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# Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!

George B
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

User ID: 1219201
United States
01/25/2011 05:57 PM

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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
612 feet above sea level.....i think.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

At sea level water boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit. For every 500 feet above sea level, water boils about at 0.9F less. So at 4600 feet water would boil at 203.72 degrees Fahrenheit. (212-((0.9/500)*4600) means: normal boiling point (212 degrees) subtract 0.9 degrees per 500 feet (0.9/500) multiplied by elevation (4600 feet).

Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

I just boiled water at 180 degrees Fahrenheit . . . I used water which had been purified by using reverse osmosis from my drinking water system . . . I used a Cooper Cooking thermometer which is marked from 100 to 400 degrees Fahrenheit and is marked every five (5) degrees. I left the thermometer in the water until boiling was unmistakable. I live at 1156 feet above sea level.
While the thermometer is not calibrated against any standard, it is interesting that what I found is at least 20 degrees under what is expected! Pressure is 30.05 inches. Likely an error on the accuracy of the thermometer. Noting the range of temperatures on the thermometer that is only a 7 - 8% error from 210 - 212 degrees expected. Probably within expected variability of a non commercial product. According to [link to www.csgnetwork.com] the boiling point at 30.05 inches or 1017.6058 milibars is 212.241 degrees F or 100.134 degrees C. I will try to repeat with a different device.
Quoting: George B

Last Edited by George B on 01/25/2011 06:12 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Taurus757

User ID: 1120943
United States
01/25/2011 05:58 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
The earth atmospheric pressure has dropped by %6. It is caused by a decreasing magnetosphere.

Boil some water. It now boils at 176 degrees.

Major doom.

Just boiled an egg to test it out.

Tasty but quick.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

Murderer!!!
Cool Music Guy

User ID: 1172474
United States
01/25/2011 06:00 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
The earth atmospheric pressure has dropped by %6. It is caused by a decreasing magnetosphere.

Boil some water. It now boils at 176 degrees.

Major doom.

Just boiled an egg to test it out.

Tasty but quick.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

what is that in celsius?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1243351

80

It took exactly 2.46785 seconds for me to google this info and then 5.67859 seconds to post...

Listen to my music at [link to CoolMusicGuy.com]
AliceInTheRabbitHole

User ID: 1210759
United States
01/25/2011 06:01 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
The earth atmospheric pressure has dropped by %6. It is caused by a decreasing magnetosphere.

Boil some water. It now boils at 176 degrees.

Major doom.

Just boiled an egg to test it out.

Tasty but quick.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

what is that in celsius?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1243351

Try this handy lil' page: [link to www-users.med.cornell.edu]
Epic Beard Guy

User ID: 1079209
United States
01/25/2011 06:02 PM

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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
The earth atmospheric pressure has dropped by %6. It is caused by a decreasing magnetosphere.

Boil some water. It now boils at 176 degrees.

Major doom.

Just boiled an egg to test it out.

Tasty but quick.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

what is that in celsius?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1243351

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Cool Music Guy

User ID: 1172474
United States
01/25/2011 06:05 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
The earth atmospheric pressure has dropped by %6. It is caused by a decreasing magnetosphere.

Boil some water. It now boils at 176 degrees.

Major doom.

Just boiled an egg to test it out.

Tasty but quick.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

what is that in celsius?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1243351

Quoting: Epic Beard Guy

No, it would be celsius...

It took exactly 2.48347928347298347298347293847 seconds to google this information and approximately 4.29803475092834750928347509283475092834750923847502983475 seconds to post it.

Last Edited by Cool Music Guy on 01/25/2011 06:06 PM
Listen to my music at [link to CoolMusicGuy.com]
AliceInTheRabbitHole

User ID: 1210759
United States
01/25/2011 06:06 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
...

You'll be very pleased with our egg timer as it is also BROKEN, shipped directly to you with a nonworking bell!
We find it to be a perfect companion to our Broken Thermometers!!

Fondling of merchandise is available upon request, please allow 1 full shipping day extra for fondled merchandise as our experienced fondler (Heavy Hank) needs advanced notice due to high demand and low production..

So will that be one fondled order or two? ;)
Quoting: AliceInTheRabbitHole

I would be willing to wait up to five days if you will upgrade me to Molest for no extra charge.
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

Good NEWS! For people wanting the full out molestation we recommend taking a flight to our production plant. Molestation is included in the ticket price courtesy of TSA!

You'll receive your molestation, item order, plant tour AND a bonus lunch with Heavy Hank!
Quoting: AliceInTheRabbitHole

I've reconsidered and I would like a refund please :(
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

Aww :( Heavy Hank is very disappointed .. he was even gonna shower for the occasion.. oh well .... ;)
BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
01/25/2011 06:08 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
You will need to retry this experiment without watching the pot…
Quoting: White Hat

Yes, very interesting observational analysis indeed....

One would need to factor in the "watched pot" effect in order to determine the correct point at which the said RO water at sea level at 60 °F (15.56 °C; 288.71 K) and 14.696 psi (1 atm) would boil would also need to determine the WPI (watched pot index) reading, which can be determined by the following formula...

W = number of watchers

z = number of watchers who regularly post on GLP

y = number of total nanoseconds of eye contact per watcher
Quoting: Cool Music Guy

That whole watch pot theory is a load of bullshit...I often chop veggies and cut meat while watching for a pot of water to boil, and it works every time...
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
01/25/2011 06:10 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
...

I would be willing to wait up to five days if you will upgrade me to Molest for no extra charge.
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

Good NEWS! For people wanting the full out molestation we recommend taking a flight to our production plant. Molestation is included in the ticket price courtesy of TSA!

You'll receive your molestation, item order, plant tour AND a bonus lunch with Heavy Hank!
Quoting: AliceInTheRabbitHole

I've reconsidered and I would like a refund please :(
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

Aww :( Heavy Hank is very disappointed .. he was even gonna shower for the occasion.. oh well .... ;)
Quoting: AliceInTheRabbitHole

Somehow, I just can't summon up the will to give a damn :)
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1241680
Puerto Rico
01/25/2011 06:12 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
How the heck does a like this get pinned? I'm new to the board but I thought only valid breaking news gets pinned? Is this really doom?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1221156

Read the disclaimer down below, we do not discriminate against the mentally ill, there are role players, and mostly DON'T BELIEVE A DAMN WORD YOU READ ON THIS WEBSITE!
Cool Music Guy

User ID: 1172474
United States
01/25/2011 06:13 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
You will need to retry this experiment without watching the pot…
Quoting: White Hat

Yes, very interesting observational analysis indeed....

One would need to factor in the "watched pot" effect in order to determine the correct point at which the said RO water at sea level at 60 °F (15.56 °C; 288.71 K) and 14.696 psi (1 atm) would boil would also need to determine the WPI (watched pot index) reading, which can be determined by the following formula...

W = number of watchers

z = number of watchers who regularly post on GLP

y = number of total nanoseconds of eye contact per watcher
Quoting: Cool Music Guy

That whole watch pot theory is a load of bullshit...I often chop veggies and cut meat while watching for a pot of water to boil, and it works every time...
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

Actually, you are correct sir...

The entire "Watched Pot Index" was successfully debunked in late nineteenth century by a little-known scientist named Andy Boyles, who stated that the basic formula was not only formed entirely from bullshit, but also exuded the same types of aroma from its essence as well, as described by the equation...

BS = GLP(3x-4.333y)(SOL5.66+BFE/BFF)
Listen to my music at [link to CoolMusicGuy.com]
Sella
User ID: 1243377
United Kingdom
01/25/2011 06:17 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
Re original thread. According to physics, what you say is kak. More pressure, higher boiling point. Why do you waste yourself? Respect, but no Hoon.
AliceInTheRabbitHole

User ID: 1210759
United States
01/25/2011 06:18 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
...

Good NEWS! For people wanting the full out molestation we recommend taking a flight to our production plant. Molestation is included in the ticket price courtesy of TSA!

You'll receive your molestation, item order, plant tour AND a bonus lunch with Heavy Hank!
Quoting: AliceInTheRabbitHole

I've reconsidered and I would like a refund please :(
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

Aww :( Heavy Hank is very disappointed .. he was even gonna shower for the occasion.. oh well .... ;)
Quoting: AliceInTheRabbitHole

Somehow, I just can't summon up the will to give a damn :)
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

LOL!!
DanfromtheHills

User ID: 945238
United States
01/25/2011 06:18 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
Just to clarify. I did not use any salt in the water. It was RO water. about 3 cups in a stainless pan. Natural gas stove.

I salted the egg after i peeled it.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

Was it delicious?
"Nothing to see here, go back to sheep..." --- AC 1251379
AliceInTheRabbitHole

User ID: 1210759
United States
01/25/2011 06:20 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
Just to clarify. I did not use any salt in the water. It was RO water. about 3 cups in a stainless pan. Natural gas stove.

I salted the egg after i peeled it.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

Was it delicious?
Quoting: DanfromtheHills

YUCK.. Salting the boiled egg is for grandmas and ninnies... OP shoulda used Hot Sauce! ;)
DanfromtheHills

User ID: 945238
United States
01/25/2011 06:24 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
Just to clarify. I did not use any salt in the water. It was RO water. about 3 cups in a stainless pan. Natural gas stove.

I salted the egg after i peeled it.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

Was it delicious?
Quoting: DanfromtheHills

YUCK.. Salting the boiled egg is for grandmas and ninnies... OP shoulda used Hot Sauce! ;)
Quoting: AliceInTheRabbitHole

I'm guessing shell shock.

After the rapid cooking of the egg, the OP may not have been thinking clearly, and reverted back to comfort food...
"Nothing to see here, go back to sheep..." --- AC 1251379
Cool Music Guy

User ID: 1172474
United States
01/25/2011 06:25 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
Just to clarify. I did not use any salt in the water. It was RO water. about 3 cups in a stainless pan. Natural gas stove.

I salted the egg after i peeled it.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

Was it delicious?
Quoting: DanfromtheHills

YUCK.. Salting the boiled egg is for grandmas and ninnies... OP shoulda used Hot Sauce! ;)
Quoting: AliceInTheRabbitHole

I agree...

Tabasco roolz!!
Listen to my music at [link to CoolMusicGuy.com]
Mother Mary

User ID: 628029
United States
01/25/2011 06:31 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
I was making dinner and thought of this thread. I was making peas so figured what the hey. I have a Hamilton Beach thermometer. It started boiling at about 195 degrees. Then I moved the thermometer over to the part the was boiling and it went up to about 203 degrees. I'd have to do it again, but it is weird to watch it happen. I am 680 feet elevation in Ohio.
My anthem to the shills of GLP:
We're never gonna, believe in, the stories, that you're weavin'
We're believin' in the proof, we're believin' in the truth
We're believin' in each other, not you, you, you
(Bang Bang Bang - Mark Ronson)
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
“Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.” - Robert Anton Wilson
AliceInTheRabbitHole

User ID: 1210759
United States
01/25/2011 06:39 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
Just to clarify. I did not use any salt in the water. It was RO water. about 3 cups in a stainless pan. Natural gas stove.

I salted the egg after i peeled it.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1064613

Was it delicious?
Quoting: DanfromtheHills

YUCK.. Salting the boiled egg is for grandmas and ninnies... OP shoulda used Hot Sauce! ;)
Quoting: AliceInTheRabbitHole

I'm guessing shell shock.

After the rapid cooking of the egg, the OP may not have been thinking clearly, and reverted back to comfort food...
Quoting: DanfromtheHills

Egg shell shock? ;)
BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
01/25/2011 06:40 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
I was making dinner and thought of this thread. I was making peas so figured what the hey. I have a Hamilton Beach thermometer. It started boiling at about 195 degrees. Then I moved the thermometer over to the part the was boiling and it went up to about 203 degrees. I'd have to do it again, but it is weird to watch it happen. I am 680 feet elevation in Ohio.
Quoting: Mother Mary

The thermometer will have to touch the bottom of the pot, but to get a true reading of the boiling point, a body of water should be heated in an oven so as to be 100% accurate...and the thermometer must be completely submerged for the duration...

Last Edited by BRIEF AND TO THE POINT on 01/25/2011 06:41 PM
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
George B
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

User ID: 1219201
United States
01/25/2011 06:43 PM

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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
I am at sea level.

I just boiled water and watched the temperature on an industrial thermometer (belongs to husband) and a digital candy thermometer (belongs to me)

The bubbles started to leave the bottom of the pan at 60 degrees C (140 F)

I stirred to disperse the bubbles (did not stop the light boiling)

A full rolling boil began @ 70C (160F)

It was at a full boil (could not increase as temperature increased) at 80C (176F)

Normally, I think most of the posts here are crazy (but entertaining) but this one is true. I was able to replicate on the other side of the world at sea level.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 664728

Seems most people are getting temperatures well below expected. That would mean that most errors in the instruments cluster on the negative side of the curve . . . that is the thermometers are set to read low in general.
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1216811
United States
01/25/2011 06:43 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
ive posted so many threads that were more intelligent than this one, and they were all forgotten within minutes!! This STOOOPID ass thread has been pinned all day!!! I DONT GET IT TRINITY@!!!! WHY!!??!? WWHHHYYYY!!!!???? <shakes fist at sky>

BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
01/25/2011 06:45 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
I am at sea level.

I just boiled water and watched the temperature on an industrial thermometer (belongs to husband) and a digital candy thermometer (belongs to me)

The bubbles started to leave the bottom of the pan at 60 degrees C (140 F)

I stirred to disperse the bubbles (did not stop the light boiling)

A full rolling boil began @ 70C (160F)

It was at a full boil (could not increase as temperature increased) at 80C (176F)

Normally, I think most of the posts here are crazy (but entertaining) but this one is true. I was able to replicate on the other side of the world at sea level.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 664728

Seems most people are getting temperatures well below expected. That would mean that most errors in the instruments cluster on the negative side of the curve . . . that is the thermometers are set to read low in general.
Quoting: George B

No, if you are taking this seriously, which I haven't so far you must use an oven...if you heat from the bottom only on a stove you will have fluctuating temperatures.
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
George B
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

User ID: 1219201
United States
01/25/2011 06:52 PM

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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!

No, if you are taking this seriously, which I haven't so far you must use an oven...if you heat from the bottom only on a stove you will have fluctuating temperatures.

Makes sense. That would insure the uniformity of the thermometer's and the water's temperature throughout their shared environment. Problem is we don't have ovens with the visibility so we can view such an event.

Last Edited by George B on 01/25/2011 06:55 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
01/25/2011 06:56 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
Quoting: George B

No, if you are taking this seriously, which I haven't so far you must use an oven...if you heat from the bottom only on a stove you will have fluctuating temperatures.

Makes sense. That would insure the uniformity of the thermometer's and the water's temperature throughout their shared environment. Problem is we don't have ovens so we can view such an event.

How can you have no oven? Are you a cave person?
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
George B
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

User ID: 1219201
United States
01/25/2011 07:01 PM

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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
Quoting: George B

No, if you are taking this seriously, which I haven't so far you must use an oven...if you heat from the bottom only on a stove you will have fluctuating temperatures.
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

Makes sense. That would insure the uniformity of the thermometer's and the water's temperature throughout their shared environment. Problem is we don't have ovens so we can view such an event.

How can you have no oven? Are you a cave person?

Not one inwhich I can read the thermometer and see the water boil. . . and I doubt that you do either.

Last Edited by George B on 01/25/2011 07:02 PM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

"Email: MonaAnnLisa@yahoo.com"

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
DanfromtheHills

User ID: 945238
United States
01/25/2011 07:03 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
I was making dinner and thought of this thread. I was making peas so figured what the hey. I have a Hamilton Beach thermometer. It started boiling at about 195 degrees. Then I moved the thermometer over to the part the was boiling and it went up to about 203 degrees. I'd have to do it again, but it is weird to watch it happen. I am 680 feet elevation in Ohio.
Quoting: Mother Mary

The thermometer will have to touch the bottom of the pot, but to get a true reading of the boiling point, a body of water should be heated in an oven so as to be 100% accurate...and the thermometer must be completely submerged for the duration...
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

I remember that set of laboratory experiments from Physics 11 at WVU.

Frustrating. You'd be surprised the things that can cause inaccurate measurements. Placement of the thermometer. Geometry of the heat source/insulating material. Type of thermometer. Sample quality.
"Nothing to see here, go back to sheep..." --- AC 1251379
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 568763
United States
01/25/2011 07:04 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
I'm cooking pork for dinner, usually done at 165 degrees.

I'll serve it at 135 degrees tonight.

THANKS GLP !!!!
BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
01/25/2011 07:06 PM
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Re: Water now boils at 176 degrees! Doom!
Quoting: George B

No, if you are taking this seriously, which I haven't so far you must use an oven...if you heat from the bottom only on a stove you will have fluctuating temperatures.
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

Makes sense. That would insure the uniformity of the thermometer's and the water's temperature throughout their shared environment. Problem is we don't have ovens so we can view such an event.
Quoting: George B

How can you have no oven? Are you a cave person?

Not one inwhich I can read the thermometer and see the water boil. . . and I doubt that you do either.

Sure I do. I have oven safe glass cookware and an oven with a glass window in the door and a light inside...I use it all the time to control what I cook without having to open the door...
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
9ii

User ID: 1241674
Germany
01/25/2011 07:08 PM
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