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Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc

 
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
"1. Testament of Solomon, son of David, who was king in Jerusalem, and mastered and controlled all spirits of the air, on the earth, and under the earth [demons]. By means of them also he wrought all the transcendent works of the Temple. Telling also of the authorities they wield against men, and by what angels these demons are brought to naught."

So Solomon is the son, David is the father.

The father gave his son a flying car.

The son is now master of the air.

But he gives the flying car to the Queen of Sheba.

Now there seems to be basically three types of flying cars based on old Vedic Indian texts.

One of which can go planet to planet.

I'm thinking this is a dimensional craft that goes between the many Earths and not say from Earth to Mars.

[link to www.lvl39.com]

I for one do not trust Man to understand the Word of the creator never mind be able to write it down or translate it into the intended true meaning....
 Quoting: Reble


in many ancient texts, the word "earth" with a little "e" means "planet"
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
"1. Testament of Solomon, son of David, who was king in Jerusalem, and mastered and controlled all spirits of the air, on the earth, and under the earth [demons]. By means of them also he wrought all the transcendent works of the Temple. Telling also of the authorities they wield against men, and by what angels these demons are brought to naught."

So Solomon is the son, David is the father.

The father gave his son a flying car.

The son is now master of the air.

But he gives the flying car to the Queen of Sheba.

Now there seems to be basically three types of flying cars based on old Vedic Indian texts.

One of which can go planet to planet.

I'm thinking this is a dimensional craft that goes between the many Earths and not say from Earth to Mars.

[link to www.lvl39.com]

I for one do not trust Man to understand the Word of the creator never mind be able to write it down or translate it into the intended true meaning....


in many ancient texts, the word "earth" with a little "e" means "planet"
 Quoting: Salt & Light


That would explain the godhead proposing to the gods the creation of the earths then.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
OP, I have a question regarding Solomon. I'm just not sure how to phrase it...

Ok. Per the Bible Solomon was given the task of building the Temple by God (after denying the request of David to do it). So according to this testament, demons helped him do it - the ability to control them also being given by God.

Is this the foundation of Freemasonry? When did this group go from working for God to working against Him as I believe it's clear that they do now?

Sorry if I'm missing something that's obvious to everyone else. I'm having trouble digesting this.
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
OP, I have a question regarding Solomon. I'm just not sure how to phrase it...

Ok. Per the Bible Solomon was given the task of building the Temple by God (after denying the request of David to do it). So according to this testament, demons helped him do it - the ability to control them also being given by God.

Is this the foundation of Freemasonry? When did this group go from working for God to working against Him as I believe it's clear that they do now?

Sorry if I'm missing something that's obvious to everyone else. I'm having trouble digesting this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1113553



i am not completely studied on the freemasonry, but from the small portions i have read, freemasonry was birthed during this time or perhaps a bit earlier.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
The history of Freemasonry studies the development, evolution and events of the fraternal organization known as Freemasonry. This history is generally separated into two time periods: before and after the formation of the Grand Lodge of England in 1717. Before this time, the facts and origins of Freemasonry are not absolutely known and are therefore frequently explained by theories or legends. After the formation of the Grand Lodge of England, the history of Freemasonry is extremely well-documented and can be traced through the creation of hundreds of Grand Lodges that spread rapidly worldwide.

In recent years professional historians have added an entirely new dimension by studying the impact of Freemasonry on the history of Europe and America in the 18th century.

Origin theories of speculative freemasonry

In its ritual context, Freemasonry employs an allegorical foundation myth: the foundation of the fraternity by the builders of King Solomon’s Temple.

Beyond myth, there is a distinct absence of documentation as to Freemasonry’s origins, which has led to a great deal of speculation among historians and pseudo-historians alike, both from within and from outside the fraternity. Hundreds of books have been written on the subject. Much of the content of these books is highly speculative, and the precise origins of Freemasonry may very well be permanently lost to history. Some[who?] believe the scant evidence that is available points to the origins of Freemasonry as a fraternity that simply evolved out of the lodges of operative stonemasons of the Middle Ages. Others[who?] have disputed whether stone masons were ever organized formally into guilds, and have criticized the suggestion that Freemasonry evolved out of such organizations as a trite myth, stemming merely from the fact that the fraternity uses stone masonry as the core allegory for the organization of its symbolism. In any event, the matter of the origins of Freemasonry continues to puzzle and mystify historians.

The origin of Freemasonry has variously been attributed to: King Solomon and the construction of the Temple in Jerusalem, Euclid or Pythagoras, Moses, the Essenes, the Culdees, the Druids, the Gypsies, or the Rosicrucians,[2] not to mention the intellectual descendants of Noah.[3] Some of the more popular theories include Freemasonry being an offshoot of the ancient mystery schools,[4][5] or that it is an institutional outgrowth of the medieval guilds of stonemasons,[6][7] or that it is a direct descendant of the the Knights Templar.[3][8]

There are other lesser-known theories, such as:

* The construction of the Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland (1440–1490) provided the interface between the Knights Templar and Freemasonry. Accordingly, the First Degree and Mark Masonry was introduced by William Sinclair, the alleged first Grand Master and founder of Freemasonry.[9]
* Freemasonry is the intellectual descendant of the Roman Collegia.[10]
* Freemasonry is the intellectual descendant of the Comacine masters.[11]
* Freemasonry had its beginnings particularly in the German Steinmetzen, or the French Compagnonage.[2]
* Freemasonry was created by Francis Bacon, Oliver Cromwell, or the Stuart pretenders to the British Crown.[2]
* Freemasonry was a result of Sir Christopher Wren and the rebuilding of St. Paul's Cathedral.[2]

wikipedia
Magnus74

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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
The history of Freemasonry studies the development, evolution and events of the fraternal organization known as Freemasonry. This history is generally separated into two time periods: before and after the formation of the Grand Lodge of England in 1717. Before this time, the facts and origins of Freemasonry are not absolutely known and are therefore frequently explained by theories or legends. After the formation of the Grand Lodge of England, the history of Freemasonry is extremely well-documented and can be traced through the creation of hundreds of Grand Lodges that spread rapidly worldwide.

In recent years professional historians have added an entirely new dimension by studying the impact of Freemasonry on the history of Europe and America in the 18th century.

Origin theories of speculative freemasonry

In its ritual context, Freemasonry employs an allegorical foundation myth: the foundation of the fraternity by the builders of King Solomon’s Temple.

Beyond myth, there is a distinct absence of documentation as to Freemasonry’s origins, which has led to a great deal of speculation among historians and pseudo-historians alike, both from within and from outside the fraternity. Hundreds of books have been written on the subject. Much of the content of these books is highly speculative, and the precise origins of Freemasonry may very well be permanently lost to history. Some[who?] believe the scant evidence that is available points to the origins of Freemasonry as a fraternity that simply evolved out of the lodges of operative stonemasons of the Middle Ages. Others[who?] have disputed whether stone masons were ever organized formally into guilds, and have criticized the suggestion that Freemasonry evolved out of such organizations as a trite myth, stemming merely from the fact that the fraternity uses stone masonry as the core allegory for the organization of its symbolism. In any event, the matter of the origins of Freemasonry continues to puzzle and mystify historians.

The origin of Freemasonry has variously been attributed to: King Solomon and the construction of the Temple in Jerusalem, Euclid or Pythagoras, Moses, the Essenes, the Culdees, the Druids, the Gypsies, or the Rosicrucians,[2] not to mention the intellectual descendants of Noah.[3] Some of the more popular theories include Freemasonry being an offshoot of the ancient mystery schools,[4][5] or that it is an institutional outgrowth of the medieval guilds of stonemasons,[6][7] or that it is a direct descendant of the the Knights Templar.[3][8]

There are other lesser-known theories, such as:

* The construction of the Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland (1440–1490) provided the interface between the Knights Templar and Freemasonry. Accordingly, the First Degree and Mark Masonry was introduced by William Sinclair, the alleged first Grand Master and founder of Freemasonry.[9]
* Freemasonry is the intellectual descendant of the Roman Collegia.[10]
* Freemasonry is the intellectual descendant of the Comacine masters.[11]
* Freemasonry had its beginnings particularly in the German Steinmetzen, or the French Compagnonage.[2]
* Freemasonry was created by Francis Bacon, Oliver Cromwell, or the Stuart pretenders to the British Crown.[2]
* Freemasonry was a result of Sir Christopher Wren and the rebuilding of St. Paul's Cathedral.[2]

wikipedia
 Quoting: Salt & Light


I am sure they ascribe their history to Solomon- and if this testament is true, who knows what influence the demons who helped construct the temple had on the human masons. they would have seen all the mysterious works and passed down the secrets form generation to generation. Thanks for posting.
"When you come to behead me, be careful not to bruise the face."
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
continued....
Whenever men come to be enamoured of women, I metamorphose myself into a comely female [note here that it is not female, it takes the form of a female]; and I take hold of the men in their sleep, and play with them.

Nikki
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196307

Jessica X_x
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
I am sure they ascribe their history to Solomon- and if this testament is true, who knows what influence the demons who helped construct the temple had on the human masons. they would have seen all the mysterious works and passed down the secrets form generation to generation. Thanks for posting.
 Quoting: Magnus74



i think the freemasons is some form of witchcraft in a way. that is not a good word to express what i am trying to say.
aether
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
i think the freemasons is some form of witchcraft in a way. that is not a good word to express what i am trying to say.
 Quoting: Salt and Light


these quotes reflect the motivation of freemasonay

"Masonry propagates no creed except it's own most simple sublime one; that universal religion, taught by nature and reason."
Albert Pike, in "Morals & Dogma", wrote (Pg.718)

"In the early Church as in the secret doctrine, there was not one Christ for the world but a potential Christ in every man. Theologians first made a fetish of the impersonal, Omnipresent divinity; and then tore the Christos from the hearts of all humanity in order to Deify Jesus; that they might have a God-Man particularly their own."
J.D. Buck, M.D.,Symbolism of Mystic Masonry wrote (Pg.57)

i imagine
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
i think the freemasons is some form of witchcraft in a way. that is not a good word to express what i am trying to say.

these quotes reflect the motivation of freemasonay

"Masonry propagates no creed except it's own most simple sublime one; that universal religion, taught by nature and reason."
Albert Pike, in "Morals & Dogma", wrote (Pg.718)

"In the early Church as in the secret doctrine, there was not one Christ for the world but a potential Christ in every man. Theologians first made a fetish of the impersonal, Omnipresent divinity; and then tore the Christos from the hearts of all humanity in order to Deify Jesus; that they might have a God-Man particularly their own."
J.D. Buck, M.D.,Symbolism of Mystic Masonry wrote (Pg.57)

i imagine
 Quoting: aether 1187276


the pivotal satanic movement.... we are all gods of our own choosing
Maxim(nli)
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
ok, i have now lost all and any shred of respect for the show Decoded.... ridiculous mental midgets
 Quoting: Salt & Light


Ditto!!!
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
Hello, this is Markus Allen. Host of the top conspiracy show truth in 7 minutes.


Learn the truth about the global conspiracy, 9-11, and the level of infiltration in the alternative media.This is the truth site that the mainstream (CNN) and alternative media (Alex Jones) do not want you to see.

[link to truthin7minutes.com]
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
i think the freemasons is some form of witchcraft in a way. that is not a good word to express what i am trying to say.

these quotes reflect the motivation of freemasonay

"Masonry propagates no creed except it's own most simple sublime one; that universal religion, taught by nature and reason."
Albert Pike, in "Morals & Dogma", wrote (Pg.718)

"In the early Church as in the secret doctrine, there was not one Christ for the world but a potential Christ in every man. Theologians first made a fetish of the impersonal, Omnipresent divinity; and then tore the Christos from the hearts of all humanity in order to Deify Jesus; that they might have a God-Man particularly their own."
J.D. Buck, M.D.,Symbolism of Mystic Masonry wrote (Pg.57)

i imagine


the pivotal satanic movement.... we are all gods of our own choosing
 Quoting: Salt & Light


aether
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
merry christmas

i woke up today to solomon's temple feed back on uk television within "the man who would be king" movie, thanks to immersing in salt and lights thread
 Quoting: aether


Thread: The field of HUMAN ENERGY (Page 49)
aether
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
when you have time salt and light... maybe you will listen to leo...not so much his thoughts of our future but what he says about the structure and history of cultures

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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
thank you. i will have lots of time now that Christmas as near over, lol
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
Magnus74

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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
You were right Salt and Light, your old avatar did look just like you. I like your new one much better. Thanks again for the great discussion.

hf
"When you come to behead me, be careful not to bruise the face."
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
You were right Salt and Light, your old avatar did look just like you. I like your new one much better. Thanks again for the great discussion.

hf
 Quoting: Magnus74

Thanks Magnus. you are welcome.
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
Ok, so I was watching this show on History channel last night about the freemasons. Sir Isaac Newton was a freemason, a big, important one. I did not know he was absolutely obsessed with King Solomon's temple. (he was also an alchemist looking for a way to transform base metals into gold... anyway)

Newton, as a result, formulated a law of universal gravitation which is based on the building of Solomon's temple. If you read back to the text of Sol's book, it shows how the demons levitated the big stones into place, and especially the cornerstone...

Newton knew something, the freemasons KNEW something, it all ties together...



From wikipedia:

Newton's law of universal gravitation states that every massive particle in the universe attracts every other massive particle with a force which is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. (Separately it was shown that large spherically-symmetrical masses attract and are attracted as if all their mass were concentrated at their centers.) This is a general physical law derived from empirical observations by what Newton called induction.[1] It is a part of classical mechanics and was formulated in Newton's work Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica ("the Principia"), first published on 5 July 1687. (When Newton's book was presented in 1686 to the Royal Society, Robert Hooke made a claim that Newton had obtained the inverse square law from him – see History section below.) In modern language, the law states the following:

Every point mass attracts every single other point mass by a force pointing along the line intersecting both points. The force is directly proportional to the product of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses:

[link to upload.wikimedia.org]

where:

* F is the magnitude of the gravitational force between the two point masses,
* G is the gravitational constant,
* m1 is the mass of the first point mass,
* m2 is the mass of the second point mass, and
* r is the distance between the two point masses.
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
The Testament of Solomon, translated by F. C. Conybeare



[link to www.yankeeclassic.com]
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
the numeric value of the antichrist is 666.
 Quoting: Salt & Light


666 = 18 = 9 (closure)

666 is an abundant number. It is the sum of the first 36 natural numbers (i.e. 1 + 2 + 3... + 34 + 35 + 36 = 666), and thus a triangular number. Since 36 is both square and triangular, 666 is the sixth number of the form n2(n2 + 1) / 2 (triangular squares) and the eighth number of the form n(n + 1)(n2 + n + 2) / 8 (doubly triangular numbers.)
666 is the sum of the squares of the first seven prime numbers (i.e. 22 + 32 + 52 + 72 + 112 + 132 + 172 = 666). The harmonic mean of the decimal digits of 666 is an integer: 3/(1/6 + 1/6 + 1/6) = 6, making 666 the 54th number with this property. In base 10, 666 is a palindromic number, a repdigit and a Smith number. A prime reciprocal magic square based on 1/149 in base 10 has a magic total of 666.

The Roman numeral representation of the number 666 (DCLXVI) uses once each the Roman numeral symbols with values under 1,000, occurring in descending order of their respective values (D = 500, C = 100, L = 50, X = 10, V = 5, I = 1).

666 is a member of the Indices of prime Padovan sequence, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 14, 19, 30, 37, 84, 128, 469, 666, 1262, 1573, 2003, 2210, ....

In other fields

666 is referred to as the Number of the Beast in the Book of the Revelation (see Revelation 13:17-18).
In the Eastern Orthodox Church, 666 is considered to be symbolic. Because 666 in Greek numerals stands for the Christ for man because the man was created the sixth day of Genesis and the serpent, represented what came between them.
In War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy, the main hero (Pierre Bezukhov) uses numerology to show that Napoleon Bonaparte is the Antichrist. Bezukhov then finds the same to be true for his own name when the French version of his nationality is added. [1] Mistakes in both calculations are often noted in the reviews. Since the "sine of the Devil" sin (666°) = -1/2 times the golden ratio, this expression has been paraphrased by the humorous quip "The sign of the devil is the opposite of good, but only half as strong." Note that (sin 306°) and (sin -54°) are mathematically synonymous with (sin 666°). Vicarius Filii Dei, an epithet for the Pope which means literally "vicar of the son of God", adds up to 666 if only the letters with Roman numeral values are included. This epithet was never used by the Catholic church itself and was likely invented by a person who believed that the Antichrist would be a Pope.
666 was used as a nickname by Aleister Crowley, an occultist who styled himself as the Beast referred to in the Book of the Revelation.
The UPC barcodes found on most commercial products are characterized by guard bars at the beginning, middle and end made up of two thin lines. Two thin lines also appear in the UPC encoding for the digit 6 (and no other digit), and so to human eyes (but not to an electronic barcode reader) the guard bars appear to read 666. Some people interpret this as a fulfillment of the prophecy "Without this number an individual will not be able to buy or sell" (cited from the Book of the Revelation 13:17).[3]
The 2006 remake of the horror film The Omen was released on June 6, 2006 (06/06/06) at 06:06:06 in the morning.
The full name of former U.S. President Ronald Wilson Reagan contains six letters in each of his three names. This caused a few numerologists to believe that Reagan was in fact the antichrist, such as Gary D. Blevins. Additionally, when Reagan moved to California following the end of his presidency, he asked that his house number be changed from 666 to 668. [4]
666 is the port number used by the game Doom when playing against another player via TCP.
Most versions of the computer game Lemmings feature a level called "All the 6's ...". The level layout features three 6's built upon the "hellish" lava terrain set, 66 Lemmings and 66 of every skill, a time limit of 6 minutes, a release rate of 66, and the player must rescue 66% of the Lemmings.
In Chinese culture, 666 sounds a lot like the words 'Things going smoothly'. It is considered one of the luckiest numbers in Chinese culture. It can be seen prominently in many shop windows across the country, and people there often pay extra to get a mobile phone number including this string of digits.
The numeric sequence 6-6-6 is Waw-Waw-Waw ("WWW") in Hebrew, since in Hebrew, letters have numerical values. The decimal number 666, however, is Taw-Resch-Samech-Waw (400-200-60-6), since in Hebrew, hundreds, tens and ones have different characters.
666 is the amount of gold talents that King Solomon collected in a single year.
666 is the number of Adonikam's descendants who return to Jerusalem and Judah from the Babylonian exile.
[link to www.crystalinks.com]
 Quoting: EM 1196437



chmod 644
chmod 666
Gman
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
If Soloman had the demon of desire bound, who was it that tempted him? Wasn't it his desire that drove him to worship other gods and ultimately fall?
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
If Soloman had the demon of desire bound, who was it that tempted him? Wasn't it his desire that drove him to worship other gods and ultimately fall?
 Quoting: Gman 1144115


all that time with demons and then sexual lust took the man down...
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
CHAPTER THREE LEVI - CARBUNCLE

“Arise O Spirit of Judgment, stir up the Four Winds and the Four Angels bound at the river Euphrates. I, the sovereign Lord will stir up the Assyrian, as archer and bend the bow of the princes of Ishmael. Your righteousness and duplicity, Daughters of Harlotry is transparent to these who follow the War God of Islam, in submission to the evil One.”
“Therefore, from the first day of the sacrifice in the Temple of Doom, Witness of Ephraim, I will stir the Angel of Judgments to cast Terrors upon the whole earth, to work their evil schemes. Then they will feel the grip of

The evil one stalks a prey and I reveal it to my servants the prophets. Those who hear these words, who heed and obey, will escape 'through' the days of trouble, as my people did to the land of Goshen, when I sent the plagues upon the land of Egypt.
 Quoting: YAHisking 1008481


So, the evil one stalks a "prey"...but G-d is the one in charge of the killing? Or, who is after whom? The angel of Judgement?

Just checking


Ps. Love the long, angry monologs, especially because one NEVER sees really long ANGRY posts featuring G-d these days, y'know hf
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
NOT ALIEN TECHNOLOGY. ADVANCED SURVIVOR RACE TECHNOLOGY.
Phat Daddy

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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
bookmarking for later read
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
NOT ALIEN TECHNOLOGY. ADVANCED SURVIVOR RACE TECHNOLOGY.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1259318


agreed, but aren't the two synonymous?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1139725
United States
02/19/2011 09:20 PM
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
bookmarking for later read
 Quoting: Phat Daddy


woohoo! this thread still has a slight pulse.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/10/2011 10:11 AM
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Re: Testament of Solomon, a discussion of angels & demons (ETs). Many great mysteries solved: building of temple/pyramids, capstone, etc
bump by special request

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