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Christians and an openly gay military.

 
ZTE

User ID: 779511
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12/20/2010 12:08 PM

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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
Acts 15

19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”


The bolded part merely means that the scriptures were read on the Sabbath. Not that I am to specifically follow the Hebrew Sabbath.

I don't have to follow those laws specifically and no man who has ever walked this earth has ever followed those laws to perfection. The Law is much deeper than the statues Hebrews were to follow.

Matthew 7:12
 “All things, therefore, that YOU want men to do to YOU, YOU also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.
 Quoting: SLAYER!!



Sorry, I should have asked why did James (Ya'aqob) quote the bold part? My answer is to show that the gentiles knew "of" the law already. There was no reason to go and tell the gentiles "what to do," because they already knew what to do.

My argument is that because we do not preach the Law and Prophets, the "gentiles" today do not know what to do. They do whatever they want.

Judges 21:25
In those days Israel had no king; all the people did whatever seemed right in their own eyes.


That phrase is repeated over and over and over in Judges, and everytime it is repeated, the Israelites were taken into captivity or had an army upon them. That is the mentality of most churches of this day, and we are about to suffer the same fate as they did.

Deuteronomy 6 is all you "need" (love YHWH with all your heart, soul, mind)....but you should "want" more than the bare necessity.

Mt. 5
19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.


People who not only reject the law, but tell others not to follow it still make it to the Kingdom! How merciful and gracious is that!!!

However, you should not just settle for being the least in the kingdom. Sanctification is the gradual returning to YHWH, by following his Word and Commands. You should want to be the greatest, not the least.

If you're happy with being the least, then that's fine; but at the same time, you shouldn't criticize others for trying to follow the Law or say that it has been "done away with."

I don't think you have on this thread specifically, but from what I see, that is the mentality you portray.
If you can justify killing one man, you can justify killing every man.

The Greatest Lie is the one never told, but assumed.

History isn't a measure of our successes, but the compilation of our mistakes.
GUANO

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12/20/2010 12:09 PM
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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
Most Christians openly support gay-dom these days anyways.

... There isn't much of a difference between them and anyone else in the world...
Total Protonic Reversal...
SLAYER!! (OP)

User ID: 967570
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12/20/2010 12:25 PM
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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
Acts 15

19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”


The bolded part merely means that the scriptures were read on the Sabbath. Not that I am to specifically follow the Hebrew Sabbath.

I don't have to follow those laws specifically and no man who has ever walked this earth has ever followed those laws to perfection. The Law is much deeper than the statues Hebrews were to follow.

Matthew 7:12
 “All things, therefore, that YOU want men to do to YOU, YOU also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.



Sorry, I should have asked why did James (Ya'aqob) quote the bold part? My answer is to show that the gentiles knew "of" the law already. There was no reason to go and tell the gentiles "what to do," because they already knew what to do.

My argument is that because we do not preach the Law and Prophets, the "gentiles" today do not know what to do. They do whatever they want.

Judges 21:25
In those days Israel had no king; all the people did whatever seemed right in their own eyes.


That phrase is repeated over and over and over in Judges, and everytime it is repeated, the Israelites were taken into captivity or had an army upon them. That is the mentality of most churches of this day, and we are about to suffer the same fate as they did.

Deuteronomy 6 is all you "need" (love YHWH with all your heart, soul, mind)....but you should "want" more than the bare necessity.

Mt. 5
19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.


People who not only reject the law, but tell others not to follow it still make it to the Kingdom! How merciful and gracious is that!!!

However, you should not just settle for being the least in the kingdom. Sanctification is the gradual returning to YHWH, by following his Word and Commands. You should want to be the greatest, not the least.

If you're happy with being the least, then that's fine; but at the same time, you shouldn't criticize others for trying to follow the Law or say that it has been "done away with."

I don't think you have on this thread specifically, but from what I see, that is the mentality you portray.
 Quoting: ZTE

Don't get me wrong. I am not criticizing you if you want to follow the old statues. I, as a gentile, do not have to follow the law of Moses down to specifics.

Remember the pupose of the Law of Moses.
Galatians 3:19
 Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator.

If you boil down all the old statues and decrees from the Old Testament this is what they mean:

Matthew 22
34 After the Pharisees heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

If you wish to follow the Festivals of Weeks or Booths or follow the Hebrew Sabbath that's fine, I would never tell you to do otherwise.
SLAYER!! (OP)

User ID: 967570
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12/20/2010 12:26 PM
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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
Most Christians openly support gay-dom these days anyways.

... There isn't much of a difference between them and anyone else in the world...
 Quoting: GUANO

I would have to agree with you.
Rex Khristos

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12/20/2010 12:33 PM
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Thou shalt not kill is also in the bible?


.
... ah ... that is MURDER ... not kill ...
.
... learn your Hebrew ...
.
... BIG difference between murder and kill ...
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1184138

How about "Thou shalt not invade other countries unnecessarily, undermine their infrastructure and make them crippled dependents."
"And though I believe in the ineffable glory of God, and though I might have experienced the undeniable reality of the Deity, and though I may know the secrets of the ages, these do not fulfill the Love in my heart. But to Change and Be and Do and dissolve both the subject of my person and the object of my God into the fluency of Empirical Providence. The Way, the Truth, and the Life."
ZTE

User ID: 779511
United States
12/20/2010 12:38 PM

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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
Don't get me wrong. I am not criticizing you if you want to follow the old statues. I, as a gentile, do not have to follow the law of Moses down to specifics.

Remember the pupose of the Law of Moses.
Galatians 3:19
 Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator.

If you boil down all the old statues and decrees from the Old Testament this is what they mean:

Matthew 22
34 After the Pharisees heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

If you wish to follow the Festivals of Weeks or Booths or follow the Hebrew Sabbath that's fine, I would never tell you to do otherwise.
 Quoting: SLAYER!!



That's perfectly fine. I'm just curious why you wouldn't want to follow them?

The festivals are great because they point out what YHWH did for the Israelites as well as point to YHSWH, and they also point what he will do again (Day of YHWH).

I'm not trying to convince you to follow them. Just asking why you wouldn't want to follow them or at least learn about them (and maybe not even you personally, but protestantism as a whole)? Personally, they bring much more joy than the paganized holidays the world celebrates.


Nobody ever "had" to follow the commands, because it's very evident that the Israelites rarely did. However, those who did follow the commands in order to learn about YHWH with all their heart, soul and mind were blessed and rewarded. But even they died eventually.

So it's not about being "under" the law, it is about being "with" the law.

Again, not trying to tell you to do this or that, just asking what is so tough (or why are people so adverse) to following the laws?


Like I said, it's not about being "saved" or not, it is about being greater or lesser after salvation (sanctification). Learning more about YHWH (knowledge of YHWH) and what is pleasing to Him.
If you can justify killing one man, you can justify killing every man.

The Greatest Lie is the one never told, but assumed.

History isn't a measure of our successes, but the compilation of our mistakes.
SLAYER!! (OP)

User ID: 967570
United States
12/20/2010 12:49 PM
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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
Don't get me wrong. I am not criticizing you if you want to follow the old statues. I, as a gentile, do not have to follow the law of Moses down to specifics.

Remember the pupose of the Law of Moses.
Galatians 3:19
 Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator.

If you boil down all the old statues and decrees from the Old Testament this is what they mean:

Matthew 22
34 After the Pharisees heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

If you wish to follow the Festivals of Weeks or Booths or follow the Hebrew Sabbath that's fine, I would never tell you to do otherwise.



That's perfectly fine. I'm just curious why you wouldn't want to follow them?

The festivals are great because they point out what YHWH did for the Israelites as well as point to YHSWH, and they also point what he will do again (Day of YHWH).

I'm not trying to convince you to follow them. Just asking why you wouldn't want to follow them or at least learn about them (and maybe not even you personally, but protestantism as a whole)? Personally, they bring much more joy than the paganized holidays the world celebrates.


Nobody ever "had" to follow the commands, because it's very evident that the Israelites rarely did. However, those who did follow the commands in order to learn about YHWH with all their heart, soul and mind were blessed and rewarded. But even they died eventually.

So it's not about being "under" the law, it is about being "with" the law.

Again, not trying to tell you to do this or that, just asking what is so tough (or why are people so adverse) to following the laws?


Like I said, it's not about being "saved" or not, it is about being greater or lesser after salvation (sanctification). Learning more about YHWH (knowledge of YHWH) and what is pleasing to Him.
 Quoting: ZTE

I don't follow them because I have never been exposed to them. I am not of Hebrew blood. More power to you if you do. I don't see anything wrong wth that.

I also don't follow any of this world's pagan holidays.
ZTE

User ID: 779511
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12/20/2010 01:08 PM

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I don't follow them because I have never been exposed to them. I am not of Hebrew blood. More power to you if you do. I don't see anything wrong wth that.

I also don't follow any of this world's pagan holidays.
 Quoting: SLAYER!!


Well if you have a Bible you have carry them with you. I'm sure you mean that you haven't been exposed to a living example, but you could always be the first. At the least, you can always look through the concordance of Torah commands and check off all the ones you do. Not to be legalistic, but to be encouraged about how many you already follow in ignorance! How much greater is it to follow the commands in knowledge and understanding instead of ignorance.

You might be surprised to know what really is in your blood. Those 10 tribes went to all corners of the Earth during the dispersion and intermixed with the Celts, Asians, Russians and Africans.

Physical example...

Galatians 3
29 If you belong to YHSWH Messiah, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Spiritual example...

Galatians 4
28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac (Yitzak), are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

In other words, get rid of the gentile heritage and wrap yourself in the heritage and inheritance of Yitzak (and Abraham).


Of course the absolute best example is in Acts 29 - for it is how Sha'ul witnessed to people, not how he criticized their actions after he witnessed to them.
If you can justify killing one man, you can justify killing every man.

The Greatest Lie is the one never told, but assumed.

History isn't a measure of our successes, but the compilation of our mistakes.
SLAYER!! (OP)

User ID: 967570
United States
12/20/2010 01:42 PM
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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
I don't follow them because I have never been exposed to them. I am not of Hebrew blood. More power to you if you do. I don't see anything wrong wth that.

I also don't follow any of this world's pagan holidays.


Well if you have a Bible you have carry them with you. I'm sure you mean that you haven't been exposed to a living example, but you could always be the first. At the least, you can always look through the concordance of Torah commands and check off all the ones you do. Not to be legalistic, but to be encouraged about how many you already follow in ignorance! How much greater is it to follow the commands in knowledge and understanding instead of ignorance.

You might be surprised to know what really is in your blood. Those 10 tribes went to all corners of the Earth during the dispersion and intermixed with the Celts, Asians, Russians and Africans.

Physical example...

Galatians 3
29 If you belong to YHSWH Messiah, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Spiritual example...

Galatians 4
28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac (Yitzak), are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

In other words, get rid of the gentile heritage and wrap yourself in the heritage and inheritance of Yitzak (and Abraham).


Of course the absolute best example is in Acts 29 - for it is how Sha'ul witnessed to people, not how he criticized their actions after he witnessed to them.
 Quoting: ZTE

Really, it doesn't matter my chemical makeup because YHWH doesn't care. All that matters is that I follow his standards that are explained in the Bible.

What is YHSWH?
ZTE

User ID: 779511
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12/20/2010 01:47 PM

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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
Really, it doesn't matter my chemical makeup because YHWH doesn't care. All that matters is that I follow his standards that are explained in the Bible.

What is YHSWH?
 Quoting: SLAYER!!



Heh, that was my point all along.


YHSWH is the Hebrew form of Yahushuwah. In my Scriptures, the name of THE Messiah is written YHSWH, which is in the same manner as YHWH, so to not take either name in vain (lesson the name or make it void of meaning).

Yahushuwah means "Salvation comes from YHWH" (Shuwah YHWH).


I love how both prophets Eliyahu and Elishuah contained the name Yahushuah when put together. Apart, they only contain half of a testimony, but together, they are complete.

Much of these gems are lost when "translated" into English.
If you can justify killing one man, you can justify killing every man.

The Greatest Lie is the one never told, but assumed.

History isn't a measure of our successes, but the compilation of our mistakes.
SLAYER!! (OP)

User ID: 967570
United States
12/20/2010 01:51 PM
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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
Really, it doesn't matter my chemical makeup because YHWH doesn't care. All that matters is that I follow his standards that are explained in the Bible.

What is YHSWH?



Heh, that was my point all along.


YHSWH is the Hebrew form of Yahushuwah. In my Scriptures, the name of THE Messiah is written YHSWH, which is in the same manner as YHWH, so to not take either name in vain (lesson the name or make it void of meaning).

Yahushuwah means "Salvation comes from YHWH" (Shuwah YHWH).


I love how both prophets Eliyahu and Elishuah contained the name Yahushuah when put together. Apart, they only contain half of a testimony, but together, they are complete.

Much of these gems are lost when "translated" into English.
 Quoting: ZTE

We will have to agree to disagree. I was aware of the meaning of Jesus' name.

Last Edited by SLAYER!! on 12/20/2010 01:53 PM
GUANO

User ID: 904461
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12/20/2010 02:59 PM
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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
Thou shalt not kill is also in the bible?


.
... ah ... that is MURDER ... not kill ...
.
... learn your Hebrew ...
.
... BIG difference between murder and kill ...
.

How about "Thou shalt not invade other countries unnecessarily, undermine their infrastructure and make them crippled dependents."
 Quoting: Rex Khristos


You can't prosecute an incorporeal entity...
Total Protonic Reversal...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1115368
United States
12/20/2010 04:58 PM
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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
gives a whole new meaning to drop and give me 20..
Sadisticon
User ID: 1405954
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05/29/2011 02:32 PM
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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
wtf - really, deeply, truly, wtf. If dude is so obsessed with homosexuals that he can't stand to think of serving in the military maybe he should get out? And then he wants other people to abide by (1)some antiquated document that has been heavily edited, altered and redacted over the course of 4,000 years and (2)his opinion? He needs to get over himself; go out and have someafro drinks with the guys...
Jordan
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05/29/2011 05:28 PM
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Re: Christians and an openly gay military.
I think all theses gay threads on this form both pro and anti are from one person, "YOU" You really need to come out of the closet baby.

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