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Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2

 
A Voice In The Wilderness

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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Two different prophecies. Two different meanings.

One is literal stars, the other is symbolic.
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness


Do you understand that you interjected with something irrelevant? If you can't understand the conversation, just say so, and I'm sure we can all type slower just for you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1265982


Yes, I noticed after the first reply that he was referring to a previous reply without having quoted it. However, his statement alluded to the passage in which the 'stars' are symbolic.

I have explained the meanings of both instances where the 'stars' are found, as such, it is no more irrelevant.


No need to get offended.
The Truth About Thread: The FINAL EVENTS Of Bible Prophecy

"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist." - Martin Luther (Aug. 18, 1520)

"While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's Word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light" (The Great Controversy, p. 527).

"Jesus did not come to change the law, but he came to explain it, and that very fact shows that it remains, for there is no need to explain that which is abrogated." - Charles Spurgeon

"Jesuit Adam Weishaupt established the modern version of the Illuminati specifically to be a front organization behind which the Jesuits could hide. After being formally abolished by Pope Clement XIV in 1773, the Jesuits used the Illuminati and other organizations to carry out their operations. Thus, the front organizations would be blamed for the trouble caused by the Jesuits."
Bill Hughes (Author of The Secret Terrorists and The Enemy Unmasked)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Revelation

"1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months."

So...what was the purpose of John measuring the temple? I don't understand why the chapter starts this way. There's nothing that I can tell that John would use this information for.
 Quoting: 40Head


He lost his ruler?!?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
1dunno1 the bible doesn't say why he measured it
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1265074


Okay...so, I'm not alone on this. Thanks for backing me up on this, I couldn't find anything about it anywhere!

However...what do you think about this? Is he measuring the temple that was currently standing, or is this indication that a new temple will be built?
 Quoting: 40Head


Go back and very carefully work the context from Rev. 1:1 up to this point. Remember however, that this is a vision here in Rev. 11:1-ff... a vision has no location in time as per some date-time stamp unless that information is also given in the vision itself.

And you ask of 'the temple that was currently standing', without knowing when the Book of the Revelation was given or writen down by this John, we cannot know which temple this is, or even what temple was then currently standing 'real world' at the time this vision was given. It is commonly the tradiation that Rev was written down in 90 A.D. if this be the case then there was no temple of God at Jerusalem standing, it had been destroyed by the Roman Legions some 20 years earlier. This is a temple of God as seen in a vision... that is all the information that is given in that chapter, noting also that no where in that chapter at least is any information given as to what those measurement values were that John measured.

For that matter you would have to even establish by context just who this pronoun, "me" is referring to. As a matter of fact the common method of dividing this entire Book into chapter divisions is highly suspect... as it is in most of the common publishings of the Bible as a whole.

It is quite possible from the context of the vision 'he' is in fact taking measurement of the Temple of God in Heaven and not even any temple on Earth. If so, then it is not a new temple on Earth that 'he' is measuring.

It is entirely possible the parts of book are a Private Key encryption requiring a Private Decryption Key to unlock or decode. I say this because of Rev. 1:1;

"Rev 1:1 KJV The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him [Jesus Christ], to shew unto his [Jesus Christ's] servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he [Jesus Christ] sent and signified it by his angel [Jesus Christ's angel] unto his [Jesus Christ's] servant John:"

A servant that is a close well trusted household servant will have been given some of the Keys of the house and to the estate. This John is one such servant. The Apostles might well have been given such Keys are given to a Lord's Servants. To them the writing will be a full open revelation as they apply the 'decryption' keys, to other's without the 'decryption keys' it will remain an 'open secret'.

We do not even know, however, that this Servant John, was in fact the Apostle John. Tradition has it that it was, but we now have no way to check out that Tradition as to validity of that tradition's assertion.

By all means continue your study into this book... many have broken themselves upon its riddles and made of themselves to be as False Prophets.
The temple is body Christ
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
The outer court is the physical body of the true believer.
The inner court is the soul of man.
The holy of holies is the Spirit which, for the real Christian.
Christ said He in us, and us in Him.
Eph 2:19-21 talks about the other side of this.
But, there is supposed to be a third temple in Jerusalem before this all starts?
We are the priests who have a continual sacrifice – our own lives. (Rom 12:1, 1 Pet 2:9)
Jesus said to the Jews, “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.” (Mt 23:38, Lk 13:35)
God no longer dwells in temples made with hands. (Acts 7:48, 17:24)
The physical Jews may build a third temple, but the Lord will no longer regard their sacrifices in any physical temple
What unto me is the multitude of your sacrifices? saith Jehovah: I have had enough of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats. (Isa 1:11)
For thou delightest not in sacrifice; else would I give it: Thou hast no pleasure in burnt-offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. (Ps 51:16-17)
God says He will rebuild the tabernacle of David (Acts 15:16), but it is not a physical building
The saints are the temple of God in the New Testament (1 Cor 3:16-17, 1 Cor 6:19, 2 Cor 6:16, Eph 2:19-22)
The only sacrifice that will cease is the lives of those reprobated for taking the mark.
And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (those Christians who take the mark); and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate (they are reprobated by the Holy Spirit); and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate (in Great Tribulation & Day of the Lord) (Dan 9:27)
This is why Jesus said:
15 When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), 16 then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: (Mt 24:15-16)

How could others be so wrong before?
Some information only revealed at the very end - don't blame previous. (Dan 12:9)

Notice in Revelation 11 that the outer court (physical body)
is given unto the nations for 42 months (the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation) just like the Lord turned His hand on His little ones after Jesus was crucified. The first two witnesses (the ten commandments) were broken. Now, in 2 Cor 3:2-3:
2 Ye are our epistle, written in our hearts, known and read of all men; 3 being made manifest that ye are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in tables that are hearts of flesh.

Then after Pentecost, the 12 disciples were sent out in teams of 2 (6 number of man x 2 witnesses)= 12 disciples.
And these two witnesses were also broken (martyred except for John).

And the two witnesses of Revelation are broken/martyred for not taking the mark of the beast in the 2nd half the tribulation period. The allusion is that the outer court (the body of the man) will be trampled under for 42 months.
This is why the Lord alluded in Mt 5:13:
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men.
And that is fulfilled in Revelation 11.
Werd
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Some scholars believe that there is a message being given that has to do with the measurements of the temple. Though no one seems to know what. Some think it was necessary for a hidden code (much like the bible code hidden in the pentatauch) but the same system used in the pentatauch bible code doesn't work for any other book of the bible with such amazing statistical significance.

So no one knows why... I personally feel it is one of those things that will be understood only after the fact.

What that fact is... I can't say...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
The stars are often referring to angels. Satan is called "The morning star"
 Quoting: 40Head


So you understand that you can't take everything in that book literally. Get it now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1265074


Somewhat like the term "stars of hollywood" which by the way comes from the same figure of speech in the Bible.

That said, there are places where the term "stars" is quite literal, in the exact meaning that we would use to label Regulus or Spica. In other places it can have a meaning of 'shooting star', both in literal and figurative meaning. The meteor blazing across the skies is commonly referred to in English use as a 'shooting star' and since sometimes they can actually fall to the earth, the ground, as meteorites, the phrase 'stars of heaven falling unto the earth' could having the same meaning. Yet, the figurative use of the 'stars of hollywood fell upon the Oscars' is another way to handle such a phrase. As to which meaning is the proper on in the context in which it is put, is up to the reader/student to work out... hmmm.. who grades the student's test part in such a case? According to II Tim 2:15, it is God that does the grading of the such a student's "test papers".

Not everything can be taken literally and not everything can be taken as a mere figure of speech or metaphor or such. The student has to decide from the context, both the immediate context as well as the remote, as well as from the context of the entire work, called the Bible. And even then shorthand 'code words' or writing shortcuts can be in use as well.

Every single part of speech comes into play as the student begins and continues to parse its meaning both as to the semantics as well as the syntax (grammar).
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Maybe the temple is the pyramid.
Zerubbabel

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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
You have asked one of the most important questions in the world today. It all sounds relatively innocuous to measure the temple and the worshipers, but in actuality, we are being asked to understand the entire structure and everything that goes on inside it--including the "owner" of the Sanctuary. In reality, an entire book could be written just on this subject. Let me just tell you a few things in a nutshell.

Chapter 40 onward of Ezekiel takes painstaking steps to EXACTLY measure the entire Temple structure. By studying these measurements, we can find some amazing "anomalies". Nowhere in the entire description does it show that the structure, itself, was attached to the earth. It simply sat in place and was designed to "move" just as the thrones were, the chariots were, etc. Inside the structure, there are mysteries that boggle the mind. A "measurement" of these mysterious "objects" takes us on a journey of amazing discovery. I talk about just one of them in my thread called "The Revelation of the Mystery of God". This is just one "measurement" that I made. There are many others--some simply mind blowing.

Then there is the measurement of the worshippers. Of course, this can only be done with the Law of God. It is about a measurement of their CHARACTER. It certainly is NOT about their measurements in "girth or height". The most important aspect of this measuring has to do with the measurement of the "Godhead". Few even WANT to go THERE. The Godhead is the LEAST understood of the entire Temple structure. However, we can make some important statements that give us an idea as to what this COMMAND is leading to. In the final analysis, it is all about TIME. The attributes of the Godhead (and the entire heavenly structure) are, in fact, timeless. "Before Abraham WAS, I AM." We are talking about Omnipresence here. God IS before Abraham, God IS--NOW, and God IS in the future. He is NOT there--then, or here--now; He is there AND here--NOW. Add to that His Omnipotence, and His Omniscience and we get SOME idea about God, and by inference, about His Kingdom. This is why Matt says that there will be wars and....but the end is not yet. The Gospel of the Kingdom must be preached to the whole world first. Nearly the entire world know of the Gospel of Christ. Few make a distinction in the Gospel of the Kingdom. The FINAL understanding will only come with the Latter Rain which is for the fitting up of the saints. God's GLORY will fill the earth and those who have made it a practice to seek God's face will understand FULLY by the appearaing of the Godhead to the people of God.

I am just scratching the surface here, but it is about the "finishing of God" which ends up with a new earth and a new universe--minus the restraints of time and space. Whenever God "finishes" something, it reverberates throughout time and space--just as when Jesus "finished" His work on the cross. The measurement is a finishing work.

To get a "three-dimensional" view of what John says in Rev. 10, you must read Daniel 10 and Ezekiel 10 as well. In all three books, the same heavenly being appears with "essential knowledge". Some scholars place this period in the scriptures as a "parenthetical prophecy" which addresses what goes on between the sounding of the sixth and the seventh angel. At the sounding of the seventh angel, it is all over. The censer is thrown down, mediation is over, probabation has closed and mercy no longer pleads with fallen men. Jesus then lays down His mediatorial robes and takes up His Kingly ones. So, you can see that the command is a VERY important one--just prior to the close of earth's history.
The TRUTH is stranger than FICTION.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
The stars refer to world leaders.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1199925


Please don't speculate.

"The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." Revelation 1:20
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness


While this is a true interpreation or rather identity assignment of the seven stars of the seven golden candlesticks, one cannot then automatically apply that same identification to every single other star or candlestick that is writen in the Book of Rev. In the case you cite, the verse interprets its symbolism right in the verse in which it is written. This is often not the case in many other prophecys, and yet is the case in some of them.

Servant John received this revelation of Jesus Christ, from Jesus Christ's angel.

Rev 1:10 KJV "I [servant John] was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,..." What does this term, "in the Spirit" mean?

IN answer to OP's original question, beside the obvious answer that this way Servant John would know himself what those measurements are, the more extended purpose as to for to what bigger purpose of knowing those measurements, the answer to that question is simply not given in the text.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
JESUS WAS A CARPENTER YOU IDIOTS! OF COURSE HE WAS MEASURING THAT SHIT!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
wow...lots of info here and a lot of different opinions. I appreciate all the time you guys spent on it.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
It means to understand the temple layout. Until 2300 days, then the sanctuary shall be cleansed. you know
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
JESUS WAS A CARPENTER YOU IDIOTS! OF COURSE HE WAS MEASURING THAT SHIT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1259318

He was the Son of God.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Revelation

"1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months."

So...what was the purpose of John measuring the temple? I don't understand why the chapter starts this way. There's nothing that I can tell that John would use this information for.
 Quoting: 40Head


It is a subtle reference to the 144,000, on which Revelation 11 is primarily focused on.

The command to 'measure' points us to the fact that this group is composed of a specific number. "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel" Rev 7:4

Measuring the temple, the altar, and the worshipers all mean the same thing. "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" 1 Corinthians 3:16, "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Corinthians 6:19

The command for John to go and measure the worshipers is an indication of a special group of saints who 'measure up' to God's desired standard, the 144,000. They are described in Revelation 14:5 as "without fault before the throne of God.". They are one of the two witnesses of Revelation 11 and they are called by God to do a special work during the time of the final global crisis.

It is this special group which will shine with the brightness of God's glory and will give the proclamation, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils... Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues!" Revelation 18:2,4


This may make very little sense unless you do a deeper study on who the 144,000 are and what exactly happens in Revelation 11.
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness


"1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months."

Measure with this reed those who worship there. One would expect the verb "count" to have been used in speaking of "those who worship there", and I saw the number of them, I counted the number of them... etc.

Further more, the 144,000 are not explicity mentioned at all in chapter 11. So, then who are these worshippers that Servant John is to measure (not explicitly "to count" nor "to number") with this reed? There is a possibly that at least some of those worshipping are the people who have been gathered together to meet the Lord in the air at the sound of the last trump, and so ever be with their Lord, where ever He goes they go... if He goes to the temple in Heaven, then they go with Him to the temple of in Heaven.

Whereas Rev 7:4 says explicitly, "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel" Rev 7:4

These are not the entire number of all who have been "sealed up until the day of redemption, sealed by the gift of the Holy Spirit" that number is unknowable and not at all revealed. Rev 7:4 deals only with a number of those sealed for a special purpose, and only those of the tribes of the children of Israel, Yet, read which tribes of Israel are chosen for such sealing, notice that the Tribe of Ephraim and the Tribe of Dan are not mentioned among those 144,000 that are sealed for this special sealing. Also notice how among those sealed 144,000 how 12,000 are of the Tribe of Joseph, and 12,000 are of the Tribe of Levi, and neither Joseph, nor Levi were formerly counted among the 12 Tribes of the Children of Israel.
bed
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
By questioning you are following the human aspect of joy to be loved by the spirit. You want to understand the angel and not the appearance of John measuring.

Picture John, and you can se how it was relevant for his pursuit to God. Only he heard the calling from the angel to measure the temple. Only he could have faith to follow the summons to carry the knowledge of the physical existence into the spiritual world. His knowledge and confirmation created a binding between the building and the spiritual world.

We are all a part of the "Akashi" records. Each human brings with them another part of knowledge God searches to recognicze the complete human experience.


measuring made the temple complete.
"The earth is mother of us all, for she is just; but you, because you are unjust have pretended that she is your mother alone; and if you do not stop, I will not permit you to remain upon her."

[link to www.livius.org]
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
JESUS WAS A CARPENTER YOU IDIOTS! OF COURSE HE WAS MEASURING THAT SHIT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1259318

He was the Son of God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 914377


So am I ! But I still got a job too .
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
The amount of the now 6.8 billion that shall inherit the earth. I take it the gentile area isn't gonna be prime real estate.
 Quoting: EL_Nino68


"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." Revelation 21:1

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." Matthew 5:5


Very few of the current population will inherit the New Earth. Unfortunately.
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness


Man's numbers may well grow to 100 Billion before that Day of the Lord comes.. for all any of us really know, and it is idle speculation as to just how many alive now really are born of the gift of the Holy Spirit, God only knows.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Very few of the current population will inherit the New Earth. Unfortunately.
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness


Revelation 7:9
After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Read the 40th chapter of ezekial's vision and it coincidedes.
 Quoting: ~~Moriel~~


Notice in Ezekial the location given for the temple that Ezekial is told to measure, also note its measurements, also note the material it is said to be made up, and how it is furnished. A textual Parallel, yet not perhaps a textual identity.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Very few of the current population will inherit the New Earth. Unfortunately.
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness


Revelation 7:9
After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1264829


As Jesus said, God wants many many people in heaven. Everybody in fact.

“If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them wanders away, what will he do? Won’t he leave the ninety-nine others on the hills and go out to search for the one that is lost? And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he will rejoice over it more than over the ninety-nine that didn’t wander away! In the same way, it is not my heavenly Father’s will that even one of these little ones should perish.
-- Matthew 18:12-14
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Don't beg, it's unseemly. I'm not speculating, I'm telling you straight out, the stars of the heavens that are dashed to the earth by the dragon are world leaders who sided with the Nazis. The part you've quoted is different, but a thickheaded nerd like you has very little understanding of such things.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1199925



You ARE speculating friend for your conclusions are not based on anything in the Bible. I advise you to look at my previous two posts.

One last reference to 'stars' in Revelation is in chapter 12:3-9. Here, John uses symbols, just like in every chapter, to describe in human words what he is seeing.

"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth." Rev 12:4

This verse is explained further, in verse 9:

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Revelation 1:20 further assures us that 'stars' in prophecy represent angels. In the instance of Revelation 12, the stars are the 1/3 of angels that Satan deceived and caused to make them fall with himself and be driven out of heaven on account of their sin.

The Bible explains itself in every situation, in every prophecy. Speculation gets us nowhere but false theories and disappointments.
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness


As to the 1/3rd of "the stars of heaven" in Rev 12:4, the Dragon, a created spiritual entity, and one of the bene elohiym (among many) draws out (apostasia) 1/3rd of the other bene elohiym (for instance of the Book of Job) and casts them to the earth. These bene elohiym being also themselves created entities, not celestial stars of the night sky. Among these 1/3rd of the bene elohiym are some who were the bene elohiym of Genesis 6 not all of those were bound at the time of the Flood or afterwards. Even Jude makes reference to these.

One has to consider every single instance or occurance of the word "star" or "stars" in the entire Bible to discover all the various meanings in which these two words are used in their contexts. And every single occurance of these two terms in the Book of the Revelation to discover the various ways and meanings in which they are used in that particular Book.

While some will merely speculate, others will form tentative theories of interpretation and tentative theories of understanding from their own study which they will revise and revise and revise upon further study of the texts and more experience in life. When you see someone raise someone else from the dead who has been dead for three nights and days and beginning to stink of decay, then perhaps that person has pretty much come to be approved of God in his own studied conclusions and opinions.
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
You'll find some parallels in Ezekiel 40-43.
 Quoting: Life and Love


I believe Ezekiel wanted to record the exact measurements and details so that the temple could be rebuilt when it was destroyed (according to God's original specifications).
Be Still and know that I am God.
-Psalms 46:10
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2011 12:32 AM
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
You have asked one of the most important questions in the world today. It all sounds relatively innocuous to measure the temple and the worshipers, but in actuality, we are being asked to understand the entire structure and everything that goes on inside it--including the "owner" of the Sanctuary. In reality, an entire book could be written just on this subject. Let me just tell you a few things in a nutshell.

Chapter 40 onward of Ezekiel takes painstaking steps to EXACTLY measure the entire Temple structure. By studying these measurements, we can find some amazing "anomalies". Nowhere in the entire description does it show that the structure, itself, was attached to the earth. It simply sat in place and was designed to "move" just as the thrones were, the chariots were, etc. Inside the structure, there are mysteries that boggle the mind. A "measurement" of these mysterious "objects" takes us on a journey of amazing discovery. I talk about just one of them in my thread called "The Revelation of the Mystery of God". This is just one "measurement" that I made. There are many others--some simply mind blowing.

Then there is the measurement of the worshippers. Of course, this can only be done with the Law of God. It is about a measurement of their CHARACTER. It certainly is NOT about their measurements in "girth or height". The most important aspect of this measuring has to do with the measurement of the "Godhead". Few even WANT to go THERE. The Godhead is the LEAST understood of the entire Temple structure. However, we can make some important statements that give us an idea as to what this COMMAND is leading to. In the final analysis, it is all about TIME. The attributes of the Godhead (and the entire heavenly structure) are, in fact, timeless. "Before Abraham WAS, I AM." We are talking about Omnipresence here. God IS before Abraham, God IS--NOW, and God IS in the future. He is NOT there--then, or here--now; He is there AND here--NOW. Add to that His Omnipotence, and His Omniscience and we get SOME idea about God, and by inference, about His Kingdom. This is why Matt says that there will be wars and....but the end is not yet. The Gospel of the Kingdom must be preached to the whole world first. Nearly the entire world know of the Gospel of Christ. Few make a distinction in the Gospel of the Kingdom. The FINAL understanding will only come with the Latter Rain which is for the fitting up of the saints. God's GLORY will fill the earth and those who have made it a practice to seek God's face will understand FULLY by the appearaing of the Godhead to the people of God.

I am just scratching the surface here, but it is about the "finishing of God" which ends up with a new earth and a new universe--minus the restraints of time and space. Whenever God "finishes" something, it reverberates throughout time and space--just as when Jesus "finished" His work on the cross. The measurement is a finishing work.

To get a "three-dimensional" view of what John says in Rev. 10, you must read Daniel 10 and Ezekiel 10 as well. In all three books, the same heavenly being appears with "essential knowledge". Some scholars place this period in the scriptures as a "parenthetical prophecy" which addresses what goes on between the sounding of the sixth and the seventh angel. At the sounding of the seventh angel, it is all over. The censer is thrown down, mediation is over, probabation has closed and mercy no longer pleads with fallen men. Jesus then lays down His mediatorial robes and takes up His Kingly ones. So, you can see that the command is a VERY important one--just prior to the close of earth's history.
 Quoting: Zerubbabel


^^^ This too ^^^

We don't really even know what that Reed was except that it was like a Rod, and that it was to be used as some standard of measurement.

The above quoutation is deeper than most want to go, with their little concept of some white haired god sitting on some throne in outer space or away on business in some distant part of the universe 10 billion light years away.

What you have written is very deep... I know in part where you are coming from however, it has taken me the better part of 50 years to even begin to see what you are talking about.

We, mankind, are yet in the Sixth Day of Creation... we have not yet entered that everlasting Seventh Day.

Now it is as Apostle Paul wrote:

"1Co 13:8-13 KJV Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. (9) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. (10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (11) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. (12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2011 12:37 AM
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
JESUS WAS A CARPENTER YOU IDIOTS! OF COURSE HE WAS MEASURING THAT SHIT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1259318

He was the Son of God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 914377


So am I ! But I still got a job too .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1259318


And so was Adam, a son of God, and his job was to till and dress the garden, he too still had a job to do.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2011 12:40 AM
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Very few of the current population will inherit the New Earth. Unfortunately.
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness


Revelation 7:9
After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1264829


^^^ and this ^^^ not merely 144,000 out from among the Tribes of Israel.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2011 12:41 AM
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Revelation

"1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months."

So...what was the purpose of John measuring the temple? I don't understand why the chapter starts this way. There's nothing that I can tell that John would use this information for.
 Quoting: 40Head


It is a subtle reference to the 144,000, on which Revelation 11 is primarily focused on.

The command to 'measure' points us to the fact that this group is composed of a specific number. "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel" Rev 7:4

Measuring the temple, the altar, and the worshipers all mean the same thing. "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" 1 Corinthians 3:16, "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Corinthians 6:19

The command for John to go and measure the worshipers is an indication of a special group of saints who 'measure up' to God's desired standard, the 144,000. They are described in Revelation 14:5 as "without fault before the throne of God.". They are one of the two witnesses of Revelation 11 and they are called by God to do a special work during the time of the final global crisis.

It is this special group which will shine with the brightness of God's glory and will give the proclamation, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils... Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues!" Revelation 18:2,4


This may make very little sense unless you do a deeper study on who the 144,000 are and what exactly happens in Revelation 11.
 Quoting: A Voice In The Wilderness


Actually, the 144,000 are BOTH of the "two witnesses," divided up as the House of Israel (aka Ephraim) and the House of Judah (the Jews).
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2011 12:47 AM
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
JESUS WAS A CARPENTER YOU IDIOTS! OF COURSE HE WAS MEASURING THAT SHIT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1259318

He was the Son of God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 914377


So am I ! But I still got a job too .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1259318


And so was Adam, a son of God, and his job was to till and dress the garden, he too still had a job to do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1144159


We are all if we are reborn. God is not silent. Sounds crazy, but it is true.
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02/15/2011 12:50 AM
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
bump
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2011 12:54 AM
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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
Actually, the 144,000 are BOTH of the "two witnesses," divided up as the House of Israel (aka Ephraim) and the House of Judah (the Jews).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1265927


I am searching through this reference for the occurance of the word Epharaim (or its spelling varieties) and must not finding it listed. Am I missing it?

Rev 7:2-10 KJV And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, (3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. (4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (5) Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. (6) Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. (7) Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. (8) Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

(9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; (10) And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Zerubbabel

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02/15/2011 01:20 AM

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Re: Bible Folks - Why Did GOD Tell John To Measure The Temple? Revelation 11:1-2
You have asked one of the most important questions in the world today. It all sounds relatively innocuous to measure the temple and the worshipers, but in actuality, we are being asked to understand the entire structure and everything that goes on inside it--including the "owner" of the Sanctuary. In reality, an entire book could be written just on this subject. Let me just tell you a few things in a nutshell.

Chapter 40 onward of Ezekiel takes painstaking steps to EXACTLY measure the entire Temple structure. By studying these measurements, we can find some amazing "anomalies". Nowhere in the entire description does it show that the structure, itself, was attached to the earth. It simply sat in place and was designed to "move" just as the thrones were, the chariots were, etc. Inside the structure, there are mysteries that boggle the mind. A "measurement" of these mysterious "objects" takes us on a journey of amazing discovery. I talk about just one of them in my thread called "The Revelation of the Mystery of God". This is just one "measurement" that I made. There are many others--some simply mind blowing.

Then there is the measurement of the worshippers. Of course, this can only be done with the Law of God. It is about a measurement of their CHARACTER. It certainly is NOT about their measurements in "girth or height". The most important aspect of this measuring has to do with the measurement of the "Godhead". Few even WANT to go THERE. The Godhead is the LEAST understood of the entire Temple structure. However, we can make some important statements that give us an idea as to what this COMMAND is leading to. In the final analysis, it is all about TIME. The attributes of the Godhead (and the entire heavenly structure) are, in fact, timeless. "Before Abraham WAS, I AM." We are talking about Omnipresence here. God IS before Abraham, God IS--NOW, and God IS in the future. He is NOT there--then, or here--now; He is there AND here--NOW. Add to that His Omnipotence, and His Omniscience and we get SOME idea about God, and by inference, about His Kingdom. This is why Matt says that there will be wars and....but the end is not yet. The Gospel of the Kingdom must be preached to the whole world first. Nearly the entire world know of the Gospel of Christ. Few make a distinction in the Gospel of the Kingdom. The FINAL understanding will only come with the Latter Rain which is for the fitting up of the saints. God's GLORY will fill the earth and those who have made it a practice to seek God's face will understand FULLY by the appearaing of the Godhead to the people of God.

I am just scratching the surface here, but it is about the "finishing of God" which ends up with a new earth and a new universe--minus the restraints of time and space. Whenever God "finishes" something, it reverberates throughout time and space--just as when Jesus "finished" His work on the cross. The measurement is a finishing work.

To get a "three-dimensional" view of what John says in Rev. 10, you must read Daniel 10 and Ezekiel 10 as well. In all three books, the same heavenly being appears with "essential knowledge". Some scholars place this period in the scriptures as a "parenthetical prophecy" which addresses what goes on between the sounding of the sixth and the seventh angel. At the sounding of the seventh angel, it is all over. The censer is thrown down, mediation is over, probabation has closed and mercy no longer pleads with fallen men. Jesus then lays down His mediatorial robes and takes up His Kingly ones. So, you can see that the command is a VERY important one--just prior to the close of earth's history.
 Quoting: Zerubbabel


^^^ This too ^^^

We don't really even know what that Reed was except that it was like a Rod, and that it was to be used as some standard of measurement.

The above quoutation is deeper than most want to go, with their little concept of some white haired god sitting on some throne in outer space or away on business in some distant part of the universe 10 billion light years away.

What you have written is very deep... I know in part where you are coming from however, it has taken me the better part of 50 years to even begin to see what you are talking about.

We, mankind, are yet in the Sixth Day of Creation... we have not yet entered that everlasting Seventh Day.

Now it is as Apostle Paul wrote:

"1Co 13:8-13 KJV Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. (9) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. (10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (11) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. (12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1144159


Actually, I did a study on the "reed like unto a rod" and was boggled by it for a very specific reason. Science has only recently begun to understand that there are other dimensions and that they are at "plancks length". In other words, they are so close to us that we cannot see them because they are only about the width of an atom. The scriptures speak of the Kingdom as existing in an entirely different time/space frame than ours--another dimension, if you will. Now what the concordance says about the measuring rod is that it is a "line of flax" or, more appropriately "comminuting linen". A further study shows that we are being asked to "atomize" (the concordance's word, not mine) the entire structure. We finally get the answer to the question, "How many angels can you fit on the head of a pin?" The answer is, ALL OF THEM--including the Kingdom of God!! How appropriate it also is that science has theorized that there are seven of these dimensions in addition to our own four. They are called "Calaba-Yau spaces". Seven dimensions, seven fruits of the spirit, seven "words" spoken at creation--for first there was ONE, then TWO (father and son), then three (which comprises the seven words) and these seven words/worlds are found at every single point in space/time and uphold the entire creation. This is what the measuring rod is telling us. The Kingdom of God is no further away than the diameter of an atom. Yet, science says that it would take a type III civilization (able to harness the energy of a galaxy) to access these dimensions. We are not even a type I civilization yet (harnessing the energy of a planet). I know I'm getting a bit deep here, but this is what the measuring rod is really telling us--and much, much more.
The TRUTH is stranger than FICTION.

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