Male egos, and strong, independant women...

Ah-ha ;)

I was hoping you'd say that. I could go back and quote you every time (just since I joined the debate) that you made comments like "Men need to stop doing X" and "Men do Y," but I won't.

That being said if you're going to make sweeping generalizations about men, I hope you realize expecting yourself to be treated like an individual is a bit hypocritical.

Well, it happens, and you get to either make the choice of creating a huge scene in the shop, stopping everyone from working...or you let it go, and continue to work.

I wasn't just talking about sexual things when I made that statement...
I've also had men say shit like ' Fuck you, you fuckin' Lesbian!"..because I was refusing to do work for them...had them throwing car parts at me....
I've had men try and fuck me out of the money for the job...nit picking shit that they would never give a man shit about...trying to use it as an excuse to not pay their final bill....
Men would never treat another man that way in a workplace...
Women get to deal with it pretty much every week...

Thank you for expressing what so many of us Woman sadly experience in the romantic sphere.

You come from where women roll and make thunder.

Only in this conversation...and I'm talking about my personal experiences.
In life I really don't throw all men into 1 category.
I try to see everyone as an individual...
I can only speak from the experiences I've had.
I know in my heart, I have never asked anything of my partners that I didn't give them, freely.
I accepted them for who they were, and let them be themselves....
That's all I'm asking for..

Honestly, I can't believe the firestorm this thread has generated.
When I posted initially, it was because someone else's post brought up thoughts that I wanted to talk about...
I had no idea that so many would get so upset by it...

It's amazing the amount of people that mistake 'strong, independant' as 'Egotistical Bitch".

It had died away, until that Brazilian guy brought it back this morning...because he dosen't think much of women...he got offened because I said the reason why women have been treated badly by men thru history was ...womb envy.

Yep...
Or they are putting in 40 hr. weeks working at places like Walmart, or Speedway, or a restaurant...because part time work just isn't enough to cover everything.

It was designed this way. You can only support a false economy so long before it begins to wither away. A great way to bump it back up is to force a 100% increase in the work force. This is why feminism was so well funded ;)

Lol. Poor little womyn have been treated bad by big bad men through history? Tell me, what does this have to do with you? How centuries old are you? You are just using it as an excuse to be a feminazi bitch. And who would envy such pathetic creatures like you? Stop playing the victim card and assume responsibility for your faults.

Ok, but I'm in this conversation, too, right? So it's not fair to tell me not to make a generalization when I'm combating your own generalizations :P

Hey now...calm the Hell down...
Not all women who work get all those lovely things you spoke of...
Some of us have never had a single paid holiday,sick day, let alone Maternity leave..
Wanna know how much Maternity leave I got? 0000000
I had to work 2 jobs and stash money the last 3 months of my pregnanacy, because I knew I wouldn't be able to work for a while after his birth.
Not all jobs are in the corporte world, and very few come with any of the niceties you listed...

Some women do actually put out as much work as men, of the same quality, and are still paid less.....it's a fact, and it has nothing to do with any of the stuff listed.

Victim much?

We're all on equal footing. YOU have to understand that and apply that to your life. Someone throws car parts at you, you should call the police.... or pull out your pistol if it's your shop. To do anything else is to allow yourself to be victimized.

Someone says "fuck you you fucking lesbian" for any reason, you tell them to leave, or you're calling the police, or if it's your shop, you can pull out your pistol, either way, to do anything else is to allow yourself to be victimized.

If people feel like they can say or do anything to you, they generally will. Women or man or whatever, you let yourself be a victim, and you WILL be a victim.

A mother fucker can nit pick all he wants, but he still has to pay. To not understand these basic premises puts you in victim status. You don't have to make a huge scene when some asshole says something inappropriate, just let him know that his work sucks and he needs to do a better job.

My wife is truly a strong independent beautiful woman. She is a consummate professional, who has worked with asshole men who say inappropriate things at work. It happens once and doesn't happen again. If you can't diffuse those situations, they will happen over and over, and you will get no respect. But again, you're letting it happen over and over.

Basically, if you get off on the fact that some loser at work wants to fuck you, instead of dealing with it like an adult professional, those situations will keep arising. It all comes down to you not allowing yourself to be a victim.

LOL...but others made the generalizations first...I was just reponding to them... ;)

I'll not cast you in with the lot, if ya don't put yourself there by agreeing with their generalizations.

..I promise ( and I NEVER make a promise I Know I can't keep!).

* holds out an Olive Branch*

O.P this is what I reckon....

There are two groups of people...

Kings and Queens
Princesses and Consorts.

You have to make up your mind which one you are Queen or Princess so you know which type of personality to go for.

You sound like a Queen to me (being a fire sign Aries would also lead me to say that too)
So you therefore need a Queens Consort.
Someone who won't mind you shining ........as you put it.

The answer to this is go for an unafflicted Cancerian Male.
Or a Gemini or Sagittarius.
These guys are the only ones who can handle a strong independent woman for long periods of time...and it is genuine.

But they have personality traits that could get on your nerves, so the trade off is to be patient, non judgemental and go with the flow. ...

that is all......good luck

And there are lots of jobs that would have better benefits, pay, and circumstance for me, too.

If the situation warrants and something occurs that causes me to believe I need to exit my current field, I'll get one of them.

There are TONS of unfair things levied against men, particularly white men. I worked in HR for a little while and discovered a lot of really terrible things.

So I guess what I'm saying is no, things aren't equal. They're never going to be equal. But as a woman you can get way more out of the system than I ever could. You can get easier tuition, better and more frequently applied business grants. You have entire business schools and placement programs.

It's not a one way street, in the world of inequality.

Exactly, everyone seems to have something going against them these days.

My attitude has always been that I don't give a fuck. I just have to be the best that I can be and go for it. I'm not asking permission or approval. I'm not gonna cry because shit is unfair. To do so is to yourself a disservice.

Female egos, and strong independent men. Go go gadget belly

I don't normally think of myself as a Victim....
Just had some bad experiences with people.
I'm a very non-confrontation person...I absolutly hate it, and go out of my way to avoid it.
I was raised to 'be nice',so I usually try and deal with a situation that way first, before I get my back all up in the air like a pissed off cat.
The guy that threw the car parts...I was on his property, and he was holding my sales book hostage...trying to get me to letter windshields for him.
We were busy, and it was the third time we had stopped, and he still wasn't ready for us...got pissed off when I told him he was going to have to find someone else to do his work, because we couldn't keep wasting time and making trips and he was never prepared for us.
He and his father were trying to pressure us into to doing it...keeping our sales book.......and when I was trying to get it back, is when he went off on me...started circling me like a shark, screaming at me .
I hate cops...and would never call them unless my life were in real danger.
I simply left the lot, and never went back...made us another sales book..
It was easier than the whole drama of calling the police and all that crap.

I did get the money out of the asshole that was nit picking over the sign...
I had to pick up a circular saw and turn it on...prepare to cut the sign up right there in front of him...before he deecide that the 'flaws' ( Superman's cape was 1/8 of an inch over the inset border in 1 tiny place) weren't so bad that he couldn't pay for the sign...

I don't think if I had been a man, that either of those situations would have happened...

and...no, I don't 'get off' on the notion that someone wants to fuck me.
I just don't like confrontations.
I figure my not responding to it, just ignoring it, giving it no creedance is better than a huge confrontation, creating a tense atmosphere I have to try and work in.
In non corporate work places...things are differant. There is no HR to go to, no help with stuff like that.
When you are a woman working in a shop full of men...it happens all the time.
You either get pissed of by it, or you learn to let it go..
it's just the way things are.
Is it right?
No....
But that's the way I have found the real world to be.
Sometimes in life, we have to learn to 'pick and choose your battle'.
There are more worthy battles to expend my energies on, than this one...because it will always happen when there are men and women working together...because of Human Nature.

OH NOES!!! Poor little womyn!! Why big bad men opwess womyn sooo much? Why my Gawd!? WHY!!!????

I haven't tried a Cancer....because they are water signs, and I normally don't do very well with them...but I may give it a shot, if they are good with women like me...:)
I'll try not to stomp all over his feelings, unintentionally, like us Rams are famous for ( we really don't mean to!)
LOL..my second husband was a Sag.
It was all good until he found out about the Leukemia....then he went away, and never came back to me, even though he was in remission for a couple of years.
Losing him was heartbreaking...:(

I do get along well with Gems too..but I haven't had a Gem, since my first love when I was 15...LOL...
Maybe I need to find some sort of Astrological dating site, where I can just look for those signs...LOL

Well, I've tried to talk to you , but you just want to continue to be a dick...so I'm done.
Go troll someone else...

I'm a Cancer!

I agree...it's not a 1 way street.
I know white guys have problems too...
But Affirmative Action has been repealed in most places anymore, so hopefully with the stupid 'quotas' gone, the jobs will go to the 'best qualified'..regardless of gender or race..
LOL..I know, my Utopian Dream!..:P

LOL...Thanks for the 'intermission entertainment"!
I love Bellydancers...:D
It's just so amazing how they have such control over those muscles!

Oh yeah?!
I'll dance with ya...try not to step on your toes too much with my hoofers...LOL..:D

I'm a fat white guy. That makes me possibly the worst dancer on the face of the Earth.

I really don't know any man who does not want a strong,smart,independent woman, however they also want a woman who can cook,clean,wash and care for the kids.

Hiya OP - you remind me so much of me! lol...having worked in a male dominated environment....building sites...for yrs..earning more pay than my partner and peers...sure they flirt and all that but ya know - men are gems. Sure they have ego issues - who doesn't in this world?!

It's hard to find your place as a woman and a man as the goalposts are always moving sociologically.

I think men - on the whole - prefer women to be more 'get up and go' types and be independent to degrees.
Hell - most men wouldn't mind me earning more...alot find that attractive now - in all age groups.

I'm out of the industry now...i have a life partner so never pursued all the flirtations on the building site i got daily. It became part of the job - a laugh and tickle and everyone is friends. It's important not to take it all too seriously. If i was more 'butch' and not so 'model-like' i would have got less attention. I tried to 'ugly myself up' at the start..to detract attention. I wanted recognition for my work not my face and body. Just being a happy talented woman gets you attention - if you have looks too - then it can be hell or heaven - depending on how you react.
In the end i was 'one of the lads'...i know it to be true as they would 'whoooaaaarr' every woman who walked on site and be nudging me for approval!! LOL!

Through working with men in that industry it really made me realise how it is men that really should be considered the fairer sex. They are more willing to move their own 'preferences' for their partners than women are willing to do for men.

The stories guys would tell me of their home life - wives...their concern...their obvious love and devotion. Let a man provide something for you - never let your partner feel they can't do anything for you.
The love of a good man should never be under-estimated!!

You'll find 'Your Man' OP - but don't go assuming every man is intimidated by you as it'll prove to be true as it's one of your core beliefs currently. Instead believe that most men would find your independence attractive. Know in yourself that earning more than your partner matters not...otherwise it could prevent you from finding your perfect match.

In a way i think you like that you are so independent and don't need a man to provide for you (hell i am!) but remember in a partnership, if you push that fact - you will make any man feel 'unwanted, not needed'.
Make love and your similarities of character build the relationship - instead of making income an issue.

Good luck sweetie....you're a gem about to be discovered!!

The Gemini was when you were 15 before your potential was fully realised and the Sag ex husband sounds like things were great until he got sick.
typical Sag male though. they are just as strong and emotionally independent as you and Aries people are!
Good reason to give another one a go, if you 2 had a good relationship....also give a Gemini another try.
You might be pleasantly surprised as an adult.
And yeah, Cancerians ....they get a bad rap for being moody and negative but it's just that because they give out so much of themselves it's their way of making space for themselves. They need the alone time every now and again...
If you give them that, they are keepers.

No guarantees here but who knows what you'll find...;)

[link to www.plentyoffish.com]

They say they want one..but then when they get us, they just can't handle it...:P
I can cook...I just made Deer stew and homemade yeast rolls for my Dad and Cousin, last night!...:D
I can clean!
I also do some home maintenance type stuff...like right now, I'm repainting the center floor of the house, plus, I've made new Roman blinds, and a padded seat cushion to match everything in the kitchen, and painted a mural on the staircase going upstairs!...:D
I have cared for children since I was a child myself....and sucessfully raised my own son, by myself, who is now 21 yrs. old...:D
I can do it all!...LOL..