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MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.

 
Atheist
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MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
Taqiyya and Kitman

Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman.

These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

-

Mohammed HIMSELF used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover.

The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later, and some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed.



Its in the Koran and the Hadith, read it.

Last Edited by Atheist on 09/10/2010 08:31 AM
Atheist
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09/10/2010 08:31 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
This is true.
Atheist (OP)

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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

Last Edited by Atheist on 09/10/2010 08:31 AM
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09/10/2010 08:32 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
awesome...
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09/10/2010 08:32 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
Oh gee, they are lying? Holy shit, lets exterminate them. Or wait, maybe we lie too? No, sorry we never lie.
Time is a great teacher, unfortunately it kills all its pupils.
Atheist (OP)

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09/10/2010 08:33 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
Haddith

Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."

Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.
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09/10/2010 08:33 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
OP - would you always be truthful, open, and honest with your enemies? No. So stfu.
FinalCountdown

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09/10/2010 08:34 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
Oh gee, they are lying? Holy shit, lets exterminate them. Or wait, maybe we lie too? No, sorry we never lie.
 Quoting: easymind




just goes to say....


religious penis




sorry..i just love throwing that out there anytime i get a chance...lol
"Women who seek equality with men lack ambition."
Atheist (OP)

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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
Oh gee, they are lying? Holy shit, lets exterminate them. Or wait, maybe we lie too? No, sorry we never lie.
 Quoting: easymind


Of course non muslims lie, the point of this thread is to educate people that lying to non muslims is allowed in islam, even encouraged for deceptive reasons.
Atheist
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09/10/2010 08:40 AM
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According to Omar Ahmed, Chairman of the Board of CAIR, ‘Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Qur'an should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth’ (Report in the San Ramon Valley Herald of a speech to California Muslims in July 1998; quoted by Daniel Pipes in CAIR: Moderate Friends of Terror, New York Post, April 22, 2002).
Atheist (OP)

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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
If anybody wants a Koran i will upload one.
Atheist
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
According to Omar Ahmed, Chairman of the Board of CAIR, ‘Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 837702


That is a possibility.

I dont think any of the appeasers realize, ISLAM does not share the wests ideals of honesty, tolerance and compassion.

Non believers are banned from MECCA.

This is why the KORAN burning in my opinion has to happen, it will show the world real islam.

The rest of the islamic world has to condemn the violence that will result, otherwise the jig is up in my opinion.
Atheist
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09/10/2010 08:43 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
The same is true of the orthodox Jew.
Not surprising since they believe in essentially the same myth.
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09/10/2010 08:45 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
Oh gee, they are lying? Holy shit, lets exterminate them. Or wait, maybe we lie too? No, sorry we never lie.


Of course non muslims lie, the point of this thread is to educate people that lying to non muslims is allowed in islam, even encouraged for deceptive reasons.
 Quoting: Atheist

The stupidity is growing my friend.
Do you remember who Jesus said was the "Father of Lies"?

Did you know in the koran, Allah calles himself the greatest of all liars?
Atheist (OP)

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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
The same is true of the orthodox Jew.

Not surprising since they believe in essentially the same myth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 108458


Im not going to deny christianity and judaism are full of corruption and liars, im just making a point and trying to help people understand that this is a principle of islam.
Atheist
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09/10/2010 08:47 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
catholic priests never lie

i trust them

fundamental christians never lie

i trust them


this thread is stupid jerkit
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09/10/2010 08:50 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
The same is true of the orthodox Jew.


Im not going to deny christianity and judaism are full of corruption and liars
 Quoting: Atheist



clappa clappa
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
The same is true of the orthodox Jew.


Im not going to deny christianity and judaism are full of corruption and liars
 Quoting: Atheist



clappa clappa
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09/10/2010 08:51 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
The Ten Commandment say to not bare false witness.

This exception to give the green light for lying by islam is why this is a false god/religion. It is wrong. This is the biggest glaring fact to prove their god is false and their belief system is a lie.
Anonymous Coward
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09/10/2010 08:52 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
This is true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1039687

yes it is
Ostria

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09/10/2010 08:52 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
And we Christians are not allowed (this and much more) though we do it from the establishment of Christianity.
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09/10/2010 08:53 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
The same is true of the orthodox Jew.
Not surprising since they believe in essentially the same myth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 108458

Both are seeds of Satan, fighting over a fake inheritance.
Atheist (OP)

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09/10/2010 09:06 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
bump
Atheist
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09/10/2010 09:10 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
Taqiyya and Kitman

Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman.

These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

-

Mohammed HIMSELF used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover.

The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later, and some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed.



Its in the Koran and the Hadith, read it.
 Quoting: Atheist


A muslim is trying to convert my brother at work. The muslim says it is ok to lie to save their asses. Even though it is a commandment to not decieve.
We will pass through the Seven Years or serve God's Will as martyrs.
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are Christians allowed to lie and deceive non-Christians, i it benefits Christianity
Try not. do, or do not. There is no try!

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09/10/2010 09:13 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts"

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
 Quoting: Atheist

thanks for posting this.......many people don't know what the quran states, if they did they would realize what the deception is.........they are migrating to different countries in preparation for their future goal which is to convert all to Islam or kill them.......and that is the TRUTH!!!! .......compared to the bible.......satan is the one that deceives the whole world.......could it be the deception is acceptance of their lies that they are a peaceful religion? Me thinks so!
Atheist (OP)

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09/10/2010 09:15 AM
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Re: MUSLIMS are allowed to LIE and deceive NON MUSLIMS, if it benefits or protects ISLAM.
thanks for posting this.......many people don't know what the quran states, if they did they would realize what the deception is.........they are migrating to different countries in preparation for their future goal which is to convert all to Islam or kill them.......and that is the TRUTH!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 704060


Its a possibility, i admit.
Atheist
Atheist (OP)

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09/10/2010 09:39 AM
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bump
Atheist
Atheist (OP)

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09/10/2010 02:37 PM
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bump

For the evening crowd.
Atheist
rasputin
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09/10/2010 02:57 PM
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Hey Op...While ur at it go read the Talmud. It teaches that it is okay to lie to the goyem which are non Jews....Nice try though but ur propaganda doesnt fly in the face of those hip to your bullshit.
MAX
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09/10/2010 03:09 PM
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SURE EVERYONE LIES, BUT THE KORAN SAYS THAT THEIR GOD SAYS ITS OKAY, THEIR GOD SAYS ITS OKAY TO LIE, THAT IS SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY.HOW DOES THIS FURTHER ALL OF HHUMANITY

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