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The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012

 
Strawberry

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01/17/2011 05:17 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
be careful. The Creator needs no sex nor partner, mother, husband or lover.

So who is this "creator" that you're referring to!?

Is that the same "Divine Creator" that the moran should get a "brian" from or just any other average BS Buy-Bull or Sell-Bull Creator!?

+1 (Neo)


I have found no full account of the Creator in any book, speech, documentary, movie or story that i've read or heard. All seem to have scraps but none seem to be the complete truth and all seem to have a lot of deception.

To me all these stories seem as accounts of petty family squabbles among the TPTB who wish us to idolize their ancestors as they do.

Yet the Creator is. I know it from my own life experience and research. I cannot tell you when or where i knew this, but i can tell you that the wave that approaches i believe comes from the Source and it will change everything.

Not even TPTB where here the last time the earth passed this cycle. I'm not even sure they know what lays ahead.

I do not think the Creator needs any worship, sacrifice or ceremony. Simple humility, compassion, and respect towards all Creation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1232531


I totally feel this too. I have this deep knowing that you are right.
~Are we there yet?~
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 05:47 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
be careful. The Creator needs no sex nor partner, mother, husband or lover.

So who is this "creator" that you're referring to!?

Is that the same "Divine Creator" that the moran should get a "brian" from or just any other average BS Buy-Bull or Sell-Bull Creator!?

+1 (Neo)


I have found no full account of the Creator in any book, speech, documentary, movie or story that i've read or heard. All seem to have scraps but none seem to be the complete truth and all seem to have a lot of deception.

To me all these stories seem as accounts of petty family squabbles among the TPTB who wish us to idolize their ancestors as they do.

Yet the Creator is. I know it from my own life experience and research. I cannot tell you when or where i knew this, but i can tell you that the wave that approaches i believe comes from the Source and it will change everything.

Not even TPTB where here the last time the earth passed this cycle. I'm not even sure they know what lays ahead.

I do not think the Creator needs any worship, sacrifice or ceremony. Simple humility, compassion, and respect towards all Creation.


I totally feel this too. I have this deep knowing that you are right.

 Quoting: Strawberry

bump clappa
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 05:50 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
Are the two witnesses 9 and 11 or ophinuchus and capricorn?
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 09:09 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
****Im Ordained in the Mysteries, Ill Explain to You Ophiuchus, Zeitgiest, and the Sun/Son...
Quote

Ill explain for you, Im ordained in the Mysteries. Jesus was called a Son/sun cause we all live the same 12, now 13th zodiac thru each year, We go round and round and round if we liken our life spark to the Sun . We go round and round and round year by year from birth to death. We live the Zodiacs/calendar each year until we die.

To initiates the challenege lies to escape off the wheel. which the Ophichus might be implying, Michael battling the dragon or serpent. (conquering our taming our fears and believing in ourselves that we may gain wisdom) Instead of the Serpent being our downfall in Eden, the Serpent becomes the Healing Pole Staff of Moses.

When we escape off the 12/13 zodiac wheel we then gain eternal life and can experience the rest of the 75 constellations as a Immortal being.

Imagine, being immortal and living out what Perseus represents and Argo, and the secrets of Orion and so much more.
gus
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01/17/2011 09:21 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
the nature of reality itself is defined by 12 archetypes/energies/aspects + a "hidden" one -> the 13th

all truth and advanced knowledge comes originally from the 13th factor. it's the key to all of Creation.

Ophiuchus represents the 13th factor in the zodiacal system, that's why it's kept hidden. Indeed, it points to the center of the galaxy. Indeed, it only returns to "mass consciousness" at the end of the galactic cycle. THis periodic return is also due to the precession of the equinoxes.


[link to conspiracybase.blogspot.com]
gus
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01/17/2011 09:24 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
When we escape off the 12/13 zodiac wheel we then gain eternal life and can experience the rest of the 75 constellations as a Immortal being.

Imagine, being immortal and living out what Perseus represents and Argo, and the secrets of Orion and so much more.
 Quoting: SOL INVICTUS NATALIS


the 13th energy is precisely the one that transcends the zodiac wheel of 12. but then, once we reach the new 'octave' , the liberating 13th energy becomes the 1st energy again as it initiates a new cycle of 12.
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 09:47 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
The question of importance of this 13th sign initiation, is why the msm made news of this 13th sign news...NOW. Clearly it was included in the zodiac throughout history

We are being told something of significance.
Even if it is symbolic or ritualistic in nature.

Convinced the ears and eyes that can see and hear it will.

13 means too much for it to be a random moment for this...

Esoteric... Yes. Probably too much so for most... Which is not unusual.




YES! Why now?
 Quoting: duFontaine



For real it seems like the number 13 especially among others is EVERYWHERE right now, it's as visible in the media as the number on a star athlete's jersey when they are receiving mass media coverage. (i.e. when jordan played basketball everyone knew what "23" was, get the analogy?)

And well that analogy is actually not so far off base when you look at it the right way huh?
DoomZOMB

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01/17/2011 10:02 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
I don't understand if there is a new zodiac...... wouldnt there have to be an extra month?? im kind of confused.........
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 10:57 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
at the bird on the back of the dollar bill, is infact, the Benu Bird / Sagittarius Serpentarius NOT an eagle.
 Quoting: duFontaine


The Benu's own birth is attributed to self generation....and is linked to the sun...the bringer of the light...so it makes sense it would be...America was originally thought to be a self created country...it makes sense that the bankers at the design would incorporate this symbolism into the money.

Again...symbolism of the creator creating.



In some beliefs the eagle is not separate from the phoenix or benu bird...but regarding the benu...the legend goes it became the 'soul' of Osiris and the symbol for the planet Venus-the morning star Which precedes the sun out of the Underworld and is the herald of a new day.

The Benu Bird continues to be 'he who created himself'-a form of the High God.


~R.T. Rundle Clarke's book Myth and Symbol in Ancient Egypt
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 11:08 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
That "power" belonged to all of us at one time. Check this out. Even the buy-bull says the same thing. BOTH male and female made he them and called THEIR name Adam. Originally there was no Adam AND Eve; there was only the Adam (male and female in the same body).

Zeus gathered the gods in council to express his concern that these unusual creatures would one day challenge their hegemony. He was loathe to exterminate them with his thunderbolts, though, because there would be no one to bring the gods offerings.

He solved the problem by putting each creature into a trance and then splitting it down the middle…Upon awakening, each half only dimly remembered what it had been prior to being cleft in two.

Zeus explained to the assembled gods and goddesses the cleverness of his scheme. These creatures would no longer pose a threat to the gods, because they would dissipate their considerable energy by spending the rest of their days searching for their missing halves - Leonard Schlain (recounting Plato’s Symposium account)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1231548


This is an interesting connection...never heard that before.

thumbs
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 11:48 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
When does the Mayan Calendar end? December 21, "2012"...
 Quoting: Al-Ling 1232825


no it doesn't...

10/28/11 instead...
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 12:21 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
Ophiuchus and Capricorn is a 9/11....literally

Haven't you ever heard in Christian church..about the Old Testament? Why do you think the church calls it the Old Testament...because it's taught that the New Testament preceeds it..

It's about Moses/Ophiuchus...LOL They put Moses/Ophiuchus away...
However, there is a group that never put Moses away...
They call their book, the Hebrew Bible...not the Old Testament...LOL

JC is a Capricorn in the Tropical Zodiac which matches the Venus pathway "5 star" symbol..the goat..

JC is a Sagittarius in the Sidereal Zodiac..hint the 4 horseman in Revelation.. The Ancients knew all about the zodiac back then...

"There is nothing new under the sun"..

There will be 4 Taurus Venus Transit passes since the Venus Transit cycle alternate began in Ophiuchus..back in 1631-1639..

Let's look at Sagittarius in the Sidereal Zodiac/December

The Taurus passes are..06-06-1761, 06-03-1769
and 06-08-2004.....The one yet to come is ..
D-Day "2012"

So, Taurus Venus Transit occurred 06-08-2004..and remember the day after X-mas Tsunami in 2004?????
There seems to be some bad blood between June and December..
Like I said, the next one is D-Day "2012" When does the Mayan Calendar end? December 21, "2012"...
 Quoting: Al-Ling 1232825


Ophiuchus is November 29th to December 17th..
Sagittarius is December 18th to January 17th...

The 4 apocalyptic horsemen

There will be 4 Taurus Venus Transit passes since the Venus Transit cycle alternate began in Ophiuchus..back in 1631-1639..

Let's look at Sagittarius in the Sidereal Zodiac/December

The Taurus passes were..06-06-1761, 06-03-1769, 10 million people dies of starvation during those passes..

06-08-2004Remember the day after X-mas Tsunami in December 2004?????.....Sagittarius

The one yet to come is on ..D-Day "2012"
The pale horse..December 2012..

Oscillation between June/Taurus and December/Sagittarius..
The next one is June D-Day "2012"
When does the Mayan Calendar end? December 21, "2012"...
The oscillating flow in the cycle of things..
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 12:35 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
When does the Mayan Calendar end? December 21, "2012"...


no it doesn't...

10/28/11 instead...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1226137


Why do people focus so much on the mayan calendar end...that was a cyclical calendar designed to represent the change point in earths energy...it's not an end of the world designation...its a designation for energy change.

The world isn't ending...but a new energy center will appear on earth...and sure the planet will go through physical changes when this occurs but the WHOLE planet will still exist...and humanity will survive...just like the times before.

We will be dramatically reduced in numbers...but as a whole...humanity will survive...changed.
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 01:21 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
When does the Mayan Calendar end? December 21, "2012"...


no it doesn't...

10/28/11 instead...


Why do people focus so much on the mayan calendar end...that was a cyclical calendar designed to represent the change point in earths energy...it's not an end of the world designation...its a designation for energy change.

The world isn't ending...but a new energy center will appear on earth...and sure the planet will go through physical changes when this occurs but the WHOLE planet will still exist...and humanity will survive...just like the times before.

We will be dramatically reduced in numbers...but as a whole...humanity will survive...changed.
 Quoting: ArunaLuna


I didn't say the world ended... I said that's when it's speculated the Mayan Calendar ends...
I believe the convergence of soooo anniversary dates/events lead to big change in "2012"...

Getting food storage in place is very imporatant!!!
theunknown

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01/17/2011 01:39 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
Lots of great stuff. 1st I would like to ask how the zodiac signs came about in the 1st place? Who connected the stars to creat a bull, fish, scorpion, etc? Was it just someone being creative? And them giving them their own meanings, karma, fate? So the arrow of sagittarius is pointing to ophicious, but who created this appearance? How does zodiacs really play into our lives? If the stars/zodiacs really make these images the someone of greater power had to give them their designs to make certain creatures. Unless its man/alien made satellites that give them their connected designs. I am confused about christianity and this 2012 stuff along with all the ancient alien episodes on the history channel, nostrodermus and even the illuminati. I had just barely fallen asleep last night when egyptian pictures started popping in my head of the 2 egyptians 1 across from the other pointing up at the winged disc. A few days ago my wife told me the zodiacs changed, so I started researching and came across ophicious (SP) and it was a man on a cross with a snake and above the cross a winged disc. I told her that most have known about the 13th zodiac, but it was never used. Then I started reading more about and became curious about the anti-Christ. lol if you want, but none of us are certain about history. I have also been reading into illuminati and the nwo which from certain ppl trace back to Nimrod. Its a lot to get into, so I wont. But between the illuminati, 2012, this ancient alien stuff and religion all have something in common. All Iknow is whatever you believe something big is on its way. Not to mention the birds and fish dying in mass. A bible prophecy? I dunno. I pray for understanding, but am guided in so many directions. Its really scary. Also I would like yall to go to youtube and watch " The NWO 2012 agenda " and for those who aint watch the ancient alien episodes. All great stuff. In closing I would still like someone to answer my questions about zodiacs. And for what it worth Im a pisces thru and thru. Its crazy how it describes me so well
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 02:25 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
Makes you wonder why the number 13 was considered to be bad luck in some arenas....


unlucky....

un lock key....


Whoa!
Excellent Sugar!
I have always liked 13 too... not as much as 9, but I have never feared it in any way


yes....nothing to fear....


pss....it's a secret....13....or psi....

:psi13:


turned 90 degrees:

:psi131:
 Quoting: Sugarelf


How is 13 related to psi?

The Greek letter psi is related to planet Neptune. Isn't Neptune also Enki, who is said to be the pattern for Ophiuchus?

[link to the-red-thread.net]
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 02:32 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
Can someone comment on how this effects the "ages", does this change the current precession that we are experiencing from the age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius. Yes, I understand that the dates of this transition are debatable... but does it knock it out by 1000 years for example?
duFontaine (OP)

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01/17/2011 03:35 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
December 21, 2012 at 11:11 universal time, there will be a precise alignment of our Sun with the Galactic center, Ophiuchus.


Ophiuchus is the only sign that does not have an opposite sign.


I NEED A LINK FOR THIS hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1151630



[link to starseeds.net]
Accept now that all you have seen from the day of your birth on the surface of the earth, to the present, and all that you will meet here are wonderful only because the finite mind of man is confused with fragments of evidence, that, from whatever direction we meet them, spring from an unreachable infinity.
wirelessguru1

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01/17/2011 04:50 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
In other words, the singularity. wink

+1 (Neo)
The Invisible Universe!
Riker

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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
That "power" belonged to all of us at one time. Check this out. Even the buy-bull says the same thing. BOTH male and female made he them and called THEIR name Adam. Originally there was no Adam AND Eve; there was only the Adam (male and female in the same body).

Zeus gathered the gods in council to express his concern that these unusual creatures would one day challenge their hegemony. He was loathe to exterminate them with his thunderbolts, though, because there would be no one to bring the gods offerings.

He solved the problem by putting each creature into a trance and then splitting it down the middle…Upon awakening, each half only dimly remembered what it had been prior to being cleft in two.

Zeus explained to the assembled gods and goddesses the cleverness of his scheme. These creatures would no longer pose a threat to the gods, because they would dissipate their considerable energy by spending the rest of their days searching for their missing halves - Leonard Schlain (recounting Plato’s Symposium account)
 Quoting: 1231548


There is absolutely nothing like this in the Scriptures. Try again.
You shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall set you free.
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Riker

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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
I do not think the Creator needs any worship, sacrifice or ceremony. Simple humility, compassion, and respect towards all Creation.


I totally feel this too. I have this deep knowing that you are right.
 Quoting: Strawberry



Micah 6

6 How shall I come before Yahweh, and bow myself before the exalted God? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old?

7 Will Yahweh be pleased with thousands of rams? With tens of thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my disobedience? The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

8 He has shown you, O man, what is good. What does Yahweh require of you, but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?
You shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall set you free.
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rikerglp (at) gmail.com
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Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 07:00 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
Leonard Schlain (recounting Plato’s Symposium account)


There is absolutely nothing like this in the Scriptures. Try again.
 Quoting: Riker


You may have overlooked the reference there...I don't think it was intended to be referenced as coming from scriptures...
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 07:14 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
December 21, 2012 at 11:11 universal time, there will be a precise alignment of our Sun with the Galactic center, Ophiuchus.


Ophiuchus is the only sign that does not have an opposite sign.


I NEED A LINK FOR THIS hf



[link to starseeds.net]
 Quoting: duFontaine


thanks but i'm not seeing this:
December 21, 2012 at 11:11 universal time, there will be a precise alignment of our Sun with the Galactic center, Ophiuchus.
do you have another link?
Least Servant

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01/17/2011 09:16 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
December 21, 2012 at 11:11 universal time, there will be a precise alignment of our Sun with the Galactic center, Ophiuchus.


Ophiuchus is the only sign that does not have an opposite sign.


I NEED A LINK FOR THIS hf



[link to starseeds.net]


thanks but i'm not seeing this:
December 21, 2012 at 11:11 universal time, there will be a precise alignment of our Sun with the Galactic center, Ophiuchus.
do you have another link?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1151630


It's wrong anyway.

12/21/2010 is the date you are looking for.
:romaflag:
Not enough to fight, too many to die.
theunknown

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01/17/2011 09:37 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
Lots of great stuff. 1st I would like to ask how the zodiac signs came about in the 1st place? Who connected the stars to creat a bull, fish, scorpion, etc? Was it just someone being creative? And them giving them their own meanings, karma, fate? So the arrow of sagittarius is pointing to ophicious, but who created this appearance? How does zodiacs really play into our lives? If the stars/zodiacs really make these images the someone of greater power had to give them their designs to make certain creatures. Unless its man/alien made satellites that give them their connected designs. I am confused about christianity and this 2012 stuff along with all the ancient alien episodes on the history channel, nostrodermus and even the illuminati. I had just barely fallen asleep last night when egyptian pictures started popping in my head of the 2 egyptians 1 across from the other pointing up at the winged disc. A few days ago my wife told me the zodiacs changed, so I started researching and came across ophicious (SP) and it was a man on a cross with a snake and above the cross a winged disc. I told her that most have known about the 13th zodiac, but it was never used. Then I started reading more about and became curious about the anti-Christ. lol if you want, but none of us are certain about history. I have also been reading into illuminati and the nwo which from certain ppl trace back to Nimrod. Its a lot to get into, so I wont. But between the illuminati, 2012, this ancient alien stuff and religion all have something in common. All Iknow is whatever you believe something big is on its way. Not to mention the birds and fish dying in mass. A bible prophecy? I dunno. I pray for understanding, but am guided in so many directions. Its really scary. Also I would like yall to go to youtube and watch " The NWO 2012 agenda " and for those who aint watch the ancient alien episodes. All great stuff. In closing I would still like someone to answer my questions about zodiacs. And for what it worth Im a pisces thru and thru. Its crazy how it describes me so well
 Quoting: theunknown


Anyone?
sundaymorning

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01/17/2011 10:51 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
i have been studying serpent worship and the serpent people for about a year now. i am convinced there was a concerted vendetta by the Son/Sun people to destroy their influence. When they talk about St. Patrick driving the snakes out of Ireland, they weren't the ones that crawl on the ground. The snake in the garden of Eden had two legs and he did Adam and Eve a favor. He freed them from mindless slavery.
Least Servant

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01/17/2011 10:59 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
spock
:romaflag:
Not enough to fight, too many to die.
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2011 11:06 PM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
Fritz Springmeier, 13 Bloodlines of the Illuminati

The Astor Bloodline

The Bundy Bloodline

The Collins Bloodline

The DuPont Bloodline

The Freeman Bloodline

The Kennedy Bloodline

The Li Bloodline

The Onassis Bloodline

The Reynolds Bloodline

The Rockefeller Bloodline

The Rothschild Bloodline

The Russell Bloodline

The Van Duyn Bloodline





Is each bloodline ascribed to a particular constellation from the Torpical Zodiac? Perhaps the 13th Bloodline is ready to be unveiled? [link to www.bibliotecapleyades.net]
 Quoting: duFontaine

Try these: (in no particular order)

Maximus

Farnese

Colonna

Pallavicini

Aldobrandini

Medici

Cybo

Breakspear

Cerrato

Somaglia

Casanova

Este Estence

Crystobal


:)
duFontaine (OP)

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01/18/2011 12:11 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
December 21, 2012 at 11:11 universal time, there will be a precise alignment of our Sun with the Galactic center, Ophiuchus.


Ophiuchus is the only sign that does not have an opposite sign.


I NEED A LINK FOR THIS hf



[link to starseeds.net]


thanks but i'm not seeing this:
December 21, 2012 at 11:11 universal time, there will be a precise alignment of our Sun with the Galactic center, Ophiuchus.
do you have another link?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1151630



Sorry for the wrong link. Here is one from the US Navy. And YES they changed it from 11:11 to 11:12. Everytime I have checked, it has ALWAYS been at 11:11 and now the website has CHANGED to 11:12?
[link to aa.usno.navy.mil]
Accept now that all you have seen from the day of your birth on the surface of the earth, to the present, and all that you will meet here are wonderful only because the finite mind of man is confused with fragments of evidence, that, from whatever direction we meet them, spring from an unreachable infinity.
wirelessguru1

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01/18/2011 12:25 AM
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Re: The Innitiation of Ophiuchus (13th Zodiac) and the introduction into mass conciousness by MSM - 2012
Sorry for the wrong link. Here is one from the US Navy. And YES they changed it from 11:11 to 11:12. Everytime I have checked, it has ALWAYS been at 11:11 and now the website has CHANGED to 11:12?
[link to aa.usno.navy.mil]
 Quoting: duFontaine


Yes, they changed it to 11:12 to desperately try to disconnect the 11:11 digital clock synchronization beacon from the overall age/era re-cycling process... wink
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