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~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1179188
Norway
12/14/2010 06:15 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
Field rotation - is that something new...?!

We've never learned about that - because it never seemed nessesary - our moon never changed...!?


Because you've obviously never observed the sky for more than a few minutes at a time. Anyone who has spent an entire night under the stars fully understands that as the earth rotates, the sky appears to rotate in the opposite direction...along with anything in the sky...including the moon. If the moon were further north so that it was circumpolar, such as several constellations that are around the north celestial pole that never appear to set, you would see the moon make a complete 360 degree rotation in 24 hours just as these circumpolar constellations do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 991880


I've lived under the winter sky my whole life - we stayed outside quite a while, thank you!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1179188
Norway
12/14/2010 06:19 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
Here's a number of pictures of a wet moon crescent (along with a bunch of other junk the search turned up).

[link to www.bing.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 991880


Show me pictures from abowe 69 degrees north - and let them show the moon at least 20 years back...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1179810
Costa Rica
12/14/2010 06:20 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
Is it possible different different regions of Earth see different moons?

Is this a real question?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 991880


Yes, different holograms for different regions. Just saying.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 991880
United States
12/14/2010 06:23 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
More:

[link to planetariumweb.madison.k12.wi.us]

[link to www.farmersalmanac.com]

[link to www.kavanaughgallery.com]

[link to www.usatoday.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 991880
United States
12/14/2010 06:24 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
Here's a number of pictures of a wet moon crescent (along with a bunch of other junk the search turned up).

[link to www.bing.com]


Show me pictures from abowe 69 degrees north - and let them show the moon at least 20 years back...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1179188


Did you not read about where the term "wet moon" was coined in Hawaiian mythology? Do you think that is recent?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1179188
Norway
12/14/2010 06:38 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
Did you not read about where the term "wet moon" was coined in Hawaiian mythology? Do you think that is recent?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 991880


Recent?!?! Up where I live..!? Must be totally new..!?
Hawaii is far, far away...

I know what I've seen - what I see now - what has changed.
So does my mom - and plenty of others around here at GLP.

Goodnight...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1048292
United States
12/14/2010 06:48 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
I am no expert - BUT - field rotation is due to earth rotating - well - the moon ROTATES around the earth - the stars will give a field rotation effect because they are fixed in the sky compared to earth BUT the moon ROTATES AROUND THE EARTH - how does this make field rotation with respect to a moon that also circles the earth???
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/14/2010 06:50 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
you big silly
LOL
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1048292
United States
12/14/2010 06:54 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
I am no expert - BUT - field rotation is due to earth rotating - well - the moon ROTATES around the earth - the stars will give a field rotation effect because they are fixed in the sky compared to earth BUT the moon ROTATES AROUND THE EARTH - how does this make field rotation with respect to a moon that also circles the earth???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1048292



In other words - here is my question - does the moon which revolves around the earth show the same field rotation effect as the fixed stars?
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/14/2010 07:25 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 991880
United States
12/14/2010 07:26 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
I am no expert - BUT - field rotation is due to earth rotating - well - the moon ROTATES around the earth - the stars will give a field rotation effect because they are fixed in the sky compared to earth BUT the moon ROTATES AROUND THE EARTH - how does this make field rotation with respect to a moon that also circles the earth???



In other words - here is my question - does the moon which revolves around the earth show the same field rotation effect as the fixed stars?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1048292



Ok, try to follow. Let's say that the moon's axis of rotation is parallel with the earth's axis of rotation (it's not exactly, but close enough for this demonstration). That means that the moon's north pole points to the same place in the sky as the earth's north pole. The moon has obvious markings on its surface and if you look at a map of the moon, it is marked with the moon's north, south, east and west directions just as a map of the earth shows. Thus, you can orient yourself to the face of the moon just like a face on a clock. Features that are at the moon's north pole will always be at the pole.

Now, imaging yourself facing east watching the moon rise. Which way does it's north pole point? If you're facing east, the earth's north pole is to your left...and since the moon's axis is parallel to the earth's, that means that the moon's north pole is aiming also to your left. If you look at a map of the moon's surface features, you will see that when rising in the east that it's north/south line is essentially horizontal (parallel to your local horizon) with north towards your left.

Now, wait six hours and look at the moon again. By this time, the earth has rotated a quarter turn (6/24 = one quarter) and the moon is high in the southern sky. Now, which way is the moon's north/south line pointing? Obviously, it's still parallel to the earth's axis and it is still pointing to your north, but your north is now over your head BEHIND YOU (remember, you're looking south). This means that the moon's north/south line is "vertical" to your southern horizon as you are looking at it with your back turned towards north. In other words, from YOUR viewpoint, the moon's north/south line that was horizontal as it was rising is now vertical. It has APPEARED to rotate virtually 90 degrees. If you look at the surrounding stars and constellations, they also have APPEARED to rotate by the same amount.

Six hours later, as the moon is setting in the west, you again look at it, but you are now facing west with north to your right. The moon's north/south line is still parallel to that of the earth, but it now appears to again be horizontal, but the moon's north pole is still pointing to the north, but north is now to your RIGHT. In other words, the moon APPEARS to have completely turned 180 degrees as it crossed the sky. So do all the stars and constellations.

But was it them rotating, or was it YOUR viewpoint moving?

Also, at the same time that YOU were seeing the moon rising in the east and it's north pointing to YOUR left, someone else a quarter of the way around the earth at a different longitude is seeing the same moon, but high in their southern sky with the moon's north/south line vertical to their horizon...AT THE SAME TIME. Thus, the moon's apparent rotational angle with the observer's local horizon is a local thing and completely depends on which longitude you're observing from. The only place that you could be on earth and not see this apparent field rotation of the moon is at the north or south rotational poles of the earth. It's simple geometry.

Do you follow?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1048292
United States
12/14/2010 07:33 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
I am no expert - BUT - field rotation is due to earth rotating - well - the moon ROTATES around the earth - the stars will give a field rotation effect because they are fixed in the sky compared to earth BUT the moon ROTATES AROUND THE EARTH - how does this make field rotation with respect to a moon that also circles the earth???



In other words - here is my question - does the moon which revolves around the earth show the same field rotation effect as the fixed stars?



Ok, try to follow.
Do you follow?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 991880


No follow - too complicated for me - but thank you for the lesson - I guess your answer to my question is - yes?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 991880
United States
12/14/2010 07:33 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
The effect of the apparently rotating sky is most obvious when we look towards the north or south celestial pole. In the northern hemisphere, this is near the star Polaris (aptly named). Go out tonight and notice the orientation of any of the constellations near Polaris. Right now, Cassiopeia (shaped like a giant W or M) is almost directly over Polaris in the northern sky, and at this time (7:30 PM) is oriented like a letter M tilted towards the right. Go back out a few hours later and note how far it is rotated around Polaris towards the west. Before sunrise, it will have rotated essentially 180 degrees and will look like the letter M.

If the moon were in that part of the sky, you would see it appear to rotate in exactly the same manner since it is YOU that is doing the rotating.

Understand?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 991880
United States
12/14/2010 07:34 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
I am no expert - BUT - field rotation is due to earth rotating - well - the moon ROTATES around the earth - the stars will give a field rotation effect because they are fixed in the sky compared to earth BUT the moon ROTATES AROUND THE EARTH - how does this make field rotation with respect to a moon that also circles the earth???



In other words - here is my question - does the moon which revolves around the earth show the same field rotation effect as the fixed stars?



Ok, try to follow.
Do you follow?


No follow - too complicated for me - but thank you for the lesson - I guess your answer to my question is - yes?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1048292



Just go outside and watch the constellation of Orion with it's three stars in a line as it rises tonight in the east. Then go back out a few hours later and note how those stars appear to have rotated clockwise. Since it is US doing the rotating, the moon APPEARS to do the same thing.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 991880
United States
12/14/2010 07:36 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
Go back out a few hours later and note how far it is rotated around Polaris towards the west. Before sunrise, it will have rotated essentially 180 degrees and will look like the letter M.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 991880



Sorry, my mistake. Before sunrise, it will look like the letter W.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1048292
United States
12/14/2010 07:43 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
Thanks again for your explanation - I do follow you - except I live right outside New York City and rarely do I get to see the stars at night. I would have thought the moons rotation around earth would have it being observed different with respect to field rotation than are the stars - but you have answered that -
MONSTER

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12/14/2010 07:56 PM

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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
why doesnt my moon calender have it like a bowl? I saw it last night too I have seen the small sliver pointing up like a smile but not completelly cut in half facing up, and I dont see the shadows on the moon looking like the man on the moon face, havent seen that for a while. If I see a white cat I am not going to change my mind when a stranger tells me it is a black cat. I might be wrong but I will believe my own eyes before I believe someones elses eyes.
KINGDOMS, NATIONS AND KINGS HAVE BEEN BROUGHT DOWN TO THEIR KNEES WITH ONE GLANCE FROM A WOMAN.

I WEAR MY SKIN OF ARMOR SO NO ONE CAN GET IN AND NO ONE CAN GET OUT.

HOW CAN I MOURN YOU, WHEN I HAVE NEVER LET YOU GO, monster 1991-2008 RIP
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 991880
United States
12/14/2010 07:58 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
Thanks again for your explanation - I do follow you - except I live right outside New York City and rarely do I get to see the stars at night. I would have thought the moons rotation around earth would have it being observed different with respect to field rotation than are the stars - but you have answered that -
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1048292



If you think about it, field rotation is a completely local thing...and effect from the fact that our observation point is moving aorund the surface of a sphere, and we're looking at objects that appear to be projected on the interior of an external sphere (the so-called "celestial sphere").

In fact, the same effect is responsible for the pickup feedhorn of satellite dishes having to be set at different rotational angles depending where along the satellite arc the dish is pointed. All of the antennas for all of the satellites in the geosynchronous arc orbinting above the equator are oriented parallel to the earth's lines of latitude and longitude. In other words, for a receive site sitting on the equator and looking at a satellite directly overhead, the dish's pickup feedhorn can be oriented exactly north/south or east/west depending on which polarity it is looking at. However, for all other longitudes and latitudes, the pickup antenna will have to be oriented at some angle (which is easily calculated) so as to be parellel with the antenna on the satellite. Does that measn that the actual satellite has rotated? Obviously not. It is the geometry of the situation that dictates this.

For satellite dishes that track non-geosynnchronous low orbiting satellites, the polarity angle of the feedhorn must be rotated as the antenna is swept across the sky to keep it parellel with that of the moving satellite.

This is the same effect that we have been talking about. Essentially, your viewing angle has changed as the earth has rotated, causing the moon to appear to rotate as it moves across the sky.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 991880
United States
12/14/2010 08:02 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
why doesnt my moon calender have it like a bowl? I saw it last night too I have seen the small sliver pointing up like a smile but not completelly cut in half facing up, and I dont see the shadows on the moon looking like the man on the moon face, havent seen that for a while. If I see a white cat I am not going to change my mind when a stranger tells me it is a black cat. I might be wrong but I will believe my own eyes before I believe someones elses eyes.
 Quoting: MONSTER



Calendars don't know where you are located and the actual angle of the crescent is a local thing. Think about it...the lit part is ALWAYS pointing at the sun since the sun supplies the illumination. For different people in different locations on the earth AT THE SAME TIME, the sun is in different locations relative to them and thus the moon's "tilt" will appear different depending on where you are. Thus, fixed moon phase calendars always show the moon in a "vertical" orientation since it can appear differently to people in different locations at the same time. The calendar is only showing what phase the moon is in on a particular day. If you download a planetarium program such as "Stellarium", you can set it for your location and it will make the neccessary calculations to show how the moon will appear to YOU.
Andyjax

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12/14/2010 08:23 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
i'm new to posting but yo can do a simple test. take your left hand and stretch it out to your left. fingers outstretched with your thumb pointing up. now imagine your head is the earth and your hand is the moon. move your arm from left to right in an arc arm stretched out. where is your thumb when it finishes the arc.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 991880
United States
12/14/2010 08:31 PM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
i'm new to posting but yo can do a simple test. take your left hand and stretch it out to your left. fingers outstretched with your thumb pointing up. now imagine your head is the earth and your hand is the moon. move your arm from left to right in an arc arm stretched out. where is your thumb when it finishes the arc.
 Quoting: Andyjax



Good example. Another that may be even closer to accurate is to find a classroom globe (school, library, etc). Lean down and put your head next to it with one eye close to where you are on the earth. Rotate the globe so that you can see a picture on the wall just over the edge of the globe (similar to the moon rising over the horizon). Note the orientation of the picture relative to the edge of the globe in that direction (your local horizon). Now, rotate the globe a quarter turn towards the picture while keeping your eye "attached" to it. Look again at the picture and note it's orientation compared to your local horizon. Does it look the same, or has it appeared to rotate? What did the rotating...the picture, or your viewpoint?
Himbe Uhuru 7
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12/15/2010 12:09 AM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
[link to en.wikipedia.org]



Correct, it's called a "wet moon" and is mentioned in literature as far back as Shakespeare.


Bullshit. It tilts/it's normal - it has turned (according o my son), it rises much lower than we've ever seen before, etc...quite confusing.

NOT normal - end of discussion...!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1179188


I agree definitely not normal, what we are seeing with moon and sun.

Big question for the "field rotation" supporters....

Would "field rotation" explain why I have seen what appears to be a star in the sky at appearing about 4:58 pm est time today next to the moon in maryland?

Or am I just seeing jupiter next to the moon, in the DAYTIME sky, with the naked eye?

Also why are the various radar maps available to us on the web out of sync with GOV weather radar sites?

Could that be field rotation as well?
yoda

Don't let them fool ya, or even try to rule ya
m_astera

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12/15/2010 12:23 AM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
Is it possible different different regions of Earth see different moons?



Is this a real question?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 991880


I'm assuming it's a real question. My explanation is that GLP is being accessed from two or more different parallel realities. Otherwise I would have to assume that there are grown people in the world who have never watched the moon or sun or stars rise and set throughout the year, and who are also so totally ficking stupid that they can't understand some basic logic like rotation, tilt, and light sources.

Sun, moon and stars are in the right place, where they have always been, on the Earth where I am. On the parallel Earth, things seemingly are different.
Anonymous Coward
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12/15/2010 08:57 AM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
[link to en.wikipedia.org]



Correct, it's called a "wet moon" and is mentioned in literature as far back as Shakespeare.


Bullshit. It tilts/it's normal - it has turned (according o my son), it rises much lower than we've ever seen before, etc...quite confusing.

NOT normal - end of discussion...!


I agree definitely not normal, what we are seeing with moon and sun.

Big question for the "field rotation" supporters....

Would "field rotation" explain why I have seen what appears to be a star in the sky at appearing about 4:58 pm est time today next to the moon in maryland?

Or am I just seeing jupiter next to the moon, in the DAYTIME sky, with the naked eye?

Also why are the various radar maps available to us on the web out of sync with GOV weather radar sites?

Could that be field rotation as well?
yoda

Don't let them fool ya, or even try to rule ya
 Quoting: Himbe Uhuru 7 1193135



Yes, and yes, you can certainly see both Venus and Jupiter in daytime skies if you know where to look.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 991880
United States
12/15/2010 09:01 AM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
Viewing Jupiter in daylight...

[link to www.iceinspace.com.au]

and Venus in daylight...

[link to www.fourmilab.ch]
Anonymous Coward
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12/15/2010 09:01 AM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
well, i have had 60 yrs of looking at the moon and in the past couple months i have noticed that the moon is lit on the bottom instead of the side like always, why is that?


I don't think you have been paying attention. Have you ever wondered about the ancient folklore regarding the terms "wet moon" and "dry moon"?

Have a look:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Setheory 869850

Very interesting. The Hawaiians were responsible for this explantion...they have some very unique ideas about astronomy and legends that deserve our attention.

Here is the Wiki blurb:

The terms Wet moon and Dry moon originate from Hawaiian mythology, where it was thought that the moon appeared as a bowl which would fill up with rain. The period where this is most common, January 20 - February 18, corresponds with Kaelo the Water Bearer in Hawaiian astrology and makes the moon known as the "Dripping wet moon". As the year passes into summer, the crescent shape shifts, pouring out the water and causing the summer rains. After the "bowl" empties, it dries out and rights itself, creating the "dry moon".
AstronutModerator
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12/15/2010 09:01 AM

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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
In other words - here is my question - does the moon which revolves around the earth show the same field rotation effect as the fixed stars?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1048292

Yes. The rate of rotation is slightly reduced because the moon takes longer to transit the sky than the stars do; the moon is orbiting west to east, but at a rate much slower than that of the earth's rotation. Other than that, field rotation is the same for the moon as it is for anything else.
astrobanner2
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12/15/2010 09:32 AM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
it baffles the hell out of me how some of you guys refuse to acknowledge you are wrong about this tilt. Even i remember being thought about this in high school back in the mid 90's.

Like someone else put it ..it seems to me that some of you guys really want shit to be messed up and crazy which is sad..

GLP is not for weak minded people..i been seeing people fall off their rocker around here for years now. They allow some of the BS posted here to affect their own understanding. You guys gotta be careful in what you fall for and keep a strong mind otherwise you have no business being in sites like GLP.

GLP is fun to read, get quick "legit" info here and there as well but use your head and stop believing every doom post posted here..its like cancer, it will spread in your mind and truly turn your world upside down if you allow it to do so.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
12/15/2010 09:39 AM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
No, it has NOT...not where we live.
We've seen the moon through the whole winter - we do not have sunlight for 2 months.

It may not be as noticeable, but unless you're standing on the north pole, field rotation will affect all alt-az based views.
By the way: Nothing is for free...always a catch..! ;)

This is ridiculous; show me where it is. The source code is open and available. Where is the conspiracy?
 Quoting: Astronut




astro is right!
Anonymous Coward
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12/15/2010 09:53 AM
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Re: ~ MOON TILT 90 DEGREES IN 8 HOURS-? ~
The mentality of some posters being so hostile to actual facts and learning is what disappoints me. They see something that they've never noticed before and instantly jump to the conclusion that since THEY'VE never seen it, it just MUST be something new and here come the evil scientists to tell us that it's normal, when they somehow "know" it's not.

One poster even said that he just "knew" that the moon was wrong (even though he couldn't say why) and no one could tell him any differently. I sure hope that poster doesn't have any kids to be runined by such an ignorant mindset.

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