, we expect to see faster motion and stronger gravity to keep the objects from flying apart. While with zero time motion will freeze and gravity will become zero.

The increase or decrease in strength of gravity is only in relation to our fixed time from where we are making the observation. From the point of view (time) of the orbiting objects neither motion nor gravity has changed. As this thought experiment also can be extended to particles held together by electromagnetic forces we can say that time
involves both motion and forces.

Time can be defined from many perspectives. From perception view point time is an emergent concept which our mind creates. Present is the consciousness or awareness of recording of memory into the brain. Past is just a record while future does not exist. From point of view of physics time is presence of motion and forces in the universe.

Time involves all kinds of motion. The spin of particles and the motion of photons are time dependent. Gravitational force and electromagnetic forces are all part of time. As is the motion of celestial bodies the atoms and all other motion. We have partially understood the phenomenon of time. The next step is to find out what is the source of
this motion and forces. For me though? It is beddy bye....
MotherGoose

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08/11/2010 01:29 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
Well what I *know* is in dreams I see events and situations that I sometimes have found myself meeting up with years later. I believe this is the source of the experience of Déjà vu people report having. Not all dream images are events from the future, or at least as far as I can tell, but some are with out a doubt.

So, this is a function of consciousness in someway.
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/11/2010 01:34 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
if anyone has any crackpot theory's....go right ahead


there as good as any?!? rockon redface rockon



Ok...I will...There are many questions about the nature of time.
What is time? What causes time? Why time slows in gravity? Why time slows in motion? Is time a dimension? I speculate that time may be motion.However motion could be slower or faster but not
time. Do you follow me? According to Einstein’s relativity time also becomes amenable to change. Similarly
when Einstein was working to develop theory of general relativity and proposed the revolutionary idea that mass curves space he did not know that the universe was expanding. This discovery by astronomer Edwin Hubble came 13 years after Einstein had published his theory of
General Relativity. Had Einstein known of this great discovery he may have incorporated these ideas into his theories. Conceptually it is easier to derive space curvature in an expanding universe as an area of slower expansion under the influence of gravitons. Still with me in this? As you can see, the concept expands with what we learn as "time" goes on...lol..One of the most
dramatic aspects of the universe is that it is expanding and the presence of motion, forces and curved space-time happens in the expanding space.

In the next few paragraphs I will show that time is an emergent concept. There is an underlaying process of motion and forces from which time emerges, however what we perceive as time is mostly an illusion. Our memory creates the illusion of the past. Conscious perception of events gives the feeling of present. Future is a mental construct patterned on memory experience of the past. Concept of time emerges as our mind tries to make sense of the world around us which is filled with continuous change. Is this all simplified enough for everyone? Good. Continue to follow along.
The passage of time is an illusion suggesting that only present is real. This was suggested by Philosopher John Ellis McTaggart (1908). He is famous for his A, B and C series analysis of time. A brief review is as follows.

The earlier and later aspect of time is basically same as arrow of time. Birth of a person always comes before their death even as these events become part of distant past. This is a fixed relationship so McTaggart asserts it must be more fundamental to time.

The past present and future aspect of time is constantly changing, future events are moving to present and then into past and then further back into past. This aspect deals with feeling of flow of time. This constantly changing relationship is also essential to description of time.
McTaggart felt that time is unreal because distinction of past present and future (a changing relationship) is more essential to time then the fixed relationship of earlier and later.
McTaggart's most interesting observation however is that historical events have same time characteristic as made up stories. For example made up stories, as well as past historical events have in them, the earlier and the later as well as the past the present and the future, thus suggesting that past really is more like memory of events and does not exist any more than imagination of a writer. The above point becomes more clear when we compare past present and future to other recording devices like laser discs CDs and hard drives.

Present is the most real perception of time however almost all of what we perceive as the present is already past. The present is a fleeting moment, whatever is happening now (present) is confined to an infinitesimally narrow point on the time line which is being encroached upon by what we think of as the past and the future. Present resembles the sharp point of a recording laser or needle while past
being a duration or extension resembles the recorded material like tape or CD.

Present may be mental awareness of the recording of memory into our brain. A person can go to an event but fall asleep and miss the event completely. So that event basically does not exist in his past. Unless we are consciously aware of an event it does not seem to enter our past memory.Unlike the present we see past and future as measurable durations of hour days months and years. Past historical events, an upcoming meeting, wedding, or other events are all measurable durations or extensions in time, just like a recorded material on tape, video recordings, and tracks of
CD or DVD.

This similarity suggests that past is just a recorded memory,while future is like an unrecorded tape. Future is a projection created by our past experiences which are stored in OUR MEMORY. wHen we measure a mass we use a standard mass like KG or LB for comparison. Distances we measure using a standard of length like a meter yard or feet. Keeping the above in mind let us think how we measure motion. We use time to measure motion i.e. Feet per second or miles per hour. This provides a hint that when dealing with time we are actually dealing with some standard of motion.

We may have made the concept of time more complicated then what it really is. Measurement of time started early on in human development. There are plenty of clues in every language in the greetings and the meetings. Time of the day is related to the position of sun in the sky or its absence thereof. There is dawn, sunrise, early morning, morning, mid morning, noon, afternoon, late afternoon, evening,
sunset, dusk, night and mid night. Then there are years, months, weeks, based on earth’s yearly orbit around the sun and the changing seasons. The use of units like seconds and minutes which are radial angle measurements in geometry points toward the original connection of time measurements to radial motion of astronomical objects across the sky. Once we started using clocks, watches, and then
digital time we got completely disconnected from the original method of measurement and time developed a life of its own.

The problem of time may be easy to solve if we go back to the original concept of sun moving across the sky. When we measure the speed of a car, we are just comparing its motion to the motion of the hands of the clock and also indirectly to the fractional motion of sun across the
sky. We are not measuring speed with something abstract called time we are just comparing a known motion (of the sun) with an unknown motion of the car.

In a recent article in Scientific American Craig Callender elegantly compares time with a unit of motion. Time is a way to compare or describe different kinds of motions like speed of light, how fast heart beats or how frequently earth spins around its axis. But these processes could be compared directly without making reference to time. Time may just be common currency or unit of motion making the world easier to describe but having no independent existence. Measuring processes (of motion) with time is like using money rather than barter transactions. This again suggests that underlying mechanism of time is just presence of motion.
Time is an emergent concept. There is a real phenomenon a continuous change through which we live. To understand time we have to understand the mechanism which brings about this continuous change from which our mind creates the illusion of flow of time. Time becomes evident through motion and is measured by comparison with other motions. Sunrise sunsets, night and day, the changing seasons, the movement of the celestial bodies are all indicative of continuous change. The aging process is a reminder that molecular
motion and interactions are also at work and are a part of time. Other very important aspect of time is presence of motion of particles like photon and motion at atomic level.

Imagine two objects one moving in orbit around the other in space. Now suppose from our distant observation point of a fixed time we observe time to get slower in the area
where these two objects are moving. We expect to see slower motion? We also should observe proportionally weaker gravitational force; otherwise the objects will get pulled
together. If we observed faster time, we expect to see faster motion and stronger gravity to keep the objects from flying apart. While with zero time motion will freeze and gravity will become zero.

The increase or decrease in strength of gravity is only in relation to our fixed time from where we are making the observation. From the point of view (time) of the orbiting objects neither motion nor gravity has changed. As this thought experiment also can be extended to particles held together by electromagnetic forces we can say that time
involves both motion and forces.

Time can be defined from many perspectives. From perception view point time is an emergent concept which our mind creates. Present is the consciousness or awareness of recording of memory into the brain. Past is just a record while future does not exist. From point of view of physics time is presence of motion and forces in the universe.

Time involves all kinds of motion. The spin of particles and the motion of photons are time dependent. Gravitational force and electromagnetic forces are all part of time. As is the motion of celestial bodies the atoms and all other motion. We have partially understood the phenomenon of time. The next step is to find out what is the source of
this motion and forces. For me though? It is beddy bye....
 Quoting: Dreamcatcher 796629

dude this is really good..and yes i was with you(for about a paragraph)because i had to congratulate you on this.....

when im done ill coment a better post


best of luck, rockon
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
MotherGoose

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08/11/2010 01:39 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
While I was writing my post, "Dreamcatcher", was posting their comments. I find that to be interesting and of importance. These synchronicities happen all the "time", and they have something to do with time not being a linear thing.
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/11/2010 01:42 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
While I was writing my post, "Dreamcatcher", was posting their comments. I find that to be interesting and of importance. These synchronicities happen all the "time", and they have something to do with time not being a linear thing.
 Quoting: MotherGoose



banana2
+1000
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
Anonymous Coward
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08/11/2010 01:43 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
Of course, but it is one of our greatest fantasies, so it is pleasant to think about.
MotherGoose

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08/11/2010 01:48 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)

While I was writing my post, "Dreamcatcher", was posting their comments. I find that to be interesting and of importance. These synchronicities happen all the "time", and they have something to do with time not being a linear thing.



banana2
+1000
 Quoting: DrEaMz



:LMAO-MG: Lovely dancing banana. So you agree then? It is not linear? But earlier in the thread you said you did not believe in the soul, or some such thing.
sum_peeps

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Re: the concept of time (the happening)


Michio Kaku is a confirmed shill though:


Scary...
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/11/2010 01:52 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
time is an illusion


if there weren't two points in space, it wouldn't exist


Time is space that before and after the impact with the anomaly. The anomaly is struck by the current of time from infinite expanse, absolute future. All current of time as absolute kinetic is then inverted in absolute static as all infinite 3D space for an infinitesimal duration. There is a string of these impacts. Infinite 3D space collapses through the anomaly and returns to its normal state of absolute kinetic, we label the past, as it is returned to the state of time current flooding toward the one infinitely kinetic, infinitesimal singularity.

Time is space that is engaged in absolute kinetic.

Space is time that is halted into absolute static.

That darned anomaly in the way... making it possible for "the present" and all space to exist... the nerve of it getting in the way of the time current between infinite expanse and the singularity.
 Quoting: tkwasny

by anomaly..do u mean the big bang?
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/11/2010 01:57 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)

While I was writing my post, "Dreamcatcher", was posting their comments. I find that to be interesting and of importance. These synchronicities happen all the "time", and they have something to do with time not being a linear thing.



banana2
+1000



:LMAO-MG: Lovely dancing banana. So you agree then? It is not linear? But earlier in the thread you said you did not believe in the soul, or some such thing.
 Quoting: MotherGoose

by linear i thought you ment moving in a line..
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
MotherGoose

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08/11/2010 01:58 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
Michio Kaku is a confirmed shill though:


Scary...
 Quoting: sum_peeps



Ahh ambition and ego will eat up the brightest minds.
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/11/2010 01:59 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
"wear do we come up with these particles that work together to comprehend"
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
MotherGoose

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08/11/2010 02:00 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
by linear i thought you ment moving in a line..
 Quoting: DrEaMz



That is what I mean, time does not move in a straight line. What part of me is not constrained by linear time? I am assuming it's not my body.
DrEaMz (OP)

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08/11/2010 02:04 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
earlier in the thread i wrote

time is a measurement of change
not a line you can bend


by which i mean "you cant bend the fabric of space/time to get to the future or the past...because there is none."
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
DrEaMz (OP)

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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
earlier in the thread i wrote

time is a measurement of change
not a line you can bend


by which i mean "you cant bend the fabric of space/time to get to the future or the past...because there is none."
 Quoting: DrEaMz

none = is no fabric
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."~Albert Einstein
MotherGoose

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08/11/2010 02:07 AM
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Re: the concept of time (the happening)
earlier in the thread i wrote

time is a measurement of change
not a line you can bend


by which i mean "you cant bend the fabric of space/time to get to the future or the past...because there is none."

none = is no fabric
 Quoting: DrEaMz



Oh. I misunderstood. Hummm... :Thinking-MG:

If there is no fabric of space/time, what is there then?
MotherGoose

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:pointer:

"wear do we come up with these particles that work together to comprehend"
 Quoting: DrEaMz



Good question.

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