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SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 07:40 AM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
I THINK THE VERY PREMISE OF THE FACT THAT WE'RE TO PROVIDE BETTER LIVES FOR OUR CHILDREN NO LONGER MATTERS. I STRIVE EVRYDAY FOR THE BETTERMENT OF MY KIDS , APPARENTLY TO NO AVAIL! ONE DAY THIS PEACEFUL SOLDIER WILL HAVE ENOUGH AND TIME FOR THE BAYARD WILL ARRIVE!
 Quoting: shadasonic


I want all to think on this as we enter important times!
 Quoting: shadasonic


Sada, with much respect, this scenario has played out an infinite amount of times throughout history, the same as the Hebrews under the Egyptians, the Christians under the Romans, the surfs under the Monarchs, the slaves under the white man, the jewish people under Nazi Germany, the Iraqis under Suddam, etc etc., I am sure they felt the same as you do now. And that their end must truly be near. We have suffered nothing in comparison to these people, and all those that still do.

There is nothing new under the sun.

"Betterment" cannot be measured by status in life or by the money we make. No one can take it away nor prevent it's happening, we need no saving from our collective selves.

This is simply a learning process called life hf
AkivaJeff

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09/08/2012 07:52 AM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)

...


Hello,One and All!

chorus

I hope everyone is Good : )

So,Q..you ask how many Black Holes exist or have been confirmed,I'd stick my neck out and say 0.

Well,that's according to the Nutty Professor Bill Gade : )

Universe = Singularity - Black Holes = Singularity - How can two 'Singularities' exist in one place!?

Here,listen to Bills' thoughts on this end of Relativity -


[link to www.youtube.com]

Just to play Devils Advocate.
[/quote

Is there not hard evidence that black holes exist?
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


yes. And you can find it on NASA website for those who only believe with links
 Quoting: El Quisqueyano


I've certainly gotten the message that it was wrong of me to ask Gabe for a link yesterday. Amazing to me how all I did was say something didn't make sense and ask for a link. Not to be nasty or try to disprove anything but so I could read about what was said. I was very curious about it. I can't figure out why that was wrong of me. But evidently it was. And I believe my question for a link was taken entirely the wrong way. I am sorry if I offended Gabe or anyone else...truly. A lesson learned by me about the dynamics of this thread. My apologies to anyone I may have offended...sincerely. Crawling back into my lurker mode where it is safer. :-)
 Quoting: Gabriel


Please don't go into hiding. I love your posts. You actually provoke me to look at things sometimes and you add a great deal to the discussion here.

note: replying to Shenue. don't know why it says Gabe????

Last Edited by AkivaJeff on 09/08/2012 08:29 AM
Life is short...
But it's WIDE.
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 08:00 AM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
It so hard to understand seeing a shot like this, and it being soooooooo quiet ???

[link to www.lmsal.com]

Good morning everyone.
AkivaJeff

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09/08/2012 08:09 AM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
It so hard to understand seeing a shot like this, and it being soooooooo quiet ???

[link to www.lmsal.com]

Good morning everyone.
 Quoting: TS66


Good morning TS.

hf
Life is short...
But it's WIDE.
Gabriel

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09/08/2012 08:48 AM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)

...


Hello,One and All!

chorus

I hope everyone is Good : )

So,Q..you ask how many Black Holes exist or have been confirmed,I'd stick my neck out and say 0.

Well,that's according to the Nutty Professor Bill Gade : )

Universe = Singularity - Black Holes = Singularity - How can two 'Singularities' exist in one place!?

Here,listen to Bills' thoughts on this end of Relativity -


[link to www.youtube.com]

Just to play Devils Advocate.
[/quote

Is there not hard evidence that black holes exist?
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


yes. And you can find it on NASA website for those who only believe with links
 Quoting: El Quisqueyano


I've certainly gotten the message that it was wrong of me to ask Gabe for a link yesterday. Amazing to me how all I did was say something didn't make sense and ask for a link. Not to be nasty or try to disprove anything but so I could read about what was said. I was very curious about it. I can't figure out why that was wrong of me. But evidently it was. And I believe my question for a link was taken entirely the wrong way. I am sorry if I offended Gabe or anyone else...truly. A lesson learned by me about the dynamics of this thread. My apologies to anyone I may have offended...sincerely. Crawling back into my lurker mode where it is safer. :-)
 Quoting: Gabriel

Shenue... I am so sorry I made you feel this way.... I was posting while under a great deal of emotional stress from the days activities.... I am the one who should go back into lurker mode on this thread...

Look up scientist Jerry Fishman from NASA. They have posted q&a sessions with him on black holes.

He confirms at least dozens of bh,s in our galaxy Remember, you cannot see a black hole , only it's effects...
shadasonic

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09/08/2012 08:49 AM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
I THINK THE VERY PREMISE OF THE FACT THAT WE'RE TO PROVIDE BETTER LIVES FOR OUR CHILDREN NO LONGER MATTERS. I STRIVE EVRYDAY FOR THE BETTERMENT OF MY KIDS , APPARENTLY TO NO AVAIL! ONE DAY THIS PEACEFUL SOLDIER WILL HAVE ENOUGH AND TIME FOR THE BAYARD WILL ARRIVE!
 Quoting: shadasonic


I want all to think on this as we enter important times!
 Quoting: shadasonic


Sada, with much respect, this scenario has played out an infinite amount of times throughout history, the same as the Hebrews under the Egyptians, the Christians under the Romans, the surfs under the Monarchs, the slaves under the white man, the jewish people under Nazi Germany, the Iraqis under Suddam, etc etc., I am sure they felt the same as you do now. And that their end must truly be near. We have suffered nothing in comparison to these people, and all those that still do.

There is nothing new under the sun.

"Betterment" cannot be measured by status in life or by the money we make. No one can take it away nor prevent it's happening, we need no saving from our collective selves.

This is simply a learning process called life hf
 Quoting: TS66


Agreed, an irrational rant after a long day. You are a nice grounding force TS, thanks!hf
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” – Carl Sagan
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 08:51 AM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
I THINK THE VERY PREMISE OF THE FACT THAT WE'RE TO PROVIDE BETTER LIVES FOR OUR CHILDREN NO LONGER MATTERS. I STRIVE EVRYDAY FOR THE BETTERMENT OF MY KIDS , APPARENTLY TO NO AVAIL! ONE DAY THIS PEACEFUL SOLDIER WILL HAVE ENOUGH AND TIME FOR THE BAYARD WILL ARRIVE!
 Quoting: shadasonic


I want all to think on this as we enter important times!
 Quoting: shadasonic


Sada, with much respect, this scenario has played out an infinite amount of times throughout history, the same as the Hebrews under the Egyptians, the Christians under the Romans, the surfs under the Monarchs, the slaves under the white man, the jewish people under Nazi Germany, the Iraqis under Suddam, etc etc., I am sure they felt the same as you do now. And that their end must truly be near. We have suffered nothing in comparison to these people, and all those that still do.

There is nothing new under the sun.

"Betterment" cannot be measured by status in life or by the money we make. No one can take it away nor prevent it's happening, we need no saving from our collective selves.

This is simply a learning process called life hf
 Quoting: TS66


Agreed, an irrational rant after a long day. You are a nice grounding force TS, thanks!hf
 Quoting: shadasonic


Good, so that means I can count on you when I rant !!
shenue

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09/08/2012 09:18 AM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)

...


yes. And you can find it on NASA website for those who only believe with links
 Quoting: El Quisqueyano


I've certainly gotten the message that it was wrong of me to ask Gabe for a link yesterday. Amazing to me how all I did was say something didn't make sense and ask for a link. Not to be nasty or try to disprove anything but so I could read about what was said. I was very curious about it. I can't figure out why that was wrong of me. But evidently it was. And I believe my question for a link was taken entirely the wrong way. I am sorry if I offended Gabe or anyone else...truly. A lesson learned by me about the dynamics of this thread. My apologies to anyone I may have offended...sincerely. Crawling back into my lurker mode where it is safer. :-)
 Quoting: Gabriel

Shenue... I am so sorry I made you feel this way.... I was posting while under a great deal of emotional stress from the days activities.... I am the one who should go back into lurker mode on this thread...

Look up scientist Jerry Fishman from NASA. They have posted q&a sessions with him on black holes.

He confirms at least dozens of bh,s in our galaxy Remember, you cannot see a black hole , only it's effects...
 Quoting: shenue


Gabe please don't lurk. I have always enjoyed your posts...always...in here, in El Q's thread and your threads! There are many here that feel the very same way. It is my intention to apologize, NOT to turn you into a lurker. You have too much to add to this thread to do that!
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 09:31 AM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
Ok now ... queue the sun !!!
AkivaJeff

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09/08/2012 09:48 AM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
...


I want all to think on this as we enter important times!
 Quoting: shadasonic


Sada, with much respect, this scenario has played out an infinite amount of times throughout history, the same as the Hebrews under the Egyptians, the Christians under the Romans, the surfs under the Monarchs, the slaves under the white man, the jewish people under Nazi Germany, the Iraqis under Suddam, etc etc., I am sure they felt the same as you do now. And that their end must truly be near. We have suffered nothing in comparison to these people, and all those that still do.

There is nothing new under the sun.

"Betterment" cannot be measured by status in life or by the money we make. No one can take it away nor prevent it's happening, we need no saving from our collective selves.

This is simply a learning process called life hf
 Quoting: TS66


Agreed, an irrational rant after a long day. You are a nice grounding force TS, thanks!hf
 Quoting: shadasonic


Good, so that means I can count on you when I rant !!
 Quoting: TS66


I wonder what it looks like when you rant. Haven't seen it yet. Back to the Sun.hf
Life is short...
But it's WIDE.
mistersplinter

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09/08/2012 11:47 AM

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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
What is this spike, pray tell.....

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]
from the site:
[link to solarimg.org]
 Quoting: einsteinsfly



a cap of the Epam proton spike you mentioned:

[link to i1165.photobucket.com]


Epam electron spike

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]

cap:
[link to s1165.photobucket.com]

and the SIS spike as well:

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]

cap:
[link to i1165.photobucket.com]
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." -- Albert Einstein
mistersplinter

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09/08/2012 11:57 AM

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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
Greetings sun folks!!

Hope all is well with y'all.

Been using these last coupla days for 'winterizing' my house and those inside. I have a feeling that this winter is gonna be a bit different than what we have become accustomed to.

I, once again, thank you all for the continued information presented and even when I cannot participate as much as I'd like, I follow every day.

Y'all kick arse!

Best.thread.ever!


rockon
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." -- Albert Einstein
shadasonic

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09/08/2012 12:01 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
...


I want all to think on this as we enter important times!
 Quoting: shadasonic


Sada, with much respect, this scenario has played out an infinite amount of times throughout history, the same as the Hebrews under the Egyptians, the Christians under the Romans, the surfs under the Monarchs, the slaves under the white man, the jewish people under Nazi Germany, the Iraqis under Suddam, etc etc., I am sure they felt the same as you do now. And that their end must truly be near. We have suffered nothing in comparison to these people, and all those that still do.

There is nothing new under the sun.

"Betterment" cannot be measured by status in life or by the money we make. No one can take it away nor prevent it's happening, we need no saving from our collective selves.

This is simply a learning process called life hf
 Quoting: TS66


Agreed, an irrational rant after a long day. You are a nice grounding force TS, thanks!hf
 Quoting: shadasonic


Good, so that means I can count on you when I rant !!
 Quoting: TS66


For sure!
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” – Carl Sagan
shadasonic

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09/08/2012 12:02 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
Ok now ... queue the sun !!!
 Quoting: TS66


Bring on the sun,I'm ready for Solshow
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” – Carl Sagan
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 12:11 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
Although it won't be with us much longer, AR1562 has quickly grown to 340 millionths in size; dwarfing AR1564.

Joint USAF/NOAA Solar Region Summary
SRS Number 252 Issued at 0030Z on 08 Sep 2012
Report compiled from data received at SWO on 07 Sep
I. Regions with Sunspots. Locations Valid at 07/2400Z
Nmbr Location Lo Area Z LL NN Mag Type
1560 N05W89 131 0010 Bxo 02 02 Beta
1562 S20W63 106 0340 Dho 09 06 Beta
1564 S13W28 071 0200 Esi 13 35 Beta
1565 N11W32 074 0010 Axx 02 03 Alpha
1566 N23E26 016 0070 Cao 01 02 Beta
1567 N17E56 347 0010 Bxo 02 02 Beta

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]

If it puts out any decent flares they'll be well-connected to Earth's magnetic footprint. There's an Active Region Proximity Alert issued by iSWA:


[link to iswa.ccmc.gsfc.nasa.gov:8080]
 Quoting: Hugh M Eye


Cool-proxmity alert- i have never seen this, thanks!
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 12:32 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)

...


Hello,One and All!

chorus

I hope everyone is Good : )

So,Q..you ask how many Black Holes exist or have been confirmed,I'd stick my neck out and say 0.

Well,that's according to the Nutty Professor Bill Gade : )

Universe = Singularity - Black Holes = Singularity - How can two 'Singularities' exist in one place!?

Here,listen to Bills' thoughts on this end of Relativity -


[link to www.youtube.com]

Just to play Devils Advocate.
[/quote

Is there not hard evidence that black holes exist?
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


yes. And you can find it on NASA website for those who only believe with links
 Quoting: El Quisqueyano


I've certainly gotten the message that it was wrong of me to ask Gabe for a link yesterday. Amazing to me how all I did was say something didn't make sense and ask for a link. Not to be nasty or try to disprove anything but so I could read about what was said. I was very curious about it. I can't figure out why that was wrong of me. But evidently it was. And I believe my question for a link was taken entirely the wrong way. I am sorry if I offended Gabe or anyone else...truly. A lesson learned by me about the dynamics of this thread. My apologies to anyone I may have offended...sincerely. Crawling back into my lurker mode where it is safer. :-)
 Quoting: Gabriel


Oh, don't do that, thw written word sometimes comes out as terse, when it was not intended. People answer and type fast and cause a bit of confusion- don't take it personally. You are fine.hf
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 12:41 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
What is this spike, pray tell.....

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]
from the site:
[link to solarimg.org]
 Quoting: einsteinsfly



a cap of the Epam proton spike you mentioned:

[link to i1165.photobucket.com]


Epam electron spike

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]

cap:
[link to s1165.photobucket.com]

and the SIS spike as well:

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]

cap:
[link to i1165.photobucket.com]
 Quoting: mistersplinter


was this spike from a farside or C event?
joinca

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09/08/2012 12:42 PM

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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
And science changes again......
NASA’s Voyager 1 Spacecraft May Not Be Near Edge of Solar System after All [Updated] September 5, 2012
snip:
Decker and his colleagues conclude from the plasma measurements “that Voyager 1 is not at present close to the heliopause, at least in the form that it has been envisioned up to now.”
The article is here: [link to blogs.scientificamerican.com]
hiding
"The government will one day be corrupt and full of liars, and the people will flock to the one that tells the truth." - “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.” - "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - "A Country with no Border, is not a country" -- Thomas Jefferson

We MUST NEVER forget what Kamala Harris did to Justice Kavanaugh & his family!
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 12:51 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
1562 is huge but has only put out a C1.2 yesterday, I expected it to enlarge and pop off more flares as it heads for Nin's spot on the Eastern limb. Maybe tomorrow.
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 01:02 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
And science changes again......
NASA’s Voyager 1 Spacecraft May Not Be Near Edge of Solar System after All [Updated] September 5, 2012
snip:
Decker and his colleagues conclude from the plasma measurements “that Voyager 1 is not at present close to the heliopause, at least in the form that it has been envisioned up to now.”
The article is here: [link to blogs.scientificamerican.com]
hiding
 Quoting: joinca


thanks, great article.
AkivaJeff

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09/08/2012 01:45 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
Nice M-flare going on now.

Last Edited by AkivaJeff on 09/08/2012 01:52 PM
Life is short...
But it's WIDE.
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 02:05 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
Nice M-flare going on now.
 Quoting: AkivaJeff


[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]

I come to see if you guys were see it :)
whiteangel
also known at WA

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09/08/2012 02:19 PM

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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
M1.4 from 1564?
[link to lasp.colorado.edu]

Last Edited by WhiteAngel on 09/08/2012 02:20 PM
Isaiah 5:20 KJV
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Thread: Being Prepared - Updated Basic Food List On Page One
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 02:20 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
Although it won't be with us much longer, AR1562 has quickly grown to 340 millionths in size; dwarfing AR1564.

Joint USAF/NOAA Solar Region Summary
SRS Number 252 Issued at 0030Z on 08 Sep 2012
Report compiled from data received at SWO on 07 Sep
I. Regions with Sunspots. Locations Valid at 07/2400Z
Nmbr Location Lo Area Z LL NN Mag Type
1560 N05W89 131 0010 Bxo 02 02 Beta
1562 S20W63 106 0340 Dho 09 06 Beta
1564 S13W28 071 0200 Esi 13 35 Beta
1565 N11W32 074 0010 Axx 02 03 Alpha
1566 N23E26 016 0070 Cao 01 02 Beta
1567 N17E56 347 0010 Bxo 02 02 Beta

[link to www.swpc.noaa.gov]

If it puts out any decent flares they'll be well-connected to Earth's magnetic footprint. There's an Active Region Proximity Alert issued by iSWA:


[link to iswa.ccmc.gsfc.nasa.gov:8080]
 Quoting: Hugh M Eye


Cool-proxmity alert- i have never seen this, thanks!
 Quoting: SpiderJones


diddnt we just get some M's...
mistersplinter

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09/08/2012 02:35 PM

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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)


certainly a busy area
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." -- Albert Einstein
Hugh M Eye

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09/08/2012 04:08 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
No sign of any CME from the M 1.4 yet. If there was one, it would definitely be geoeffective. However there was a big flare and CME on the far side about 12 hours ago from somewhere beyond the SW limb. This CME may be the x-ray source of the slow C2.8 flare very early today.

Farside eruption caught by STEREO Ahead EUVI:

[link to stereo.gsfc.nasa.gov]

SOHO C2 image of CME off the western limb:

[link to sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov]
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 04:12 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
Hiya all im lurking a bit :)

and greetings to allhi
[link to news.discovery.com]
Hugh M Eye

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09/08/2012 04:19 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
Hiya all im lurking a bit :)

and greetings to allhi
[link to news.discovery.com]
 Quoting: IwantToBelieve76


Hey , Brother '76! It's great to see you here today.!!!! Maybe old Sol will favor us with a Sun-show today.

5aAngry Gigantorcool2
Anonymous Coward
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09/08/2012 04:29 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
Hiya all im lurking a bit :)

and greetings to allhi
[link to news.discovery.com]
 Quoting: IwantToBelieve76


Hey , Brother '76! It's great to see you here today.!!!! Maybe old Sol will favor us with a Sun-show today.

5a:Angry Gigantor:cool2
 Quoting: Hugh M Eye


1rof1

lol nice image hugh :)


Yep, hehe looks like
Hugh M Eye

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09/08/2012 04:35 PM
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Re: SOLAR WATCH * Huge X8.2 Flare Sept. 10, 2017! (Updated Daily)
The M 1.4 flare was a one-two punch from both 1564 & 1562. Two nearly simultaneous eruptions can be seen in the Big Bear movie and the SDO close-up movie. Pretty cool.

Big Bear h-alpha movie:

[link to halpha.nso.edu]

SDO/Solarsoft close-up movie:

[link to sdowww.lmsal.com]

Last Edited by Hugh M Eye on 09/08/2012 04:35 PM





GLP