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The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet!
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Anonymous Coward
7/7/2005 11:31 AM
Report abusive post | The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet!
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The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet!
The comet may have been on the very low side of the density they expected:
They expected an average density of .1 to .9 that of water. Just think about diving in a pool of water .1 the density of normal water, that is almost like a dense cloud.
Now the average density of the impactor was .6 that of water when the air spaces are counted, but the individual pieces were, of course, much more dense being 75% copper.
If the average density of the comet was indeed only .1 that of water then the outer shell of the comet could have been ten times less than that = .01 and the inside about 5 times that = .5 to get your average density of .1 (using a volume calc. for sphere or 4.2 miles diameter).
So, using the low side of average density (.1), the impactor could have been significantly more dense than even the center of the comet allowing it to penetrate much, much further before stopping.
This may be the reason for the cryptic remark in a BBC interview special, when Karen from NASA stated that they thought the craft was going deeper yet.
It is possible that the impactor was brought to a near halt, but the copper core kept moving deeper for several hours at a very low speed, kind of floating down to the center? |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
This does not account for the numerous explosions occuring long after the initial impact on the survace of the īcometī. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
If the impactor was indeed penetrating for awhile, various gas cavities were being encountered at regular intervals causing periodic gas discharges. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
These were not gas discharges. These were without any doubt and even according to some NASA spokespersons, surface explosions. Nothing else has come from NASA concerning Comet Tempel.
Does anyone have a link from a site that shows the impact and the aftermath or the next several hours?
Why is there absolutely no feed?
They gave us two images. One before and one of the initial impact, then nothing new.
Why is there no feed? It is as if they think us unworthy of sharing the video of what they accomplished. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
"The impactor is designed to fly itself to a sunlit portion of the comet visible from the flyby spacecraft and Earthīs ground-based telescopes. Once there, the comet will actually collide with the impactor at over 10 km/sec (>23,000 mph/hr). We expect a crater ranging in size from a house to a football stadium, two to seven stories deep. The impactor weighs 370 kg (about 820 lbs) and is 1 meter (3 1/2 ft.) in diameter by 0.8 meters (2 3/4 ft) tall.
The forward section (bottom) is a series of honey-combed copper plates forming a dome shape that is designed to make the density of the impactor match the anticipated density of the comet, thus opening up a large crater. The back section contains the battery, electronics, computers, propulsion equipment and steering instruments that guide the spacecraft to the comet."
"is designed to make the density of the impactor match the anticipated density of the comet, thus opening up a large crater."
That is assuming the average density of the comet that they anticipated. Since it may have been on the low end (.1 of water) and since the outer shells were likely less dense than the inner, the average density of the impactor was likely much greater than most of the shells it penetrated. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
How can you tell that surface explosion is not coming from within especially given the scant imagery we have so far? |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
ooh...thatīs gotta hoit. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
Not that I believe that the comet is a spaceship, but in that case, it would surely have a softer center than the exterior...
Hummm... |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
its ALL a hoax - the images mean nothing |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
What would be exploding inside the comet?
I agree with your initial assesment that if there were anything pressurized within the comet there would have been a discharge.
The later explosions were identical to the initial one.
They produced light and debris in the same pattern as the original impact.
What would have been inside the comet that would have exploded? Why would there have been more explosions.
The impactor was made of copper which is soft and ductile. It would have fragmented during the initial explosion.
If it had entered as easily as you suggest then there would have been no explosion.
The blast was enormous and therefore the impactor could not have maintained its integrity past the first blast. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
If you watch the animation closely you will notice that there is a delay in the time of entry to the time of the first discharge. This, at least means that the impactor may have encountered just a bit of resistance at the surface and then continued at a fairly high speed (maybe averaging 1/50th of its original speed) until something significant was encountered, all of the while slowing down drastically to a near halt. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
Comets are really living beings, and we just put out one of its eyes. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
Even at 1/50th of its speed it would only take the impactor 1/2 second to go through the entire comet and exit the other side. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
oops, scratch that last calc -- I am redoing it. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
More like 15 seconds to reach the center of the comet moving at 460 mph. But the 1/50th is arbitrary anyway. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
Each interval is half of a second and assuming the impactor was moving at 23,000 mph directly before any contact with the comet.
MPH 1/2 sec. intervals
11500 1.597222222
2300 0.319444444
460 0.063888889
235 0.032638889
120 0.016666667
70 0.009722222
40 0.005555556
25 0.003472222
15 0.002083333
10 0.001388889
8 0.001111111
6 0.000833333
4 0.000555556
3 0.000416667
3 0.000416667
2 0.000277778
2 0.000277778
2 0.000277778
1 0.000138889
1 0.000138889
1 0.000138889
1 0.000138889
1 0.000138889
2.056944444
Center of the comet in 12 seconds |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
It does not explain that there was an explosion complete with light at the surface. One judge from the size of the comet that the explosion was enormous, not a mere impact. The other explosions were at the surface as well and also enormous and produced their own light.
This was no leak of internal gasses streaming behind a comet. It was a series of surface explosions. I think at least five seperate explosions were noted by NASA personel.
The last thing that is going to give us answers is going to be the animation created befor ethey knew what would happen. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
Second column of numbers is MILES. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
I am referring to the actual impact animation. There is a several frame delay between the first contact and the first explosion. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
Given the likely very light density on the outer shell (maybe .05 that of water to be conservative) it is not hard to believe that the impactor went fairly deep. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
Sorry 1500, I thought you were refering to the CGI animation.
I guess were going to have to agree to disagree on one improtant point.
What I observed after the initial impact was a series of explosions that appeared to be on the surface of the comet. I cannot suspend my disbelieve enough to accept that they occured within the comet.
Even if they did, why? What was in the comet that exploded not just once but five times? If the comet was so soft (low density) why wasnīt it blown apart?
There are too many questions that not been answered. NASA has been silent about them. I dunno just isnīt good enough from them. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
It is possible that the comet is disintegrating as we speak, maybe that is the reason for the delay. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
People had a false impression that this comet was a rock. A rock is dense. This comet was far from dense. Even using the average that they expected, the density overall would be .5 that of water. Think about that. Dive into a pool of half dense water and you will go very deep. Now if the surface of this comet was even less dense which is likely, what you end up with is a very quick and deep penetration all of the way into the interior. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
"Density: probably between 100 and 900 kilograms per cubic meter (between 1/10 and 9/10 the density of water on Earth)."
[link to www.planetary.org] |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
[link to www.nasa.gov]
From this actual imagery of the impact, there is a 12 frame delay from impact to explosion. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
from timing it -- it is hard to tell but I guess around 1/2 second delay.
In 1/2 second at 23,000 mph the impactor can go 3.2 miles. The radius of the comet is only 2.1 miles in diameter.
Now, assuming it slowed down drastically in the first second, which of course it had to due to increased friction (but not as much as you would think), that slow down produces heat also.
Letīs say it slowed to 1/4th of its speed in a half second and 1/50th of its speed within 1 second and 1/100th of its speed within 1.5 seconds. That is .8 miles + .064 + .032 = nearly half the way to the center of the comet right there alone. Sine we have a visual delay from entry to first explosion of about 1/2 second we should at least assume 3/4 of a mile penetration for starters. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
typo --the radius of the comet is 2.1 miles, it should say. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
Most of the impactor burned up due to friction within 2 seconds, but it is likely that some pieces survived up to 1 or 2 miles in. That is my contention. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
If my theory is correct, there will be no CRATER at the point of impact, just a 1 mile deep needle hole.
And the comet might be breaking up already from the injection and multiple discharges. |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
bump for ego and pleasure hehe |
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Anonymous Coward
12/8/2005 10:12 AM | | Re: The impactor may have penetrated all of the way to the center of this comet! | Quote |
"Now the average density of the impactor was .6 that of water when the air spaces are counted, but the individual pieces were, of course, much more dense being 75% copper."
Another point to make about this is that immediately upon impact the "air spaces" go away because the craft has been squeezed smaller. What results is an impactor that is suddenly a lot more dense per cubic foot, although glowing hot also from friction. |
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