Is the Rapture supposed to happen before or after Israel is attacked on all sides by her enemies?

at the last trumpet tares gathered first

There is no rapture, you have been deliberately lied too. the thugs started changing the new testament and teachings to the churches in the late 1880's and continued by Scoffield or whatever his name was.


When the earth is in bad enough shape it will be evacuated. That is your rapture. They remove the children of God whcih has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGIONS OR ISRAEL first, then the kids not old enough to decide for themselves if they want eternal life and then anybody left according to the time left before they must leave due to the conditions getting terrible.

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Why assume it is correct and why not assume it isn't taught in the Bible? Start thinking for yourself instead of assuming the teachings of Hal Lindsey and self proclaimed experts on prophecy. The Great trib is a past event. Happened in 70 AD.
"This generation shall not pass away til all these things be fulfilled." HE was talking about that present generation and not 2000 years later.

by turning the other cheek and accepting the attack all christians and jews will be raptured orin laymans terms when you die you will go to heaven

According to 'Aag...mydinnerjacket' the Iranian Pres. it will be after the 12th Imam shows up, and for that to occur, the whole world must be in a state of 'fire and brimstone', total chaos and drenched in blood.

Sorry to tell you the rapture is bullshit.

Ya - true - the rapture as outlined in that 'Left Behind' series is NOT Scriptural.

I truly believe we are taken before all hell breaks loose I am trying to find the verse right now but Jesus says something like " taken" instead of "through" I'll post the verse soon as I find it.. but if you think about it .. why would god the father leave all the believers here on earth when hell breaks loose..... Because he won't ... Pre Tribulation Rapture.. so to answer In Jesus Name we will be taken or raptured before israel is attacked on all sides .. but BEFORE that happens there needs to be the million man army to the east lined up on israels border and my friends That is CHINA. so when china gets pissed at israel then we know it is Close... Until then Keep your faith.. Love all faiths and Neighbors as Christ Loved the CHurch... it is not our place to judge other peoples beliefs only god can judge..

p.s. still gonna post the verse

Rapture is not a true part of christian tradition. it is a protestant fabrication.

verse 1

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." -Revelation 3:10

See That verse sounds like pre trib rapture to me

The "word of my patience" in Revelation 3:10 is the Word of God. Here we have God's promise that because we have kept HIS WORD concerning salvation, i.e., because we have OBEYED the Gospel, He will keep us "from the hour of temptation

You may need to refer to the scriptures below to follow this!

This phrase caught my attention in Revelation 9;
the HOUR and DAY and MONTH and YEAR

I wondered why such a disturbing event as 1/3 of mankind being killed would be described in the above order of timing, so here is what I see in this.
Using Daniel 9
The round up of Jews began shortly after MIDNIGHT 14 MAY 1941 / Israel became a nation MIDNIGHT 14 MAY 1948
Conclusion; 12 + 14 + 5 +11 = (12 a.m.- 14 day- 5 month- 11 year 2011.....

These numbers add up to (42) being a very important end times number.
The fact that the round up of Jews, and the birth of Israel was at the same times and dates causes me caution that this same date and time is when Satan will make his move on Christians in 2011.


The beginning of the holocaust!
Now things are interesting, 12+14+5+11+ 1941 = 1972 The Yom Kippur war [link to www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org]


The rebirth of Israel;
12+14+5+11+1948 = 1979 Egypt Israel peace treaty
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

All 4 dates concerning Israel are the same 7 year difference
12+14+5+11 + 1941 = 1972 1979 Egypt Israel peace treaty
12+14+5+11 + 1948 = 1979 - 1972 The Yom Kippur war
= 7 years


I don’t have the answer for the number 42 except that it divides by 6 which makes 7 !
As I said, you will receive the answer when I receive it but these dates are very very important to watch!





Revelation 9

Then the sixth angel sounded: And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone. By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths. For their power is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm.
But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.


DANIEL 9

To seal up vision and prophecy, May 14, 1941 “The first round up of Jews began shortly after midnight!
And to anoint the Most Holy.
“ Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command < May 14, 1948 – MIDNIGHT! , Lyar 6 Hebrew
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; (7 weeks =1941 to 1948)
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
“ And after the sixty-two weeks < May 14, 1948 to May 13, 2010 (OR AFTER!!!)
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; < God is not selfish, this is for us!
And the people of the prince who is to come < May 14, 2010 ?

Read the link below; I am NOT declaring any events on behalf of God. These are the facts and you must make provision for your own soul! I DO NOT KNOW WHAT DAY AFTER IS! Only God knows the timing, I PRESENT are only the facts; below is the report for May 14, 2010

[link to www.upf.org]

Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. < Christians are the sanctuary
The end of it shall be with a flood, < THE GREAT TRIBULATION
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; (a one year lie)
But in the middle of the week ( “sometime around 6 months” )
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. ( Christianity will be outlawed! )
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” < He is cast alive into the lake of fire!

2nd Thessalonians 2:7 is incontrovertible PROOF that the Rapture must precede the Tribulation! There can be NO other Person for "He" than the Holy Spirit. Also, the events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ are irreconcilably different with the events concerning the Rapture--solid PROOF that the Bible teaches a Pretribulation Rapture! Some ignorant people today are claiming that the Rapture doctrine didn't exist until recent centuries. That is absurd! We are reading the exact same Words of God today which the Apostle Paul penned nearly 2,000 years ago! It's not a question of history, but of faith in the precious Words of God

SORRY I kind of went off on this.... I felt pulled from the holy spirit to lay this out

same time

im not a pre-trib rapturist.... but i think the churches of philadelphia and smyrna have a different fate than the others.

also, don't mistake a country for a nation. in Revelation, nation means 'ethnos' or tribe. who today is the house of Israel?


.

the fake messiah must come first before The Day of the Lord.


Rapture for Dummies




.

How could the mark of the beast be implemented if there's so many christians against it?

No SHit LoL

Because All of the " Church " IS GONE or RAPTURED

but don't get me wrong .. there will still be 144,000 saved AFTER the Rapture of the church.... Now to clear up the Second coming and the rapture .. During the rapture Christ is in the clouds bringing us up but he does not come back until the end of the 7 years and that is called the 2nd coming of Christ..... because during the rapture he does not make himself known... for he comes in the twinkle of an eye like a thief in the night

op let me first say that the new testament is a lie. jesus is the god of the heathen. (other nations)

here is the reason he was created:

Isaiah 40:17
All NATIONS before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and VANITY.

Psalms 147
19. He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto ISRAEL.

20. He hath not dealt so with ANY NATION: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye Yah.

now i will try and explain the endtime events the best i can using scripture and not feelings like others do.

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The Most High Has Pardoned Israel
(no jesus needed)

Deuteronomy 4

29. But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

30. When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

31. (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.


Jeremiah 23

7. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

8. But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.


Isaiah 44

21. Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22. I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.


The Most High Returns

Daniel 7

9. I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


King David (or seed of)

13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


Isaiah 66

15. For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (ufo's?)

20. And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

21. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.


Isaiah 10

20. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

21. The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.

22. For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.


Other Nations Can Cleve (Join Israel)
Those Who Serve The Most High ONLY!!!

Isaiah 56

6. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7. Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

8. The Lord GOD, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.


Isaiah 49

22. Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.

23. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.



Jeremiah 50

4. In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.

5. They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.

8. Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldeans, and be as the he goats before the flocks.

9. For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country: and they shall set themselves in array against her; from thence she shall be taken: their arrows shall be as of a mighty expert man; none shall return in vain. (judgement comes when all are safe in the land.)


Psalm 143

9. Deliver me, O LORD, from mine enemies: I flee unto thee to hide me.


Isaiah 26
20. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. (if they were in heaven, why would they have to hide?)


Flee Babylon and Come Home
Zechariah 2

6. Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.

7. Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.

8. For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

9. For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.

11. And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.


Jeremiah 51

5. For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel.

6. Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.

9. We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies.

10. The LORD hath brought forth our righteousness: come, and let us declare in Zion the work of the LORD our God.

11. Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.



Judgement Is Coming
Isaiah 13

11. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

15. Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. (if you stay behind you DIE!)

16. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.


Isaiah 27

11. When the boughs thereof are withered, they shall be broken off: the women come, and set them on fire: for it is a people of no understanding: therefore he that made them will not have mercy on them, and he that formed them will shew them no favour.


Pole Shift

Isaiah 24

1. Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

20. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

21. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

22. And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.


Isaiah 2

19. And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.


Isaiah 13

10. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

13. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.


Now after reading this, do you see any mention of a rapture?
Now lets examine this. If there is a pre-trib rapture, why would Israel have to flee and all the other nations have to return Israel?

If there is a post-trib rapture, how can all the other nations return Israel when the world and nations would have been destroyed?
How would they make it there after a pole shift, roads destroyed, no airports, no phone service, no internet, no gas stations, mountains thrown down, one stone upon another etc.?
Also famine, sword and pestilence?!?

So it only makes sense that Israel and the other nations that cleve to them would have to LEAVE BEFORE the judgement.
There is so much more proof there is no rapture but I don't want to overwhelm you any more then I did.

Jesus is a BIG LIE created by satan himself!
Most christians and others will believe that the so-called anti-christ is the bad guy. If you think about it, if there is no jesus, then he would be anti-christ.

All religions are LIES to deceive you. They are demonizing the middle east so when a black King sits on his throne, you will think he is a muslim when he is really the King of Israel.

A BLACK MAN!!!

Ezekiel 37
21. And say unto them, Thus saith Yah Elohim; Behold, I WILL TAKE the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22. And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

23. Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their Elohim.

24. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: AND MY SERVANT DAVID SHALL BE THEIR PRINCE FOR EVER.

... the 'wicked' are the only ones that are 'raptured'...

"one will be left and one will be taken" funny people assume that its reffering to the "taken" as the good people and the ones left as the bad. In the bible when it says "taken away" almost always means bad people are killed. for instance in the story of noah the people not on the boat where taken away. You want to be the one "left" alive not the one taken away

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The pulling is your own imagination.

Holy spirit always pulls never pushes

You are decieved. You think the Bible is wrong and the Urantia book is right?

Oh, and it is THE LOVE of money that is the root of all evil, not money in itself. So you may want to correct that in your sig.

Right or Wrong, Real or Not...

...if it happens, I am going straight to Wal-Mart after the Rapture.

It will be damned peaceful, that's for sure.
Better yet, I bet I feel like hitting Slappy Mac's for those fries. Assuming I can get the cooker working. And guessing that I don't burn the place down by accident.

Oh well. If it does, I won't worry about it, there's a Sonic down the street.

Good news though, the Rapture will probably only leave me, and a shitload of BAR Associates, Politicians, and Bankers.

Guess what hunting season starts then?
Between the chocolate malts, french fries, and Wal-Mart mixed with hunting season and boatloads of free ammunition....

It's gonna be a GOOD Rapture!

Where do you get this crap from?