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When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?

 
Anonymous Coward
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When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
The timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation is one of the most controversial issues in the church today. The three primary views are pre-tribulational (the rapture occurs before the tribulation), mid-tribulational (the rapture occurs at or near the mid-point of the tribulation), and post-tribulational (the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation). A fourth view, commonly known as pre-wrath, is a slight modification of the mid-tribulational position.

First, it is important to recognize the purpose of the tribulation. According to Daniel 9:27, there is a seventieth “seven” (seven years) that is still yet to come. Daniel’s entire prophecy of the seventy sevens (Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth seven, the tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time.

The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The rapture is God’s removing His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.

Another crucial passage on the timing of the rapture is Revelation 3:10, in which Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. This could mean two things. Either Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or He will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept from. It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the tribulation. The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation.

hf
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2011 11:45 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
after it.
LEGION, FOR THERE ARE MANY
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03/28/2011 11:49 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
The Rapture happens before the tribulation.

Just before the anti-Christ is known, the Rapture occurs.

LEGION
A Voice In The Wilderness

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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
after it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1318612


Smartest thing in this thread so far.

There is no secret rapture.

Revelation 3:10 uses the Greek word, "tereo", which the KJV translates as "keep". This Greek word literally means "to attend to carefully, take care of, to guard." It does not mean to 'snatch away'.

Matthew 24 is clear on the fact that the tribulation happens, and THEN the elect are taken up to be forever with the Lord.
The Truth About Thread: The FINAL EVENTS Of Bible Prophecy

"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist." - Martin Luther (Aug. 18, 1520)

"While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's Word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light" (The Great Controversy, p. 527).

"Jesus did not come to change the law, but he came to explain it, and that very fact shows that it remains, for there is no need to explain that which is abrogated." - Charles Spurgeon

"Jesuit Adam Weishaupt established the modern version of the Illuminati specifically to be a front organization behind which the Jesuits could hide. After being formally abolished by Pope Clement XIV in 1773, the Jesuits used the Illuminati and other organizations to carry out their operations. Thus, the front organizations would be blamed for the trouble caused by the Jesuits."
Bill Hughes (Author of The Secret Terrorists and The Enemy Unmasked)
DeadRabbit

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03/28/2011 11:59 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
The Rapture is not in the Bible, try reading it sometime.
"In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in it's hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility... I welcome it." John F Kennedy
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 12:04 AM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
The Rapture is not in the Bible, try reading it sometime.
 Quoting: DeadRabbit


Exactly right. These morons that think they're going to be Vacu-sucked off the planet so they can avoid all the terror that's about to happen are living a bigger fantasy than the 72 Virgins hoax the jihadist Muslims play on their followers.

Delusion is a contagious and deadly disease.
A Voice In The Wilderness

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03/29/2011 12:06 AM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
The Rapture is not in the Bible, try reading it sometime.
 Quoting: DeadRabbit


Agreed.

Those who believe in a secret rapture will be quite surprised and their faith either destroyed or utterly shaken when the global crisis hits and they realize they are still here...
The Truth About Thread: The FINAL EVENTS Of Bible Prophecy

"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist." - Martin Luther (Aug. 18, 1520)

"While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's Word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light" (The Great Controversy, p. 527).

"Jesus did not come to change the law, but he came to explain it, and that very fact shows that it remains, for there is no need to explain that which is abrogated." - Charles Spurgeon

"Jesuit Adam Weishaupt established the modern version of the Illuminati specifically to be a front organization behind which the Jesuits could hide. After being formally abolished by Pope Clement XIV in 1773, the Jesuits used the Illuminati and other organizations to carry out their operations. Thus, the front organizations would be blamed for the trouble caused by the Jesuits."
Bill Hughes (Author of The Secret Terrorists and The Enemy Unmasked)
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 08:37 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
Interesting video on the timing of the Rapture. BTW, I've gone to see this Pastor, he's pretty good. He's from Winnipeg, Canada.


Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 08:40 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
Here's a link to the church he heads and they have an online half hour service every Sunday. It's always Great!

[link to www.churchoftherock.ca]
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 08:41 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
The Rapture is not in the Bible, try reading it sometime.
 Quoting: DeadRabbit


this
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 08:44 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
Cool, just went to the link and Pastor Mark is covering "The End of the World As We Know It". Going to go watch it! rockon
Comedian

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03/29/2011 09:36 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
There is no magical holy Federation transporter that is going to beam us away from the grief that is about to hit.

God has never removed the chosen from grief, just protected them through it. Or given them strength to experience it.

See Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego (or Moses, or Noah, or the apostles) for examples of how Divine protection through tribulation always works.
Don't run. You'll just die tired.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
Cool, just went to the link and Pastor Mark is covering "The End of the World As We Know It". Going to go watch it! rockon
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1073754


It was EXCELLENT! Worth the watch. hf
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 09:43 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
Here's the link again if you're interested, 28 mins long.

Just click thumb that says "watch online" at link.

[link to www.churchoftherock.ca]
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 09:45 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
There is no magical holy Federation transporter that is going to beam us away from the grief that is about to hit.

God has never removed the chosen from grief, just protected them through it. Or given them strength to experience it.

See Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego (or Moses, or Noah, or the apostles) for examples of how Divine protection through tribulation always works.
 Quoting: Comedian


Right on, so true bro.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
There is no magical holy Federation transporter that is going to beam us away from the grief that is about to hit.

God has never removed the chosen from grief, just protected them through it. Or given them strength to experience it.

See Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego (or Moses, or Noah, or the apostles) for examples of how Divine protection through tribulation always works.
 Quoting: Comedian


hf
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 09:48 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1303566



What about this?

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
-- Matthew 24:21


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
-- Matthew 24:29-31
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 09:52 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
The 'Rapture' is the same type of irrational escapism based mentality as is the notion of 'Ascension'.

'Ascension' is nothing but the 'Rapture' with a new age twist, for a new audience.

Neither is going to occur, now or any time soon; not even after a long time either.

5a
Sword0fGideon

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03/29/2011 09:54 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
remember that part, first the dead will rise and then those who do live???

now, read revelations, there are 2 dead men, witnesses. when did those dead witnesses rise?

how many times do you think Jesus will return to raise the dead? once?
Christians have had to face and realize their own sins, and feel compelled to try and help others as well.

This chant of Holier than thou is wrong and is taught by others making you think what is cool or acceptable to them.

The thought of "believe as i do" is strongly in an unbelievers life, because they feel they will be ridiculed by their friends.

Every falsehood a unbeliver weilds, is merely a reflection of the obstacles that unbeliever must face from his very own peers.

Unbelievers are the true followers, they are dedicated to fear of what other people think of them.

And because of this, they are ashamed of themselves, but wall themselves up to feel comfortable and safe, assuring themselves with rationality and laughter.

Which is insanity!
oxxxxx§:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+>
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 09:55 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1303566


It isn't. Your religion is a lie. It's just unfortunate that you're going to find that out the most difficult way possible: the HARD way.
Bugsy Moran

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03/29/2011 09:56 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
WHERE is the Raptor-tribbing? I see no raptor tribbing here and I am disappoint!
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 10:10 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
Jesus says "as in the days of Noah" so shall also the coming of the son of man be. In Noah's day they were eating and drinking marrying and planting and building. Basically going about their normal lives up until Noah entered into the ark and the flood came and swept them all away.

Can someone tell me how in the world this will be going on when the universe is collapsing. Have you people read the horror which is unfolding in the book of revelation as God opens his seals, trumpets and bowls? It is not a campfire he is stoking up here folks. It is global and catastrophic. So catastrophic even the angels are claiming Woe!

I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, I will admit, but I cannot imagine people going about their daily business as these events are unfolding globally.

This suggest to me, that someone is taken out (harpazo).

There are many clues in scripture which suggest such an event. And there is much information for people to examine.

Either way, rapture or not. All one can do is continue to trust in The Father and The Son for all things.

peace,
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 10:11 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1303566


It isn't. Your religion is a lie. It's just unfortunate that you're going to find that out the most difficult way possible: the HARD way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1314960


No!

The Apostle Peter, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, knew that people in the last days would use the seeming delay of our Lord’s return as a means by which they might scoff at the Biblical teaching of coming judgment. And thus, in the third chapter of his second epistle, Peter felt the necessity of writing to warn Christians not to be deceived by scoffers …

In 2 Peter 3:3, we read that “There shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts.” A scoffer is someone who treats lightly that which ought to be taken seriously.

The people in Noah’s day scoffed at the idea of a Flood, and the citizens of Sodom scoffed at the possibility of fire and brimstone destroying their sinful city. In this verse, the scoffers referred to by Peter are those people who refuse to take the Bible seriously when it speaks about Christ’s return and the certainty of judgment.

It is apparent that there are many scoffers in the world today—not only those who openly deny the end-time events, but also those who by their ungodly lifestyles imply that the Biblical teaching concerning our Lord’s return and coming judgment should not be taken seriously.


[link to www.sermonindex.net]
Sword0fGideon

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03/29/2011 10:15 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
Jesus says "as in the days of Noah" so shall also the coming of the son of man be. In Noah's day they were eating and drinking marrying and planting and building. Basically going about their normal lives up until Noah entered into the ark and the flood came and swept them all away.

Can someone tell me how in the world this will be going on when the universe is collapsing. Have you people read the horror which is unfolding in the book of revelation as God opens his seals, trumpets and bowls? It is not a campfire he is stoking up here folks. It is global and catastrophic. So catastrophic even the angels are claiming Woe!

I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, I will admit, but I cannot imagine people going about their daily business as these events are unfolding globally.

This suggest to me, that someone is taken out (harpazo).

There are many clues in scripture which suggest such an event. And there is much information for people to examine.

Either way, rapture or not. All one can do is continue to trust in The Father and The Son for all things.

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


it comes after that 7 year peace treaty is signed. everyone will say peace peace but their destruction comes quickly.

its a false peace, and during that false peace people will be dying of all sorts of stuff including war. remember he is given power to make war with the saints as well.
Christians have had to face and realize their own sins, and feel compelled to try and help others as well.

This chant of Holier than thou is wrong and is taught by others making you think what is cool or acceptable to them.

The thought of "believe as i do" is strongly in an unbelievers life, because they feel they will be ridiculed by their friends.

Every falsehood a unbeliver weilds, is merely a reflection of the obstacles that unbeliever must face from his very own peers.

Unbelievers are the true followers, they are dedicated to fear of what other people think of them.

And because of this, they are ashamed of themselves, but wall themselves up to feel comfortable and safe, assuring themselves with rationality and laughter.

Which is insanity!
oxxxxx§:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+>
tkwasny

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03/29/2011 10:18 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
If the Son of God asked the Father for "this cup to pass", what makes you think your so much more important that you too will not go through to the end. Whatever the means of that end is, die in your sleep of old age, or in a catastrophe doom event.

Last Edited by tkwasny on 03/29/2011 10:20 PM
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 10:23 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
Jesus says "as in the days of Noah" so shall also the coming of the son of man be. In Noah's day they were eating and drinking marrying and planting and building. Basically going about their normal lives up until Noah entered into the ark and the flood came and swept them all away.

Can someone tell me how in the world this will be going on when the universe is collapsing. Have you people read the horror which is unfolding in the book of revelation as God opens his seals, trumpets and bowls? It is not a campfire he is stoking up here folks. It is global and catastrophic. So catastrophic even the angels are claiming Woe!

I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, I will admit, but I cannot imagine people going about their daily business as these events are unfolding globally.

This suggest to me, that someone is taken out (harpazo).

There are many clues in scripture which suggest such an event. And there is much information for people to examine.

Either way, rapture or not. All one can do is continue to trust in The Father and The Son for all things.

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


it comes after that 7 year peace treaty is signed. everyone will say peace peace but their destruction comes quickly.

its a false peace, and during that false peace people will be dying of all sorts of stuff including war. remember he is given power to make war with the saints as well.
 Quoting: Sword0fGideon


Indeed, and we are told these these 'saints came out of great tribulation'. Perhaps meaning that they came to Christ after these events began unfolding. During the tribulation. We are also told in his letters to the 7 churches that is some do not repent of their ways they will be cast into tribulation. This suggests to me that their are some who will have to endure it. But we see no mention specifically of the church after chapter 4.

If one subscribes to the doctrine of imminency, there is nothing required (prophetically speaking) to precede the LORD coming for his bride. No time is specified, but that the bride would know the season. I also submit that the restrainer mentioned of by Paul is the Spirit of Christ (in his bride) which is 'taken out of the way' prior to the revealing of the man of sin. There are, of course, varying views of this, but I subscribe to this one.

I believe Paul wrote his 2nd epistle to the Thessalonians for this very reason. To clarify to them and to comfort them that tribulation had not begun and why it could not have begun (his ordering of events).


peace,
pdot

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03/29/2011 10:23 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
Jesus says "as in the days of Noah" so shall also the coming of the son of man be. In Noah's day they were eating and drinking marrying and planting and building. Basically going about their normal lives up until Noah entered into the ark and the flood came and swept them all away.

Can someone tell me how in the world this will be going on when the universe is collapsing. Have you people read the horror which is unfolding in the book of revelation as God opens his seals, trumpets and bowls? It is not a campfire he is stoking up here folks. It is global and catastrophic. So catastrophic even the angels are claiming Woe!

I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, I will admit, but I cannot imagine people going about their daily business as these events are unfolding globally.

This suggest to me, that someone is taken out (harpazo).

There are many clues in scripture which suggest such an event. And there is much information for people to examine.

Either way, rapture or not. All one can do is continue to trust in The Father and The Son for all things.

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


The days of noah were filled with wickedness, we know most people won't repent ,so yes it will be business as usually.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 10:24 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
If the Son of God asked the Father for "this cup to pass", what makes you think your so much more important that you too will not go through to the end. Whatever the means of that end is, die in your sleep of old age, or in a catastrophe doom event.
 Quoting: tkwasny


If it is the will of the Father, then we shall. But scripture says his children are not appointed to wrath and that is exactly what the great tribulation is. The wrath of God.
Sword0fGideon

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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
i asked the Lord into my life, therefore i will haft to rely upon him to do that which is in my best interest.

i pray that he strengthens me protects and that i remain faithful. if it is his desire for me to go until the end. if it is his will. if he decides otherwise, then its his decision.

but honestly as horrible as it sounds, providing i remain in his presence, i am curious what the 7 thunders said. and seeing the Lord set foot upon the earth in all his glory sounds awesome as well. so, if he is with me i wouldnt mind so much. without him would be death
Christians have had to face and realize their own sins, and feel compelled to try and help others as well.

This chant of Holier than thou is wrong and is taught by others making you think what is cool or acceptable to them.

The thought of "believe as i do" is strongly in an unbelievers life, because they feel they will be ridiculed by their friends.

Every falsehood a unbeliver weilds, is merely a reflection of the obstacles that unbeliever must face from his very own peers.

Unbelievers are the true followers, they are dedicated to fear of what other people think of them.

And because of this, they are ashamed of themselves, but wall themselves up to feel comfortable and safe, assuring themselves with rationality and laughter.

Which is insanity!
oxxxxx§:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+:+>
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 10:26 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
2016

The year but not they day.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2011 10:26 PM
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Re: When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?
[link to biblicaleschatology.org]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

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