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DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 06:37 PM
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DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
Here is a Google-Translated article from a German blog saying Chinese agents might have collected F-117 wreckage in 1999 in Serbia when it was shot down.

Chinese stealth technology came from the Americans

n 11 January completed the first Chinese fighter jet with stealth technology its maiden flight and was presented to the world with it. The aircraft named Chengdu J-20 shows the great progress which the Chinese in modern weapons technology have made.

The question which many military experts will now that came from the know-how to protect yourself from the enemy's radar "invisible" to do? The answer could be, indirectly by the Americans themselves, because during the Balkan war of 1999, the Serbs shot down an American F-117 Nighthawk and the Chinese came by the debris ran to analyze and "reverse engineering" rebuild.

Read all: [link to translate.google.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/23/2011 06:39 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
I had a Freudian slip in the title which actually is correct: "Steal Fighter"

lol
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 06:42 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
I had a Freudian slip in the title which actually is correct: "Steal Fighter"

lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1201897


The Israelis have been selling the Chinese secret American weapons technology for decades as well.
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 06:42 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
China is probably reverse-engineering everything they can get their hands on, everybody knows this. I agree with what you say and it is very well possible they got their hands on the shot down plane. But what is your point ? The USA also takes apart every foreign technology they get their hands on, so does every country. Either to see if they can use it, or to evaluate the technology of enemies as well as allies. There is nothing unusual about this and it has always been that way.
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
did you ever think that maybe the F-117A was allowed to be shot down so the Chinese could be given the technology without any paper trail?

this was during Clinton's reign and the Chinese were being given tech freely, but this tech was too "sensitive" to be given then say it was just a security breach.

just saying.
I'm a Libertarian Constitutionalist.

I don't give a shit what you do with your own life, whether you make it a success or a failure, that is the outcome of the choices you make, but please take responsibility for yourself and don't make ME pay for YOUR choices and we're all good.

Repeal the 17th Amendment and the Apportionment Act of 1911!

Thread: First steps down the road to a return to the Constitutional Republic that we were intended to be.

Restore the Republic.

It's a flower, not something to be feared.

cow - Moo!
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 07:04 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
NATO Losses Revisited
NATO Covering Up Its Losses

Is NATO Hiding the Loss of Over 60 Aircraft? Yugoslav Air Force Raids Destroyed Scores of NATO Aircraft on the Ground in Tirana (Albania), Tuzla (Bosnia)


[link to www.truthinmedia.org]

According to the Foreign Military Review, the reason why Pentagon did not use Apaches in Kosovo "...had nothing to do with technical problems with the helicopters or insufficient training of their flight crews, as was often stated by NATO officials. The only reason was the April 26, 1999 attack carried out by Yugoslav "Galeb" fighters against "Rinas" airport located near Albania's capital of Tirana, where the Apaches were based. That day two groups of these light helicopters were destroyed and over 10 helicopters were damaged."
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 07:06 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
did you ever think that maybe the F-117A was allowed to be shot down so the Chinese could be given the technology without any paper trail?

this was during Clinton's reign and the Chinese were being given tech freely, but this tech was too "sensitive" to be given then say it was just a security breach.

just saying.
 Quoting: AC914884



I am certain that the F-117A shot down during that war was "allowed." It was the only stealth aircraft used in that war, yet it was the only US military plane shot down.
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 07:11 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
Saying they got it from a crashed F-177A sounds a lot better then saying they got it from hacked computers and/or intelligence leaks.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/23/2011 07:13 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
Here's a great documentary about F-117 and Stealth Technology:

Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 07:16 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
MOSCOW, Apr. 29 - In a story headlined "NATO Covering Up Own Losses," the Russian Agency of Political News (Agenstvo Politicheskih Novosti - APN) reported on Apr. 29 that NATO had lost over 60 aircraft during its 79-day war with Serbia. The estimates reportedly based on Russian government figures, released last month, but were hushed up in the West by the New World Order lapdog media.
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
did you ever think that maybe the F-117A was allowed to be shot down so the Chinese could be given the technology without any paper trail?

this was during Clinton's reign and the Chinese were being given tech freely, but this tech was too "sensitive" to be given then say it was just a security breach.

just saying.
 Quoting: AC914884



I am certain that the F-117A shot down during that war was "allowed." It was the only stealth aircraft used in that war, yet it was the only US military plane shot down.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1197208


when if first happened, I was certain that the Russians were meant to have the plane to study, but it would seem that the Chinese were the intended recipients all along.

I wonder if this fighters and the rumored stealth submarines are the true end results of this transfer of tech or if there have been other advances made that are not yet being acknowledged.
I'm a Libertarian Constitutionalist.

I don't give a shit what you do with your own life, whether you make it a success or a failure, that is the outcome of the choices you make, but please take responsibility for yourself and don't make ME pay for YOUR choices and we're all good.

Repeal the 17th Amendment and the Apportionment Act of 1911!

Thread: First steps down the road to a return to the Constitutional Republic that we were intended to be.

Restore the Republic.

It's a flower, not something to be feared.

cow - Moo!
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 07:27 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
On day 12 of the 72 day war NATO had already lost 32 aircraft.

"Greek paper." The "Athinaiki" (which means "The Athenian"), reporting from NATO HQ in Brussels and claiming a "100% accuracy", claimed on page nine of its April 7, 1999 edition that NATO had lost 32 airplanes and helicopters (check out the scanned copy of the Apr. 7 article in Greek --->). [link to www.truthinmedia.org]
TheRealUFOMan

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01/23/2011 07:33 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
Sounds like we've been Roswell'd
No One On GLP Could Have Known The Whole Time I Was An Ambassador To Them

If You Book It, They Will Come

What Energy Caused The Universe To Come Into Place Almost Instantaneously?
Dervısh Nlı
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01/23/2011 07:45 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
Ok-we lost 2 F16s also. O Grady an Goldfein so the F117 wasnt the only thing shot down in 95.
F117 shotdown March 99
Next you will be telling us we would do something silly like bomb the Chinesse Embassy in May 99.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/23/2011 07:49 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
China Stealth Fighter - Threat to U.S.? (VIDEO): [link to online.wsj.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/23/2011 07:51 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
Also, don't forget that the U.S. Stealth technology might have come from the Nazi's via the Paperclip project.

Another very interesting documentary

Hitler's Stealth Fighter: [link to www.viddler.com]
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 08:32 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
You people actually think that China can't design anything themselves?????As a group of people they are MUCH more intelligent,hard working and motivated than all of the American citizens......Enjoy your foolish pride for now because the Chinese are going to have the last laugh!
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 08:33 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
This is a perfect example... Thread: The-Deliberate-Dumbing-Down-of-America
Txheat

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01/23/2011 08:34 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
I really doubt they would, considering the way it was shot down. It was shot down WW2 style by Serbian SAM sites.
I'm just here to post good information when I can.
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 08:50 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
15 to 20 year old miltech nothing compared to today's stuff
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 09:22 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
You people actually think that China can't design anything themselves?????As a group of people they are MUCH more intelligent,hard working and motivated than all of the American citizens......Enjoy your foolish pride for now because the Chinese are going to have the last laugh!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1241045


I'm quite sure they are capable of designing it themselves.
That said...

Asian culture has a problem and that is conformity. I've
seen a good deal of software that has been 'outsourced',
the code tends to be like one of those old paint by numbers
books. No creativity, no going beyond the most literal
interpretation of requirements.

That China could produce a stealth without stealing anything
would not be at all surprising. That China would have ever
invented it on there own on the otherhand...
AC914884
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01/23/2011 09:23 PM

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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
You people actually think that China can't design anything themselves?????As a group of people they are MUCH more intelligent,hard working and motivated than all of the American citizens......Enjoy your foolish pride for now because the Chinese are going to have the last laugh!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1241045


you are right, how could we be so forgetful?

I mean we all remember the great and world changing inventions that came from China in the 20th century like the uhh, well, the err...

I'm drawing a blank, help me out here....
I'm a Libertarian Constitutionalist.

I don't give a shit what you do with your own life, whether you make it a success or a failure, that is the outcome of the choices you make, but please take responsibility for yourself and don't make ME pay for YOUR choices and we're all good.

Repeal the 17th Amendment and the Apportionment Act of 1911!

Thread: First steps down the road to a return to the Constitutional Republic that we were intended to be.

Restore the Republic.

It's a flower, not something to be feared.

cow - Moo!
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2011 09:26 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
the J-20 is Lockheed's wet dream because now they can pitch yet another generation of pointless archaic expensive jet fighters
Jessica6

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01/23/2011 10:11 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
China is probably reverse-engineering everything they can get their hands on, everybody knows this. I agree with what you say and it is very well possible they got their hands on the shot down plane. But what is your point ? The USA also takes apart every foreign technology they get their hands on, so does every country. Either to see if they can use it, or to evaluate the technology of enemies as well as allies. There is nothing unusual about this and it has always been that way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1240645


Sometimes it's just 'gifted'. The Soviet MIG used British made Rolls Royce engines.
The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - HL Mencken
Jessica6

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01/23/2011 10:15 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
did you ever think that maybe the F-117A was allowed to be shot down so the Chinese could be given the technology without any paper trail?

this was during Clinton's reign and the Chinese were being given tech freely, but this tech was too "sensitive" to be given then say it was just a security breach.

just saying.
 Quoting: AC914884


Wasn't the Chinese embassy in Serbia 'ooops bombed' in the 90s?
The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - HL Mencken
:)
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01/23/2011 10:42 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
did you ever think that maybe the F-117A was allowed to be shot down so the Chinese could be given the technology without any paper trail?

this was during Clinton's reign and the Chinese were being given tech freely, but this tech was too "sensitive" to be given then say it was just a security breach.

just saying.
 Quoting: AC914884


Clinton?

Much earlier:

Will Technology Stealing Charges Against Israel Change the U.S.-Israeli Relationship

"Administration officials have confirmed a detailed report by The Wall Street Journal, which said this week that the State Department's inspector general, Sherman Funk, had determined in a draft report that Israel has re-exported certain advanced American arms technologies to third countries without American permission. Israel has denied doing anything illegal."
-Thomas L. Friedman, The New York Times, March 15, 1992

The latest serious charges that Israel has turned the selling of America's military high technology to Third World dictatorships and human rights violaters into a major foreign-exchange-earning industry have directed U.S. media attention into three areas.

Critics of Israel seek to focus on the substance of the charges, prompted by numerous intelligence reports and subsequently investigated by a CIA-chaired inter-agency committee, the State Department's inspector general, the RAND Corporation under contract to the Pentagon and, most recently, a joint Defense, State and Commerce Department tem sent to Israel.

Israeli officials deny the newest charges, which echo persistent allegations over the past 20 years, and maintain that all Israeli technology transfers and arms sales for at least the past 12 years have been carried out with U.S. knowledge and implied consent...
[link to www.wrmea.com]

Israel’s Technology Transfer to China

The following is adapted from “Israel’s Technology Transfers to China” by Donald Neff, former Time Magazine Israel Bureau Chief – originally published in Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, June/July 1997, pp. 70-72.


On June 13, 1990 the Los Angeles Times reported that Israel had become the largest supplier of advanced military technology to China since the United States banned military sales to that country a year earlier. An unnamed U.S. official told the newspaper that Israel was a “back door to U.S. technology that the United States won’t sell them.” [1]

Israel was breaching the U.S. embargo against China using technology the U.S. had given to Israel for its own defense, even though the technology came with the restriction that Israel would not re-export.

Shortly before the Times report, Israel opened an office of the Israeli Academy of Sciences in Beijing. Doubtless it was that blatant act that caused U.S. officials to begin leaking information. The Times’ source said that Israel’s supposedly academic office in Beijing was actually “facilitating a whole range of military-to-military cooperation between Israel and China.” ...
[link to ariwatch.com]
:)
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01/23/2011 10:57 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
the J-20 is Lockheed's wet dream because now they can pitch yet another generation of pointless archaic expensive jet fighters
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196052


Naval Budget Adjusted for Stealthy Adversaries

Once upon a time, as the FY 1964 defense appropriations bill was making its way through congress, there came a somber moment when it looked as if the U.S. Navy might actually receive a lesser increase in its appropriation than its hated Air Force rival. Then, just when all seemed dark, a Soviet November class nuclear attack submarine surfaced a few miles off San Francisco Bay. Instantly, the situation on the battlefield was reversed, as press and congress urged emergency budgetary measures to ward off the looming threat of the Red Navy. Queried at a Pentagon press conference as to the convenient coincidence of the sub’s appearance, the chief navy flack simply smiled and said “I don’t know; we just got lucky I guess.”
russian november class submarine

Russian November Class Submarine

For much of the 1990s, luck deserted our military industrial complex. Its formerly reliable Soviet partners ceased to play their part, leaving the Pentagon to scour the world for a “peer or near peer competitor.” There were hopes, always futile, for a reconstituted USSR, or perhaps an emergent China (always popular on the right in those days) which was followed by the putative menace of regional competitors, (Iran, Iraq, North Korea) combining against America.

Help finally came from the CIA’s former Jihadi ally Osama bin Ladin, whose 9/11 attack sufficiently traumatized society to allow the Pentagon to spend any money it wanted on anything it wanted, relevant to the task at hand or not. Even so, old hands yearned for the days when a military spend-up could be justified by whatever the other guy was up to, especially with ominous talk circulating in Washington about restraining (not cutting of course) the defense budget.

Now, just like that long-ago Soviet sub captain, the Chinese have stepped up to the plate...


...Unfortunately, while some may applaud a Chinese initiative to spend the money that Wal-Mart sends them on a weapon of dubious utility, we too may end up paying a price, as the “threat” of China’s J-20 is invoked to justify further increases in our own obscenely bloated defense budget. [link to www.darkgovernment.com]
:)
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01/23/2011 11:03 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
NATIONAL SECURITY ALERT: F-35 STEALTH FIGHTER SPY COVER-UP

F-35 Joint Strike Fighter worthless?

“WIKI” STYLE ESPIONAGE LANDS $300 BILLION DOLLAR SUPER-PLANE PLANS


“Another spy disaster like Pollard, shoved under the rug too long due to pressure from the powerful Israeli lobby.”

On April 21, 2009, the Department of Defense announced the theft of 1.5 terabytes of data on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the platform meant give the United States and her allies air superiority for the next 40 years. In a flash, all that was gone, $300 billion dollars of funding down the drain, every system, defense, offense, stealth, everything needed to build one or shoot it down, all gone. Day one, China was accused but it wasn’t China, it wasn’t Iran, it wasn’t Pakistan. The theft left a clear signature, one identical to the data Wikileaks has been receiving, sources inside the Pentagon repeating the actions of Israeli-Soviet spy, Jonathan Pollard. As vital as the F-35 is to America’s defense, Pollard’s triumph on behalf of Soviet Russia and Israel dwarfs the current espionage coup.

Since the 2009 announcement, there has been nothing but silence.

When the theft was announced, Pentagon “damage control” went into action immediately branding the disaster as “unimportant” while scrambling to look for any possible way to “put the toothpaste back into the tube.” What Secretary Gates came up with was a simple denial and to pretend it never happened. With the continual efforts by the Israeli government to secure the release of master spy Jonathan Pollard, a “witch hunt” for another Israeli spy would endanger America’s hopes of winning a settlement between Israel and the Palestinians.

There was no real question, this was another Israeli operation, their “signature” was all over it...
[link to www.thepeoplesvoice.org]
AC914884
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
did you ever think that maybe the F-117A was allowed to be shot down so the Chinese could be given the technology without any paper trail?

this was during Clinton's reign and the Chinese were being given tech freely, but this tech was too "sensitive" to be given then say it was just a security breach.

just saying.
 Quoting: AC914884


Clinton?

<snip>
Israel’s Technology Transfer to China
<snip>
 Quoting: :) 1241147


it was during Clinton's time that the Chinese stealing secrets from Los Alamos came to light, that's what I meant. as far as I know, that was the first reported case of domestic Chinese spying right? or are there more cases?

I do not doubt that Isreal has been selling our tech for years. same goes for Germany, Japan, France, India, Saudi Arabia etc. they've probably all benefited from our innovations financially.
I'm a Libertarian Constitutionalist.

I don't give a shit what you do with your own life, whether you make it a success or a failure, that is the outcome of the choices you make, but please take responsibility for yourself and don't make ME pay for YOUR choices and we're all good.

Repeal the 17th Amendment and the Apportionment Act of 1911!

Thread: First steps down the road to a return to the Constitutional Republic that we were intended to be.

Restore the Republic.

It's a flower, not something to be feared.

cow - Moo!
:)
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01/24/2011 11:15 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
did you ever think that maybe the F-117A was allowed to be shot down so the Chinese could be given the technology without any paper trail?

this was during Clinton's reign and the Chinese were being given tech freely, but this tech was too "sensitive" to be given then say it was just a security breach.

just saying.
 Quoting: AC914884


Clinton?

<snip>
Israel’s Technology Transfer to China
<snip>
 Quoting: :) 1241147


it was during Clinton's time that the Chinese stealing secrets from Los Alamos came to light, that's what I meant. as far as I know, that was the first reported case of domestic Chinese spying right? or are there more cases?

I do not doubt that Isreal has been selling our tech for years. same goes for Germany, Japan, France, India, Saudi Arabia etc. they've probably all benefited from our innovations financially.
 Quoting: AC914884


Good thing they're your pals - or they'd really fuck you over.
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2011 11:22 PM
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Re: DID YOU KNOW?: China's J-20 Steal Fighter might have been reverse-engineered from US' F117 stealth bomber that was shot down over Serbia in
China is probably reverse-engineering everything they can get their hands on, everybody knows this. I agree with what you say and it is very well possible they got their hands on the shot down plane. But what is your point ? The USA also takes apart every foreign technology they get their hands on, so does every country. Either to see if they can use it, or to evaluate the technology of enemies as well as allies. There is nothing unusual about this and it has always been that way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1240645


Sometimes it's just 'gifted'. The Soviet MIG used British made Rolls Royce engines.
 Quoting: Jessica6


Yes, selling the engines was a big no no.

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