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SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)

 
Gabriel

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07/09/2012 12:26 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Carrington Event sketch from 1859.... just as a reference


[link to science.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: Gabriel


Reminds me of a Chinese Dragon Batman.
 Quoting: El Quisqueyano


It really doesn't look that impressive, does it? It all really happens sub-surface. Bam!
 Quoting: SpiderJones


or helped by a conducive set of factors in space that where present in 1859.
shadasonic

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07/09/2012 12:38 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
check out the 48hr mpeg on the AIA 4500 spectrum. 1520 seems to be growing substantially!!
[link to sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: mtn_mang


I thought it might die down, but definitely looks to be growing. Wonder if that middle will deteriorate and we end up with super gigantor
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” – Carl Sagan
shadasonic

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07/09/2012 12:38 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Carrington Event sketch from 1859.... just as a reference


[link to science.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: Gabriel


Very cool find Gabe!
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” – Carl Sagan
SnakeBite

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07/09/2012 01:13 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Hello all!:D I am BRAND SPANKING NEW to this forum, but I have been watching for about a week now, since july 3rd! You guys have brought me a whole new level of excitement, and a yearning to learn more about what is going on, especially with the sun! Now i may not know much at all (or anything for that matter) regarding the sun and what it is doing right now, but i have been trying my hardest to learn over the past week, (i can get the jist of some of the graphs when they go up and down, especially the 1 minute GOES xray flux:D) I LOVE THIS PLACE and the people in here seem to be really awesome. I just want to thank you ALL for all the amazing hard work and info you put here, otherwise i would never have known what i do now:D. Please keep up the amazing work, as i look forward everyday to coming here and reading the new posts! Thanks again guys. -Snake
 Quoting: SnakeBite


hi Hey Snakebite- welcome, I follow this thread almost every day, sometimes I make comment, but mostly I learn from the wizards here. GLP is very often laugh-out-loud funny, but this thread has some serious sun worshippers!
 Quoting: SpiderJones


hi Hi Spider :D, Very glad to be here, and to learn from these wizards of the sun:P Ive seen some pretty funny stuff browsing all of GLP but when i come here, everything is relevant and minute by minute up to date, LOVE IT. Cant wait to see what gigantor brings ushiding. Im just wondering if anyone could clear up the Magnetometer for me, What exactly is it measuring?? Heres the link (although i know you all have it :P) [link to www.swpc.noaa.gov] Thanks guys!

Last Edited by SnakeBite on 07/09/2012 01:14 PM
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 01:23 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Hello all!:D I am BRAND SPANKING NEW to this forum, but I have been watching for about a week now, since july 3rd! You guys have brought me a whole new level of excitement, and a yearning to learn more about what is going on, especially with the sun! Now i may not know much at all (or anything for that matter) regarding the sun and what it is doing right now, but i have been trying my hardest to learn over the past week, (i can get the jist of some of the graphs when they go up and down, especially the 1 minute GOES xray flux:D) I LOVE THIS PLACE and the people in here seem to be really awesome. I just want to thank you ALL for all the amazing hard work and info you put here, otherwise i would never have known what i do now:D. Please keep up the amazing work, as i look forward everyday to coming here and reading the new posts! Thanks again guys. -Snake
 Quoting: SnakeBite


hi Hey Snakebite- welcome, I follow this thread almost every day, sometimes I make comment, but mostly I learn from the wizards here. GLP is very often laugh-out-loud funny, but this thread has some serious sun worshippers!
 Quoting: SpiderJones


hi Hi Spider :D, Very glad to be here, and to learn from these wizards of the sun:P Ive seen some pretty funny stuff browsing all of GLP but when i come here, everything is relevant and minute by minute up to date, LOVE IT. Cant wait to see what gigantor brings ushiding. Im just wondering if anyone could clear up the Magnetometer for me, What exactly is it measuring?? Heres the link (although i know you all have it :P) [link to www.swpc.noaa.gov] Thanks guys!
 Quoting: SnakeBite


Snakebite ~ magnometer is a tool that measures magnetic stength.

The mangnetogram (what you are referring to) "is a plot showing the amplitude of one or more vector components of a magnetic field versus space or time. Solar magnetograms are a graphic representation of solar magnetic field strengths and polarity."

Here is a link that defines many solar terms (I use it a lot just to TRY & keep up with these guys wink)

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 01:28 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
The Ms and Ns represented at the bottom of the graph are Midnight and Noon UTC
NiNzrez (OP)

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07/09/2012 01:35 PM

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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Carrington Event sketch from 1859.... just as a reference


[link to science.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: Gabriel


Reminds me of a Chinese Dragon Batman.
 Quoting: El Quisqueyano


It really doesn't look that impressive, does it? It all really happens sub-surface. Bam!
 Quoting: SpiderJones


or helped by a conducive set of factors in space that where present in 1859.
 Quoting: Gabriel


+1
Solar Alerts Blog
[link to mysolaralerts.blogspot.com]

Join Me On The GLP SOLAR WATCH Thread
Thread: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Thread: Magnetic Field Deficiency Syndrome- MAKING US SICK **MUST READ***

How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?
NiNzrez (OP)

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07/09/2012 01:40 PM

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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Region 11515 [S17W79] rotated partly out of view, however, the largest penumbra split into smaller penumbrae with none of the visible penumbra exceeding 2.5 degrees latitudinal extent. The region continued to produce lots of C and M flares and could produce another major event while at or just behind the southwest limb

Region 11520 [S17E48] is a large and compact region with a huge main penumbra. There's a significant magnetic delta structure in the central part of this penumbra. A major flare is possible
[link to www.solen.info]

i will add, that there has been even more significant growth since this report was posted on July 9, 2012 at 06:45 UTC
and that the magnetic delta structure in the central part is now on the move and stretching out
i will be keeping an eye on this growth through the day. This has the possibility of a major event in the making as sunspot region 1520 rotates into a more earth facing position

Last Edited by NiNzrez on 07/09/2012 01:40 PM
Solar Alerts Blog
[link to mysolaralerts.blogspot.com]

Join Me On The GLP SOLAR WATCH Thread
Thread: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Thread: Magnetic Field Deficiency Syndrome- MAKING US SICK **MUST READ***

How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?
Starry eyes

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07/09/2012 01:41 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Region 11515 [S17W79] rotated partly out of view, however, the largest penumbra split into smaller penumbrae with none of the visible penumbra exceeding 2.5 degrees latitudinal extent. The region continued to produce lots of C and M flares and could produce another major event while at or just behind the southwest limb

Region 11520 [S17E48] is a large and compact region with a huge main penumbra. There's a significant magnetic delta structure in the central part of this penumbra. A major flare is possible
[link to www.solen.info]

i will add, that there has been even more significant growth since this report was posted on July 9, 2012 at 06:45 UTC
and that the magnetic delta structure in the central part is now on the move and stretching out
i will be keeping an eye on this growth through the day. This has the possibility of a major event in the making as sunspot region 1520 rotates into a more earth facing position
 Quoting: NiNzrez


Hi NiN!

Thanks for the update!

hf
***Earth was once considered to be flat. Anything is possible.***
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 01:44 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
So Nin, any conclusions in regard to the 60* super highway ???

It seems as if it didn't impose to much of an influence on the CME.
SnakeBite

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07/09/2012 01:49 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
The Ms and Ns represented at the bottom of the graph are Midnight and Noon UTC
 Quoting: TS66


Thanks man! That definition page sure will come in handy now:P I was wondering what those m's and n's were all about. The graph looks really strange to me compared to say two days ago, is this anything to do with the kp storms we are currently receiving?? (hope they are called kp storms:P kp=5 right now, says we are in minor storm conditions)
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 01:49 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
solarham looks very scary ATM
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 01:50 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Bump for later viewing

hf
Nacht im Walde

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07/09/2012 01:50 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
check out the 48hr mpeg on the AIA 4500 spectrum. 1520 seems to be growing substantially!!
[link to sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: mtn_mang


That HMI Magnetogram looks scary as shit!
 Quoting: Starry eyes

We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are. - Anais Nin
Starry eyes

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07/09/2012 01:52 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
solarham looks very scary ATM
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19428627


Yeah..

hiding
***Earth was once considered to be flat. Anything is possible.***
shadasonic

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07/09/2012 01:54 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Hello all!:D I am BRAND SPANKING NEW to this forum, but I have been watching for about a week now, since july 3rd! You guys have brought me a whole new level of excitement, and a yearning to learn more about what is going on, especially with the sun! Now i may not know much at all (or anything for that matter) regarding the sun and what it is doing right now, but i have been trying my hardest to learn over the past week, (i can get the jist of some of the graphs when they go up and down, especially the 1 minute GOES xray flux:D) I LOVE THIS PLACE and the people in here seem to be really awesome. I just want to thank you ALL for all the amazing hard work and info you put here, otherwise i would never have known what i do now:D. Please keep up the amazing work, as i look forward everyday to coming here and reading the new posts! Thanks again guys. -Snake
 Quoting: SnakeBite


hi Hey Snakebite- welcome, I follow this thread almost every day, sometimes I make comment, but mostly I learn from the wizards here. GLP is very often laugh-out-loud funny, but this thread has some serious sun worshippers!
 Quoting: SpiderJones


hi Hi Spider :D, Very glad to be here, and to learn from these wizards of the sun:P Ive seen some pretty funny stuff browsing all of GLP but when i come here, everything is relevant and minute by minute up to date, LOVE IT. Cant wait to see what gigantor brings ushiding. Im just wondering if anyone could clear up the Magnetometer for me, What exactly is it measuring?? Heres the link (although i know you all have it :P) [link to www.swpc.noaa.gov] Thanks guys!
 Quoting: SnakeBite


Snakebite ~ magnometer is a tool that measures magnetic stength.

The mangnetogram (what you are referring to) "is a plot showing the amplitude of one or more vector components of a magnetic field versus space or time. Solar magnetograms are a graphic representation of solar magnetic field strengths and polarity."

Here is a link that defines many solar terms (I use it a lot just to TRY & keep up with these guys wink)

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]
 Quoting: TS66


Thanks TS, very good tool, I've never seen that. Thats alot better than pulling out old astronomica, and physics books like I so often have to.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” – Carl Sagan
NiNzrez (OP)

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07/09/2012 01:57 PM

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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
So Nin, any conclusions in regard to the 60* super highway ???

It seems as if it didn't impose to much of an influence on the CME.
 Quoting: TS66


so far, not at all
only a Kp5 as the highest so far
with the 60 degree connection, i expected a bit more for at least short periode of time
but i would like to wait till tomorrow to see for sure
we have had so much particle activity on the sun this past week that is super hard to tell whats hitting exactly when
and when this geomagnetic storm will be over
lets just keep watching the Kp level and see what happens through the day :)
we may be supprised, and we may be let down
we will see by later tonight ^^
Solar Alerts Blog
[link to mysolaralerts.blogspot.com]

Join Me On The GLP SOLAR WATCH Thread
Thread: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Thread: Magnetic Field Deficiency Syndrome- MAKING US SICK **MUST READ***

How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?
NiNzrez (OP)

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07/09/2012 02:01 PM

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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
on spaceweather today July 9th

AURORA SURPRISE: July 9th began with a brief but beautiful display of auroras over North America. "I had gone out to search for noctilucent clouds, but instead I found these Northern Lights," says Robert Snache of Rama First Nation, Ontario:

The source of the display was not an explosion on the sun, but rather a fluctuation in the interplanetary magnetic field (IMF). The IMF near Earth tipped south, briefly opening a crack in our planet's magnetosphere. Solar wind poured in and ignited the lights.

More auroras could be in the offing. A CME that left the sun on July 6th might deliver a glancing blow to Earth's magnetic field on July 9-10. NOAA forecasters estimate a 25% to 30% chance of polar geomagnetic storms if and when the cloud arrives.
[link to spaceweather.com]


- soooo according to spaceweather, the Kp5 storm were having right now has nothing at all to do with a CME arrival?
MKay

also note. that they are saying the CME that occurred with the X flare has not arrived just yet
on the 7th they reported it would arrive on July 8th or 9th
now they change that to 9th-10 and without a report of the reason behind the change

This tells me that they do expect "something" from this X flare associated CME to hit

From spaceweather.com on JKuly 7th
"The explosion hurled a CME into space. According to this movie from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, the cloud appears to be heading south and away from Earth. However, we cannot yet rule out a glancing blow to our planet on July 8th or 9th."
[link to spaceweather.com]

Today they are saying July 9th or 10th for the CME arrival and that the Kp5 storm were having right now is NOT from any CME.


-On the My Solar Alerts blog, we disagreed with their arrival dates of July 8th-9th
we reported the arrival for this CME on the 9th-10
what they are now saying

[link to mysolaralerts.blogspot.com]
"We now see there IS a CME associated with this X flare event. Earth is well connected with the region of 1515. This CME was not directly Earth directed as it was ejected to the south and west, but a glancing blow to Earth's magnetosphere is likely late on July 9th into the 10th"

Last Edited by NiNzrez on 07/09/2012 02:21 PM
Solar Alerts Blog
[link to mysolaralerts.blogspot.com]

Join Me On The GLP SOLAR WATCH Thread
Thread: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Thread: Magnetic Field Deficiency Syndrome- MAKING US SICK **MUST READ***

How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 02:04 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
1520 looks like it is getting ready to blow-
hiding It is so damn hot here in No. Ca, today that I'm afraid to stick my head out the door. Sun is painful, burning on skin. Geeze, I wish solar max. would finish-up already!
Nacht im Walde

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07/09/2012 02:08 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
For anyone who is interested in the historical record of sunspots, I made a comparison of SS1520 to the largest Sunspot ever recorded, which was in 1947.

[link to imageshack.us]


Some time ago I made another comparison, which I falsely claimed was the carrington sunspot. However, I want to point out that it was actually also the sunspot of 1947 (for anyone who remembers).
We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are. - Anais Nin
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 02:12 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
check out the 48hr mpeg on the AIA 4500 spectrum. 1520 seems to be growing substantially!!
[link to sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: mtn_mang


That HMI Magnetogram looks scary as shit!
 Quoting: Starry eyes

 Quoting: Nacht im Walde


It looks like a double belt of explosions along the equator(?) of the sun.
mtn_mang

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07/09/2012 02:18 PM

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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
For anyone who is interested in the historical record of sunspots, I made a comparison of SS1520 to the largest Sunspot ever recorded, which was in 1947.

[link to imageshack.us]


Some time ago I made another comparison, which I falsely claimed was the carrington sunspot. However, I want to point out that it was actually also the sunspot of 1947 (for anyone who remembers).
 Quoting: Nacht im Walde


thank you, NiW! hf
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 02:19 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
For anyone who is interested in the historical record of sunspots, I made a comparison of SS1520 to the largest Sunspot ever recorded, which was in 1947.

[link to imageshack.us]


Some time ago I made another comparison, which I falsely claimed was the carrington sunspot. However, I want to point out that it was actually also the sunspot of 1947 (for anyone who remembers).
 Quoting: Nacht im Walde

Thanks for posting it
shadasonic

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07/09/2012 02:22 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Protons are picking up in the poles a bit

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” – Carl Sagan
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 02:29 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
I hope I'm not being outa line. hf
 Quoting: finley


Not at all, Finley, you done good! Whenever solar activity goes wild, it seems we're swamped with trolls posting off-topic gobbledygook and promoting their whacko YouTube conspiracy vids. We'll have keep our eye on the ball and not let this thread get derailed too much.

I don't wish to be mean to anyone, but I've noticed attempts to troll this thread for two days now. When I went back to the "March Madness" pages, when we had X-flares, big M's, and the strongest magnetic storm of the year; I noticed the same thing happened then. We were all busy and excited over solar events and we got hammered by crackpot UFO videos and other silly nonsense. Sorry to rant, but it's a very irksome annoyance. rant

smile_kissapplause
 Quoting: Hugh M Eye



ok im back..
Hugh M Eye still didnt come back and say sorry

you might want to look at the top left hand corner of the site of the GLP LOGO its a UFO!
WeAreOne

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07/09/2012 02:31 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
For anyone who is interested in the historical record of sunspots, I made a comparison of SS1520 to the largest Sunspot ever recorded, which was in 1947.

[link to imageshack.us]


Some time ago I made another comparison, which I falsely claimed was the carrington sunspot. However, I want to point out that it was actually also the sunspot of 1947 (for anyone who remembers).
 Quoting: Nacht im Walde


Thank you thumbs
Be the change you want the World to be. Be someone that makes you happy.
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 02:47 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
For anyone who is interested in the historical record of sunspots, I made a comparison of SS1520 to the largest Sunspot ever recorded, which was in 1947.

[link to imageshack.us]


Some time ago I made another comparison, which I falsely claimed was the carrington sunspot. However, I want to point out that it was actually also the sunspot of 1947 (for anyone who remembers).
 Quoting: Nacht im Walde


Awesome, thank-you!!!5a
Anonymous Coward
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07/09/2012 02:49 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Did A Massive Solar Proton Event Fry The Earth yesterday?
=========================================================

You need to know, yesterday nasa goddard space flight center detected incoming high level gamma rays from a solar EMP blast which was a billion times stronger than the energy of visible light and about two billion GeV.

THE flux of the high-energy gamma ray super wave yesterday was 500 times greater than the sun's normal radiation. The true information about this super wave event was not reported through main stream media or through internet channels.
 Quoting: UsTok 18925421


any updates?
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07/09/2012 02:53 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Did A Massive Solar Proton Event Fry The Earth yesterday?
=========================================================

You need to know, yesterday nasa goddard space flight center detected incoming high level gamma rays from a solar EMP blast which was a billion times stronger than the energy of visible light and about two billion GeV.

THE flux of the high-energy gamma ray super wave yesterday was 500 times greater than the sun's normal radiation. The true information about this super wave event was not reported through main stream media or through internet channels.
 Quoting: UsTok 18925421


any updates?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18936669


this is not right. I don't know who UsTok is, but this is bogus info.
[link to www.nasa.gov] note the date.
this is old but interesting: [link to www.nasa.gov]
Starry eyes

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07/09/2012 03:11 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * 312 M & 25 X FLARES starting 3-7-2011 (Updated Daily)
Did A Massive Solar Proton Event Fry The Earth yesterday?
=========================================================

You need to know, yesterday nasa goddard space flight center detected incoming high level gamma rays from a solar EMP blast which was a billion times stronger than the energy of visible light and about two billion GeV.

THE flux of the high-energy gamma ray super wave yesterday was 500 times greater than the sun's normal radiation. The true information about this super wave event was not reported through main stream media or through internet channels.
 Quoting: UsTok 18925421


any updates?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18936669


this is not right. I don't know who UsTok is, but this is bogus info.
[link to www.nasa.gov] note the date.
this is old but interesting: [link to www.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: SpiderJones


I'm confused. What does that mean?
***Earth was once considered to be flat. Anything is possible.***

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