Popul Vuh....Mayan or Hebrew Exodus (Red Sea crossing included)?

Ist. The story of the creation is not the same.
2nd. Their gods are not the same.
3rd. Nahualt is Aztec language. Nothing to do with Mayan.
4th. It is like the bible. Anybody can make is own understanding of it. and
5th. You should go in Mexico and make museum tour.
6th. Use the spanish version of the Popul Vuh.

Hebrew was not the first people on earth. And indian peoples have nothing, nothing to do with hebrew not even the same race. This is idioties writed by peoples who need attention. Talk about something you know about and not what other as writed.

1)First you need to learn English.
2) I never said the story is exactly the same. I am even writing some of the differences.
3) I never said the gods are the same. Even Hebrew account of the Bible does have some differences as it's well known.
4)If it's like the Bible and anyone can make own understanding, I can't be called idiot because I want to understand it.
5) Just as narrow-minded attitude would be checking the Bible which was written in Hebrew and Greek, it would be stupid ignoring the importance of the original language. For the same reason we can't just depend on Spanish translations. I read it in Spanish too.
6) Yes, besides being in Egypt, Panama, Peru, Paraguay, Argentina, Chile, Canada, USA, Bolivia and currently living in Brazil, it's my intention to go to India, Mexico and perhaps Russia.
7) Indeed Nahuatl is not the same as Mayan. I'm so aware of this that not even experts know for sure what's the origin of Mayan language! If they don't know, why would I have to believe an amateur like yourself who's not even capable to write English?

Do you want to discuss this in Spanish?

No hay problema, amiguita neurótica. Y si quieres enfadarte, pues ándale, ándale que no le tengo asco a la discusión y mientras más errores cometas, más me sentiré a gusto respondiéndote.

Where on earth did I say Hebrews were the first people on earth?

Existe un sonido gutural hebreo (que imagino existe en quechua) que no hay en español ni portugués o inglés. Es el sonido de la K seguido de la J español o KJ (como en portugués empujar se escribe “empurrar” y se pronuncia igual, sabemos que la J española equivale a la RR en portugués, entonces ese sonido de KJ castellano imitando el hebreo, se transcribiría como KRR en portugués!). Pues bien ese nombre mal traducido como Chivím sería realmente KJAWERN (parece con “caja” no es verdad?) en hebreo o más exacto KJVIM. Qué significa? Caverna, cueva, moradores de cavernas o trogloditas. Pues bien, ese nombre traducido en maya como Chivim Tulán es la tierra de las 7 cavernas. No es un lugar mítico sino la REAL PALESTINA que ya dije se llama también K’ana (Canaán). Está en la frontera el territorio de los antiguos babilonios donde habían trogloditas en Petra, etc. De hecho 1 Samuel 13: 6, 1 Reyes 18:4, Jueces 6:2, Génesis 19:30, Josué 10:16 nos hablan de esas cavernas donde los israelitas se escondían. La Tierra de los hivitas o descendientes de Canaán que hablan lengua semita. Ver Éxodo 3: 17. Esas cavernas gigantes se hallan cerca de Lakish.

There's a gutural Hebrew sound which is like K followed by H (in English sound), the so-called Chivim Tulan is related to the caves in Palestine, 1 Samuel 13:6; 1 Kings 18:4; Judges 6:2; Genesis 19:30; Joshua 10:16; Exodus 3:17. Giant caves near Laquish/ Lakish.

Chivim-Tulán "the land of 7 caves, or ravines". In Hebrew "khweh"=crevice in the earth (James Strong's Hebrew Lexicon, 2337) and "khaw-rawn"=cavern or cave (2362). Phonetic in Hebrew "Khawern" meaning cavern, cave dwellers, troglodites.

My spanish is as bad as my english but if you can discust in french it will be OK.

I pass 7 years in Mexico, learning from the Nahualt in Teotihuacan. I have also visited Tenochtitlan, Chichen Itza, Tulum and Palenque. I met some Ma'pah indian from Chiapas and Guerrero. And nowhere I saw a relation with Hebrew. They beleive they are coming from the north west more from Asia during the last ice age. So who said the truth??? Them or a bunch of scientific (????) who try to make their own history. Are chiness hebrew?????

Oh, and about language. In the begining peoples was talking the same language before the babel tower. That what the bible said. So is it possible that the similiarity come from there. Oh and excuse my english. Y no me molesta.

Maya WERE NOT Shemitic people, bur rather a Hametic one (read KHametic), they SPOKE a Shemitic language, because their progenitors, the Carthaginian/Phoenicians did so. The Quiché-Maya are the direct descendants of the Hivites (read Khwym). That they are the same family, read the discussion of Carthaginian naval power and of the many cultural similarities between the Maya and them in Discovery of Ancient America. The Maya asimilated the historic record of their white-faced "Sacorowach" Tolteca/Hebrew overlords -which record is very similar to Hebrew account- is abundantly clear from their histories.
Mayanologists think Mayan histories took place on their side of the Ocean because they are the first to deny the internal data claimed to be true, within the histories themselves. I put the examples of the clear images of elephants "interpreted" as parrots, macaws, butterflies, rattlesnakes, bats except what they are!

Tolteca was a negroid race. Look at their sculpture.

Oh and don't forget to look at the stele of the astronaut from Palenque and by the way Aztec old name was Aztlan. I beleive that they are more from Atlantid then middle-east.

Of course not! In order to do that Mayan experts would have to know the Hebrew account first!
Please do check the links I set in Spanish in which the Mexican government admits some things tourist guides are unaware in many cases. That itself is not surprising because at Jalapa museum they HID an elephant toy which was triggering uncomfortable questions. In Peru the work of English investigators regarding Inca scripture is still hidden in spite of the fact the guy studied 30 years in that country. You need to understand nations have to protect the "indigenismo" paradigma. You won't listen Mayan experts trying to explain why the basis of Teotihuacan pyramid almost matches exactly the meausurement of the Great Pyramid in Egypt. You won't find them explaining why the similarity of the 43.5 angle degrees in both cultures rather than easier 45 degrees or why mica from Brazil hidden in Sun Pyramid. It's uncomfortable. In France , Italy and Brazil you'll read the father of aviation was really Santos Dumont but you won't read that in USA talking endlessly about Wright brothers! They have to defend "natioanlism", 'patriotism'.

Answering your question if there are Hebrew Chinese, yes there are some and if you want to know about them I 'll tell you.

I don't speak French but anyway...
In 1861 the Popul Vuh, Le livre Sacre, was published in Paris, divided into chapters and phonetized according to Brasseur de Bourbourg's ideas, in order to facilitate its reading by the people of his country (France). According to these ideas, the Abbe (de Bourbourg) introduced the letter K which does not exist in the original, and replaced it dor the C and the Q which Ximenez used in transcribing the Quiché manuscript. On the other hand he kept the V which was used in the Colonial Period to represent the sound of U as in the words varal (uaral) and vinac (uinac), etc. Popul Vuh, Recinos, pp.55-56.

I mentioned the Civan Zivan Chiuam. Zivan is a bit of a phonetic stretch, "c" and "z" are sometimes confused particularly in Abbe, Brasseur de Bourbourg's language, French (do you zee what I mean?).

You meant Olmecs probably:
[link to www.honestinformation.com]

Meso America was a land receiving many races. I never denied that. There are even similarities too deep related to Chinese civilization as well.

An interesting work was made by Maurice Cotterell author:
[link to www.mauricecotterell.com]
In 1992 he was awarded "Voluntariado Cultural" in Mexico by his important contribution to Mexican culture. We have had important chat during many years.

Could you see the math code 144000 on the forehead?
Also:
[link to www.mauricecotterell.com]

When I was in Teotihuacan I meet a guide who show us the Mica layer. It was the 5th stage out of 7th. I saw it. He told me that all the city was covered with it. Not only the pyramide. I saw the layer on a house not pyramid. They dated the last layer not the first one. Who knows when they were built. I figure before the deluge. Do you know about Pangé the first continent. Is it possible that in that time all the people have the similar technologie. World existed before the bible.

[link to www.mauricecotterell.com]
[link to www.mauricecotterell.com]
[link to www.mauricecotterell.com]

The Bible in Hebrew is completely different and the 4th man Enoch/Enoc/Enosh has been interpreted as the 4th mankind. In Genesis Enoch is related with the number 365 which is a calendar. Enoch was Cain's son who built a city akin to Meso American architecture. T-Enoch-Titlan could mean city of Enoch just like in Egypt Pe-Hanock was House of Enoch/Enosh.
Pangea, Lemuria=Mu, Atlantis, etc is a long topic different from what I'm trying to explain here.

Tenoch was the god of war. Asking for blood. Is it the same then Enoch.

I'll return later on...

Same for me. With more of it. Ask for Maryjane of earth when ready.

You are chatting with me though in the beginning you were angry and treated me like an idiot. That means once the shock passes by, it’s possible to admit new ideas if we have a little patience and sharp the ears.

In Hebrew to know is "yadha" meaning sexual intercourse. That's why Genesis account details everytime there was a "knowing" a baby boy was born. Even Adam is said to know his wife "again" which is not like saying "glad to meet you again, darling".The book of Jubilees declares (Sitchin himself explains this in The Lost Realms) Cain married his sister called Awan. Genesis mentions Adam was the father both of sons and daughters.

That means Cain had sex with his sister somewhere else and not that he found different people in other side of the world like some Christians and other people from the past repeated over and over ignoring Hebrew. Genesis mentions a mark but NOWHERE says it was on the forehead. Maybe you saw John Huston's film The Bible... in the beginning , Cain played by Richard Harris.

Sitchin thought the mark had to do with absence of hair because he imagined Cain race maybe related to indians.

Why do you think Adam said when Eve was "formed" (not created being barah in Hebrew) AT LAST, FINALLY (it took a loooooooooooong time) THIS IS FLESH OF MY FLESH AND BONE OF MY BONES. Because prior to that he was having fun with other sort of flesh.

Rhesus monkey & human mind comparison:

[link to www.sciencedaily.com]

Rhesus monkey peripheral BLOOD polymorphonuclear leucocytes (PMNL) show phagocytic and killing activity for streptococcus MUTANS comparable to human PMNL.

[link to la.rsmjournals.com]

Adam's very name is related to blood.

Now, I read the rib can be extracted and grows again (like lizard's tail) if the periostium is not removed. If Eve was Adam's own flesh & bone, what is she to him? GENETIC INCEST. Specially taking into consideration the regenerative power of the ribs (also with important connections with the spine). What is inside ribs and bones? Marrow. That's why when patients do have leukemia need marrow transplant from a doner who is a RELATIVE in order to dodge any possible reaction.

The periosteum (the literal meaning of this word is ‘around the bone’) is a membrane that covers every bone — it’s the reason you can get things stuck between your teeth while gnawing on a leg of lamb, for instance. The periosteum contains cells that can manufacture new bone. Particularly in young people, ‘rib periosteum has a remarkable ability to regenerate bone, perhaps more so than any other bone’. Now it doesn't mean the whole rib can grow the same size but I'm interested about CELLS and BLOOD issue.

That would be the case if we're dealing with an isolated myth. The question remains "why would other civilizations which have nothing to borrow from Christians or Jews, like Chinese, do register the same thing unless there's certian truth in the so-called myth?"

[link to fotolog.terra.com.mx]

Why would Greeks have to copy a similar idea telling them about Pandora made of clay and coveting something that unleashed hell?

NASA discovered a link between humid clay and RNA:
[link to rpi.edu]


In the Quiché account (on the other hand) men were climbing down the tree, the loincloths of the two twin brothers changed into tails, hence leading them to become into monkeys, Howler Monkey and the Spider Monkey. That’s involution or evolution backward.

The story about the man was created out of MAIZE or CORN.

The corn genome is a hodgepodge of some 32,000 genes crammed into just 10 chromosomes. In comparison, humans have 20,000 genes dispersed among 23 chromosomes. Maize resulted from an allotetraploidization event some 11.4 million years ago from two closely related progenitors 9. The result is a genome that nearly doubled in gene content. A fundamental difference between plants and humans might be that although the gene content of plants can be much higher, the number of protein products is much lower compared with humans. Maize has insertions that push genes further apart than in sorghum.

Mayans depicted DNA:

[link to fotolog.terra.com]

My thought is we can find part of the truth in different places, we outta put the pieces together like a huge jigsaw puzzle.

Maybe the Mayans knew other additional details and the "myth" is telling us the plural gods used TWIN DNA DOUBLE SNAKE of different species of apes and mixed that with genes from the corn or a virus, whatever, and mixed that with the blood of the gods to "form" (not create ex nihilo) something new. Who knows for sure? It's a possibility.

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President Chester Arthur took his official oath 18,980 days after he was born....

Pres. C. Arthur served for 42 mo. as predicted by REVELATION! Both he and OBAMA were British citizens at birth! (Guess what’s next)


Thread: Pres. C. Arthur served for 42 mo. as predicted by REVELATION! Both he and OBAMA were British citizens at birth! (Guess what’s next)





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Sorry, pal. Wrong topic.

Headlined news : MAYBE WE CAME FROM CLAY AFTER ALL, it reported (to quote the MSNBC News version) from Washington DC on October 23, 2003 that
Science backed up religion Thursday in a study that suggests life may have indeed sprung from clay -- just as many faiths teach.
A team at Howard Hughes Medical Institute and Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston said they had shown that materials in clay supported processes similar to those that may have given rise to life.
Specifically, a clay mixture called montmorillonite not only helps form little bags of fat and liquid, but helps cells use genetic material called RNA; that, in turn, is one of the key processes of life.

[link to www.sitchin.com]

[link to www.sitchin.com]

[link to www.sitchin.com]

So 18,980 didn't mean anything to you?





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Why would creators used other material that the one on our planet. Man is created from differente chemical, Iron, magnesium, salt, etc and of 80% of water. Like our mother earth. Why try to debunk it. We are one with this planet. This is why all the creation histories, Hindu, chiness, egyptian, christian, etc, are related. But saying that the hebrew are the first creation. I don't buy it. Who was Adam and who was Eve?? And where the life happen first??? research are not done yet and we can have a lot of surprise in the futur so why pretend something that we are not sure about. Because it is writed in the bible?????

and because some scientific said so????

I'm not saying Hebrew account is the first. That's why I put some links related to Sumerian and that's why I'm also talking about Mayan's view. I am not debunking anything. Inorganic material is found in Earth's dust.
Well, I think that's about it. I won't add anything more.

cherokee israel connection

Missouri Cherokee Tribes proclaim Jewish Heritage - Israel Insider 11 posts - 3 authors - Last post: 23 Dec 2008
Here you will find a series of pages about the connection between our Cherokee Heritage and the Nation of Israel. ...
[link to israelinsider.net]

Cherokee-Israel Connection | Facebook20 Jan 2010 ... We discovered that the Cherokee, along with many other eastern tribes, are descended from the Hebrews. Cherokee-Israel Connection: ... [link to www.facebook.com]

Jubilee Stone found in Tennessee:

[link to www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org]

700 ft. wall bearing ancient Jewish inscriptions:

[link to www.hurdcreations.com]
[link to www.hurdcreations.com]
[link to www.hurdcreations.com]
[link to www.hurdcreations.com]

The Los Lunas Decalogue Stone:
Stone found near Los Lunas, New Mexico with abridged version of the Decalogue or Ten Commandments
[link to www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org]
[link to www.cherokeeoflawrencecountytn.org]

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Also we see glimpses of the inverted evolution in Arabian Muslim story and Hindu.Backward evolution: from men to apes:

Investigations into the origins of HIV has led to a conclusion that HIV is a descendant of a Simian Immunodeficiency Virus. Simian viruses (SIVs) are primate lentiviruses that cause acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AlDS)-like illnesses. The two types of HIV, HIV-1 and HIV-2 resembles closely to certain strains of SIVs. Though the virus is harmless to the monkey species that harbors it, it proves fatal to humans.

HIV-2 corresponds to an SIV strain found in the sooty mangabey (also known as the green monkey), which is indigenous to western Africa. HIV-2 virus is believed to simply come through the butchering and consumption of monkey meat. In Congo, you can easily buy either a monkey head, tail, arm or limb in the markets for only 300 Congo francs. A whole monkey sells at 2000 francs. Despite the animal’s reputation for being scavengers and carriers of disease. Leviticus 11:27-28: “Of the various quadrupeds, all those that walk on paws are unclean for you; unteveryone who touches their dead bodies shall be unclean until evening, and everyone who picks up their dead bodies shall wash his garments and be unclean until evening. Such is their uncleanness for you.”

The closest counterpart for HIV-1 is SIVcpz, the SIV found in chimpanzees. In a frozen sample of a sub-group of chimpanzees known as Pan troglodytes, a sub-group once common in west-central Africa, researches found 2 different viruses that traced back to a SIV that infected other monkey species, the red-capped mangabeys and the greater spot-nosed monkeys. Researches believe the hybridization to a third virus took place inside these infected chimps after they hunted and killed the two smaller species of monkey with each a "viral sex".

Not only can SIV cross from ape to ape, the virus can cross too the species barrier from monkey to man. Such viral transfer between animals and humans is known as zoonosis.

Sex between human and monkeys is more hazardous than consumption. June Osborne once said to the US AIDS commission, "AIDS came about, initially, as punishment for the sin of bestiality between man and monkeys." It took years of research before Marco Lisanti became the first safari guide to admit that monkey sex for experimental vacationers is one of the most popular activities in travel brochures. The most popular guess for the first transfer of HIV to humans is thus Africa. Besides, monkeys from Asia and South America have never been found with SIVs.

Vedic scriptures cite that monkeys origin from the unions between early mindless humans and primitive mammals tens of millions of years ago. The result was a variety of semi-human beings with more or less apelike traits. Vedic scriptures describe these beings as "apes" that resembled humans much more than our present anthropoid apes. Most scholars suggest the Vedas to date between the range of 1200 and 1400 BCE but Hindus believe the ideas expressed in the Vedas had actually been in circulation for a long time before their codification and compilation.

The Vedas also holds that human beings did not descend from ape ancestors. Instead, humanity forms the main stock from which all beings are derived. One can ascertain what purposes served by fowls, sheep and even small creatures like insects, but what do such omnivorous quadrupeds do for the world? Were there monkeys in the time of Adam? Or did the first monkeys origin upon “backward evolution”? After the first man multiplied into tribes, some tribes break God’s commandments and became cursed to be the first apes. Or could those early humans have lived in such shame till they contract a disease that turned them into apes? Did the spawn of more varieties of apes and monkeys derive from the first ape tribe?

[Quran 5:60] Say, "Let me tell you who are worse in the sight of GOD: those who are condemned by GOD after incurring His wrath until He made them (as despicable as) monkeys and pigs, and the idol worshipers. These are far worse, and farther from the right path."[Quran 2:65] You have known about those among you who desecrated the Sabbath. We said to them, "Be you as despicable as apes."[Quran 7:166] When they continued to defy the commandments, we said to them, "Be you despicable apes."What commandments did those humans (who were cursed to become apes) break? Was God angered by the cross-marriage between human and ape? Was it the sanctity of marriages that humans break? Or were the humans practicing free sex like apes? Many a past communities have been known for that.

Hindus believe “backward" evolution is the process of humans heading backwards in the evolution of consciousness because they only use their intelligence for facilitating the animal propensities in an advanced, scientific way instead of using it to advance spiritually. They also believe in reincarnation and that humans who misuse their God-given intelligence would go backwards on the evolutionary path and will find themselves in the bodies of monkeys in their next lives. To be reincarnated in a monkey’s body (instead of a human body) is not the best thing.

If such apes were former humans, eating monkeys could surely bring about the same health effects as cannibalism. In an April 2003’s edition of National Geographic News, John Roach wrote that modern humans carry a gene that evolved as protection against brain diseases that can be spread by eating human flesh. This gene protect humans from prion diseases, such as brain diseases characterized by loss of coordination, dementia, paralysis, and eventually death. Modern examples include kuru and Creutzfeld Jacob disease in humans, and mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy, in animals.

The idea that evolution can run backward isn’t new; some scientists say there have been confirmed cases of it in animals. Reverse evolution would happen when organisms lose genes that had fallen into disuse. Much like fish that take up living in dark caves can mostly lose their eyes, since they don’t need them. Human DNA can lose its vitality too by developing genetic disorders.

Uner Tan of Cukurova University Medical School in Adana discovered a mutation in one Turkish family. He named the condition after himself: Unertan syndrome. He mapped the defect to a region of the genome called chromosome 17p, a site of some of the biggest genetic differences between humans and chimps. Other researchers have also recently linked bipedalism to 17p.

In the journal Neuroquantology, he wrote “The children exhibiting this syndrome originated from a family having 19 children.” Five of these, aged 14 to 32 years, “walked on two palms and two feet, with extended legs… They could stand up, but only for a short time, with flexed knees and heads.” “The patients had a rather primitive language... they spoke to each other using their own language, using only a few hundred words” which the parents could partly understand. “They were unaware of year, season, day, and time. Otherwise, they had quite strong legs and arms. The sitting posture was rather similar to an ape. They could walk fairly fast using their strong legs, without any imbalances.”

In a March issue of the International Journal of Neuroscience he said that this Turkish family represents “possible backward evolution,” and as such, it “can be considered a live model for human evolution”. He also posted an online video clip of an affected woman walking on all fours, her face blurred.

While there is overwhelming evidence of organisms losing genes that had fallen into disuse, the hominid theory of man’s descent from apes still prevails. In 1871, Charles Darwin attempted to explain that humans descent from a "hominid" line that diverged from a line of African apes just a few million years ago. He believed organisms evolved by a theory of random variation and natural selection. In 1809, French scientist Jean Baptiste de Lamarck proposed that humans evolve through "the inheritance of acquired characteristics." Both ideas were very much similar to the ideas of the evolutionary descent of man from animal by ancient Greek philosophers such as Anaximander. These ideas are based on the concept that complex creatures evolve from more simplistic ancestors naturally over time.

Interesting to note though is that evidence to support the hominid theory are mostly based on skeletal evidence. And day by day, more skeletal frauds for the Homo Erectus are unraveled. For example in 1953, the Piltdown man (Eoanthropus Dawsoni) was exposed to have been put together by using pieces of human skull cap and the jaw of a chimpanzee.

The teeth had been filed down and chemicals had been used to "age" the bones. In 1927, the jaw-bone of the Nebraska man (Hesperopithecus Haroldcookii) was exposed to have come from an extinct pig. All fossil evidence of the Peking man (Sinanthropus Pekinensis) was reportedly lost in 1941. In 1937, the Java man (Pithecanthropus) was exposed as just that of an extinct gibbon-like ape.

If at all humans were once apes, why don’t we carry down the SIV with us from the day we were born? And even if one day comes stronger evidence of the hominid ancestry, where then would a living, self-reproducing organism come from in the first place? Creationism or creation theology is the belief that humans, life, the earth and the universe were created by a supreme being or supernatural intervention.
[Quran 6:98] He initiated you from one person, and decided your path, as well as your final destiny. We thus clarify the revelations for people who understand.

[Quran 15:26] We created the human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay.

Relatively speaking, primate bones are much thicker and heavier than human bones. Primate muscles are 5 to 10 times stronger than ours. Could their stronger bones take far longer to disintegrate than the bones of the humans living in the same time? Or perhaps, being the more robust than humans, ape communities lived in a different environment and thus die in a different soil too where their bones would disintegrate much slower? Or are these ape bones simply preserved by God to serve as a lesson for future generations? If the apes were formerly humans, would they have lived together with humans? Would a burial ground of ape bones be the same location as one for human bones?
[Quran 10:92] "Today, we will preserve your body, to set you up as a lesson for future generations." Unfortunately, many people are totally oblivious to our signs.