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Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax

 
Calare
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User ID: 1093567
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09/15/2010 02:10 AM
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Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
[link to thomas.loc.gov]

HR 4646 headed to committee.

1% tax anytime you make a monitary transaction.
Claims to pay off national debt in 7 years.
Claims Income Tax will be repealed in 2017.

I figure this is either going to die quickly, or they'll find some reason in 2016 why we can't repeal Income Tax.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill
Neil Peart
Anonymous Coward
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United States
09/15/2010 02:18 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Good find
-------------------

Summary of Bill...

H.R.4646
Title: Debt Free America Act

SUMMARY AS OF:
2/23/2010--Introduced.
Debt Free America Act - States as purposes of this Act the raising of sufficient revenue from a fee on transactions to eliminate the national debt within seven years and the phasing out of the individual income tax.

Amends the Internal Revenue Code to impose a 1% fee, offset by a corresponding nonrefundable income tax credit, on transactions that use a payment instrument, including any check, cash, credit card, transfer of stock, bonds, or other financial instrument. Defines "transaction" to include retail and wholesale sales, purchases of intermediate goods, and financial and intangible transactions.

Establishes in the legislative branch the Bipartisan Task Force for Responsible Fiscal Action to review the fiscal imbalance of the federal government and make recommendations to improve such imbalance. Provides for expedited consideration by Congress of Task Force recommendations.

Repeals after 2017 the individual income tax, refundable and nonrefundable personal tax credits, and the alternative minimum tax (AMT) on individuals.

Directs the Secretary of the Treasury to: (1) prioritize the repayment of the national debt to protect the fiscal stability of the United States; and (2) study and report to Congress on the implementation of this Act.

--------------------------

Does anyone really think that after 7 years, they'll repeal the individual income tax? Or cease the 1% tax?

It doesn't matter which way you pay for the transaction, they want to tax it...so will it become a bartering market?
Calare (OP)

User ID: 1093567
United States
09/15/2010 02:33 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
I think they're going to try to include bartering as well. It specifies "intangible transactions" which I assume would cover it.

Now having it in a law and enforcing are two different things, but, pardon my short trip to paranoia land, this may be a way for enhanced surveillance. They got Al Capone with the tax code, maybe we're all next?
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill
Neil Peart
starstuff

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09/15/2010 02:36 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Too bad it doesn't include wall street trading. How much of the debt would a 1% tax on all trades pay off?
Anonymous Coward
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United States
09/15/2010 02:38 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
So, if I owe the IRS $2000 and pay by check, I will have to pay a $20 tax on the tax I was taxed ?
Calare (OP)

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09/15/2010 02:42 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Too bad it doesn't include wall street trading. How much of the debt would a 1% tax on all trades pay off?
 Quoting: starstuff



They don't have the text up yet, just a summary, however I would think "financial transactions" would cover wall street. Unfortunately, the paranoid email I got that started me on this track, also said it would cover transactions like moving your own money from checking into savings...

I'm trying to think where to find a figure that would cover what we actually spend a year. I don't think GNP would cover it, and whatever figure I look up is sure to be missing some bits they're going to want to tax.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill
Neil Peart
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
09/15/2010 02:42 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Sunday, June 27, 2010
Free Planet - welcome to your Truman Show - do you stay or do you go?
[link to mikephilbin.blogspot.com]

You don't see it because you're not supposed to - you'd rather pay one or all of the new taxes that didn't exist 100 years ago; it's an American list but you get the idea:

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Business License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
Interest Income Tax
IRS Interest Charges, IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Tax
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Taxes
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales and License Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

For the UK, I guess you could add the TV License Tax, the Digital Receiver Tax and VAT.
Calare (OP)

User ID: 1093567
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09/15/2010 02:44 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
So, if I owe the IRS $2000 and pay by check, I will have to pay a $20 tax on the tax I was taxed ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1087014



That's what it sounds like to me. Also on all of those other nifty checks we send to the government like vehicle registrations, business license, local tax, etc
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill
Neil Peart
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1088717
United States
09/15/2010 02:46 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Good find
-------------------

Summary of Bill...

H.R.4646
Title: Debt Free America Act

SUMMARY AS OF:
2/23/2010--Introduced.
Debt Free America Act - States as purposes of this Act the raising of sufficient revenue from a fee on transactions to eliminate the national debt within seven years and the phasing out of the individual income tax.

Amends the Internal Revenue Code to impose a 1% fee, offset by a corresponding nonrefundable income tax credit, on transactions that use a payment instrument, including any check, cash, credit card, transfer of stock, bonds, or other financial instrument. Defines "transaction" to include retail and wholesale sales, purchases of intermediate goods, and financial and intangible transactions.

Establishes in the legislative branch the Bipartisan Task Force for Responsible Fiscal Action to review the fiscal imbalance of the federal government and make recommendations to improve such imbalance. Provides for expedited consideration by Congress of Task Force recommendations.

Repeals after 2017 the individual income tax, refundable and nonrefundable personal tax credits, and the alternative minimum tax (AMT) on individuals.

Directs the Secretary of the Treasury to: (1) prioritize the repayment of the national debt to protect the fiscal stability of the United States; and (2) study and report to Congress on the implementation of this Act.

--------------------------

Does anyone really think that after 7 years, they'll repeal the individual income tax? Or cease the 1% tax?

It doesn't matter which way you pay for the transaction, they want to tax it...so will it become a bartering market?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1099212



After seven years the Income Tax will still be around, and this 1% transaction tax will have grown to a 7% nightmere tax.

The escape valve is in learning how to transact INTRA-STATE tax-free BUSINESS outside of FEDERAL JURIDICTION.
Calare (OP)

User ID: 1093567
United States
09/15/2010 02:51 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
You don't see it because you're not supposed to - you'd rather pay one or all of the new taxes that didn't exist 100 years ago; it's an American list but you get the idea:
 Quoting: Free Planet



I'd love it if we could just pay one tax similar to this, however, anyone that has the power to change (or repeal) Income tax is probably getting nice "contributions" by all sorts of people that would like to see it lean this way or that way. Getting rid of tax cuts, different tax % for different income levels, child/marriage credits, IRA, etc would strip too many people of too much power.

I figure IF this thing manages to make it out of both houses and pass ANYTHING like it is now, there'll be hikes on this tax AND we get to keep the old version in 2017.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill
Neil Peart
Anonymous Coward
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United States
09/15/2010 02:56 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
the health care bill kicks in on 2011
i garontea that tax is to help bail out the broken down gov.

what a sham
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1093928
Australia
09/15/2010 02:58 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Too bad it doesn't include wall street trading. How much of the debt would a 1% tax on all trades pay off?
 Quoting: starstuff

None because they would take their trading elsewhere, you know setup a NYSE surrogate in Nigeria.
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
09/15/2010 02:59 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
And secondly this would just cause people to use cash.
Which would bankrupt all banks.
So it was obviously made up by a lunatic.
Calare (OP)

User ID: 1093567
United States
09/15/2010 03:03 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
And secondly this would just cause people to use cash.
Which would bankrupt all banks.
So it was obviously made up by a lunatic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1093928


This includes cash. I'm assuming it would be like a Federal Sales Tax that will be put on any transaction.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill
Neil Peart
Calare (OP)

User ID: 1093567
United States
09/15/2010 03:16 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Just thought of something...

If this is supposed to be "offset by a corresponding nonrefundable income tax credit" I guess that means we're going to have to save receipts for EVERYTHING.

Imagine how many people are actually going to save each receipt from popping into the Kwik-E-Mart to buy a soda.

Would you have to account for any difference between what you have earned for the year and what you have receipts for?

Will they start using those nifty tracking strips they have in denominations of $20 or more?

Will you have to pay tax on things like giving your kid allowance?
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill
Neil Peart
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1071666
United States
09/15/2010 03:29 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Too bad it doesn't include wall street trading. How much of the debt would a 1% tax on all trades pay off?
 Quoting: starstuff


there is something called a Tobin tax which would tax stock trades

this Tobin tax could pay off everything and potentially send every kid to college for free and a bunch of other stuff

wish someone would tax trades
would fix a lot of stuff

Webster Tarpley talks about it
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1038440
Canada
09/15/2010 03:30 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
[link to thomas.loc.gov]

HR 4646 headed to committee.

1% tax anytime you make a monitary transaction.
Claims to pay off national debt in 7 years.
Claims Income Tax will be repealed in 2017.

I figure this is either going to die quickly, or they'll find some reason in 2016 why we can't repeal Income Tax.
 Quoting: Calare



look for them to attach it to a war times bill when things heat up again or another false flag happens...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 955229
United States
09/15/2010 03:39 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
If every transaction is taxed, would this not cause instantaneous horrendous inflation as each single item is taxed 10 times as it passes through the supply pipeline to the customer?

Price of gas goes up instantly as it is taxed at every production, refinement, and distributor level...

Increased price of gas causes all items moved around the country to go up in price. So higher gas prices result in even higher tax revenues...

???
yashsaxena

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India
09/15/2010 08:33 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
I think, If price of every goods, goes up continuously as it is taxed from production level to distributor level as a result tax on each product will increase. . .
[link to www.tax4india.com]

Last Edited by yashsaxena on 09/15/2010 08:34 AM
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2010 08:36 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Does anyone really think that after 7 years, they'll repeal the individual income tax? Or cease the 1% tax?


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1099212


ohappy

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
09/15/2010 08:40 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
At this rate us Canadians are soon going to start feeling sorry for how overtaxed YOU are.
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
09/15/2010 08:42 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
And secondly this would just cause people to use cash.
Which would bankrupt all banks.
So it was obviously made up by a lunatic.


This includes cash. I'm assuming it would be like a Federal Sales Tax that will be put on any transaction.
 Quoting: Calare

No im saying people will stop using banks this is not on cash how could it be.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1093928
Australia
09/15/2010 08:43 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Too bad it doesn't include wall street trading. How much of the debt would a 1% tax on all trades pay off?


there is something called a Tobin tax which would tax stock trades

this Tobin tax could pay off everything and potentially send every kid to college for free and a bunch of other stuff

wish someone would tax trades
would fix a lot of stuff

Webster Tarpley talks about it
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1071666

They would take the trading elsewhere it has already been proposed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1055544
United States
09/15/2010 08:43 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
I think they're going to try to include bartering as well. It specifies "intangible transactions" which I assume would cover it.

Now having it in a law and enforcing are two different things, but, pardon my short trip to paranoia land, this may be a way for enhanced surveillance. They got Al Capone with the tax code, maybe we're all next?
 Quoting: Calare


Yeah, bartering is already included in the tax code. Not too hard to modify the code to fit this form of taxation. Looks good on paper though, I must say. That's what'll get it through. Then, as mentioned before, when it comes time to repeal the income tax, something will come up.
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2010 08:44 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
And secondly this would just cause people to use cash.
Which would bankrupt all banks.
So it was obviously made up by a lunatic.


This includes cash. I'm assuming it would be like a Federal Sales Tax that will be put on any transaction.

No im saying people will stop using banks this is not on cash how could it be.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1093928


Black Market will boom!
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
09/15/2010 08:49 AM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
And secondly this would just cause people to use cash.
Which would bankrupt all banks.
So it was obviously made up by a lunatic.


This includes cash. I'm assuming it would be like a Federal Sales Tax that will be put on any transaction.

No im saying people will stop using banks this is not on cash how could it be.


Black Market will boom!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1055544

Yeah it would be good but thats why they will never do it because they never do anything that will be good.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
09/15/2010 03:14 PM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Ya know, I wouldn't have a problem with this IF:

~It was based on the original value of the product, instead of-

-An already over taxed and hyper-inflated price
-That puts the value of the item above and beyond it's real value

So...

~Do away with ALL the hidden taxes in the price of the item,
~Sell at the real value price instead of a ridiculously taxed price
~And tie the hands of government from increasing ANY other taxes
~And FORCE them to repeal all individual taxes on ANY slaved wage pay.

Then I'll pay the 1% transaction tax.
EuroTrader

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09/15/2010 03:31 PM
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Re: Bill to replace Income Tax with a "you touched money" tax
Absolutely ZERO.

I guarantee all serious traders would move their base to another jurisdiction without this ridiculous money-grab. I would be one of the first.

The U.S. Government WASTES our money so recklessly I feel no duty to keep feeding it. If you had a girlfriend on crack, would you keep handing her your cash? Giving her blank checks YOU have to make good? NO!


Too bad it doesn't include wall street trading. How much of the debt would a 1% tax on all trades pay off?
 Quoting: starstuff

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