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Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF

 
yep...itsme
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08/30/2010 10:52 AM
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Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Responding in another thread, I have decided to create a series of small how-to's that you can build upon for survival/disaster preparations. It is not an end-all-be-all list of the Gods, and its not intended to be a definitive treatise of THE best information available. I am simply informing you of my findings, and my experience. Your mileage may vary, and please; lets keep this thread clean or I will cease to post.

UPDATED 09/10/10

Here are links to the other post(s) in this series:
Survival Preparation - #1 in a series: The Bug out Bag
Thread: Survival Preparation - #1 in a series: The Bug out Bag
Survival Preparation - #2 in a series: Water - How much do I need?
Thread: Survival Preparation - #2 in a series: Water - How much do I need?


Top Myths of when SHTF:

1)SHTF = total Mad Max style meltdown where the world reverts to the dark ages and we're all running around in gun battles.
SHTF could be anything from a chemical spill to TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) stuff.
Don't get locked into thinking a SHTF event is only ________. SHTF is not one specific, monolithic event. Realize most SHTF scenarios result in the same outcome, be it short term or indefinitely. That’s why it’s vital you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Like many areas or this particular skill set, TRAINING is key!

2) "Gear trumps skills." False. I've slowly learned that over time. Gear is cool and fun and I'll likely never revoke my membership in GearWhore of the Month club. That said, focus on building your skill sets. Cool gear without the ability to use it is not overly valuable.
As Darwin said “It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change”. A strong part of what we are as humans depends on our use of tools. There is a reason that expert archers gave way to untrained masses of soldiers with primitive firearms.

3) "The perfect gun for SHTF is ___________." No such thing. Guns are tools. No one tool is perfect for each and every job. And if your SHTF is a tornado a gun isn't going to do you much good anyway….it might keep you and your safe till the chaos subsides though. Remember, there are certainly some bad choices. EG : Shotguns, and some pistols, etc.
I'd rather carry a single small frame rifle with removable/collapsible stock with easy to obtain ammo (223, 762x39, 30 designed for defense. Its not “gun is the pwn" attitude, it’s just for weight, size, and accessibility of ammo in trades, savaging, moving my ammo to a replacement weapon, etc. When I first began my prepping, I used a Marlin Camp 45 to go with my Colt 45. Same Ammo, and used the same mags. Same with my Marlin Camp 9 and my 9mm side arm., I also got a Thompson TC with a TON of barrels so I could use almost any round I could find. from 22 short all the way to 50 cal bp.
My shotgun has interchangeable barrels also, including a black powder one. My Paintball gun can shoot metal balls and darts now. The key is to think outside of the box. In addition, I have purchased chamber adapters for many of my rifles to use various calibers as I may chance upon ammo. Do I cart all this stuff? Nope, but its accessible at a moment’s notice and I built it up over time to save cash. Ebay and Craigslist are great sources, but I travel to as many Gun Shows as I can afford to attend.

4) "At the first hint of trouble I'm bugging out." Unless you have personally owned land, that is fully stocked and currently guarded 24/7 the idea that you are going to hop into the family truckster and live in a state park is likely a pipedream. I'm not saying you shouldn't bug out, but rather that a bug-out is a very complicated and difficult process and not one to be taken lightly. Bugging out should only be considering if your current local is dangerous to your bio (failout, NBC, etc), burned down, or you run out of food/water in the area.

5) "I have a "sniper rifle" and will engage targets at 1000 meters and become a one man army."
There are LOT’s of reasons why this approach is dumb. If your SHTF is an ice storm you are committing what we call murder. Unless the SHTF event has destroyed all governments/legal systems and there's no chance of them ever returning you are going to be creating a lot of problems for yourself (it's going to be real hard to claim "self defense" at 1/2 a mile) In a Mad Max scenario sniping might be tactically sound but then again engaging anything that moves within 1000 meters of you might not always be the best course of action. This is all before we get into the fallacy of being a one man army or even being capable of making 1000 yard shots (which most people aren't). It’s not ideal but a sniper is equal to a trebuchet in SHTF. A sniper can pin you in your house, trapping you from your well, your garden, inside with your waste, fearful to look out windows. And a 1000 yard shot is not hard if you got plenty of ammo and don't have to make hits on the first shot. Any high powered rifle will do, even your kids 243 or a surplus WWI mosin nagant. True most people wouldn't be so determined nor have the skills to get you before you knew but never the less it can happen. Even the humble M4 carbine is rated out to 270 meters.

6) "_______________ is the best place to live for SHTF." Unless you can tell the future, know exactly where the bad situation is going to unfold and how it will unfold you can't possibly make that claim. There are places statistically more likely to be better than others, but you can't declare ____________ to be the best because you can't tell the future.

7) "My drinking buddies and I agree something is up. We're a MAG".
Negative. Unless you've clearly spelled out who/what your group's leadership is going to be, your responsibilities, how financial expenditures are going to be handled, training schedules, how disputes are going to be resolved, etc you are not a MAG. These are people with whom you trust your life. Trust is built over time, not a couple beers. Don't assume because you think a group will function like ABC that the other people in the group feel the same way.

I've had this conversation with some other preppers. They're like "We all need to band together, move as a group for safety". So I say "Sure I'll fight beside you. I just need 6 gallons a day of water for me the wife and the kid (don’t think I'd leave them behind do you?), 3600 cals a day cause I will be marching in armor, and 2000 each for my wife and kids. I also need equal share of all looted gear and ammo as usable. And...". It hit home pretty quick that there’s a reason there is a supply train behind armies. Most people can't carry enough on their person to live long with weapons, ammo, and armor.

In all honesty if I'm bugging out the armor, all ammo besides a few mags, and such are left behind. All I'm carrying is my expanded BoB.
Everything else goes into my prepped cart for pulling along.
Just my .02 Your mileage may vary

Last Edited by yep...itsme on 09/10/2010 11:41 AM
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
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My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2010 11:22 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
OP is correct. As it is impossible to prep for all eventualities, one must find a way to know in advance which SHTF situation is actually coming.
yep...itsme (OP)

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08/30/2010 11:40 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
OP is correct. As it is impossible to prep for all eventualities, one must find a way to know in advance which SHTF situation is actually coming.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 471789



Well, unless and until your second-sight is perfected the best you can hope for in prepping is to build, plan, hold family practice/training scenarios and to be vigilant.

I have a close friend that stays locked and loaded 24/7...that will just burn you out in my opinion, and makes for a lonely, paranoid lifestyle.

Look, the reality is that you will always need the basics:
1) Water
2) Food
3) First-Aid
4) Light
5) Protection
6) Heat/Fire source

Now, there are ALWAYS 'what ifs" Don't drive yourself crazy! Close family friends in NOLA that dealt with Katrina learned to keep the gas tanks full in their cars and trucks, they had a get out plan and contingency routes.

People tend to know what issues face them where they live: Earthquakes, Tornado's, Chemical Spills and Petrochemical venting... Think about where you are and the challenges you face. How many ways out do you have from your neighborhood or city? Is your fuel tank full? Do you have a change of clothes and shoes to get you home?

Keep it simple!
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
-------------------------------------
My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2010 12:30 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Well, the basics are important, sure. But they will only get you so far, and its hard to prepare for all eventualities. How is one supposed to know if they are going to need a gasmask, a geiger counter, or a canoe.

I've been prepping for a few years now, and I'm growing more and more convinced that the most important element is going to be community organization skills. No one will be able to go it alone for very long, no matter what form TSHTF takes.
yep...itsme (OP)

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08/30/2010 12:59 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Well, the basics are important, sure. But they will only get you so far, and its hard to prepare for all eventualities. How is one supposed to know if they are going to need a gasmask, a geiger counter, or a canoe.

I've been prepping for a few years now, and I'm growing more and more convinced that the most important element is going to be community organization skills. No one will be able to go it alone for very long, no matter what form TSHTF takes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 471789


Correct and exactly my point!

But, what if you live near a nuke power plant? A dosimeter would be an important addition to your bag.

What about if you lived near a petro-chemical plant? I would have a mask and suit in my gear, and plastic sheeting and duct tape in my home.

Live near a river that historically crests well above flood stage? I would have a small row boat and a small gas motor.

See? You are correct about organization...just don't (at first response)count on anyone but yourself.
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
-------------------------------------
My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
nongboo

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08/30/2010 01:56 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Any survival plan is better than no plan at all, thats how I see it, especially if your plan has an exit stratagy of a major city if you live in one, thats the last place you want to be if the shit hits the fan because the vast majority of people living in major cities do not have any plan at all and no survival skills, if some major catastrophe were to strike they would just sit in place and wait for the government to save them, if the situation was bad enough and chaos ensued your chances of escape would be slim to none. pennywise
VICTORY IS TO SURVIVE AND DEATH IS DEFEAT!
yep...itsme (OP)

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08/30/2010 07:19 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
bump
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
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My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2010 11:41 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
When TSHTF, I plan on laying low if possible until the worst of the chaos has passed by, and after that, to tentatively poke my head out and start making some contacts with other survivors.

But communication poses a problem. It is very possible that all telephones, cell phones, electricity lines, and internet lines will be nonfunctional. One possible substitute for these would be a set of good walkie-talkies that run on rechargeable AA batteries and a solar charger for AA batteries.
yep...itsme (OP)

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08/31/2010 11:47 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Any survival plan is better than no plan at all, thats how I see it, especially if your plan has an exit stratagy of a major city if you live in one, thats the last place you want to be if the shit hits the fan because the vast majority of people living in major cities do not have any plan at all and no survival skills, if some major catastrophe were to strike they would just sit in place and wait for the government to save them, if the situation was bad enough and chaos ensued your chances of escape would be slim to none. pennywise
 Quoting: nongboo


Correct, and well said. I hate to use an already over-used example, but when Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, few were ready, fewer still had ANY idea what to do, and most simply waited for help to arrive.

One should have an exit strategy from ALL of your and the families primary locations. If you have kids at school, how many ways (including through peoples homes and yards) do you know to get to them, or them to meet you at a rally point?

You may know a gazillion ways to and from your work, but what about your wifes/husbands best friends home or work?

See, what I am building on here is this: If you have a number of primary locations that you or your family is typically located when not at home/work (friends, mall, bar you get the idea), you need to know those areas as well, and you MUST (even basically) get the members of your family on board or it becomes a liability of command and control. I will talk more about Communication and Extended Family Survival in another paper.

Last Edited by yep...itsme on 08/31/2010 11:48 AM
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
-------------------------------------
My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2010 11:58 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
ive been watching 'the colony' on discovery channel and its pretty good so far

its not totally accurate cuz they cant let anyone kill each other.....which in real life during high stress situations is a good possibility

but its good on showing what might or could happen

6 people tried to defend thier stuff from a mob of 30.....didnt go so well

1 of them got abducted from the compound and nobody knew for awhile......then she was ransomed for supplies

im surprized to see how well they are doing with what they have aroudn them but it doesnt look very fun....esp the part where they have limited food and water.....nevermind medical supplies and sanitary items

and im someone who fantasizes about having to live in a mad max world with nothing and it really hit home how dificult it would be either alone or with a group

im in fla so we have TSHTF scenario every year with hurricanes so ive been experimenting with different stuff

but its usually just power is out.......and its usually a small local area

but ty for this post......so far its the best ive read

adapt, improvise, overcome

its not what you have its what you DO with what you have

that goes for your brains too
yep...itsme (OP)

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08/31/2010 12:29 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
ive been watching 'the colony' on discovery channel and its pretty good so far

its not totally accurate cuz they cant let anyone kill each other.....which in real life during high stress situations is a good possibility

but its good on showing what might or could happen

6 people tried to defend thier stuff from a mob of 30.....didnt go so well

1 of them got abducted from the compound and nobody knew for awhile......then she was ransomed for supplies

im surprized to see how well they are doing with what they have aroudn them but it doesnt look very fun....esp the part where they have limited food and water.....nevermind medical supplies and sanitary items

and im someone who fantasizes about having to live in a mad max world with nothing and it really hit home how dificult it would be either alone or with a group

im in fla so we have TSHTF scenario every year with hurricanes so ive been experimenting with different stuff

but its usually just power is out.......and its usually a small local area

but ty for this post......so far its the best ive read

adapt, improvise, overcome

its not what you have its what you DO with what you have

that goes for your brains too
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 720114


Thanks! Aand I am glad that you train and prep. The more of us there are, the better!
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
-------------------------------------
My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
korp

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08/31/2010 12:34 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
I'm curious, have you posted this someplace before? The reason I'm asking is because when I got p to the part where you brought up the ice storm, a lightbulb went off in my head, and reading the rest of it it felt like I had read something extremely similar before someplace else.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Join my village and earn some cash on the side. Watch the intro video and see if you're interested! [link to www.varolo.com]
yep...itsme (OP)

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08/31/2010 12:47 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Yes. I post often and on my blog as well as my friends blogs. I have been doing these types of posts for years.

I have seen my work reposted (with and without permission) and really, even though I would prefer at least a link back to my blog, as long as the information gets out there...
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
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My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
korp

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08/31/2010 12:50 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Yes. I post often and on my blog as well as my friends blogs. I have been doing these types of posts for years.

I have seen my work reposted (with and without permission) and really, even though I would prefer at least a link back to my blog, as long as the information gets out there...
 Quoting: yep...itsme


It might have been on your blog then. I use Stumbleupon (add on for firefox) and one of my preferences is survivalism, so I get to a lot of site like that. Works out well, I find a lot of stuff I never would have found otherwise.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Join my village and earn some cash on the side. Watch the intro video and see if you're interested! [link to www.varolo.com]
Menace2society
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08/31/2010 12:57 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Keep in mind guys,....the first causality in battle is the plan.
research local indigenous food sources, then practice gathering and storing, then practice some more. or...( here it comes) acquire a taste for human flesh!
phizzycyst

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08/31/2010 12:59 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
I'm digging this survival prep series...kutgw!
korp

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08/31/2010 01:00 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Keep in mind guys,....the first causality in battle is the plan.
research local indigenous food sources, then practice gathering and storing, then practice some more. or...( here it comes) acquire a taste for human flesh!
 Quoting: Menace2society 1072312


You're last tip, I'd never do that. Well, maybe if a group of people attacked me and I won and I was starving, but I would never kill someone just to eat them, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

I do have a few books of all the local edible/medicinal plants in my area. Have beaches a 5 minute walk away, so I can fish, a lot of woods, so there is also game. I haven't practiced storing my own food yet, keep meaning to but never get around to it.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Join my village and earn some cash on the side. Watch the intro video and see if you're interested! [link to www.varolo.com]
yep...itsme (OP)

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08/31/2010 01:07 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Keep in mind guys,....the first causality in battle is the plan.
research local indigenous food sources, then practice gathering and storing, then practice some more. or...( here it comes) acquire a taste for human flesh!
 Quoting: Menace2society 1072312


That is why you drill, train, drill and then drill some more!
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
-------------------------------------
My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
yep...itsme (OP)

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08/31/2010 01:08 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Keep in mind guys,....the first causality in battle is the plan.
research local indigenous food sources, then practice gathering and storing, then practice some more. or...( here it comes) acquire a taste for human flesh!


You're last tip, I'd never do that. Well, maybe if a group of people attacked me and I won and I was starving, but I would never kill someone just to eat them, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

I do have a few books of all the local edible/medicinal plants in my area. Have beaches a 5 minute walk away, so I can fish, a lot of woods, so there is also game. I haven't practiced storing my own food yet, keep meaning to but never get around to it.
 Quoting: korp



Good! You have a solid grasp of your surroundings. Build on that, and start to implement a plan.
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
-------------------------------------
My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2010 01:14 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Keep in mind guys,....the first causality in battle is the plan.
research local indigenous food sources, then practice gathering and storing, then practice some more. or...( here it comes) acquire a taste for human flesh!


You're last tip, I'd never do that. Well, maybe if a group of people attacked me and I won and I was starving, but I would never kill someone just to eat them, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

I do have a few books of all the local edible/medicinal plants in my area. Have beaches a 5 minute walk away, so I can fish, a lot of woods, so there is also game. I haven't practiced storing my own food yet, keep meaning to but never get around to it.
 Quoting: korp

Its not a tip...its what those who stored a closet full of food will have to do when they run out, and you will eventually run out, got a 2 year supply? what happens in 2 years?...
U.S has a ton of readily available food sources , true some needs processing, but it's there for the taking...
" The more you know the less you need"
yep...itsme (OP)

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08/31/2010 01:14 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
I'm digging this survival prep series...kutgw!
 Quoting: phizzycyst



Thanks! I have made a post that will list the links to the entire series of posts, and will add the links as they are built.
I asked for a pin of that paticular thread, but it appears the mods prefer to pin 'different' ones instead.

Please keep reading, and let me know if there are any questions.
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
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My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
nongboo

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08/31/2010 02:04 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Keep in mind guys,....the first causality in battle is the plan.
research local indigenous food sources, then practice gathering and storing, then practice some more. or...( here it comes) acquire a taste for human flesh!


You're last tip, I'd never do that. Well, maybe if a group of people attacked me and I won and I was starving, but I would never kill someone just to eat them, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

I do have a few books of all the local edible/medicinal plants in my area. Have beaches a 5 minute walk away, so I can fish, a lot of woods, so there is also game. I haven't practiced storing my own food yet, keep meaning to but never get around to it.
 Quoting: korp

You'd be surprised what you would do if you are hungry enough, hell, their are people in N. Korea that are turning to cannibalism because the only alternative is tree bark. If the worst case senario were to come true like a large meteor impact, supervolcano, solar flare, or some such thing that would stunt plant growth and kill off large numbers of animal life, well, you do what you gotta do, or die, thats the other alternative. pennywise

Last Edited by nongboo on 08/31/2010 03:10 PM
VICTORY IS TO SURVIVE AND DEATH IS DEFEAT!
yep...itsme (OP)

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09/01/2010 01:46 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
In a moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing.
Theodore Roosevelt


Emergencies exist in many forms. From simple short term power outages, to home fires that can displace you from your place of residence for a few days or forever. Weather takes its toll in many different styles. I have been on roads that have been closed in the middle of a trip due to ice and snow, and my three day pack made the seventeen hour dead-stop in freezing weather bearable. Because of planning and training, I had food, water, blankets and a car candle as well as entertainment. As a nine year old, my family was completely snowed in once, and lucky for us Dad had just filled the heating fuel tank and the pantry was stocked. In the 90’s, VERY heavy rains flooded my neighborhood and we were without any power for four days. The next block over the dark lasted for almost twice as long! I had food, lights and security.

Survival isn’t always about a rifle, a pack and evading a group of zombies! Sometimes it’s as simple as a hot beverage and a roll of toilet paper!

In the case of a true, solid map changing emergency, it’s often good to have plans to evacuate your primary residence if need be and if there are no other options. For my family and I, we really don’t have many options due mainly to extended family in the area among other ‘issues’. I have wondered how realistic a “bug out” is for me and my family, and what our options may be, so, here we go…

If I am anything, I am resourceful. Transplant me into the suburbs, the inner city, doesn’t matter, I’ll make it with whatever I can. Don’t get me wrong, I’d prefer to be way, way out as long as I have resources. The problem is that there is a REASON there are no houses out in the middle of the desert: it’s very difficult to live out there.

In most cases, places where there are no people are places that people don’t want to be, usually. Essentially what I am saying is that you must find a happy medium. There is typically an optimum place to be. That place is not in the most remote, desolate place in the country. It probably isn’t the most lush, green valley either because that’s probably where everyone will try to go.

Many people when confronted with someone that intends to ‘bug in’ within the suburbs simply say, “Dude, You’re dead!.” They’ll simply dismiss the idea and walk away. There are definable disadvantages to a suburban bug in when compared to a more rural, cached safe-house.

Let’s first examine why the suburbs are there. They are there because there is a city nearby. The city is noisy and crowded and often stinky and crime ridden, however, the city has JOBS! The suburbs are there because the city has jobs but is often a less than optimal place to live. However, WTSHTF, the cities are not what they were. Literally, they are no longer cities, they can become “Shities”. They will become nothing but miles of human garbage and filth. Massive sewage backups when the processing machinery and lift pumps stall, and no one to police the piles of garbage that will grow….and that includes the two-legged variety.

So now, after the emergency event the reason for the creation of the ‘burbs is gone. But now, many of the people will be gone too. It could be also true that your neighbors left and you’ll have new neighbors (squatters) and I’m betting they won’t be interested in helping you trim your hedge, or secure your perimeter.

The biggest problem with the suburbs is that you will be a target for looting. One way this can be fixed by trashing your own place. Board up the windows and spray paint the crapola out of it. Make it look like the last place you’d want to either loot or squat in. Break out your association’s manual (assuming you have a home owners association or group). Take it step by step. Whatever they say not to do, that’s probably what you want to do. All joking aside, a nice looking place amongst a bunch of trashed out places will be encircled and attacked repeatedly until they (the looters) get everything they want. Make it look uninviting and uninhabitable. If there are FEMA “X”’s painted on other doors, paint one on yours. Cheap WalMart rattle cans should be in your stores anyway. (yet another discussion for another day)

Since there may be many other people around, probably from the war zone of overflowing toilets formerly known as “The City”, you’ll need security. Typically that means a firearm. A 12 guage, a pistol and a battle rifle is a great start. While a guy out in the wilderness could really get along with much less armament, in the suburbs, I’d go with a top level but drop the need for the longer range arms (30-06, etc) and trade it for another AR or Mini14 or other high rate of fire firearm, maybe even an additional large caliber pistol. Also, add 150% to the ammo stocks. You might very well need it. The bottom line is, use what you have, but look for better. You might already have dads hand-me-down .22, which might be fine for shooting the odd squirrel or other pest (read into this what you will), but believe me, some piece of crap comes calling and you answer with a clean M4 that you have trained with…you win. I recently picked up two M4 lowers (stripped) for $50 each, new from the mfg. Deals are out there, you simply have to pry yourself away from American Idol or internet porn long enough to actually look!

To those lower receivers, I added a lower parts kit from Colt ($55 each) and MagPul stock and trigger guards, and Ergo grips. Now I have enough completed M4’s in my safes to outfit a fire team if need be. Upper receivers are available in a variety of calibers: 22, 4-10 shotgun, 9mm, 45cal, 50BMG, and 5.56. Others are available, but may need a different lower (think 7.62) I will get further into weapons in a different paper.

I see one of the main difference between a remote bug out and a suburban bug in is that you’ll have to live inside almost the whole time. Outside the human wolves will be looking for anything they can devour. I think the thing I would do is make sure I had a basement but make it look like I didn’t. No windows, no outside access and then once TSHTF, modify the inside so there appeared to be no access. Retreat to there and just stay there until it’s over. Essentially, find a crack in the rock and stay there until the danger passes.

In my opinion, suburban bug in as a temporary measure only. It is doable if you have a basement or a bunker you can hide in. Maybe even above ground will work if the house is brick and you can securely board up the windows and the doors are heavy enough to secure. Once things start coming back, you’d probably be OK. If you store enough food and energy to get you through the emergency you can then come out of hiding and start working with whomever or whatever gets things under control. However, in a TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) situation, I do not see a suburban bug in as doable. Eventually you will run out of water, power and food. Even if you have 10 years worth, someone with bigger guns and more ammo will eventually find you and take it. Once the wolves see the light and smell the food cooking, you may be screwed. The same dangers exist in the wilderness. Ever sit by a nice cozy campfire and have someone walk up on you? Your night vision has been compromised, and if someone has encircled your camp, outside the light of the fire, you may never see them! Camp and Home Base security I will cover at another time…these reports are an exercise to get you thinking on your feet.

Another problem is the political implications. In the suburbs you really do have a good chance of getting a one way ticket to camp FEMA. Now, before you start to think that I am sitting here at my computer wearing a Tin-Foil hat, understand the way Governments exercise MANDATORY EVACUATIONS… the do-gooder Government WILL round people up. It may not be nefarious in nature, but they will require you to leave because they don’t think you have the resources to survive, even if you do. And if you show them you do, they will confiscate your accumulated supplies, AND during Katrina, weapons were taken (illegally I might add!), I’m sure, “for the greater good.”

In the initial stages staying in your suburban bug-out location will require hiding from the authorities.

If they are painting black Xs on the doors, after they evacuate people, be sure to have the same spray paint and paint yours the same one night when they get close. Then, if they still bust down the door, hide. If they find you, shoot to kill. They are invaders. One of the things you’ll find is the wolves will find ways to get army “costumes” and police “costumes” and they con people into giving their stuff up to “The Authorities”. They’ll be looking for you. I am not stretching the truth. Look into history and learn from it.

They can do ME’s and confiscations in most areas if it's a declared state of emergency. Honestly, many State, county and city governments can do a lot of things if it's a state of emergency - including prohibiting open carry/transportation of firearms, prohibiting the sale of gas/ammo/guns/alcohol, instituting a curfew, placing restrictions on where/when you can drive. In some areas these things are automatic when the government declares an emergency while in others they are simply an option.

These sorts of laws are called a "state of exception." It's a political science term that describes a process which circumvents limits on state power and abuse. Basically, this provision permits the state (in times identified as "crisis moments") to act outside the constraints of law, permitting the state to adopt extreme measures in its own defense. It’s implied that in a crisis - rights are a luxury we cannot afford nor can the state trust citizens to exercise those rights "properly." It seems the "state of exception" has its historical roots in British colonial law.

And for those of you who will read my part about confiscation of weapons and then cite "The Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006" which was passed after New Orleans got sued for tons of money because they confiscated guns from people after Katrina (check the NRA website for more info on that)...as far as I can tell from The Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006, it only prohibits the confiscation of weapons by officers being funded by emergency funds...so, I guess that means the National Guard - not necessarily local cops. So, the local cops will take your guns and FEMA will take your food...and then ship you off to a camp….again, for your own good I am sure.

If you doubt some of this, look up the State Emergency Health Powers Act, for one, then look up you particular States emergency powers laws under martial law, and then try and find your cities emergency city plan for evacuation or control and tell me then how you feel.

So, after all this, if you think good times are returning, go ahead and bug in and hunker down to wait it out. But, if you think its TEOTWAWKI bug out! You have been listening to me hard about contingency plans, haven’t you? I don’t think growing a garden in the back yard will be possible, at least for long. Also you have to plan for weather. Its fine to pack seeds, but what if TSHTF in the dead of winter? There are people out there that will not want you to make it and will destroy whatever you create (or take it for themselves). …and who can blame them? When it comes to life or death situations: Always cheat. Always win.

So, in summary, suburban bug in, long term, TEOTWAIKI...forget it, unless you own a defunct missle base (my personal goal! lol!)

Short term? It’s doable, and is a optimnal choice if that is where a solid relief effort is staged. People tend to move away from the problem and migrate toward a 'solution'. Again, think about Katrina. Houston took a large number of the problem individuals as refuges and the metro crime rate actually went up!

The problem if you decide to Bug-In then arises when you get a temporary YOYO (Your On Your Own) and you’re doing OK, but, now you realize, "OOPS! This is a long term situation!". Now what are you going to do? Are you are trapped? The roads will be a mess. There will most likely be people gunning for anything that moves. The only way you can probably get out is with an armored vehicle and lots and lots of gas. But, where are you going to go? River bridges will either be destroyed or require BIG crossing fees, or you’ll just get ambushed and looted.

Seriously, if you think it might possibly be TEOTWAWKI, you’re better off bugging-out than sleeping in a cardboard box because someone took your home.

We will talk about leaving home for greener pastures in another installment.

Thanks again for reading, and as always-
More Later...

Last Edited by yep...itsme on 09/01/2010 05:18 PM
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
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My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
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nongboo

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09/01/2010 03:17 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Very nice man, keep it coming. Alot of people could use this info, whether or not they put it into practice is up to them, but its good that you're putting it out there. pennywise
VICTORY IS TO SURVIVE AND DEATH IS DEFEAT!
Burt Gummer

User ID: 989406
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09/01/2010 03:20 AM

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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
When TSHTF, I plan on laying low if possible until the worst of the chaos has passed by, and after that, to tentatively poke my head out and start making some contacts with other survivors.

But communication poses a problem. It is very possible that all telephones, cell phones, electricity lines, and internet lines will be nonfunctional. One possible substitute for these would be a set of good walkie-talkies that run on rechargeable AA batteries and a solar charger for AA batteries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 471789


CB Radios....solar panels and portable antenna.

Abundant and easy to use.

10 meter hams also useful....but require license.
BUT....who cares if TEOTWAWKI anyway...TPTB will have bigger problems than your illegal set.

Last Edited by Useless Cookie Eater on 09/01/2010 03:21 AM
Anonymous Coward
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09/01/2010 03:56 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
bump
yep...itsme (OP)

User ID: 912389
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09/01/2010 09:41 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Very nice man, keep it coming. Alot of people could use this info, whether or not they put it into practice is up to them, but its good that you're putting it out there. pennywise
 Quoting: nongboo


Thank you, I hope it helps someone!
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
-------------------------------------
My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
yep...itsme (OP)

User ID: 912389
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09/01/2010 09:42 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
When TSHTF, I plan on laying low if possible until the worst of the chaos has passed by, and after that, to tentatively poke my head out and start making some contacts with other survivors.

But communication poses a problem. It is very possible that all telephones, cell phones, electricity lines, and internet lines will be nonfunctional. One possible substitute for these would be a set of good walkie-talkies that run on rechargeable AA batteries and a solar charger for AA batteries.


CB Radios....solar panels and portable antenna.

Abundant and easy to use.

10 meter hams also useful....but require license.
BUT....who cares if TEOTWAWKI anyway...TPTB will have bigger problems than your illegal set.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer



Yes, I will be covering comms in another report soon to follow.
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
-------------------------------------
My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
yep...itsme (OP)

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09/01/2010 05:19 PM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
bump
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
-------------------------------------
My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------
sum_peeps

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09/02/2010 05:34 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Very helpful list of edible plants w/ pictures:
[link to www.wilderness-survival.net]
In survival camp I learned that priorities went in the following order:
1. Shelter
2. Water
3. Fire (may be needed for water)
4. Food
yep...itsme (OP)

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09/02/2010 10:12 AM
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Re: Survival Preparation - #3 in a series: When SHTF
Very helpful list of edible plants w/ pictures:
[link to www.wilderness-survival.net]
In survival camp I learned that priorities went in the following order:
1. Shelter
2. Water
3. Fire (may be needed for water)
4. Food
 Quoting: sum_peeps



Nice, thanks for adding a very useful link! We should talk sum_peeps...if you have an account that can e-mail me here, please do so!

To all, because I have been asked twice now:
The plan for these posts I am making is to have a single thread for each basic issue and a separate thread showing all links to each report including links to external sites for more information and/or suppliers of quality goods.

Basically, I plan on posting the following reports:
1) Water - How much do I need?
{posted and adding currently}
2) Food - What should I carry, what should I cache?
3) Prepping Primer - Where Do I Start?
4) Communications -Staying in touch
5) When SHTF
{posted and adding currently}
6) The Bug out Bag
{posted and adding currently}
7) Personal security - its easier than you think!
8) Clothing
9) Reading material- and you thought school was over!
10)Survival - Can I take my iPod and mini DVD?

So, thats the general idea, and they aren't listed in any particular order. My hope is that if you are already a prepper, I might give you some ideas that you might not have thought of, and if you are new to disaster preparation it can give you a solid foundation to which you can build.

If you like this series and would like me to continue, please help me keep it on page one as the mods seem to often pin everything except something that can actually help someone.

Jessie

Last Edited by yep...itsme on 09/02/2010 10:20 AM
Peace is not the absence of conflict... it is the presence of justice.
-------------------------------------
My Survival thread:
Thread: Survival Preparation: A Series of Threads Designed To Help You Prepare Yourself!
-------------------------------------

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