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can a hospital keep a person against their will?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:10 PM
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can a hospital keep a person against their will?
a friend of mine had a panic attack along with suicidal thoughts but attempted nothing dangerous to herself other than go to a hospital ER for some help.

now it's two days later and she hasn't been seen by anybody other than a social worker. she's held in a room in ER and they're telling her she can't leave until transferred to a state facility to even begin treatment. they said it could take a couple more days.

this is in illinois. she signed nothing. they say because she has thoughts of taking her life that all her rights are gone. she needs to be with friends and not some shithole that doesn't give a fuck about her.

is it really not possible for her to leave being that she has done no damage to anybody?
BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
08/17/2010 02:12 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
They can't hold you...
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1048750
United States
08/17/2010 02:13 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
She needs a lawyer to show up in the ER. They will release her, quickly.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:14 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
They can't hold you...
 Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT


thanks brief!!!!! but can you elaborate?
can i go to the ER for a visiit and legally walk out the doors with her?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:16 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
i love you GLP friends!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1029691
United States
08/17/2010 02:16 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
She blabbed about having suicidal thoughts - that's enough to warrant what they call a temporary detention order in which they can and will hold you against your will.

She should have kept her mouth shut. If you're going to off yourself, do it quickly and quietly - no warnings of any kind. And make sure your method is surefire, otherwise you'll just end up in the hospital anyway.

There is no room for failure when it comes to that sort of thing. You either do it, or you don't.
BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
08/17/2010 02:16 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
They can't hold you...


thanks brief!!!!! but can you elaborate?
can i go to the ER for a visiit and legally walk out the doors with her?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1071206


As long as she is willing to sign out...You can't drag her out...
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1048750
United States
08/17/2010 02:16 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
They can't hold you...


thanks brief!!!!! but can you elaborate?
can i go to the ER for a visiit and legally walk out the doors with her?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1071206

What you need to do is hire an attorney to go to the ER and they will release her.

THis is what you need to do.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1048750
United States
08/17/2010 02:19 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
Now she has learned the hard way not to play with the beast system.

If she really wanted to harm herself, she would have not told anyone and gone to the ER.

This system is not your friend. I hope she has learned her lesson.

If she has panic attacks in the future, I recommend she start a work out regimen at a gym...
BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
08/17/2010 02:19 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
They can't hold you...


thanks brief!!!!! but can you elaborate?
can i go to the ER for a visiit and legally walk out the doors with her?

What you need to do is hire an attorney to go to the ER and they will release her.

THis is what you need to do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1048750


That works too...
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:20 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
she's been there 2 days without any psychiatric care. just waiting for beds to open up at the state facility which could take more days. meanwhile you know they're charging her for being in the room.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:21 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
Now she has learned the hard way not to play with the beast system.

If she really wanted to harm herself, she would have not told anyone and gone to the ER.

This system is not your friend. I hope she has learned her lesson.

If she has panic attacks in the future, I recommend she start a work out regimen at a gym...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1048750


yeah, she knew better...she just hadn't grokked yet. i think now she does. i've warned her about the beast system for over a year.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:24 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
They can't hold you...


thanks brief!!!!! but can you elaborate?
can i go to the ER for a visiit and legally walk out the doors with her?


As long as she is willing to sign out...You can't drag her out...
 Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT


did you mean sign in? she hasn't signed anything except a paper for her personal belongings.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1048750
United States
08/17/2010 02:25 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
Now she has learned the hard way not to play with the beast system.

If she really wanted to harm herself, she would have not told anyone and gone to the ER.

This system is not your friend. I hope she has learned her lesson.

If she has panic attacks in the future, I recommend she start a work out regimen at a gym...


yeah, she knew better...she just hadn't grokked yet. i think now she does. i've warned her about the beast system for over a year.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1071206

Also, have her look into her diet.

People who have a gluten intolerance and eat wheat products are known to have panic attacks, adhd, and other nervous problems.
A high sugar diet is bad also. If your friend does not read food labels, and eat a lot of processed food with high frutose corn syrup in it...this can contribute to her attacks as well.


I recommend you call a lawyer and not go back to the ER without one.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:25 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
Now she has learned the hard way not to play with the beast system.

If she really wanted to harm herself, she would have not told anyone and gone to the ER.

This system is not your friend. I hope she has learned her lesson.

If she has panic attacks in the future, I recommend she start a work out regimen at a gym...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1048750


does hula hooping count? i'm on the phone with her right now.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 230068
United States
08/17/2010 02:27 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
In some states they can hold you for 48 hours to do a mental evaluation.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1043635
United States
08/17/2010 02:28 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
In some states they can hold you up to 72 hours. Your friend is screwed until the time runs out or she is evaluated by a physician and released.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:30 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
In some states they can hold you for 48 hours to do a mental evaluation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 230068


the only attention she got was a few questions from a social worker.
and a packaged dinner with the fisrt ingredient being HFCS

so it goes
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:35 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
In some states they can hold you up to 72 hours. Your friend is screwed until the time runs out or she is evaluated by a physician and released.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1043635


they're holding her without any treatment waiting for a room at the facility to open. it sounds like kidnapping to me.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:35 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
we appreciate the feedback!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 02:36 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
What type of lawyer is best for such things?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 03:03 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
bump
BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
08/17/2010 03:05 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
They can't hold you...


thanks brief!!!!! but can you elaborate?
can i go to the ER for a visiit and legally walk out the doors with her?


As long as she is willing to sign out...You can't drag her out...


did you mean sign in? she hasn't signed anything except a paper for her personal belongings.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1071206


I've never been to a hospital that you didn't have to sign something...but there is no way they are going to physically restrain her from walking out...
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 677476
United States
08/17/2010 03:10 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
Quick Summary: Admission to the hospital, not arrival in the emergency room, starts the clock running for a psychiatric examination and certification of need for involuntary mental health treatment.

A person coming voluntarily to the emergency room for mental health reasons is not being held involuntarily while waiting or being attended to in the emergency room. APPELLATE COURT OF ILLINOIS, 1998.



According to the Appellate Court of Illinois, it is admission to the psychiatric unit, not voluntary presentation in the emergency room, that starts the clock running (in Illinois for twenty-four hours) during which the patient must be seen by a mental health professional specified by law and certified for an involuntary hold for treatment or for further evaluation.

Out of respect for civil liberties in our society, the courts have said that anyone not seen and certified within the exact time specified by state law must be released, regardless of their condition or need for treatment or the need to protect others from harm. The time starts when the person is first involuntarily held. In Re Moore, 704 N.E. 2d 442 (Ill. App., 1998).


- If its been 24 hours - go home.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 677476
United States
08/17/2010 03:12 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
Quick Summary: Admission to the hospital, not arrival in the emergency room, starts the clock running for a psychiatric examination and certification of need for involuntary mental health treatment.

A person coming voluntarily to the emergency room for mental health reasons is not being held involuntarily while waiting or being attended to in the emergency room. APPELLATE COURT OF ILLINOIS, 1998.



According to the Appellate Court of Illinois, it is admission to the psychiatric unit, not voluntary presentation in the emergency room, that starts the clock running (in Illinois for twenty-four hours) during which the patient must be seen by a mental health professional specified by law and certified for an involuntary hold for treatment or for further evaluation.

Out of respect for civil liberties in our society, the courts have said that anyone not seen and certified within the exact time specified by state law must be released, regardless of their condition or need for treatment or the need to protect others from harm. The time starts when the person is first involuntarily held. In Re Moore, 704 N.E. 2d 442 (Ill. App., 1998).


- If its been 24 hours - go home.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 677476


actually - go home if you have not been admitted & are just in the ER, or 24 hours after admission.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1062499
United States
08/17/2010 03:16 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
"Illinois, like each state has its own rules governing when there can be a legal intervention to get treatment for a person with a severe mental illness. Illinois rules apply to someone who needs treatment but is unable to seek it voluntarily. Illinois mental health laws outline what steps must be followed and what standards must be met before someone can be ordered into treatment in the hospital or in the community. Illinois is one of forty four states that allow court-ordered treatment in the community, often called “assisted outpatient treatment” or “outpatient commitment.” Illinois is also among half of the states whose treatment standard is based on a person’s “need for treatment” and not just on the person’s likelihood of being dangerous to self or others. The following summary can be helpful for a family member trying to get court-ordered treatment for a loved one.

For both inpatient and outpatient care, a person must demonstrate a (1) Reasonable expectation of danger to self/others, (2) unable to provide for basic physical needs so as to guard against serious harm without the assistance of others, or (3) unable to understand his or her need for treatment and who, if not treated, is reasonably expected to suffer or continue to suffer mental deterioration or emotional deterioration, or both, to the point that the person is reasonably expected to engage in dangerous conduct."

[link to www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org]
Zeus2573

User ID: 960895
United States
08/17/2010 03:17 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
this is in illinois. she signed nothing. they say because she has thoughts of taking her life that all her rights are gone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1071206


Under the circumstances, yes they can. If "they" deem you as a threat to yourself or someone else... they can and will hold you there. If you try to leave, they could potentially have her committed too. So, be careful. Yes, I am speaking from experience.

I live in Paris, Illinois. I've seen this happen more than once.

~Zeus
Zeus2573 was an alter ego that never should have existed in the first place. Therefore, he has been laid to rest, never to return again. Brent has taken his place.
______________________________________
God is dead. ~Friedrich Nietzsche - 1882

Friedrich Nietzsche is dead. ~God - August 25, 1900
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Before God we are equally wise, and equally foolish. ~ Albert Einstein.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1062499
United States
08/17/2010 03:19 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
"Illinois, like each state has its own rules governing when there can be a legal intervention to get treatment for a person with a severe mental illness. Illinois rules apply to someone who needs treatment but is unable to seek it voluntarily. Illinois mental health laws outline what steps must be followed and what standards must be met before someone can be ordered into treatment in the hospital or in the community. Illinois is one of forty four states that allow court-ordered treatment in the community, often called “assisted outpatient treatment” or “outpatient commitment.” Illinois is also among half of the states whose treatment standard is based on a person’s “need for treatment” and not just on the person’s likelihood of being dangerous to self or others. The following summary can be helpful for a family member trying to get court-ordered treatment for a loved one.

For both inpatient and outpatient care, a person must demonstrate a (1) Reasonable expectation of danger to self/others, (2) unable to provide for basic physical needs so as to guard against serious harm without the assistance of others, or (3) unable to understand his or her need for treatment and who, if not treated, is reasonably expected to suffer or continue to suffer mental deterioration or emotional deterioration, or both, to the point that the person is reasonably expected to engage in dangerous conduct."

[link to www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1062499


Here is an outline of the actual statutes - too much to copy/paste
[link to www.wct-law.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1071206
United States
08/17/2010 03:20 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
Quick Summary: Admission to the hospital, not arrival in the emergency room, starts the clock running for a psychiatric examination and certification of need for involuntary mental health treatment.

A person coming voluntarily to the emergency room for mental health reasons is not being held involuntarily while waiting or being attended to in the emergency room. APPELLATE COURT OF ILLINOIS, 1998.



According to the Appellate Court of Illinois, it is admission to the psychiatric unit, not voluntary presentation in the emergency room, that starts the clock running (in Illinois for twenty-four hours) during which the patient must be seen by a mental health professional specified by law and certified for an involuntary hold for treatment or for further evaluation.

Out of respect for civil liberties in our society, the courts have said that anyone not seen and certified within the exact time specified by state law must be released, regardless of their condition or need for treatment or the need to protect others from harm. The time starts when the person is first involuntarily held. In Re Moore, 704 N.E. 2d 442 (Ill. App., 1998).


- If its been 24 hours - go home.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 677476


beautiful! you have saved us precious time of having to look through laws, etc.

this seems to be the ammo we need.

thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!!!
<<LOOK`n thru YOU>>

User ID: 922574
United States
08/17/2010 03:21 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
It will take a family member to sign paperwork to get her released...All it takes in kansas to get forcefully admitted by your OWN family is two signatures from them...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1062499
United States
08/17/2010 03:21 PM
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Re: can a hospital keep a person against their will?
[link to www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org]


Here is an outline of the actual statutes - too much to copy/paste
[link to www.wct-law.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1062499


And, this is of interest. Has the hospital followed these procedures as dictated by law? Does not sound like it...

"c. Examination by psychiatrist:

No later than 24 hours after admission, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays, the respondent must be examined by a psychiatrist, but he or she shall not be the person who executed the first certificate. If no certificate is furnished, the respondent shall be released.

d. Notice of Rights:

Within 12 hours of admission, the recipient must be provided with a copy of the petition and a statement of rights.
The server must sign the petition in the area indicated. Within 24 hours, excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays, after admission, a copy of the petition and statement of rights shall be filed and given to the respondent’s attorney or guardian.

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