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Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.

 
BRIEF
Rebel with morals

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03/12/2011 11:54 PM

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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
Ok, somebody point out the flaw in my sand theory...At Chernobyl they used concrete which is retarded, because high temperatures break down concrete to it's basic ingredients, but sand melts to molten mass and with enough layers will form a glass dome that will contain all radiation...
 Quoting: BRIEF


Kind of like a stained glass claymore... now that would be good ;-)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 960166


Haha, hey it would work, and I haven't seen anyone provide a valid,or any, argument against it...The fact is: If you bury it in cheap, easy to obtain sand...even if it is dredged from the sea floor, it would contain the meltdown...period.
 Quoting: BRIEF


sounds simple enough
 Quoting: Only Me


Thank you...usually the best answer is the simple one...making it over complicated benefits no one, except the ego...
With freedom comes responsibility.

Heterosexual pride!

Briefcut4892
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03/13/2011 12:02 AM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
...


Kind of like a stained glass claymore... now that would be good ;-)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 960166


Haha, hey it would work, and I haven't seen anyone provide a valid,or any, argument against it...The fact is: If you bury it in cheap, easy to obtain sand...even if it is dredged from the sea floor, it would contain the meltdown...period.
 Quoting: BRIEF


sounds simple enough
 Quoting: Only Me


Thank you...usually the best answer is the simple one...making it over complicated benefits no one, except the ego...
 Quoting: BRIEF


I'm not trying to be a dick... I'm just offering the information that I know. (everyone else can see previous comments on this post).

Nuclear reactors are incredibly complicated... and "simple" answers don't really work with them. You can't just turn a reactor "off." You can't just put out a reactor fire with water. You can't just cool it down with a water hose...

I'd love a simple answer to the problem too.. but it just is not there. If the answers were simple... don't you think they would have been implemented already? I'm not sure exactly what else to tell you.... so I'll go my way, and let you go yours... and we can agree to disagree.
Anonymous Coward
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03/13/2011 12:05 AM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
In my option, I think somebody has bad weapon shooting at Japan to make earthquake and again shooting target at Nuclear Plant so that make it failure. Ideal target like water pump, possible burn down, why don't Japan get mobile generator get starting water pump at site, obvious they seem has tried it maybe water pump has failed or damaged by shooting weapon from someone like high tech (Haarp). Not make sense Japan who man kind trying to save Nuclear Plant from failure but useless if someone has disturb. Like back in time Black Out in Eastern States and Canada, and I have heard car won't start, either computer box or something make car won't starting. Same thing happen in Japan water pump maybe possible by shooting weapon at pump to make it burn out and make useless for mobile generator to bring at site. At least Japan is tried mankind but couldn't anything if something else shooting weapon. Could be somebody in making doomday scene.Just my thought.
Anonymous Coward
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03/13/2011 12:20 AM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
Ok anyone with any new developments!? The news flow seems to have grinded to a halt.... which kind of worries me, to be honest.
Anonymous Coward
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03/13/2011 12:47 AM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
I have overlook, they use batteries as backup so pump should be working. I am out. Very Sad for Japan.
snark

User ID: 1050548
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03/13/2011 09:07 AM

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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
Good live feeds from Japan with Twitter decks: middle channel is in English.

[link to www.ustwrap.info]

Last Edited by snark on 03/13/2011 09:07 AM
T For Texas, T For Tennessee!


The virtue of courage is a prerequisite for the practice of all other virtues, because otherwise one is virtuous only when virtue has no cost. There are times when something needs to be done, and yet we know that if we step up and do this needful thing, we will pay a heavy personal price. -C.S. Lewis
D. BunkerModerator
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03/13/2011 09:50 AM

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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
Unless it couldn't solidify & instead just became a giant cauldron of super-radioactive boiling molten glass...

damned
 Quoting: ScrumpTheTexan


The average melting point of sand is between 1500 and 1700 Celsius. A meltdown will reach temperatures in excess of 2,200 Celsius rendering the sand inconsequential.
savetata


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
BRIEF
Rebel with morals

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03/13/2011 09:59 AM

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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
Unless it couldn't solidify & instead just became a giant cauldron of super-radioactive boiling molten glass...

damned
 Quoting: ScrumpTheTexan


The average melting point of sand is between 1500 and 1700 Celsius. A meltdown will reach temperatures in excess of 2,200 Celsius rendering the sand inconsequential.
 Quoting: D. Bunker


The initial layers will melt quickly, but as more and more is added the layers will cool and solidify with a molten mass below the gradually hardened surface...In fact it's beneficial that it burn onto the ground and sand can be poured on top to fill the cavity...
With freedom comes responsibility.

Heterosexual pride!

Briefcut4892
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03/13/2011 10:00 AM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
[link to www.japantoday.com]

look at that link and at the comments from the viewers from several years ago.. almost prophetic no?
D. BunkerModerator
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03/13/2011 10:09 AM

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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
Unless it couldn't solidify & instead just became a giant cauldron of super-radioactive boiling molten glass...

damned
 Quoting: ScrumpTheTexan


The average melting point of sand is between 1500 and 1700 Celsius. A meltdown will reach temperatures in excess of 2,200 Celsius rendering the sand inconsequential.
 Quoting: D. Bunker


The initial layers will melt quickly, but as more and more is added the layers will cool and solidify with a molten mass below the gradually hardened surface...In fact it's beneficial that it burn onto the ground and sand can be poured on top to fill the cavity...
 Quoting: BRIEF


In theory, the burn will halt at some point below ground as the rock and surrounding elements will be able to absorb the constant heat dissipation, but I am unsure if the sand would not simply remain molten and never re-solidify. It certainly does not appear that it would hurt the situation. Of course how the sand is placed in the containment would be a problem also.
savetata


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
fukwat

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03/14/2011 04:49 PM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
This entire nuclear thing has Fukwat shouting WTF..this cover up is BP all over again from land.

Is it Fukushima,or,Us'iz'fuk'd?
2342

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03/14/2011 09:32 PM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
[link to www.japantoday.com]

look at that link and at the comments from the viewers from several years ago.. almost prophetic no?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1283265


bump
www.youtube.com/clandestinetimelord
Mgainey
User ID: 1297764
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03/15/2011 12:17 PM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
Ok so a total meltdown is where this is headed, will there be a huge Nuclear explosion when this starts?? The whole mushroom cloud and all deal???
SanujB
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03/18/2011 01:23 AM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
First a very over simplified primer on how a nuclear "reactor" works so people can understand what we are dealing with here.

So...the way a nuclear power plant works is really pretty simple taken in broad strokes. It uses Uranium "fuel" to make heat, that heat boils water to make steam, the steam drives turbines much like fancy "Steam engines" and those steam engines drive generators which make electricity.

There ya go, you are now a nuclear power plant expert...lol..well..it's easy in broad strokes as I said, much like saying something like, "Put wings and a jet engine on it, grab the steering wheel and boom you're a pilot"...the actual real life operation is far more complicated, but the general underlying concept is just as simple as I put it.

So how and why does a nuclear power reactor work?

First the fuel, which is the central topic of discussion regarding the recent events. The fuel for the Japanese reactor and most all nuclear power plants on earth is Uranium. More specifically "Enriched Uranium" Uranium is a naturally occurring "metallic chemical element" found in the earth and we mine it pretty much like other metals, however as we all likely already know, uranium has some special properties.

Naturally occurring uranium is about 99.25% Uranium-238 isotopes or parts...this is more or less the dead stuff, the junk. It is also about 3/4% Uranium-235...this is the "good stuff" which creates the nuclear fission reaction. The beauty of U-235 is that it creates this fission reaction all by itself. It's a naturally fissionable isotope. What this means in simple terms is that hunks U-235 will "fight" with other hunks of U-235 by firing atomic particles at each other blasting off other atomic particles in a small explosion known as "Fission". That firing creates more fissionable "pieces" which get blown off and then those pieces blast into U-235 atoms which in turn creates more teeny explosions and carrying on the "chain reaction" known as fission...and that fission creates heat...lots of heat. All this takes place at the atomic level and it happens all by itself or naturally.

You get enough U-235 in some big pieces and slam them into each other?...you get a "critical mass" also known as a Hiroshima Bomb. You get some smaller pieces together to "fight"...you get nuclear fuel rods...pretty simple really and all it takes is "enriching" the level of the reactive U-235 to a level in the uranium metal where it can fight at the level you want. Enrich Uranium to about 2-5% you have nuclear fuel...enrich it a lot higher to say 90% or more?...you have "Weapons grade Uranium" for an atomic bomb. So now you know the entire core principal behind nuclear energy. Simple to say, but much harder to actually do, but that process is for another discussion....it's also quite dangerous as you have likely surmised, not only because those radioactive isotopes are deadly to humans, but also because that once the fission process starts?...it's virtually unstoppable...in fact the entire process system in a nuclear power plant is not really about starting the atomic fission at all, it's mostly all about controlling what happens naturally.

Just like sky diving isn't really about the falling part, that's easy, it's about the stopping part, lol, being under control, because if you don't control the falling part with a parachute?...well we all know what happens at the end of the sky dive ride down...Sudden contact with a medium sized planet and you die...much like a "melt down" in a nuclear power plant...it's the end of the line.

So now that you are a nuclear physist...put your knowledge of atomic science to work. One popular way is to build a nuclear power plant and make electricity. Simple concept as I laid out above, but the real life operation is very complicated. So to make it easy to understand, this all you need to do.

You have your nuclear fuel. Most commonly nuclear fuel is made into "pellets" or slugs of enriched uranium. Those pellets are inserted into long metal tubes and those tubes are then assembled into an array and that's your nuclear fuel "bundle" As you now know left to it own nature the fuel rods would be fighting as soon as they were near each other in the bundle. To prevent and control that natural fission you need "control rods" Control rods absorb the atomic particles fired back and forth by the U-235 fuel, they prevent the fission reaction by keeping the atomic particles the U-235 pellets fire off from reaching the other U-235 pellets.

Most commonly Control rods are graphite. So you insert your control rods between the nuclear fuel rods and you have a stable bundle...you remove the control rods?...the Uranium pellets begin launching particles and creating heat. So now you are in control of the whole process...you remove the control rods just a little bit?...you make a little heat. You remove them more?...you make more heat, simple.

So now you are going to put that heat to use in a nuclear power plant. You take your fuel and control rod bundle and put them in a vessel that can hold water, much like a pressure cooker. You put that "pressure cooker" in a containment building for safety, add water via various pipes and plumbing and close it off. Then use your atomic fission process to boil that water into steam and that's all there is to it. Use the steam to drive an "engine" or turbine and put it use...power an aircraft carrier or spin a generator and make electricity to sell. All in a neat self contained package that generates virtually unlimited heat energy until the U-235 metal runs out of particles to blast each other with, which is years. All to do with as you please....in theory...

So now that you know the entire nuclear fuel cycle it's easy to see why atomic power is so desirable even aside from the weapons aspect. Nuclear fuel rods will last for years and make a lot of usable energy, as long as they don't get out of control and break out of their atomic cage, which is what has apparently happened at the Fukushima reactor in Japan...

So what did happen and is happening at the crippled reactor in Japan...well the reports coming out aren't all very clear, but some things MUST have happened to create what we have seen and know as fact...and likely will see coming.

So as we all know Japan suffered a massive earth quake and the resulting tidal waves. This sent the nuclear power plants into emergency shut down mode...in essence slamming the control rods into the fuel bundle and "shutting down" the nuclear reaction. However you cannot just turn off a nuclear power plant like you shut off a water faucet...it's far more complicated than that. There is a lot of residual heat left in your nuclear reactor vessel and fuel bundle and it will stay hot for quite awhile. You must cool that entire assembly down via your plumbing...if you don't? the parts will burn and melt...and if the tubes holding the fuel pellets melt or if your control rods burn away?...the nuclear genie gets lose...and the naturally occurring atomic fight begins again...only now it's all broken free into a mess...a "melt down" and you aren't going to be able to put it all back into a neat package again because it's firing deadly particles all over the place in a wild rampage...causing more heat, breaking more U-235 fighters free..all getting worse and worse in a chaos of uncontrolled fission run amok.

If you cannot stop it?...the result is all your nuclear fuel and just about everything in contact with it is all melted into a super hot wad that will not stop it's fission process until it runs out of it's particles to happily fire away at itself and everything else around it. The resulting mess of nuclear fuel will create so much heat that it will melt everything in it's path...including the earth...which is where the term "China Syndrome" comes from. The theory that the meltdown wad could not be stopped until it melted through the earth all the way to China, it's debatable at best, but it illustrates the point pretty well too, that the chaotic fission mess mass is going burn so hot that once it gets going?...nothing known to man is going to stop it. As bad as that sounds?...well...it gets worse...

The whole time the U-235 mess is firing sub-atomic particles at itself and blasting away?..it's also breaking off other atomic hunks as nuclear waste...deadly to humans nuclear waste, not the least of which are radioactive Cesium and Iodine. So the whole mess is not something you want to let happen, in fact it's about the worst possible scenario that can happen during the operation of a nuclear power plant. So now you know what happens in a meltdown, so how close is this reactor to a full scale meltdown...

Well we know this...radiation has been released into the atmosphere. That is an incredibly bad sign because it means your once neat process is experiencing some very bad problems and it's beginning to bust lose, at least. The operators of the power plant decided to release radioactive steam in an attempt to decrease the too high pressure in the cooling system which was being over heated because the real cooling system and it's first line of defense backup system was broken down. The primary due to loss of power, the second line of defense due to the tidal waves knocking out the diesel generators. They were running on a limp along 3rd tier battery backup system that was only designed for the short term. Aside from possible other problems created by the historic earthquake and tsunamis that system seems to have been not capable of operating the cooling system long enough to sufficiently cool down the core to a safe level all by itself...and the plant operators ran out of time. The core began to overheat for whatever reasons, but there is no doubt that is what has happened and in fact we have been graciously allowed to hear of "cooling difficulties" by the "Mostly Shit Media" and the "No problemos doodsan" gov't officials.

The containment structure has exploded and no longer exists. There are not many ways that can happen as explosives are not kept in a nuclear reactor building. The virtually assured way that explosion did happen is that the cooling water was exposed to the nuclear fuel. The Uranium "cracked" the water molecules into the base elements of Hydrogen and Oxygen...as we all known hydrogen is explosive. Enough hydrogen accumulates and boom...Hindengurg bomb explodes in the containment building and destroys it as we have seen.

This is not only incredibly bad because it reveals a very seriously dangerous runaway nuclear condition is likely occurring, but it also removes a layer of protection between all of us humans and the "Core" which direct exposure to is deadly. You cannot have explosive gas being created in the containment building if the reactor core is still 100% intact, venting maybe, but not the latter...it's a very very bad sign.

At this point you can count on this. There is nuclear fuel exposed to what and where it not supposed to be. If and when that nuclear fuel is exposed to the atmosphere it not only spews forth deadly radioactive particles is also burns even hotter because it reacts with the oxygen. The more it burns the worse it gets, the worse it gets, the more will burn itself free repeating so on so forth in a runaway chain reaction and if it cannot be stopped?...the end result is a complete meltdown.

As bad as that is, this particular situation gets even worse...there is more than one reactor at this site...in fact there are four and we are already hearing about "cooling problems" in reactor number 2....

Any explosion at a place as complex as a nuclear power facility is going to create problems and further damage to necessary systems...and I don't care how well it designed against that happening, some damage is going to be done...even under the best conditions and obviously the conditions as a result of the disasters are nowhere near "best". There is radiation being bled off, how many nuclear engineers are going to stay on site and deal with the increasing problems under not only the hazards presented by the atomic reactors themselves, but all the problems created by the massive earthquake and Tsunamis. Obviously a lot of the tools those people would have under even standard "emergency conditions" are gone. There aren't too many tools left and some of those are going to deteriorate as time goes by.

They can to try to vent off steam and have done that...unfortuantely for us humans that steam is radioactive, not something you want to shoot into the air. They can basically poison the reactor with a fluid that "should" stop the fission reaction...I don't believe it's ever been done before and how that could be done with all the problems they are experiencing? I really do not know.

Considering that even the problems which they have admitted to are very high on the "Holy crap this is bad" scale? I myself would take into consideration that things are very likely worse than they are willing to admit, and they have admitted only after the detection of certain radioactive elements that their reactor has been "partially melting" they had virtually be "caught" into admitting even that. The presence of the hydrogen gas is also a very tell tale sign that the reactor core itself is very hot and that they may indeed be facing a virtually unstoppable nuclear monster.

They are already calling this the second worst nuclear disaster/accident in history, and it's far from over IMO and in the opinion of many experts as well. It's already bad enough with radioactive material being unleashed into the air...if it gets as bad as it could and gets even near a full blown "meltdown"?...it'll will get worse on an exponential scale with vast amounts of radioactive materials being spewed into the air and blowing around the world...and we all know what that will cause..the big C for cancer...it will only be a matter of how much and how bad at that point, but "no big deal" won't even be close to any terms used to describe that result.

The Stable Iodide pills (KI) are already being distributed locally, I would suggest that anyone who even thinks for a second that they are going to be in an area that's going to get any radioactive exposure at all that they get and take some too, they are really pretty harmless and won't hurt you if you take the proper amount and don't take them for years and years...I know I have some on hand, they are cheap and effective...I suggest everyone look into them.

The Japanese are performing a very delicate dance here guys...with an extremely fierce, erratic and deadly dance partner...and it's not Kabuki theater this time, it's very real...and if they trip....well...the results aren't going to be mere broken bones, it's going to be much much worse...so wish them luck...because we all need it on this one....

Some extra reading materials:

[link to english.kyodonews.jp]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to www.epa.gov]
 Quoting: SHR


I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS TO ASK YOU:-

1))-- Why can't they just take out the uranium fuel out of the core to stop the reaction.

2))-- And if water is not fulfilling the purpose of colling sufficiently then they should also try to use ice. Technology is now very improved now (not only to make ice they can also use high speed transport to carry ice from cold places and yeah they will need colling system too so that ice do not loose its temperature that much.
Anonymous Coward
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03/23/2011 08:53 PM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
FOX NEWS ALERT ON TV JUST NOW

EMERGENCY AT SECOND REACTOR

NO FURTHER DETAILS

announced by japan i believe he said

yikes
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1293190


Sky news now = ALERT
Anonymous Coward
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03/25/2011 07:32 AM
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Re: Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan and possible meltdown coming.
FOX NEWS ALERT ON TV JUST NOW

EMERGENCY AT SECOND REACTOR

NO FURTHER DETAILS

announced by japan i believe he said

yikes
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1293190


Sky news now = ALERT
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1298657


I am unable to find any news from 23/3/2011 regarding the smoke and possible new explosion on that date. I could not find the story on SKY news or YT. Is there a thread?

News