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in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses

 
Anonymous Coward
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in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Galatians 2:

14 When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?

15 “You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. 16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

[...]

17 But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not! 18 Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down.
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 12:15 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
more lies and misdirection from the false prophet. In fact HOW DARE he say we are not to follow God's laws? Yeshua came to FULLFILL the law, not supersede it or make it null and void. Salvation through grace does not abstain us from the God's law.
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 12:19 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
924 views already? wtf
Anonymous Coward
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Oh my bad, it was bumped.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
The "strangers" in the OT were required to follow the laws if they wanted to participate with the Israelites.

The same goes for the Gentiles. Listen to Jesus to "hear" God. Jesus refers us back to the OT in every passage. During the Temptation, He refers us back to Deuteronomy 6-8. READ those chapters to understand.
Keep2theCode

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10/07/2012 12:53 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Galatians 2:

14 When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?

15 “You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. 16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

[...]

17 But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not! 18 Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1128502


I don't know how so many people completely misunderstand this, thanks for posting it. It's so very clear: Christians are "a new creation", wherein "there is no Jew or Greek", and both the "branches" that are grafted not one into the other but both into the Vine. We can add the parables of Jesus about the prodigal son (jealous older brother = Jews) and the workers in the field (Jews "early" workers who thought they deserved more than the Gentiles)to see that there is no more "wall of separation" in Christ.

This incident is, IMHO, the greatest rebuttal to all the Christians trying to act Jewish these days. It's an insult to the sacrifice of Jesus for us to go under the law when He already fulfilled it, as if He didn't pay enough.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode

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10/07/2012 12:57 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
more lies and misdirection from the false prophet. In fact HOW DARE he say we are not to follow God's laws? Yeshua came to FULLFILL the law, not supersede it or make it null and void. Salvation through grace does not abstain us from the God's law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16069571

Acts 15:6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “... 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Heb. 7:18 In fact, the former law is annulled because it is weak and useless since it didn't complete anything.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/07/2012 12:58 PM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
The Levitical law is not the same as the order of Melchizedek. Yet both are in the OT mentioned. Figure out, it´s the most important thing about the Law of God.
Keep2theCode

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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
The Levitical law is not the same as the order of Melchizedek. Yet both are in the OT mentioned. Figure out, it´s the most important thing about the Law of God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3020064


Heb. 7:11–12 So then, if perfection could come by means of the Levitical priesthood (which the people were put under by law), what need would there have been for another priest to arise— one not from the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of priesthood, there must be a change of law.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 01:03 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
The Levitical law is not the same as the order of Melchizedek. Yet both are in the OT mentioned. Figure out, it´s the most important thing about the Law of God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3020064


Heb. 7:11–12 So then, if perfection could come by means of the Levitical priesthood (which the people were put under by law), what need would there have been for another priest to arise— one not from the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of priesthood, there must be a change of law.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


... when Melchizedek met Abram, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor. Hebrews 7:10

I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I AM! John 8:58

Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body. Mark 14:22
... do this in remembrance of me. Luke 22:19
hillbilly

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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Were Galileans considered Gentiles? I personally find the term Gentile offensive, as used by the anti-Gentil-ites.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Galatians 2:

14 When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?

15 “You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. 16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

[...]

17 But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not! 18 Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1128502


Paul of Tarsus was the sworn enemy of the Jesus movement, the Apostles, and the earliest followers of Jesus of Nazareth. This is a historical fact!
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 01:13 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:"

Col 1:24


Good thing Paul was picking up the slack for Jesus!
Keep2theCode

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10/07/2012 01:14 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
... when Melchizedek met Abram, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor. Hebrews 7:10

I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I AM! John 8:58

Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body. Mark 14:22
... do this in remembrance of me. Luke 22:19
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3020064


The Greek of the Hebrews passage uses "one could even say", meaning "so to speak". In other words, it is not to be taken as a literal statement. Otherwise you'd have to think that sperm are complete human beings. And even if you dismiss all that, it raises an even bigger problem for those who wish to remain under the law: If Levi paid it through Abram, then so also did all the ancestors of Abram. So why would anyone at all need to tithe then?

There is also the fact that Abram did this exactly once, and on the spoils of a battle.

What the statements of Jesus being the I AM have to do with lawkeeping, only you can say.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode

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10/07/2012 01:16 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Paul of Tarsus was the sworn enemy of the Jesus movement, the Apostles, and the earliest followers of Jesus of Nazareth. This is a historical fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21989321


No, that was Saul, before his Damascus Road experience. He later renounced everything he had formerly done, and was ashamed of his having been at one time the worst enemy of the church, the "chief of sinners".
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 01:21 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
more lies and misdirection from the false prophet. In fact HOW DARE he say we are not to follow God's laws? Yeshua came to FULLFILL the law, not supersede it or make it null and void. Salvation through grace does not abstain us from the God's law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16069571


and the Law is: let Jesus be your role model.
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 01:23 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
more lies and misdirection from the false prophet. In fact HOW DARE he say we are not to follow God's laws? Yeshua came to FULLFILL the law, not supersede it or make it null and void. Salvation through grace does not abstain us from the God's law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16069571


and the Law is: let Jesus be your role model.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25076262


...for at no time in the Bible he had been accused, accept falsely, in transgressing the Law.
Irishkraut

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10/07/2012 01:25 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Galatians 2:

14 When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?

15 “You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. 16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

[...]

17 But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not! 18 Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1128502


Peter and Paul were enemies ....

read 'Peter's letter to James and its Reception

from the books that missed the 'cut'

hf
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2012 01:28 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
... when Melchizedek met Abram, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor. Hebrews 7:10

I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I AM! John 8:58

Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body. Mark 14:22
... do this in remembrance of me. Luke 22:19
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3020064


The Greek of the Hebrews passage uses "one could even say", meaning "so to speak". In other words, it is not to be taken as a literal statement. Otherwise you'd have to think that sperm are complete human beings. And even if you dismiss all that, it raises an even bigger problem for those who wish to remain under the law: If Levi paid it through Abram, then so also did all the ancestors of Abram. So why would anyone at all need to tithe then?

There is also the fact that Abram did this exactly once, and on the spoils of a battle.

What the statements of Jesus being the I AM have to do with lawkeeping, only you can say.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Again, Jesus was the new Melchisedek. Not a levitical high priest. As prophecied in the Psalm 110:

3Your troops will be willing on your day of battle. Arrayed in holy majesty, from the womb of the dawn you will receive the dew of your youth. 4The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.


It´s utter important everybody understands the difference. Until then the satanic bloodshed will commence. Out of ignorance: human sacrifices were prohibited by the Law.
Sir Phydeau

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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
... when Melchizedek met Abram, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor. Hebrews 7:10

I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I AM! John 8:58

Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body. Mark 14:22
... do this in remembrance of me. Luke 22:19
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3020064


The Greek of the Hebrews passage uses "one could even say", meaning "so to speak". In other words, it is not to be taken as a literal statement. Otherwise you'd have to think that sperm are complete human beings. And even if you dismiss all that, it raises an even bigger problem for those who wish to remain under the law: If Levi paid it through Abram, then so also did all the ancestors of Abram. So why would anyone at all need to tithe then?

There is also the fact that Abram did this exactly once, and on the spoils of a battle.

What the statements of Jesus being the I AM have to do with lawkeeping, only you can say.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


What is this "problem" you keep referring to? Honestly, how dare you claim that obedience is some kind of insult and a bad thing.

I do not obtain any salvation by obedience. However, there is more to serving than just salvation.

Personally, I find that to take all the words of the Messiah and toss them out of the window in favor for Paul because he offers an easier path is an insult to the sacrifice given, but that's just me.

See, there's one big difference between you and I: I couldn't give two shits if you obey or not. That's between you and the Elohim.

You, on the other hand, seem to be real offended that I do not worship MY god YOUR way. This is MY relationship and I'll obey whatever the hell I want to obey, thank you very much. If you're offended that I uphold Torah, that's YOUR problem, not mine or any one else's.
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" — John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
The Self Defining Hebrew System: [link to www.thechronicleproject.org]
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Avinu shebashamayim, yitkadesh shimkha. Tavo malkhutekha ye'aseh r'tzonekha ba'aretz ka'asher na'asah vashamayimTen-lanu haiyom lechem chukeinu. u'selach-lanu et-ashmateinu ka'asher solechim anachnu la'asher ashmu lanu. Ve'al-tevieinu lidei massah, ki im-hatsileinu min-hara. Ki lekha ha-mamlakha vehagevurah veha-tiferet l'olemei olamim. Amen.
Sir Phydeau

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10/07/2012 01:35 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Paul of Tarsus was the sworn enemy of the Jesus movement, the Apostles, and the earliest followers of Jesus of Nazareth. This is a historical fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21989321


No, that was Saul, before his Damascus Road experience. He later renounced everything he had formerly done, and was ashamed of his having been at one time the worst enemy of the church, the "chief of sinners".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Which "road to damascus experience"? The one where no one else could see or hear the Messiah, the one where everyone heard and saw the messiah, or the one where he was struck mute?

He tells this "life changing story" three times and it's different each time. One would think with the most life changing experience you've ever had, you'd keep the story straight.

Sorry, didn't mean to bash on the new messiah, but someone needed to point it out.
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" — John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
The Self Defining Hebrew System: [link to www.thechronicleproject.org]
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Avinu shebashamayim, yitkadesh shimkha. Tavo malkhutekha ye'aseh r'tzonekha ba'aretz ka'asher na'asah vashamayimTen-lanu haiyom lechem chukeinu. u'selach-lanu et-ashmateinu ka'asher solechim anachnu la'asher ashmu lanu. Ve'al-tevieinu lidei massah, ki im-hatsileinu min-hara. Ki lekha ha-mamlakha vehagevurah veha-tiferet l'olemei olamim. Amen.
Irishkraut

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10/07/2012 01:41 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Paul of Tarsus was the sworn enemy of the Jesus movement, the Apostles, and the earliest followers of Jesus of Nazareth. This is a historical fact!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21989321


No, that was Saul, before his Damascus Road experience. He later renounced everything he had formerly done, and was ashamed of his having been at one time the worst enemy of the church, the "chief of sinners".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Which "road to damascus experience"? The one where no one else could see or hear the Messiah, the one where everyone heard and saw the messiah, or the one where he was struck mute?

He tells this "life changing story" three times and it's different each time. One would think with the most life changing experience you've ever had, you'd keep the story straight.

Sorry, didn't mean to bash on the new messiah, but someone needed to point it out.
 Quoting: Sir Phydeau


exactly and isn't it a rule .... 2 or 3 witnesses ??

Churchianity loves Paul ... and uses His sayings over Yahshua's when there is a contradiction ....that should raise a red flag!

hf
hillbilly

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10/07/2012 01:42 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Mary wrote 'I hope John the Baptist can forgive us all.' It all comes down to how we treat the women, for they are half of the equation. John was not a 'seeker of smooth things'. Saul was of the same cloth, saying that women should be silent in the affairs of the church. Maybe Paul saw 'The Way' on the Damascus Road?
Father-MOTHER-child is the trinity, with the child tasked to seek the path leading from the intersection of the parents' paths. That is our destiny here, with each of us finding our OWN way.
Keep2theCode

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10/07/2012 01:50 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
What is this "problem" you keep referring to? Honestly, how dare you claim that obedience is some kind of insult and a bad thing.

I do not obtain any salvation by obedience. However, there is more to serving than just salvation.

Personally, I find that to take all the words of the Messiah and toss them out of the window in favor for Paul because he offers an easier path is an insult to the sacrifice given, but that's just me.

See, there's one big difference between you and I: I couldn't give two shits if you obey or not. That's between you and the Elohim.

You, on the other hand, seem to be real offended that I do not worship MY god YOUR way. This is MY relationship and I'll obey whatever the hell I want to obey, thank you very much. If you're offended that I uphold Torah, that's YOUR problem, not mine or any one else's.
 Quoting: Sir Phydeau


To try and obey a law that Jesus died to fulfill is to insult his sacrifice as inadequate. How dare YOU insult Him?

Nobody who carefully reads the Bible thinks they should have a license to sin, in spite of salvation by grace through faith alone. Paul said this clearly: "for it is by grace you are saved, through faith, and not by works" and "We died to sin, how can we live in it any longer?" So we are saved NOT by works but faith, and because of that, we are to live to please God and turn our backs on sin.

So to try and go back to the law, which was "the shadow" and "the burden" and "the custodian to lead us to Christ", is to turn our backs on what Jesus did to free us from it. Now we are under "the law of love", because "love does no harm to its neighbor". This is NOT the Levitical law! No more strict laws about the Sabbath or sacrifices or uncleanness.

As for your claim that I am offended or doing anything you're not in terms of trying to make others do as I say... ridiculous in the extreme. Can't I say what I think? Am I stopping you from posting? Are you too thin-skinned to see anyone talk about our freedom in Christ? I'm not being the emotional one here, or the offended one. And that's YOUR problem.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Sir Phydeau

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10/07/2012 01:59 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
What is this "problem" you keep referring to? Honestly, how dare you claim that obedience is some kind of insult and a bad thing.

I do not obtain any salvation by obedience. However, there is more to serving than just salvation.

Personally, I find that to take all the words of the Messiah and toss them out of the window in favor for Paul because he offers an easier path is an insult to the sacrifice given, but that's just me.

See, there's one big difference between you and I: I couldn't give two shits if you obey or not. That's between you and the Elohim.

You, on the other hand, seem to be real offended that I do not worship MY god YOUR way. This is MY relationship and I'll obey whatever the hell I want to obey, thank you very much. If you're offended that I uphold Torah, that's YOUR problem, not mine or any one else's.
 Quoting: Sir Phydeau


To try and obey a law that Jesus died to fulfill is to insult his sacrifice as inadequate. How dare YOU insult Him?

Nobody who carefully reads the Bible thinks they should have a license to sin, in spite of salvation by grace through faith alone. Paul said this clearly: "for it is by grace you are saved, through faith, and not by works" and "We died to sin, how can we live in it any longer?" So we are saved NOT by works but faith, and because of that, we are to live to please God and turn our backs on sin.

So to try and go back to the law, which was "the shadow" and "the burden" and "the custodian to lead us to Christ", is to turn our backs on what Jesus did to free us from it. Now we are under "the law of love", because "love does no harm to its neighbor". This is NOT the Levitical law! No more strict laws about the Sabbath or sacrifices or uncleanness.

As for your claim that I am offended or doing anything you're not in terms of trying to make others do as I say... ridiculous in the extreme. Can't I say what I think? Am I stopping you from posting? Are you too thin-skinned to see anyone talk about our freedom in Christ? I'm not being the emotional one here, or the offended one. And that's YOUR problem.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Upholding Torah is a joy and an honor. I'm not insulting the Messiah by doing what He told me to do. His words repeatedly state that we are to uphold the commandments. All this, "disobedience is the way!" crap came from Paul, not from Yahushua.

Paul is the anti-christ. I don't heed his empty, bullshit words.

But your mind is made up. You're content where you are and have no reason to seek any truth. Fine, I don't care. Just stop telling others how to live their lives. You have no right or power to pass judgement upon anyone. You are not the Messiah, nor are you the Father.

In other words: know your role.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 10/07/2012 02:00 PM
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" — John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
The Self Defining Hebrew System: [link to www.thechronicleproject.org]
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Avinu shebashamayim, yitkadesh shimkha. Tavo malkhutekha ye'aseh r'tzonekha ba'aretz ka'asher na'asah vashamayimTen-lanu haiyom lechem chukeinu. u'selach-lanu et-ashmateinu ka'asher solechim anachnu la'asher ashmu lanu. Ve'al-tevieinu lidei massah, ki im-hatsileinu min-hara. Ki lekha ha-mamlakha vehagevurah veha-tiferet l'olemei olamim. Amen.
Keep2theCode

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10/07/2012 02:08 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Upholding Torah is a joy and an honor. I'm not insulting the Messiah by doing what He told me to do. His words repeatedly state that we are to uphold the commandments. All this, "disobedience is the way!" crap came from Paul, not from Yahushua.

But your mind is made up. You're content where you are and have no reason to seek any truth. Fine, I don't care. Just stop telling others how to live their lives. You have no right or power to pass judgement upon anyone. You are not the Messiah, nor are you the Father.

In other words: know your role.
 Quoting: Sir Phydeau


Do whatever you feel is right, but in the end, it is God who holds us all to account for studying His words and understanding them. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for being blind to his coming, for not knowing the signs of his return, and for failing to comprehend what was written.

Jesus also violated the Sabbath on many occasions, and told the woman of Samaria that the time had come to "worship God neither here on this mountain nor in Jerusalem, but in spirit and truth". And when He died, the curtain in the Temple separating the Holiest Place was ripped in two, showing that the old ways were to be no more. That's all in the gospels and not anything from Paul.

YOUR mind is made up too, so there's no point in saying it. And why would I seek for that which I've already found? Jesus is the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father except through him--- meaning not through the law. He, as the fulfillment of the law and the prophecies, is all we need.

YOU pass judgment on me; YOU do not seek truth; YOU keep trying to tell ME how to live. That makes you very much like the Pharisees, those Jesus called hypocrites. YOU are not the Messiah nor the Father either, and if you are accusing me of thinking I am, you are a slanderer as well. God will judge between us, Pharisee.

In other words, look in the mirror and take your own accusatory advice.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Neim-Ya'shar

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10/07/2012 02:09 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Galatians 2:

14 When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, “Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?

15 “You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. 16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

[...]

17 But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not! 18 Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1128502


PAUL WAS ADDRESSING THE LAW OF CIRCUMCISION WHICH PETER WAS TRYING TO FORCE ON THE GENTILE CONVERTS ...READ VERSE 1 DOWN


PAUL IS NOT DISCREDITING ALL THE LAW...ALL THE LAW IS CONTAINED IN THE FIVE BOOKS OF THE OT


NOTICE AGAIN YOU SEE PAUL ADDRESSES "THE JEWISH TRADITIONS" THESE WERE THE PHARASETICAL LAWS THAT THE MESSIAH ALSO OPPOSED. THE MESSIAH CALLED THOSE MEN JEWS ALSO BECAUSE HE KNEW HE WAS NOT IN THAT CLASS HE WAS A JUDEAN AND SEPEARTED HIMSELF FROM THAT STIGMA

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 10/07/2012 02:14 PM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Sir Phydeau

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10/07/2012 02:13 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
Upholding Torah is a joy and an honor. I'm not insulting the Messiah by doing what He told me to do. His words repeatedly state that we are to uphold the commandments. All this, "disobedience is the way!" crap came from Paul, not from Yahushua.

But your mind is made up. You're content where you are and have no reason to seek any truth. Fine, I don't care. Just stop telling others how to live their lives. You have no right or power to pass judgement upon anyone. You are not the Messiah, nor are you the Father.

In other words: know your role.
 Quoting: Sir Phydeau


Do whatever you feel is right, but in the end, it is God who holds us all to account for studying His words and understanding them. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for being blind to his coming, for not knowing the signs of his return, and for failing to comprehend what was written.

Jesus also violated the Sabbath on many occasions, and told the woman of Samaria that the time had come to "worship God neither here on this mountain nor in Jerusalem, but in spirit and truth". And when He died, the curtain in the Temple separating the Holiest Place was ripped in two, showing that the old ways were to be no more. That's all in the gospels and not anything from Paul.

YOUR mind is made up too, so there's no point in saying it. And why would I seek for that which I've already found? Jesus is the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father except through him--- meaning not through the law. He, as the fulfillment of the law and the prophecies, is all we need.

YOU pass judgment on me; YOU do not seek truth; YOU keep trying to tell ME how to live. That makes you very much like the Pharisees, those Jesus called hypocrites. YOU are not the Messiah nor the Father either, and if you are accusing me of thinking I am, you are a slanderer as well. God will judge between us, Pharisee.

In other words, look in the mirror and take your own accusatory advice.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


You just want to fight, not discuss ... hence, fuck you. Run along now and find you some idiots that will drool in agreement with you. I'm not one of them.

As for Pharisee, they follow something called the Talmud. THIS is the tradition that HaMosiach spoke out against, not the Holy Word of the Father. FFS, if you can't even comprehend that simple item, then you're too fucking stupid to have a conversation with.

I've not called you a single name. I've not made a single demand of you. Yet EVERY reply you've made to me contains name calling and demanding behavior.

So, Fuck you. I'm taking the gloves off. You want to fight, I'll take you apart with the words of the Messiah Himself.

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 10/07/2012 02:17 PM
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" — John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
The Self Defining Hebrew System: [link to www.thechronicleproject.org]
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Avinu shebashamayim, yitkadesh shimkha. Tavo malkhutekha ye'aseh r'tzonekha ba'aretz ka'asher na'asah vashamayimTen-lanu haiyom lechem chukeinu. u'selach-lanu et-ashmateinu ka'asher solechim anachnu la'asher ashmu lanu. Ve'al-tevieinu lidei massah, ki im-hatsileinu min-hara. Ki lekha ha-mamlakha vehagevurah veha-tiferet l'olemei olamim. Amen.
Sir Phydeau

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10/07/2012 02:23 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
"Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete. 18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke [smallest elements of the Hebrew alphabet] will pass from the Torah-not until everything that must happen has happened. 19 So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot [commandments] and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven." Matt. 5:17-19
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" — John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
The Self Defining Hebrew System: [link to www.thechronicleproject.org]
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Avinu shebashamayim, yitkadesh shimkha. Tavo malkhutekha ye'aseh r'tzonekha ba'aretz ka'asher na'asah vashamayimTen-lanu haiyom lechem chukeinu. u'selach-lanu et-ashmateinu ka'asher solechim anachnu la'asher ashmu lanu. Ve'al-tevieinu lidei massah, ki im-hatsileinu min-hara. Ki lekha ha-mamlakha vehagevurah veha-tiferet l'olemei olamim. Amen.
Keep2theCode

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10/07/2012 02:24 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
You just want to fight, not discuss ... hence, fuck you. Run along now and find you some idiots that will drool in agreement with you. I'm not one of them.

As for Pharisee, they follow something called the Talmud. THIS is the tradition that HaMosiach spoke out against, not the Holy Word of the Father. FFS, if you can't even comprehend that simple item, then you're too fucking stupid to have a conversation with.

I've not called you a single name. I've not made a single demand of you. Yet EVERY reply you've made to me contains name calling and demanding behavior.

So, Fuck you. I'm taking the gloves off. You want to fight, I'll take you apart with the words of the Messiah Himself.
 Quoting: Sir Phydeau


It's call a "discussion", and this is a message board. Getting all hyper-emotional isn't scoring you any points, nor is cursing me while sitting on your high Torah horse. A fine example you are.

Rest assured as well that if YOU are in GLP at all, you're one of the idiots, pal. If Your Royal Highness can't stand the smell, he should take his royal steed to someplace where nobody will dare to raise a hand against him. So sorry, Sire, that I'm not one of the drooling fools you hoped would agree with you.

Sheesh, can't you see how you're doing everything you accuse me of?

And cursing me isn't as bad as name calling? Denial isn't a fruit of the Spirit either. Anybody can see what you've said.

So, rather than act like you, I will simply say "may God have mercy on your soul", though I got a very good laugh out of your threat of taking me apart. First you got mad at me for "only wanting to fight", and now YOU want to start a pissing contest!

Wow.

OH, and by the way: If you want to do Messiah-only quotes, bring it.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 10/07/2012 02:26 PM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Sir Phydeau

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10/07/2012 02:27 PM
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Re: in the bible - Paul tells off Peter for trying to get Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses
You just want to fight, not discuss ... hence, fuck you. Run along now and find you some idiots that will drool in agreement with you. I'm not one of them.

As for Pharisee, they follow something called the Talmud. THIS is the tradition that HaMosiach spoke out against, not the Holy Word of the Father. FFS, if you can't even comprehend that simple item, then you're too fucking stupid to have a conversation with.

I've not called you a single name. I've not made a single demand of you. Yet EVERY reply you've made to me contains name calling and demanding behavior.

So, Fuck you. I'm taking the gloves off. You want to fight, I'll take you apart with the words of the Messiah Himself.
 Quoting: Sir Phydeau


It's call a "discussion", and this is a message board. Getting all hyper-emotional isn't scoring you any points, nor is cursing me while sitting on your high Torah horse. A fine example you are.

Rest assured as well that if YOU are in GLP at all, you're one of the idiots, pal. If Your Royal Highness can't stand the smell, he should take his royal steed to someplace where nobody will dare to raise a hand against him. So sorry, Sire, that I'm not one of the drooling fools you hoped would agree with you.

Sheesh, can't you see how you're doing everything you accuse me of?

And cursing me isn't as bad as name calling? Denial isn't a fruit of the Spirit either. Anybody can see what you've said.

So, rather than act like you, I will simply say "may God have mercy on your soul", though I got a very good laugh out of your threat of taking me apart. First you got mad at me for "only wanting to fight", and now YOU want to start a pissing contest!

Wow.

OH, and by the way: If you want to do Messiah-only quotes, bring it.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Just did bring it.

You're projecting. You started this shit, not me. I came in and shared an alternative view. Which led to your name calling and bullshit. Scroll up, re-read and stop your "I'm a poor little victim" crap. It's very immature.
I'd like to make one observation: However, I've been where most of you are. Have you been where I now am? I grew up a traditional Christian and became very zealous for my beliefs. ONLY when I prayerfully persevered in my determined attempts at unbiased study did the Living God reward me with truth and tear me from the embrace of the great harlot.


Have you been in MY shoes? I've been in yours.

Lastly, I've not cursed you at all. It's called "profanity" it's a form of modern slang. A CURSE would be if I stated, "By the power and grace given to me by Yahushua HaMosiach, I cast you into a life of pain and horror". That is a curse. Saying, "Fuck you" is modern slang.

But you go ahead and latch onto anything you want to make yourself into a poor little victim. Poor baby, you made a bullshit posting and someone called you on your bullshit. Such a horrible life you have to lead. WAnt a tissue?

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 10/07/2012 02:33 PM
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" — John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
The Self Defining Hebrew System: [link to www.thechronicleproject.org]
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Avinu shebashamayim, yitkadesh shimkha. Tavo malkhutekha ye'aseh r'tzonekha ba'aretz ka'asher na'asah vashamayimTen-lanu haiyom lechem chukeinu. u'selach-lanu et-ashmateinu ka'asher solechim anachnu la'asher ashmu lanu. Ve'al-tevieinu lidei massah, ki im-hatsileinu min-hara. Ki lekha ha-mamlakha vehagevurah veha-tiferet l'olemei olamim. Amen.

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