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CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/23/2011 06:42 PM
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CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
My apologies to those who have already seen this. I thought it deserved its own thread...

Were you aware that many particle accelerators, especially CERN, have the capability to produce very powerful neutrino beams? Did you know that they actually send these beams through the earth to neutrino detectors stationed hundreds of miles away? Everyone seems to be worried about the energies of particles colliding in the LHC but to me, the real worry may be the neutrino beam and what it might be doing to the Earth.

A little background (skip to conclusion if you don't want to read all the details)...

What is a neutrino?

Neutrinos (more precisely, anti-neutrinos) were postulated by Pauli as a means of preserving the conservation of energy involved in the beta-decay of a neutron:

n ---> p+ + e- + v-e*

where v-e* is the symbol for the electron anti-neutrino. It is a neutral, almost massless particle that carries away some of the energy when a neutron decays into a proton and an electron.

The solar furnace produces electron neutrinos by fusion of protons in its core according to the following reaction:

p+ + p+ ---> 4-He + e- + v-e

where v-e is the symbol for the electron neutrino.

Due to it's small size and absence of electric charge, the neutrino is very difficult to detect at low energies because it hardly interacts with matter. However, as the energy goes up, the probability of neutrinos interacting with matter goes up as well (note that this does not necessarily imply that the probability of detecting neutrinos goes up - it depends on how you are looking for them).

Neutrino flavors

The electron has higher energy analogs known as the muon and tau lepton. These particles can decay into an electron by emitting correspondingly higher energy neutrinos. The reactions are:

u ---> e- + v-u + v-e*
tau ---> e- + v-tau + v-e*

where u is the muon and v-u is the muon-neutrino; and tau is the tau lepton and v-tau is the tau-neutrino. The energies of naturally produced neutrinos rank as v-e < v-mu < v-tau.

As early as the 1960s experiments were setup to detect neutrinos emitted from the sun. Due to the low energy of the solar neutrinos, the detectors had to be absolutely huge. They were typically located deep underground to shield the effects of cosmic rays. The detectors consisted of huge tanks filled with a chlorinated organic liquid. When a neutrino struck one of the chlorine atoms in the tank, it converted it to argon gas, which could be very accurately measured. However, these detectors and variations thereof could only detect the lowest energy electron neutrinos coming from the sun. The results of every experiment revealed that the flux of electron neutrinos from the sun was only a fraction of that predicted by the solar model. This left scientists scratching their heads for many years.

Neutrino oscillation

In an attempt to explain the shortfall of electron neutrinos coming from the sun, a theory was proposed that allowed the flavor of neutrinos to oscillate as they pass through matter. According to this theory, as electron neutrinos make their way from the sun's core to the surface, they pass through a whole lot of matter and some fraction of them change from electron neutrinos to muon-neutrinos in the process. So, the first order of business was to try to detect muon-neutrinos coming from the sun.

The search for the muon-neutrino

In the 1980s the search for the muon-neutrino was underway. New detectors were built for this purpose. The new detectors used large tanks of water or heavy water lined with thousands of photomultiplier tubes to detect the tiny flash of light emitted when a neutrino struck an electron in the tank. The advantages of this technique were that it provided real-time detection of neutrinos, their energies and the direction from which they originated. It wasn't long before muon-neutrinos were detected, which provided strong support for the oscillation theory. However, more testing was needed to definitively show that neutrinos can change flavor in flight.

Particle accelerators save the day

Here is where the story gets a little scary...

So scientists conceived of a brilliant way to show that neutrinos change flavor in flight. If they could fire a beam of known neutrinos at one of the deeply buried detectors then they could compare what is detected to what was shot at the detector. In the mid-90s, the Fermi lab accelerator was used for this purpose. It produced a beam of muon-neutrinos that was aimed through the earth at a detector hundreds of miles away. Sure enough, by the time the muon-neutrinos reached the detector a large fraction of them had converted into electron-neutrinos. This pretty much sealed the deal for the oscillation theory.

Conclusion

The serious problem I see with all of this is that particle accelerators have routinely been shooting high energy neutrinos into the earth for many years now. The CERN accelerator fires a neutrino beam with an energy of 17 GeV right through the earth all the way to a detector in Italy ( [link to arxiv.org] Compare this to the maximum energy of neutrinos emitted by the sun - only 20 MeV ( [link to lappweb06.in2p3.fr] This means that CERN is bombarding the earth with neutrinos that are nearly 1000 times more energetic than what we receive from the sun! Moreover, these are muon-neutrinos. There is no known cosmic source of muon-neutrinos hitting the earth at such high energy.

Are you following me? The earth is being hit by the rare muon-neutrino at very high energy. Remember that the higher the energy, the more likely the neutrino is to interact with matter. What might be the effects on the earth? Could it be possible that this type/energy neutrino might influence the rate of radioactive decay of isotopes in the earth? There is already some evidence that neutrinos can have this kind of effect ( [link to news.stanford.edu]

Personally, I would find it very poetic (albeit frightening and disturbing) if such a subtle energy form unleashed by man were to destroy our earth. This unbelivably tiny and almost massless particle may end up being the ghost that haunts us all.
X
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03/23/2011 06:48 PM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
Geo netrino earth's dynamo...

Earth's interior heating mechanisms revealed through neutrinos ...
Mar 11, 2010 ... Geo-neutrinos are anti-neutrinos produced in radioactive decays of naturally ... and the geo-dynamo that creates the Earth's magnetic field. ...
www.symmetrymagazine.org/.../earths-interior-heating-mechanis​ms-revealed-through-neutrinos/ - Cached
Anonymous Coward
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03/23/2011 06:50 PM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
that's right. they're cranking that collider up to blast a hole through the fabric of space-time and the entire universe will then be sucked into the void in one big "shwooooosh"
Anonymous Coward
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03/23/2011 06:50 PM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
Good points. I've been concerned about it for a while too.

Scientists claim it's safe, meanwhile they admit they don't know exactly what will happen.

It's an area of research I want to delve into more. Much appreciated for the info.
PSSZZZ
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05/02/2011 12:23 PM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
What are the odds that a nuke will go off in Geneva real soon? But it be a setup by the powers that be to destroy cern lhc, but to blame it on the terrorists . But tptb will actually be behind it. Hmmm, I wonder what a convienent coincedence for them to make happen.


tptb will say that the terrorists did it as retaliation to bin laden supposedly killed.


but the powers that be will actually be the ones that set off the nuke.
PSSZZZ
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05/05/2011 02:35 PM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
[link to www.cerntruth.com]


[link to science.nasa.gov]


PSSZZZ
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5/5/2011 1:13 PM
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[link to science.nasa.gov]



NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment May 4, 2011: Einstein was right again. There is a space-time vortex around Earth, and its shape precisely matches the predictions of Einstein's theory of gravity.

Researchers confirmed these points at a press conference today at NASA headquarters where they announced the long-awaited results of Gravity Probe B (GP-B).

"The space-time around Earth appears to be distorted just as general relativity predicts," says Stanford University physicist Francis Everitt, principal investigator of the Gravity Probe B mission.


An artist's concept of GP-B measuring the curved spacetime around Earth. [more]
"This is an epic result," adds Clifford Will of Washington University in St. Louis. An expert in Einstein's theories, Will chairs an independent panel of the National Research Council set up by NASA in 1998 to monitor and review the results of Gravity Probe B. "One day," he predicts, "this will be written up in textbooks as one of the classic experiments in the history of physics."

Time and space, according to Einstein's theories of relativity, are woven together, forming a four-dimensional fabric called "space-time." The mass of Earth dimples this fabric, much like a heavy person sitting in the middle of a trampoline. Gravity, says Einstein, is simply the motion of objects following the curvaceous lines of the dimple.

If Earth were stationary, that would be the end of the story. But Earth is not stationary. Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl. This is what GP-B went to space in 2004 to check.

The idea behind the experiment is simple:

Put a spinning gyroscope into orbit around the Earth, with the spin axis pointed toward some distant star as a fixed reference point. Free from external forces, the gyroscope's axis should continue pointing at the star--forever. But if space is twisted, the direction of the gyroscope's axis should drift over time. By noting this change in direction relative to the star, the twists of space-time could be measured.

In practice, the experiment is tremendously difficult.


One of the super-spherical gyroscopes of Gravity Probe B. [more] The four gyroscopes in GP-B are the most perfect spheres ever made by humans. These ping pong-sized balls of fused quartz and silicon are 1.5 inches across and never vary from a perfect sphere by more than 40 atomic layers. If the gyroscopes weren't so spherical, their spin axes would wobble even without the effects of relativity.

According to calculations, the twisted space-time around Earth should cause the axes of the gyros to drift merely 0.041 arcseconds over a year. An arcsecond is 1/3600th of a degree. To measure this angle reasonably well, GP-B needed a fantastic precision of 0.0005 arcseconds. It's like measuring the thickness of a sheet of paper held edge-on 100 miles away.

"GP-B researchers had to invent whole new technologies to make this possible," notes Will.

They developed a "drag free" satellite that could brush against the outer layers of Earth's atmosphere without disturbing the gyros. They figured out how to keep Earth's magnetic field from penetrating the spacecraft. And they created a device to measure the spin of a gyro--without touching the gyro. More information about these technologies may be found in the Science@NASA story "A Pocket of Near-Perfection."

Pulling off the experiment was an exceptional challenge. But after a year of data-taking and nearly five years of analysis, the GP-B scientists appear to have done it.

"We measured a geodetic precession of 6.600 plus or minus 0.017 arcseconds and a frame dragging effect of 0.039 plus or minus 0.007 arcseconds," says Everitt.

For readers who are not experts in relativity: Geodetic precession is the amount of wobble caused by the static mass of the Earth (the dimple in spacetime) and the frame dragging effect is the amount of wobble caused by the spin of the Earth (the twist in spacetime). Both values are in precise accord with Einstein's predictions.

"In the opinion of the committee that I chair, this effort was truly heroic. We were just blown away," says Will.


An artist's concept of twisted spacetime around a black hole. Credit: Joe Bergeron of Sky & Telescope magazine. The results of Gravity Probe B give physicists renewed confidence that the strange predictions of Einstein's theory are indeed correct, and that these predictions may be applied elsewhere. The type of spacetime vortex that exists around Earth is duplicated and magnified elsewhere in the cosmos--around massive neutron stars, black holes, and active galactic nuclei.

"If you tried to spin a gyroscope in the severely twisted space-time around a black hole," says Will, "it wouldn't just gently precess by a fraction of a degree. It would wobble crazily and possibly even flip over."

In binary black hole systems--that is, where one black hole orbits another black hole--the black holes themselves are spinning and thus behave like gyroscopes. Imagine a system of orbiting, spinning, wobbling, flipping black holes! That's the sort of thing general relativity predicts and which GP-B tells us can really be true.

The scientific legacy of GP-B isn't limited to general relativity. The project also touched the lives of hundreds of young scientists:

"Because it was based at a university many students were able to work on the project," says Everitt. "More than 86 PhD theses at Stanford plus 14 more at other Universities were granted to students working on GP-B. Several hundred undergraduates and 55 high-school students also participated, including astronaut Sally Ride and eventual Nobel Laureate Eric Cornell."

NASA funding for Gravity Probe B began in the fall of 1963. That means Everitt and some colleagues have been planning, promoting, building, operating, and analyzing data from the experiment for more than 47 years—truly, an epic effort.

What's next?

Everitt recalls some advice given to him by his thesis advisor and Nobel Laureate Patrick M.S. Blackett: "If you can't think of what physics to do next, invent some new technology, and it will lead to new physics."

"Well," says Everitt, "we invented 13 new technologies for Gravity Probe B. Who knows where they will take us?"

This epic might just be getting started, after all….

*********************************************************


THIS IS A TRICK BEING PROPAGTED BY THOSE AT NASA WHICH ARE ALLIED WITH CERN LHC !!

THIS THEORY OF EINSTEIN'S WAS NOT INTERPRETED LIKE THIS BEFORE THIS SPACE TIME VORTEX WAS DISCOVERED IN PAST 15 MONTHS. THEY KNOW THAT THIS SPACE TIME VORTEX IS A RESULT OF PARTICLE PHYSICS EXPERIMENTATION AT CERN LHC AND THEY ARE TWISTING THIS THEORY OF EINSTEIN'S TO MAKE THIS NEW VORTEX AROUND EARTH LOOK LIKE IT'S NATURAL SO THEY CAN CLAIM IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CERN LHC WHEN THE SHIT HITS THE FAN AND THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT CERN LHC COMES TO LIGHT IN ALL PUBLIC FORUMS ACROSS THE PLANET THIS SUMMER. AND THEY KNOW IT, AND THAT'S WHY THEY ARE USING THESE DECEPTIONS AND ATTEMPTING TO CONVINCE EVERYONE OTHERWISE!
DON'T FALL FOR IT, LISTEN TO THE TRUTH THAT I HAVE BEEN REVEALING AND YOU WILL BE OK.

PSSZZZ
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5/5/2011 1:21 PM
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This report is just like the report that NASA came out with a few months ago claiming that thunderstorms produce antimatter,another deception !!!!
Anonymous Coward
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05/05/2011 02:37 PM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
damnedand i know they do diabolical things with it. and i suspect they have been running it wide open along with haarp to create all the mayhem going on right now to the planet.
and maybe to the sun too, it's been acting very weird and hostile lately.
those monsters.
cern
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05/05/2011 02:39 PM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
OMG look at this news i just got from the sidebar here. chilling.
[link to www.popsci.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/05/2011 02:57 PM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
let me just throw this in here...
there is a CERN place in illinois that sends the world's largest neutrino beam underground to a place in northern minnesota that used to be a coal mine (that has a very interesting history on who used to own it).
this lab, i can't remember the names of these places but they are easy to find on google, coincidentally caught FIRE around the same time as the japan earthquake stuff was starting. it burned for 3 days. it hardly made news.
this lab was the 1st place ever to find "dark matter"
and they have the creepiest mural that rivals the denver airport's. the place looks like the hatch in Lost, mural and all. very weird.

anyway, when i read this about this beam being so powerful it made me feel uneasy as i live in the "path" of this beam from illinois to minnesota.
it doesn't make me feel comfortable, to put it lightly.
PSSZZZ
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05/06/2011 09:53 AM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
let me just throw this in here...
there is a CERN place in illinois that sends the world's largest neutrino beam underground to a place in northern minnesota that used to be a coal mine (that has a very interesting history on who used to own it).
this lab, i can't remember the names of these places but they are easy to find on google, coincidentally caught FIRE around the same time as the japan earthquake stuff was starting. it burned for 3 days. it hardly made news.
this lab was the 1st place ever to find "dark matter"
and they have the creepiest mural that rivals the denver airport's. the place looks like the hatch in Lost, mural and all. very weird.

anyway, when i read this about this beam being so powerful it made me feel uneasy as i live in the "path" of this beam from illinois to minnesota.
it doesn't make me feel comfortable, to put it lightly.
 Quoting: voog


Fermilab is the place you are thinking about, and they weren't the first to discover dark matter. They were the first to confirm(but they didn't produce any dark matter) the existence of dark matter threw a series of tests that concluded that dark matter must exist. And as far as I know,( and I have alot of close connections)fermilab was scheduled to close operations between March and August of this year.
Anonymous Coward
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05/06/2011 09:57 AM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
The energies we play with are nothing compared to what goes on somewhat closer to the middle of our milkyway.
I think neutrino rays from within our milkyway hit us now and again too. robably some much more powerful then what we do.
Anonymous Coward
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05/06/2011 10:07 AM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
OP what does the following mean for dummies?
Implications of what sort?

Could it be possible that this type/energy neutrino might influence the rate of radioactive decay of isotopes in the earth?
PSSZZZ
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05/11/2011 11:21 AM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
[link to www.cerntruth.com]


[link to science.nasa.gov]


PSSZZZ
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5/5/2011 1:13 PM
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Report Copyright Violation Re: THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT CERN LHC AND SOLAR CRAZINESS AND QUAKES Quote [+] #

[link to science.nasa.gov]



NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment May 4, 2011: Einstein was right again. There is a space-time vortex around Earth, and its shape precisely matches the predictions of Einstein's theory of gravity.

Researchers confirmed these points at a press conference today at NASA headquarters where they announced the long-awaited results of Gravity Probe B (GP-B).

"The space-time around Earth appears to be distorted just as general relativity predicts," says Stanford University physicist Francis Everitt, principal investigator of the Gravity Probe B mission.


An artist's concept of GP-B measuring the curved spacetime around Earth. [more]
"This is an epic result," adds Clifford Will of Washington University in St. Louis. An expert in Einstein's theories, Will chairs an independent panel of the National Research Council set up by NASA in 1998 to monitor and review the results of Gravity Probe B. "One day," he predicts, "this will be written up in textbooks as one of the classic experiments in the history of physics."

Time and space, according to Einstein's theories of relativity, are woven together, forming a four-dimensional fabric called "space-time." The mass of Earth dimples this fabric, much like a heavy person sitting in the middle of a trampoline. Gravity, says Einstein, is simply the motion of objects following the curvaceous lines of the dimple.

If Earth were stationary, that would be the end of the story. But Earth is not stationary. Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl. This is what GP-B went to space in 2004 to check.

The idea behind the experiment is simple:

Put a spinning gyroscope into orbit around the Earth, with the spin axis pointed toward some distant star as a fixed reference point. Free from external forces, the gyroscope's axis should continue pointing at the star--forever. But if space is twisted, the direction of the gyroscope's axis should drift over time. By noting this change in direction relative to the star, the twists of space-time could be measured.

In practice, the experiment is tremendously difficult.


One of the super-spherical gyroscopes of Gravity Probe B. [more] The four gyroscopes in GP-B are the most perfect spheres ever made by humans. These ping pong-sized balls of fused quartz and silicon are 1.5 inches across and never vary from a perfect sphere by more than 40 atomic layers. If the gyroscopes weren't so spherical, their spin axes would wobble even without the effects of relativity.

According to calculations, the twisted space-time around Earth should cause the axes of the gyros to drift merely 0.041 arcseconds over a year. An arcsecond is 1/3600th of a degree. To measure this angle reasonably well, GP-B needed a fantastic precision of 0.0005 arcseconds. It's like measuring the thickness of a sheet of paper held edge-on 100 miles away.

"GP-B researchers had to invent whole new technologies to make this possible," notes Will.

They developed a "drag free" satellite that could brush against the outer layers of Earth's atmosphere without disturbing the gyros. They figured out how to keep Earth's magnetic field from penetrating the spacecraft. And they created a device to measure the spin of a gyro--without touching the gyro. More information about these technologies may be found in the Science@NASA story "A Pocket of Near-Perfection."

Pulling off the experiment was an exceptional challenge. But after a year of data-taking and nearly five years of analysis, the GP-B scientists appear to have done it.

"We measured a geodetic precession of 6.600 plus or minus 0.017 arcseconds and a frame dragging effect of 0.039 plus or minus 0.007 arcseconds," says Everitt.

For readers who are not experts in relativity: Geodetic precession is the amount of wobble caused by the static mass of the Earth (the dimple in spacetime) and the frame dragging effect is the amount of wobble caused by the spin of the Earth (the twist in spacetime). Both values are in precise accord with Einstein's predictions.

"In the opinion of the committee that I chair, this effort was truly heroic. We were just blown away," says Will.


An artist's concept of twisted spacetime around a black hole. Credit: Joe Bergeron of Sky & Telescope magazine. The results of Gravity Probe B give physicists renewed confidence that the strange predictions of Einstein's theory are indeed correct, and that these predictions may be applied elsewhere. The type of spacetime vortex that exists around Earth is duplicated and magnified elsewhere in the cosmos--around massive neutron stars, black holes, and active galactic nuclei.

"If you tried to spin a gyroscope in the severely twisted space-time around a black hole," says Will, "it wouldn't just gently precess by a fraction of a degree. It would wobble crazily and possibly even flip over."

In binary black hole systems--that is, where one black hole orbits another black hole--the black holes themselves are spinning and thus behave like gyroscopes. Imagine a system of orbiting, spinning, wobbling, flipping black holes! That's the sort of thing general relativity predicts and which GP-B tells us can really be true.

The scientific legacy of GP-B isn't limited to general relativity. The project also touched the lives of hundreds of young scientists:

"Because it was based at a university many students were able to work on the project," says Everitt. "More than 86 PhD theses at Stanford plus 14 more at other Universities were granted to students working on GP-B. Several hundred undergraduates and 55 high-school students also participated, including astronaut Sally Ride and eventual Nobel Laureate Eric Cornell."

NASA funding for Gravity Probe B began in the fall of 1963. That means Everitt and some colleagues have been planning, promoting, building, operating, and analyzing data from the experiment for more than 47 years—truly, an epic effort.

What's next?

Everitt recalls some advice given to him by his thesis advisor and Nobel Laureate Patrick M.S. Blackett: "If you can't think of what physics to do next, invent some new technology, and it will lead to new physics."

"Well," says Everitt, "we invented 13 new technologies for Gravity Probe B. Who knows where they will take us?"

This epic might just be getting started, after all….

*********************************************************


THIS IS A TRICK BEING PROPAGTED BY THOSE AT NASA WHICH ARE ALLIED WITH CERN LHC !!

THIS THEORY OF EINSTEIN'S WAS NOT INTERPRETED LIKE THIS BEFORE THIS SPACE TIME VORTEX WAS DISCOVERED IN PAST 15 MONTHS. THEY KNOW THAT THIS SPACE TIME VORTEX IS A RESULT OF PARTICLE PHYSICS EXPERIMENTATION AT CERN LHC AND THEY ARE TWISTING THIS THEORY OF EINSTEIN'S TO MAKE THIS NEW VORTEX AROUND EARTH LOOK LIKE IT'S NATURAL SO THEY CAN CLAIM IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CERN LHC WHEN THE SHIT HITS THE FAN AND THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT CERN LHC COMES TO LIGHT IN ALL PUBLIC FORUMS ACROSS THE PLANET THIS SUMMER. AND THEY KNOW IT, AND THAT'S WHY THEY ARE USING THESE DECEPTIONS AND ATTEMPTING TO CONVINCE EVERYONE OTHERWISE!
DON'T FALL FOR IT, LISTEN TO THE TRUTH THAT I HAVE BEEN REVEALING AND YOU WILL BE OK.

PSSZZZ
User ID: 1299980
United States
5/5/2011 1:21 PM
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Report Copyright Violation Re: THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT CERN LHC AND SOLAR CRAZINESS AND QUAKES Quote [+] #

This report is just like the report that NASA came out with a few months ago claiming that thunderstorms produce antimatter,another deception !!!!
 Quoting: PSSZZZ 1299980


bump
PSSZZZ
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05/24/2011 09:57 PM
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Re: CERN: Neutrino beam is 1000x more powerful than the sun!
TONIGHT IS LOOKING TO BE JUST LIKE I HAD SAID!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO ME!!!!! ALL OF YOU WHO IGNORED MY WARNINGS SHOULD HAVEN'T MADE THAT CRITICAL ERROR!!! NOW YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT!!!!! AND MOSTLY EVERYONE ELSE !!!!!!!

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