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DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 02:30 AM
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DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
(I asked my pastor this and he could not answer it...see if you can)


God is omnipresent is he not??..yes..he IS

He is all knowing..

all powerful..

and NOTHING he does is by mistake..

he CANT make mistakes because he is GOD right??

He is also LOVE..pure and sweet and gentle...loving enough to suffer a very horrible death for us correct??

So answer this question..without quoting a bible verse..answer it with your OWN words.

Back at the start..at the very beginning..before Satan rebelled and fell...God already KNEW he would do so didnt he??

YES..he MUST have..after all..he is ALL knowing.

So satan FELL...

And was cast to earth...

Then just after that God made Man. He also KNEW HE would fall too. He also created and brought into being every human who has ever lived..and he ALSO knew IN ADVANCE..who would serve him and who would not.

Correct??..I MUST be..because God is EVERYWHERE in time at ONCE.

He is also right NOW at the END of time with the book of life sittining right in front of him...seperating sheep from goats...saints from sinners..correct??

I MUST be because God is ALL KNOWING and ALWAYS PRESENT at ALL places in ALL history for ALL TIME..

So..nothing takes God by surprise...correct??

SO WHY then did he create BILLIONS of humans who he KNEW FULL WELL would FALL and NOT follow him??

And more to the point..why did he create eternal fire for those who fell if he KNEW from the start they would fall?

Does he get some sort of kick out of creating creatures he KNEW would not follow him and torturing them alive in flames forever??

So he created them simply and ONLY to BURN.

Please explain.

Remeber..NO bible verses..just your own words.
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 02:40 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
God is the one who created all things, he also Knows all things. Don't you think that he has a plan, that we don't
know about. He said he would win, he already has, so I don't
try to find flaws at every turn.

There is more than humans involved with this plan you know.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/02/2011 02:49 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
God is the one who created all things, he also Knows all things. Don't you think that he has a plan, that we don't
know about. He said he would win, he already has, so I don't
try to find flaws at every turn.

There is more than humans involved with this plan you know.
 Quoting: daughter


But basically you are saying that Gos created billions of people KNOWING he would spend eternity BURNING THEM ALIVE...is that it?
TXGal4Truth

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04/02/2011 02:57 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
God is the one who created all things, he also Knows all things. Don't you think that he has a plan, that we don't
know about. He said he would win, he already has, so I don't
try to find flaws at every turn.

There is more than humans involved with this plan you know.
 Quoting: daughter


But basically you are saying that Gos created billions of people KNOWING he would spend eternity BURNING THEM ALIVE...is that it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324684


U do know that only means to CEASE to exist right?
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
************************************
“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.” ~Isaac Newton
************************************
We are called to be BOLD. ~Joshua 1:9~
************************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Heatrae

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04/02/2011 03:00 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
You could even go farther and ask why God created the angelic order too if he knew beforehand that not only Satan, but 1/3 of all the angels rebelled.

The fact that the angels and us mere mortals have been given a free will to serve God or not is really a test that we must all face. God could have made us without a free will to reject him, but he desires love and fellowship with his creation that comes from the creation's free will or volition, that's why we have a free will.

All of us get untold number of chances in this life to seek and worship God at whatever level of understanding or (light) that we have been given. If we refuse or reject his love and fellowship we show him that we love darkness more that light. Light cannot abide with darkness, that is why those that reject him go to the place of darkness.
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 03:05 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
that is why those that reject him go to the place of darkness.
 Quoting: Heatrae


Bring it on, PAR-TAY! You goody goodys can go sit up in heaven and chuckle over how pretty the clouds look today. I'll be hanging in the darkness with the real individuals, that actually lived a life.. didn't give it away to some celestial dictator lol.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
U do know that only means to CEASE to exist right?

 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


Not really, God created us in His image, that means eternal.

To answer OP's question the only thing that I could suggest is that God did create us in His image, along with that was free will to choose right or wrong. Even though God knew we would choose wrong He decided to create the universe and us and the angels anyway since free will was so important to Him as was His plan of salvation. We do not know the extent of that salvation now, but it must be really, really big for God to have endured the pain of all sin, all time on the cross.

It's all about free will. If you think that God decides everything for us and He predetermines our fate then you can always paint God into the cruel, bad guy who heartlessly condemns us for our sin. But the truth is He gave us the law to reveal our sins to us, and then He gave us the promises of redemption and then He fulfilled all His promises, personally.

Some people see the glass half full, and some see it half empty.
Dr.Green Thumb

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04/02/2011 03:08 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
free will popped in my head
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 03:11 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
2 words FREE WILL
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 03:12 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
There is no free will, only God...good little sheep...keep doing your destiny....
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 03:12 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
You could even go farther and ask why God created the angelic order too if he knew beforehand that not only Satan, but 1/3 of all the angels rebelled.

The fact that the angels and us mere mortals have been given a free will to serve God or not is really a test that we must all face. God could have made us without a free will to reject him, but he desires love and fellowship with his creation that comes from the creation's free will or volition, that's why we have a free will.

All of us get untold number of chances in this life to seek and worship God at whatever level of understanding or (light) that we have been given. If we refuse or reject his love and fellowship we show him that we love darkness more that light. Light cannot abide with darkness, that is why those that reject him go to the place of darkness.
 Quoting: Heatrae


Yes I KNOW all that I was raised in the church.

I know ALL the doctrines BACKWARDS...including all the false ones.

Thus the question..

You did not answer it..you spouted a "Doctrine"...ive heard it.

It LED to this question.

GIOD is already at the end of time standing on the shore of the lake of fire...watching all those he ALWYS KNEW would not follow him being tossed in.

He is ALSO several trillion trillion years in the future CONTINUING to mercilessly torture ALL those he KNEW would not follow him..thinking perhaps that after several zillion years twisting and writhing in aginy they have somehow NOT learnt their lesson...

Fast forward another several trillion zillion years..he stands there still..personally SUSTAINING hell..PACKED with the ones HE created knowing FULLY WELL they would ALWAYS BE IN THIS PLACE RIGHT FROM THE START..and after all this time..he is STILL not satisfied that these onee HE created have been tortured enough..

Several billions eons pass..followed by several trillion more..and he is STILL SUSTAINING ELL AND TORTURE>.because these ones just have NOT een punished ENOUGH...he MUST KEEP PERSONALLY TORTURING THEM FOREVER..cause he KNEW ALL ALONG they just WOULD NOT LEARN...and so ON it goes..endless TORTURE that he PLANNED>.because he is tere RIGHT NOW..in that far distant furture..already torturing you.

He is ALSO there way in the distant past..PLANNING hell..designing every detail of it..every atom..molecule..flicker of flame...he is also in the distant past designing nerve endings to FEEL this speacial agony HE is creating to ROST the ones hw KNOWS will not follow him..their future agont means NOTHING to him.

Is THIS what you beleieve???

It IS>.cause I used to go to church and believe this too,,and I used to get mighty peved when someone said similar tings to me. I used to say the same pat answers I was programmed to say...until the day I learnt to THINK.
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 03:18 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
You could even go farther and ask why God created the angelic order too if he knew beforehand that not only Satan, but 1/3 of all the angels rebelled.

The fact that the angels and us mere mortals have been given a free will to serve God or not is really a test that we must all face. God could have made us without a free will to reject him, but he desires love and fellowship with his creation that comes from the creation's free will or volition, that's why we have a free will.

All of us get untold number of chances in this life to seek and worship God at whatever level of understanding or (light) that we have been given. If we refuse or reject his love and fellowship we show him that we love darkness more that light. Light cannot abide with darkness, that is why those that reject him go to the place of darkness.
 Quoting: Heatrae


Yes I KNOW all that I was raised in the church.

I know ALL the doctrines BACKWARDS...including all the false ones.

Thus the question..

You did not answer it..you spouted a "Doctrine"...ive heard it.

It LED to this question.

GIOD is already at the end of time standing on the shore of the lake of fire...watching all those he ALWYS KNEW would not follow him being tossed in.

He is ALSO several trillion trillion years in the future CONTINUING to mercilessly torture ALL those he KNEW would not follow him..thinking perhaps that after several zillion years twisting and writhing in aginy they have somehow NOT learnt their lesson...

Fast forward another several trillion zillion years..he stands there still..personally SUSTAINING hell..PACKED with the ones HE created knowing FULLY WELL they would ALWAYS BE IN THIS PLACE RIGHT FROM THE START..and after all this time..he is STILL not satisfied that these onee HE created have been tortured enough..

Several billions eons pass..followed by several trillion more..and he is STILL SUSTAINING ELL AND TORTURE>.because these ones just have NOT een punished ENOUGH...he MUST KEEP PERSONALLY TORTURING THEM FOREVER..cause he KNEW ALL ALONG they just WOULD NOT LEARN...and so ON it goes..endless TORTURE that he PLANNED>.because he is tere RIGHT NOW..in that far distant furture..already torturing you.

He is ALSO there way in the distant past..PLANNING hell..designing every detail of it..every atom..molecule..flicker of flame...he is also in the distant past designing nerve endings to FEEL this speacial agony HE is creating to ROST the ones hw KNOWS will not follow him..their future agont means NOTHING to him.

Is THIS what you beleieve???

It IS>.cause I used to go to church and believe this too,,and I used to get mighty peved when someone said similar tings to me. I used to say the same pat answers I was programmed to say...until the day I learnt to THINK.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324722


I had a talk about this with an old professor. His take was essentially that the concepts of such discussion require at minimum a 95-105 IQ. They don't call them "Religotards" for nothing, it is because the majority sit in the 80-85 IQ range. You might as well be speaking total gibberish to these religious ATS posters.
TXGal4Truth

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04/02/2011 03:19 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
There is no free will, only God...good little sheep...keep doing your destiny....
 Quoting: Entangled Luminosity


Who forced you to post on here? damned
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
************************************
“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.” ~Isaac Newton
************************************
We are called to be BOLD. ~Joshua 1:9~
************************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Dr.Green Thumb

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04/02/2011 03:22 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
There is no free will, only God...good little sheep...keep doing your destiny....
 Quoting: Entangled Luminosity


lol than someone misread the title, I believe your looking for the nut job religion its very popular here at GLP, I was talking to another member of your church earlier too!
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 03:23 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
There is no free will, only God...good little sheep...keep doing your destiny....
 Quoting: Entangled Luminosity


Who forced you to post on here? damned
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


God..oh wait...damnit...
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 03:26 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
way too deep for me tonight.... Good questions though.
TXGal4Truth

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04/02/2011 03:26 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
There is no free will, only God...good little sheep...keep doing your destiny....
 Quoting: Entangled Luminosity


Who forced you to post on here? damned
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


God..oh wait...damnit...
 Quoting: Entangled Luminosity


Funny. Oh well, too bad that's not what taking the Lord's name in vain means. :)
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
************************************
“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.” ~Isaac Newton
************************************
We are called to be BOLD. ~Joshua 1:9~
************************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 03:28 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
There is no free will, only God...good little sheep...keep doing your destiny....
 Quoting: Entangled Luminosity


Who forced you to post on here? damned
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


God..oh wait...damnit...
 Quoting: Entangled Luminosity


Funny. Oh well, too bad that's not what taking the Lord's name in vain means. :)
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


The free will conundrum always throws a wrench into the most carefully crafted theory....
quetzalco
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04/02/2011 04:40 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
I am not the clergyman too. I write what I think.

God gave you a free will. You decide which path you walk. He gave you guidelines, He explained what you should do and what you shouldn't. Simple truth, fair agreement. You may choose - eternal life in the beautiful heaven (somewhere in the universe, cosmos..) world with God or a second death.

First death is inevitable for the human (everyone of us), it is the end of our present life. Nobody can avoid that event. Only a few people in history of man avoided human death (for example - Enoch or Elias - according to the Bible), because they were extra obedient, strictly fulfilling the commandments and loving God so much. They were above the rest of people on Earth in being servant of God. And thus they were rewarded.

You can get the same. If you only want that...

However, if your choice will be different from that God wants you to do you will face the second death after the judgement day and this will be your true end.

You decide.

Most of us think that the life on Earth is everything that you can have... So you are so tightly bound to material things, people can kill each other to achieve profits. And you are so afraid of doom. One can see it on this forum. You do not have to be afraid if you're fair and honest man. You are doing such bizarre movements to save your life at any price.. That's all in vein. It is an illusion. All these material issues are fickle, fragile, and eventually pass away.

Be honest, just, righteous man. Wish well to other people, help them, even if you think that nobody can see it. I assure you - ,,someone" is watching you whereever you are and whatever you do, even when you are in the deep, dark cave...

(sorry for my English)
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 04:52 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
God is omnipresent is he not??..yes..he IS
He is all knowing..
all powerful..
and NOTHING he does is by mistake..
he CANT make mistakes because he is GOD right??

He is also LOVE..pure and sweet and gentle...loving enough to suffer a very horrible death for us correct??

So answer this question..without quoting a bible verse..answer it with your OWN words.

Back at the start..at the very beginning..before Satan rebelled and fell...God already KNEW he would do so didnt he??

YES..he MUST have..after all..he is ALL knowing.
So satan FELL...
And was cast to earth...

Then just after that God made Man. He also KNEW HE would fall too. He also created and brought into being every human who has ever lived..and he ALSO knew IN ADVANCE..who would serve him and who would not.

Correct??..I MUST be..because God is EVERYWHERE in time at ONCE.

He is also right NOW at the END of time with the book of life sittining right in front of him...seperating sheep from goats...saints from sinners..correct??

I MUST be because God is ALL KNOWING and ALWAYS PRESENT at ALL places in ALL history for ALL TIME..

So..nothing takes God by surprise...correct??

SO WHY then did he create BILLIONS of humans who he KNEW FULL WELL would FALL and NOT follow him??

And more to the point..why did he create eternal fire for those who fell if he KNEW from the start they would fall?

Does he get some sort of kick out of creating creatures he KNEW would not follow him and torturing them alive in flames forever??

So he created them simply and ONLY to BURN.
Please explain.

Remeber..NO bible verses..just your own words.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324684


You're making up a God that doesn't exist. You have a lot of incorrect assumptions in your post, the most important being that God is all-knowing. He isn't. God does not know what choices you will make with your life. He doesn't know where you'll end up. He can take a pretty good guess and he'll probably be correct, but there is always a bit of room for you to surprise him. Everything else you wrote pretty much falls apart after that.
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
The free will conundrum always throws a wrench into the most carefully crafted theory....
 Quoting: Entangled Luminosity


There is no conundrum. You have free will. God doesn't know what you will do with that free will. No conundrum unless you think that God is all knowing - which he isn't.
Seamus

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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
(I asked my pastor this and he could not answer it...see if you can)


God is omnipresent is he not??..yes..he IS

He is all knowing..

all powerful..

and NOTHING he does is by mistake..

he CANT make mistakes because he is GOD right??

He is also LOVE..pure and sweet and gentle...loving enough to suffer a very horrible death for us correct??

So answer this question..without quoting a bible verse..answer it with your OWN words.

Back at the start..at the very beginning..before Satan rebelled and fell...God already KNEW he would do so didnt he??

YES..he MUST have..after all..he is ALL knowing.

So satan FELL...

And was cast to earth...

Then just after that God made Man. He also KNEW HE would fall too. He also created and brought into being every human who has ever lived..and he ALSO knew IN ADVANCE..who would serve him and who would not.

Correct??..I MUST be..because God is EVERYWHERE in time at ONCE.

He is also right NOW at the END of time with the book of life sittining right in front of him...seperating sheep from goats...saints from sinners..correct??

I MUST be because God is ALL KNOWING and ALWAYS PRESENT at ALL places in ALL history for ALL TIME..

So..nothing takes God by surprise...correct??

SO WHY then did he create BILLIONS of humans who he KNEW FULL WELL would FALL and NOT follow him??

And more to the point..why did he create eternal fire for those who fell if he KNEW from the start they would fall?

Does he get some sort of kick out of creating creatures he KNEW would not follow him and torturing them alive in flames forever??

So he created them simply and ONLY to BURN.

Please explain.

Remeber..NO bible verses..just your own words.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324684


I know. One of the main problems I've had with the entire thing since I was a little boy.

And of course, why did he create Satan in the first place? Knowing the being would lead many to eternal damnation.

The only answer I can come up with is this:

(And I'm not a 'Christian'... agnostic at best)
Duality. God could not himself be evil. But he recognized there were opposites in everything in nature. Therefore there could be no 'good' without a 'bad'; no 'saintly' without 'evil' no 'heaven' without 'hell' no 'creator' without 'destroyer' so he found it necessary to create an entity that would come to define (create?) evil.

And because there's opposites, that meant that some of his creation would have to follow the evil path. To their own damnation? So be it.

But hey, what do I know?
'When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men,
they create for themselves, in the course of time,
a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.'
Frederic Bastiat, 'The Law'
1850

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
JohnSwinton, 1830-1901, Former chief-of-staff New York Times
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"The bold effort the present bank has made to control the Government, the distress it has wantonly produced ... are but premonitions of the fate that awaits the American People should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution (The Bank of the United States), or the establishment of another like it." Andrew Jackson (December 2, 1834)
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2011 05:17 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
God is matter, the rest of space is antimatter, a primordial nothingness. Being vrs not being. This "satan" is the desire to destroy even onself. God is the opposite. God is the desire to create. God could make slave like beings.. angels with no freewill who dont have the ability to make choices. Who are ignorant to the negative side. God decided to roll the dice with us, and give us the ability to choose whether we wanted to be creative or destructive. He is essentially learning through us. God always seeks to learn. He is seeing what free will would do, which side it will choose. They say God knows the outcome. Thats too much for me to comprehend. God knows the outcome of the decisions you make, but how far that extends I do not know. I do know that God manifests himself to every creation in every world hes made but he wasnt crucified in every world. There are more peaceful civilizations in the universe.
wildhoney

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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
(I asked my pastor this and he could not answer it...see if you can)


God is omnipresent is he not??..yes..he IS

He is all knowing..

all powerful..

and NOTHING he does is by mistake..

he CANT make mistakes because he is GOD right??

He is also LOVE..pure and sweet and gentle...loving enough to suffer a very horrible death for us correct??

So answer this question..without quoting a bible verse..answer it with your OWN words.

Back at the start..at the very beginning..before Satan rebelled and fell...God already KNEW he would do so didnt he??

YES..he MUST have..after all..he is ALL knowing.

So satan FELL...

And was cast to earth...

Then just after that God made Man. He also KNEW HE would fall too. He also created and brought into being every human who has ever lived..and he ALSO knew IN ADVANCE..who would serve him and who would not.

Correct??..I MUST be..because God is EVERYWHERE in time at ONCE.

He is also right NOW at the END of time with the book of life sittining right in front of him...seperating sheep from goats...saints from sinners..correct??

I MUST be because God is ALL KNOWING and ALWAYS PRESENT at ALL places in ALL history for ALL TIME..

So..nothing takes God by surprise...correct??

SO WHY then did he create BILLIONS of humans who he KNEW FULL WELL would FALL and NOT follow him??

And more to the point..why did he create eternal fire for those who fell if he KNEW from the start they would fall?

Does he get some sort of kick out of creating creatures he KNEW would not follow him and torturing them alive in flames forever??

So he created them simply and ONLY to BURN.

Please explain.

Remeber..NO bible verses..just your own words.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324684


Ill try to explain without quoting the bible ..probably couldnt if I tried lol

God is an every creative energy..it is constantly transforming.. it is all intelligent and knows everything..it is also LOVE..it is also perfection..

this process we know as life was created in order for the spiritual to manifest in the material..but not only that ..the goal was to achieve a perfect balance...the goal was to achieve perfection..following??

now perfection cant be imposed it has to be achieved..

and it has to be achieved voluntarily through Gnosis or understanding and it has to be performed not out of fear but out of love

ok..in order to achieve perfetion there must be an element of imperfection introduced..and that is where "evil" comes to play.."evil" is simply a tool of spiritual ascension through the process or trial and error..to advance through our mistakes and errors voluntarily and out of love

do you understand hf I hope so because you posed an interesting question

Now as to eternal damnation

God doesnt condemn anyone..we do through our own choices which we voluntarily make with full knowledge of what we are doing..

as to eternal hell..the absence of the harmony and communiojn with the source is the "hell" we are taught about.
here we are in the intermediary phase..where choices are made and lessons are learned

its the yin yang existence where both poles balance themselves and sustain reality as we know it

the final step will be when the choices are complete and each goes there own way

the positive inheriting a harmonious existence in communion with God where Spirit is master over matter yet both as one

and the negative follow their own choice in an existence of their own accord probably continuing their way through other realms and dimensions hopefully with the same goal in view if at a later date

peace

Last Edited by wildhoney on 04/02/2011 05:19 AM
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1321623
United States
04/02/2011 05:19 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
duality .....makes shit interesting
Ice
ice

User ID: 1311076
United States
04/02/2011 05:23 AM

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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
you being one that questions Gods purpose is a little funny

wrong place to start

you understanding of Hell is wrong based on wrong teaching



The question would be if you believe in this unseen God
why ask the question of why would he

why not ask the question of how and when should I
Chill - Enjoy - Relax
wildhoney

User ID: 1324737
Spain
04/02/2011 05:24 AM

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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
(I asked my pastor this and he could not answer it...see if you can)


God is omnipresent is he not??..yes..he IS

He is all knowing..

all powerful..

and NOTHING he does is by mistake..

he CANT make mistakes because he is GOD right??

He is also LOVE..pure and sweet and gentle...loving enough to suffer a very horrible death for us correct??

So answer this question..without quoting a bible verse..answer it with your OWN words.

Back at the start..at the very beginning..before Satan rebelled and fell...God already KNEW he would do so didnt he??

YES..he MUST have..after all..he is ALL knowing.

So satan FELL...

And was cast to earth...

Then just after that God made Man. He also KNEW HE would fall too. He also created and brought into being every human who has ever lived..and he ALSO knew IN ADVANCE..who would serve him and who would not.

Correct??..I MUST be..because God is EVERYWHERE in time at ONCE.

He is also right NOW at the END of time with the book of life sittining right in front of him...seperating sheep from goats...saints from sinners..correct??

I MUST be because God is ALL KNOWING and ALWAYS PRESENT at ALL places in ALL history for ALL TIME..

So..nothing takes God by surprise...correct??

SO WHY then did he create BILLIONS of humans who he KNEW FULL WELL would FALL and NOT follow him??

And more to the point..why did he create eternal fire for those who fell if he KNEW from the start they would fall?

Does he get some sort of kick out of creating creatures he KNEW would not follow him and torturing them alive in flames forever??

So he created them simply and ONLY to BURN.

Please explain.

Remeber..NO bible verses..just your own words.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324684


Ill try to explain without quoting the bible ..probably couldnt if I tried lol

God is an every creative energy..it is constantly transforming.. it is all intelligent and knows everything..it is also LOVE..it is also perfection..

this process we know as life was created in order for the spiritual to manifest in the material..but not only that ..the goal was to achieve a perfect balance...the goal was to achieve perfection..following??

now perfection cant be imposed it has to be achieved..

and it has to be achieved voluntarily through Gnosis or understanding and it has to be performed not out of fear but out of love

ok..in order to achieve perfetion there must be an element of imperfection introduced..and that is where "evil" comes to play.."evil" is simply a tool of spiritual ascension through the process or trial and error..to advance through our mistakes and errors voluntarily and out of love

do you understand hf I hope so because you posed an interesting question

Now as to eternal damnation

God doesnt condemn anyone..we do through our own choices which we voluntarily make with full knowledge of what we are doing..

as to eternal hell..the absence of the harmony and communiojn with the source is the "hell" we are taught about.
here we are in the intermediary phase..where choices are made and lessons are learned

its the yin yang existence where both poles balance themselves and sustain reality as we know it

the final step will be when the choices are complete and each goes there own way

the positive inheriting a harmonious existence in communion with God where Spirit is master over matter yet both as one

and the negative follow their own choice in an existence of their own accord probably continuing their way through other realms and dimensions hopefully with the same goal in view if at a later date

peace
 Quoting: wildhoney


And Immanuel the Christ came here to teach us the Way

we had to know the steps that would set us free from this duality and by knowing there would and could be no excuse of ignorance

to have killed him is such an amazingly heavy karma due to that fact

that is why he asked God to forgive them because THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING...TO THEMSELVES

hf

hope that helped
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1323944
United States
04/02/2011 05:26 AM
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
God is the one who created all things, he also Knows all things. Don't you think that he has a plan, that we don't
know about. He said he would win, he already has, so I don't
try to find flaws at every turn.

There is more than humans involved with this plan you know.
 Quoting: daughter


daughter puts it very well OP, God's ways are not our ways, they are higher. So...right now, you/we/all of us have to
trust in God's plan and that His ways are loving.

I believe every word of this and it's not from Scripture as
you requested but it confirms Scripture:

An excerpt from a revelation, approved by the RCC, given to a holy nun, Mother Eugenia, July 1, 1932...certainly to touch our hearts. I highlighted some of the Father's words: blwkss:

GOD THE FATHER:

Realise then, o men, that for all eternity I have had but one desire, to make Myself known to men and be loved by them. I wish to stay forever with them.

Do you want an authentic proof of this desire that I have just expressed?

Why did I command Moses to build a tabernacle and the ark of the covenant, if not to come and dwell, as a Father, a brother, a close friend, with My creatures, men? This was My ardent desire. In spite of this, they have forgotten Me and offended Me with countless sins. I gave Moses my commandments to remind them, in spite of everything, of God, their Father, and of His sole wish, to save them. They were supposed to observe the commandments and thereby remember their infinitely good Father, always intent upon their present and eternal salvation.

All this was forgotten and men sank into error and fear considering that the observance of the commandments as I had transmitted them to Moses was too taxing. They made up other laws in accordance with their whims, in order to observe them more easily. Little by little, in the exaggerated fear they had of Me they forgot Me more and more and heaped outrages upon Me.

Yet My love for these men, My children, never quite ceased. When I realized that neither the patriarchs nor the prophets had been able to make Me known and loved by men, I decided to come Myself.

But how could I come among them? There was no other way that to come Myself, in the Second Person of My divinity.

Would men know Me? Would they listen to Me?

Nothing in the future was hidden from Me; I Myself answered these two questions:

"They will ignore My presence, even though they will be near Me. In My Son they will treat Me cruelly, not withstanding all the good He will do for them. In My Son they will speak ill of Me, they will crucify Me to bring about My death."

Shall I stop because of this? No, My love for My children, men, is too great.


I did not stop there. Understand well that I loved you, as it were, more than My beloved Son, or rather, more than Myself.

What I am telling you is so true that, if one of My creatures had been enough to atone for the sins of other men through a life and death similar to those of my Son, I would have hesitated. Why? Because I would have betrayed My love by making a beloved creature suffer, rather than suffering Myself, in My Son. I would never have wished My children to suffer.

This, then, in brief, is the story of My love until My coming among men through My Son.

Most men know of all these events, but they fail to grasp the essential thing: that love was the guiding principle in it all!
wildhoney

User ID: 1324737
Spain
04/02/2011 05:28 AM

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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
soooo op

Adam and Eve were they guilty;)

oh I dont think so chuckle
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
wildhoney

User ID: 1324737
Spain
04/02/2011 05:29 AM

Report Abusive Post
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
soooo op

Adam and Eve were they guilty;)

oh I dont think so chuckle
 Quoting: wildhoney


In fact they imo pulled it off perfectly

dig deep op and you will find the truth hf
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1324819
United States
04/02/2011 05:29 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: DEAR CHRISTIANS..IVE BEEN THINKING..and I have a DECENT QUESTION for you..a SERIOUS one.
(I asked my pastor this and he could not answer it...see if you can)


God is omnipresent is he not??..yes..he IS

He is all knowing..

all powerful..

and NOTHING he does is by mistake..

he CANT make mistakes because he is GOD right??

He is also LOVE..pure and sweet and gentle...loving enough to suffer a very horrible death for us correct??

So answer this question..without quoting a bible verse..answer it with your OWN words.

Back at the start..at the very beginning..before Satan rebelled and fell...God already KNEW he would do so didnt he??

YES..he MUST have..after all..he is ALL knowing.

So satan FELL...

And was cast to earth...

Then just after that God made Man. He also KNEW HE would fall too. He also created and brought into being every human who has ever lived..and he ALSO knew IN ADVANCE..who would serve him and who would not.

Correct??..I MUST be..because God is EVERYWHERE in time at ONCE.

He is also right NOW at the END of time with the book of life sittining right in front of him...seperating sheep from goats...saints from sinners..correct??

I MUST be because God is ALL KNOWING and ALWAYS PRESENT at ALL places in ALL history for ALL TIME..

So..nothing takes God by surprise...correct??

SO WHY then did he create BILLIONS of humans who he KNEW FULL WELL would FALL and NOT follow him??

And more to the point..why did he create eternal fire for those who fell if he KNEW from the start they would fall?

Does he get some sort of kick out of creating creatures he KNEW would not follow him and torturing them alive in flames forever??

So he created them simply and ONLY to BURN.

Please explain.

Remeber..NO bible verses..just your own words.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1324684



These are the end times.

Many many more have lived before those that are walking the earth currently.

And many many more lived and died loyal to God.

They were his followers like the few that remain today.

And we are the most. And the most will be in Heaven with God forever.

If you want to be evil because you do not care then do your will. But you will burn in hell forever, and that is the truth. You have been warned, hopefully you choose wisely. The rules are the rules, stop whining.

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