RE: Homosexuals can Change? - thoughts from the inside

Not at all. My posts were in reference to the inability of people in the gay and lesbian community to admit that being gay just might be a choice... and that if someone changes then they weren't gay in the first place.

I'm not saying that you are or aren't gay and I clearly said I'm not the judge of your life. I'm just saying that people get very defensive and upset and usually refuse to even consider that being gay just might be a choice.... which your post illustrated very poignantly.

I mean, if it's so great to be gay, then why does it have to be innate? Why is it so important that we be helpless in the matter? Think on that, seriously.

If you want to have a conversation, I'm up for it, but if you keep getting sarcastic that'll be the end of it.

Thank you!

LOL

Yeah, wasn't really interested in a conversation as such, I just read your post and had a wtf moment.

Perhaps it's because i've purposely avoided the type of people who think they 'belong' to something, that I don't get where you're coming from.

As far as religion is concerned, I see the same denial of Christianity amongst many heterosexuals. In fact most people who find being being told who they are and what they are, is wrong, or a sin, doesn't matter if it's because you're gay or you're just a straight person wanting think or believe in a certain way.

I know three gay people and all they all go to a Christian church, so I couldn't relate to what you said. I can however relate to young people in general who are anti-dogmatic anything, especially when it interferes with what they want.

I don't consider myself as having a choice who I am attracted to. So I find odd that people tell me that I do indeed have a choice. If you or someone else does, great, it doesn't bother me which side of the fence you end up on as long as you're happy and at peace with yourself. But it seems simple enough to me that people who find both sexes attractive, to be bisexual.

If one is truly "gay", it is not a choice, it is not a preference, it is innate. If one is truly "straight", then it is not a choice, it is not a preference, it is innate.

I could post a thread about the heterosexual community, espousing the same thing about them. Why can't they stand the idea that their heterosexuality is a choice? Or that homosexuality is not a choice?

Are you saying that you're a lesbian, but feel that you chose to be a lesbian? Are you saying that you WERE a lesbian, but you're no longer a lesbian, but you're hanging around the GLBT community and arguing that you changed and they can change too? I don't know why you're saying that homosexuals don't talk about faith or God. There are many homosexual christian churches.

You said that you've been "in the gay world" for more than 12 years, but I think in another post you said that you have been searching for a man for 20 years.

WOAH!!!! hahahahha!!!! You have me confused with someone else!!! I'm only 30, I certainly haven't been looking for a man for 20 years lol! That might explain some of your confusion.

Your first paragraph in this most recent response is what I'm talking about - and I'm not being an ass, I promise. I wish we could talk about it face to face so you can look at me and hear my tone of voice and know that I am sincere. But this first paragraph is EXACTLY the idea that I'm challenging. I believed that for over a decade about myself, hook line and sinker. I'm daring you to challenge that idea, if only just for the sake of solidifying your opinion one way or the other. If it is true, then it will stand up to scrutiny anyway. I dare you to play devil's advocate and challenge this idea.

I am saying that I have identified thoroughly as a lesbian for 12+ years and this year I have begun to question the line that we are fed about it not being a choice, it being completely ok and healthy, along with discovering more about the greatest conspiracy on Earth - that being the one about the Truth around God and "religion". not that it's anyone's business, but I've never been with a man and didn't want to be. I haven't dated a man in over 12 years. I have dated and been with a lot of women in that time. I've been an activist, very active in the community, a bartender in a gay bar for several years, and in August 2006 my partner and I were married (civil union).

We love each other very much and have had quite a handful of emotion and challenges and difficulty this year figuring everything out but as we truly love each other finding the Truth is important. If we have been lied to (and I believe that we have) we both want to know about it.

So please, don't tell me that if I was really gay, I couldn't change. Please don't. It's ridiculous. If anyone is gay, it would be me.

"Born that way" is a lie. I have come to believe this very strongly. It's convincing, but it's not Truth. We are men and women who are in full control of ourselves. We are not held hostage by our genes and we are more than the sum of our past experiences. We are not helpless victims of our every idea and whim.

And where did you get the idea that I'm hanging around my friends preaching? I said earlier that I haven't breathed a word of it to my friends because I know a lot of them would reject me no matter how humbly and non-intrusively I told them what was going on in my life.

I didn't say homosexuals don't talk about faith... I said if the faith doesn't challenge the idea that we were "born that way" it's ok, but anything that challenges the golden precept that we don't have a choice is viewed with extreme contempt.

Thanks Tx.

Ah ok. :-) Yes you're right - people in general certainly do not want to hear that they are wrong about anything, especially how they are living their lives.

I know gay people who claim to be Christian, mostly older ones, but my question is then how do you know that ANY of the Bible is true when you reject part of what it says? If the Bible is Truth, then homosexuality is wrong. Period. You know? Doesn't make sense to me. And the anti-Christians that I know - the majority - are of all ages, not just young ones. Maybe it's our locations.

I completely understand how foreign the idea that YOU, AC, YOU YOURSELF have a choice about whether or not you are gay. It was foreign to me too and I hated anything that challenged that idea... just as my subculture did.... but give it a think. If it is true, it can stand the scrutiny.

Regarding me being bisexual - please see my other recent response. :-)

great post OP, youve given us all (straight or gay) something to meditate on

Oh ouch. I'm sorry man.

I'm pretty bi and I've experimented with gay sex a couple at a couple of times in my life, but I've found great satisfaction in relationships with women.

I really don't feel the intolerance from either community that Riker is talking about. The women in my school accept me in skinny jeans, heels, and tops that reveal my she-male tits, and the people at the gay bars accept me with my fruit fly girlfriend.

The younger straight bars are cool with us too.

I don't what things are like south of the Medicine Line but here in Redneck Alberta, people are pretty tolerant.

People should be honest with themselves first, practice deep self-examination to understand what motivates their sexuality and feel free to express themselves honestly.

Thank you.

The saddest truth of all:

Straight, Homo, Bi- you were all sold the same lie: Love.

Can anyone 'prove' love?

Is love, like depression, just a bag of random emotions and feelings and reactions thrown into a mix and called 'love' just for the sake of it?

Or does love create certain emotions, feelings and actions - if so, like what?


I don't believe in HATE - I realised that HATE is a learned IDEA and not a REAL FEELING.

You can't 'hate' something - you just may have strong opinions to the opposite of what something is.



If HATE is not real - then LOVE is in the same boat.


Makes life easier once you realise that LOVE & HATE were and still are the BIGGEST LIES ever told.


If love is real, then somebody prove me?

Seems to just be a mix of paternal instincts, pack defense, feeling of safety and 'acceptance' and being 'needed' and so on, so forth.

I think Love needs to be learned and realised like Shakespeare, but left as an IDEA or LIFESTYLE CHOICE and NOT USED to base life decisions on.



You can kill more cruelly with love than you EVER can with hate.

Well if it's true that homosexuality is a sin, and it appears to say that in most translations, then where does that leave me in comparison to anyone else? I don't reject what it says, I don't understand it, and have faith that it means more than what my own understanding of it, is.

I don't it is as important to me as it used to be, to need to know if i'm right as who I am. In the end it is for God to decide. I have no illusions of being anything other than who I am in this moment. I know it's not a great answer but i'd rather be who I am, and be honest about it with myself and God, than think I am somehow less of a sinner or more pleasing in Gods eyes by being who i'm not.

This whole choice thing. I read your other post and hey if happened to you then I guess it must be possible. Going by my own experience, I can't choose an attraction, it chooses me. I'd probably accept that people can change. But reject that people have control over when and how it happens, which is what I get from people who say I chose to be who I am. It's silly, it's like a blind person trying to tell me the sky is green.

Let me ask you a question though if I may Riker. If you were God, would you give someone attractions towards a person or group of people, only to tell them they couldn't act on any of it at all for any reason? Does that really make sense to you?

Forget about what the Bible may say for a minute here, and let's debate this strictly on logic. Why would a loving God give someone attractions and yet not allow them to do anything about it? Isn't that a bit cruel? He doesn't do that for heterosexuals, so why would he do it for homosexuals? Think about that.

In terms of being lied to and what not, I have come to think more than anything we have been lied to about who God is, and what God actually thinks, and it's used especially with topics like this to divide the people when we really don't have to be divided. You know what I mean?

Last Edited by ajk on 01/23/2011 02:00 PM

This whole show tripped me out.








Last Edited by Eyeseeall on 01/23/2011 02:02 PM

This is a terrific, heartfelt, honest thread, OP. Kudos again.