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Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:11 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

Where in the text that you have quoted is any mention of cruelty? These Allah entity is described with different attributes to the God of Christianity. This is self evident. How does what you have written address this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


Ummm.. Have you read the Old Testament? Cruelty was the MO. Perhaps if we sugar coat it and call it "vengeful" instead you'll be more familiar with the work which was suggested.

This is irrelevant to the discussion, which is about the differing attributes ascribed to the various "one God" theory. One of the attributes that one of the Old Testament gods has is indeed cruelty. One of the attributes of the Christian God is that it is tripartite, an attribute it does not share with any of the Old Testament gods or the Allah of Islam. Various of the Old Testament gods and the Christian God, grant free will. This is an attribute that they do not share with the Allah of Islam, who wills everything, and thus micromanages the entire universe.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:13 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
...


Uh no....

Hosea 6:6

For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


Yeah, all that kinda contradicts the sacrifices demanded of Abraham to kill his son Isaac, not to mention all the sacrifices and burnt offerings offered up in the Holy of Holies... But perhaps that was an enlightened God who had seen the error of his ways.. oh.. wait..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1231298


Yeah I agree....

Jeremiah 7:22

For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


Which totally goes 180 in the face of Leviticus 6:9

“Give Aaron and his sons the following instructions regarding the burnt offering. The burnt offering must be left on top of the altar until the next morning, and the fire on the altar must be kept burning all night.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1231298


Exactly. So if that wasn't God commanding those things, who was it...two options...the Levite priesthood (the rich people) who wrote the Bible, or the Ha-Shaitan. I will take the former.

And what did Jesus say?

"It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law (Torah)," Jesus replied.

Mark 10:5


There's a third option as well, and it's what I lean to - That the Bible is a mash up between similar faiths' doctrine. The fact that there are two very clear and distinct Genesis stories lends credence to this. Under this scenario, the contradictory passages could be broke down into two or more complete texts showing slightly different faiths.
TXGal4Truth

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01/29/2011 11:14 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?

Yeah, all that kinda contradicts the sacrifices demanded of Abraham to kill his son Isaac, not to mention all the sacrifices and burnt offerings offered up in the Holy of Holies... But perhaps that was an enlightened God who had seen the error of his ways.. oh.. wait..
 Quoting: Anonymous Cowards ..various


[link to www.evilbible.com]

only some collected examples of the God in the "old testament" :


God now commands that all women must have health hazardous labors for Eve ate the fruit. In no way shape or form is it just that I must pay for the sins of my ancestors. Genesis 3:16

God caused sibling rivalry by favoring Abel over Cain, with absolutely no attempt at justification. This act of favoritism led to Abel’s death. Genesis 4:3-5

Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the planet save eight of them.

God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her master though she does not want to. Genesis 16:7-9

Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children included) simply because they were supposedly homosexual.

Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that the Lord slew him. How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn’t give us this bit of information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord. Genesis 38:7

Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister in law.

Exodus 12:29 God repeatedly tells Moses exactly what calamity he will next visit upon the Egyptians if the Pharaoh does not allow the Israelites to be set free from slavery. Then he tells Moses (also repeatedly) that he will harden Pharaoh’s heart, so that he will refuse to allow the Israelites to go, thus bringing a calamity upon his own people, as well as showing him the awesome power of the Israelites’ Lord. This occurs over and over, bringing calamity upon calamity upon the Egyptian people. What is troubling about this verse is that when god “hardens the pharaoh’s heart” he is interfering with the Pharaoh’s free will and ultimately bringing punishment on the Egyptians for something they are not responsible for. As a final punishment god decides to kill all the first born of Egypt. The lord reduced himself to murdering innocent kids when he could have simply freed the Israelites himself with his “omnipotent” power.

God punishes children for the sins of their fathers, unto the third and fourth generations. Punishing a child for the sins of their ancestors is not very just. Exodus 20:5&34:7

God endorses slavery. He even set up laws as to how slavery was to be carried out, and goes as far as Okaying beating them. Exodus 21:2-6

God sanctioned the selling of ones daughter. How can any being tell another to literally sell their child into slavery? Disgusting! Exodus 21:7

Exodus 22:18 God orders the death of witches, sorceresses and anyone who practices magic. Sadly enough, this verse was justification for the Inquisition.

Exodus 32:27 God ordered to be killed, 3,000 Israelites for no greater crime than worshipping a golden calf. I don’t know about you but death is a pretty harsh fucking punishment.

Leviticus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents and death for adultery. Gee, with these types of laws the population should be almost nil by now.

Once again god is a homophobe, or at the very least, a bigot. Leviticus 20:13

Handicapped people must not approach the altar. Leviticus 21:16-23

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shill ye eat.”

Leviticus 27:28-29 God ordered and allowed human sacrifices.

Numbers 16:27 God buries alive Korah and his family.

Numbers 16:35 God killed 250 Levite princes who disagreed with Moses’ leadership. He was so bloodthirsty that he wanted to slay more until he was talked out of it. Later he put a plague upon 14,700 Jews who thought there was something wrong in killing 250 princes.

Numbers 21:1-3 God utterly destroyed the Canaanites at Hormah as a favor to the Jews.

Numbers 21:27-35 God abetted Moses in utterly destroying the Amorites at Heshbon - “…the men, the women, and the little ones.”

Numbers 31:17-18 God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people including children and women. To top it off he commands that the virgins be saved for later raping by Moses’ soldiers.

Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God ordered Moses’ army to “utterly destroy” 60 cities, killing all the women and children within!

Deuteronomy 7:12 God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of seven nations. He even adds, “show no mercy unto them”.

Deuteronomy 20:16 God orders that we kill everything that breathes in the cities that he gives us for an inheritance

A bastard can’t attend church “even to his tenth generation.” As if denying an innocent child rights to worship isn’t cruel. Deuteronomy 23:2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248126


Hey Hitler. Why don't you STUDY the book instead of cherry picking.
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
************************************
“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.” ~Isaac Newton
************************************
We are called to be BOLD. ~Joshua 1:9~
************************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:15 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

Where in the text that you have quoted is any mention of cruelty? These Allah entity is described with different attributes to the God of Christianity. This is self evident. How does what you have written address this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


Ummm.. Have you read the Old Testament? Cruelty was the MO. Perhaps if we sugar coat it and call it "vengeful" instead you'll be more familiar with the work which was suggested.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

This is irrelevant to the discussion, which is about the differing attributes ascribed to the various "one God" theory. One of the attributes that one of the Old Testament gods has is indeed cruelty. One of the attributes of the Christian God is that it is tripartite, an attribute it does not share with any of the Old Testament gods or the Allah of Islam. Various of the Old Testament gods and the Christian God, grant free will. This is an attribute that they do not share with the Allah of Islam, who wills everything, and thus micromanages the entire universe.


B.S.

I am getting sick of people saying Jesus' God was not the God of the Old Testament, or the God of the Quran...God is absolute JUSTICE. God loves righteousness, God is honorable, God HATES injustice, he hates the rapist, the murderer, the one who curses and plots on His brother, even more so, he hates the hypocrite...and yes the God of the New Testament is one of ELECTION, the elect, the righteous are pre-selected, just like the one's who Submit to God are pre-selected in the Quran...I hear a lot of shooting from the hip on GLP, but no one who actually KNOWS. And no one in the NT does it say god is three parts...baloney.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:15 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
...


If you think that you are ignorant. Do the research, the Muslims like to claim that it is the same as the Christian God but Allah's origin is a pagan mood god that lives in a rock in Mecca.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 807009


And YHWH was the Thunder God..

There are many "gods" in the Christian bible. Elohim, YHWH, El Shaddai, El Elyon, El Olam, Adonai, and about a dozen other names I can't think of off the top of my head.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706

Yes and they all have different attributes, to each other and to the Allah of Islam, and the modern God of Christianity. There may well in actuality be just one God, but which one of the many "one Gods" is it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913


That's a whole other can of worms for an entirely different thread, I'm afraid. The fact is that there is abundant evidence per what you cited - They had different personalities/attributes that suggests a monotheistic "God" never existed in the first place, but a league of "gods." Since they have been lump summed together in the Bible, it only stands to reason that Allah is one of these deities as well. They are all Abrahamic Religions based on the same founding scriptures. To say that Jews, Christians, and Muslims which fall under the broader title of Abrahamic Religions are "totally different" is inept to say the least.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706

It is not necessarily inept, because Abraham's innovation was to declare that there is only one God. Each of these traditions you mention follow on from this by declaring that their god is the One God, that Abraham conceived of.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:17 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

Where in the text that you have quoted is any mention of cruelty? These Allah entity is described with different attributes to the God of Christianity. This is self evident. How does what you have written address this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


Ummm.. Have you read the Old Testament? Cruelty was the MO. Perhaps if we sugar coat it and call it "vengeful" instead you'll be more familiar with the work which was suggested.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

This is irrelevant to the discussion, which is about the differing attributes ascribed to the various "one God" theory. One of the attributes that one of the Old Testament gods has is indeed cruelty. One of the attributes of the Christian God is that it is tripartite, an attribute it does not share with any of the Old Testament gods or the Allah of Islam. Various of the Old Testament gods and the Christian God, grant free will. This is an attribute that they do not share with the Allah of Islam, who wills everything, and thus micromanages the entire universe.


Jesus must have had a different God. But then again : he was a jew.Did not Jesus say he came to FULFILL the prophecies of Jesaja `? Did he not say he keeps Moses law ?. makes you think because it does nowhere near fit JhVH,.

An Angry Jealous God ( old Testament ) :


"I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now! Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.' But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn." So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations. For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them. All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy. "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together. My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings. (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:18 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

Where in the text that you have quoted is any mention of cruelty? These Allah entity is described with different attributes to the God of Christianity. This is self evident. How does what you have written address this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


Ummm.. Have you read the Old Testament? Cruelty was the MO. Perhaps if we sugar coat it and call it "vengeful" instead you'll be more familiar with the work which was suggested.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

This is irrelevant to the discussion, which is about the differing attributes ascribed to the various "one God" theory. One of the attributes that one of the Old Testament gods has is indeed cruelty. One of the attributes of the Christian God is that it is tripartite, an attribute it does not share with any of the Old Testament gods or the Allah of Islam. Various of the Old Testament gods and the Christian God, grant free will. This is an attribute that they do not share with the Allah of Islam, who wills everything, and thus micromanages the entire universe.


And if you tell a Christian or Jew that there is more than one "God" in the Bible, they go ape-shit. That is what makes it relevant. Because you have Muslims who group all the traits of their gods into one micromanaging "God" Allah, vs Jews and Christians who's texts separates the traits between many deities but proclaim a unified "God" that does all the same things Allah is attributed to.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:19 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
Hey Hitler. Why don't you STUDY the book instead of cherry picking.
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


It's ok hun, I try to forget how bi-polar God can be too..
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:20 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
...


Yeah, all that kinda contradicts the sacrifices demanded of Abraham to kill his son Isaac, not to mention all the sacrifices and burnt offerings offered up in the Holy of Holies... But perhaps that was an enlightened God who had seen the error of his ways.. oh.. wait..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1231298


Yeah I agree....

Jeremiah 7:22

For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


Which totally goes 180 in the face of Leviticus 6:9

“Give Aaron and his sons the following instructions regarding the burnt offering. The burnt offering must be left on top of the altar until the next morning, and the fire on the altar must be kept burning all night.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1231298


Exactly. So if that wasn't God commanding those things, who was it...two options...the Levite priesthood (the rich people) who wrote the Bible, or the Ha-Shaitan. I will take the former.

And what did Jesus say?

"It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law (Torah)," Jesus replied.

Mark 10:5
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


There's a third option as well, and it's what I lean to - That the Bible is a mash up between similar faiths' doctrine. The fact that there are two very clear and distinct Genesis stories lends credence to this. Under this scenario, the contradictory passages could be broke down into two or more complete texts showing slightly different faiths.


Or there is another option...God is all from our perspective...so it is only obvious his "book" should be a mirror of humanities wants and desires...

Isaiah 45:7

I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Now check this out...

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

So what does the above mean? It means a wicked man will find wickedness in the Bible...it means a righteous man will find righteousness in the same book...the Bible is a reflection of the one reading it...IT IS A TEST.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:23 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
The Quran is clear that Allah hath no son. Not the same God as Jesus's Father. I could go on but clearly you have no idea what you're talking about so I won't waste any more time.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:24 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

Where in the text that you have quoted is any mention of cruelty? These Allah entity is described with different attributes to the God of Christianity. This is self evident. How does what you have written address this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


Ummm.. Have you read the Old Testament? Cruelty was the MO. Perhaps if we sugar coat it and call it "vengeful" instead you'll be more familiar with the work which was suggested.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

This is irrelevant to the discussion, which is about the differing attributes ascribed to the various "one God" theory. One of the attributes that one of the Old Testament gods has is indeed cruelty. One of the attributes of the Christian God is that it is tripartite, an attribute it does not share with any of the Old Testament gods or the Allah of Islam. Various of the Old Testament gods and the Christian God, grant free will. This is an attribute that they do not share with the Allah of Islam, who wills everything, and thus micromanages the entire universe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1231298


B.S.

I am getting sick of people saying Jesus' God was not the God of the Old Testament, or the God of the Quran...God is absolute JUSTICE. God loves righteousness, God is honorable, God HATES injustice, he hates the rapist, the murderer, the one who curses and plots on His brother, even more so, he hates the hypocrite...and yes the God of the New Testament is one of ELECTION, the elect, the righteous are pre-selected, just like the one's who Submit to God are pre-selected in the Quran...I hear a lot of shooting from the hip on GLP, but no one who actually KNOWS. And no one in the NT does it say god is three parts...baloney.

You may be sick of it, but it is a simple fact that needs to be dealt with. You have a personal god that you also claim is the One God. You have ascribed attributes to it, such as a personality that hates. In this respect you have differentiated your god from other "One Gods". The god of your imagining is also unjust, because you describe it as "preselecting" people. In this respect your personal god is more similar to the Islamic Allah entity, that not only preselects, but controls people behavior, so they will be preselected, as we are taught by Sura 2 V 6-8. Thae New Testament does not explicitly state the tripartite nature of the Christian God, but that book is used by modern Christians to justify describing their God as Father-Son-Holy Ghost.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:26 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
Hey Hitler. Why don't you STUDY the book instead of cherry picking.
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


It's ok hun, I try to forget how bi-polar God can be too..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


well some more "cherry picking" reminders ( there are so many.. )


God Will Kill Everyone


"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)

Kill All of Babylon


"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)



Killed by a Lion


Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:26 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
...


And YHWH was the Thunder God..

There are many "gods" in the Christian bible. Elohim, YHWH, El Shaddai, El Elyon, El Olam, Adonai, and about a dozen other names I can't think of off the top of my head.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706

Yes and they all have different attributes, to each other and to the Allah of Islam, and the modern God of Christianity. There may well in actuality be just one God, but which one of the many "one Gods" is it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913


That's a whole other can of worms for an entirely different thread, I'm afraid. The fact is that there is abundant evidence per what you cited - They had different personalities/attributes that suggests a monotheistic "God" never existed in the first place, but a league of "gods." Since they have been lump summed together in the Bible, it only stands to reason that Allah is one of these deities as well. They are all Abrahamic Religions based on the same founding scriptures. To say that Jews, Christians, and Muslims which fall under the broader title of Abrahamic Religions are "totally different" is inept to say the least.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706

It is not necessarily inept, because Abraham's innovation was to declare that there is only one God. Each of these traditions you mention follow on from this by declaring that their god is the One God, that Abraham conceived of.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913


Yes, you have a point here. Thank you for putting it that way, I hadn't looked at it in that light. It's something that is never brought up in Christian circles, but despite never acknowledging this fact, Christians do worship a different God than Jews and Muslims. Their flaw though is not differentiating between the different gods mentioned in the Bible and telling everyone to follow the book as a whole.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:27 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
The Quran is clear that Allah hath no son. Not the same God as Jesus's Father. I could go on but clearly you have no idea what you're talking about so I won't waste any more time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 985288


You understand why? Because at the time, in Arabia, people were saying God came to earth had sex with Mary and Jesus was the literal son, and that MARY WAS THE MOTHER OF GOD, people WERE WORSHIPING MARY AND PRAYING TO SAINTS...kind of like Catholicism...Islam was a rebuttal against what is really Paganism.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:29 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

Where in the text that you have quoted is any mention of cruelty? These Allah entity is described with different attributes to the God of Christianity. This is self evident. How does what you have written address this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


Ummm.. Have you read the Old Testament? Cruelty was the MO. Perhaps if we sugar coat it and call it "vengeful" instead you'll be more familiar with the work which was suggested.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

This is irrelevant to the discussion, which is about the differing attributes ascribed to the various "one God" theory. One of the attributes that one of the Old Testament gods has is indeed cruelty. One of the attributes of the Christian God is that it is tripartite, an attribute it does not share with any of the Old Testament gods or the Allah of Islam. Various of the Old Testament gods and the Christian God, grant free will. This is an attribute that they do not share with the Allah of Islam, who wills everything, and thus micromanages the entire universe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


And if you tell a Christian or Jew that there is more than one "God" in the Bible, they go ape-shit. That is what makes it relevant. Because you have Muslims who group all the traits of their gods into one micromanaging "God" Allah, vs Jews and Christians who's texts separates the traits between many deities but proclaim a unified "God" that does all the same things Allah is attributed to.

This is where the difficulty lies. Some of the attributes of the various gods are contradictory, so no unification may be possible. Although, personally I would welcome a single unified God, and think it would be a worthwhile cause for all Jews, Christians and Muslims to work towards. I hope that we will see conferences attended by large numbers of each, where they will hammer out, once and for all a decent, unified set of attributes.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:30 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
The Quran is clear that Allah hath no son. Not the same God as Jesus's Father.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 985288


JeHoVaH/YAHWE/YHVH/ADONAI/ELOHIM HAS ALSO NO SON.

Judaism teaches so.
Rabbis even say it is ridiculous to even think he might need a "son", for what purpose if he is almighty ?.

You are refering to your narrow christian view, which is by the way not the major religion at all if you count christians vs. Muslims + Jews ..
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:31 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
Or there is another option...God is all from our perspective...so it is only obvious his "book" should be a mirror of humanities wants and desires...

Isaiah 45:7

I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Now check this out...

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

So what does the above mean? It means a wicked man will find wickedness in the Bible...it means a righteous man will find righteousness in the same book...the Bible is a reflection of the one reading it...IT IS A TEST.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1231298


Very interesting take on it all. I guess I'm wicked and damned since I personally view the fire and brimstone negates any passages depicting love and mercy. Then again, I come from a Christian background where it's all one deity doing it all.
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01/29/2011 11:32 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
...

Where in the text that you have quoted is any mention of cruelty? These Allah entity is described with different attributes to the God of Christianity. This is self evident. How does what you have written address this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


Ummm.. Have you read the Old Testament? Cruelty was the MO. Perhaps if we sugar coat it and call it "vengeful" instead you'll be more familiar with the work which was suggested.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

This is irrelevant to the discussion, which is about the differing attributes ascribed to the various "one God" theory. One of the attributes that one of the Old Testament gods has is indeed cruelty. One of the attributes of the Christian God is that it is tripartite, an attribute it does not share with any of the Old Testament gods or the Allah of Islam. Various of the Old Testament gods and the Christian God, grant free will. This is an attribute that they do not share with the Allah of Islam, who wills everything, and thus micromanages the entire universe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1231298


B.S.

I am getting sick of people saying Jesus' God was not the God of the Old Testament, or the God of the Quran...God is absolute JUSTICE. God loves righteousness, God is honorable, God HATES injustice, he hates the rapist, the murderer, the one who curses and plots on His brother, even more so, he hates the hypocrite...and yes the God of the New Testament is one of ELECTION, the elect, the righteous are pre-selected, just like the one's who Submit to God are pre-selected in the Quran...I hear a lot of shooting from the hip on GLP, but no one who actually KNOWS. And no one in the NT does it say god is three parts...baloney.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913

You may be sick of it, but it is a simple fact that needs to be dealt with. You have a personal god that you also claim is the One God. You have ascribed attributes to it, such as a personality that hates. In this respect you have differentiated your god from other "One Gods". The god of your imagining is also unjust, because you describe it as "preselecting" people. In this respect your personal god is more similar to the Islamic Allah entity, that not only preselects, but controls people behavior, so they will be preselected, as we are taught by Sura 2 V 6-8. Thae New Testament does not explicitly state the tripartite nature of the Christian God, but that book is used by modern Christians to justify describing their God as Father-Son-Holy Ghost.


Saying baptize in the name of the Father (God), Son (Your rabbi/messiah), Holy Spirit (God's power) does not imply a trinitarian god in MY MIND. So yeah, that is my interpretation. And I think the New Testament is crystal clear in the doctrine of pre-selection, the elect implies that God has arranged history, in this respect it is not different than Islam. And I do think the Calvinist and the Sunni Muslims have a lot in common. LOL.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:33 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
Or there is another option...God is all from our perspective...so it is only obvious his "book" should be a mirror of humanities wants and desires...

Isaiah 45:7

I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Now check this out...

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

So what does the above mean? It means a wicked man will find wickedness in the Bible...it means a righteous man will find righteousness in the same book...the Bible is a reflection of the one reading it...IT IS A TEST.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1231298


Very interesting take on it all. I guess I'm wicked and damned since I personally view the fire and brimstone negates any passages depicting love and mercy. Then again, I come from a Christian background where it's all one deity doing it all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706


It's beyond our comprehension. We can only see the duality.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:33 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
...

Yes and they all have different attributes, to each other and to the Allah of Islam, and the modern God of Christianity. There may well in actuality be just one God, but which one of the many "one Gods" is it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913


That's a whole other can of worms for an entirely different thread, I'm afraid. The fact is that there is abundant evidence per what you cited - They had different personalities/attributes that suggests a monotheistic "God" never existed in the first place, but a league of "gods." Since they have been lump summed together in the Bible, it only stands to reason that Allah is one of these deities as well. They are all Abrahamic Religions based on the same founding scriptures. To say that Jews, Christians, and Muslims which fall under the broader title of Abrahamic Religions are "totally different" is inept to say the least.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706

It is not necessarily inept, because Abraham's innovation was to declare that there is only one God. Each of these traditions you mention follow on from this by declaring that their god is the One God, that Abraham conceived of.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913


Yes, you have a point here. Thank you for putting it that way, I hadn't looked at it in that light. It's something that is never brought up in Christian circles, but despite never acknowledging this fact, Christians do worship a different God than Jews and Muslims. Their flaw though is not differentiating between the different gods mentioned in the Bible and telling everyone to follow the book as a whole.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248706

Their flaw is in not striving to live according to the teachings of Jesus, and instead spending time looking for justification for the things they want to do, by searching the verses of the Bible.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:34 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
No... I don't know that.

Incorrect.
 Quoting: ScrumpTheTexan


No, it is absolutely correct... You are all the children of Abraham

I cannot believe a professed Christian does not know that!
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01/29/2011 11:34 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
WRONG!
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


RIGHT!
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:36 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
This is where the difficulty lies. Some of the attributes of the various gods are contradictory, so no unification may be possible. Although, personally I would welcome a single unified God, and think it would be a worthwhile cause for all Jews, Christians and Muslims to work towards. I hope that we will see conferences attended by large numbers of each, where they will hammer out, once and for all a decent, unified set of attributes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1247913


I would also welcome that. Too much apathy on both sides to ever co-exist peacefully. I'm afraid though that both sides would fight tooth and nail against this as it would be seen as perverting the religions, when in fact it would be nothing more than a second reordering of the religious text as was done under Constantine.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:38 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
Saying baptize in the name of the Father (God), Son (Your rabbi/messiah), Holy Spirit (God's power) does not imply a trinitarian god in MY MIND. So yeah, that is my interpretation. And I think the New Testament is crystal clear in the doctrine of pre-selection, the elect implies that God has arranged history, in this respect it is not different than Islam. And I do think the Calvinist and the Sunni Muslims have a lot in common. LOL.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1231298

In your mind, as an individual, perhaps. But then you are probably not a main stream Christian. Are you a Unitarian or perhaps Old Christian. I hate to use the word "Primitive" because many people have a value judgment associated with that word, that in their mind has a negative implication. But a Primitive Christian is one who believes and practices according to the original ways before the Nicean creed.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:39 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
No... I don't know that.

Incorrect.
 Quoting: ScrumpTheTexan


No, it is absolutely correct... You are all the children of Abraham

I cannot believe a professed Christian does not know that!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 918488


You'd be surprised.. I took college classes on the Old Testament. The amount of knowledge that never makes it to the pulpit is astounding.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:39 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
There is a lot of IDIOTS on this site and some of the mods(Trinity)who think Muslims are their enemies...THERE IS A SILENT WAR GOING ON AND IT IS AGAINST YOU NOT MUSLIMS...SOME WILL NEVER EVOLVE
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:41 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
No... I don't know that.

Incorrect.
 Quoting: ScrumpTheTexan



^^ This.

The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, is not the same god the muslims worship.

You need to stay out of those caves...nitrogen is fogging up your brain.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:42 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
The Quran is clear that Allah hath no son. Not the same God as Jesus's Father.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 985288


JeHoVaH/YAHWE/YHVH/ADONAI/ELOHIM HAS ALSO NO SON.

Judaism teaches so.
Rabbis even say it is ridiculous to even think he might need a "son", for what purpose if he is almighty ?.

You are refering to your narrow christian view, which is by the way not the major religion at all if you count christians vs. Muslims + Jews ..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248126


I don't base my beliefs on popularity, I base them on Truth. The path is narrow.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2011 11:42 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?
No... I don't know that.

Incorrect.
 Quoting: ScrumpTheTexan



^^ This.

The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, is not the same god the muslims worship.

You need to stay out of those caves...nitrogen is fogging up your brain.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1184364


Really?

That's funny.. Islam is listed under the Abrahamic Religions as a subclass along with Judaism and Christianity. Keep drinking the kool-aid though. Just a few more drops will do.
FloridaCaveDiver (OP)

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01/29/2011 11:43 PM
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Re: Do you know the Muslim God (allah) is the SAME GOD as the Christian and Jewish God?

Yeah, all that kinda contradicts the sacrifices demanded of Abraham to kill his son Isaac, not to mention all the sacrifices and burnt offerings offered up in the Holy of Holies... But perhaps that was an enlightened God who had seen the error of his ways.. oh.. wait..
 Quoting: Anonymous Cowards ..various


[link to www.evilbible.com]

only some collected examples of the God in the "old testament" :


God now commands that all women must have health hazardous labors for Eve ate the fruit. In no way shape or form is it just that I must pay for the sins of my ancestors. Genesis 3:16

God caused sibling rivalry by favoring Abel over Cain, with absolutely no attempt at justification. This act of favoritism led to Abel’s death. Genesis 4:3-5

Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the planet save eight of them.

God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her master though she does not want to. Genesis 16:7-9

Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children included) simply because they were supposedly homosexual.

Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that the Lord slew him. How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn’t give us this bit of information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord. Genesis 38:7

Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister in law.

Exodus 12:29 God repeatedly tells Moses exactly what calamity he will next visit upon the Egyptians if the Pharaoh does not allow the Israelites to be set free from slavery. Then he tells Moses (also repeatedly) that he will harden Pharaoh’s heart, so that he will refuse to allow the Israelites to go, thus bringing a calamity upon his own people, as well as showing him the awesome power of the Israelites’ Lord. This occurs over and over, bringing calamity upon calamity upon the Egyptian people. What is troubling about this verse is that when god “hardens the pharaoh’s heart” he is interfering with the Pharaoh’s free will and ultimately bringing punishment on the Egyptians for something they are not responsible for. As a final punishment god decides to kill all the first born of Egypt. The lord reduced himself to murdering innocent kids when he could have simply freed the Israelites himself with his “omnipotent” power.

God punishes children for the sins of their fathers, unto the third and fourth generations. Punishing a child for the sins of their ancestors is not very just. Exodus 20:5&34:7

God endorses slavery. He even set up laws as to how slavery was to be carried out, and goes as far as Okaying beating them. Exodus 21:2-6

God sanctioned the selling of ones daughter. How can any being tell another to literally sell their child into slavery? Disgusting! Exodus 21:7

Exodus 22:18 God orders the death of witches, sorceresses and anyone who practices magic. Sadly enough, this verse was justification for the Inquisition.

Exodus 32:27 God ordered to be killed, 3,000 Israelites for no greater crime than worshipping a golden calf. I don’t know about you but death is a pretty harsh fucking punishment.

Leviticus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents and death for adultery. Gee, with these types of laws the population should be almost nil by now.

Once again god is a homophobe, or at the very least, a bigot. Leviticus 20:13

Handicapped people must not approach the altar. Leviticus 21:16-23

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shill ye eat.”

Leviticus 27:28-29 God ordered and allowed human sacrifices.

Numbers 16:27 God buries alive Korah and his family.

Numbers 16:35 God killed 250 Levite princes who disagreed with Moses’ leadership. He was so bloodthirsty that he wanted to slay more until he was talked out of it. Later he put a plague upon 14,700 Jews who thought there was something wrong in killing 250 princes.

Numbers 21:1-3 God utterly destroyed the Canaanites at Hormah as a favor to the Jews.

Numbers 21:27-35 God abetted Moses in utterly destroying the Amorites at Heshbon - “…the men, the women, and the little ones.”

Numbers 31:17-18 God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people including children and women. To top it off he commands that the virgins be saved for later raping by Moses’ soldiers.

Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God ordered Moses’ army to “utterly destroy” 60 cities, killing all the women and children within!

Deuteronomy 7:12 God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of seven nations. He even adds, “show no mercy unto them”.

Deuteronomy 20:16 God orders that we kill everything that breathes in the cities that he gives us for an inheritance

A bastard can’t attend church “even to his tenth generation.” As if denying an innocent child rights to worship isn’t cruel. Deuteronomy 23:2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1248126


Hey Hitler. Why don't you STUDY the book instead of cherry picking.
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


Oh wow. Yeah, YOU are sure not indoctrinated now are you. Wow..... The words ARE there... instead of attacking someone and calling him HITLER why don't you explain away all of that next...

Is it just a "silly fun time" to IGNORE the things that don't "work" anymore and only use the convenient stuff.

THIS is why I think ALL religions are totally full of shit and the brainwashed drones that follow them are a direct example of how lame our species really can be.

Hitler.... funny. You are the one that sounds like a Bible Nazi...
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