Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

708, your answers are a bit weak. For example, you have derided others for providing anecdotal "evidence", yet YOU fall back on "knowing" others who tried something and failed...the same thing you have repeatedly blasted others for. Have YOU tried to redeem FRN's PERSONALLY...and, if so, what was the outcome?

Have YOU gone to the US Treasury and demanded redemption under 12USC411? If not, then you have no standing to opine on the facts in question. Speculation and conjecture lacking basis in fact, is all so much hot air. Correct me if I am wrong, but this thread purports to offer a LEGAL and LAWFUL avenue, relying on CODE...yet you do not advocate following the letter of the LAW, as it was written. Do you not realize that it is the LETTER of the law, not the SPIRIT of the law which has led this country down the dead end path it now finds itself?

The LETTER OF THE LAW snares the careless and simple-minded. It is their downfall and ruin. Jesus himself tossed those types out of the temple, or so it was written.

The remedy is there because it has to be...there is no choice. HOWEVER, it is not REQUIRED that the escapement is particularly convenient or easy to follow, and 12usc411 is not.

I have offered up a detailed "laundry list" of problems with your theories. You have danced and dodged around the very clearly delineated points and, ultimately, have fallen back on conjecture and supposition. You also have one foot in Seekers camp...the particularly WEAK conclusion that because the IRS is issuing "refunds", the methodology MUST be correct under law. This is a very dangerous, and totally unfounded, conclusion. You must realize that IRS returns and refunds are almost completely processed automatically. The computers assume correct "voluntary compliance" and process accordingly. In other words, if you SAY you are owed a refund, the IRS will give it to you. Doesn't mean anything more than that's how the system works. However, if the ratios between line items trigger a flag, it will go through a human review process...which might take months or years.

Go look at that idiot in Michigan who advocated filing zero returns or such nonsense. He ALSO advocated a system he claimed would not necessitate paying taxes, and///surprise! he used the Seeker approved proof of PRINTING many IRS checks from his minions showing once and for all that his method was IRS approved.

Of course, he ended up in the can and his students ended up paying hefty fines...many years after the book was published.

THE TRUTH...ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!

Bottom line, I am challenging you to put up or shut up. No more dancing and half-truths. If you people were complete morans, I wouldn't waste my time arguing. However, your underlying assertion on 12USC411 is, I believe CORRECT. Your execution is not. And getting things half-right is the same as being completely wrong.

So, again, I ask you to offer concrete proof of your assertions or withdraw them.

Put my finger on the law, or it ain't a FACT. My assertions come from the letter of the law and yours don't.

By the way, how would you know if I have been successful in redeeming FRN's for US Notes?...yet you ASSERT with confidence that I have not and have none in my possession. It is this same level of bullshit which sinks the rest of your story. Be advised that there are many here who are fully capable of rational analysis, not easily led, and know BS when they step in it

What the hell does "the proof is in the pudding" mean anyway? What proof? What pudding?

I for one am not going to dig through your pudding looking for the truth.

If 12USC411 is the code law, and it has not been ratified or changed, then why have you been unable to trigger the redemption mechanism? If you go to the FED bank, or the Treasury, or your local retail bank and show them the code law, why is it YOU that look stupid when they say they don't know what YOU are talking about. If banking is THEIR business, it is THEY which should be able to explain the process. You, and others have related numerous stories how tellers have pleaded ignorance or refused endorsements of redemption. Do you not find that odd? Perhaps it would be like going to the local McDonalds and presenting an invoice for payment for services provided to their corporate headquarters. They wouldn't know how to deal with that either.

If one headed to the US Treasury, Washington DC with a fistful of FRN's and a copy of 12USC411 and demanded redemption, do you think you would get a blank stare back? DO you think that SOMEONE in that building would know how to do a redemption? IT IS THE PRECISE WRITING OF THE LAW!

YOU THINK THAT THE LAW WOULD BE IGNORED IN THAT CASE?

COULD ONE NOT PETITION CONGRESS FOR REDRESS OF THE TREASURY FAILING TO REDEEM A PRIVATE CURRENCY FOR LAWFUL MONEY, PER CONGRESSIONAL LAW?

This would separate the wheat from the chaff quickly, and all this other bullshit would fall to the wayside. THE FRN's are either redeemable, or they are not. According to the clearly worded law, they ARE. But you morans are ASSUMING you can take the easy way and run to your nearest drive-thru and do what the LAW does not provide for...and you cannot provide one IOTA of proof that what you assert to be a lawful path of redemption is in fact authorized. It certainly ain't clear in the CODE! But redemption at the TREASURY, Washington DC IS.

Pick any code law and look how carefully the wording and verbiage is tweaked at random intervals. I guaran-fucking-tee that there are not laws on the books which don't belong there. If this wasn't a legitimate pathway, it wouldn't be here.

The presence of stupid assholes continues unabated here at GLP.

People who offer no rational arguments or refutations and clog up threads with unsupported allegations are the lowest of the low. Real mouth breathers.

Fuck off, asshole.

The truth must be getting out, as we have attracted two new trolls to our once peaceful thread. No matter. It is obvious based on their postings that they lack the ability to understand the obvious or are purposely discounting anything and everything that doesn't fit their agenda, which would seem to be disrupt the thread and try and convince others that redeeming lawful money doesn't work. If they new 708 and myself, they would know we both have successfully redeemed lawful money at our local banks. Thus freeing ourselves from the contractual obligations imposed on us by using unredeemed federal reserve notes. I for one am done attempting to communicate with one of them as it is clear what his goals and intentions are. sk

your comments are odd, to say the least.

Re-reading the poster you are referring to, he did not say that redeeming lawful money does not work, in fact he stated repeatedly that he believes that you and 708 are exactly right and have made an important discovery. What he disagrees with is that you have strayed from the redemption method exactly specified and codified in the language of the law. When he pressed you to defend your variances, you immediately call "troll" and get all defensive.

Either defend your position by demonstrating the PROOF of what you say, or consider the possibility that you, and others are WRONG. He already poked holes in your proffered "PROOF"...do you have anything else to put on the table?

Many people are trying to extricate themselves from this carefully laid web of lies, and it is a difficult path. When "seekers" turn on each other rather than those who would enslave them, progress is lost and many will give up.

Put another way, if you were in a court of law, where the standards of proof and evidence are strictly defined, would you rather defend a redemption process that adhered to the letter of the law...ie that you had traveled to the Treasury Washington DC and demanded redemption and were refused...or that you assumed the local bank branch was an AGENT of the FED, and you THOUGHT all you needed to do was write some stuff on the back of a check, or modify your banking agreement...or you THOUGHT because the IRS processed a refund check that you were good..etc etc.

Any one of those defenses which would easily be blown out of the water. If the FED testified that commercial banks were not AGENTS, but LICENSEES, how would you refute that? WHo would be believed?

If you offered up a handful of paper scraps with serial numbers and the local bank manager said "oh yeah, that nut kept coming in and harassing our tellers about redeeming money"...how far would that get you? To my reading NONE of this is stated in the language of the CODE..thus it does not exist in law.

It is a real shame that you and your kind fall back on bullshit to explain what you cannot prove when the TRUTH is staring you in the face.

As far as being a TROLL, why would you NOT advocate redeeming as per the LAW OF THE CODE? WHat is the downside in converting your frn's at the treasury, washington DC as provided in law.

COnvenience??

Great thread, by the way. I learned a lot.

Thanks to all who shared their experiences.

Well once again I must say that what works, works. No one is getting taken to court or getting frivolous filing charges, so they must be doing something right. Don't ya think. Just because you or him do not understand or agree with my interpretation of what the law says, doesn't mean I'm wrong and you'r right. But what I can tell you is that it works, for those no longer wanting to pay taxes. My bank at first cashed my checks with the a fore mentioned signature, then I presented a notice to the bank that I wanted all transactions through my account done in redeemed frn's has date stamp it and sign it (a teller) She then faxed it to the legal department. I later received a phone call and they said they could not accept this type of endorsement. But the very next day I was back in the back and they accepted a check with this endorsement. I sent the date stamped notice I had presented off to my case file with an article III court, entered my demand for the record. That's all I need do, because it is my demand that I can prove that I made that counts not whether the bank honors it or not. It is/was my intent to no longer endorse fractional reserve banking as practice by the fed using FRN's. Contract ending, no longer an agent or a bank, and if not one of those then someone using FRN's illegally according to the laws a for quoted. There is ample proof that the process works and if you have read any part of the thread you should have come across the saving to suitors forum which goes into great detail in regards to redeeming frn's by many more knowledgeable then me with posted proof that the redemption process works. I suggest you check it out "savingtosuitorsclub". I presented the vids and lots of information you can take advantage of it or not. Not my problem and I'm not going to do your homework for you. Read the thread and visit the suitors club. regard sk

^^^WARNING SPECIOUS REASONING ZONE ABOVE...LOL^^^


In order for your assertion that local commercial banks you claim hold the power of redemption to stand up, YOU must PROVE they are AGENTS of the FED, as it relates to the redemption process identified in 12USC411.

Yet another strike against your ASSUMPTION is that national bank charters are granted by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (a branch of the US TREASURY) which receives and processes applications to open and operate NATIONAL BANKS. The OCC also Operates the FDIC and is responsible for auditing the ongoing operations of the bank.

[link to www.occ.treas.gov]

Charters for STATE BANKS (ie, banks which operate only within the geographical limitations of a particular state) are made and granted by that STATE.

COMMERCIAL BANK CHARTERS are granted or rejected by the STATE and OCC/US Treasury Department.

It has already been demonstrated that the FED is a private organization, owned by its STOCKHOLDERS. That the FED's stockholders are COMMERCIAL BANKS does not, in and of itself, constitute AGENCY...just as a person being a STOCKHOLDER of GM does not authorize that person to ACT as GM's agent in their day-to-day business matters. Therefore, there is no DIRECT LINK between the public/governmental entities which have the power to create or dissolve banks and the PRIVATE FED, which supplies those commercial (state and nationally regulated) businesses with their PRODUCT...private credit notes...used by the COMMERCIAL BANKS...and for which the FED receives a FEE.

Since it is now demonstrated that commercial banks are not a part of the FED, that COMMERCIAL BANKS are separate, private entities which derive their authority and existence from the applicable non-FED public/state/national governmental regulatory agencies...

WHERE IS YOUR PROOF THAT COMMERCIAL BANKS ARE AUTHORIZED TO REDEEM FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES AS AGENTS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE?

Since national banks are created and regulated by the OCC, a United States governmental agency, it would be a more logical argument to assert that the COMMERCIAL BANKS were acting as redemption agents for the US TREASURY, since they are, at least indirectly, creatures deriving their power of existence from the US TREASURY. Note however, that 12USC411 SPECIFICALLY authorizes ONLY the US Treasury WASHINGTON DC (physical location) and says NOTHING about AUTHORIZED AGENTS of the Treasury. Thus, there is CLEARLY only one PHYSICAL REDEMPTION LOCATION FOR THE US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, and the GOVERNMENT/TREASURY has no authorization to assign AGENCY for the redemption of PRIVATE CREDIT fiat.

Now, the only remaining question is whether a FEDERAL RESERVE BANK, as used in 12USC411 is the same entity, and transparently intechangeable with COMMERCIAL BANKS, which are specifically NOT mentioned in the language of 12USC411.

Does using the product of the FED in their daily business automatically confer AGENCY on the private company using that product?

If McDonalds acquires napkins for use in their business, does that relationship between McDonalds and their vendors automatically allow McDonalds to act as the napkin suppliers AGENT?

Clearly this is not the case; AGENCY would only exist if there were a contract in place AUTHORIZING McDonalds to act as the napkin suppliers AGENT...the fact ALONE that McDonalds uses napkins DOES NOT demonstrate AGENCY.

This explanation should be clear enough for even the dimmest-wit to either offer up PROOF to back up their previous assertions, or at least have the dignity to cut-and-run as 708 has apparently done.

Seeker, it is up to you to carry the burden of ignorance forward or modify your procedure to address the letter of the law in the redemption process to prevent others from the train-wreck you and 708 are promoting here. Keep in mind that not all of those following this thread are scared off by huff-and-puff bluster, ad hominem attacks or other tactics which do not address the meat of the point in question.

12USC411 Provides REMEDY as it is written. Why pretend otherwise?

From 12USC411

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

List of Federal Reserve BANKS and BRANCHES:

(13) Federal RESERVE BANKS
[link to www.federalreserve.gov]

(24) Federal RESERVE BRANCH LOCATIONS
[link to www.federalreserve.gov]

Have YOU been making your claims for redemption at one of these banks or branches per 12USC411?

IS YOUR BANK ON THESE LISTS?

If not, you are not following the law and your claims are NULL AND VOID.

Definition of FEDERAL RESERVE AGENT

the director who is designated by the board of governors of the Federal Reserve system as chairman of the board of directors of a Federal Reserve bank and who acts as official representative of the board of governors to the bank

you little federal reserve agent you ..


Police Officer trying to arraign me "If I were to send you a letter , what NAME would I send it to" .....

Its a demand ... not a claim, and not an argument ..


its game set match and your trade is the first to go

Whats gonna suck is whne everyone under 35 realizes what endorsement is ...

gonna suck for you

Tell all that to the IRS who is presently giving refunds and not going after people who redeemed frn's at their local bank. So while you may think that I'm doing it wrong. I know at least 100 people who are currently doing this and some have been doing it for 4 to 5 years. So present all the links definitions you want. I'm seeing David's method of redeeming lawful money work. If your trying to convince me, don't bother as I see it working daily. sk

But I do appreciate your do diligence.

Much Love

What you also seem to be saying is the the only authorized use of FRN's then is by a few fed banks and an Agent (its says agents) So I guess that would make everyone else using them a criminal. So before you go to any court for anything your already guilty and fraud. lol sk

One should never talk of impossibility to the one who is busy doing the work. The one doing the work since 2007 doesent have time for that shit anyway. I redeem and am Sui Juris. I respect your posts on alot of other doom man, but just because you know stories about halfassers getting taken down, doesent demean my success. I might politely suggest you are out of your depth here. You are aware of something sure. In that field of knowledge, some of us have 1000 hrs or more research, docs filed, remedy applied, and success at preserving our liberty on the land AT LAW. If someone elses failure were a good reason not to try, we would never have industrialized as a society.

So it is now clear that an Agent of the Federal Reserve is NOT a commercial bank!

The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 grants the FED with MONOPOLY power to issue Federal Reserve Notes, a system of PRIVATE (Debt Based) Credit which, by fiat (or decree) is LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE. This endorsement found on all Federal Reserve Notes makes 708's contention that their use by ANYONE, free man or bound, is precluded by 12USC411 and, further that such use AUTOMATICALLY makes the USER and AUTOMATIC AGENT of the FED and thus subject to federal taxes ABSURD. THERE IS NO SUCH NEXUS.

The Federal Reserve Corporation, acting under congressional charter by authority of The Federal Reserve Act of 1913, is located in WASHINGTON, District of Columbia and thus subject to Federal Laws and Acts.

The AGENTS of the Federal Reserve, as defined above, are the 12 REGIONAL Federal Reserve DISTRICTS, each of them which are separate corporations and each of which are authorized to exclusively act as AGENTS of the Federal Reserve in their geographically defined districts:

[link to www.federalreserve.gov]

The ONLY REDEMPTION as authorized by 12USC411 MUST take place at a FEDERAL RESERVE BANK or BRANCH identified in the links provided earlier. COMMERCIAL BANKS, as SEEKER and 708 claim, are NOT AUTHORIZED to redeem FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES!

Thus their claims to avoid paying TAXES legally by "redeeming" FRN's through COMMERCIAL BANKS is NULL and VOID and a COMPLETE FRAUD.

Check and Mate!

Well I guess this means you won't be redeeming any FRN's and will keep paying taxes, enjoy.

As for myself I will continue to redeem FRN's on demand at my local bank, and not incur any tax liabilities.

I understand your logic, but I think it is flawed. sk

I do DUE diligence because I have seen, over and over, how DANGEROUS half-baked "truths" and shoddy research have landed well meaning and sincere people into great difficulties and great peril.

This thread is a perfect example of that. Someone has found a "truth" relating to the difference between elastic private credit and inelastic public money but FAILED in the execution of how that conversion MUST be made!

I have laid out in great detail why I am right, and you are wrong, and you STILL refuse to admit your methodology is a FAILURE. Keep in mind that IF you are wrong, And IF the unwary attempt to avoid paying taxes based on your FLAWED methodology, there will be serious consequences! Do you want to be responsible for leading others astray?

You have offered up your PROOF that you are correct by offering up anecdotal "evidence" that you, and "hundreds of (unnamed) others" have not yet been harassed by the IRS. I have already offered an explanation for that from the standpoint that the presumption within the IRS system is that the taxpayer has filed a VALID RETURN...based on the fact that the TAXPAYER has also signed an AFFIDAVIT, UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY...that everything on the return is TRUTHFUL and ACCURATE. The fact that the IRS has not yet challenged your return..and the return of "hundreds of others" doesn't mean shit in an organization processing 100 million or so returns per year. Further, consider that there is really no "cost" for the processing of returns to the IRS, since the currency is created out of thin air, but the REAL COST is in the exposure to civil and criminal sanctions when the challenge is made against the taxpayer, and the taxpayer attempts to mount a defense based on your limp wristed assumptions and "proofs". Seriously, how far do you think that is going to get you in an administrative court system RUN by the IRS and with the power to levy!

(From my earlier post: the particularly WEAK conclusion that because the IRS is issuing "refunds", the methodology MUST be correct under law. This is a very dangerous, and totally unfounded, conclusion. You must realize that IRS returns and refunds are almost completely processed automatically. The computers assume correct "voluntary compliance" and process accordingly. In other words, if you SAY you are owed a refund, the IRS will give it to you. Doesn't mean anything more than that's how the system works. However, if the ratios between line items trigger a flag, it will go through a human review process...which might take months or years.)

Complete and Utter BULLSHIT. Particularly when the LAWFUL REMEDY is so clearly spelled out in the code! WHy in heavens name would one deviate from what the law so clearly and expressly states?

If you intend to do the redemption, then stay within the bounds of the DUTY imposed upon you! Redeem through the TREASURY or FEDERAL RESERVE BANK or its AUTHORIZED AGENT. You now have the proper address and contact information to do so.

As far as the comments that I am some AGENT (lol)of the government or FED, only the most ignorant would disregard my PROOF as demonstrated and ignore the TRUTH. You and 708 have repeatedly rejected anecdotal evidence from former bankers and "someones uncle" but resort to the same tactics when YOU fail to prove your assertions.

I am not trying to change YOUR mind, since you appear to lack the capacity to assimilate contrary positions or interpretations, or defend what you claim with REAL PROOF. However, to the TRUE seekers who are coming here to try and help themselves I have dedicated my research.

Note also that it took all of a few hours to punch holes in your redemption claims

Seeker, I haven't even begun to research the connection between the use of federal reserve notes and the "DUTY" to pay Federal taxes...if, in fact there IS one.

Regardless of any connection between private credit usage and ones obligation to file a tax return, I believe that redemption of FRN's for US NOTES is a MUCH larger, and more important issue than taxes alone.

From my research, it is clear that the issuance and USE of PUBLIC FIAT instead of PRIVATE DEBT is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE facing Americans...now or EVER.

Many people know that the entire proceeds of the 1040 taxes go to paying interest on the public debt!

Of course, paying interest on the PUBLIC DEBT is necessary because the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is BORROWING the deficit amounts from the FEDERAL RESERVE at interest! Eliminate the need to borrow from the FED by issuing US NOTES and the need for the 1040 tax return is ALSO eliminated!

My point is that you and 708 have done a great service alerting many to the power of redemption, but then fucked up by providing an incorrect path of private credit redemption! You will see that if your redemption process starts getting some significant attention due to increasing numbers participating, the IRS will most certainly focus appropriate resources towards "correcting" this "misunderstanding"...it's really just a question of numbers and time. Go look at the IRS website and read about the various schemes that people were absolutely sure would work...and all their followers whose proof of the veracity of the claims stemed from the fact that "others were doing it and it worked for them".

What ultimately happens then is that the ENTIRE ISSUE of redemption will be tainted and the true power not realized..."oh yeah, redemption....someone tried that a few years ago and the IRS went after them..." How many times have you heard THAT?

If people were educated as to the true story of public money vs private debt as well as the correct method of redemption, the issue of 1040 taxation would go away for all...and the power to coin and regulate the value of money restored back to congress where it belongs!

Seeker, I have been extremely specific and documented my statements from the source law or Federal Reserve...thus I cannot "seem" to be saying ANYTHING. You do not have to read between the lines whatsoever.

Having said that, you may now show me where I made ANYTHING even remotely resembling what you have claimed. 12USC411 talks about the fact that the FED, and its AGENTS are authorized to issue FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES in any quantity they so desire, and provides the means to OPT OUT of using FEDERAL RESERVE notes.
I also referred to the fact that EACH Federal reserve note clearly states that is is LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE.

I am baffled by your interpretation of what I "seem to be saying"

Again and for the record, I NEVER have posted that REDEMPTION takes place at my local bank.

Again and for the record, as already posted by me in this thread, the DEMAND is made on the RECORD with every bank transaction via RESTRICTED ENDORSEMENT and DEMAND for lawful money per 12-USC 411.

Again and for the record YOU cannot access the red sealed US Bank NOTES.

Again, and for the record, US BANK notes are FIAT money, while backed with 300 million in GOLD coin, they are not REDEEMABLE for those coins. Therefore, FRN/US Treasury notes found on the FACE of every currently issued NOTE above the 1 and 2 dollar serve "essentially" the same purpose as the US Bank notes (red seal) did, being non-redeemable in Gold or silver coin AND being FIAT currency.

Since you do not believe that LINES and boarders drawn on Paper have any legal and lawful meaning, I counter with the FACT that NATIONS are divided, legally and lawfully by NO MORE than LINES DRAWN ON PAPER.

A US Treasury note is BORDERED, BOXED IN, SEPARATED and DEFINED the exact same way.

As for me going to a Federal Reserve member bank and demanding the NOTES you have not proven can be obtained, I do not need to, since you have not proven YOU can and have done it. I never claimed you could, you are making the claim I have to do that to comply with 12 USC 411.

Nowhere in 12 USC 411 does it state where the DEMAND must be made, only the where the REDEMPTION of FRNS must be made, therefore, I choose to make my demand where the IRS is going to LOOK FOR MY DEMAND, on every single ENDORSEMENT I make anywhere I do business with a BANK or any other Government agency.

When you can prove you have gotten access to the US Bank notes you need so bad, then do it and bring your proof here for all to see.

The paper BANK notes are not the issue, the DEMAND for lawful money is the issue.

Again, I already posted, I cannot REDEEM SAID NOTES (FRNS) and never claimed I could. I have claimed it is NOT NEEDED, since the RECORD OF MY DEMAND FOR LAWFUL MONEY IS RECORED ON EVERY NON-ENDORSEMENT.

If you are too dense to understand where I stand on this issue, so be it, that is not my problem. I cannot spell it out any clearer and you are a waste of time. I respond only for those reading this thread who might think you have a valid point, when in fact, you do not.

The contract between Congress, the BANKS, the Treasury and the Federal Reserve is NOT my issue, nor is the actual, physical REDEMPTION of FRNS for some other NOTE, my DEMAND and non-endorsement of their corruption and extra constitutional agreement IS my issue.

The fact is, up to this day, the IRS has NEVER made a claim for income tax on ANYONE demanding per 12 USC 411, therefore, YOUR claim that t does not free myself of the OBLIGATION to pay said TAX is irrelevant, I think the IRS has the final say on who is doing it correctly, not YOU.

If you do have the right to say what the IRS does or does not do, you would not be here making such claims, you would be doing it in FEDERAL COURT.

There is all the proof I need that YOUR opinion means jack shit.

CHECK MATE THAT, Quatalooser.

"Agents"...plural.

I already provided the contact for the 24 AUTHORIZED AGENTS of the Federal Reserve.

OBFUSCATE MUCH?

how aabout YOU provide us with YOUR method of "redeeming lawful money" right here, right now and end this debate?

YOU claim we are doing it wrong, well, prove YOUR way of doing it right. I will wait.

Of course, I want to see some actual TAX returns (there are some posted at the links to Davids forum). I want the IRS to agree with YOUR method (which you have no provided yet) before I agree with it.

I would love to see your method. Or are you just here to point out what YOU think is wrong with the method the IRS has agreed with for the past 10+ for many people?

BTW, do not try to give me that crap the the IRS just has not had time or is 'waiting' to jump on those redeeming per 12-USC 411.

Quataloosers is full of high level Government shills and agents and they have been directly confronted and challenged to put this question before a Federal Tax court and they have not done it and its not because "theres not enough people doin it".

I do not buy that for one second.

You are welcome, its been a long road and has cost me more than I would choose to lose again, but the past cannot be changed.

Show us your method and provide your proof it works.

I will consider any posts you choose to put here without your proof and method as no more than a



for the thread.

Food for thought...

It clearly states in the wording - THEY shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand...

THEY - can only be referring to a person - natural, corporate, or legal entity...

When writing a check - the words "Pay To The Order Of" are clearly imprinted... Then we write the name of the person, or legal entity we give the check to... This is an order for that legal entity to pay - this is a draw of the THEY, into the treasury...

Once the THEY is in the treasury, in order to keep it alive, an interest must be paid... It is the THEY in the treasury, and the accruing interest that represents the deficit...The deficit, IMO is the lawful money owed to the people...

The question, IMO, is exactly how to we go about demanding this money... I understand the premise of this thread, in that certain people are not allowing the THEY to accrue in the deficit, and not incurring a tax liability...

But, that does not resolve the issue of recieving additional monies owed to them... Monies earned through wages is not sufficient to tackle the rising costs and inflation issues...

Further - In the Canadian "Bills of Exchange Act", it clearly states a crossed cheque is a warrant for a dividend... Crossed cheques are what we write all the time...A warrant can also be considered as a warranty, an insurance to be redeemed at a future time...

The question remains - HOW...

I am going to point out one thing.

There have even been some "success" of suitors who have been caught up in "tax protestor" issues and have been assessed 'frivolous filing' fees.

Said suitors have begun demanding redemption of lawful money, opened Article III case filings and told the Government, the Treasury and the IRS in that record and notices that had they known about demanding lawful money per 12-USC 411, they would have been demanding it since their first paycheck/bank transaction.

This seems to this point to have stopped any court action on a Federal level against these suitors.

There is more information on this at the saving to the suitors site linked in this thread.

So, not only has the IRS not taken any court action against those demanding/redeeming lawful money, they have actually backed off those who might have proceeded to Federal Court action against those who learned about it after being "on the list" of the IRS.

This, to me, means much more than some poster on GLP claiming "snake oil" remedies by me and providing no remedy in his posts.

Well, YEAH, but the sad state of affairs is this, we do not have access to the Gold and Silver coin, at face value (and cost).

I have pointed out, NOTHING gets "paid for" with fiat money, only Gold and silver coin can "pay for" a thing.

The real question is when I work, who has the obligation to pay me?

Well, that is easy, the one who holds all the Gold and Silver coin.

The Treasury controls that trust (where the 300 million is held) and has since 1933 (and prior to that during the civil war and for some years after).

So, unless and until I or YOU accept that obligation onto your "self" they owe you and me the money once we restrict our endorsement(s) and demand it.

Will they pay it? I have not been paid yet, so my answer to that is NO, but its on the record they OWE IT.

Also, on any check I receive, I always cross out the "to the order of" and leave only the "pay to" on the check, I have never had a bank teller take issue with it.