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FOOD

 
domesticangel

User ID: 483311
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08/28/2010 07:26 PM

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Re: FOOD
bump
Finally single woooohooo!!

Free your mind and the rest will follow.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God...Romans 12:2

BE the change you wish to see in the world.

"Repent, for the time is at hand"...JC

"Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."
Anka

User ID: 593875
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08/28/2010 07:27 PM

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Re: FOOD
I'm learning how to make fermented foods. It's easier than canning and extra healthy for the gut. I will use other methods of storing as well, but right now I'm really into experimenting with fermented foods and beverages.

This is what I want to try next:

Old-Fashioned, Healthy, Lacto-Fermented Soft Drinks: The Real "Real Thing"
Wednesday, 18 June 2003 10:59

My brother John and I share a hobby of brewing lacto-fermented sodas--root beers and ginger ales--which we share among family and friends and occasionally sell at health food conventions. Often we are asked, "Where can I buy this?" Our answer is "Nowhere." Unless you are lucky enough to run into us at the Weston A. Price Foundation yearly conference, chances are you will never see lacto-fermented soda for sale anywhere.

Our personal reasons for not "expanding our operation" are deeply relevant to the conflict between craft and commerce in food production. Usually I make soda in 5-gallon batches. The process is fairly time-consuming, but it fits in well with other chores and there is no obligation to brew a certain amount at a certain time. Since I enjoy brewing several times a week, I produce a surplus--far more than our own family can drink. To expand to a commercial level, though, would mean changes in the way I brew, because as it stands I can only net about $20 per hour of labor. To be commercially viable, I would need to exploit efficiencies of scale by buying better equipment: a bottle-washing machine, bottler, larger fermentation vessels, etc. Then it is no longer a kitchen hobby; it is a business that must consider shipping, legal licensing, labeling laws, sanitation regulations, accounting and so forth.
The Compromises of Commerce

So far so good. Some people are naturally inclined towards business. There are more and more small foodcrafting businesses these days, and I am happy to pay a premium for their products. But it is more than a matter of hobby versus business--there are certain compromises one must make to bring production past a certain critical volume. The critical volume for fermented foods is especially low, because the product is alive and working. Lacto-fermented soda keeps fermenting in the bottle, for instance, leading to foaming and spraying when you open it, or even dangerous exploding bottles if you leave them out long enough. There is a good reason that mass-marketed soft drinks are dead. In fact it is a necessity in the context of national brands, centralized production and mass distribution. To change the way food is produced and processed inescapably demands changes in the way it is distributed and sold.

The compromises one would have to make to sell fermented soda on an economically viable scale are constant refrigeration and scary warning labels, or pasteurization, or plastic bottles. None is acceptable to us, for ecological and health reasons.

Similar compromises apply to most of the fermented foods that have survived the last century of food industrialization. Pickles and relish are no longer fermented at all, but preserved in vinegar and sterilized with heat in the canning process. Wine is treated with sodium metabisulfite before fermentation to destroy wild bacteria and yeasts that make the results less predictable. Beer is usually pasteurized or microfiltered to kill or remove living yeast. Yogurt survives, but it just isn’t as good after the first day; the same is true of bread. Sauerkraut is usually pasteurized. To be sure there are niche brands, which are still living foods, available in health food stores, but then freezing or refrigeration is necessary. This is rather ironic, since a major motivation for fermenting foods in the first place was to preserve them, in the days before refrigeration.

To make our soda with pleasure and without compromise limits us to a production level of ten to twenty gallons a week. This is sufficient to supply perhaps five or ten households. From this realization, a new (or rather very old) economic model of food production suggests itself.
When Money Reigns Supreme

Anyone who has tried to incorporate all the principles of traditional foods into their diet will find that it is almost a full-time job. If you want to grind your own flour, bake your own bread, make your own yogurt, your own soaked-and-slow-dried nuts, your own relishes and chutneys, your own bone stock, your own sprouts, your own kombucha and ginger beer. . . this is more than the typical beleaguered house husband can handle. One wonders how they did it in the old days. The answer is, they didn’t! For one thing, before the age of the suburbs and the automobile, extended families lived together in the same house, and as often as not, next door to cousins and uncles. Four people cooking for 16 people is a lot easier than one person cooking for four. Moreover, communities were small and close-knit, and there was probably some degree of specialization and sharing among households.

I don’t want to make ginger beer for hundreds of people, most of them strangers, but I would be delighted to make it for a handful of other families whom I know well. Maybe one of them would make fresh-ground slow-rise sourdough bread for me (I never could get that to work). Maybe another would supply me with chutney and fish sauce. Maybe another makes soy sauce. Another brews beer; another wine from their own grapes. Maybe another neighbor has a 30-gallon cauldron for making beef stock; another, a 30-gallon pickling crock. For most traditional foods, the optimum level of production is more than for the nuclear family, but less than what is considered economically viable in today’s money economy.

Money can facilitate exchange among friends and neighbors, but in essence money is an anonymous form of energy--almost by its definition as a universal medium of exchange. Among friends and neighbors, the usual laws of market economics do not apply. You don’t seek to maximize profit. You don’t raise your prices to the maximum just because you can. You are not doing it for the money; you are doing it for your family and for the neighbors. In an economy of reciprocation and social exchange--that is, in an economy that is not primarily a money economy--"economic efficiency" takes on a different meaning.

The more anonymous the customer, the more money stands as the sole motivating force. In today’s multi-level, automated and standardized food production & distribution system, the consumer is almost totally anonymous to the farmer, the commodity buyer, the processing factory and even the grocer. There is no reason to care about the wholesomeness of the product, except to the extent necessary to conform to whatever regulations are enforced, and whatever the public might find out about. No reason? Oh pardon me, I forgot about altruism. Yes, of course, a company might make products better than they need to be out of an abstract altruism, but when the very real pressures of market competition come to bear, such altruism quickly degenerates into sloganeering and PR. Some version of "caring about the health of the consumer" surely appears in the mission statements of all the major food corporations, including the most egregious violators of the public trust. In other words, it is hard to genuinely care about someone you don’t even know. Compassion in the abstract is almost always a self-deception. Much more reliable is the goodwill and mutual sense of responsibility that exists among neighbors who are bound together into a community, their good intentions enforced by social pressure and the intimacy of long association.

In many areas of life, social mechanisms of enforcing responsible behavior have atrophied as communities have disintegrated. These have been replaced by legal mechanisms. The old mechanisms of social pressure, reputation, etc., have lost their power. No matter how much your neighbors dislike you, your money is still good at Wal-Mart. In today’s anonymous society, we are little dependent on our communities, which have become mere collections of buildings. More and more, we are connected to our neighbors by proximity only. The increasing legalism and litigiousness of America is a symptom of unraveling communities, weakening connections. On a most basic level, we no longer make food for each other. All phases of food production, from the farm to the kitchen, are increasingly the province of strangers who are paid to do it.

You cannot pay someone to care. You can pay someone to act as though they care; you can pay them to follow meticulous guidelines; but you can’t make them really care.

Wholesomeness of food is more than a matter of which methods and processes are used to bring it from soil to table. When caring is codified, the code loses much of its meaning, especially under the influence of powerful corporations. The letter persists while the spirit departs. Many of the best, most conscientious farmers I know eschew the organic certification, because they know that food produced according to the letter of the organic code need not be consonant with the spirit that gave birth to organic farming in the first place.

An alternative path exists: food should not be primarily a commodity. Food is a gift of God’s Good Earth, for which all religious traditions teach gratitude. To subject it to the economic regime of the lowest bidder is to desecrate the gift and insult the Giver. For most of human history, the sharing of food was a significant social act, cementing ties between friends and kin, showing welcome to strangers. Today it has become an anonymous act of commerce.
Other people in other times would no doubt have thought it exceedingly strange, if not downright obscene, for total strangers to grow, process, and even cook nearly all one’s food.
The Proper Role of Money

That is not to say that food should never be bought. Money has its rightful role, even among friends, as an aid to fairness and a means of support. What I am saying, rather, is that the sharing of food should be part of a personal relationship. Money may be involved, but the profit motive should be secondary. In my economic relationships with the local farmers I know, I am happy to pay them a fair price, in hopes that they will be prosperous. My sentiment is partly selfish, because I know that if they are prosperous, they will continue to provide me with good food. But also I simply don’t feel good about eating food that comes through the devaluing of another human being’s labor, especially when I know that human being personally. When a personal relationship exists between food supplier and food consumer, then bargaining becomes a process of each party coming to understand the other’s circumstances to find a mutually fair price, rather than a heartless and shameless exercise of getting the best possible price, which in economics is called "maximizing utility" and in commonsense language is called greed.

In working with my bacterial soda culture, I sometimes get the feeling that the bacteria themselves don’t want to be sold. Similarly, I feel that sauerkraut wants to live in a barrel in the basement. Before you dismiss this as a flight of fancy, consider the uncanny resistance of truly wholesome food to mass production and mass distribution. Most fresh foods, for example, have a limited shelf life, which can only be extended by killing the food through processing, or putting it in suspended animation by refrigeration or freezing. The former response diminishes its healthfulness; the latter has environmental costs. (Also I never have believed that freezing fully preserves the healthfulness of food. It tastes less vibrant, even if all the enzymes are supposedly intact.) Other preservation methods, namely dehydration and fermentation, might arguably work for mass production and distribution, but even here there are problems with storage and shelf life--the food companies’ use of preservatives and pasteurization is not entirely gratuitous. Besides, such foods cannot account for the bulk of one’s year-round diet.
Foods of the Future

When people ask whether they can buy our soda in the future, we usually say, "No, but we’ll teach you how to make it." We envision a society where every household has a speciality, be it soda or sauerkraut, soap or stock, bread or soy sauce, that they make in quantities sufficient for five or ten households--precisely the quantity that maximizes efficiency without compromising quality. (It is not much more work to make ten gallons of soda than it is to make one, but to make fifty gallons is an enterprise of an entirely different order.)

We envision a society also where farmers are personally acquainted with the people who eat their produce, or perhaps, for certain products, linked through one degree of separation. This is workable, because almost as if by design, the ideal size for a sustainably operated mixed family farm is sufficient to meet the food needs of 20 or 30 families. Of course, farms might specialize to some degree, so each family might patronize three or four farms; even so, this calculates out to a manageable number of people per farm, few enough that the farmer can know each personally. Personally I believe that true sustainability requires even smaller farms, and more farmers. Maybe almost everyone not living in a city should be a part-time farmer, at least to the extent of tending a vegetable garden or keeping a few chickens.

In such a society, money alone would not guarantee good food. Moving into a new community, you would need to get to know people, build connections, find your niche. Moving to a new community would be a big deal, as indeed it was in yesterday’s small towns and neighborhoods, more demanding than simply finding where the supermarkets and superstores are located. There would be more sharing in life. We would be more dependent on our neighbors, less dependent on strangers living thousands of miles away, and less dependent on corporations governed by the profit motive. Food would recapture its ancient role of social bonding. This would, I believe, be a much happier society than our current one, with its alienation, loneliness and rootlessness.
Artisanal Home Soda Fermentation

So let’s get down to making lacto-fermented soda--the real thing. The first step is simply to realize that it is very easy. The minimum equipment is a glass fermentation vessel and the minimum ingredients are sugar, water and the culture. Mix them together and fermentation happens. To make it really delicious, though, some pointers are in order.

Step 1: Bring approximately 50 percent of your water to a boil and dissolve 1.5 cups of sugar in it for each gallon of soda you plan to make. If you are boiling roots in the water (see below), remove them before adding sugar. The sweet, somewhat viscous liquid you have now is called "syrup."

Step 2: Pour the syrup and the remaining water into your fermentation vessel. I like to use the scalding hot syrup to sterilize my vessel, but be careful not to pour it in too fast or it could crack. The resulting diluted syrup is still too hot for the culture. You can either wait, or cool the syrup first by letting the pot sit in a sinkful of cold water before adding it to the vessel.

Step 3: Add any other flavorings, such as lemon juice (see below) to the diluted syrup.

Step 4: Making sure the syrup has cooled to body temperature, add about a cupful of culture for each gallon of water. You could add less culture, but the more you add, the greater the head start your beneficial bacteria have over any opportunistic invaders, such as alcohol-producing yeasts.

Step 5: Cover the vessel (it need not be completely airtight, but it can be) and let it ferment. Fermentation rate is highly variable. If you like a sweeter soda, four or five days might be sufficient. If you want to ferment out most of the sugar, allow at least 10 days. Some additives such as mint and honey tend to inhibit bacteria and drastically slow fermentation.

Step 6: Time to bottle! Brewing supply stores carry siphon tubes to siphon the soda directly from carboy to bottle, but if you are fermenting in a jar you can simply pour it into bottles or scoop it in with a glass measuring cup. You must have some way to seal the bottles, either with a bottle capper or stoppered bottles (both available at brewing supply stores). Do not bottle the thick layer of sediment at the bottom of the fermentation vessel.

Step 7: Carbonation. The soda continues to ferment in the bottles, giving off carbon dioxide gas. Since the bottles are sealed, the gas has nowhere to go. In stays in the bottle and makes the soda fizzy. Depending on how fast it is fermenting, 2-5 days is usually enough time to create the optimum level of carbonation. You can always open a bottle and check.

Step 8: Stopping fermentation. Now we have a problem, because if the soda continues to ferment the bottles will foam over or spray when opened. The bottles might even explode if left out long enough. So when carbonation is sufficient, it is time to stop fermentation by putting the bottles in the refrigerator. Not enough room? A cold basement will work too, slowing down fermentation but not quite stopping it. Usually soda will keep just fine in the basement for a month or more.

Step 9: Drink it! Lacto-fermented soda is an excellent thirst quencher and contains beneficial lactic acid, vitamins, enzymes and beneficial lactobacilli that can inhabit your gut, where they protect you against pathogenic bacteria and yeast.

Sidebars

Lacto-fermented sodas can be made commercially on a small scale. Illustrated here are two examples from Down Under. Phoenix Ginger Beer from New Zealand (left) is brewed from water, honey, ginger, lemon juice and yeast. Bundaberg Ginger Beer from Australia (right) is brewed from water, sugar, ginger and yeast but contains "food acid" and "preservatives." The Phoenix Ginger Beer wins the taste test and proves that quality soft drinks can be made on a commercial scale.
HOMEMADE SODA BASICS

Charles Eisenstein with soda containerThe Vessel: A one- or two-gallon glass jar is fine, but if you want to make larger quantities you’ll need a glass carboy, readily available at brewing supply stores for under $20. The five-gallon size works best. For a few cents you can also purchase a water lock, which bubbles merrily away as your soda ferments. All utensils should be clean, but antiseptic cleanliness is unnecessary. Usually we rinse the vessel a few times with water and sterilize it with the hot syrup for next batch.

Other VesselsOther Equipment: You will need bottles with good stoppers--a strong, tight cork, a beer bottle top, or a stopper held down with a wire. These are available at brewing stores and also at places like the Container Store. You will also need a funnel or siphon for transfering the soda from the vessel into bottles.

The Water: Do not use chlorinated tap water, as this will inhibit fermentation. Most filtered or bottled water works fine. If you must use straight tap water, boil it to evaporate off the chlorine.

The Sugar: We have gotten good results with sucanat, rice malt, maple sugar, jaggery, honey, and apple cider. The flavor from rapadura or molasses is too strong for most people. Honey is delicious but is best used as a flavoring rather than the main sugar source, because apparently honey inhibits bacterial growth. Even at half strength, honey soda can take months to finish. You can use fruit juice, but for some reason commercial canned fruit juice, even organic brands, produce noxious results. Fresh-pressed apple cider produces delicious soda, although it will probably be slightly alcoholic (1-2%) due to natural yeasts on the apples. Remember that most of the sugar will be converted into lactic acid in the fermentation process. Use about 1.5 cups of sugar per gallon of water.

GingerThe Culture: You can use a bottle of soda from the last batch as culture, or you can make your own from scratch. Dice fresh ginger root into tiny cubes and put a tablespoon of it into a mason jar 3/4 full of water, along with 2 teaspoons white sugar. Add another 2 teaspoons each sugar and ginger every day for a week, at which time it should become bubbly with a pleasant odor. If it gets moldy, dump it and start over. Even a small amount of culture will start a batch of soda going, but it’s best to use at least a cup per gallon so that these beneficial lactobacilli can dominate before less desirable microorganisms have a chance.

A Satisfied CustomerTraditional SodasFlavorings: The water used to dissolve the sugar need not be just water! You can use any herbal decoction to make soda with the flavor or medicinal qualities you are seeking. For example, to make ginger beer, boil sliced ginger root in the water, about one thumb’s-length per gallon of soda, for twenty minutes. Peppermint, spearmint, or other mint can also be used to flavor soda. Put the mint in boiling water, turn off the heat immediately, cover and steep. Lemon juice is a good addition to almost any soda flavor and seems to help preserve the syrup before fermentation gets going. Use approximately two lemons per gallon of soda, depending on juiciness. One of the favorite beverages in colonial America was root beer. Any roots can go into root beer, but the essential ones for flavor are sassafras and sarsaparilla. Sassafras in particular lends a pungent aroma and beautiful reddish color to soda, and is readily available throughout the Eastern US. Common medicinal roots like burdock, chicory, dandelion, and so forth tend to impart a strong mediciney "herbal" flavor to the soda. It’s the sassafras or sarsaparilla that make people say "Yum!"

[link to www.westonaprice.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1079734


Thanks for that!

In the seventies, my kids and I made homemade root beer many times. It was wonderful! That was back in the daze when beer bottles were sturdy and re-cappable. We liked the large Pepsi bottles. Our water came from a well in the mountains. We just added sugar, yeast and root beer "stuff", stirred it up and bottled it. We did wash the bottles well, but I don't recall any particular sterilization, as you do for beer.

Later, my grown son and I made beer, again, many times. AGain using well water. Friends would do all kinds of favors for a bottle. We used lots of hops, which made for good flavor, but after a bottle, you just had to take a nap.

What this fellow doesn't write is that the cultures are sensitive. REALLY. Ya gotta stay happy while making beer; play some good rock music or whatever.
"We shall no longer hang on to the tails of public opinion, or to a non-existent authority, on matters utterly unknown and strange. We shall gradually become experts ourselves in the mastery of the knowledge of the future." ~ Wilhelm Reich
Anka

User ID: 593875
United States
08/28/2010 07:38 PM

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Re: FOOD
Oh brother, here we go again....

This is about the 7th or possibly 8th thread on this subject (s510). You can give it a rest now.

I've not read the whole bill, but certainly much of it; and I've read the complete summary since I've seen the nutcases saying they're outlawing home-grown food. One person on another thread said it means they can come to your home and, at gunpoint, take your home-grown food.

Nonsense. No where in the bill does it say anything about home-grown food being illegal. If it does, please point it out for me




Rima LAIBOW is a shill who has done this shit before with HR 875:

[link to dissidentvoice.org]

The answers start with the NSF founders, husband-wife team Albert Stubblebine and Rima Laibow. Now, when I accuse these people of being disinformation professionals, let me explain. I’m not saying they’re doing sloppy research, and I’m not saying they’re being overzealous. What I am saying is that they are working, for pay, to spread false information and to make their organization look like a legitimate activist group.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 526155



HA! And are YOU, perchance, a principal in a rival group?
Hmmm?

Rima and STubblebine are for real. They mortgaged their house in order to fight CODEX. Stubblebine spoke out about 911, nothing in it for him to do so.

Read all the gossip here (Betcha this poster is in it!): [link to unveiling.18.forumer.com]
QUOTE SNIP

Posted May 21 by Lorae at
[link to groups.yahoo.com]
Re: Codex?

Excellent video:
[link to video.google.com]

Re: Codex?

Hey, Kathy, is that one of the groups your husband works with? I've read so much this morning, but remember seeing his last name somewhere.


Posted May 21, 2007 by Kathy at [link to groups.yahoo.com]


Re: [The-Unveiling] Re: Codex?

Yes- Ralph is working with Rima, who is amazing! We have been working within the health movement since the early seventies.

We got pulled into it by friends Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw ("Life Extension") who we met in Young Americans for Freedom back in the late 60s. A group of about 30(?) or so of us were removed from our state offices (NJ; CA; NY; PA) for being too
libertarian. We formed the Society for Individual Liberty and that grew very quickly and became the Libertarian Party a few years later. We vote libertarian but are not active in the party.

We work with any group that is fighting the FDA, but of late, we have been focusing on Rima's work, because she is consistent and making real headway. Rima has
been attacked by one of the leaders of one of the other organizations because she is creative and making progress.

The excuse to attack her is that she is married to retired Gen. Burt Stubblebine (who is working hard alongside Rima in this fight - he is one of the Gens who came out against the 911 story but the attacker ignores that and says that neither of them should be trusted because he was in the military).The attacking person is used to calling the shots within this movement and determining what gets done. If you argue with him, he goes berserk and screams obscenities at you. I have known him since the mid 80s and he hasn't changed.

We humored him for many years, but since Rima has become his target, he has gotten nastier and writes horrible lies about Rima and Burt and occasionally, us. This is beginning to hurt him because our record in this movement is very good. Rima ignores him and just works hard on the real fight- with the feds. The attacker is
actually worried about losing his "crown" to Rima and this is a movement in which there is no time for "crowns". The attacker's current plan for fighting Codex is to get petitions to Congress to repeal NAFTA- passed into law some 20 years ago! While we would like to see this happen and urge those we know to support those plans, we think that NAFTA is unlikely to be repealed- and that ALL methods of fighting Codex should be supported.

This made the attacker so angry that a few months ago, he called and raged
at me, calling me, among other things, a 'fucking cunt'. I'd rather work with Rima, thank you!

I tell you all this, not because I like to gossip (I don't, unless it's about a politician!) because you asked about us, and while the attacker is quieting down (I suspect those he works with are demanding same), he wrote viscious emails that we "went with Rima for the money" (there has been none- though it would be nice if there were!) and are purposely trying to undermine his efforts by working with Rima (also not true- we support and help anyone fighting this cause!).

So you may have seen Ralph's name on an email from him, or you may have seen it on Rense, Rumor Mill, etc., or heard him on various radio shows or seen him on a few Gary Null videos. I hope the movement can get beyond this and everyone can work together again, but at least we are working toward the same goal though from different camps.

Unfortunately, in the last week or two, several government moves have made the fight all the more difficult. Ralph is focusing on interpreting what is happening and
Rima is getting things organized online to get everyone moving on the new issues. And of course, we are also fighting the North American Union (fortunately, some states are against this also!

Ralph's site is www.vitaminlawyer.com and our group's site is
www.lifespirit.org

Don't we live in exciting times??!! –Kathy
SNIP

Posted by Kathy July 9, 2007 at
[link to groups.yahoo.com]
QUOTE
Re: IN CASE THIS ONE SLIPPED UNDER THE RADAR


Thanks for the encouragement on Codex! Ron Paul's office called today-they need us to get hundreds of thousands of messages to Pelosi's office today because a Bill is coming up tomorrow (HR 2900) and we want Ron Paul's HR 2117 attached to it! I have about 5,700 emails to answer (no exaggeration) and after today's email blast on the above, there will be many more! Can any of those Angels type???? -Kathy


E-mail Pelosi at:
[link to www.house.gov]


[link to groups.yahoo.com]

Currently the bill (2900) is scheduled for 40 minutes of debate and NO
amendments, which means Ron Paul's important Health Freedom Protection Act, HR.2117 or other amendments, such as that proposed by attorney Jonathan Emord, would not be allowed to become an amendment to this bill. HR.2900 is the House companion bill to S.1082, the FDA "revitalization" bill that breezed through the Senate
last month. That Senate bill was amended to protect Dietary Supplements and
we want to make sure the House bill will also be amended to protect supplements
and natural remedies.

To do that, HR.2900 must be "brought up under a regular order" so it can be
fully debated and amended.Right now, it is scheduled to be brought up "under
special rule" which does not allow the amendments!

This Bill was brought out very suddenly-frankly, I think that they are trying
to push it through without the Paul attachment or the Emord attachment to make
sure he gets no 'credit'- as well as because both parties are owned by the
FDA! –Kathy[



Posted July 13, 2007 by Kathy at [link to groups.yahoo.com]

QUOTE
Re: [The-Unveiling] Re: Ken- spiritual progress/Joan of Arc

Hundreds of eyewitness accounts? How do we know? Did they get them on the internet? Did they write best selling books? What? there were no bookstores? no newspapers? no tv? but we know from the histories "later" written that there were
hundreds of witnesses. I am not saying you are "wrong". I am saying that history, as we are fed it, may be very contrived. Someday, those time machines will no doubt force us to do a few rewrites!

I'm in the middle of this FDA battle- but when it's done, I'm gonna look for the info I had read about Joan.

The House voted through the FDA expansion without the protections for alternatives and nutrients. I admit I "lost it" a bit today. Left a message on Pelosi's machine that she is truly "Madame" Speaker since she is running a whoreHouse. Also said something about her sucking FDA dick.......

Oh well! the WhoreHouse and Senate have to 'compromise' now- between the two bills passed- so we have our work cut out. Ralph drove down to Wash DC today
and is meeting with Ron Paul's people and others - Then on to new attack plan...

Oh by the way- I got a letter today stating that surveyors for the North American HIghway are surveying over the land owned by "Mt Carmel"- the Waco people who were shot up by the govt. Since this road was planned decades ago, they must
have known they "needed" the property when they attacked. – Kathy



Posted by Lorae July 13, 2007 at [link to groups.yahoo.com]

QUOTE
Re: Ken- spiritual progress/Joan of Arc

Oh WOW! Madame Pelosi! I LIKE that! And the symbolism of the freeway through Waco. IN OUR FACES!

The good side to all of this is that they are becoming quite transparent, either because they consider themselves invincible or because they have run out of time and are desperate... or both.
SNIP END QUOTE

Last Edited by Anka on 08/28/2010 07:51 PM
"We shall no longer hang on to the tails of public opinion, or to a non-existent authority, on matters utterly unknown and strange. We shall gradually become experts ourselves in the mastery of the knowledge of the future." ~ Wilhelm Reich
ShadowDancer (OP)

User ID: 287857
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08/28/2010 07:47 PM
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Re: FOOD
I will have to make some Birch beer or Root beer-at a fair recently we went to there was a vendor who had wooden kegs with taps and different drinks like that-he sold a metal cup with the drinks and you could then get refills of grape, orange, sarsaparilla, birch or root beer, the rest of the day for no more $...it was very good


Top notch waters-filtered, and real sugar, no HFCS, and very good flavors.


My neighbors and I trade with each other-to enhance variety-

and I prefer unpasteurized milk-otherwise it gives me problems-and so does most of my family

I prefer to buy from neighborhood stands or pick my own or grow it-and I definitely do not feel comfortable trusting proven liars-

and profiteers

seeking war while declaring false peace

Screaming terrorists while strip searching citizens

All a massive scam-unfortunate so many fearfully follow---

Thankfully, others are showing great courage-

and I hope they are fortified daily

Take care in all ways hf

and excuse my ire on this subject-

seems the wicked nanny loves Hegelian dialect...and uses it regularly to herd the people accordingly
************************************
fortitudo et spes
************************************

When Japan happened I responded: "The Excrement Has Impacted the Rotary Oscillator." and clearly it has.
Thread: The Excrement Is Striking the Rotary Oscillator
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Ego et Dominus sumus amici"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ego et mea umbra
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

'Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electric stimulation of the brain.’
- U.S. government mind manipulator, Dr. Jose Delgado, Congressional Record, No. 262E, Vol. 118, 1974
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Realeyesrealizereal​lies. C.

Thread: GIRD uP as GRID Collapses

Thread: Eugenics 101 (Page 27)

Thread: Frankenfoods for YOU (Page 2)

Thread: I Do Not Consent

Thread: FOOD

Thread: Cern Power___Colder than Space

Thread: Hempilation Compilation Contemplation
Thread: Harmonics and Healing (Page 35)
Thread: Sarah's Nightmare (Page 10)
Thread: Destination Maccabees
Thread: Let's Play a GAME

Thread: Throat Singing
Anka

User ID: 593875
United States
08/28/2010 07:47 PM

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Re: FOOD
Now is the time to e-mail your senators about this bill.

PUSH BACK NOW OR SAY "GOODBYE" TO FOOD FREEDOM!

Go here:
[link to salsa.democracyinaction.org]

Viral Video: Dr. Rima on Stopping S.510
[link to www.youtube.com]

Natural Solutions Foundation
The Voice of Global Health Freedom™
www.HealthFreedomPortal.org
www.HealthFreedomUSA.org
www.GlobalHealthFreedom.org

August 25, 2010

Permalink: [link to www.healthfreedomusa.org]


NEW News...

Keep S. 510 from controlling our Food and Our Lives! Click here:

[link to salsa.democracyinaction.org]


Dr. Rima on Stopping S.510
[link to www.youtube.com]

They say "no person's life, property or liberty are safe when Congress is in session..." and to that we must add, nor is our right to grow and use our own food, as families and communities. We are happy to report that some of our friends in the Freedom Movement, including Citizens for Health and Downsize DC have joined in S.510 Push Back, also setting-up S.510 Action Items urging their supporters to message the US Senate. We applaude their efforts and remind everyone that we need hundreds of thousands of emails flooding the Senate if we are to keep our Food Freedom! Please help by widely forwarding this eblast and Dr. Rima's hard-hitting S.510 video~

For more than a year, the plan to capture - and kill - clean, local, organic, independent and safe farming has been wending its way through Congress, supported by the party in control of the White House and Congress, as well as the too-big-to-fail AgraBiz industry.

Last year, the devastating HR 1279 passed the House, although working with patriots like Ron Paul, We the People put up a good battle, delaying it for quite a while. However, at the end of the day, a good battle followed by a loss is still a loss.

Then the field of battle shifted to the US Senate's version, S.510, where we've held the forces of Big Agra and Big Govt at bay for nearly a year...

During one memorable weekend in November 2009 over 150,000 emails to Senators tied the bill up in the HELP committee with its chairman, Senator Tom Harkin remarking about the "thousands" of emails. He promised that the (sic) food safety bill would not impose Codex Alimentarius restrictions in the USA.

We didn't believe him and when, in February, Senator McCain introduced the "companion" so-called "dietary supplement safety" bill, S.3002, we mobilized the Health Freedom "Mouse Warriors" and in one month and one day, and several hundred thousand emails, later the Senator was forced to withdraw support for his own bill, opining (and whining) that its major points could be covered by (hiss, hiss...) S.510!

Then in mid-July, the congressional majority leadership issued its "short list" of bills it wanted to push to passage before the August recess. The good news was: S.510 was not on the list!

The bad news is that the bill's handlers could "sneak it through" the Senate as a "unanimous consent" non-controversial matter when the Senate returns in September!

That is, unless opposing Senators put a "hold" on the bill, which means it cannot be treated as non-controversial. On the way to recess, the Senate HELP committee reported the bill out, without the amendment from Senator Tester that would have offered a bit of protection to family farms and ranches, home and community gardens, farmers markets...

Please send the Action Item below to your Senators, demanding that the "hold" the bill! How does a Senator do that? The Senator has one of his or her staff members call the staff of the Senate Cloak Room (yes, there still is a Senate Cloak Room, but now it has a staff! Ah, bureaucracy! The staff is responsible for non-controversial, unanimous consent bills. That's where this bad bill stops!
"We shall no longer hang on to the tails of public opinion, or to a non-existent authority, on matters utterly unknown and strange. We shall gradually become experts ourselves in the mastery of the knowledge of the future." ~ Wilhelm Reich
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1082320
Germany
08/28/2010 08:13 PM
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Re: FOOD
Is Rima Laibow COINTELPRO?
[link to HATER]



[link to educate-yourself.org]

"Hi Ken,

Just noted that Rima Laibow and company demanded equal time... sounds like the kettle calling the pot black... Her husband, General Stubblebine is associated with Col. John Alexander, Ret. and Col. Michael Acquino, Ret. in a company called PsychTech or PsiTech... A review of the various web sites shows all of them involved in non-lethal weapons and mind-control, both during their military careers and subsequently.

Victoria Lacas is the wife of Col. John Alexander - see article below... If you goggle Stubblebine/Alexander/Acquino or any combination thereof, it's obvious what their true agenda is. Victoria also writes a film review column in a Las Vegas publication; the column is called 'The Devil's Hammer.'

DL "





SD, you should be ashamed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1072312
United States
08/28/2010 08:17 PM
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Re: FOOD
Have food?


Gold and silver are nice, but one cannot eat them.




Property is great but if one is starving or has few options-food is CRITICAL


S. 510 must be stopped-Codex Alimentarius is already being implemented and this Bill will cause many to die prematurely-Please research the Bill and see this is about GLOBAL GOVERNACE and universal contamination of our food.
healthfreedomusa.org

I am as sincere as I could ever be-your life does depend on it-Hopefully, more will become proactive in protecting their food and their options to produce their own food. If not, starvation will be a learning experience, but options will no longer exist...then

[link to www.youtube.com]



 Quoting: ShadowDancer

you can only store so much guys...and it will run out..research the local Native American food sources and storage techniques, then start practicing gathering and processing ...or acquire a taste for human flesh...
ShadowDancer (OP)

User ID: 287857
United States
08/28/2010 10:49 PM
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Re: FOOD
Is Rima Laibow COINTELPRO?
[link to HATER]



[link to educate-yourself.org]

"Hi Ken,

Just noted that Rima Laibow and company demanded equal time... sounds like the kettle calling the pot black... Her husband, General Stubblebine is associated with Col. John Alexander, Ret. and Col. Michael Acquino, Ret. in a company called PsychTech or PsiTech... A review of the various web sites shows all of them involved in non-lethal weapons and mind-control, both during their military careers and subsequently.

Victoria Lacas is the wife of Col. John Alexander - see article below... If you goggle Stubblebine/Alexander/Acquino or any combination thereof, it's obvious what their true agenda is. Victoria also writes a film review column in a Las Vegas publication; the column is called 'The Devil's Hammer.'

DL "





SD, you should be ashamed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1082320

No way, no how


I deal with facts and personally if stubblebine and rima are making some money-so what-as they did mortgage their house to fund their truth-and I find from my own studies way before i ever followed them-Nanny world was going forward with their plan and Kissinger and rockefeller stated this in the planned parenthood ads of the early 70s...they would use food and water to CONTROL THE PEOPLE

And they are aren't they?

It is in many of their speeches or their written words in books...and I have followed the facts long before I ever read anything from rima and others like her-Unlike some, I prefer to think for myself and find it rather easy to do-

I can evaluate and assess the facts-I have, and I have insight many do not naturally find...

So IOW, your assumptions shall be proven false and the shame will be your own as you discount those who speak clearly and without bias-or PROFIT

I find it odd how some 'regular ACs' find it so important to support corporate thieves

Why they will come to a forum with conspiracy as a focal point, and actually try and protect these companies they have no connection to...ODD isn't it???

Maybe if they signed in without the anonymous aspect and see if they can stand behind their words...doubtful

or they will try and MUDDY the waters, confusing as many as possible...forgetting they are already oiled and gassed...getting them ready for the flames-


Let the forge be fired-and we will see who is whom...
************************************
fortitudo et spes
************************************

When Japan happened I responded: "The Excrement Has Impacted the Rotary Oscillator." and clearly it has.
Thread: The Excrement Is Striking the Rotary Oscillator
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Ego et Dominus sumus amici"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ego et mea umbra
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

'Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electric stimulation of the brain.’
- U.S. government mind manipulator, Dr. Jose Delgado, Congressional Record, No. 262E, Vol. 118, 1974
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Realeyesrealizereal​lies. C.

Thread: GIRD uP as GRID Collapses

Thread: Eugenics 101 (Page 27)

Thread: Frankenfoods for YOU (Page 2)

Thread: I Do Not Consent

Thread: FOOD

Thread: Cern Power___Colder than Space

Thread: Hempilation Compilation Contemplation
Thread: Harmonics and Healing (Page 35)
Thread: Sarah's Nightmare (Page 10)
Thread: Destination Maccabees
Thread: Let's Play a GAME

Thread: Throat Singing
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1082708
United States
08/28/2010 11:55 PM
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Re: FOOD
I deal with facts........
 Quoting: ShadowDancer


Really??? LMAO!!!!

You say that, yet you CANNOT SHOW ME facts! You state that the law can be interpreted in whichever way you desire....but there is just nothing even remotely resembling "cannot grow your own food". I'd love to see a lawyer debate on your behalf on this.

One year from now, five years from now...my garden will be perfectly safe. No gun wielding cops are going to come get my pumkins!

And please give me a link to an article that states that cops went into a grocery store with guns ready to take milk. LMAO!!!!!

Wow, I needed a good laugh!!!!
a passing cloud

User ID: 616505
United States
08/29/2010 02:50 AM
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Re: FOOD
"I know too many who will throw the sabre down on these kind of things...and no matter the outcome...it will be tragic for many"

what, specifically, are these "many" going to do when federal agents come to their doors? if they surrender their weapons [assuming they even have any], they will lose their "illegal" garden. if they DON'T, they better be damned ready to have a shootout with law enforcement. that's a pretty big leap....from organic farmer to freedom fighter.

i respect anyone who can MAKE that leap, but only because not many can.
ShadowDancer (OP)

User ID: 287857
United States
08/29/2010 12:10 PM
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Re: FOOD
I deal with facts........


Really??? LMAO!!!!

You say that, yet you CANNOT SHOW ME facts! You state that the law can be interpreted in whichever way you desire....but there is just nothing even remotely resembling "cannot grow your own food". I'd love to see a lawyer debate on your behalf on this.

One year from now, five years from now...my garden will be perfectly safe. No gun wielding cops are going to come get my pumkins!

And please give me a link to an article that states that cops went into a grocery store with guns ready to take milk. LMAO!!!!!

Wow, I needed a good laugh!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1082708

Still riding the Assclown train I C


[link to www.youtube.com]






[link to www.youtube.com]




Not a war-what a tool you are

Hopefully, it is not your career as that will not be profitable in the end-

Orthorexia-research that

The new diagnosis-for those who prefer to eat healthy foods...even cattle die from GMO/GE crap...the monsatan seeds of death-FRANKENFOODS


If sheep die from BT cotton, what does it do to your body???Or transgenic foods that enter and the plants DNA and your DNA mix-KNOW one another...

No worries 1082708

I will avoid the Frankenfoods and all their cloned chit-you will have more for yourself-no worries-plenty for you to eat out there 1082708

You can have my share, and my immediate family, and my extended and even my surviving grandsons...you can have it-and some friends of mine said you can have their share of Frankenfoods too

Research yourself from here on out-as I am not our puppet nor do I care if you want to eat the chit-eat away


Likewise, if you have nothing substantial to discredit other than emotives-I will ignore you-

Must be rough having to be full grown and hiding like a wayward tony eh???



as far as monsatan-they use that company in many business ethics courses college level-and one I took was Harvards...so name call well-so you can attempt to be credible with BS
************************************
fortitudo et spes
************************************

When Japan happened I responded: "The Excrement Has Impacted the Rotary Oscillator." and clearly it has.
Thread: The Excrement Is Striking the Rotary Oscillator
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Ego et Dominus sumus amici"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ego et mea umbra
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

'Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electric stimulation of the brain.’
- U.S. government mind manipulator, Dr. Jose Delgado, Congressional Record, No. 262E, Vol. 118, 1974
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Realeyesrealizereal​lies. C.

Thread: GIRD uP as GRID Collapses

Thread: Eugenics 101 (Page 27)

Thread: Frankenfoods for YOU (Page 2)

Thread: I Do Not Consent

Thread: FOOD

Thread: Cern Power___Colder than Space

Thread: Hempilation Compilation Contemplation
Thread: Harmonics and Healing (Page 35)
Thread: Sarah's Nightmare (Page 10)
Thread: Destination Maccabees
Thread: Let's Play a GAME

Thread: Throat Singing
ShadowDancer (OP)

User ID: 287857
United States
08/29/2010 12:19 PM
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Re: FOOD
written article about goat cheese makers and their kid keeps having his computer confiscated


and we have yet to pass S 510 but Codex is already being implemented


I guess our corporate state doesn't want people to control their own food chain. That's odd. Or not:

Raids are increasing on farms and private food-supply clubs—here are 5 tips for surviving one
When the 20 agents arrived bearing a search warrant at her Ventura County farmhouse door at 7 a.m. on a Wednesday a couple weeks back, Sharon Palmer didn't know what to say. This was the third time she was being raided in 18 months, and she had thought she was on her way to resolving the problem over labeling of her goat cheese that prompted the other two raids. (In addition to producing goat's milk, she raises cattle, pigs, and chickens, and makes the meat available via a CSA.)

But her 12-year-old daughter, Jasmine, wasn't the least bit tongue-tied. "She started back-talking to them," recalls Palmer. "She said, 'If you take my computer again, I can't do my homework.' This would be the third computer we will have lost. I still haven't gotten the computers back that they took in the previous two raids."
[link to www.correntewire.com]


If you are literate:
In a complex federal district court ruling, Judge Mark W. Bennett refused to grant a motion by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to dismiss a lawsuit filed against the agency by the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund (FTCLDF) and eight other named plaintiffs. More at link
[link to www.farmtoconsumer.org]



how many do you need, comprehension difficulties or dyslexia???
Something more current without video perhaps???
Aug 27th and again I want to highlight that S 510 has YET to be passed and already we are having issues-the feds stealing the kids 3rd computer(they already grabbed 2 from him before the 3rd)...Oh real terrorists-ewww I am so scared the fat in the milk is going to hurt me-(sarcasm)

I need big Bother to wipe my own ass...think again-they need their ass wiped and they steal plenty and still are incompetent and corrupt to the BONE

[link to www.examiner.com]

FDA denies the fundamental right to choose your own food

Recently, the Food and Drug Administration has been cracking down on dairy farmers whose raw, unpasteurized milk crosses state lines to out of state consumers. An enforcement action out of Philadelphia against an Amish farmer is one example of a trend.

Advocates of raw milk and its health properties are fighting back and in February of 2010, a group of raw milk consumers and sellers joined with the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund in filing a lawsuit claiming that the FDA’s regulations (21 CFR 1240.61 and 21 CFR 131.10) prohibiting raw milk for human consumption in interstate commerce are unconstitutional.
c'mon 108 where are your facts and assurances guaranteed-tool

You cannot make enough money in your lifetime to make it worthwhile-for the PRICE you will pay by promoting deceit-it is on you-you are now known as well.
************************************
fortitudo et spes
************************************

When Japan happened I responded: "The Excrement Has Impacted the Rotary Oscillator." and clearly it has.
Thread: The Excrement Is Striking the Rotary Oscillator
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Ego et Dominus sumus amici"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ego et mea umbra
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

'Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electric stimulation of the brain.’
- U.S. government mind manipulator, Dr. Jose Delgado, Congressional Record, No. 262E, Vol. 118, 1974
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Realeyesrealizereal​lies. C.

Thread: GIRD uP as GRID Collapses

Thread: Eugenics 101 (Page 27)

Thread: Frankenfoods for YOU (Page 2)

Thread: I Do Not Consent

Thread: FOOD

Thread: Cern Power___Colder than Space

Thread: Hempilation Compilation Contemplation
Thread: Harmonics and Healing (Page 35)
Thread: Sarah's Nightmare (Page 10)
Thread: Destination Maccabees
Thread: Let's Play a GAME

Thread: Throat Singing
ShadowDancer (OP)

User ID: 287857
United States
08/29/2010 12:21 PM
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Re: FOOD
I deal with facts........


Really??? LMAO!!!!

You say that, yet you CANNOT SHOW ME facts! You state that the law can be interpreted in whichever way you desire....but there is just nothing even remotely resembling "cannot grow your own food". I'd love to see a lawyer debate on your behalf on this.

One year from now, five years from now...my garden will be perfectly safe. No gun wielding cops are going to come get my pumkins!

And please give me a link to an article that states that cops went into a grocery store with guns ready to take milk. LMAO!!!!!

Wow, I needed a good laugh!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1082708



laughing yourself to death yet or waking up to the ugly truth-you are a slave to the man


No more dancing?-I thought you filled out the dance card...still laughing?-or have you turned to crying as I would think selling out your fellow neighbor would be guilt inducing


Oh well...c'est la Vie!

Last Edited by ShadowDancer on 08/29/2010 01:13 PM
************************************
fortitudo et spes
************************************

When Japan happened I responded: "The Excrement Has Impacted the Rotary Oscillator." and clearly it has.
Thread: The Excrement Is Striking the Rotary Oscillator
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Ego et Dominus sumus amici"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ego et mea umbra
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

'Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electric stimulation of the brain.’
- U.S. government mind manipulator, Dr. Jose Delgado, Congressional Record, No. 262E, Vol. 118, 1974
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Realeyesrealizereal​lies. C.

Thread: GIRD uP as GRID Collapses

Thread: Eugenics 101 (Page 27)

Thread: Frankenfoods for YOU (Page 2)

Thread: I Do Not Consent

Thread: FOOD

Thread: Cern Power___Colder than Space

Thread: Hempilation Compilation Contemplation
Thread: Harmonics and Healing (Page 35)
Thread: Sarah's Nightmare (Page 10)
Thread: Destination Maccabees
Thread: Let's Play a GAME

Thread: Throat Singing
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1082708
United States
08/29/2010 01:43 PM
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Re: FOOD
Again LMAO at the first video. Which store is it? where? All the video shows (with the DOOM music playing LOL), is cops, (maybe staged for the video on behalf of the conspiracy hat wearers), sneaking around a warehouse. Proves nothing at all! And really, what is with the DOOM music? Was the security system pre-programmed to use DOOM music when activated? LOL.
And the fact that "live security video" is shown on the screen, something that had to be superimposed on the screen after the fact. Hmmm, something seems a bit off with that.

The second video...the girl is quite cute.

You are very fearful of circumstances that most likely will not happen.
Again, please post here next year. Post again sometime in 2015. Keep coming back and posting this stuff, and check in with me.
My pumpkins and tomatoes are safe in my garden.

If cops show up in YOUR garden, please..PLEASE let us all know.

Now, the raw milk issue:

Drinking raw milk is legal in every state. So is buying it. What's not legal, except in eight states (Arizona, California, Connecticut, Maine, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, New Mexico and Washington), is selling it to the general public. The other 42 states have a variety of bans. In some, it can be sold only on the farm. In others, it can be sold only as pet food. Some outlaw its sale altogether. Federal law prohibits transporting it for sale -- even from a state where it's legally sold -- across state lines. So, yes, there have been some raids on people like this, but again, since it's against the law, and has been for a while, having a video about how the feds are cracking down and "not letting us drink our milk"
is BS. Should the law be changed? Probably yes, but for NOW, it's the law.

Seriously, what's with the DOOM music??? LOL
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 287857
United States
08/29/2010 05:54 PM
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Re: FOOD
whimsical music?


to match the errant laughter

[link to www.youtube.com]



I also know how monsatan has been buying up seeds from everyone for the last 30+yrs-and are now going out of their way to patent ANY seeds from ANYWHERE that are not yet patented-to tie the food up and restrict all except their sterile seeds-most with Round Up ready in their DNA...thereby usually killing all other plants, including easily grown Native plants-so only monsanto can own "life".

They went after the law years ago so they could run robber baron over all especially heirloom seeds that would grow wonderfully-modifying them enough to lock in their 'formulary'



Raw milk has less troubles for many than pasteurized crap-their processes are tedious and the big producers have deep pockets to keep their tyranny intact-even pharmaceuticals being incorporated into many foods or genetically modified crap-that is not proven safe although they were able to mount a hefty legal attack on any who try to live-as the farmers are being taken to court regularly-and how can a farmer control open air pollination???But amazingly the big, DEEP pockets of tyranny slice away-desiring the entire LIONS share of the market-even in the 70s when Willie Nelson was trying to publicize the plight of the farmers-

the club of rome and kissinger mouthpiece have said it clearly-are they lying too?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 287857
United States
08/29/2010 06:23 PM
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Re: FOOD
We urge you to use the Action Item below to tell your Senators:

"Your constituents and others all around the US, in our determination to protect the right of every American to clean, healthy, clearly labled, unadulterated food, have brought strenuous objection to degrading our food supply and implementing the well-presented, but very dangerous Codex HARMonziation which the corrupt and dangerous FDA, USDA and other industry-led agencies are so eager to present to us as faits accompli.

Instead, we look to you to preserve our right to clean food, labeled to indicate pesticides, adulterants, GMOs and other dangerous ingredients and to make sure that S. 510, the mis-named "Food SAFETY Bill" is defeated through either inaction or a successful Nay vote and any similar bill is, likewise, defeated."

We remind you, among the dangers facing our food and our freedom is the FDA's determination to destroy our access to high potency nutrients, although guaranteed by the 1994 Dietary Supplements Health and Education Act (DSHEA). Various failed bills and amendments to do so, along with the FDA's illegal Codex activities constantly threaten this freedom of choice.

We need to let our Senators know will be monitoring their activities on these issues closely. Please continue to the Action Item below.


[link to salsa.democracyinaction.org]

And it will not end

A tomato from California or from a nearby city garden? For the local food movement, there's no question—cut those food miles.

But journalist and self-described "liberal curmudgeon" Stephen Budiansky challenged this wisdom in a New York Times op-ed last week, declaring that local food is "not an end in itself, nor is it a virtue in itself." His article, titled "Math Lessons for Locavores," set off a wildfire of debate online about what it really means to eat local as well as the other aspects of sustainability, from seasonality to community.

Budiansky himself cultivates a backyard garden, but he cautions against locavore sermonizing and reminds us that the tomatoes traveling from California to our houses mean little compared to the refrigerators humming in our kitchens 24/7:

[link to www.theatlantic.com]

That describes Budiansky's own modus operandi in a nutshell. His op-ed focuses almost exclusively on the question of how much fossil fuel is used to grow and ship food, and concludes that the amount of energy used is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Sure, and because eggs weigh less than the grain it costs to feed the factory farm hens that produce them, it was presumably quite energy efficient to ship those 380 million factory farmed eggs that have since been recalled for possible salmonella contamination from Iowa to fourteen other states.

But energy efficiency is only one small part of the equation when you add up the reasons to buy local. Other factors include: flavor and nutrition; support for more ecological farming practices; reduction of excess packaging; avoidance of pesticides and other toxins; more humane treatment of livestock and workers; preservation of local farmland; spending one's dollars closer to home; the farmers' market as community center, and so on.

Budiansky totally ignores these issues, except to challenge the assumption that sustainable agriculture is better for the environment than industrial agriculture. After establishing the folly of food miles, he goes on to note:

Other favorite targets of sustainability advocates include the fertilizers and chemicals used in modern farming. But their share of the food system's energy use is even lower, about 8 percent.

Again with the energy usage! Geez. As if that were our big beef with fertilizers and chemicals. What about soil erosion, pollution, loss of biodiversity, the rise of superweeds and antibiotic-resistant infections, the dead zones in our oceans and rivers, exposure to contaminants, and all the other environmentally disastrous consequences of 'conventional' farming?
[link to livingliberally.org]


It is not just raw milk-it would be mild compared to what it really is


NAIS as well-I do not want further regs from USDA, FDA, or any of their corrupted groups as I see many more food problems now then 50 yrs ago, 40 yrs ago, 30 yrs ago, 20 yrs ago...etc...and I find their desire to make a 1world nanny state is NEVER about safety(except their own as they are robber barons)

It is always about DOMINATION AND CONTROL

and it has been shown time and time again-


I am curious why you must defend them-or do you have a portfolio with them-profitting???

As this article discusses:

Defending the rights and broadening the freedoms of family farms and protecting
consumer access to raw milk and nutrient dense foods.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

USDA Urged To Heed Producer Testimony and Scrap The National Animal Identification System
Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund Says Enforcing Current Regulations Is Sufficient For Disease Traceability

Falls Church, Virginia (July 9, 2009) – The Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund is urging the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) to actually listen to and honor the comments offered by the nation’s livestock producers during its multi-city listening tour on the National Animal Identification System (NAIS) and scrap the program.

“A common thread that ran through much of the testimony was that existing prevention and tracking programs for animal diseases together with state laws on branding and the existing record-keeping by sales barns and livestock shows provide the mechanisms needed for tracking any disease outbreaks,” said Pete Kennedy, acting president of the Farm-To-Consumer Legal Defense Fund.

“NAIS is simply not needed,” he added. “The USDA continues to confuse industry support for efforts to identify and eliminate animal diseases with support for NAIS, despite the fact that some 80 percent of the people who testified during the hearings testified against the department’s animal identification program,” he said.

Kennedy’s comments came as the USDA wrapped up its 14-city listening tour with a session in Omaha last week. During the tour more than 1,600 people attended listening sessions; almost 500 people testified; and more than 400 of those stated their opposition to NAIS.

“Even the U.S. Congress has grown impatient with the NAIS,” commented Fund board member Taaron Meikle, “with Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro calling continued investment in NAIS ‘unwarranted.’ ”

De Lauro’s comments came in a release explaining the cuts in the 2010 Agriculture Appropriations Bill her subcommittee recommended.

Instead of pouring more money and effort into NAIS, the Fund is urging Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack to re-focus the nation’s animal disease and food safety efforts on several alternatives including:

* Decentralizing the livestock industry and encouraging local, diversified farms, which would increase animal health, food security, and food safety;
* Increasing inspections of imported animals and agricultural products and barring the entry of animals from countries with known disease problems; and
* Improving enforcement of existing laws and inspections of large slaughterhouses and food processing facilities, including unannounced spot inspections at those large facilities.

The Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, along with six of its members from Michigan, last year filed suit in the U.S. District Court – District of Columbia against the USDA and the Michigan Department of Agriculture (MDA) to stop the implementation of NAIS. An amended complaint was filed in January 2009 with the Fund adding a member from Pennsylvania as a Plaintiff.

The MDA has implemented the first two stages of NAIS – property registration and animal identification – for all cattle and farmers across the State under the guise of its bovine tuberculosis disease control program. MDA’s implementation of the first two steps of NAIS was required, in part, in exchange for a grant from the USDA.

The Fund’s suit asks the court to issue an injunction to stop the implementation of NAIS at both the State and Federal levels by any State or Federal agency. If successful, the suit would halt the program nationwide.

The Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund defends the rights and broadens the freedoms of sustainable farmers, and protects consumer access to local, nutrient-dense foods. Concerned citizens can support the Fund by donating or by joining at www.farmtoconsumer.org or by contacting the Fund at 703-208-FARM (3276).

The Fund’s sister organization, the Farm-to-Consumer Foundation, works to promote consumer access to local, nutrient-dense food and support farmers engaged in sustainable farm stewardship. Visit their website www.farmtoconsumerfoundation.org.

Contacts:

Taaron G. Meikle
Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund
703-537-8372
taaron.g.meikle@gmail.com

Brian Cummings
Cummings & Company LLC
214-295-7463
brian@cummingspr.com

[link to www.farmtoconsumer.org]


Regardless of where one stands-if one is human they need food and water


Water is critical to growing food...and last year the UN declared that "...CLEAN WATER IS NOT A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT..." but they feel the need to regulate my milk, or allow industrial waste(fluoride) to be added everywhere...charging the people to be poisoned by the likes of them???


n the testimony that followed, seventy of the seventy-two speakers spoke out against NAIS, she said.

One speaker, Judy McCullough, a Moorcroft, Wyoming rancher and president of the Independent Cattlemen of Wyoming, said: “Producers are not interested in being the guinea pigs for a huge, expensive, intrusive government experiment.”

Another speaker, Donley Darnell, a New Castle, Wyoming rancher, called NAIS “deeply flawed,” adding, “USDA’s assertions that NAIS will provide benefits for animal health are not supported, and actually contradict basic scientific principles. Disease must be addressed on a species-specific basis, with an understanding of the causes of the different diseases and the ways the diseases are transmitted.”

It was much the same at Tuesday’s hearing in Jefferson, Missouri, which was attended by more than 330 farmers and consumers. At that session 54 of the 55 people who spoke were against the implementation of NAIS, according to Tim Gibbons of the Missouri Rural Crisis Center.

“It was constantly reiterated during the morning and afternoon sessions that USDA should target dollars responsibly toward ‘real’ food safety issues like increased inspections, testing and restricted imports, and not implement a program that is unnecessary and unwanted,” Gibbons said.

“Increasingly and overwhelmingly, the people who speak at these sessions are vigorously opposed to NAIS,” said Pete Kennedy, Acting President of the Farm-to Consumer Legal Defense Fund. “Their message is clear: NAIS is not the animal health or food safety solution this country needs.”

Instead, Kennedy again urged Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and the USDA to re-focus the hearings on several alternatives to NAIS including:

* Decentralizing the livestock industry and encouraging local, diversified farms, which would increase animal health, food security, and food safety;
* Increasing inspections of imported animals and agricultural products and barring the entry of animals from countries with known disease problems; and
* Improving enforcement of existing laws and inspections of large slaughterhouses and food processing facilities, including unannounced spot inspections.
[link to www.farmtoconsumer.org]

seems they are working it awfully hard to be "benign"

HR 2749 - Food Safety Enhancement Act of 2009

HR 759 – Food and Drug Administration Globalization Act of 2009

HR 814 – TRACE Act of 2009

HR 875 –Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009

I strongly encourage support for HR 778-sign the petition
[link to www.ftcldf.org]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/29/2010 06:37 PM
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Re: FOOD
“Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

— The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/29/2010 06:43 PM
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Or how about the salmonella outbreak due to shipping eggs all over the country vs just going to the local farm???

How has mass profit and regs helped that???

Small farmers can deliver safer food than agribusiness


"The chickens are coming home to roost" could be the tale told of the massive egg recall because of a salmonella outbreak. The federal government, because of lobbying efforts by corporate megafarms, has been waging a war against local food and small farmers for years. Somehow the concept of centralized, mechanized, factory food production is supposed to be healthier and safer for consumers.

Through government regulations the costs for small farmers are constantly on the increase as the rules are set to make a local farmer meet the same “safe food” standards that the corporate farms have to meet. But the standards have little to do with food safety and more to do with fees and forms and government bureaucracy.
[link to www.citizen-times.com]



[link to www.makeherbalmedicines.com]
ShadowDancer (OP)

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08/29/2010 06:51 PM
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I deal with facts........


Really??? LMAO!!!!

You say that, yet you CANNOT SHOW ME facts! You state that the law can be interpreted in whichever way you desire....but there is just nothing even remotely resembling "cannot grow your own food". I'd love to see a lawyer debate on your behalf on this.

One year from now, five years from now...my garden will be perfectly safe. No gun wielding cops are going to come get my pumkins!

And please give me a link to an article that states that cops went into a grocery store with guns ready to take milk. LMAO!!!!!

Wow, I needed a good laugh!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1082708

Did you read any of the information or is this just an exercise with button pushing?


1082708?


August 24, 2010

Calling Oregon Department of Agriculture's policies misguided, owners of the Siskiyou Crest Goat Dairy on Monday voluntarily renounced their state-sanctioned Grade A creamery dairy license.

In addition to giving up the highest ODA rating achievable for an Oregon dairy, Michael "Mookie" Moss and his father, Roger, co-owners of Boone's Farm half a dozen miles south of Jacksonville, launched a herd share program — allowing customers to own a portion of the herd — to make it easier for them to provide raw milk and other raw dairy products.
Related Stories

* Owners' move is a first, officials say

"As a community-based dairy, we are proud to have met and exceeded Oregon's Grade A standard," Michael Moss said. "However, the licenses that earned us a Grade A standard came at a cost."

Although they were allowed to sell raw dairy products before giving up their license, he described the red tape as too much for even a goat to chew through.

Moreover, when offering their wares at a local farmers market, they often had to either trade their product or simply give it away, he said, noting the restrictions were such they invariably turned away five to 10 customers.

"We have been saddled with regulations that have inhibited our ability to provide our community with a product that is very much in demand, a product we very much believe in and stand behind, that product being raw milk and cheese," he said.

Department officials, noting the regulations are in place to safeguard food safety, say the Mosses' decision, while unusual, is legal, as long as the customer is also the owner of the farm animal.

In fact, herd share program participants buy into the herd and assume ownership of an animal as well as the products it produces, Michael Moss said. The national Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund helped the dairy by drawing up legal contracts for herd-share customers, he added.

"Right now, the public's ability to receive farm-fresh raw milk is greatly hampered by state and federal agency regulations," he said. "These agencies treat raw milk as a dangerous and hazardous substance."
[link to www.mailtribune.com]


While they allow WAYWARD tony HAYWARD company BP to dump mercury-300 lbs in 2007 in Lake Michigan...imagine the horror of me drinking unpasteurized milk...OMG


omgdog

Will the horrors stop?


Oh, the stupid it burns

It burns!!!!
************************************
fortitudo et spes
************************************

When Japan happened I responded: "The Excrement Has Impacted the Rotary Oscillator." and clearly it has.
Thread: The Excrement Is Striking the Rotary Oscillator
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"Ego et Dominus sumus amici"
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Ego et mea umbra
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'Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electric stimulation of the brain.’
- U.S. government mind manipulator, Dr. Jose Delgado, Congressional Record, No. 262E, Vol. 118, 1974
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Realeyesrealizereal​lies. C.

Thread: GIRD uP as GRID Collapses

Thread: Eugenics 101 (Page 27)

Thread: Frankenfoods for YOU (Page 2)

Thread: I Do Not Consent

Thread: FOOD

Thread: Cern Power___Colder than Space

Thread: Hempilation Compilation Contemplation
Thread: Harmonics and Healing (Page 35)
Thread: Sarah's Nightmare (Page 10)
Thread: Destination Maccabees
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Thread: Throat Singing
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/29/2010 06:56 PM
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In 2000, the Wyoming Legislature slaughtered (pun intended) the existing meat and milk statutes in Wyoming law, and adopted the federal "Food Rule." Among many unintended consequences of this action is the ludicrous situation where the Food Rule is so broad that it includes private home kitchens as being subject to state regulation, and food prepared in a home kitchen is technically illegal to consume. This has been pointed out by Dr. Joseph R. Geraud, Professor of Law (emeritus) in a paper he wrote addressing Wyoming Food Safety Laws and Regulations.

A literal interpretation of statutory definitions as applied in the interpretation of the Food Safety Rule results in the conclusion home kitchens are included. While such a conclusion may be deemed absurd, it is sustainable based upon the words utilized. More absurd is the fact that literal application of the statutory definition of "establishment" prohibits eating such food in the home in which prepared.

When you consider the idea that in Wyoming it is illegal to consume food made in your own kitchen, maybe it doesn't seem so far out to grasp the fact that it is currently illegal to buy fresh, whole milk from your neighbor, or even drive to purchase it in one of the surrounding states and serve it to your family? Maybe it doesn't seem so crazy that someone who owns a cow or a pig can butcher it themselves, or take it to the local custom meat processor and have it cut up for their own use-this is perfectly safe-but the minute you might sell a tube of hamburger to anyone else-that is absolutely illegal and unsafe? What? If the meat is safe for the person who owns the animal, why is it not safe for someone else? If all home butchered or custom meat is unsafe, why doesn't Wyoming law prohibit us from eating animals we own?

The point is that these laws and regulations have absolutely nothing to do with food safety, and everything to do with protecting big business from competition from local producers. The Wyoming food safety laws, adopting all of the federal requirements in their ridiculous and over-reaching scope, are specifically designed to prevent Wyoming food dollars from being spent in Wyoming to benefit Wyoming families and Wyoming agriculture. The end result, something in the neighborhood of 97% of Wyoming's rich agricultural bounty pours over our state borders and fills the treasuries of gigantic corporate interests, forming the tax base for other states.

Since Colorado passed legislation that allows their citizens the right to seek out and enjoy the healthy benefits of real milk, they have gone from 1 to 50 raw milk dairies in just a couple of years.

These dairies can't keep up with the demand. Conservative estimates are that there are at least 300 to 400 Wyoming families driving great distances, paying high prices, and breaking the law to obtain a product they believe is far safer, more wholesome, and possessing great benefits especially for those with gastro-intestinal problems, allergies, asthma, and just because it tastes great. [link to farmtoconsumer.org]

NAIS is still threatening as are many of their "safety" bills

As DU is all over the war zone from illegal arms-
and they are worried about what exactly???

Agenda 21 is very real-Iron Mountain report is very real...and monsatan is always consuming any and all who could possibly compete.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/29/2010 06:59 PM
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[link to video.google.com]


Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/29/2010 07:06 PM
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[link to www.theorator.com]
******************
Dr Johnathan Wright had guns drawn on his health food store...research the truth

It is evident a much bigger plan is being worked...one that is firmly planned and a host of contingency actions to herd people LIKE CATTLE!

EGREGIOUS


*********************



[link to www.scribd.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1083118
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08/29/2010 07:13 PM
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Educational bump for ACORN NUTS !
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/29/2010 07:24 PM
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Why are entangling alliances being promoted so heavily???Why must a new babel need to be formed or created???




Why should we even have to fight to protect our Constitution and our sovereignty???


How is global governance DANGEROUS???


How does Codex Alimentarius, NAIS, CAFTA(previously NAFTA), WTO, 1 world ORDER of CONTROL serve them??? It DOES NOT SERVE US.

Notice the name changes they flip on the public to obfuscate the truth and try and avoid the masses speaking out...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/29/2010 07:26 PM
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So the arrest of the woman in France for selling Vitamin C and going through a trial due to this does not concern the ignorant-but those with eyes can clearly see where this is heading.

This case in France is very real just like guns drawn on organic food stores over unpasteurized milk
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/29/2010 07:33 PM
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Educational bump for ACORN NUTS !
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1083118

I do not affiliate with Acorn nuts-


I love acorns to eat


but the hellcare plan is right in line with Codex, NAIS, CAFTA, RFID and so on and the pimp and hoe videos with a corn nuts acting illegally-trying to inform 'citizens' how to make profit off minors...great group eh?

It is one big ball of wax and only the truly ignorant denying it after looking at all the pieces do not matter as they will be content to eat plastic margerine or fluoridated dannon water or cloned meat and genetically modified frankenfoods that have NEVER been PROVEN safe...but they know to laod most the bases-as most are trusting bigBother
Anka

User ID: 593875
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08/29/2010 07:58 PM

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bump
"We shall no longer hang on to the tails of public opinion, or to a non-existent authority, on matters utterly unknown and strange. We shall gradually become experts ourselves in the mastery of the knowledge of the future." ~ Wilhelm Reich
flyingfish

User ID: 918082
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08/29/2010 08:06 PM

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I bought 800 tacos from Taco Bell last month and put them in an extra-large, well-sealed plastic bin last month. I think I'm ready for TEOTWAWKI.
 Quoting: EffenJerk

rockon
Anonymous Coward
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08/29/2010 08:21 PM
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bump
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2010 01:52 AM
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Re: FOOD
RE: milk - I AGREE that the law needs to be changed, so that if people are so inclined, they can buy and drink whichever kind of milk they desire. I AGREE, ok?? **sheesh** However I think the current laws preventing this should be looked at first, as this would make passage of alternate laws more difficult. Once a harsher law is passed it will make it harder.

Very cool btw about the Colorado milk farms.

My original point was that you are not able to prove that s510 includes such language as to preclude home gardening, and still cannot provide that which does not exist, regardless of the manipulation of the language.

The law you cite in Wyoming is simply a poorly worded law. It says something such as "food prepared in a private home may not be used for human consumption in an establishment", or some such wording. Here's the thing; What does 'establishment" mean? If you go by the federal definition (which this law does):

The term includes any factory, warehouse, or establishment (including a factory, warehouse, or establishment of an importer) that manufactures, processes, packs, or holds food. Such term does not include farms; restaurants; other retail food establishments; nonprofit food establishments in which food is prepared for or served directly to the consumer; or fishing vessels (except such vessels engaged in processing as defined in section 123.3(k) of title 21, Code of Federal Regulations).

Which, CLEARLY, does not include your kitchen. You are using very strong glasses to read between the lines there.

* In CA, it is the law that you must have a permit to wear a halloween mask.
* In Riverside CA, it is illegal to carry food in public between 11-1pm.
* In Wyoming, it is illegal to take photographs of rabbits between Jan-April.

I don't see anyone enforcing these, do you?

EGGS:
Or how about the salmonella outbreak due to shipping eggs all over the country vs just going to the local farm???

How has mass profit and regs helped that???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 287857


So, you just said that the act of shipping the eggs caused the outbreak, which is clearly not true. I would be more than happy to go to a "local farm" to buy my eggs and other things, but not everyone has a farm nearby! Show me a "local farm" in the middle of LA where I used to live, and I will eat my hat. The outbreak was caused by the feed used, not shipping.

Here's something for you:
"Howard Magwire of the United Egg Producers, a trade group, said the incidence of salmonella outbreaks in the country's egg industry, which produces 80 billion eggs a year, has dropped in the past decade, thanks to improved industry practices, better state oversight and consumer education."

THAT'S how regs have helped.

Now, about Dr.Jonathan Wright.
Dr Johnathan Wright had guns drawn on his health food store...research the truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 287857


Dr, Wrights place was NOT a "health food store". it was a clinic dealing in the marketing of L-tryptophan, an illegal substance (among others), and also was performing non-standard and misleading tests. FDA agents did indeed break down a door, only when the people inside refused to open it when ordered to. One agent did have a gun drawn, since they had no idea of who was there or if they were dangerous, but the gun was never pointed AT anyone, and was holstered when they saw it was a safe situation. Two weeks later, the state pharmacy board suspended the pharmacy's license, an action taken only when the board feels that public health may be endangered.

Sherman L. Cox, Assistant Secretary for Licensing and Certification for the state of Washington, noted that the For Your Health pharmacy "was manufacturing a number of drugs and was distributing these drugs not only to patients on prescription but also to other doctors around the country for use in their offices. . . . In addition, the pharmacy was not properly licensed as a manufacturer and the drugs were being made under unsafe conditions." The pharmacy subsequently gave up its license and operated as a health-food store.


So, saying GUNS (plural) is incorrect. One gun. Not pointed at anyone. Also, it was not a health food store; they changed to a health food store AFTER this event.

Again, you say to research the truth, yet you are not capable or willing to do so.