Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

Responses in RED...

QUATLOOSER...LOL

Another bump from the shill-leader!!

Thanks!!

Lets keep this thread on the front page even longer!!

Lewis v United States provides PROOF that Federal Reserve Banks are NOT commercial banks...

Each Federal Reserve Bank is a separate corporation owned by commercial banks in its region. The stockholding commercial banks elect two thirds of each Bank's nine member board of directors. The remaining three directors are appointed by the Federal Reserve Board. The Federal Reserve Board regulates the Reserve Banks, but direct supervision and control of each Bank is exercised by its board of directors. 12 U.S.C. Sect. 301. The directors enact by-laws regulating the manner of conducting general Bank business, 12 U.S.C. Sect. 341, and appoint officers to implement and supervise daily Bank activities. These activites include collecting and clearing checks, making advances to private and commercial entities, holding reserves for member banks, discounting the notes of member banks, and buying and selling securities on the open market. See 12 U.S.C. Sub-Sect. 341-361.

Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982)

Note the differentiation that the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK is a separate corporation OWNED by commercial banks in the region.

So, it is clear that COMMERCIAL BANKS are NOT FEDERAL RESERVE BANKS...RIGHT? Can you get that one idea clear?

Moving on, 12USC411 is VERY SPECIFIC that redemptions must take place AT (physical location) The Treasury Washington District of Columbia OR any FEDERAL RESERVE BANK.

Isn't that CRYSTAL CLEAR?

How can you thus maintain that YOU CHOOSE to disregard that and make a "claim" at a commercial bank? And, not even following the LAW in that regard, FURTHER CONCLUDE that by doing so, you no longer are required to pay FEDERAL INCOME TAX.

Stupid, stupid man. Put up proof or shut the hell up. Some people may be taking you seriously here.

Nice retort 708...everyone can appreciate an intellectual, fact based debate.

Even those who read quatlooser!

LOL

708 HELPER MONKEY THREAD--Repeat Reading Until Comprehension Takes Place:

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

Since certain people are so "letter of the LAW".

!2 USC 411 clearly states that FRNs are to be used strictly by Federal Reserve AGENTS, and no other purpose is authorized. (no other MUST include using them as legal tender for debts. So, the notes being used as "legal tender" is actually forbidden by the very law that authorizes and defines the FRNs sole authorized use.

But hey, those guys who WROTE the law, restricting the Notes use and then claiming it is "legal tender for all debts public and private" are "smarter" than I am. Yeah, they are brillant masters of letter of the law.

He also proclaims I am not a FEDERAL RESERVE AGENT. Since Federal Reserve agents are the only ones authorized to use FRNS then they are also the only ones who can REDEEM said notes...

AT the Federal Reserve BANKS. Thus, there is no redemption possible and we are all criminals without remedy from the ills of the Federal Reserves private notes.

So much for a "letter of the law" that makes it impossible for anyone of us peons to redeem (or demand redemption) of the notes.

The fact remains, the poser does not speak for the Federal Reserve, the Treasury nor the IRS. (Or does he?)

The IRS has a very clear page on "frivolous arguments" and even though several years, and in some cases, decades have passed with people demanding redemption at their local banks (and getting full refunds of witheld tax payments and interest) not one word about 12-USC 411 in any IRS publications being frivolous, but that is just because "not enough people are doing it".

But, the poster who has not 'done' anything knows what I and others are currently doing knows I am stupid and wrong.

In the mean time, we keep on making our demand, controlling our own records in Article III courts and stopping various presentments and offers from the District of Columbia...

I guess none of those things are actually happening, even though, they are public record and recorded in District courts all over these united States.

Hmm, maybe the Feds are just waiting for the right moment to strike down idiots like me who think redemption from the man gods is really possible.

Note how the FED answers the question of what constitutes LAWFUL MONEY:

What is lawful money? How is it different from legal tender?

"Lawful money" is a term used in the Federal Reserve Act, the act that authorizes the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System to issue Federal Reserve notes. The Act states that Federal Reserve notes "shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank." The Act did not, however, define the term "lawful money," but up until 1913, the only currency issued by the United States that was legally recognized as "lawful money" was various issues of "demand notes" (subsequently known as "old demand notes") and "United States notes" authorized by Congress during the Civil War.

At the time, some currency was not considered legal tender, although it could be used by national banking associations as "lawful money reserves." Thus, the term "lawful money" had a broader meaning than the term "legal tender."

In 1933, Congress changed the law so that all U.S. coins and currency (including Federal Reserve notes), regardless of when issued, constitutes "legal tender" for all purposes. Federal and state courts since then have repeatedly held that Federal Reserve notes are also "lawful money." Milam v. U.S., 524 F.2d 629 (9th Cir. 1974), is typical of the federal and state court cases holding that Federal Reserve notes are "lawful money." In Milam, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reviewed a judgment denying relief to an individual who sought to redeem a $50 Federal Reserve Bank Note in "lawful money." The United States tendered Milam $50 in Federal Reserve notes, but Milam refused the notes, asserting that "lawful money" must be gold or silver. The Ninth Circuit, noting that this matter had been put to rest by the U.S. Supreme Court nearly a century before in the Legal Tender Cases (Juilliard v. Greenman), 110 U.S. 421 (1884), rejected this assertion as frivolous and affirmed the judgment.

Note that in Milam, the plaintiff demanded LAWFUL MONEY in the form of gold and silver redemption, which by code was already precluded. In other words, Milam asked for a remedy not allowed by code law...although perfectly in line with the Constitution.

Reading the carefully crafted answer DOES prove that US coins from the mint and US notes ARE lawful money as I had speculated in an earlier post. So it appears that many have failed in redeeming frn's for GOLD OR SLIVER coin which, by code LAW is not allowed. However, it is equally clear that these same folks could have prevailed in pressing for payment in coin or US notes, and presumably the FED would have been in compliance with any court order by TENDERING EITHER as payment to the plaintiff.

Conclusion: Most people do not understand the significance in converting private federal reserve notes for public us notes and coins, since both, by decree are equally acceptable in commerce. As a result most people will never understand the enormous significance that such a conversion act would have on the economic well being of the country.

Trading elastic private notes for inelastic public notes (us notes) OR converting all transactions to coins (or perhaps usps money orders) would serve to eliminate the national debt and eliminate governmental debt service...which, as I stated before ELIMINATES the need for the 1040 income tax legally AND lawfully.

"Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized."

Maybe the shill-leader should take his own advise and actually READ the LAW.

Clearly, he has made the argument that I am not a "Federal Reserve AGENT'"

(or is he now changing this?)

Clearly, FRNS are only to be used BY Federal Reserve AGENTS and only for ONE authorized purpose, "of making advances to Federal reserve banks".

Read that again and again till that sinks in Mr. "letter of the law". I am not authorized to do anything with FRNs, even redeem them at Federal Reserve Banks.

It is against the law for me or YOU to use them as "legal tender for "all debts public and private".

So, nobody but Federal reserve agents can use them and then, only for "making advances to Federal Reserve banks".

Seems those god men who wrote the law and are so much smart than I am cannot even come up with a LAWFUL excuse for writing "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUPLIC AND PRIVATE" on a note that is not issued for that purpose and is, in fact, only has 1 (ONE) authorized use.

Where is the amendment to 12 USC 411 that allows FRNS to be used "for any other purpose or by anyone BUT Federal Reserve Agents, Mr. Letter of the law?

OK, so we are using private money from a "for profit" corporation - so how about creating our own private money for our own use?

Wouldn't you like to be a part owner as a tenant in common or beneficiary in a trust that was operating your own banking system?

Get some clues: Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 43)

I cannot "convert" FRNS into anything, because, like the shill-tard has posted, 12 USC 411 clearly spells out that only Federal Reserve agents are authorized to use FRNS and ONLY for their authorized purpose.

What the FED writes about what is or is not "lawful money" the Notes can be redeemed for is not relevant since they have ZERO Constitutional authority to define lawful money for the people of the Republic.

Quoting what the FED says like it has some kind of lawful right to define "lawful money" for the Republic is stupid. As for the courts, we all know the District of Columbia is not Governed by the law of the land (the Constitution for the united States of America) therefore, their courts definitions are questionable at best and clearly wrong (unconstitutional) in some cases.

The money changers have controlled people with half-truths and outright lies since before the Civil War and continue to do so today.

And to DATE the ONLY remedy that I have seen work is what I and others have outlined in detail on this thread.

That may change tomorrow or the next day, but for NOW, it is working and has worked for many, many people for many years.

Take or leave it, I am not your boss.

And go to prison for "creating a competing currency like the guy who made the "liberty dollar?"

No thanks. But let us know how it works out for you, I am open to it.

At least on this point, you are trying to fathom the LAW AS WRITTEN. I believe you have missed the mark by a wide margin.

12USC411

Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized.

How do I interpret this? That the Federal Reserve System is authorized to issue FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES...in unlimited quantities as they themselves (without congressional oversight) deem prudent and necessary THROUGH THE CHANNELS ALLOWED BY LAW...namely the issued NOTES are advances to the Federal Reserve Banks based on the methodology that the Board of Governors has codified.

In other words, the FED BOARD can crank out all the FRN's they want, but those which they create MUST flow through the regional Federal Reserve Banks...and the extent to which those banks can ABSORB all those FRN's are defined via reserve holdings (now codified in the BASEL III laws) and their ability to lend...again previously limited based on reserve requirements, which were suspended indefinitely during the last banking "crisis".

I believe the intent was to allow the FED to issue notes aplenty, but only through the banking system and NOT a blank check whereby the FED BOARD could print unlimited FRN's and go on an asset buying spree. In other words, the Board of Governors was precluded from using the power of the printing press to buy whatever they wanted.

This is my theory only, but I believe this limitation was deliberately breached during the banking "crisis" whereby the FED created north of 16 TRILLION dollars and allocated it to international banks, brokerage houses and large corporations deemed critical to the economy or TOO BIG TO FAIL. They shortcut the trip through the regional fed banking system which probably pissed off the local franchisees...all done under the exceptional market condition clauses which have been referenced in the last year. I believe there are some challenges to the FED's actions in this regard, but as one might imagine, it is not receiving any MEDIA attention, what with all the battle of the stars competitions and americas got talent finals and whatnot.

It's all deliberately murky as clearly the FED believes it operates outside on the jurisdictional control of congress and the courts...and I guess it does. But in this case the shortcut broke the law and there has been some noise.

The literal reading of this sentence as meaning that no one other than the FED can use FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES seems absurd on its face as witnessed by the NUMEROUS COURT FINDINGS (only one of which is referenced earlier) holding that FRN's are both legal tender and lawful money...both of which are clearly within the purview of NATIONAL CURRENCY. Look up the definition of NATIONAL CURRENCY and then make an argument that FRN's cannot be used in private transactions or in public commerce.

Try again Einstein. Don't think that I haven't noticed that you are avoiding the other, more relevant points which I have taken the time to answer/refute in great detail and with cites and supporting law.

YOU can clearly create a competing currency...many communities have done exactly that.

YOU CANNOT create a currency, or any monetary instrument, which might likely be confused with an established currency or fiat.

The liberty dollar that Einstein referenced was busted because of the similarity of the coin design and use of such words as LIBERTY. I'm not defending the charge or conviction, just clarifying that the charge had to do with the confusion issue, not that competing currencies can't be developed.

You will find, as other have, that adoption of your new standard will be difficult, as it was initially for the FED. The government had to crack a few metaphorical skulls to get the job done, including confiscation of the true lawful money of the day.

The REAL counterfeiting is when the coins were debased starting in 1964. The COnstitution clearly defines the metal content of various denomination coins, and the purity and amount. Another real fraud conducted with nary a murmur from the sheep

The FED was using court cases, valid under common law and stare decisis, to try and weasel the FRN's to be LAWFUL MONEY, which they clearly are NOT. I noted the case which framed the issue and asked for the wrong remedy. You are correct that the FED cannot define lawful money, and that fraud, deceit and deception are par for the course, but wrong about everything else.

What I have found in my research is that there is always ONE CORRECT REMEDY for every FRAUD committed against the people. However, the REMEDY is not necessarily easy and must be followed to the LETTER OF THE LAW. One cannot arbitrarily CHOOSE to follow a different path, no matter how reasonable, or convoluted, that persons logic seems.

Follow the letter of the law, and then rely on that as a sound defense for ones actions.

Carry on, dimwit.

In the case cited above, instead of demanding gold or silver coin, which was precluded by LAW, the plaintiff should have asked for payment in LAWFUL MONEY and see what the court ordered payment would be. From my research, the only two options would be US NOTES or US MINT COINS.

US MINT coins would raise a new argument...namely that they were counterfeit since the Constitution CLEARLY defines the gold and silver content of coinage. I think that argument would have merit because it brings the lawful money issue back into the Constitutional/public money forum.

Then the only LAWFUL remedy would be the issuance of US NOTES...

Well, when the IRS agrees with you, then we will have something to talk about.

When you can provide tax returns of with held taxes and interest paid back to those playing your way and you can back it up with actual returns, let me know.

As usual, you provide NO evidence or proof of your 'remedy' while people like David and Seeker2 have.

Good for you on your theory and the name calling is a great touch, you are just the kind of guy I would dismiss my 5 plus years of study and understanding on.

For now, the IRS is agreeing with the "dimwits' demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411 (yes, at local banks) and forming their own record in the District Courts.

If your intention was to win anyone over to your method of redemption to the issue of elastic currency, I, for one am not moved. Others are free to do what they wish.

But, again, thanks bumping the thread.

"Then the only LAWFUL remedy would be the issuance of US NOTES..."

All the notes I use are US Treasury notes, you just refuse to see the remedy and notes that are right in front of you. Please prove me wrong, there are clear LINES between the FRN side and the US Note side, as I have pointed out. If nations can draw lines on a map and define their own borders with lines on paper, certainly lines and boarders on LEGAL NOTES have significant meanings, even if YOU are ignorant to them.

But I am a dimwit, I admit, I have been called much worse by people I hold in much higher regard than you and survived it.

You, and others, Keep bringing the IRS into the question of lawful redemption of FRN's. Personally, I do not understand where this connection, in the LAW, has ever been made in this thread.

Show ME The Law where REDEMPTION of FRN's discharges an OBLIGATION, or DUTY to file a TAX RETURN.

You have yet to prove that YOU understand the LAWFUL METHOD of redeeming FRN's for LAWFUL money...even though it is clearly spelled out in the ACT and I have painstakingly pieced together ALL of the elements in question to demonstrate, not what I say, but what the LAW says.

And you still try to obfuscate the PLAIN FACTS OF THE MATTER.

If you don't get this, I doubt if you have done the research PROVING the NEXUS of taxation lies in the use of PRIVATE DEBT NOTES.

I am willing to debat that later, after thorough research. In the meantime, don't try and escape the central point...which is that LAWFUL REDEMPTION CAN ONLY OCCUR in the clear-cut letter of the law.

You, and others, should clearly understand that if the interest paid for the use of private debt is ELIMINATED by the widespread switch to public money, the whole issue of the IRS is moot anyway, since the totality of all 1040 collections are used to pay the interest on the national debt.

All that needs to be done is to get the redemption done properly and the issue of taxation becomes IRRELEVANT.

It is the easy, clean, legal and LAWFUL answer to everything you purport to accomplish, yet you eschew the simple and clean solution to your pet theories...and in the meantime leading OTHERS down the wrong path.

You're right. What I see when I look at the private debt notes are FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES, clearly and boldly spelled out on the top of the bill. I DON'T see anything saying US NOTE, or anything that indicates this is anything other than a FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE.

Says so all across the top of the bill. FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE.

Lines, boxes and other theories don't really denote a counterpoint to what is clearly stated on the bill. I do understand how the Treasury, as guarantor of the Fed's issue, also signs the note and attests by their seal, as I have explained previously.

Contract law, as a requirement, requires full disclosure. Lines and suggestions don't meet that criteria.

Also, the FED tracks how many bills are issued and those figures are liabilities on their books. If the Treasury, as you claim, owns half of the bill, show me on their public balance sheets where that liability is held on their books. You WILL find US notes, issued but not in circulation...so how do they account for the half-currency you claim they have issued? Are the commercial banks reconciling their redemptions via your method on THEIR books? Show Me The Money..that is, how is that internal reconciliation taking place..or are the banks ignoring your redemptions.

Your theories are convoluted and unsupported. You suggest because you have not been prosecuted, that you are doing it the right way...which is lunacy.

I believe you have been discredited, and your theory does not bear the test of intellectual scrutiny. I do, as I have several times past, commend you on the work you and others have done to bring this important question to light. It is unfortunate that you cannot overcome your stubborn biases and continue your quest to a successful conclusion.

Its seems to me that our new found friends primary purpose is not to find remedy but to try and discourage the redemption method we are using. For this reason I suspect he is nothing more than a shill employed by those in power, who must be feeling pretty desperate to send someone like him to post on this thread. Which leads me to the conclusion, that our redemption method is working well and more people are using it. Once a fire begins provided it has fuel it continues to grow exponentially and it would seem this fire has plenty of fuel. The people are waking up and demanding redemption from the current fiat system, which has lead to the near collapse of this once great country and it has all been done by design by those who would seek to enslave humanity.

You have your remedy, its really up to you whether you use it or not. If not now, when. sk

PS thanks for all the bumps in your efforts to dis-swayed readers from redeeming FRN's as I'm sure many people have benefited as a result.

Last Edited by seeker2 on 09/04/2012 12:24 AM

Seeker, you and 708 should step back, take a breath, and try and engage an objective thought process before typing your, yet again, stupid comments.

Agreed Seeker2.

I want to add that anyone who believes there has ever been "full disclosure" by any Government in any action, agreement or contract or act is so utterly stupid and blind it is difficult to believe they have anything to offer here.

That one statement shows a total lack of interest in the truth of any matter when it comes to the Cult of Government. The very definition of CODE is to HIDE the true meaning of the language.

Also, I can find not one account of anyone, anywhere, at any time who has walked into a Federal Reserve bank and redeemed any note for any Gold or silver coin.

When the Green back of the Civil War era was redeemed, it was "redeemed" by holders at their local banks, in fact, it was common practice for local banks to hold US Gold and Silver coins for just that. Same goes for Gold and Silver certificates, which I know my own Grandfather 'redeemed' at our local bank several times.

Look at the history of bank robbers, who commonly hit local banks and stole large amounts of Gold and Silver coins, why would those coins be there if redemption for paper claims was "at Federal Reserve member banks" only?

For him to come here and say you must go to a Federal Reserve Bank or the Treasury for redemption ignores over 2 centuries of united States History and actual practice, the very definition of "common law." Silver coin "redemption" of paper notes (INCLUDING Federal reserve notes) continued AT LOCAL BANKS until 1968!

The guy is an idiot, a liar, or just a shill, but he is good for bumping this thread, so I hope he continues.

And, look what I found:

"As of June 2011, the U.S. Treasury calculates that $230 million in United States notes are in circulation, and excludes this amount from the statutory debt limit of the United States. This amount excludes $25 million in United States Notes issued prior to July 1, 1929, determined pursuant to Act of June 30, 1961, 31 U.S.C. 5119, to have been destroyed or irretrievably lost.
[link to www.treasurydirect.gov]

There goes the shill-leaders claim that there are no US Notes in circulation at this time.

That also proves that US notes are NOT part of the statutory debt limit, meaning that the US recognizes US NOTES as money and NOT DEBT. Another clear distinction between DEBT (FRNS) and the lawful moneyFRNS are to be redeemed for upon demand.

There you have it, proof that US Notes are still in circulation, and proof that the Government still recognizes a US Treasury note as LAWFUL MONEY and NOT DEBT.

The remedy is still there, the Government knows it, I know it and I use it and my DEMAND is recognized by them, the IRS tax return checks and 1040s by Suitors proves it.

Since the Treasury admits there are about 250 million US Notes in circulation.

HOW, exactly, can a man or woman redeem FRNS (or any credit) at Federal Reserve Banks? The NOTES are in circulation (in the hands of the public) and NOT held at Federal Reserve member banks!

Federal law still mandates there has to be a MAX of 300 million US Notes in Circulation for public use (and redemption for those demanding it).

There is no better way to meet this requirement for people who do NOT have the red sealed notes and the BANKS could not get them since no new US Notes have been issued since the 1970's.

The only viable option would be to includea US Note on every newly issued FRN (as I have pointed out) so anyone making their demand for lawful money could be given their lawful money!WOW, those guys really ARE smart! Hiding that pesky 'lawful money' US Note right there in plain sight!

Again, this is for the FRN above the 1 and 2 $ denomination, since, as I pointed out, those easily 'redeemed' in US Coin upon demand at any bank, or grocery store, for that matter.

Maybe the letter of the law (redemption AT Fed member banks by federal reserve agents) is not being fully filled when I demand redemption at the gas station for a 1 FRN for 4 US .25 cent coins, but the coins are still not property of the Federal Reserve and are public money.

So easy a cave man could get it. But the 'expert' on this thread cannot figure out how to get those dang US Notes he so deeply needs for redemption...and the letter of the law states he has a right to get UPON DEMAND.

from an article on the FRN (published in the early 1900's)
the series of articles compares and contrasts the various forms of US paper currencies.


"The fifth class, which is the Federal reserve note, likewise differs from the other four. This note is similar in some particulars to the national-bank note in character and in the procedure for issuing and redeeming it"
[link to www.oldandsold.com]

Even in the early 1900's it was clearly known and accepted that the place to demand and redeem all paper currency was at the local BANK.

Does the shill-at-large really expect me to ignore over 200 years of banking, legislative and common practice where people would redeem paper currency of every National form at their local banks?

But now, I would have to travel hundreds or thousands of miles to a "Federal Reserve member bank" to demand and redeem Federal Reserve Notes?

NEVER, in any issuance of any federal/National currency was there any presumption nor assumption that redemption could only take place at a few places in the Continental US. National Currency (even if not backed or fractionally backed by gold or silver reserves) was attractive to people because they could redeem it at any participating local bank!

In fact, one of the main reasons 'private bank' notes of individual and State banks was done away with in favor of National banks was because of the distance one had to travel to redeem notes or the limited number of banks/stores/people that would accept them as a legal tender.

Historically, the further away you were from the issuing bank, the less the NOTE was worth due to the hassle of getting redemption in coin or US Notes.

The entire premise of the FRN MUST BE REDEEMED AT Federal Reserve Banks is utterly stupid and ignores the entire historical nature and reason for Central/National banking/currency in the united States.

Take a breath, accept that your premise is flawed and STUPID and start demanding your redemption or remain ignorant to the FACTS and HISTORY and act like you know what you are talking about.

From the Treasury Website:

What are United States Notes and how are they different from Federal Reserve notes?

United States Notes (characterized by a red seal and serial number) were the first national currency, authorized by the Legal Tender Act of 1862 and began circulating during the Civil War. The Treasury Department issued these notes directly into circulation, and they are obligations of the United States Government. The issuance of United States Notes is subject to limitations established by Congress. It established a statutory limitation of $300 million on the amount of United States Notes authorized to be outstanding and in circulation. While this was a significant figure in Civil War days, it is now a very small fraction of the total currency in circulation in the United States.

Both United States Notes and Federal Reserve Notes are parts of our national currency and both are legal tender. They circulate as money in the same way. However, the issuing authority for them comes from different statutes. United States Notes were redeemable in gold until 1933, when the United States abandoned the gold standard. Since then, both currencies have served essentially the same purpose, and have had the same value. Because United States Notes serve no function that is not already adequately served by Federal Reserve Notes, their issuance was discontinued, and none have been placed in to circulation since January 21, 1971.

Yeah, except the US taxpayer pays INTEREST to use one and not the other...and that issuance of US NOTES does not add to the Federal deficit lol

The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 authorized the production and circulation of Federal Reserve notes. Although the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) prints these notes, they move into circulation through the Federal Reserve System. They are obligations of both the Federal Reserve System and the United States Government. On Federal Reserve notes, the seals and serial numbers appear in green.

I found the following which is interesting, although I have not yet found any supporting confirmation:


To illustrate how some people were confused by this, consider the following correspondence between the U.S. Treasury and citizen of Cleveland. 2


December 9, 1947
Honorable John W. Snyder
Sec. of the Treasury
Washington, D.C.

Dear Sir:

I am sending you herewith via registered mail one ten-dollar Federal Reserve note. On this note is inscribed the following:

"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private, and is redeemable in lawful money at the United States Treasury or at any Federal Reserve bank."
In accordance with this statement, will you send me $10.00 in lawful money?
Very truly yours,
A.F. Davis

*****
December 11, 1947
Mr. A.F. Davis
12818 Colt Road
Cleveland 1, Ohio

Dear Mr. Davis,

Receipt is acknowledged of your letter of December 9th with enclosure of one ten dollar Federal Reserve note.

In compliance with your request, two five-dollar United States notes are transmitted herewith.

Very truly yours,
M.E. Slindee,
Acting Treasurer

*****
December 23, 1947
Mr. M.E. Slindee
Acting Treasurer
Treasury Department
Fiscal Service
Washington 25, D.C.

Dear Sir:

Receipt is hereby acknowledged of two $5.00 United States notes, which we interpret from your letter to be considered lawful money. Are we to infer from this that Federal Reserve notes are not lawful money?

I am enclosing one of the $5.00 notes which you sent me. I note that it states on the face,
"The United States of America will pay to the bearer on demand five dollars."

I am hereby demanding five dollars.

Very truly yours,
A.F. Davis

*****

December 29, 1947

Mr. A.F. Davis
12818 Colt Road
Cleveland 1, Ohio

Dear Mr. Davis:

Receipt is acknowledged of your letter of December 23rd, transmitting one $5 United States note with a demand for payment of five dollars.

Your are advised that the term "lawful money" has not been defined in federal legislation. It first came to use prior to 1933 when some United States currency was not legal tender but could be held by national banking institutions as lawful money reserves. Since the act of May 12, 1933, as amended by the Joint Resolution of June 5, 1933, makes all coins and currency of the United States legal tender and the Joint Resolution of August 27, 1935, provides for the exchange of United States coin or currency for other types of such coin or currency, the term "lawful money" no longer has such special significance.

The $5 United States note received with your letter of December 23rd is returned herewith.

Very truly yours,
M.E. Slindee,
Acting Treasurer

*****
It is understandable how reasonable people can become confused when studying the history of the terms 'lawful money' and 'legal tender' in U.S. history. The blame for this rests with Congress who never bothered to define lawful money when it first used the term. However, the line of thinking that it is defined by the constitution as only gold or silver coin is incorrect. The constitution makes no such definition. Moreover, the restriction that States not make anything but gold or silver a legal tender does not apply to Congress, only to the States. Congress may declare anything it wishes a legal tender. And as the history above shows, it certainly has.

Here is the link: [link to famguardian.org]

the post above clearly shows (its been posted already in the thread) that legal tender isnot lawful money until it is accepted or endorsed as such.

The cleverly worded responses that Lawful money is not defined is utter and complete tripe. The founding LAW of the land defines the Dollar of the united State as a gold or silver coin of specific weight and purity.

Just because some bought off judge claims there is no such definition of lawful money of the land is does not make it true.

Gold and Silver coin have been considered lawful money for payment of debt since written history has recorded such things. And its role as lawful money of the land in this nation is not in question, accept for paid off judges and justices who would not understand "original intent" if it slapped them in their faces and if they did, they would lie about it.

The law of the land is NOT what they say it is, nor has it ever been, it is self evident and comes from a higher source than the men in black dresses defending their private banker overlords.

FRNs shall be redeemable in lawful money on demand, how the hell can they be redeemable in lawful money if they are lawful money when they are issued?

Utter double speak nonsense.

Since the FED must maintain lawful reserves (in the form of Treasury securities and other lawful money on a 1:1 basis) it would seem that the FED Notes are already endorsed and bonded since the Treasury (and us citizens) are guarantors of FRN's via the FULL FAITH AND CREDIT clause. In other words, the FRN is worthless without the guarantee provided by the treasury, of which the signatures and seal appear on the FRN...and would seem to require no further endorsements.

[link to www.youtube.com]

Looks like someone tried to do a lawful money redemption and the FED person told them to go to the treasury.

Note, he wasn't reacting like the commercial banks did...they just said they didn't do redemptions there.

The major difference is this: US notes are always obligations of the USand obligations of the US are NOT SUBJECT TO INCOME TAX.

Federal Reserve NOTES (and other private debt are obligations when they are issued, but once endorsed or used for unauthorized purposes, they become obligations of the endorser. and all taxes, debts and obligations are passed from the Government to the endorser.

That is a huge difference, and its not just 'interest' obligations the endorser takes on, its all the debt represented by Federal Reserve Credit/debt.

All of this has been posted in the thread.