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Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2012 01:59 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
"Agents"...plural.

I already provided the contact for the 24 AUTHORIZED AGENTS of the Federal Reserve.

OBFUSCATE MUCH?
708
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09/03/2012 02:12 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Well I guess this means you won't be redeeming any FRN's and will keep paying taxes, enjoy.

As for myself I will continue to redeem FRN's on demand at my local bank, and not incur any tax liabilities.

I understand your logic, but I think it is flawed. sk
 Quoting: seeker2


Seeker, I haven't even begun to research the connection between the use of federal reserve notes and the "DUTY" to pay Federal taxes...if, in fact there IS one.

Regardless of any connection between private credit usage and ones obligation to file a tax return, I believe that redemption of FRN's for US NOTES is a MUCH larger, and more important issue than taxes alone.

From my research, it is clear that the issuance and USE of PUBLIC FIAT instead of PRIVATE DEBT is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE facing Americans...now or EVER.

Many people know that the entire proceeds of the 1040 taxes go to paying interest on the public debt!

Of course, paying interest on the PUBLIC DEBT is necessary because the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is BORROWING the deficit amounts from the FEDERAL RESERVE at interest! Eliminate the need to borrow from the FED by issuing US NOTES and the need for the 1040 tax return is ALSO eliminated!

My point is that you and 708 have done a great service alerting many to the power of redemption, but then fucked up by providing an incorrect path of private credit redemption! You will see that if your redemption process starts getting some significant attention due to increasing numbers participating, the IRS will most certainly focus appropriate resources towards "correcting" this "misunderstanding"...it's really just a question of numbers and time. Go look at the IRS website and read about the various schemes that people were absolutely sure would work...and all their followers whose proof of the veracity of the claims stemed from the fact that "others were doing it and it worked for them".

What ultimately happens then is that the ENTIRE ISSUE of redemption will be tainted and the true power not realized..."oh yeah, redemption....someone tried that a few years ago and the IRS went after them..." How many times have you heard THAT?

If people were educated as to the true story of public money vs private debt as well as the correct method of redemption, the issue of 1040 taxation would go away for all...and the power to coin and regulate the value of money restored back to congress where it belongs!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22994005


how aabout YOU provide us with YOUR method of "redeeming lawful money" right here, right now and end this debate?

YOU claim we are doing it wrong, well, prove YOUR way of doing it right. I will wait.

Of course, I want to see some actual TAX returns (there are some posted at the links to Davids forum). I want the IRS to agree with YOUR method (which you have no provided yet) before I agree with it.

I would love to see your method. Or are you just here to point out what YOU think is wrong with the method the IRS has agreed with for the past 10+ for many people?

BTW, do not try to give me that crap the the IRS just has not had time or is 'waiting' to jump on those redeeming per 12-USC 411.

Quataloosers is full of high level Government shills and agents and they have been directly confronted and challenged to put this question before a Federal Tax court and they have not done it and its not because "theres not enough people doin it".

I do not buy that for one second.
708
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09/03/2012 02:17 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Great thread, by the way. I learned a lot.

Thanks to all who shared their experiences.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1589648


You are welcome, its been a long road and has cost me more than I would choose to lose again, but the past cannot be changed.
708
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09/03/2012 02:23 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
"Agents"...plural.

I already provided the contact for the 24 AUTHORIZED AGENTS of the Federal Reserve.

OBFUSCATE MUCH?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22994005


Show us your method and provide your proof it works.

I will consider any posts you choose to put here without your proof and method as no more than a

bump

for the thread.
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2012 02:43 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Food for thought...

It clearly states in the wording - THEY shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand...

THEY - can only be referring to a person - natural, corporate, or legal entity...

When writing a check - the words "Pay To The Order Of" are clearly imprinted... Then we write the name of the person, or legal entity we give the check to... This is an order for that legal entity to pay - this is a draw of the THEY, into the treasury...

Once the THEY is in the treasury, in order to keep it alive, an interest must be paid... It is the THEY in the treasury, and the accruing interest that represents the deficit...The deficit, IMO is the lawful money owed to the people...

The question, IMO, is exactly how to we go about demanding this money... I understand the premise of this thread, in that certain people are not allowing the THEY to accrue in the deficit, and not incurring a tax liability...

But, that does not resolve the issue of recieving additional monies owed to them... Monies earned through wages is not sufficient to tackle the rising costs and inflation issues...

Further - In the Canadian "Bills of Exchange Act", it clearly states a crossed cheque is a warrant for a dividend... Crossed cheques are what we write all the time...A warrant can also be considered as a warranty, an insurance to be redeemed at a future time...

The question remains - HOW...
708
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09/03/2012 02:56 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
I am going to point out one thing.

There have even been some "success" of suitors who have been caught up in "tax protestor" issues and have been assessed 'frivolous filing' fees.

Said suitors have begun demanding redemption of lawful money, opened Article III case filings and told the Government, the Treasury and the IRS in that record and notices that had they known about demanding lawful money per 12-USC 411, they would have been demanding it since their first paycheck/bank transaction.

This seems to this point to have stopped any court action on a Federal level against these suitors.

There is more information on this at the saving to the suitors site linked in this thread.

So, not only has the IRS not taken any court action against those demanding/redeeming lawful money, they have actually backed off those who might have proceeded to Federal Court action against those who learned about it after being "on the list" of the IRS.

This, to me, means much more than some poster on GLP claiming "snake oil" remedies by me and providing no remedy in his posts.
708
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09/03/2012 03:03 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Food for thought...

It clearly states in the wording - THEY shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand...

THEY - can only be referring to a person - natural, corporate, or legal entity...

When writing a check - the words "Pay To The Order Of" are clearly imprinted... Then we write the name of the person, or legal entity we give the check to... This is an order for that legal entity to pay - this is a draw of the THEY, into the treasury...

Once the THEY is in the treasury, in order to keep it alive, an interest must be paid... It is the THEY in the treasury, and the accruing interest that represents the deficit...The deficit, IMO is the lawful money owed to the people...

The question, IMO, is exactly how to we go about demanding this money... I understand the premise of this thread, in that certain people are not allowing the THEY to accrue in the deficit, and not incurring a tax liability...

But, that does not resolve the issue of recieving additional monies owed to them... Monies earned through wages is not sufficient to tackle the rising costs and inflation issues...

Further - In the Canadian "Bills of Exchange Act", it clearly states a crossed cheque is a warrant for a dividend... Crossed cheques are what we write all the time...A warrant can also be considered as a warranty, an insurance to be redeemed at a future time...

The question remains - HOW...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23107892


Well, YEAH, but the sad state of affairs is this, we do not have access to the Gold and Silver coin, at face value (and cost).

I have pointed out, NOTHING gets "paid for" with fiat money, only Gold and silver coin can "pay for" a thing.

The real question is when I work, who has the obligation to pay me?

Well, that is easy, the one who holds all the Gold and Silver coin.

The Treasury controls that trust (where the 300 million is held) and has since 1933 (and prior to that during the civil war and for some years after).

So, unless and until I or YOU accept that obligation onto your "self" they owe you and me the money once we restrict our endorsement(s) and demand it.

Will they pay it? I have not been paid yet, so my answer to that is NO, but its on the record they OWE IT.

Also, on any check I receive, I always cross out the "to the order of" and leave only the "pay to" on the check, I have never had a bank teller take issue with it.
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2012 09:33 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Definition of FEDERAL RESERVE AGENT

the director who is designated by the board of governors of the Federal Reserve system as chairman of the board of directors of a Federal Reserve bank and who acts as official representative of the board of governors to the bank
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22994005


So it is now clear that an Agent of the Federal Reserve is NOT a commercial bank!

The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 grants the FED with MONOPOLY power to issue Federal Reserve Notes, a system of PRIVATE (Debt Based) Credit which, by fiat (or decree) is LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE. This endorsement found on all Federal Reserve Notes makes 708's contention that their use by ANYONE, free man or bound, is precluded by 12USC411 and, further that such use AUTOMATICALLY makes the USER and AUTOMATIC AGENT of the FED and thus subject to federal taxes ABSURD. THERE IS NO SUCH NEXUS.

The Federal Reserve Corporation, acting under congressional charter by authority of The Federal Reserve Act of 1913, is located in WASHINGTON, District of Columbia and thus subject to Federal Laws and Acts.

The AGENTS of the Federal Reserve, as defined above, are the 12 REGIONAL Federal Reserve DISTRICTS, each of them which are separate corporations and each of which are authorized to exclusively act as AGENTS of the Federal Reserve in their geographically defined districts:

[link to www.federalreserve.gov]

The ONLY REDEMPTION as authorized by 12USC411 MUST take place at a FEDERAL RESERVE BANK or BRANCH identified in the links provided earlier. COMMERCIAL BANKS, as SEEKER and 708 claim, are NOT AUTHORIZED to redeem FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES!

Thus their claims to avoid paying TAXES legally by "redeeming" FRN's through COMMERCIAL BANKS is NULL and VOID and a COMPLETE FRAUD.

Check and Mate!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22994005


Again and for the record, I NEVER have posted that REDEMPTION takes place at my local bank.

Again and for the record, as already posted by me in this thread, the DEMAND is made on the RECORD with every bank transaction via RESTRICTED ENDORSEMENT and DEMAND for lawful money per 12-USC 411.

OK 708...here is the exact verbiage from 12USC411

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

Are you claiming that YOUR local commercial bank is a FEDERAL RESERVE BANK? Did you bother to review the links provided which clearly show your LOCAL bank is NOT a Federal Reserve bank? How can you continue to claim your so-called "method of redemption" is legitimate when the law itself states it is not?


Again and for the record YOU cannot access the red sealed US Bank NOTES.

Where exactly did I say that I could? I suggested to another posters question that redemption MIGHT be made in either us coinage or US notes. I also clearly stated that gold and silver were not an option, because the LAW says they are not. However, you don't know any better than I if the RED SEAL notes ARE available...yet you ACT like you know it for a fact.

Again, and for the record, US BANK notes are FIAT money, while backed with 300 million in GOLD coin, they are not REDEEMABLE for those coins. Therefore, FRN/US Treasury notes found on the FACE of every currently issued NOTE above the 1 and 2 dollar serve "essentially" the same purpose as the US Bank notes (red seal) did, being non-redeemable in Gold or silver coin AND being FIAT currency.

I never said the WERE redeemable for gold and silver...in fact I said they were not...because the LAW says they are not. Apparently you think lying about what I said then arguing that which I did not say is an effective strategy. It's quite pathetic that this feeble effort is your response to being on the losing side of a debate.

Since you do not believe that LINES and boarders drawn on Paper have any legal and lawful meaning, I counter with the FACT that NATIONS are divided, legally and lawfully by NO MORE than LINES DRAWN ON PAPER.

A US Treasury note is BORDERED, BOXED IN, SEPARATED and DEFINED the exact same way.

My statement was that, at least on the ten dollar bill I looked at, there were no such borders. I also said I did not choose to comment on the relevance such lines and borders MIGHT have, since I did not know. Again, you obfuscate by misrepresenting what I said. Sadly for you, it is all written down for those wishing to check for themselves.

As for me going to a Federal Reserve member bank and demanding the NOTES you have not proven can be obtained, I do not need to, since you have not proven YOU can and have done it. I never claimed you could, you are making the claim I have to do that to comply with 12 USC 411.

This is really getting stupid. I have not claimed to have made such a redemption....I do not know if such a redemption is possible, and I do not know how the redemption would be made. I have said this over and over...but it is IRRELEVANT. I am not making the claim of how redemption MUST be made, I am simply reciting VERBATIM what the LAW says you MUST do. Your horseshit "theory" that your method "works" is not found in the law, and you have offered no proof other than to suggest because the IRS has not yet clamped down on those involved in this "scheme", that it must be ok. Take a look at the IRS scams page and visualize how many other poor mopes have followed you and seeker down the same path

Nowhere in 12 USC 411 does it state where the DEMAND must be made, only the where the REDEMPTION of FRNS must be made, therefore, I choose to make my demand where the IRS is going to LOOK FOR MY DEMAND, on every single ENDORSEMENT I make anywhere I do business with a BANK or any other Government agency.

YES IT DOES. At the TREASURY in WASHINGTON District of Columbia or ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK. Are you fucking stupid?

Choose to do whatever you want, but what you are doing is not supported by the LAW YOU ARE CLAIMING AS YOUR AUTHORITY. Again, this is STUPID AND ILLOGICAL


When you can prove you have gotten access to the US Bank notes you need so bad, then do it and bring your proof here for all to see.

Again, another LOGIC FAIL. Whether or not I can obtain a redemption or red seal bills HAS NOTHING TO DO with whether your procedure is correct. Your theory is to prove you wrong by proving I'm right...however, I have not made a claim here...you have. And your claim to remedy is not found in the black letter law of 12USC411. Doesn't matter one IOTA what you CHOOSE to do. People choose to do shit everyday and run afoul of the law because what they CHOOSE to do was not legal. Did you ever stop to think all those blank stares you were getting at the banks had to do with the fact they don't know what the hell you are talking about? Ever consider that not everything is a conspiracy...that you just don't know what you are doing?

The paper BANK notes are not the issue, the DEMAND for lawful money is the issue.

Yes, and the act is very specific how that demand is to be made. From your theory, why bother with the banks...just go to the mountaintop like MOSES and scream your intentions to the world.

Again, I already posted, I cannot REDEEM SAID NOTES (FRNS) and never claimed I could. I have claimed it is NOT NEEDED, since the RECORD OF MY DEMAND FOR LAWFUL MONEY IS RECORED ON EVERY NON-ENDORSEMENT.

If you are too dense to understand where I stand on this issue, so be it, that is not my problem. I cannot spell it out any clearer and you are a waste of time. I respond only for those reading this thread who might think you have a valid point, when in fact, you do not.

The contract between Congress, the BANKS, the Treasury and the Federal Reserve is NOT my issue, nor is the actual, physical REDEMPTION of FRNS for some other NOTE, my DEMAND and non-endorsement of their corruption and extra constitutional agreement IS my issue.

I already addressed these points...READ THE LAW STUPID

The fact is, up to this day, the IRS has NEVER made a claim for income tax on ANYONE demanding per 12 USC 411, therefore, YOUR claim that t does not free myself of the OBLIGATION to pay said TAX is irrelevant, I think the IRS has the final say on who is doing it correctly, not YOU.

How the HELL would YOU, of all PEOPLE, know what the IRS has or has not made claim for. IRS records are confidential. Arte you implying that you have access to the IRS database and you have checked everything out? Or are you referring to a handful of fringe folks who are busy telling each other that they are in the right...making a CLAIM that YOU know what the hell the IRS is up to casts a doubtful light on your credibility and (limited) intelligence

If you do have the right to say what the IRS does or does not do, you would not be here making such claims, you would be doing it in FEDERAL COURT.

There is all the proof I need that YOUR opinion means jack shit.

Whatever. You again fall back on that tired old shill name calling and huff-puffing that highlights your frustration of not being able to respond to intelligent inquiry as to your methods and assumptions.

The reference to Quatloos targets you as an old fogey. I can't imagine ANYONE would take that site seriously, or even reference it as you have. The site is like fox news, small, easy to chew bites and a resulting soft bowel movement. Sound about right champ?

Take a clue and look at Lexus/Nexus or Westlaw if you want to do legal research. Also, Readers Digest is no longer considered THE go-to tome for cutting edge research.


CHECK MATE THAT, Quatalooser.

LOOSER? LOL. Probably should learn spelling before you tackle things like the FED laws and acts, put together by men MUCH smarter than yourself.
 Quoting: 708 20901334
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2012 09:34 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Responses in RED...

QUATLOOSER...LOL
708
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09/03/2012 09:50 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Another bump from the shill-leader!!

Thanks!!

Lets keep this thread on the front page even longer!!
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2012 09:57 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Lewis v United States provides PROOF that Federal Reserve Banks are NOT commercial banks...

Each Federal Reserve Bank is a separate corporation owned by commercial banks in its region. The stockholding commercial banks elect two thirds of each Bank's nine member board of directors. The remaining three directors are appointed by the Federal Reserve Board. The Federal Reserve Board regulates the Reserve Banks, but direct supervision and control of each Bank is exercised by its board of directors. 12 U.S.C. Sect. 301. The directors enact by-laws regulating the manner of conducting general Bank business, 12 U.S.C. Sect. 341, and appoint officers to implement and supervise daily Bank activities. These activites include collecting and clearing checks, making advances to private and commercial entities, holding reserves for member banks, discounting the notes of member banks, and buying and selling securities on the open market. See 12 U.S.C. Sub-Sect. 341-361.

Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982)

Note the differentiation that the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK is a separate corporation OWNED by commercial banks in the region.

So, it is clear that COMMERCIAL BANKS are NOT FEDERAL RESERVE BANKS...RIGHT? Can you get that one idea clear?

Moving on, 12USC411 is VERY SPECIFIC that redemptions must take place AT (physical location) The Treasury Washington District of Columbia OR any FEDERAL RESERVE BANK.

Isn't that CRYSTAL CLEAR?

How can you thus maintain that YOU CHOOSE to disregard that and make a "claim" at a commercial bank? And, not even following the LAW in that regard, FURTHER CONCLUDE that by doing so, you no longer are required to pay FEDERAL INCOME TAX.

Stupid, stupid man. Put up proof or shut the hell up. Some people may be taking you seriously here.
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2012 09:58 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Another bump from the shill-leader!!

Thanks!!

Lets keep this thread on the front page even longer!!
 Quoting: 708 20901334


Nice retort 708...everyone can appreciate an intellectual, fact based debate.

Even those who read quatlooser!

LOL
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09/03/2012 10:09 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
708 HELPER MONKEY THREAD--Repeat Reading Until Comprehension Takes Place:

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.
708
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09/03/2012 10:16 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Since certain people are so "letter of the LAW".

!2 USC 411 clearly states that FRNs are to be used strictly by Federal Reserve AGENTS, and no other purpose is authorized. (no other MUST include using them as legal tender for debts. So, the notes being used as "legal tender" is actually forbidden by the very law that authorizes and defines the FRNs sole authorized use.

But hey, those guys who WROTE the law, restricting the Notes use and then claiming it is "legal tender for all debts public and private" are "smarter" than I am. Yeah, they are brillant masters of letter of the law.

He also proclaims I am not a FEDERAL RESERVE AGENT. Since Federal Reserve agents are the only ones authorized to use FRNS then they are also the only ones who can REDEEM said notes...

AT the Federal Reserve BANKS. Thus, there is no redemption possible and we are all criminals without remedy from the ills of the Federal Reserves private notes.

So much for a "letter of the law" that makes it impossible for anyone of us peons to redeem (or demand redemption) of the notes.

The fact remains, the poser does not speak for the Federal Reserve, the Treasury nor the IRS. (Or does he?)

The IRS has a very clear page on "frivolous arguments" and even though several years, and in some cases, decades have passed with people demanding redemption at their local banks (and getting full refunds of witheld tax payments and interest) not one word about 12-USC 411 in any IRS publications being frivolous, but that is just because "not enough people are doing it".

But, the poster who has not 'done' anything knows what I and others are currently doing knows I am stupid and wrong.

In the mean time, we keep on making our demand, controlling our own records in Article III courts and stopping various presentments and offers from the District of Columbia...

I guess none of those things are actually happening, even though, they are public record and recorded in District courts all over these united States.

Hmm, maybe the Feds are just waiting for the right moment to strike down idiots like me who think redemption from the man gods is really possible.
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Note how the FED answers the question of what constitutes LAWFUL MONEY:

What is lawful money? How is it different from legal tender?

"Lawful money" is a term used in the Federal Reserve Act, the act that authorizes the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System to issue Federal Reserve notes. The Act states that Federal Reserve notes "shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank." The Act did not, however, define the term "lawful money," but up until 1913, the only currency issued by the United States that was legally recognized as "lawful money" was various issues of "demand notes" (subsequently known as "old demand notes") and "United States notes" authorized by Congress during the Civil War.

At the time, some currency was not considered legal tender, although it could be used by national banking associations as "lawful money reserves." Thus, the term "lawful money" had a broader meaning than the term "legal tender."

In 1933, Congress changed the law so that all U.S. coins and currency (including Federal Reserve notes), regardless of when issued, constitutes "legal tender" for all purposes. Federal and state courts since then have repeatedly held that Federal Reserve notes are also "lawful money." Milam v. U.S., 524 F.2d 629 (9th Cir. 1974), is typical of the federal and state court cases holding that Federal Reserve notes are "lawful money." In Milam, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reviewed a judgment denying relief to an individual who sought to redeem a $50 Federal Reserve Bank Note in "lawful money." The United States tendered Milam $50 in Federal Reserve notes, but Milam refused the notes, asserting that "lawful money" must be gold or silver. The Ninth Circuit, noting that this matter had been put to rest by the U.S. Supreme Court nearly a century before in the Legal Tender Cases (Juilliard v. Greenman), 110 U.S. 421 (1884), rejected this assertion as frivolous and affirmed the judgment.

Note that in Milam, the plaintiff demanded LAWFUL MONEY in the form of gold and silver redemption, which by code was already precluded. In other words, Milam asked for a remedy not allowed by code law...although perfectly in line with the Constitution.

Reading the carefully crafted answer DOES prove that US coins from the mint and US notes ARE lawful money as I had speculated in an earlier post. So it appears that many have failed in redeeming frn's for GOLD OR SLIVER coin which, by code LAW is not allowed. However, it is equally clear that these same folks could have prevailed in pressing for payment in coin or US notes, and presumably the FED would have been in compliance with any court order by TENDERING EITHER as payment to the plaintiff.

Conclusion: Most people do not understand the significance in converting private federal reserve notes for public us notes and coins, since both, by decree are equally acceptable in commerce. As a result most people will never understand the enormous significance that such a conversion act would have on the economic well being of the country.

Trading elastic private notes for inelastic public notes (us notes) OR converting all transactions to coins (or perhaps usps money orders) would serve to eliminate the national debt and eliminate governmental debt service...which, as I stated before ELIMINATES the need for the 1040 income tax legally AND lawfully.
708
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
"Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized."

Maybe the shill-leader should take his own advise and actually READ the LAW.

Clearly, he has made the argument that I am not a "Federal Reserve AGENT'"

(or is he now changing this?)

Clearly, FRNS are only to be used BY Federal Reserve AGENTS and only for ONE authorized purpose, "of making advances to Federal reserve banks".

Read that again and again till that sinks in Mr. "letter of the law". I am not authorized to do anything with FRNs, even redeem them at Federal Reserve Banks.

It is against the law for me or YOU to use them as "legal tender for "all debts public and private".

So, nobody but Federal reserve agents can use them and then, only for "making advances to Federal Reserve banks".

Seems those god men who wrote the law and are so much smart than I am cannot even come up with a LAWFUL excuse for writing "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUPLIC AND PRIVATE" on a note that is not issued for that purpose and is, in fact, only has 1 (ONE) authorized use.

Where is the amendment to 12 USC 411 that allows FRNS to be used "for any other purpose or by anyone BUT Federal Reserve Agents, Mr. Letter of the law?
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2012 10:28 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
OK, so we are using private money from a "for profit" corporation - so how about creating our own private money for our own use?

Wouldn't you like to be a part owner as a tenant in common or beneficiary in a trust that was operating your own banking system?

Get some clues: Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 43)
708
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09/03/2012 10:39 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
I cannot "convert" FRNS into anything, because, like the shill-tard has posted, 12 USC 411 clearly spells out that only Federal Reserve agents are authorized to use FRNS and ONLY for their authorized purpose.

What the FED writes about what is or is not "lawful money" the Notes can be redeemed for is not relevant since they have ZERO Constitutional authority to define lawful money for the people of the Republic.

Quoting what the FED says like it has some kind of lawful right to define "lawful money" for the Republic is stupid. As for the courts, we all know the District of Columbia is not Governed by the law of the land (the Constitution for the united States of America) therefore, their courts definitions are questionable at best and clearly wrong (unconstitutional) in some cases.

The money changers have controlled people with half-truths and outright lies since before the Civil War and continue to do so today.

And to DATE the ONLY remedy that I have seen work is what I and others have outlined in detail on this thread.

That may change tomorrow or the next day, but for NOW, it is working and has worked for many, many people for many years.

Take or leave it, I am not your boss.
708
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09/03/2012 10:41 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
OK, so we are using private money from a "for profit" corporation - so how about creating our own private money for our own use?

Wouldn't you like to be a part owner as a tenant in common or beneficiary in a trust that was operating your own banking system?

Get some clues: Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 43)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


And go to prison for "creating a competing currency like the guy who made the "liberty dollar?"

No thanks. But let us know how it works out for you, I am open to it.
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09/03/2012 10:46 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
"Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized."

Maybe the shill-leader should take his own advise and actually READ the LAW.

Clearly, he has made the argument that I am not a "Federal Reserve AGENT'"

(or is he now changing this?)

Clearly, FRNS are only to be used BY Federal Reserve AGENTS and only for ONE authorized purpose, "of making advances to Federal reserve banks".

Read that again and again till that sinks in Mr. "letter of the law". I am not authorized to do anything with FRNs, even redeem them at Federal Reserve Banks.

It is against the law for me or YOU to use them as "legal tender for "all debts public and private".

So, nobody but Federal reserve agents can use them and then, only for "making advances to Federal Reserve banks".

Seems those god men who wrote the law and are so much smart than I am cannot even come up with a LAWFUL excuse for writing "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUPLIC AND PRIVATE" on a note that is not issued for that purpose and is, in fact, only has 1 (ONE) authorized use.

Where is the amendment to 12 USC 411 that allows FRNS to be used "for any other purpose or by anyone BUT Federal Reserve Agents, Mr. Letter of the law?
 Quoting: 708 20901334


At least on this point, you are trying to fathom the LAW AS WRITTEN. I believe you have missed the mark by a wide margin.

12USC411

Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized.

How do I interpret this? That the Federal Reserve System is authorized to issue FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES...in unlimited quantities as they themselves (without congressional oversight) deem prudent and necessary THROUGH THE CHANNELS ALLOWED BY LAW...namely the issued NOTES are advances to the Federal Reserve Banks based on the methodology that the Board of Governors has codified.

In other words, the FED BOARD can crank out all the FRN's they want, but those which they create MUST flow through the regional Federal Reserve Banks...and the extent to which those banks can ABSORB all those FRN's are defined via reserve holdings (now codified in the BASEL III laws) and their ability to lend...again previously limited based on reserve requirements, which were suspended indefinitely during the last banking "crisis".

I believe the intent was to allow the FED to issue notes aplenty, but only through the banking system and NOT a blank check whereby the FED BOARD could print unlimited FRN's and go on an asset buying spree. In other words, the Board of Governors was precluded from using the power of the printing press to buy whatever they wanted.

This is my theory only, but I believe this limitation was deliberately breached during the banking "crisis" whereby the FED created north of 16 TRILLION dollars and allocated it to international banks, brokerage houses and large corporations deemed critical to the economy or TOO BIG TO FAIL. They shortcut the trip through the regional fed banking system which probably pissed off the local franchisees...all done under the exceptional market condition clauses which have been referenced in the last year. I believe there are some challenges to the FED's actions in this regard, but as one might imagine, it is not receiving any MEDIA attention, what with all the battle of the stars competitions and americas got talent finals and whatnot.

It's all deliberately murky as clearly the FED believes it operates outside on the jurisdictional control of congress and the courts...and I guess it does. But in this case the shortcut broke the law and there has been some noise.

The literal reading of this sentence as meaning that no one other than the FED can use FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES seems absurd on its face as witnessed by the NUMEROUS COURT FINDINGS (only one of which is referenced earlier) holding that FRN's are both legal tender and lawful money...both of which are clearly within the purview of NATIONAL CURRENCY. Look up the definition of NATIONAL CURRENCY and then make an argument that FRN's cannot be used in private transactions or in public commerce.

Try again Einstein. Don't think that I haven't noticed that you are avoiding the other, more relevant points which I have taken the time to answer/refute in great detail and with cites and supporting law.
Anonymous Coward
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09/03/2012 10:51 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
OK, so we are using private money from a "for profit" corporation - so how about creating our own private money for our own use?

Wouldn't you like to be a part owner as a tenant in common or beneficiary in a trust that was operating your own banking system?

Get some clues: Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 43)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


YOU can clearly create a competing currency...many communities have done exactly that.

YOU CANNOT create a currency, or any monetary instrument, which might likely be confused with an established currency or fiat.

The liberty dollar that Einstein referenced was busted because of the similarity of the coin design and use of such words as LIBERTY. I'm not defending the charge or conviction, just clarifying that the charge had to do with the confusion issue, not that competing currencies can't be developed.

You will find, as other have, that adoption of your new standard will be difficult, as it was initially for the FED. The government had to crack a few metaphorical skulls to get the job done, including confiscation of the true lawful money of the day.

The REAL counterfeiting is when the coins were debased starting in 1964. The COnstitution clearly defines the metal content of various denomination coins, and the purity and amount. Another real fraud conducted with nary a murmur from the sheep
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09/03/2012 10:56 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
I cannot "convert" FRNS into anything, because, like the shill-tard has posted, 12 USC 411 clearly spells out that only Federal Reserve agents are authorized to use FRNS and ONLY for their authorized purpose.

What the FED writes about what is or is not "lawful money" the Notes can be redeemed for is not relevant since they have ZERO Constitutional authority to define lawful money for the people of the Republic.

Quoting what the FED says like it has some kind of lawful right to define "lawful money" for the Republic is stupid. As for the courts, we all know the District of Columbia is not Governed by the law of the land (the Constitution for the united States of America) therefore, their courts definitions are questionable at best and clearly wrong (unconstitutional) in some cases.

The money changers have controlled people with half-truths and outright lies since before the Civil War and continue to do so today.

And to DATE the ONLY remedy that I have seen work is what I and others have outlined in detail on this thread.

That may change tomorrow or the next day, but for NOW, it is working and has worked for many, many people for many years.

Take or leave it, I am not your boss.
 Quoting: 708 20901334


The FED was using court cases, valid under common law and stare decisis, to try and weasel the FRN's to be LAWFUL MONEY, which they clearly are NOT. I noted the case which framed the issue and asked for the wrong remedy. You are correct that the FED cannot define lawful money, and that fraud, deceit and deception are par for the course, but wrong about everything else.

What I have found in my research is that there is always ONE CORRECT REMEDY for every FRAUD committed against the people. However, the REMEDY is not necessarily easy and must be followed to the LETTER OF THE LAW. One cannot arbitrarily CHOOSE to follow a different path, no matter how reasonable, or convoluted, that persons logic seems.

Follow the letter of the law, and then rely on that as a sound defense for ones actions.

Carry on, dimwit.
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09/03/2012 11:02 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
In the case cited above, instead of demanding gold or silver coin, which was precluded by LAW, the plaintiff should have asked for payment in LAWFUL MONEY and see what the court ordered payment would be. From my research, the only two options would be US NOTES or US MINT COINS.

US MINT coins would raise a new argument...namely that they were counterfeit since the Constitution CLEARLY defines the gold and silver content of coinage. I think that argument would have merit because it brings the lawful money issue back into the Constitutional/public money forum.

Then the only LAWFUL remedy would be the issuance of US NOTES...
708
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09/03/2012 11:07 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Well, when the IRS agrees with you, then we will have something to talk about.

When you can provide tax returns of with held taxes and interest paid back to those playing your way and you can back it up with actual returns, let me know.

As usual, you provide NO evidence or proof of your 'remedy' while people like David and Seeker2 have.

Good for you on your theory and the name calling is a great touch, you are just the kind of guy I would dismiss my 5 plus years of study and understanding on.

For now, the IRS is agreeing with the "dimwits' demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411 (yes, at local banks) and forming their own record in the District Courts.

If your intention was to win anyone over to your method of redemption to the issue of elastic currency, I, for one am not moved. Others are free to do what they wish.

But, again, thanks bumping the thread.
708
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09/03/2012 11:15 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
"Then the only LAWFUL remedy would be the issuance of US NOTES..."

All the notes I use are US Treasury notes, you just refuse to see the remedy and notes that are right in front of you. Please prove me wrong, there are clear LINES between the FRN side and the US Note side, as I have pointed out. If nations can draw lines on a map and define their own borders with lines on paper, certainly lines and boarders on LEGAL NOTES have significant meanings, even if YOU are ignorant to them.

But I am a dimwit, I admit, I have been called much worse by people I hold in much higher regard than you and survived it.
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09/04/2012 12:01 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Well, when the IRS agrees with you, then we will have something to talk about.

When you can provide tax returns of with held taxes and interest paid back to those playing your way and you can back it up with actual returns, let me know.

As usual, you provide NO evidence or proof of your 'remedy' while people like David and Seeker2 have.

Good for you on your theory and the name calling is a great touch, you are just the kind of guy I would dismiss my 5 plus years of study and understanding on.

For now, the IRS is agreeing with the "dimwits' demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411 (yes, at local banks) and forming their own record in the District Courts.

If your intention was to win anyone over to your method of redemption to the issue of elastic currency, I, for one am not moved. Others are free to do what they wish.

But, again, thanks bumping the thread.
 Quoting: 708 20901334


You, and others, Keep bringing the IRS into the question of lawful redemption of FRN's. Personally, I do not understand where this connection, in the LAW, has ever been made in this thread.

Show ME The Law where REDEMPTION of FRN's discharges an OBLIGATION, or DUTY to file a TAX RETURN.

You have yet to prove that YOU understand the LAWFUL METHOD of redeeming FRN's for LAWFUL money...even though it is clearly spelled out in the ACT and I have painstakingly pieced together ALL of the elements in question to demonstrate, not what I say, but what the LAW says.

And you still try to obfuscate the PLAIN FACTS OF THE MATTER.

If you don't get this, I doubt if you have done the research PROVING the NEXUS of taxation lies in the use of PRIVATE DEBT NOTES.

I am willing to debat that later, after thorough research. In the meantime, don't try and escape the central point...which is that LAWFUL REDEMPTION CAN ONLY OCCUR in the clear-cut letter of the law.

You, and others, should clearly understand that if the interest paid for the use of private debt is ELIMINATED by the widespread switch to public money, the whole issue of the IRS is moot anyway, since the totality of all 1040 collections are used to pay the interest on the national debt.

All that needs to be done is to get the redemption done properly and the issue of taxation becomes IRRELEVANT.

It is the easy, clean, legal and LAWFUL answer to everything you purport to accomplish, yet you eschew the simple and clean solution to your pet theories...and in the meantime leading OTHERS down the wrong path.
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09/04/2012 12:11 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
"Then the only LAWFUL remedy would be the issuance of US NOTES..."

All the notes I use are US Treasury notes, you just refuse to see the remedy and notes that are right in front of you. Please prove me wrong, there are clear LINES between the FRN side and the US Note side, as I have pointed out. If nations can draw lines on a map and define their own borders with lines on paper, certainly lines and boarders on LEGAL NOTES have significant meanings, even if YOU are ignorant to them.

But I am a dimwit, I admit, I have been called much worse by people I hold in much higher regard than you and survived it.
 Quoting: 708 20901334


You're right. What I see when I look at the private debt notes are FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES, clearly and boldly spelled out on the top of the bill. I DON'T see anything saying US NOTE, or anything that indicates this is anything other than a FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE.

Says so all across the top of the bill. FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE.

Lines, boxes and other theories don't really denote a counterpoint to what is clearly stated on the bill. I do understand how the Treasury, as guarantor of the Fed's issue, also signs the note and attests by their seal, as I have explained previously.

Contract law, as a requirement, requires full disclosure. Lines and suggestions don't meet that criteria.

Also, the FED tracks how many bills are issued and those figures are liabilities on their books. If the Treasury, as you claim, owns half of the bill, show me on their public balance sheets where that liability is held on their books. You WILL find US notes, issued but not in circulation...so how do they account for the half-currency you claim they have issued? Are the commercial banks reconciling their redemptions via your method on THEIR books? Show Me The Money..that is, how is that internal reconciliation taking place..or are the banks ignoring your redemptions.

Your theories are convoluted and unsupported. You suggest because you have not been prosecuted, that you are doing it the right way...which is lunacy.

I believe you have been discredited, and your theory does not bear the test of intellectual scrutiny. I do, as I have several times past, commend you on the work you and others have done to bring this important question to light. It is unfortunate that you cannot overcome your stubborn biases and continue your quest to a successful conclusion.
seeker2

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09/04/2012 12:19 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Its seems to me that our new found friends primary purpose is not to find remedy but to try and discourage the redemption method we are using. For this reason I suspect he is nothing more than a shill employed by those in power, who must be feeling pretty desperate to send someone like him to post on this thread. Which leads me to the conclusion, that our redemption method is working well and more people are using it. Once a fire begins provided it has fuel it continues to grow exponentially and it would seem this fire has plenty of fuel. The people are waking up and demanding redemption from the current fiat system, which has lead to the near collapse of this once great country and it has all been done by design by those who would seek to enslave humanity.

You have your remedy, its really up to you whether you use it or not. If not now, when. sk

PS thanks for all the bumps in your efforts to dis-swayed readers from redeeming FRN's as I'm sure many people have benefited as a result.

Last Edited by seeker2 on 09/04/2012 12:24 AM
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09/04/2012 08:58 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Its seems to me that our new found friends primary purpose is not to find remedy but to try and discourage the redemption method we are using.

There is no need to "find remedy" like an EASTER EGG hunt...it is right there in BLACK AND WHITE...PUT MY FINGER ON THE LAW style. See 708's monkey helper thread for assistance if required. YOU, friend, are trying to PAWN OFF a "remedy" which is NOT found in the LAW...trying to use a methodology which will not work when push comes to shove...which it undoubtedly will

For this reason I suspect he is nothing more than a shill employed by those in power,

Amazing powers of deduction there! Because I recite what the LAW provides and don't agree with your BULLSHIT THEORIES and so-called PROOFS, I am a SHILL employed by THOSE IN POWER? STUPID...the argument of a cretin, or child.

who must be feeling pretty desperate to send someone like him to post on this thread.

Again, trying to evoke an US VS THEM mentality for the simple minded...Why not just REFUTE my arguments, if you can, and PROVE YOURS

Which leads me to the conclusion, that our redemption method is working well and more people are using it.

This is just as impressive argument as your "I haven't been contacted or harassed by the IRS yet so it must be legal argument". I conclude because I can't refute what you say that you must be a shill in the employ of the powers that be. Great argument...doesn't bode well for your research and analytical skills

Once a fire begins provided it has fuel it continues to grow exponentially and it would seem this fire has plenty of fuel.

Seem from what? How many people are actually doing this redemption process you are promoting? Now express that as a percentage of the total 300 million plus population and cite where you got your figures

The people are waking up and demanding redemption from the current fiat system, which has lead to the near collapse of this once great country and it has all been done by design by those who would seek to enslave humanity.

I don't think "the people" even know what the hell you are talking about...and almost ALL the people (as a percentage of the population)haven't even heard what you have to say. Simplistic platitudes are the hallmark of a simple mind...and they don't come much simpler than yours. The fact that fiat, by design, may or may not be a tool of oppression was not the point of discussion here...the POINT, and discussion, was a very narrow subset of the fiat question...namely, how does one REDEEM Federal Reserve Notes for LAWFUL Money. Sadly for you, the law DOES provide a very straightforward REMEDY which you choose to ignore...instead providing another "remedy" which the law DOES NOT allow.

You have your remedy, its really up to you whether you use it or not. If not now, when. sk

Once again, simpleton, it is NOT MY REMEDY. I have provided definitions and links to demonstrate what the LAW says is the remedy is. People living in a free country COULD petition their elected "representatives" and have the redemption law CHANGED, but until that happens, the law is what the law says it is

PS thanks for all the bumps in your efforts to dis-swayed readers from redeeming FRN's as I'm sure many people have benefited as a result.

You're welcome. As I have stated repeatedly, I believe the redemption process is the ONLY way forward, and it is already IN THE LAW. My complaint with you and your ilk is that you are not following the prescribed by LAW process and thus setting the stage for ruining the only real tool for fixing what is wrong with this country. I also note that you, 708 and a few others are what amounts to cyber-bullies, making baseless allegations against those who see the folly of your ways and point them out. I believe 708 said he was a cop at one point which his behavior is entirely consistent with. Cops generally have low IQ's, are pack animals and survive by mindlessly following the orders of others. Cops pick on the weak and helpless, and the more weak and helpless the more cops like it. Look on GLP at the numerous videos of how cops act and see the parallel with how you and your buddies attempt to quell dissent by attacking what others say by ad hominem attacks, name calling and distraction techniques.

Sad for you but those techniques won't work with me. I have dealt successfully with mental trolls like you my whole life and ALWAYS come out on top. Why? Because I know what I am talking about and do research before taking a position. I am also eager to adopt a NEW position when it is PROVEN that my previous position was incorrect or incomplete. Fuck you and those who are too stupid to adopt and adapt...and particularly when you utilize simple minded methodologies to mask the fact you know not of what you speak


 Quoting: seeker2


Seeker, you and 708 should step back, take a breath, and try and engage an objective thought process before typing your, yet again, stupid comments.
708
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Agreed Seeker2.

I want to add that anyone who believes there has ever been "full disclosure" by any Government in any action, agreement or contract or act is so utterly stupid and blind it is difficult to believe they have anything to offer here.

That one statement shows a total lack of interest in the truth of any matter when it comes to the Cult of Government. The very definition of CODE is to HIDE the true meaning of the language.

Also, I can find not one account of anyone, anywhere, at any time who has walked into a Federal Reserve bank and redeemed any note for any Gold or silver coin.

When the Green back of the Civil War era was redeemed, it was "redeemed" by holders at their local banks, in fact, it was common practice for local banks to hold US Gold and Silver coins for just that. Same goes for Gold and Silver certificates, which I know my own Grandfather 'redeemed' at our local bank several times.

Look at the history of bank robbers, who commonly hit local banks and stole large amounts of Gold and Silver coins, why would those coins be there if redemption for paper claims was "at Federal Reserve member banks" only?

For him to come here and say you must go to a Federal Reserve Bank or the Treasury for redemption ignores over 2 centuries of united States History and actual practice, the very definition of "common law." Silver coin "redemption" of paper notes (INCLUDING Federal reserve notes) continued AT LOCAL BANKS until 1968!

The guy is an idiot, a liar, or just a shill, but he is good for bumping this thread, so I hope he continues.

And, look what I found:

"As of June 2011, the U.S. Treasury calculates that $230 million in United States notes are in circulation, and excludes this amount from the statutory debt limit of the United States. This amount excludes $25 million in United States Notes issued prior to July 1, 1929, determined pursuant to Act of June 30, 1961, 31 U.S.C. 5119, to have been destroyed or irretrievably lost.
[link to www.treasurydirect.gov]

There goes the shill-leaders claim that there are no US Notes in circulation at this time.

That also proves that US notes are NOT part of the statutory debt limit, meaning that the US recognizes US NOTES as money and NOT DEBT. Another clear distinction between DEBT (FRNS) and the lawful moneyFRNS are to be redeemed for upon demand.

There you have it, proof that US Notes are still in circulation, and proof that the Government still recognizes a US Treasury note as LAWFUL MONEY and NOT DEBT.

The remedy is still there, the Government knows it, I know it and I use it and my DEMAND is recognized by them, the IRS tax return checks and 1040s by Suitors proves it.

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