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STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 01:43 AM
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STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
I'm somewhat of a collector of the strange and recently I came across this really strange Jade Ouroboros. It is unlike any of the traditional snake or dragon ouro's and appears to be a four legged sea serpent.

My question to the GLP members is where do you think it was made? It is definitely jade, as I tried to carve into it with a very sharp metal point and it wont scratch or dig into the material.

I thought due to the strange sea serpent design it could be ancient Mediterranean in origin.

I couldn't embed the slideshow so here's the link...

[link to s23.photobucket.com]
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 01:49 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
New Zealand, or aboriginal, looks a bit oriental tho

and crude.

good lucks
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 01:53 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
New Zealand, or aboriginal, looks a bit oriental tho

and crude.

good lucks
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 811871

The Vikings used this type of motif in their carvings, and metalwork,but never in jade,that I know of.....Nice piece.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/31/2010 01:58 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
New Zealand, or aboriginal, looks a bit oriental tho

and crude.

good lucks

The Vikings used this type of motif in their carvings, and metalwork,but never in jade,that I know of.....Nice piece.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1212161


Yes that's what I thought as well, but I tried searching for viking ouroboros on google and got nothing.

But if it is viking in origin, could it have been before Columbus, and actually carved by one of the South American pre-Colombian tribes after having contact with the Norsemen?
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 01:59 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
New Zealand, or aboriginal, looks a bit oriental tho

and crude.

good lucks

The Vikings used this type of motif in their carvings, and metalwork,but never in jade,that I know of.....Nice piece.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1212161

crap I was gonna say Vikings, however I was stuck on the overtly curvalinar styling.
.
that said, the paws are as, and the mouth and primitive style, certaily could be, the cheek area boasts a Scandanavian styled heart shape, also I feel that the Vikings portrayed their dragons more like large dogs.

for sale?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1166550
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12/31/2010 02:05 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
New Zealand, or aboriginal, looks a bit oriental tho

and crude.

good lucks

The Vikings used this type of motif in their carvings, and metalwork,but never in jade,that I know of.....Nice piece.

crap I was gonna say Vikings, however I was stuck on the overtly curvalinar styling.
.
that said, the paws are as, and the mouth and primitive style, certaily could be, the cheek area boasts a Scandanavian styled heart shape, also I feel that the Vikings portrayed their dragons more like large dogs.

for sale?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 811871


It's strange that everyone I show it too who knows a bit about archeology immediately thinks Vikings.

I will eventually sell after I find out the value.
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:11 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
:boros:
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:13 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Is Ouroboros a dragon or snake eating it tail? Are they in every country?

The reason I ask is the Moundsville Natives used a double snake eating their tails and tied together, on a trading disk, on the other side is a palm of a hand with a open eye in the center of the palm.

I have wondered why and what those things were called.
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:16 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
jormungand
viking name for that type dragon
not much jade in scandinavia though
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:17 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
New Zealand, or aboriginal, looks a bit oriental tho

and crude.

good lucks

The Vikings used this type of motif in their carvings, and metalwork,but never in jade,that I know of.....Nice piece.


Yes that's what I thought as well, but I tried searching for viking ouroboros on google and got nothing.

But if it is viking in origin, could it have been before Columbus, and actually carved by one of the South American pre-Colombian tribes after having contact with the Norsemen?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1166550

That's always a possibility, and there are many stories of the Vikings having traveled to the Americas,long before Columbus. Also,they travelled the Silk Road to the Orient,so,who knows? OP,you should try to find someone who specializes in jade carvings.
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
12/31/2010 02:28 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
most be chinese . maori carvings are different .
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:38 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Found something from a female Viking tomb that looks somewhat similar, although made from metal, you can see the influence.

[link to www.hgo.se]
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:44 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Bits of News - Viking Age Inca Indian Found in Norwegian Burial

[link to www.bitsofnews.com]
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:48 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
its a chinese koi carving . aprox 1910
only the chinees carved the cultivated carp (koi)
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:50 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
[link to www.knaptonandrasti.com]
Bluestone
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12/31/2010 02:51 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
first of all, do you know for sure that is Jade?

There are so many "Jade” pieces on the market, and yet only a small fraction are actually jade. I am not saying it isn't, I'm just questioning

Also, what makes you think it is old . it looks rather recent to my non-expert eye

As far as that Maori, I do not believe there is any instance of them using this simple until very recent times. Same with the Vikings.
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:53 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Bits of News - Viking Age Inca Indian Found in Norwegian Burial

[link to www.bitsofnews.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 664301


Thanks for that. It does tie in quite nicely. Still I can't help but consider it could also be of Chinese origin.
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:55 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Mayan Jade, circa 260-200 BC traded by early Chinese, The Chinese are postulated to have discovered the Americas around that time but the knowledge was lost to time. Some Bronze arrow heads bearing early Chinese character have been found and some of the early temples appear to have Oriental influence in design. If what you have is really from the suggested time period it would potentially be proof of Chinese involvement with early Aztec and Mayan.
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 02:56 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
first of all, do you know for sure that is Jade?

There are so many "Jade” pieces on the market, and yet only a small fraction are actually jade. I am not saying it isn't, I'm just questioning

Also, what makes you think it is old . it looks rather recent to my non-expert eye

As far as that Maori, I do not believe there is any instance of them using this simple until very recent times. Same with the Vikings.
 Quoting: Bluestone 1178645


Well I'm judging by the translucent property and the fact it wont scratch with a sharp metal blade which means it must have a hardness like Jade.

As for being old, I have no clue, but it looks quite old to me, and carved in a primitive style indicative of ancient artwork.
Bluestone
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12/31/2010 02:59 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Well I'm judging by the translucent property and the fact it wont scratch with a sharp metal blade which means it must have a hardness like Jade.

As for being old, I have no clue, but it looks quite old to me, and carved in a primitive style indicative of ancient artwork.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1212264


okay that is a good sign. If you can actually etch lines in a smooth metal surface, without damaging this, then most likely it is Jade

I saw a friend of mine do this many times with his jade pendant that he received from a Maori medicine man.just beware you may damage the peace if you try this and it isn't high-quality jade

but again, this really doesn't look old to me
Khim

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12/31/2010 03:01 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
[link to webcache.googleusercontent.com]

The serpent, when forming a ring with its tail in its mouth, is a clear and widespread symbol of the "All-in-All", the totality of existence, infinity and the cyclic nature of the cosmos. The most well known version of this is the Aegypto-Greek Ourobouros. It is believed to have been inspired by the Milky Way as some ancient texts refer to a serpent of light residing in the heavens. The Ancient Egyptians associated it with Wadjet, one of their oldest deities as well as another aspect, Hathor.
Bluestone
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12/31/2010 03:03 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Egypt and Greece are the only ancient civilizations known to have used this symbol. Was never used in ancient China, nor pre-Columbian North and/or South America
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 03:06 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
[link to webcache.googleusercontent.com]

The serpent, when forming a ring with its tail in its mouth, is a clear and widespread symbol of the "All-in-All", the totality of existence, infinity and the cyclic nature of the cosmos. The most well known version of this is the Aegypto-Greek Ourobouros. It is believed to have been inspired by the Milky Way as some ancient texts refer to a serpent of light residing in the heavens. The Ancient Egyptians associated it with Wadjet, one of their oldest deities as well as another aspect, Hathor.
 Quoting: Khim


Thanks Khim - ancient writings do mention serpents walking on legs at one time. Another interesting thing I just noticed, it has a form of the Ying & Yang in the center.
Bluestone
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12/31/2010 03:06 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Egypt and Greece are the only ancient civilizations known to have used this symbol. Was never used in ancient China, nor pre-Columbian North and/or South America
 Quoting: Bluestone 1178645


I should add that the Mayan did in fact have a symbol similar to this. Several times Quetzalcoatl was pictured looping back around to eat his own tale. But the style is completely different than the Egyptian/Grecian ourobouros
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 03:07 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Egypt and Greece are the only ancient civilizations known to have used this symbol. Was never used in ancient China, nor pre-Columbian North and/or South America
 Quoting: Bluestone 1178645


You might want to check this link and take note of the sea serpent Viking brooch at the top.

[link to www.hgo.se]
Bluestone
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12/31/2010 03:08 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Another interesting thing I just noticed, it has a form of the Ying & Yang in the center.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1212264


which should tell you this is a very modern piece. It is mixing together Egyptian and Chinese symbols. Only recent pieces do that
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 03:09 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Egypt and Greece are the only ancient civilizations known to have used this symbol. Was never used in ancient China, nor pre-Columbian North and/or South America


You might want to check this link and take note of the sea serpent Viking brooch at the top.

[link to www.hgo.se]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1212264



I was thinking it could be of Viking origin and not ancient in the truest sense.
Bluestone
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12/31/2010 03:10 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Egypt and Greece are the only ancient civilizations known to have used this symbol. Was never used in ancient China, nor pre-Columbian North and/or South America


You might want to check this link and take note of the sea serpent Viking brooch at the top.

[link to www.hgo.se]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1212264


yes, you can see that the head is tilted back but it is still quite a ways from its tail. It is clearly NOT eating its own tail, which is the defining aspect of the ouroboros

The thing that looks like it's connecting the mouth and the tail is actually the pin for the brooch itself
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2010 03:10 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
Check out the website TheJadeRoad.com. Interesting site about the Chinese in the Americas.You may find something there. Sorry,I can't link.
Anonymous Coward
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03/11/2013 11:51 PM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
You would have to no more about where this object was dug up, as items have moved around the world. where did you get this item from. never discount the African origins when doing you research as ancient Africa was source of all world history. due to migration patterns of early african people they ytook thier beliefs around the world to influence more newer cultures including the Americas. this object is it old?, hard to tell. The Snake is a widely worshiped in world. all cultures have the serpent in its history. you need deep research on this object.
spam
Anonymous Coward
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03/12/2013 12:19 AM
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Re: STRANGE CARVED JADE OUROBOROS ARTIFACT - WHO MADE IT? HOW OLD?
its a chinese koi carving . aprox 1910
only the chinees carved the cultivated carp (koi)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1203355


I'm thinking Chinese too. When they got on Ebay, they started selling all the jade they could find.

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