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Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/13/2011 11:41 PM
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Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
[link to motherjones.com]

Tue Jan. 11, 2011 12:48 PM PST

"What was going on in Jared Loughner's mind? Based on his online rantings, the man who allegedly emptied a 31-round clip into Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and dozens of bystanders Saturday was preoccupied with theories on a massive government fraud. Many of his seemingly random statements—on "grammar," "the ratifications," "the new currency," and more—echo the teachings of the "sovereign citizen" movement, a right-wing school of thought alleging that Americans have been surreptitiously stripped of their God-given rights.

These are not random parallels, as I discovered in reviewing Loughner's YouTube videos. In multiple instances, he uses the precise talking points sovereign-citizen theorists teach via a thriving cottage industry of books, websites, bogus legal companies, and seminars; one popular theorist, David Wynn Miller, told the New York Times that Loughner has "probably been on my website." (It's important to note that the sovereign-citizen movement is a philosophy, not an organized movement; Loughner's interest in its teachings doesn't implicate any individuals or organizations in his actions.) A few cases in point, taken from a video Loughner posted on December 15, 2010."

<snip>


""The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar." (3:34)

As the Guardian's Peter Walker and Politico's Carrie Budoff Brown reports have pointed out, this is the basic premise of the sovereign-citizen argument, which posits that government has used linguistic devices in certain laws to strip us of our rights. "This is an extraordinary freaking word game," says Alfred Adask, a guru of the sovereign movement and former publisher of the sovereign-citizen magazine AntiShyster, told me. "Not many people know how to do it or even understand it. The government has ensnared us with the sophisticated use of words and put us back into bondage. You have to master the definitions and start working out with a law dictionary.""


more on link.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/14/2011 12:19 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
bump

this should be pinned but from what I've seen on this site I'm guessing it wont be.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/14/2011 01:00 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
bump

waiting for someone to debunk this...
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 01:05 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
[link to motherjones.com]

Tue Jan. 11, 2011 12:48 PM PST

"What was going on in Jared Loughner's mind? Based on his online rantings, the man who allegedly emptied a 31-round clip into Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and dozens of bystanders
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1183061


according to the socialist publication Mother Jones, the assassinated Federal Judge was merely a "bystander".
Doom makes me horny
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01/14/2011 01:09 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
kinda interesting theory.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 01:10 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
BTW, there's nothing to debunk.
When Oswald was set up as the "assassin" of Kennedy, he was portrayed as a left wing lunatic and Castro lover even as the real assassins and real motive fled.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/14/2011 02:53 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
bump
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/14/2011 03:43 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
bump

if this showed he was a left-winger it would be pinned right now.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 03:45 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
bump

if this showed he was a left-winger it would be pinned right now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1183061


That's for sure.

Here's a bump anyway.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 03:51 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
its the middle of the fucking night here..relazx
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 03:53 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
Many of his seemingly random statements—on "grammar," "the ratifications," "the new currency," and more—echo the teachings of the "sovereign citizen" movement
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1183061

Completely misunderstood misinterpreted and screwed up by a mentally ill person who should have been on meds.
Just like some mentally ill people think cat in the hat is telling them to stab people.
C74R1TY-44

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01/14/2011 03:55 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
lol

Dude was either sleep deprived or an MK victim. Trying to "make sens of his mind" is like trying to find meaning in tea leaves.
The storm is closing in to begin again from the beginning. Never sitting through my waking life oblivious. The ignorance running rampant through the city is indicative of something worse; this picture isn't pretty.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/14/2011 04:18 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
bump
bump before i go to sleep... I saw this reported on cnn late night tv too...you fucks can try to ignore it but its going worldwide.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 04:26 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
Very worthwhile checking the link on this. I came across this stuff couple of weeks ago here at GLP. It was some old woman in a baseball cap lecturing about what I now see is core Sovereign Citizen philosophy. She was very emotional. Maybe someone else recalls it?

This is quite mind blowing.

‘"No, I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver!" (3:34)

A core sovereign-citizen belief is that when the United States went off the gold standard, the government started using citizens as economic collateral—using our future earnings to secure foreign debt in a sort of giant Ponzi scheme. In this theory, you exist as a regular flesh-and-blood person, but there is also your "corporate shell" (often referred to as "the straw man"), which exists merely on paper and is created when you sign up for a Social Security card.

If all this sounds confusing, that's because it is, even for sovereign citizens themselves. "I have a hard time believing it, but you keep seeing examples again and again," says Adask. "As fantastic as it might sound, they [the government] have literally created an alternative reality." Likewise, Johnson says "we have been living in a matrix world." It follows that sovereign citizens, unlike the tea party movement, don't believe in working to change the government; they insist that all of it is an illegitimate scam we must simply reject.’
[link to motherjones.com]
susano

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01/14/2011 04:31 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
Southern Poverty Law Center propaganda.

Do you know who is most insistent that "words have meaning"? The BAR ASSOCIATION. You (and Mother Jones and the SPLC hate mongers) may as well blame Black's Law.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 04:39 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
Southern Poverty Law Center propaganda.

Do you know who is most insistent that "words have meaning"? The BAR ASSOCIATION. You (and Mother Jones and the SPLC hate mongers) may as well blame Black's Law.
 Quoting: susano


It's a parallel legalistic world that has ensnared people in convoluted and incomprehensible jargon.

"As fantastic as it might sound, they [the government] have literally created an alternative reality."
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 04:41 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
I really dont understand this.. unless that "other" forum is just pulling off one big BS advertisement for itself to get popularity

the so called posts of this shooter look to me.. the ones about the space shuttle and the mars rover look to me as if they came out of a word generator program.. punched through bablefish translator from some European language and then spat out again as english..

people are saying he obsesses over grammar yet in his supposed posts.. he doesnt seem to have a grasp of basic wording nevermind english..

is it 2 different people.. or what the hells going on.. im confused
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 04:43 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
Southern Poverty Law Center propaganda.

Do you know who is most insistent that "words have meaning"? The BAR ASSOCIATION. You (and Mother Jones and the SPLC hate mongers) may as well blame Black's Law.


It's a parallel legalistic world that has ensnared people in convoluted and incomprehensible jargon.

"As fantastic as it might sound, they [the government] have literally created an alternative reality."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 870381


And yes lawyers are prime beneficiaries of the system that spawned them.

It's bizarre really that people need a lawyer to defend them in a court of law. It's because they dont understand the LAWS of this alternative universe that polices, prosecutes and punishes them.
susano

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01/14/2011 04:46 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
I really dont understand this.. unless that "other" forum is just pulling off one big BS advertisement for itself to get popularity

the so called posts of this shooter look to me.. the ones about the space shuttle and the mars rover look to me as if they came out of a word generator program.. punched through bablefish translator from some European language and then spat out again as english..

people are saying he obsesses over grammar yet in his supposed posts.. he doesnt seem to have a grasp of basic wording nevermind english..

is it 2 different people.. or what the hells going on.. im confused
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1229497



You may have hit on something. Could be that ATS was part of the psyop.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 04:57 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
I really dont understand this.. unless that "other" forum is just pulling off one big BS advertisement for itself to get popularity

the so called posts of this shooter look to me.. the ones about the space shuttle and the mars rover look to me as if they came out of a word generator program.. punched through bablefish translator from some European language and then spat out again as english..

people are saying he obsesses over grammar yet in his supposed posts.. he doesnt seem to have a grasp of basic wording nevermind english..

is it 2 different people.. or what the hells going on.. im confused



You may have hit on something. Could be that ATS was part of the psyop.
 Quoting: susano


I hope so, I didnt mention it because of how the other forum is kind of like taboo in these parts.. but seriously did anyone else see that crap.. I wondered how in the hell they knew it was the shooter.. there seemed to be nothing connected to it.. and the bloke posting sounded as if he couldnt find his own left foot nevermind shoot someone

its all very odd
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 05:31 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
When are People going to stop using Ad Hominem attacks in relation to this situation? You are also using another fallacy called "Appeal to Fear". You are setting context that is a Person were to believe any of the things that Loughner did, then you must be insane, and are going to shoot someone. This line of reasoning also involves the fallacy "Confusing Cause and Effect".

This is not done directly but by subtle association of the Person to the Believe.

"Misleading Vividness" is also being applied.

In fact, there are several fallacies rolled into one at play.

Society at large uses fallacies everyday. This can be empirically observed by the MSM, boards such as this, and with talking to People in everyday life.

Grammar IS important. From Grammar comes our concepts of reality. In fact, there is an entire subset of definitions that are used in the legal system that have entirely different meanings from which they are used in normal life. Any first year Law Student can tell you that.

Another fallacy you make is equating "sovereign citizens" with the right wing school of thought. This is not true, as any amount of "your own" research will point out.

The Government infringing on Rights is taking place and has been for some time. That is the Nature of Governments anyway, all paths lead to Rome so to speak.

Controlling Grammar is a form of Mind Control. Again, Language forms our concepts of reality, this is not debatable. Every year the dictionary gets smaller and smaller, this is a well known fact. Go into the "Blacks Law" dictionary and read for yourself the meanings of words and how they apply to a Person under Law, and how the ordinary Person relates to these words from the standpoint of how they are normally used in everyday life, opposed to how they are used in Law, and you will understand.

Also you might like to read the book "1984" to get an understanding of the concept of "newspeak"

The reason I am pointing out that "you" are making these fallacies is because of the title "Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession"

That is a statement. It is obviously a statement in which "you" believe otherwise you would have not posted this thread. You are using other Peoples words to support your believe. Hence, you are the one making the fallacy in relation to this thread, by perpetuating other Peoples fallacies.

How original of you.
Judeth

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01/14/2011 05:39 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
blinker I guess he must have got one to many visits from...:spellingpo:
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 06:04 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
bleed out


sounds like some of the crap his controllers
were putting in to program him was oozing out
of what was left of his mind.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 06:10 AM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
[link to motherjones.com]

Tue Jan. 11, 2011 12:48 PM PST

"What was going on in Jared Loughner's mind? Based on his online rantings, the man who allegedly emptied a 31-round clip into Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and dozens of bystanders Saturday was preoccupied with theories on a massive government fraud. Many of his seemingly random statements—on "grammar," "the ratifications," "the new currency," and more—echo the teachings of the "sovereign citizen" movement, a right-wing school of thought alleging that Americans have been surreptitiously stripped of their God-given rights.

These are not random parallels, as I discovered in reviewing Loughner's YouTube videos. In multiple instances, he uses the precise talking points sovereign-citizen theorists teach via a thriving cottage industry of books, websites, bogus legal companies, and seminars; one popular theorist, David Wynn Miller, told the New York Times that Loughner has "probably been on my website." (It's important to note that the sovereign-citizen movement is a philosophy, not an organized movement; Loughner's interest in its teachings doesn't implicate any individuals or organizations in his actions.) A few cases in point, taken from a video Loughner posted on December 15, 2010."

<snip>


""The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar." (3:34)

As the Guardian's Peter Walker and Politico's Carrie Budoff Brown reports have pointed out, this is the basic premise of the sovereign-citizen argument, which posits that government has used linguistic devices in certain laws to strip us of our rights. "This is an extraordinary freaking word game," says Alfred Adask, a guru of the sovereign movement and former publisher of the sovereign-citizen magazine AntiShyster, told me. "Not many people know how to do it or even understand it. The government has ensnared us with the sophisticated use of words and put us back into bondage. You have to master the definitions and start working out with a law dictionary.""


more on link.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1183061

i basically said the same thing but i didnt metnion that org it is obvious what laugnher was saying when he said about grammer

its what legal speak is clever use of words- lawyers argue to interpret the constition when people like laughner say its already clear what the constitution is saying and was meant to be written in a clear way.
They do the same with the bible, they theorise and interpet words so their meaning is obliterated and the direct purpose of languages OUTCOME doesnt bear any relationship to the orginal intenet of the writings and the twisters of the grammer get their own way (which is the furthering of a socio political agenda by use of deciet.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/14/2011 01:38 PM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
bump
just thinking
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01/14/2011 01:46 PM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
[link to projectcamelotproductions.com]


to utube
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 02:47 PM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
bump
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 03:20 PM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
[link to www.newsweek.com]

"his material on grammar, in particular, likely comes from the writings of the Milwaukee-based, far right activist David Wynn Miller. As Potok explains it, Miller “believes in a ‘truth language’ that can throw off the government. If you use the right combination of colons and hyphens you don’t have to pay taxes. Miller is virtually the only person who pushes these ideas on grammar, it’s a very unusual idea, even on the radical right.” For his part, Miller tells The Daily Beast/Newsweek that Loughner has never reached out to him, but that “I expect he’s been on my website… He’s just repeating things I’ve had up on my site the past 11 years.”"
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 03:29 PM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
[link to www.cbsnews.com]

"Potok, who follows the far-right fringe, also picked up on the apparent roots of Loughner's suggestions that the government was engaging in mind control through grammar - an antigovernment extremist named David Wynn Miller, who ascribes nefarious intent to, among others, the U.S. Postal Service.

David Wynn Miller told Politico he agreed with Loughner's statement in a YouTube video that "the government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar."

Loughner's claims in his videos: "I'm able to control every belief and religion by being the mind controller!"


Miller's website is, to put it charitably, confusing. He appears to believe that by changing the punctuation of one's name - adding hyphens and colons, for example - a person can transform into a "prepositional phrase" not subject to taxation. "
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 03:38 PM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
woman without her man is nothing

Case in point. Screw up the grammer or the application or teaching of the 'rules of grammer' and you can have two or more grammatically coded ways of passing 'coded' messages in wide open public discourse where only the 'in group' know exactly what you are really sayin. D.C. Doubletalk, the Texas Two Step, and the majority of the MSM telepromter script writers are fully aware of this.

Its not only the Government. Why do you really think there is so much poor poor grammar on the MSM talking heads on Cable these days, and even mispellings on the scrolling marque lines at the bottoms of the 'news' channels screens?

But the conspiracy is so wide and deep that it is not even mainly a HUMAN conspiracy but that of powers higher than even mankind.

Near the end of every republic in history, and near the end of every empire that has fallen in history, is the total corruption and short-cut text writing, and an extreme use of acronyms rather than spelling things out. ROTFLMAO, BTW. ICU don't really appreciate what I am really saying hear. But do you here what I mean? Mispeilings hear are intentationall.

Also, redefine words, by rewriting the dictionaries and lexicons the 'always new' generation is being taught in elementary school and thereby gar-ran-tee a perpetual generation gap in communications.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2011 03:46 PM
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Re: Explained: Jared Loughner’s Grammar Obsession
[link to www.newsweek.com]

"his material on grammar, in particular, likely comes from the writings of the Milwaukee-based, far right activist David Wynn Miller. As Potok explains it, Miller “believes in a ‘truth language’ that can throw off the government. If you use the right combination of colons and hyphens you don’t have to pay taxes. Miller is virtually the only person who pushes these ideas on grammar, it’s a very unusual idea, even on the radical right.” For his part, Miller tells The Daily Beast/Newsweek that Loughner has never reached out to him, but that “I expect he’s been on my website… He’s just repeating things I’ve had up on my site the past 11 years.”"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1217359

I've been hearing this stuff for over 50 years.. nothing new here at all. Religions use various grammatical rules systems to come up with a reason to be different from other religion, sects, creeds or denominations ( be they Buddisht, Islam, Shinto, Christian, Jewish, atheist, etc., makes no matter).

Two basically different ways of reading the US Constitution even, the Originalist interpretational approach, and the Construcionist Interpretational approach. Evne teh US SCOTUS talks about this. The Constructionalist is the one that really focuse on the claim that there is a proper and definite set of solid rules to any given written and evne spoken language. For the most part this is only true of DEAD langauges because Dead languagw are no longer being changed by day to day use and new applications. Old documents need to be understood in light of the way the language used to write them was being used at the time the document was written and the dictionaries and lexicons and grammars used by the writers themselves. This is the Construcitonalist approach.

Misteach or deliberately wrongly teach the grammar rules and constantly improperly apply the grammar both in writing and reading and you can decieve many people who have been otherwise trained in a different grammar system as to what was supposed to be the proper grammer.

The Word Smyths are some of the most powerful Magi on Earth at any given time.

News