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Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/09/2012 02:12 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Please allow me to interject. You are aware that the US govt. can seize precious metals in times of war or crisis, right?

You probably also know about the guys that became independent agents instead of employees and were paid with silver coins and declared their yearly income at around $1000 (the face value of the coins) and survived the legal meat grinder the IRS put them through without going to jail like Wesley Snipes.

As far as Wrong Paul goes, some paultard issued a press release on behalf of Ron Paul imploring people not to pay their income taxes. The instructions told people to sign and send forms to the IRS without declaring your income (filling in blanks with phrases like "none of your damn business, etc.), thereby fulfilling the law of completing the forms but supplying no numerical info.

Wrong Paul issued a retraction faster than you can say, "Yes, Massa," showing people that he was no revolutionary.
----------------------------------------

I'll let you get back to your discussion now:)
seeker2

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09/09/2012 04:11 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Please allow me to interject. You are aware that the US govt. can seize precious metals in times of war or crisis, right?

You probably also know about the guys that became independent agents instead of employees and were paid with silver coins and declared their yearly income at around $1000 (the face value of the coins) and survived the legal meat grinder the IRS put them through without going to jail like Wesley Snipes.

As far as Wrong Paul goes, some paultard issued a press release on behalf of Ron Paul imploring people not to pay their income taxes. The instructions told people to sign and send forms to the IRS without declaring your income (filling in blanks with phrases like "none of your damn business, etc.), thereby fulfilling the law of completing the forms but supplying no numerical info.

Wrong Paul issued a retraction faster than you can say, "Yes, Massa," showing people that he was no revolutionary.
----------------------------------------

I'll let you get back to your discussion now:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6268713


Yes, I followed that story and Had they presented their case differently they might not be jail now. They did not present their case as a lawful money issue but used the face value of the coins rather than the gold value so their claim an their taxes was for face value. The courts and the IRS did not see it the same way. Their said they needed to pay taxes on the full value they received for their labor and based on the tax statutes they were right. sk
708
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09/09/2012 09:47 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
708, we have had a spirited debate relative to the redemption process of Federal Reserve Notes, and relating factors.

Although I believe that you have made a grave error in ASSUMING that the local commercial banks are authorized agents of the federal reserve and treasury, and although the language of 12USC411 is quite specific, and although I have demonstrated that the FED is holding $200 million of the $300 million US NOTES which you claim are in circulation thereby demonstrating redemption capability, and I have clearly demonstrated that a federal reserve bank is NOT a commercial bank...and further proved that federal reserve banks are independent and chartered agents deriving their charter and authority from the federal reserve board of governors in DC..and one can assume they are NOT the agent of the US treasury...

I offer one final point for your consideration...made earlier but ignored, as well as a summation:

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

at/at/
Preposition:
Expressing location or arrival in a particular place or position: "they live at Conway House".


by/bī/
Preposition:
Identifying the agent performing an action.

in/in/
Adjective:
Present at one's home or office: "we knocked but there was no one in".

So, that leaves DEMAND, which may be used as a NOUN or a VERB.

The NOUN: a CLAIM or LEGAL OBLIGATION and

The VERB: An insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right

Very interesting choice of words...in one sense, denoting and underscoring the legal obligation for redemption, and the other imposing a DUTY, an insistent and peremptory request on the part of the redeemer... a lot going on with that one word.

So, which prevails? DUTY, always.

For example, under law a plaintiff may win a suit and have a judgement awarded entitling the plaintiff to damages. Say the defendant does not pay...

The plaintiff is BARRED from bringing (say)an action of contempt unless and until it is PROVED that a DEMAND FOR PAYMENT has been made by the plaintiff.

A landlord with a lease is entitled to rent payment. Should a tenant not pay rent, may a landlord go to court and file an eviction action? NO...not unless DEMAND for payment has been made and can be demonstrated. Can the landlord go to the adjoining tenant, who lives in the same building but has no AGENCY to conduct the affairs of the primary deadbeat and demand HE pay on behalf of the deadbeat? NO.

Thus, demand implies both RIGHT and a DUTY. Both are relevant here.

In the landlord example, the contract already has a specific requirement and implied DEMAND. The rent must be paid by the first of each month or the tenant will be evicted. The landlord has already made the demand known to the tenant, and in this case the tenant has even AGREED to the stipulation...clearly not the case in your dealings with the commercial banks.

Even with this up front demand, another MUST BE MADE when the tenant fails to pay. Further, the tenant must have a separate DEMAND issues EACH TIME the tenant is in jeopardy of eviction. Thus, I do not see examples in the law where a blanket demand is sufficient for repeated occurrences under the law.

I believe it is clear your approach at redemption fails on every level, but from above it can be seen that these failures turn on the words AT IN and ON and definition of DEMAND as a verb with its DUTY OF ACTION.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1589648


Then you prove it by doing it at the Federal Reserve bank.

You show me your belief (faith) in your words here, back it up by your actions (works).

My actions are public record, as are the results. You have no actions, no record, nothing but the legal definition of "at", which I have already posted defies actual redemption of national and private paper currency from its inception in the US, including Federal reseve Notes AT local banks.

Get off your ass, go to a Fed member bank and show me your faith with your works, because your claim, like your faith is DEAD without works.

The law is: faith without works, is DEAD. So, go now and fulfill the law.
 Quoting: 708 20901334


I understand your point, but, unlike others, I make sure my position and assertions are CORRECT before I go marching up to a speaker at the fed and demand gold or silver redemption...as the guy on the video did.

This thread alerted me to the whole issue in the first place, and I am doing my due diligence...and part of that is putting it out there for critical review and debate. Naturally, I prefer to stick to the issue at hand as much as possible and avoid the name-calling and petty comments. It seems we have arrived at that point.

The posters comments that it "doesn't make sense" to make the redemption process so difficult is exactly the point. Once the redemptions exceed $300 million its game over for the fed. Making compliance difficult, but not impossible, is the oldest bureaucratic trick in the book.

For an example, check out the driving "license" scam and all that follows.

Or not having a "social security" number and trying to get said license, or open a bank account or applying for a job...all of which ARE possible, but not without a lot of teeth grinding and bullshit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23393002


Golly gee, thanks for the heads op on legal definitions, nothing like that has ever been brought up here!

MIND BLOWN.

Restricted endorsements, lawful money REDEMPTION at local banks, demand per 12-USC 411 and Article III court record forming.

Good luck to you in dealing with the Federal Reserve member bank, please record or video your interactions, cause its going to be wonderful to see.
Anonymous Coward
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09/09/2012 09:51 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
"If I were to send you a greeting card, what NAME would I send it too?" ~ A local police man trying to arraign me ...
708
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09/09/2012 09:51 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Please allow me to interject. You are aware that the US govt. can seize precious metals in times of war or crisis, right?

You probably also know about the guys that became independent agents instead of employees and were paid with silver coins and declared their yearly income at around $1000 (the face value of the coins) and survived the legal meat grinder the IRS put them through without going to jail like Wesley Snipes.

As far as Wrong Paul goes, some paultard issued a press release on behalf of Ron Paul imploring people not to pay their income taxes. The instructions told people to sign and send forms to the IRS without declaring your income (filling in blanks with phrases like "none of your damn business, etc.), thereby fulfilling the law of completing the forms but supplying no numerical info.

Wrong Paul issued a retraction faster than you can say, "Yes, Massa," showing people that he was no revolutionary.
----------------------------------------

I'll let you get back to your discussion now:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6268713



As pointed out by seeker2, the gold coin guy and some of his co workers/family members are in Federal prison for tax evasion. Again, both cases already reviewed in this thread, in detail.

As for the rest of your post, thank you and for the most part, I agree.

Are you demanding your redemption and controlling your endorsement signatures? That is the solution and it has been proven to work.
seeker2

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09/09/2012 11:45 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
"If I were to send you a greeting card, what NAME would I send it too?" ~ A local police man trying to arraign me ...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22806170


First Middle
I assume your talking about getting a ticket. Prior to leaving your driveway. Get a new license, I lost mine.

Sign the new license First Middle

All rights reserved, When asked for a DL, Tell them you are not giving it to them as a form of ID but only to show you are competent to operate a motor vehicle. Then promptly sent the ticket to the authoring agency with big RED letter written accross. REFUSED FOR CAUSE. A ticket is an offer to contract and you have 72 hrs to refuse the contract even after its signed by you. You might think about signing the ticket REDEEMED IN LAWFUL MONEY also sk

If you read the thread you will see that I got two tickets and handled them this way. I have no warrants and have not paid said tickets and its been about 2 years. sk

708 probably has a lot more experience in this regard than me and perhaps he can add to it.
708
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09/09/2012 03:20 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Check out the "Pennsylvania Mutiny of 1783".

The reason the Federal Government was kicked out of the Republic was because it refused to pay the men who fought against the King in Gold or silver coin (lawful money).

Also, lots of good information on the history of national banking here:

[link to www.goldensextant.com]
708
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09/09/2012 03:29 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
There are clearly new posters here who have not read the thread.

So, for the record, I am not anti-Federal reserve nor do I question the national debt.

I simply do not believe I can lawfully be forced to pay debts and obligations I did not create nor do I endorse or accept as mine.

Nor can I be forced to do business with anyone I do not trust, be that Government or a private Bank. Thats it.
708
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09/10/2012 02:58 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
[link to i2.cdn.turner.com]

There is no more obvious proof of the 2 faced note than the new 100.

The separation of the 2 notes is so clearly marked that there in nothing about the clearly titled "FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE" on the left side.

The "ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS" is even separated completelyand only printed on the US Treasury Note to the right of the face.

Also, as on all US Treasury notes, the note on the right side is well over 50% of the Note, also notice the actual metal in the lower right hand corner of the US Treasury note.

There is no question which note is which. EVEN TO THE BLIND.

This new note puts to rest any question in my mind as to the validity of 2 faced NOTE. Which note are you using and how can you prove it?
Anonymous Coward
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09/10/2012 11:51 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
That picture is very interesting, to say the least.

I wonder why they changed the design after so many years of not delineating the "two bills in one" as you claim.

Is the dual bill theory a new development?
seeker2

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09/13/2012 12:19 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
For those that say that redeeming lawful money isn't working and is unrecognized the government. Take a look at the latest
DETAIL OF TREASURY SECURITIES OUTSTANDING, JUNE 30, 2011 -

[link to www.treasurydirect.gov]

Quote from page 11

Other Debt:
Not Subject to the Statutory Debt Limit:

United States notes ............................239

National and Federal Reserve Bank Notes assumed by the United States on deposit of lawful money for their retirement .................................................65


Silver Certificates (Act of June 24, 1967)......172
172
Other........................................... 11
Total Not Subject to the Statutory Debt Limit...487

foot note #14 Excludes $29 million National Bank Notes issued prior to July 1, 1929, and $2 million Federal Reserve Bank Notes issued prior to July 1, 1929, determined
pursuant to Act of June 30, 1961, 31 U.S.C. 5119 to have been destroyed or irretrievably lost
708
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09/13/2012 10:56 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
That picture is very interesting, to say the least.

I wonder why they changed the design after so many years of not delineating the "two bills in one" as you claim.

Is the dual bill theory a new development?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19124115


The 2 faced note is new (since about the late 90's with the advent of the "big head" notes, and frankly, it is better.

Having 2 different Notes for thousands of banks across the nation is a logistical nightmare. And in fact, proved so by the 200 years of physical redemption for separate notes (Red seals, Blue seals, National bank notes, internal notes, et al).

The 2 faced notes are a brilliant solution, the "US Reserve Treasury notes" do not get hoarded for their value as collector notes, they do not get check out clerks at stores/businesses confused by not matching every other note in their till, etc.

More importantly, it lets me, the redeemer of lawful money keep a detailed and easy to confirm RECORD of my demand and use of lawful money in all my personal business.

With my demand for redemption on every bank or cash transaction, there is no question of my actions, intentions or anything else. No need to get 'special notes' which are in limited supply and even more limited demand.

It also hides remedy better because, like the poster on this thread, people think that they must the super awesome US Bank note to be acting lawfully. It only took the money changers 200 years to figure it out how to print, circulate, and hide those notes for the least amount of work and cost with the highest degree of concealment.

Lines on paper maps have defined law, peace, war, legal territory, possession and controlled Nations for thousands of years, those same lines on paper clearly can define and separate 2 legal tender notes on one piece of linen paper.
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2012 01:57 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
I'm stunned! All these years studying the fed and G Edward hasn't made this connection? WTF?

[link to www.youtube.com]
708
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09/16/2012 10:23 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
I'm stunned! All these years studying the fed and G Edward hasn't made this connection? WTF?

[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1284970


He got the answer right about the coins. Maybe someone should bring him up to speed on what is on this thread?
708
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09/17/2012 01:14 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
BUMP, cause I am still learning from the discussions on this thread.
seeker2

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09/17/2012 04:43 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
BUMP, cause I am still learning from the discussions on this thread.
 Quoting: 708 20901334


Hi, M nice to see you around. You don't post much in the brain group. Those guy confuse me. lol. Still learning to. But at least you speak english in this thread. sk
Anonymous Coward
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09/17/2012 03:23 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
BUMP, cause I am still learning from the discussions on this thread.
 Quoting: 708 20901334


Hi, M nice to see you around. You don't post much in the brain group. Those guy confuse me. lol. Still learning to. But at least you speak english in this thread. sk
 Quoting: seeker2


Hello F, hope all is well with you. I still read and post some over there, lots of good new developments going on with the I R S and Art. III cases. I like to keep things basic and simple.

That report I found on US Notes NOT adding to the National Debt was pretty concrete evidence of what we have known for a long time and WHY this is so important for people to know.

There are some over there who still think the 2 faced note thing is a theory of mine, but that new 100 pretty much puts that to rest for me. Maybe a thread over there on that would be nice???

It seems our friend here does not want to discuss US Note physical redemption any more, or call us names.

Now where is my bottle of snake oil...
seeker2

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09/18/2012 05:57 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
M

I am attempting to bring the redemption process down to simple level so that All may benefit. Not just the lofty ones who can afford to spend 10 years studying law, and devise trust systems and understanding that are as complicated as the laws, statutes and code that we are trying to unshackle ourselves from. Hence my last post to the brain trust. Any thoughts. fB
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2012 09:11 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
bump
David Merrill
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09/23/2012 12:15 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
I am glad to see that great new example got over here for discussion!

[link to img836.imageshack.us]
[link to www.treasurydirect.gov]

Here is more to think upon!


[link to imageshack.us]

[link to img845.imageshack.us]
seeker2

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09/23/2012 12:36 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Nice of you to drop in. And thanks for the links. sk
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2012 10:45 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
bumphfyoda
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09/26/2012 11:46 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
lawful money bump for the win!
seeker2

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09/26/2012 12:45 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Thanks for the bump
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 01:57 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
For those that say that redeeming lawful money isn't working and is unrecognized the government. Take a look at the latest
DETAIL OF TREASURY SECURITIES OUTSTANDING, JUNE 30, 2011 -

[link to www.treasurydirect.gov]

Quote from page 11

Other Debt:
Not Subject to the Statutory Debt Limit:

United States notes ............................239

National and Federal Reserve Bank Notes assumed by the United States on deposit of lawful money for their retirement .................................................65


Silver Certificates (Act of June 24, 1967)......172
172
Other........................................... 11
Total Not Subject to the Statutory Debt Limit...487

foot note #14 Excludes $29 million National Bank Notes issued prior to July 1, 1929, and $2 million Federal Reserve Bank Notes issued prior to July 1, 1929, determined
pursuant to Act of June 30, 1961, 31 U.S.C. 5119 to have been destroyed or irretrievably lost
 Quoting: seeker2


EXACTLY Seeker2.

This is what I have been arguing all along with you and 708. Lawful money is held for redemption at the Treasury.

Now, show me a commercial bank which has LAWFUL money held on their books for redemption. I already showed the FED did, and you have shown the Treasury...SURPRISE! Just WHERE 12USC411 REQUIRES redemption to take place.

Wonder how 708 will spin that one?
seeker2

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09/30/2012 12:13 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
For those that say that redeeming lawful money isn't working and is unrecognized the government. Take a look at the latest
DETAIL OF TREASURY SECURITIES OUTSTANDING, JUNE 30, 2011 -

[link to www.treasurydirect.gov]

Quote from page 11

Other Debt:
Not Subject to the Statutory Debt Limit:

United States notes ............................239

National and Federal Reserve Bank Notes assumed by the United States on deposit of lawful money for their retirement .................................................65


Silver Certificates (Act of June 24, 1967)......172
172
Other........................................... 11
Total Not Subject to the Statutory Debt Limit...487

foot note #14 Excludes $29 million National Bank Notes issued prior to July 1, 1929, and $2 million Federal Reserve Bank Notes issued prior to July 1, 1929, determined
pursuant to Act of June 30, 1961, 31 U.S.C. 5119 to have been destroyed or irretrievably lost
 Quoting: seeker2


EXACTLY Seeker2.

This is what I have been arguing all along with you and 708. Lawful money is held for redemption at the Treasury.

Now, show me a commercial bank which has LAWFUL money held on their books for redemption. I already showed the FED did, and you have shown the Treasury...SURPRISE! Just WHERE 12USC411 REQUIRES redemption to take place.

Wonder how 708 will spin that one?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24668967

No spin required, I believe it shows that the redemption process is working and that those of us who have been redeeming lawful money is showing up on the balance sheets. sk
Anonymous Coward
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09/30/2012 01:12 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
bump
708
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10/01/2012 10:06 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
No spin required because the DEMAND for redemption is the issue, not the physical demand.

I have been told, but cannot verify, that at the regional level, there is an accounting of "lawful money demands" from the local banks recorded and reported to the FED and the Treasury.

That is what is being proved with the paper I provided. It is also proof there are actual "lawful money retirement accounts" which have nothing to do with the redemption demand I am talking about.

My question is WHO has those accounts and how did they get them?

I am not the one "spinning" by the way, I have already told you to go and demand your redemption "at" the Treasury or Federal Reserve, until you actually DO IT, you are "spinning" cause I am doing it at many banks and the IRS recognizes that fact.

You have had time to do it, but you just keep posting the same BS that has been proven wrong.

Thanks for the bump though.
708
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10/06/2012 11:16 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
New developments.

1. US Treasury notes are not "elastic currency".
2. US Treasury notes cannot be used "as a reserve currency" by Federal Law.
3. If a payment of Redeemed US Notes is tendered and accepted as payment. It remains "redeemed lawful money" and CANNOT be used as "reserve currency". If said amount and payment is included in normal deposits into a bank and fractionalised, the crime of "counterfeiting currency" has occurred.

Malfeasance and nonfeasance penalties also apply. :)

That crime is committed every time redeemed lawful money is used as a "reserve currency" or treated as such by Local, state and Federal Government agents and bank employees.

The US treasury agents and/pr Secret Service have jurisdiction over such cases and these crimes will be reported.

For those who watch these threads for intel gathering, you should inform those agents of Government their treatment of Redeemed lawful money is being watched, recorded and we will report your crimes to proper Federal and State Treasury agents.

Consider this "PUBLIC NOTICE".

By the way, US notes (redeemed per 12-USC 411 cannot be "refused" as payment, since they are, as issued, Lawful money.

End of NOTICE.
seeker2

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10/06/2012 11:27 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Thanks for the update.


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