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HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!

 
ac
08/26/2005 07:29 PM
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HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
Luke 21:34

Be on gaurd that your hearts may not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of this life,AND THE DAY COME UPON YOU SUDDENLY LIKE A TRAP; FOR IT WILL COME UPON "ALL" THOSE WHO DWELL ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

Mark 13:12-And brother will deliver brother to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against their parents and have them put to death.
And YOU will be HATED by ALL on account of my name, BUT THE ONE WHO ENDURES TO THE END, HE shall be saved.

And unless the Lord had shortened those days, NO life would have been saved, But for the SAKE OF THE ELECT (Funny...I thought the elect went in the rapture) WHOM HE CHOSE...He shortened the days.

For false christs and false prophets will arise to show signs and wonders, IN ORDER, IF POSSIBLE...TO LEAD THE ELECT ASTRAY.

So the whole reason for the rapture go to heaven easy lie is to WHAT?? "IN ORDER, IF POSSIBLE...TO LEAD THE ELECT ASTRAY"

Now the elect cant be decieved if they are NOT HERE can they?

Read on...

But in the days (AFTER!!!)that tribulation THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING FROM HEAVEN. And the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
And (THEN!!) they will see the son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

GET THIS...this is WHILE HE IS COMING!!!

And THEN He will SEND FORTH HIS ANGELS and will GATHER (collect...recieve...aquire...rapture if you like) TOGETHER HIS....His WHAT???


HIS ELECT!!!!!!

from the four winds (the whole earth) from the farthest ends of the earth to the farthest ends of heaven.

Now we read in Matthew the SAME THING.
All the verses above this one are the same more or less but I am writing this one to make a POINT very CLEAR.

Mathew 24:31
"And he will send forth HIS ANGELS with what??
"A GREAT TRUMPET"...and what will the angels DO?
"And they will GATHER His WHO?? His "ELECT" from the four winds...from one end of the sky to the other"

Now for the cause of the great falling away!

Matthew 24:9-13

THEN they will deliver you up to TRIBULATION, and will KILL you, and you will ba HATED by ALL NATIONS on account of MY NAME.

AND AT THAT TIME...."MANY SHALL FALL AWAY" and will deliver up one another (dob eachother in to the authoroties) and HATE one another.
AND MANY FALSE PROPHETS (pre trib rapture teachers) will arise AND MISLEAD MANY.

And because lawlessness will increase (anarchy and chaos of the time) The love (or compassion) of MANY will grow cold. (They will no longer care because they have been decieved and are full of anger and hate.)

NOW LET THIS SOAK IN!!!

BUT THE ONE WHO ENDURES TO THE WHAT???/THE "END".....HE SHALL BE SAVED.

So as you can CLEARLY see if you are not WILLINGLY BLIND that the saints...the ELECT...will be here for the whole show and only be taken out right at the return of Jesus to this world. If they were not then WHY the command to ENDURE TO THE "END" then???

Want more PROOF? you DO? ok then...this is JUST the beginning.

The parable of the harvest.

Note the TIMING!!!

Matthew 13:30

"Allow BOTH to GROW TOGETHER until the harvest.
and in the TIME of the harvest I will say to the reapers (which are the angels he sends forth)
"FIRST...(note the FIRST!!!) Gather up the TARES!!!(NOT the believers first as the devils doctrine says....but the WICKED)and bind them in bundles to BURN them up: But (and AFTER that..as is obvious) but gather the wheat into my barn.

Fairly straight forward unless you willingly REFUSE to see the truth.

Here is MORE proof you have been lied to about the rapture.

Matthew 13:39-43

Talking about the bad seed here....

And the enemy who sowed them is (who???)
THE DEVIL....and the harvest is the end of the world....and the REAPERS are angels.
(NOTE THIS...THE TIMING!!!)

Therefore...JUST AS THE TARES (The WICKED...the bad seed)are GATHERED UP and burned in the fire...SO shall it be at the end of the world.

(So as you can CLEARLY SEE....ITS THE WICKED that get gathered FIRST and BURNED UP during the tribulation)

Hereīs MORE...

Verse 41

THE SON OF MAN...will send forth His ANGELS...and they will GATHER OUT of His kingdom...(WHO???? The SAINTS as you have been misled to believe??)...ALL STUMBLING BLOCKS...and THOSE WHO COMMIT LAWLESSNESS.

verse 43

THEN..(meaning "AFTER THAT" as is OBVIOUS)..THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH LIKE THE SUN in the kingdom of their father. (and to make the point HIMSELF...Jesus says this at the end)
HE WHO HAS EARS...LET HIM HEAR (or UNDERSTAND)


Still not convinced???
Ok then...heres MORE proof.

Matthew 13:49-50

"SO shall it be at the end of the world:The ANGELS shall come forth...(AND NOTE THIS ONCE AGAIN CAREFULLY!!!)...AND "TAKE OUT" (TO REMOVE)
THE WICKED (NOT the saints) FROM "AMONG" the RIGHTEOUS!!!

NOT the other way around as you have been decieved into believeing.

NOTE: These words are from Jesus own mouth and are VERY clear AGAIN AND AGAIN at the timing of the events. IF you do NOT believe these words...then you do NOT believe in Jesus...which means you are ONE OF THE WICKED that he talks so much about....always hearing and always learning....but never able to come to the knowledge of the TRUTH.
Willignly IGNORANT and surrounding yourself with teachers who tell you what you want to hear...tickling your itching ears.
That you will NOT have to suffer..that you will be taken out from this and never suffer any pain. YOU ARE IN FOR A VERY VERY VERY VERY nasty WAKE UP CALL...because you will STILL BE SLEEPING
when the groom shows up.

NEED MORE PROOF???

Ok...here we go then.

1 Corinthians 15:52
"IN a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, (WHEN??) AT THE LAST (meaning FINAL!)
TRUMPET: For the TRUMPRT will sound, and THE DEAD shall be raised, and we shall be changed.


So as you can clearly see...The Lord will COLLECT HIS SAINTS AT HIS RETURN.
Also He would NOT have told us to "endure to the end to be saved" IF we had nothing to endure but was instead raptured to heaven on an easy flesh loving get out of the trib FREE card that our churches teach...A DOCTRINE OF DEVILS
which will leave most saints who believe this lie.... caught OFF GAURD and ASLEEP. For that is the reason for the lie...to sort the wheat from the chaff....and there is WAY to much chaff in the church.

I hope I am beginning to dispel your doubts. These words are CLEAR and cannot be muddled.
When I return with lots more scripture backing this up you will be WITHOUT excuse when the time comes..and the time is HERE NOW...so GET READY.


More will soon follow.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
at the end of this AGE, the "little fishes" shall be called "back up" to "heaven" and "seated" at the "left hand" of the "son". then "he" who is "seated" at the "right hand" of the "son" shall come "back down" to earth and "pour out" Godīs blessing on all.

AMEN
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
182 I see your desire to speak what is true, but are you open to hear the truth?
anubis
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
the pre-tribulation rapture is a pipe dream

we will all be here for the ride......
fnfal
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
KJV

EZE 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.


"Woe to them that teach people to fly!"
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
The Rapture was totally fabricated by a minister from the 18th century.Itīs not biblical.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
the "little fishes" are NOT the followers of jesus. the followers of jesus are NOT going to be called up to "heaven".
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
Almost everything taught by churches are lies!
Cassie †
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
Jesus would have a real hard time coming as a thief in the night
after 7 years of Tribulation. No one would be expecting Him
then, Riiiiighht!

182, Those elect in the verses you posted are Tribulation Saints
which come to Him during the Trib.

We will not endure his wrath!

Rev 3:10-11
Since you have kept My command to endure patiently,
I will also keep you from the hour of trial that will
come upon the whole world, to test those who live on
the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast
which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

I Thess 5:5-11
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of
the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us
watch and be sober.


For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that
be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us,
who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate
of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of
salvation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation
by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that,
whether we wake or sleep, we should live together
with him.

Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1 Thess. 1:10:
"wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,
even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

I Thessalonians 4:16-18
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which
are alive and remain shall be caught up together with
them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort
one another with these words.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Cassie †
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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It is written, WHEREFORE COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE
WORDS-1 Thes 4:18.

If we were watching for the horrible Tribulation period,
we would not be comforted. We would be terrified.
This Scripture could not be fulfilled, if the saints were
to go into the Tribulation period.

Jesus gave us this command: PRAY ALWAYS, THAT YE MAY BE
ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS.
Lk 21:36.

We may ask, "Escape all what things?" The answer is,
all those things that have been described, which includes
the Tribulation. In other words, the saints are to pray
that they are accounted worthy to escape the Tribulation
by being raptured.
ac
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
All presumtuos speculation arrived at by trying to GUESS what the scriptures SAY. I have spelled it out VERY clearly in OBVIOUS WAYS that we WILL be here for the trib.

Youe premise is exactly the deception the Devil ALWAYS uses. He TWISTS the scriptures in your mind. WHY do you think jesus was SO CLEAR and WARNED about being decieved..that even the elect would cop it?

Jeus was CLEAR in His statements..VERY clear. Cmon...just TRY to make them say what YOU want them to say!

PROOVE your devlish Satanic doctrine if you can with JUST ONE VERY CLEAR AND EXPLICIT VERSE that STATES we will NOT have to ENDURE to the end.

CANT YOU SEE THE OBVIOUS LIE???and its CONSEQUENCES?

The consequences are THE FALLING AWAY by being LED astray by SATANS TEACHING

JESUS says..."in this world you WILL have TRIBULATION"

and...

"HE WHO ENDURES TO THE END WILL BE SAVED"

The Satanic doctrine on the other hand FITS RIGHT IN with todays useless and satanic teaching of the church.

Live in prosperity....live it up...you are rich and well fed...and guess what? You will NOT have to suffer A THING...ITS SO EASY. You will NEVER have to make a life or death stand for your faith because YOU DONT HAVE to....all you gotta do is believe and you will miss the trib...in the meantime send us more money so we can KEEP SPREADING THE LIE.

JESUS said "MANY FALSE TEACHERS WILL ARISE TO MISLEAD>>IF POSSIBLE>>>>EVEN THE ELECT."

It seems Jeus is correct..as USUAL.

WHY OH WHY wont you LISTEN TO JESUS HIMSELF instead of the RUBBISH these end time decievers are pushing?

WHEN WILL YOU AWAKE AND PREPARE?

YOU WILL NOT because you are WILLFULLY IGNORANT

I feel pity for you...so close to heaven...but decieved into hell at the last moment.

When it all HTF YOU will be left without oil..you will be in shock and your faith will FAIL because you believed the LIE.

Jesus said too..."FOR THIS REASON I WILL SEND UPON THE STRONG DELUSION TO BELIEVE THE LIE..."

And WHY? because you DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE HAD THE TRUTH. Instead you surround youself with teachers having itching ears...and you will not put up with sound doctrine...YOU BRING THE GREAT DELUSION DOWN UPON YOURSELF.


Thats EXACTLY what we have here with your lukewarm feel good sacrifice nothing live at ease rake in the money and never feel any pain load of UTTER CRAP thet you have been duped into believing.

Eternity is no JOKE...but YOU are deciding where you will spend it. I dont care if you have been going to church for years....you do NOT have salvation if your salvation is so easy and full of fun.

TRUE salvation COSTS....but your Satanic wolves in the pulpit have duped you into beleiving that everything is peachy....AND YOU SLEEP THINKING YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TO MAKE A STAND....and when the time comes to stand...YOU WILL FALL...and you will be NUMBERED AMONG THE WICKED...simply because you believed a simple but enticing lie of easy salvation and the utterly Satanic "prosperity and no pain" Doctrine straight from the bowels of HELL.

You love this lie so much...You will even get to spen eternity with the mongrel who wrote it.

I SAY AGAIN>>>>WAKE UP BEFORE ITS TOO LATE

THE TIME IS NOW...NOT NEXT YEAR>>>>NOT THE END OF THIS YEAR>>>BUT RIGHT NOW!!!
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
The elect are the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel...not the bride of Christ or the church if you will....

Revelation 7:13,14 clearly states that the church is in heaven in white robes before the first trumpet sounds....

Revelation 8:7 the first trumpet sounds and the tribulation is not the sounding of the trumpets.

182 you are posting a lot of misinformation of misunderstandings that you have.
Interdimensional warrior
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
Christians who believe in the rapture remind me of grown adults who believe in Santa Claus.

Wait, theyīre the same people arenīt they?

I once had an arguement with a 30 something year old about the existance of Santa Claus. He was livid, and ready to fight me physically to drive home his beliefs.
Christianity is what I call a "good deal" in a religion.
You can kill and exploit whoever you want,commit any act of heinous evil, because jesus paid for your sins in advance. Then you get spirited away from the bad part, getting to watch the unfortunate die horrible deaths, those who were raised in non Christian countries ,including all children who have never heard of jesus.


Sounds like to me a used car salesman wrote the new testament.
By the way, any rapture believing christians would be inclined to be very violent against anyone who disagreed with them, thinking they would escape the consequences of thier actions and be automatically forgiven.
Christianity is the worship of Lucifer. Jesus is Lucifer, fools.
Cassie †
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
182,

Youīve taken most all of those verseīs totally out of context,
the verses I posted clearly say we are not apointed to
wrath.

Jesus said it...I believe it....itīs truth.

WHEREFORE COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS.
1 Thes 4:18

Quit trying to steal my crown and Blessed Hope with your
false teachings.

Rev 3:10-13
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also
will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall
come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon
the earth.

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast,
that no man take thy crown.

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple
of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write
upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of
my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of
heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new
name.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith
unto the churches.

II Timothy 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness,
which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at
that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that
love his appearing.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
The reason why I have titled this article "Are The Resurrection/Rapture Church Saints Under Law, Or Grace" is because there are so many who are seeking to "earn their right" to be a participant in this event when It happens. Nothing could be farther from the truth! Many are terribly confused because they have not learned important foundational truths concerning Law, grace, justificaton etc. Therefore this subject is of great importance to me. Hopefully with Godīs help I can reach a few in order to help set them free from the unnecessary fear and confusion that has beset them through a lack of understanding of the word of God.


Do not let the length of this article discourage you from reading and prayerfully studying it. It will be an "Eye Opener" for perhaps many? The "Resurrection/Rapture" subject that we will be discussing is not one that can be properly examined by just 3 or 4 pages of material. I will be covering the resurrection/Rapture text in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 later, I will be presenting some simple, but yet "profound observations" of this text which cannot be argued, scooted around, ignored, nor denied unless some one is foolish and brave enough to make an attempt to rewrite all the New Testament epistles, as well as the gospels.


First I will be covering the subject of "Law and Grace" which is extremely important and absolutely foundational for understanding of this subject of Godīs resurrection program. The question of "who goes and who stays" at the time of the Rapture is clearly revealed in this foundational study of "Law and Grace." Without this foundation many will never understand the latter part of this study. Therefore I am encouraging those who have difficulty with the teaching of "the security of the believer", and also who are advocates of the "partial rapture theory" not to skip the first part of this study. Otherwise you will not understand, nor will you see the final picture of truth at the end.


Until a Christian understands their position "In Christ" (by grace through faith apart from works / Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:4-7) they will always be confused and will most likely never understand this subject of the resurrection/Rapture in its proper context. Donīt just read this article, study it! Look up many of the scriptures that will be listed in it. As you do pray that God will give you understanding of His word. Ask Him to show the "His truth and nothing but His truth." If you approach this study with a sincere heart before God, and If you are a true believer by faith alone in Christ, then you have the Holy Spirit within you (Eph. 1:13). He is your teacher who will show you His truth (John 14:16-26; 15:26; 16:7-14).


I would like to also say this. When we conclude with this study the "partial rapture theory", which is based on good works is going to go "Flying right out the window" into oblivion where it belongs! This false teaching has No place in Godīs word! If anyone walks away from this study still confused, still adhering to, and holding on to this make believe doctrine which God, the Holy Spirit, and the apostle Paul have NEVER TAUGHT in scripture! Then with great concern and urgency I recommend that you get on your knees and honestly examine your hearts before God in order to see if you are truly in the faith (2 Cor. 13:5). Are you trying to be justified by the works of the Law? Are you trying to earn your way into heaven at the time of the resurrection/ Rapture? I donīt know your heart, only God does. You are the only one who can answer these questions!


What unlearned Christians as well as non-Christians do not understand in the bible, the devil stands by waiting to give them "His own perverted interpretation"

The title of this article is an important question that needs to be asked and addressed with the word of God once and for all! There is too much unnecessary confusion on this subject of the Resurrection/Rapture of the church in relationship to "who will go" and "who will stay" when this event happens. This therefore brings deep concern to my heart for those souls who think that they can "earn their right" to be a participant in the resurrection program of God by way of their "Godly character, good moral conduct, good works, etc.


Now If this were the case, which it is not. Then it would mean that these people could therefore earn their own right to enter into the presence of God in heaven through their acts of obedience to religious laws, or by their own ethical standards of moral character and conduct. Those "in Christ" who die before the resurrection are allowed into the presence of God, not based on their good works, but by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-10). Those who are "alive" when the resurrection takes place likewise are allowed entry into the presence of God, NOT because of their works, but because they were saved by grace through faith in Christ. Godīs scriptural guide lines, rules, and requirements concerning manīs salvation apply not only to those who have already died in Christl. But they also apply to the "living in Christ" now, and at the time of Christīs appearing!


The Bible is emphatically clear that "No flesh will be justified in His sight by the Law" (Rom.3:20; Eph.2:8-10; Titus 3:4-7). those people who trying to earn their right "into heaven" at the time of the resurrection are trying to achieve a glorified body by their "works of moral and religious character", which have become "a law" to them. They are seeking Godīs favor for the purpose of "qualifying" entry into Godīs presence. This is the whole problem with these people!


Godly character can only be achieved and practiced by the believer who is said to be "in Christ" according to the scriptures. The Holy Spirit comes to indwell the believer at the moment of his or her conversion to Christ (Eph.1:13). It is God through His Holy Spirit who empowers the saint for Godly and faithful service (Eph.2:10; Phil.1:6, 2:13). When those who are "in Christ" surrender themselves to the leading of the Holy Spirit the fruit of the Holy Spirit then manifests itself in and through them (Gal.5:16:25) as they walk in obedience to Christ. The fact is, the bible is clear in Rom. 8:7 that no one who is "in the flesh" is capable of keeping the Law of God. Scripture says that if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Him. (Rom.8:9).


If the Holy Spirit is not indwelling a person, then they have never been saved, nor do they have the power to live for Christ, since they are "Dead in sins" (Rom. 3:10,11, 23; 6:23; Eph.2:1-7; Col.2:9-14). Thus it is important to know and understand that the only criteria mentioned and taught by the apostle Paul in the New Testament epistles, which allows a Christian to be a participant in the resurrection/Rapture is that one must possess the Holy Spirit of Christ (Rom.8:9-16; Eph.4:30; 1Thess.4:16), which is received at that moment that they trust in Christ (Eph. 1:13-14).


This subject of the resurrection of the church saints needs to be taught and understood through the pages of scripture and should not be approached nor taught by emotionally charged driven people who are confused on the subject, and who teach that a christian must earn their right to receive their glorified body through acts of "obedience, good works, faithfulness, watchfulness, praying, and holy living."


Though these manifested acts of obedience are very important in the Christians walk. They are NOT the bases, nor are they the qualifying factor for those who are "already in Christ." The apostle Paul makes emphatically clear that if one possesses the Holy Spirit they will be given a resurrected body by Godīs Spirit who indwells (Rom. 8:9-16).


The "spirit" of every believer in Christ has already been made righteous by the righteousness of Christ (Rom. 3;22; 1Cor.1:30; Phil. 3:9; 2 Cor.5:21) which they received from God at that moment when they called on the name of the Lord to be saved (Rom. 10:9,10, 10:13; Eph.1:13-14). But the believers "flesh" has not been made perfect, glorified, nor quickened yet. This glorification of the believers body takes place at the time of the resurrection/Rapture (1Cor 15:50-58; 1Thess. 4:13-18).


Sadly there has been a great neglect of teaching and a terrible lack of emphasis on "what" this whole event of the Rapture of the church is really all about. To many emphasize and focus on only "one aspect" of this event, which is the "translation of the living saints in Christ" into the presence of God. But many neglect to point out and show that this important event is really the "resurrection program of God." God is completing and "ending" the dispensation of grace (the church age) at the time of the resurrection/ Rapture of the church saints.


Once the resurrection event has taken place. God then restarts His prophetic program once again with His people Israel (Ministry ended when He rode into Jerusalem and wept over the city in 30.5 AD. / Matt. 23:37-39). Following the Rapture God then begins to complete the rest of Israelīs prophetic 70th week mentioned in Daniel chapter 9. Israel and the world will go back under the Old Testament economy (Law) in order for God to begin His "judgment and wrath program which is specifically for unbelieving Israel and the rest of the unbelieving Gentiles who were left behind at the time of Christīs appearing.


God is going to save a faithful remnant out of the nation of Israel during this judgment period. Where there is "no grace", there is only the outward physical manifestation of the "judgment of God upon the wicked" in the "Day of the Lord" (Rom.1:18, 2:5; Rev. 6:2). Those of us who are in Christ are not destined for judgment, or wrath of any kind! (Rom. 5:1, 9; 8:1,2; 1Thess. 5:1-11).


Christ is returning at the time of the resurrection for the sole purpose of "finalizing and completing" the redemption program for the church (the glorification of the bodies of the church saints 1 Cor. 15:50-58) who are not under the administration of the Old Testament economy of the Law, but under the new administration of grace in-which they stand (Rom. 5:1,2). "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ" (John 1:17).


The apostle Paul in Romans 8:3 says this: "For what the Law could Not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did; sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin (all sin past, present, and future) in the flesh, (v.4.) "In order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us (the believer), who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" (The indwelling of the Holy Spirit).


All those who have already died in Christ from Pentecost until Christīs appearing will be resurrected first and will receive their glorified bodies at that time along with those who are alive in Christ. Both the "dead in Christ" and the "Living in Christ" will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air (1Thess.4:13-18). These new glorified bodies that the dead in Christ and the living in Christ receive are for the purpose of preparing the saint for the eternal state. This is why the apostle Paul says the following in 1corinthians 15:50

(v. 50). "Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable." (v. 53) "For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."


Qualifying for The resurrection/Rapture program of God is not determined by manīs rules. Nor does anyone have the power or ability "within themselves" to "ensure or guarantee" that they will be a participant in this event when it happens based on their "good conduct, and holy living." The ONLY criteria that is given to us in the word of God that guarantees any saints participation in the resurrection/Rapture program of God is the criteria that one must be "in Christ" (and the dead "in Christ" shall rise first 1Thess.4:16), which is accomplished by the indwelling, and sealing of the Holy Spirit of God within the believers life (Rom.8:9-16; 1Cor.12:13; 2Cor.1:21,22; Eph.4:30; 1Thess.4:13-18).

The indwelling and sealing of the believer by the Holy Spirit takes place at the moment of repentance and conversion to Christ through faith in the gospel (Eph.1:13-14), and thus they are forever sealed by the Holy Spirit for the "Day of redemption" Eph. 4:30. This glorification of the body of the believer takes place at the time of Christīs appearing. The glorification of the body is the final stage of the redemption process for the believer in Christ. The "dispensation of Grace" therefore ends at the time of the resurrection. The dispensation of the Old Testament economy of the Law then returns once again in order for God to begin "His wrath and judgment program."

Romans 4:15 "For the "Law" brings about "wrath", but where there is "No Law , neither is there violation." (see Romans 8:1,2)


Law, or Grace, which is it?


In simple terms Grace is the "Unmerited favor of God." It is based upon the "finished work of Christ for sin on the cross." The just demands of the Law (which is death Rom. 6:23) were met and fulfilled in Christ (Matt. 5:17). This is called "justification." Christ bore the "Full penalty" for all of our sin (Col. 2:13,14). Therefore because of this one righteous act of God through Christ, God can now declare any person righteous, sanctified, and justified (1 Cor. 1:30) who has thus placed there trust and faith in Christ apart from works (Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:4-7). Now that grace has come (unmerited favor) salvation can now be extended to all mankind through the work of Christ which is "by faith alone", and which has been completely "finished" (John 19:30). Man can add "Nothing" to what God has already sufficiently, perfectly, and effectively accomplished through His Son (Rom. 8:3).


(note:) Since the believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit for the "Day of redemption" (Eph. 4:30), and NOT according to their works. It is therefore "impossible" for them to "keep" their salvation "by their works." Othewise "grace" would no longer be grace. And salvation would then become a "work back under the Law." This would mean then that Christīs sacrifice for "all sin" as the scripture states would be invalid, insufficient, and incomplete. It would also mean that Christ would have to die over, and over, and over again since "the foundation of the world", since His sacrifice was NOT perfect the first time. The word of God tells us just the opposite, and clarifies clearly that His death only needed to happen once! (Heb.9:24-28). Therefore salvation comes to the believer "ONLY ONCE!"

Below is a diagram which I made to show the different dispensations.

I----------No Law--------I--------------Law-------------I-------age of Grace---------I------------Law----------------I--------------​No Law-------------I
I-----Gen. to Sinai------I-----Sinai to the cross---I--Cross to the Rapture---I-----tribulation period------I-----millennial kindgom-------I
I------------------------------------------------------------​------------------------------------------I------------------​----The Day of the Lord---------------------I
I------------------------------------------------------------​------------------------------------------I---------Narrow day----------I----Broad day of the Lord---I
I------------------------------------------------------------​------------------------------------------I---------seven years---------I----------1000 years------------I


The "Day of the Lord" consists not only of the "wrath of God" (the tribulation period), but it also consists of the "Blessings of God", which is the 1000 year reign of Christ upon the earth. That which is termed the "Narrow day of the Lord" begins following the Rapture of the church. The "Broad day of the Lord" is made up of most of the time which relates to the millennial kingdom age. Christīs 1000 year reign on the earth ( Rev. 20:6).


Grace began at the cross, but the church did not come into existence until Pentecost. This is when the Holy Spirit came to take up residency within the believer "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body" (1Cor. 12:13). Pentecost was the beginning, or the inception of the church. Above you can see clearly that the "age of grace" has to end before the tribulation judgment can begin.
fnfal
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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KJV

Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth WATER AS A FLOOD after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.



Matt 24:37-41 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the FLOOD CAME, and TOOK THEM ALL AWAY; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, and the other left.


"...We must remain in the field and work...we are not to be taken away in the flood...for our GATHERING TO CHRIST WILL NOT BE BEFORE THE ANTICHRIST IS FULLY REVEALED"

II Thess 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our GATHERING UNTO HIM,

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, SHEWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
Israelīs 70 weeks prophecy was given to Daniel by the angel Gabriel "under the law" (Old Testament economy), and therefore it must be completed and fulfilled back under the Law since this prophecy was given at that time. It must be fulfilled "Outside" of the dispensation of grace. This prophecy of the 70 weeks (or 490 days) was not given to the church, but to Israel only. Gabriel tells Daniel in Dan. 9:24 the following: "70 weeks have been decreed for thy people (Danielīs people Israel), and thy holy city (Danielīs city Jerusalem).........etc. The 70 weeks prophecy (490 days) concerns only "Israelīs sin" and her restoration (Dan.9:24-27).


Godīs prophetic program for Israel is designed to be kept "separate" from the prophetic program for the "church." In the Old Testament Israel was chosen by God out from among all the nations of the earth (Deut 4:37,38, 7:7-8, 10:15). They were "one nationally." Israel today is still Godīs "chosen people", but they are in unbelief (Rom.11:25,26). The church is not made up of a "one nationality of people" like Israel.


The body of Christ, unlike Israel, is made up of many peoples from many nationalities, Jews as well as Gentiles alike, though the majority of the body of Christ is predominantly made up of Gentiles. Therefore God cannot combine nor fulfill both programs of "Israel and the church" together in the same "dispensation of time." In the Old Testament God was only working with, and calling out from among the nations "His people Israel", and no other nation (Deut 4:37,38, 7:7-8, 10:15).


Those of "Grace" (the church) who have believed the gospel have been set free from eternal condemnation through Christ (Rom. 5:1, 9, 10; 8:1,2). The other group is of the Law (unbelieving Israel) who rejected the gospel of grace, and therefore will experience the "physical judgment and chastisement" of the hand of God along with the rest of the unbelieving Gentiles during the tribulation period.


All the earthly kingdom blessings which were promised to Israel through Abraham (Abrahams seed / Gen. chapters 15-17) will be given to the "believing remnant" of Israel when Christ returns at the end of the tribulation period in order to establish His kingdom (Matt. 24:24,31). Israel is an "earthly people" to whom the covenants belonged (Rom. 9:4 Eph. 2:12), and the church is a "Heavenly people" who have inherited all the "spiritual blessings in Christ in the heavenlies" (Eph. 1:3). Israel and the church must be kept separate in order to understand much of Godīs word correctly.


Grace and Law do not mix. It is either one or the other. Trying to mix Law and Grace would be like trying to mix "oil with water." The nature of the two substances will not allow you to mix them. They will always remain separate due to their natural properties. Likewise trying to mix the two different dispensations of Law and Grace is also scripturally and theologically impossible to do. You can see on the chart above that I have displayed, that the dispensation of the Law ended at the cross and the dispensation of grace began. Grace will END at the time of the resurrection/Rapture. Then the Old Testament economy of the Law returns at the opening of the Day of the Lord which follows the Rapture.


The apostle Paul makes very clear in scripture that the body of Christ is NOT under the Law, and neither can the church ever return back under the Law since Christ has fulfilled the just demands of it. This new administration (Eph. 3:8-11), which is by grace through faith in Christ (Eph. 2:8-10) has given the believer in Christ "eternally forgiveness" for all sin, for all time (Rom.6:10; Col.2:13,14; Heb.9:12, 28 Heb.10:10-14).


The dispensation of the Law and the dispensation of grace "have never", and "can never" operate at the same time, since they are two different dispensations of time which effect two different groups. The Law was not given to the Gentiles, but it was given to Israel. Both Law and Grace are like the "oil" and "Water" example. They will never mix!


Israelīs prophetic time


During the first 3-1/2 years half of the tribulation God is dealing with "national Israel" and her prophetic program by "calling out His remnant of Jewish people" according to Danielīs 70 weeks prophecy, which God will be completing. These judgments called the "The Birth pangs" (Matt. 24:8) are for the purpose of preparing a remnant out of the nation of Israel who will inherit the promised kingdom, and to "fulfill the times of the Gentiles" spoken of by Jesus in Luke 21:24. Therefore the church can never be a partaker of Israelīs prophetic program during the tribulation period called "Jacobīs trouble." God makes clear in (Jer.30:3-11) that this period is for Israel.


The apostle Paul says this "Give no offense either to the Jews or to Greeks, or to the church of God (1Cor. 10:32). Here you can see that Paul teaches that there are 3 different distinct groups of people in the world today. Israel is not saved nationally at this time. The faithful remnant of Israel who will be purchased and saved during the tribulation will make up the "true nation" of Israel who will possess the kingdom when Christ returns.


The church is comprised of many peoples from many nations. The church is also pictured in the New Testament epistles as a "heavenly people" by the apostle Paul in (Eph. 1:3), and not an earthly people as Israel is. Notice that Paul the apostle differentiates the Church from the Gentiles even though the church is predominantly Gentile. The bible says that those who make up the body of Christ are "all one" in Christ (For by one Spirit you were all baptized into one body /1Cor. 12:13). Those who make up the body of Christ have already been made "perfect in spirit" through the blood of Christ, and therefore judgment is not needed nor required to purchase the church (Rom. 8:1,2).


The Gentiles make up the third group. This group is unregenerated and is still dead in their sins. They are in unbelief just like the nation of Israel. These Gentile nations will also be recipients of Godīs physical judgment and wrath during the tribulation period. These unregenerated (spiritually dead) Gentiles are the ones who will be left behind along with unbelieving Israel at the time of the resurrection/Rapture. The Laodicean church, which is the last church mentioned in Revelation 3:14-22 is NOT made up of those who are "in Christ" (the true body of Christ).

This church of Laodicea is made up of those who "profess Christ" (They have a form of Godliness, although they have denied its power 2Tim 3:1-7) but who do NOT possess Christ (They Donīt have the Holy Spirit, and therefore they do not belong to Christ Rom. 8:9). For this reason God is going to "spit them out of His mouth" and expose them to the severe judgments of the tribulation period in order to judge them. Jesus says in Revelation 3:10 "..................to test "THOSE" (the wicked) who dwell upon the earth."


The last 3-1/2 years of the tribulation period which encompasses mainly the 7th trump, and the seven bowl judgments is reserved for the wicked Gentile nations. God will be in the process of overthrowing and destroying the Gentile powers. The remnant of Israel during this time will be protected by God for 3-1/2 years (Jer. 31:1,2; Rev. 12:14). During this last 3-1/2 years of the tribulation period God will be fulfilling the prophecy made by Jesus in Luke 21:24 "And Jerusalem shall be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the "Times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

The "middle of the tribulation" is seen in Rev. 11:2 ( 42 months / 1260 days / 3-1/2 years). God at this time takes His "great power" and begin to reign from heaven (Rev. 11:17). This means that from this point onward, all the way to the end of the tribulation period, God begins the "eviction process" of Satan and His wicked evil emissaries from the earth, and renders the Gentile powers destroyed. These events will climax with the second advent of Christ to the earth (Armageddon).
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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No flesh shall be justified by the Law


The apostle Pauls epistles are very clear that no flesh shall be justified in Godīs sight by the works of the Law (Rom.3:20). Neither before the Law came ( For Abraham, who was before the law was declared righteous by faith apart from works (Rom.4:1-3). Nor during the dispensation of the Law from Mt. Sinai (Mosaic Law) to the cross. And certainly not during the dispensation of grace which the apostle Paul makes very clear in his epistles. The Law can never save anyone at anytime. It only condemns us and points out our sin. Therefore the apostle Paul says that the Law was "our tutor" to lead us to Christ in order that we might be justified by faith (Gal. 3:24).


Those unbelieving Jews and unbelieving Gentiles who will be left behind at the time of the resurrection/Rapture will experience Godīs wrath and judgment "physically" during the tribulation period. The outward physical judgment of God is the result of their "sinful spiritual condition." The nation of Israel and the rest of the world as a whole have both "rejected" the grace of God which comes through faith in Christ Jesus, and of which they "Could have received" had they believed the gospel during the church age.


Therefore there is nothing left but the "physical wrath and chastisment of God" which will come upon Israel and "Them that dwell upon the whole earth" (Rev. 3:10 / in the Day of the Lord ). This is why the church will NOT experience the tribulation period. The tribulation judgments begin with the opening of the "First seal" in Revelation chapter 6. This takes place "within, or inside" the "Day of the Lord", which commences immediately following the Rapture. We who are in Christ are promised that we will NOT experience the "Day of the Lordīs wrath" (1Thess 5:1-9 ).


Those who are in Christ can never be judged by the Law. Christ took all our sins upon Himself and judged all of them there at the cross (Rom.6:10; Heb.9:12, 28 Heb.10:10-14). All of our sins past, present, and future were "nailed" to the cross" (Col. 2:13-14). The apostle Paul says: "for the wages of sin is death......." (Rom. 6:23). This means physical death and spiritual death, which we inherited through Adam (Rom. 5:12). "Christ is the end of the law, righteousness to everyone who believes" (Rom. 10:4).


I want you all to see something very important in the text of Gal.2:16-21! Paul the apostle in Galations 2:18 says this: "For If I rebuild what I have "once destroyed" I prove myself to be a transgressor."


What the apostle Paul is stating in this text of Galatians is this. That since Christ has been crucified salvation can now come to all men by grace through faith in Christ alone. Therefore there is no need to return back under the law in order to seek justification since the Law could not justify anyone. "Christ fulfilled the Law" (Matt. 5:17; Rom. 8:3,4). Sin has been judged through the work of the cross, in-which the penalty for all sin, which is "Death" has been paid for "in full" (Col. 2:13,14). It was only the shedding of Christīs blood that could make atonement for our sins (Rom. 5:9,10).


Those "Judaizers" whom the apostle Paul was addressing in the Book of Galatians were seeking to be justified by the Law all over again (by their observance of the Law, and its religious duty). They were trying to "rebuild" that which would enslave man once again, and thus "nullify" the grace of God.


The redemptive work of Christ at the cross accomplished for man what the Law could not do. And that was to give "life." Therefore Christ has once and for all fulfilled the just demands of the Law (Rom. 6:23, 7:6), "Who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, NOT of the letter (the Law), but of the Spirit, for the letter (the Law) kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2Cor. 3:6).


Eternal life can now be given to man as a gift (Rom. 6:23), which comes by the grace through faith in Christ alone (Eph. 2:8-10), and who fulfilled the just demands of the Law when He hung on the cross and cried out "It Is finished" (John 19:30). Paul says "I do NOT nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly" (Gal. 2:21).



What does this all mean?


This is an important and vital question! Jesus said in John 6:39 the following: "And this is the will of Him (the Father) who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day."


Listen! Our salvation which was accomplished by Christīs redemptive work at the cross is “eternal and for keeps.” Question: "How can it be said that one has eternal life unless it means forever! If the salvation of the believer could be lost, then it is not forever, and therefore it cannot be stated as eternal life.


Jesus has already declared this divine truth Himself in John 5:24 "truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent me (the Father) Has eternal life (present perfect tense, which means at that moment you believe, and forever) and DOES NOT come into judgment (at no time whatsoever), but has passed out of death into life."


Romans 8:1,2 says: "There is therefore now "no condemnation" to those who are "in Christ Jesus", For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you FREE from the law of sin and death.


HEY! what do you know! We already have eternal life according to Jesus in John 5:24, and we donīt have to die in order to get it! This eternal life that we possess in Christ can "never be altered" by our failing Christian conduct as a believer no matter how miserably we fail. Why? Because Christ paid the full penalty for all of our sins, for all time (Rom.6:10; Heb.9:12, 28 Heb.10:10-14).

If this sound doctrinal teaching from the word of God that I have been sharing with you stirs a desire in any ones heart to want to go out and live like the devil, then you have never been saved my friend. This is why one gets saved. It’s because the Holy Spirit is convicting them of their sin, and they want to be forgiven by God. Christians, no matter at what level of spiritual maturity they are at, whether weak or strong never cease to battle sin in their lives each and every day!

If you are struggling against the temptation of sin, and you are concerned about your spiritual walk with Christ, then that is good because only a child of God is concerned about sin in their lives and their walk with Christ. The power and the victory of Christ which is available to every believer comes from Godīs Holy Spirit who indwells them, and who seals them at the moment of their conversion to Christ (Eph. 1:13). The Holy Spirit is our only strength and power for the battle in our lives against sin, the world, the devil, and the flesh (Eph. 6:10-18). The Holy Spirit has been given to us so that we might be victorious over sin while we live in these corrupt bodies of flesh, which have not been made perfect yet.

The wicked have no power, nor do they have any desire to live for Christ. Therefore they have no desire to stop sinning. They are compelled to live by the power of the flesh with no restraints since they are "devoid" of the Spirit of God (Jude 1:19). Knowing that I am forgiven eternally for all my sins as a Christian has "never" compelled me to live like the devil. My eternal security in Christ has always compelled me to want to live a Godly life for Christ out of humility, gratitude, and with love in my heart for Him because of what He endured and accomplished for me at the cross ( Eternal Redemption through the shedding of His blood) (Heb. 9:12).


Every persons sin from the beginning of Adam until the last person to be born was paid for in full by Christīs death on the cross (Col. 2:13-14). Yes Jesus paid the price for ALL of them past, present, and future! The ones we have forgotten about, the ones we have confessed, the ones we havenīt confessed, sins yet to be committed tomorrow, the next day, and the next week, etc. Where were you and I when Christ died on the cross? Thatīs right! We were all in the future waiting to be born. And yet the bible says He died for all of our sins for all time. If you donīt believe me. Then here are some scripture verses just for you my friend!


Hebrews 10:10, 12, 14

(10). By this will we "have been sanctified" through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL! ( do you see any conditions or loop holes here? I donīt! )

(12). But He (Christ), having offered ONE SACRIFICE for sins, FOR ALL TIME sat down at the right hand of God." ( Do you see any conditions or loop holes here? I donīt )

(14). For by ONE OFFERING (For sin) He (Christ) has perfected FOR ALL TIME (Past, present, and future) those who are sanctified." Do you see any conditions or loop holes here? I donīt!


You know what folks! If anyone one of you who are reading this article cannot accept these scriptures as Godīs absolute truth, and therefore cannot accept the fact that Jesus died for ALL of your sins, and paid the FULL PENALTY for them ALL. Then you have a very serious problem! Hebrews chapter 10:10,12,14 shows clearly that Jesus died for all of our sins in......................

(1). the past (ones you have committed intentionally, or unintentionally, confessed, and not confessed).

(2). the present (ones you are committing intentionally, unintentionally, confessing, and not confessing).

(3). the future (ones that you havenīt committed intentionally, or unintentionally yet, which will be confessed in the future, or not confessed ).

Listen! I donīt know anyone’s heart, only God does. For those who think that they have to suffer judgment and punishment for their sins of the past, present, and future that Jesus has already paid for in full, then it could mean several things.

(1). It could mean that you may not understand the gospel of Jesus Christ, and therefore you are seeking to be justified before God by "your obedient religious practice, and good moral conduct." If this is the case, then "you have become your own savior" (1Cor. 8:6; 1Tim. 2:5,6), which means that Christ is not your personal savior, and therefore the Holy Spirit is not in you (Rom. 8:9).

You therefore need to confess your sin to Christ and surrender your will, heart, and life to Him. Ask Him to forgive you for all of your sins which He has already suffered and died for "past, present, and future." And then invite Him to come into your heart and save you" (Rom. 10:9,10, 13).

(2). It may be that you have trusted Christ as your savior?, but you are finding it hard to forgive yourself as Christ has already forgiven you due to your repetitive sinful habits and failures, which drives you to "Self condemnation." If this is the case then you need to let these scriptures that I have shared with you in this study "Sink deep into your heart", and let them set you free "Once and for all" from this terrible self destruction. Christ has already done a "Complete and finished work for your redemption" through the cross. Listen! God has forgiven us of ALL OUR TRANGRESSIONS. Go read Colossians 2:12,13. It will comfort you.
Anonymous Coward
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Many of those who read this article will probably fall into the second category listed above. This second category of people is where all this confusion and doubt is being generated from concerning the subject of "who will go" and "who will stay" at the time of the resurrection/Rapture. This is where the "Partial Rapture theory" comes into play. This second category is also made up of people who think they can lose their salvation. The problem with these people is that they just cannot forgive themselves of their shortcomings and repetitive failures despite the fact that the word of God has clearly stated that Christ has already forgiven them for all their sins past, present, and future. Their real problem is that they just canīt accept it! They feel the need to be punished with Godīs wrath and judgment during the tribulation which is not for the church, but for Israel (Jacobīs trouble / Jer. 30:4-11).


Therefore these Christians are "strong advocates" of the "partial Rapture theory" which is not biblical nor sound doctrinally. Those who adhere to this false teaching believe that some of the body of Christ will be left behind in order to be judged during the tribulation period due to the sin in there lives, whatever that sin or sins might be? This appeals to them greatly since they feel the need to be "purged, judged, and stricken down by God for their continual failure and repetitive sin in their lives."


These kinds of Christians find this false teaching appropriate, reasonable, and very justifiable from a "human perspective", since it is satisfying to their flesh. This false doctrine appeals to their "Self condemnation" which they have been carrying around much too long. The devil loves this kind of thing because it takes alot of the Christians energy and focus away from serving Christ and renders them less than 100% effective in service to Him. They are constantly focused on the sin in their life which they feel the need to be judged! Therefore they are emotionally drained and "stressed out to the max!" No one can serve Christ effectively this way!


I have come up with a name for this "self condemnation syndrome" that these Christians carry around with them. I call it the "Murphyīs law of Christianity" (for every action there is a reaction). These poor saints have failed to see and realize that Christ has already taken all their "Action" (their Sins) and bore them in His own body on the cross (1Peter 2:24). The cross was Christīs demonstration of love for the world (John 3:16). His going to the cross was His "Reaction" or remedy for sin, and was not a "Reaction" of condmenation against the sinner (John 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved). We were helpless (Rom. 5:1-11).



Can a believer ever be "Unsealed" by the Holy Spirit?


Jesus said In John 14:16,17 "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you FOREVER; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, AND WILL BE IN YOU (took place at Pentecost).


Here we have the very words of Jesus state and confirm that when the Holy Spirit comes He will come to indwell and take up permanent residency within the believer (forever). This indwelling of Godīs Holy Spirit cannot be reversed. The Holy Spirit was not sent by Jesus based upon mans human ability and intervention through acts of obedience to religious Law, nor by good moral conduct. He was sent based on a promise.

The word "Abide" is the Greek word Meno / strongsī Greek concordance # 3306 means "to be present." Jesus said that the Holy Spirit abided with them, but that later He would come to indwell them. This took place on the day of Pentecost, which fulfilled "the promise" given by Jesus to His disciples in (John 14:16, 26; 16:7; Acts 1:1-8 Acts 2:32, 33),


(Interjection note:) All the Old Testament saints had the "Abiding" of the Holy Spirit, but not the "Indwelling" of the Holy Spirit, which was not fulfilled until Pentecost. The particular special ministries of the Holy Spirit to the believer in the present age (Grace)
are for the purpose of "the Baptism (1Cor. 12:13), the Indwelling (1Cor. 6:19,20), the filling (Ephesians 5:18), the Sealing (Eph. 1:13). These special ministries will cease at the close of the church age (resurrection/Rapture) which is under grace. The Holy Spirit will return once again following the judgment period (tribulation period) in order to "take up residency within the believer" once again during the kingdom age (Joel 2:28-32).



Jesus had to first go to the cross to make atonement for all sin (Rom.6:10; Col.2:13,14; Heb.9:12, 28 Heb.10:10-14). Then be buried, rise on the third day, and then ascend back to His Father who accepted His sacrifice for sin. Then and only then could the Holy Spirit be sent. If the Father had not accepted Christīs sacrifice for "all sin for all time", then the Holy Spirit would have not been sent and our salvation would be incomplete and non-existent. Thank the Lord that the sacrifice of His Son made a "complete and perfect sacrifice for all of our sins."


Therefore the sending of the Holy Spirit was sent based totally upon Jesusī finished work which brought "eternal redemption" to mankind through His blood (Heb.9:12). Man had NO part in the design, the perfecting, nor the completion of his own redemption (1Cor. 1:30). God through Christ planned it all. The apostle Paul makes this very clear (Rom. 8:3,4).


Question: Why did David cry out in Psalms 51:11 "Do not cast me away from Thy presence, and do not take Thy Holy Spirit from me."


Psalm 51 is a Psalm of David when Nathan the prophet came to him after he (David) had gone in to Bathsheba. David planned the death of Bathshebaīs husband Uriah by putting him on the "Front lines" in order to be killed in a fierce battle. David did this in order that he might have Bathsheba whom he lusted after. You can read about this in 2 Sam. chapter 11.


In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit would come upon and "abide" with the kings of Israel who were anointed to lead the nation. But these kings who were anointed were NOT indwelt with the Holy Spirit as the body of Christ is in this age of grace in-which we now live. In the book of 1Samuel 10:1 we see Samuel anointing Saul as king over Israel "............Has not the Lord anointed you a ruler over His inheritance?" In 1Samuel chapter 16:13, we see that David being anointed with oil by Samuel "Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him (David) in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily "Upon" David from that day onward."


The Hebrew word for "anointed" is the Hebrew word Mashach - Strongsī Hebrew concordance #4886 - means "To rub with oil, to consecrate."


Here we see that David after being anointed with oil by Samuel experienced the Holy Spirit of God coming upon him (abide / not indwell). When David sinned against the Lord with Bathsheba he experienced great conviction and remorse for his sin by which he cries out in Psalms 51:11 "Do not cast me away from Thy presence, and do not take Thy Holy Spirit from me."


David in his grief thought that the presence of the Lord would leave him due to his sin. But scripture shows clearly that the "Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon David from that day onward" (1Sam. 16:13). This shows that the Holy Spirit remained and "abided" with David all the days of his rulership despite his sin, until his death came, which is recorded in 1Kings 2:10-11.



The apostle Paul in His epistles always speaks of the "receiving of Christ", and the "receiving of the Holy Spirit" in the "past perfect tense."


Col. 2:6 "As you therefore "have received Christ Jesus" (Past perfect tense), so walk in Him."

Eph. 1:13 "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, having also believed, you were sealed in Him (past perfect tense) with the Holy Spirit of promise."

Eph. 4:30 "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom "you were sealed" (past perfect tense) for the day of redemption.

These verses in the New Testament epistles and many others like them, which were penned by the apostle Paul by the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit are "always" in the past perfect tense. When you "receive Christ by faith" you also are being simultaneously sealed by The Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13). This divine process does NOT need to be repeated over and over again! You can only be saved once, since Christ died "Once" for sins (Heb. 9:28). Therefore you receive the Holy Spirit only one time because He has promised "I will never leave you nor forsake you" (Heb.13:5; John 14:18).


The spirit of the believer is saved, but the flesh is not. Christ is returning for the purpose of "redeeming" the believers body (glorification Eph. 4:30, 1Cor. 15:50-58, 1Thess. 4:13-18). This new glorified body makes the believer compatible for the eternal state. Jesus is coming to get every saint who is sealed by the Holy Spirit which "He purchased" at the cross with His own blood. The Holy Spirit is the "down payment", and when Christ comes, He will not leave one single child of God behind who possesses His righteousness, whether they are carnal or spiritual in their walk! Christ cannot reject His own righteousness which "every believer in Christ possesses" (2 Cor. 5:21).


Paul never mentions, nor does he ever teach any kind of doctrine in his epistles that suggests that the believer can experience the "Unsealing of the Holy Spirit." It can be found NO WHERE! From the book of Acts, which was a transitional book from Law to grace, all the way to the book of Jude there is nothing BUT SILENCE concerning such a doctrine. If the Holy Spirit could leave the believer once they had received Him, then the Holy Spirit would have most definitely inspired Paul to write extensively on such an important doctrine, but He didnīt, NOT ONE WORD! There is no sin of the believer in Christ, of the past, present, or future which has been committed intentionally, or unintentionally, confessed, or unconfessed at anytime which Jesus has not already paid for in full at the cross (Col. 2:13,14).
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
There are many ministers today who will stand up and preach, teach, scream, stomp their feet, and beat the pulpit with their fist with great emotional conviction saying things such as for example: "The teaching of eternal security of the believer is nothing more than a license to sin. And if you believe this false teaching then you will find yourself possibly burning in hell one day!"


I am amazed at the arrogance and foolishness of these kind of preachers, teachers, and lay people! Anyone who would deliver such a message of condemnation to their audience like the one shown above has openly admitted to everyone that they are in "unbelief." Christīs eternal blood sacrifice = eternal forgiveness for the believer. These kind of people have "trampled the blood of Christ" by suggesting that His blood was not sufficient enough to pay the full penalty for all sin. The scriptures teach just the opposite (Rom. 3:25, 5:10; Eph. 1:7, 2;13; Col. 1:20; Heb. 9:,12,14, 22, 10:10-19).


Eph. 2:8 says: "For by grace "you have been" saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the "Gift" of God." Notice that the "verb tense" is in the "past perfect tense." This past perfect tense shows action that took place "in the past" with continuing results. I got the following off the internet.

Meaning of perfect tense.
This tense is like the aorist in that it also sees the action as taking place in a point in time. The difference is that the perfect also emphasizes continuing results. It denotes completed action in the past with finished results in the present. Therefore Eph. 2:8 read as follows:

Eph.2:8 "For by grace YOU WERE SAVED IN THE PAST WITH CONTINUING RESULTS through faith, and that not of yourselves" (End quote).

In otherwords folks! "You canīt lose your salvation!"

Here is the link that I went to. Greek verbs [link to www.insightbb.com]


Continuing

The ONLY way that the "sealing" of the Holy Spirit could even come close to being reversed in a believers life is if there was "any sin" that Jesus might NOT have paid for at the cross. Whoa! Do you know what this would mean folks? It would mean then that the apostle Paul and all his epistles that he wrote to the church are absolute lies and worthless to the core and should be thrown out. This means then that you would also have to take all four gospels which were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and throw them out with the epistles, since the apostles are nothing more than a bunch of lunatics, Liars, Tricksters, and fools!


Then what you should do is go on National TV and tell the world "They were right!", in that the bible is a Lie! Then after you have done this you might as well go out and live like the devil because at this point there is no salvation to lose folks! Therefore
there is no God, no bible, no Holy Spirit, no sin, no right and wrong, and finally no absolute truth anymore!


The example that I have just demonstrated to you in the above paragraphs shows you just how ridiculous this teaching is concerning losing your salvation and missing the resurrection/Rapture due to sin. Listen to me! God didnīt forget, overlook, or misplace any sin of any kind, of any amount, of any believer, at anytime past, present, or future, which He has not already placed on Christ when He was crucified! Lets face it! The only reason why anyone would teach that a believer can lose their salvation is because they believe that SIN is the culprit! What these kind of people have done unconsciously is this. They have just called God "a liar."


So for anyone who thinks that a believer in Christ can lose their salvation or miss the resurrection/Rapture due to sin, Then go ahead and make a fool of yourself by trying to "Undo all" that God has accomplished through Christ. The Holy Spirit could NOT be sent until Jesus Died, was buried, and resurrected, and then ascend to His Father. If anyone thinks that you can undo this! Then you are "totally delusioned!"

Again for clarification! If the death of Christ didnīt make atonement for all of our sins, then the Holy Spirit would NOT have been sent, and the sacrifice of Christ would have been "incomplete!" The salvation and the security of the believer by the sealing of the Holy Spirit was all accomplished by God through the redemptive work of Christ. It is impossible scripturally to lose your salvation or miss the resurrection/Rapture as a child of God due to any kind of sin. Christ has already "Settled" the sin issue for us at the cross! Those of us who are "In Christ" by faith "have been sealed" with the Holy Spirit "for the day of redemption" ( Eph. 4:30).


Therefore He (Christ) is able also "to save forever" those who draw near to God through Him, since He "always lives" (eternal) to make intercession for them.
(Heb. 7:25)

1st Cor.1:7-9 “……. awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, “who shall also CONFIRM YOU TO THE END, BLAMELESS in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.(resurrection/Rapture) “God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
I would like to do a "short review" by making a short list of a few things that we have learned so far. Sadly many have never learned these foundational truths.

1. Grace is Godīs "unmerited favor." Salvation is a "gift" (Rom. 3:24, 6:23). It must be received by faith apart from the works of the Law (Gal. 2:16). Therefore Man is justified by grace through faith in Christ alone (Rom. 3:20; Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:4-7).

2. The believer has received the righteousness of God through Christ (Rom. 3:22, 4:5, 5:18, 5:21; 1Cor. 1:21; 2Cor. 5:21; Phil 3:9). This allows the believer to stand before a Holy God without condemnation (Rom. 8:1,2). God can never reject His own righteousness which comes through faith in His Son (2Cor. 5:21). Therefore the believer can never be rejected by God, since they can never lose the righteousness of Christ, which is confirmed by the sealing of the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13).

3. The believer has received "eternal redemption" (not temporal nor conditional) through the blood of Christ (Heb. 9:12). The believers "salvation" is eternal and for keeps (Heb. 9:12). Jesus only needed to die "once for sin for all time" (Heb. 10: 10-14). The believer is fully justified through faith in Christ (Rom. 3:24, 5:1-9, 8:30; 1Cor. 6:11; Gal. 2:16).

5. Those who are in Christ have received Godīs "wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, which is Godīs doing only, and not the believers doing (1Cor. 1:30). Salvation is all Godīs work from the beginning to the end (Eph. 2:10; Phil 1:6).

6. The Holy Spirit only "abided" with the Old Testament believer (John 14:17), but He did not "indwell" them. On the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit finally came. The believer can never lose the "sealing of the Holy Spirit" since He remains with the believer forever based upon the complete, perfect, and finished work of Christ. This eternal work of Chirst allowed the Holy Spirit to be sent from heaven for the purpose of permanently indwelling the believer (John 14:16). The indwelling ministry of the Holy Spirit empowers the believer so that they can live for Christ while they live here upon the earth in their natural corruptible bodies (Gal. 5:16).

7. The believer can never lose their position as a child of God in Christ, since the believer is baptized, indwelt, and sealed by the Holy Spirit "for the day of redemption" (2Cor 1:21,22; Eph. 1:13; 4:30). This happens at the instant of their conversion to Christ, which places them into the body of Christ (1Cor. 12:13). The Holy Spirit bears witness with the believers spirit that they are indeed the children of God (Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 4:6).



And the dead "in Christ" shall rise first!


This short phrase "In Christ" is a very important phrase which "hinges" off of the foundational doctrinal truths of Justification, sanctification, redemption, and grace which Paul the apostle teaches throughout the New Testament epistles, and of which are "inseparable" from the phrase itself. This phrase is used in reference to the believer who has already been "Justified, sanctified, and redeemed by the grace of God, which comes through faith in Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:8-10).


Therefore when a Christian understands these "foundational doctrinal truths", they then possess the "the key" which will unlock the door to the divine scriptural teaching on the "security of the believer" who is in Christ. This phrase "In Christ" then takes on a new precious meaning for the Christian. As a result all the "fear and confusion" which surrounds those who teach that a believer can "lose their salvation, or miss the Rapture" (partial Rapture theory) due to sin in their lives simply goes flying right out the window into "oblivion" never to return!


The first time that this phrase "in Christ" can be found is in the book of Acts 24:24 which says: "But some days later, Felix arrived with Drusilla, and his wife who was a Jewess, and sent for Paul, and heard him speak about faith in Christ Jesus.


You can see here that In this text the phrase "In Christ Jesus" is being used in relationship to the apostle Paul "speaking about" faith in Christ Jesus to those whom he was with. In the epistles the Paul uses this phrase "In Christ" in relationship to the believers who have "already" put their faith and trust in Christ (the church). For instance, Paul opens up the book of Philippians saying "Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, to all the saints "in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi..........etc." The apostle Paul opens up a number of His epistles this way (1Cor; Eph; Col; 2Tim).


The apostle Paul could only use this phrase "In Christ" in His epistles based upon the "whole revelation" of New Testament doctrine which was revealed to him by God (Gal. 1:11,12). This phrase "hinges" off of Paulīs divine teaching of justification, sanctification, redemption, and grace which are taught in the Pauline letters to the church. This is foundational for the believers faith in Christ.


The "KJV Bible" records this phrase "in Christ" as being used 79 times out of 78 verses in the New Testament. This phrase and the teaching which surrounds it is found no where in the Old Testament. The last time that it is mentioned in the Bible in all the translations is in 1Peter 5:14 "Peace be to you who are In Christ." It is not used in 2 Peter; 1,2,3 John; or Jude. And it is found no where in the book of Revelation, which is Jewish in content.


This phrase "in Christ" can be found any where from 79 to 90 times or so in the Bible depending on what version you use. It is found no where in the gospels, which is appropriate since the gospels are the "life and ministry of Christ to the nation of Israel under the Law" (Gal. 4:4,5 ). Therefore the body of Christ does not get their New Testament "doctrinal teaching" from the gospels. Jesus taught from the Old Testament prophets. In the gospels We see the examples of Christ and his life as well as other important teaching, such as Christīs second advent to the earth.

Church doctrine is a "new administration of faith" Eph. 1:10, 3:9; 1Tim 1:4). The teaching on the resurrection/Rapture is taught by the apostle Paul in his epistles. The church was a "Mystery" (Eph. 3:3-12) that was not revealed until much later after Pentecost (birth of the church).

Listen to what Dr. Dwight Pentecost has to say on this subject from His book "Thy Kingdom Come" Chapter 17 page 184.

(quote) "Chronologically speaking, there is a 400-year gap between Malachi and Matthew. Logically and thematically, however, there is no gap at all (meaning that the Law still continued from Malachi to Matthew despite this gap of time). The New Testament immediately takes up where the Old Testament prophets left off. In fact, "technically" the New Testament does not begin with Matthew, but with the book of Acts.

The Gospels demonstrate that Godīs program still continued with the nation Israel. Israel was still under the Law, and everything continued as it had during the prophetic period (Old Testament). The message was directed to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel, and excluded the Gentiles (Matt. 10:5,6).


The Law, in fact, was not abolished at the birth of Christ, but rather His death; and the message of the Gospels concerns the
fulfillment of all that the prophets predicted. Thus there is an unbroken continuity between the prophets and the Gospels (end quote).


In light of what was quoted above concerning the gospels. It is understandable why so many are confused when it comes to the resurrection program for the "church." Many go to the gospels in order to try and apply all the "second advent" texts scriptures to the church. This is wrong! The church is not the subject of the gospels. The church was a "Mystery" not yet revealed (Eph. 3:1-20; Col. 1:25-27). The focus and subject of the gospels is all about "The life and ministry of Christ to His people Israel under the Law" (Matt. 5:5,6 15:24). Christ offered His people Israel the promised kingdom, but they rejected the official offer by rejecting Him! (Matt. 27:25; Luke 19:14). Therefore the kingdom was not established, but was "put on hold" until a future time.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
In Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 Jesus is teaching His disciples about the events that will unfold during the tribulation period, which are heralding the second advent of Christ the Messiah to the earth. These "second advent texts" in the gospels are NOT teaching about the Rapture event. Many will use Luke 21:36 which says: "But keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may be found worthy to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."


This text is a "Tribulation text" which is speaking to Israel and to those Jews who will be alive during the tribulation period, and who will be witnessing these terrible judgments, which Jesus just got done expounding upon. When Jesus says "pray in order that they might be found worthy to escape all these things.", He was addressing His disciples (not the church), and also that generation of Jews who will be experiencing those tribulation judgments at that time. This scripture here in Luke is in context with Matt. 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, it is he who will be saved."


Both texts in Matthew and Luke are talking about the same thing. The "One who endures to the end, it is he who will be saved" is talking about those Jews who will have "survived to the end of the tribulation period." This is made very clear in Daniel 12:12 which says: "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!" Why? Because the Messiah is going to show up, and thus those Jews who survived the tribulation period will be able to "Stand before the Son of Man" as Luke 21:36 states.


The text in Luke is a classic example of people "misquoting" out of context to make an application to the body of Christ. They use these scriptures because they think a believer can miss the Rapture, or lose their salvation. As a matter of fact they will use the text in Luke 21:13 in order to show how you "can miss the resurrection" due to your "unwatchfulness, unprayerful attitude, etc." Again these people are taking scriptures which apply to Israel out of context, and they are trying to apply them to the church. You cannot do this without totally destroying the context of these scriptures. Sadly many donīt care about the context of scripture any more. They just want something to "hang their hat on!"



Examining the text of 1Thessalonians (4:13-18).



I am sorry that it has take this long to get to this scripture text of 1Thessalonians chapter four. But it was vital and necessary to lay a "foundation of scriptural truth" for those who will be reading this article. This ground work of scriptures that I have laid will give them greater understanding of the passage of 1Thess. 4:13-18. This study will help many who are confused on the teachings of the "security of the believer", and will also help those who have been taught that a believer can "miss the Rapture" (partial Rapture theory) due to sin in their lives. This article has been written specifically for those believers who are struggling with these two issues.


(13). "But we do not want you to be uniformed, brethren , about those who are asleep (dead), that you may not grieve, as do the rest who have no hope. (14). For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring "with Him" those who have fallen asleep in Jesus (in Christ).

(15). For this we say to you by the word of the lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep (died).

(16). For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the "dead in Christ" shall rise first.

(17). Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord."

(18) Therefore comfort one another with these words.


Question: Who is Jesus bringing with Him when he returns in the air?
Answer: The spirits of those who have already died "in Jesus" (in Christ) 1Thess. 4:14

Question: How in the world did they get there? And why were they allowed entry into heaven?
Answer: They got there through the process of "death" (they died), and they were allowed entry into heaven at the time of their death because they had believed the gospel of Jesus Christ ( 1Thess. 4:14; Rom. 10:9,10, 13).

Question: So these spirits of the dead saints in Christ who are returning with Jesus were allowed to enter heaven by grace through faith? (Eph. 2:8,9).
Answer: Absolutely! Paul the apostle says: "Because by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified in His sight" (Rom. 3:20).

Question: Why are these disembodied spirits of the church saints returning with Jesus?
Answer: They are returning with Jesus in order to get their resurrected bodies because it is Godīs resurrection program for His completed bride, the church.

Question: These spirits of those dead saints who are returning with Jesus. Are they getting new resurrected bodies because they earned or merited them?
Answer: NO! They are getting glorified bodies because Christ was raised from the dead (1Cor. 15:11-20). There spirits were already saved which is shown by the fact that they were already in heaven and are seen returning with Christ. There bodies are the only thing that needs to be redeemed (1Cor. 15;50-58; Eph. 4:30).

Question: Therefore does the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ "testify" to the fact that His work was sufficient enough to perfect these saints salvation, and thus give them a glorified body at the time of His appearing apart from works?

Answer: YES! According to scripture no one can "earn or merit" eternal life, nor enter heaven by their works (Eph. 2:8,9). These saints who are returning with Jesus had already entered heaven by grace through faith "Before" the resurrection had taken place. How could they have possibly "earned or merited" their new resurrected bodies at the time of the resurrection/ Rapture, since they were already dead?

Question: When Christ appears then. Do those who are alive "in Christ" have to "earn or merit" the Rapture which also transforms their corruptible bodies into new resurrected bodies?

Answer: NO! The living saints who are caught up alive will receive their glorified bodies the same way as the "dead in Christ" will have received their glorified bodies "by grace through faith in Christ alone!" 1Thess. 4:17 says that the "dead in Christ" and the "living in Christ" are both caught up "together" to meet the Lord in the Air. The spirits of Both the "dead in Christ", and the "living in Christ" have already been made righteous "prior" to the resurrection event.

Question: Does the Christians "obedience" or "lack of obedience" to Christ have anything to do with "guaranting" or "disqualifying"
a believer in Christ of there resurrected glorified body when Christ appears?

Answer: Absolutely not! The "Dead in Christ" mentioned in 1Thess. 4:14 had already received "Godīs righteousness" through faith in Christ before they died. Otherwise they would have never entered into heaven, and therefore they wouldnīt be returning with Jesus in 1Thess. 4:14. The same is required of the living saints. God doesnīt have a "double standard."

Question: Based on these scriptural facts that we have reviewed. When Christ appears, are those saints then who are alive and "in Christ" going to qualify and be allowed to partake in the resurrection program? Will they be "caught up" in glorified bodies into the presence of the Lord based on the same scriptural rules and guide lines that the "already dead in Christ" had to be qualified with in order for them to partake in the resurrection?

Answer: YES! God doesnīt flip flop, nor does He change His rules at the last moment for the "redemption of man." Whether a saint in Christ is "already dead", or whether they are "still alive" when Christ appears. Both have to be saved by "grace through faith in Christ alone" in order to be able to enter into the presence of God in their glorified bodies. You cannot be called a saint unless Christ is in you!

Question: Is there any other additional demands or criteria such as "good behavior, faithfulness, watching, praying, cleaning your garment, keeping oil in your lamp, looking for His appearing (Which some teach), or any other religious conduct or duty that is mentioned in this text of 1Thess. 4:13-18, other than being "in Christ?"

Answer: Absolutely not! Paul the apostle says in verse (14). For "if we believe" that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring "with Him" those who have fallen asleep in Jesus (in Christ). Paul says right here in this verse that in order to participate in the resurrection event, one must "believe that Jesus died and arose again." Do you see any "good works" being demanded here in the text? Thatīs right! I donīt either! All I see is the "righteousness of Christ" that the believer possesses (in Christ) (2Cor. 5:21).

Question: Is God going to require "good works and merited favor" for the purpose of giving a glorified body to those saints who are alive when He appears? Or is God going to give to those saints in Christ who are alive when He appears a glorified body based on His righteousness which they already possess?

Answer: They will get a glorified body based ONLY on Godīs righteousness which they possess in Christ. Romans chapter 8 verses 9, 10, 11 gives us the answer to this important question.

(9). However you are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God "dwells in you." But if anyone does "not have" the Spirit of Christ, he does NOT belong to Him."

(10). And if Christ is IN YOU, though the body is dead because of sin, YET the spirit is alive because of "RIGHTEOUSNESS."

(11). But if the Spirit of Him who raised Christ Jesus from the dead "dwells in you", He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your "mortal bodies" through His Spirit who indwells you."


Do you know what folks! I could stop writing this article right now after what Paul has just stated! Paul the apostle makes absolutely clear here in this text that the believer is going to get their glorified bodies based solely upon the fact that their "spirit" has been made righteous by the indwelling Holy Spirit of God. The apostle Paul mentions "NOTHING" about "good works or merited favor" from God. But he emphatically states that those who have the "indwelling" of Godīs Holy Spirit will receive their glorified bodies (Rom. 8:11). Add this scripture to Eph. 1:13, and Eph. 4:30, and you donīt need anymore explaning!

Eph. 1:13 "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, "YOU WERE SEALED" in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

Eph. 4:30 " And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom YOU WERE SEALED "For the day of redemption" ( the resurrection of the body and its glorification).


Question: Donīt you think that if there were other important rules and guide lines which the church saints needed to know in order to qualify in the resurrection/Rapture, that God would have inspired the apostle Paul to list them right here in this most important text of 1thess. 4:13-18? Donīt you think that God should have prompted and inspired the apostle Paul to write at least one chapter if not several chapters on such an important teaching?

Answer: ABSOLUTELY! But He didnīt! Which means then that there was NO additional requirements!


Do you know what all this means folks! It means that this event in 1Thess. 4:13-18 is NOT a "merited" event gained by the Christians good moral conduct and holy living. Stop and think about this! Our Christian brothers and sisters in Christ who have already died, and who will be returning with Jesus were NOT allowed entry into the presence of God by their Christian moral conduct and holy living, BUT by grace through faith in Christ alone they entered into heaven! Likewise those saints in Christ who will be alive at the time of His appearing will be under the same scriptural requirements for being allowed to enter into the presence of God, which is by grace through faith in Christ alone. Therefore they have "every right" to recieve a glorified body at this time!

Now tell me! How in world can God discriminate against any believer "in Christ" who has received "Godīs righteousness" by grace through faith in His Son (Rom. 3:22; 2Cor. 5:21). How then can God deny any believer from participating in the resurrection/ Rapture due to the "Lack of good works", since they have already received Christ by "faith" (Eph. 2:8,9), at which time they were sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13)? Thatīs right, HE CANīT! If God were to deny the believer, then He would be rejecting "His own righteousness" which the "Dead in Christ" and the "Living in Christ" have both received through faith in Christ! This can never happen because God would rejecting His own divine righteousness.


Question: Is the righteousness of God through Christ, which the believer receives by faith "enough" to satisfy God.?
Answer: Yes! Romans 8:10 "And if Christ is in you though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness" (Godīs righteousness through Christ).


Question: How do we receive the "righteousness of God?"
Answer: Rom. 3:22 "Even "The righeousness of God" through "faith in Jesus Christ" for all those who believe......etc."

2Cor. 5:17 "If any man "be in Christ" he is a new creation, The "old things" (Sin and its penalty) passed away; behold, new things have come."

Gal. 6:15 "For neither is circumcision anything (keeping the Law), nor uncircumcision (not keeping the Law), But a NEW CREATION." Eph. 2:10 "For "WE" (the believer) are "His worksmanship" CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS................etc."


Question: How do we become a "new creation" in Christ.
Answer: By receiving the simple gospel of Jesus Christ "by faith" (Rom. 10:9,10).

Question: Once again, How do we receive the "righteousness of God?"
Answer: Rom. 3:22 "Even "the righteousness of God" through "faith in Jesus Christ" for all those who believe......etc."


The Godly conduct of a Christian, or the "lack of their Godly conduct." Whether they were carnal in their walk in Christ (1Cor. 5:1-5), or whether they were "spiritual" in their walk in Christ is NOT the the determining factor as to whether or not a Christian will get a "glorified body" at the time of the resurrection/Rapture. According to the apostle Paul in 1Thess. 4:14. The only important factor which determines whether "anyone" gets a glorified body at the time of the resurrection is that "one must believe that Jesus died and rose again" 1Thess. 4:14. This means then that they have "the sealing of the Holy Spirit" (Eph. 1:13, 4:30).


Question: Why would God let the "dead in Christ" enter into heaven (in spirit) at the moment of their physical death based solely on the fact that they were saved "by grace through faith" apart from works (Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:4-7), sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13, 4:30)? And then at Christīs appearing demand "works and good merit" from the living saints "in Christ" just just because these living saints happen to be alive when Christ appears. It isnīt the saints fault that they happened to be alive at the time of Christīs appearing, BUT that doesnīt matter to God does it! If God can make the rules on salvation then He can break them right? So now God is going to demand that which Christ destroyed, which was sin and death under the Law (Gal. 2:18-21), and nullify the "grace of God" (Gal. 2:21), and thus God is going to "rebuild and reinstate the Law" at the time of Christīs appearing for the purpose of forcing the living saints (not the dead) in Christ to have to merit and earn their right" to participate in the resurrection program of God, just so they can get their glorified bodies! Does this sound like Something God would do!

Are you kidding me! God is not mocked! (Gal. 6:7) Nor is He a liar! (Titus 1:2)


Listen! The righteousness of Christ can bring "redemption to the physical body" ONLY if the spirit of that person is saved through the righteousness of Christ. For the spirit does not need the body in order to live eternally, BUT the "physical body" needs the righteous spirit of that saint in order to live eternally.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
LISTEN TO ME CAREFULLY! The "spirit" can live without the body, BUT the body "cannot live" without the "spirit." So why should Christ when He comes even bother with taking the bodies of the living saints? Why doesnīt Jesus just take the spirit of the living saints who have received the righteousness of God through Christ by faith (Rom. 3:22), and just yank them right out of their bodies and forget about the flesh, since the spirit can live without the body?


And for another reason! Why should Christ when He appears even bother then with raising the dead bodies of those saints who He is bringing with him at the time of His appearing, and who are already alive in Christ, in spirit? For they were already found righteous by their faith in Christ, and therefore were allowed to enter into the presence of God at the moment of their death. Why raise their dead bodies? They donīt need them! No living saint in Christ at the present time has to die in order to get eternal life. They already have it! (John 5:24).


MY POINT IS THIS FOLKS! The resurrection/Rapture is NOT a "works merited event." It has nothing to do with saving the spirit of anyone. The spirits of the dead saints who are coming with Jesus have "already been made righteous" by faith in Christ as well as the spirits of the living saints when Christ appears. This one event is not about saving mans soul. It is only about glorifying the saints body (1Cor. 15:50-58; Eph. 4:30). The resurrection "is" the Rapture, and the Rapture "is" the resurrection. Therefore we are only talking about "one resurrection." There is only "one spiritually identified group" in this text of 1Thess. 4:13-18 who are being raised. It is the "dead saints" and the "living saints" who are in Christ. They make up the "whole complete body of Christ." Both are caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1Thess. 4:17).


Therefore Jesus is coming for "one purpose, and one purpose only!" He is simply coming in order to give the "already righteous saints" who are dead in Christ, and who are coming with Him a new body (1Thess. 4:14). And He is also coming in order to give the "already righteous saints" who are still alive in Christ a new body (1Thess. 4:17). They did not "earn" their new bodies by the "works of their flesh" which is "perishable and corruptible" (1Cor. 15:50-55). BUT they are receiving their new glorified bodies ONLY because their spirits were made righteous by the righteousness of God through Christ prior to the event (Rom. 8:10). God is going to quicken that perishable and corruptible body and transform it into a body which is "imperishable and incorruptible" (1Cor. 15:50-58). Those spirits of those dead saints, and those spirits of the living saints have to occupy that body in order for that body to "Live forever!" All God is doing at the time of the resurrection/Rapture is giving new resurrected bodies to the "dead" and the "living" in Christ.


They just canīt forgive themselves, even though Christ has!


Those who teach that the believer in Christ can miss the Rapture, or lose their salvation are people who are all hung up on the whole issue of "SIN." Either their own sin in their own lives, which they cannot forgive themselves for. Or the sin in other so called "professing Christians" lives whom they observe failing over and over again. Whatever their reasons! Scripture emphatically teaches that Jesus has already paid "the debt or penalty" for all of our sins and has "nailed it to the cross" (Col 2:13:14). They just cannot forgive themselves, and therefore they donīt believe that God should forgive them either.


This is why this false teaching of "losing your salvation, and missing the Rapture" due to sin appeals so much to these people. Their reasoning is that "God needs to thrust them into the terrible horrors of the tribulation period so they can be purged and judged for their failures, and shortcomings." This makes sense to them since they are in a state of "self condemnation." This terrible cycle could be completely stopped if they would just "TRUST" what the word of God already clearly states. Jesus has already died for all sin for all time! (Heb. 10:10-14). Question: Since the penalty for all sin was paid for by Christ. What penalty for sin do those who are in Christ have to pay for? Thatīs right! NONE!


God is at this present time is in the process of completing His bride (the church). When the body of Christ is therefore completed, then the "age of grace will close" with the resurrection of ALL the saints who are "in Christ", dead or alive! The reason for ending the age of grace is so that God can "restart" His prophetic program with Israel, which involves "judgment and wrath" (tribulation period / Jacobīs trouble). The church saints in Christ are not destined for wrath of judgment of any kind (Rom. 5:9, 8:1,2; 1Thess. 5:9).


Appyling the "partial Rapture theory" to 1Thess. 4:13-18


Since we have now answered some important questions. We will now "apply" the "partial Rapture theory" to this text in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. What will happen when we do this is that it will "reveal" how unscriptural this teaching really is. Once people see the falsehood of the "partial Rapture theory", in that it is grossly flawed with all kinds of "loop holes" theologically. They will then see that it is impossible for any believer to lose their salvation, since both teachings are fueled by "good works and merited favor", or the lack of it. This teaching "throws a monkey wrench" into the work of Christ!


The partial Rapture theory is built upon nothing more than the false teaching that one can lose their salvation. All those who support this false teaching of a "partial resurrection" of the church saints are usually people who believe one can forfeit their salvation through disobedience and sin in their lives. The scriptures that we have already examined show very clearly that this is a false doctrine which is not supported, nor taught in the New Testament epistles by the apostle Paul. Godīs word was divinely inspired by God (2Tim 3:16,17).


Therefore God cannot contradict Himself. It is people who bring "confusion and contradiction" to Godīs word by their use of "perverted interpretations" which are built upon their "lack of insight and spiritual understanding" of the word of God. There are a number of reasons for this, of which one may very well be that they donīt possess the Holy Spirit who teaches and guides the believer into "All truth" (John 16:13-15). If this is the case? Then they have never been saved by grace through faith, since they donīt possess the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:9).


In order go to continue I need to ask the same 3 questions once again, that I asked earlier.


Question: How many groups of church saints (categorically identified) do you see in this resurrection/Rapture text of 1Thess. 4:13-18.
Answer: Thatīs right, Only two!


Question: What is the difference between them categorically?
Answer: They consist of those who have already died in Christ (1Tess. 4;14). And those who are alive in Christ at the time of His appearing (1Thess. 4:17). So there are two groups "the living" and "the dead."

Now listen carefully!

Question: How many groups of church saints can be "spiritually identified" in this resurrection/Rapture text?

Answer: Thatī right! Only one. And who is this one spiritual group? Thatīs right! It is the dead in Christ, and the living in Christ who make up the "one body of Christ." The church is "one in Christ" by the indwelling of Godīs Holy Spirit "For by one Spirit we were "ALL" baptized into one body" (1Cor. 12:13).


The apostle Paul also teaches the following: "There is one body (the body of Christ) and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope (the blessed hope / Titus 2:13) of your calling. one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all" (Eph. 4:-6).


As you can see the scriptures teach clearly that the believer is "baptized into"one body" by the Holy Spirit" (1Cor. 12:13; Eph. 4:4-6). This position in Christ which the believer has received was not attained by their works (Eph. 2:8-10), but this position was received as a gift by grace through faith in Christ alone, which sealed them with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13). And thus the Holy Spirit has placed them into the "one body of Christ" (1Cor. 12:13).


The text of 1Thess. 4:13-18 is clearly speaking of only "one spiritual body" of believers. This can be confirmed easily by the phrase "in Christ" which identifies them. Though there are "two categories" of saints identified as "the dead ", and "the living", yet they are still only one body spiritually. These saints did not attain their position in Christ through good works, and merited favor. They are only participating in Godīs resurrection program because of their "spiritual identity" as being one "in Christ." No one can be "in Christ" unless the Holy Spirit indwells them (Rom. 8:9; Eph. 1:13).


Since the "partial Rapture theory" is built upon "good works and merited favor" in order to qualify for the resurrection event. We then have to "reconstruct" the text of 1Thess 4:13-18 by using the framework of "works" which causes us to have to create 4 additional categories of people "outside" of the scriptures context. Then we have to interject them back into the text itself. Of course you will shortly see how this destroys the scripture passage which is built upon "grace" and not upon mans "works or merited favor." You cannot mix Law with grace! Godīs word is clear about this!


Thus the reconstructing of 1Thess. 4:13-18 is necessary for the purpose of being able to "apply the rules" of this teaching of the partial Rapture theory to each new category of people that this theory creates by its own theological demands and doctrinal structure. The partial Rapture theory requires this reconstruction of the text, since this false teaching is driven by "Good works, and merited favor." Godīs spiritual guide lines and requirement for mans salvation is only by grace through faith in Christ, apart from works (Titus 3:4-7).


These spiritual guide lines from the word of God therefore must apply to both the "dead" and to the "living." To those who are alive at the time of Christīs appearing, and to those who are already dead at the time of Christīs appearing. No category of people are exempt. Whether a saint is transported into the presence of God through the process of "death", or transported into the presence of God by being "snatched up alive" at the time of Christīs appearing. Which ever takes place first. Either way, both are taken into the presence of God only because they possess the righteousness of God through Christ by faith alone! The dead and the living in Christ fall under the same scriptural guide lines for being able to stand in the presence of God.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
Here are the 4 categories of people that the "partial Rapture theory" creates when applying it to 1Thess. 4:13-18 text in the context of "good works and merited favor."


group 1. Those church saints who are dead in Christ, and whoīs spirits are returning with Jesus (1Thess. 4:14) at the time of His appearing in order to get their glorified bodies, and who also earned their right to participate in the resurrection/Rapture event based on "their good works and merited favor" during their life on earth. (Not supported in the text, nor anywhere else in scripture)


group 2. Those church saints who are dead in Christ, but their spiritīs could not return with Jesus because they did not produce enough "good works" which would have given them "merited favor" with God while they were alive on the earth, and thus they would have earned them their right to participate in the resurrection/Rapture event. Therefore they were left behind in heaven to be disembodied. (Not supported in the text, nor anywhere else in the New Testament epistles)


group 3. Those church saints in Christ who are alive bodily at the time of His appearing (1Thess. 4:17), who therefore earned their right to participate in the resurrection at the time of Christīs appearing based on their "good works and merited favor" with God (Not supported in the text, nor anywhere else in the New Testament epistles)


group 4. Those church saints in Christ who are alive bodily at the time of His appearing, but who did not earn the privilege nor the right to participate in the resurrection of the living saints at the time of the resurrection/Rapture program. Their "Lack of good works and merited favor" prevented them from partaking in this event. Therefore they were left behind to go through the tribulation period in order to be "purged and purified", and thus die a terrible death for the punishment of their sins. (Not supported in the text, nor anywhere else in the New Testament epistles)


You can see here how the partial Rapture theory has totally distorted, perverted, and destroyed the context of 1Thess. 4:13-18.
Christ has already paid the full price for all sin! I have listed many scriptures showing this throughout this study. Therefore "No purging" by the tribulation period is needed for the sins of any believer in Christ. The bimah seat of Christ is for the purpose of burning up the believers deeds done in the power of their flesh. This is the ONLY purging of fire that is seen in scripture in relationship to the church saints. Not only that! But this purging is not for the purpose of cleansing the believer of sin. Christ has already cleansed us when we trusted in Him (1Cor. 6:11). This purging by fire which takes place at the "Bimah" is solely for the purpose of burning up those deeds which were done in the power of the flesh by the Christian, whether carnal, or spiritual (1Cor. 3:11-15; 2Cor. 5:10).


Question: Therefore what sin or sins do Christians need to suffer for?
Answer: NONE! Jesus has already paid the full penalty for ALL SIN which was "Death" (Rom. 6:23). No where in scripture does it ever teach that "man is purified and justified by his suffering for his own sins! This is a "works salvation" which tramples all over the grace of God!


Question: According to the partial Rapture theory. What is now going to happen to those disembodied spiritīs of the church saints who were not allowed to come with Jesus from heaven (1Thess. 4:14)? And who denied to participate in the resurrection since they didnīt qualify for the event due to their "lack of good works and merited favor" during their life upon the earth?

Answer: Nothing is going to happen to them! Why? Because the partial Rapture theoryīs "disembodied spirits" do not exist!


Do you see how confusing and contradictory to the teachings of the apostle Paul this "partial Rapture theory" is! It creates more chaos and tremendous theological problems and adds "new revelation and teaching" to the already inspired and completed word of God. The Holy Spirit inspired scriptures (2Tim. 3:16) has never entertained the idea of a "partial Rapture theory" in Godīs word. The apostle Paul who wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit did not write about, nor did he ever mention one word of this teaching in scripture. Not one word! He was totally silent!


The partial Rapture theory therefore "divides" the body of Christ into "four different groups" by placing them back under the Law of "works and merited favor" for the sole purpose of "qualifying the living saints" to be allowed entry into the presence of God. This is totally unscriptural! The apostle Paul teaches just the opposite! The church can never return back under the Law, since she has been sanctified once and for all by grace through faith (Heb. 10:10-14).


This "partial Rapture theory" and its teaching has been created in the minds of those who lack basic knowledge of important doctrinal and foundational truths such as "Justification, sanctification, redemption, the sealing of the Holy Spirit, and grace", which are vitally important for understanding the Biblical sound teaching of the "security of the believer" and the "resurrection program of God."


In order for God to support this false teaching of the "partial Rapture theory" He would have to "rewrite" the Bible since "sin" and "faith", or the lack of it is the whole issue here. Not just in the New Testament, but in the Old Testament as well. Abraham lived before the Law was given, and yet scripture says that Abraham was justified by faith apart from works (Rom. 4:1-5). The
scriptural criteria for the salvation of man never changes from Godīs perspective. His rules apply to the dead as well as to the living (Rom. 3:20; Eph. 2:8-10). As the old saying goes "What is good for the goose, is good for the gander" God and the Holy Spirit do NOT flip flop on their doctrinal teachings in scripture, nor do they bend the rules! If they did! Then the word of God could not be trusted!


Do you understand now why these "4 categories of people" had to be created and added to the text of 1Thess. 4:13-18? They had to be added because as you apply this teaching of the "partial Rapture theory" to this resurrection passage here in 1Thess. 4:13-18. It demands and forces one to "add to the context" the teaching of "good works and merited favor." Adding to the scriptures carries a "Curse" (Rev. 22:18). This goes totally against the teachings of the apostle Paul which are built upon unmerited favor (grace). The partial Rapture theory "blows a hole wide open in the apostle Paulīs teaching, and theology!" This can never be since the apostle Paul wrote by divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2Tim. 3:16,17).


It is either by "grace", or "works" Folks! The Rapture "is" the resurrection, and the resurrection "is" the Rapture! This one event is about completing the bride of Christ, ending the church age, and thus giving eternal bodies to the dead in Christ, and to the living in Christ at the time of Christīs appearing. The saintīs of God need glorified bodies in order to be compatible for the eternal state!


God cannot take home an incomplete bride. If He did, then the body of Christ would be dismembered. The age of grace has to close with the completion of the body of Christ here on earth. According to the partial Rapture theory and its teaching. Those disembodied Church saints who would have been left in heaven at the time of Christīs appearing due to their lack of good works and merited favor would be disqualified from partaking in the Bimah seat of Christ. Why? because scripture shows clearly that the church (the bride of Christ) has to be complete and in her glorified body state in order to be given her rewards at the Bimah seat of Christ, which takes place at the time the resurrection (1Cor. 3:11-15, 15:50-58; 2Cor. 5:10). Therefore no church saint in Christ can be left out!


There is no teaching in the New Testament epistles which gives the "partial Rapture theory" a scriptural foundation to build on. It is therefore impossible to apply the partial Rapture theory "scripturally, rationally, or theologically to Godīs resurrection program. This theory is based totally on "good works, and merited favor" which is not a guaranteed assurance for the believer, since the Christians walk and performance can be negatively influenced by the weakness of the flesh, which draws the Christian to partake in temptation and sin.


Therefore how would a Christian know "when" they have sinned one too many times, and thus they have crossed the point of no return? How would they know when they were disqualified? What "spiritual gauge" do they have in their possession that can measure "the amount" of sin which could disqualify them, or the "less amount" of sin which would qualify them? How much sin can you commit before you can lose your salvation, or miss the Rapture?


Do you think that God would leave His children unequipped, destitute, and without a definite solution for such a serious matter? Surely He would have disclosed a "spiritual mechanism" within the word of God for the benefit of those whom He says He loves! Surely the Holy Spirit would have inspired the apostle Paul to write extensively on this subject of great importance in order to spare the saints from destruction!


The fact of the matter is folks", "THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW" from the word of God when a believer has crossed over the line due to sin. Do you know why? Because there is no line to cross, because salvation is by grace through faith apart from works. There is no amount of sin that can forfeit the believers salvation! There is "no sin" whatsoever which can disqualify a church saint of God from participating in the resurrection program. There is "no sin" left undone which Christ has not already paid for in full at the cross! There is "no sin" greater, nor more powerful than the shed blood of Jesus Christ! As the old hymn says: "Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain, He washed it white as snow." HALLELUJAH!


The resurrection according to the scripture in 1Thess. 4:13-18 is for "all those who are in Christ." The ONLY mechanism for gauging sin which God has seen fit to give to man was the "mechanism of the cross" where Christ shed His eternal blood for ALL SIN for ALL TIME , forever, and forever, and forever into eternity! This teaching of "earning the right" to get ones glorified body, and to participate in the resurrection program of God is all based on the justification of man by his works! Sorry folks! "It doesnīt "WORK" that way!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
After these things Rev. 4:1 (after the church age is over) Then What?


"The Bema Seat of Christ" (Rev. 4:10)


The "Bimah seat of Christ" is for the purpose of what? It is for the purpose of "Examining" the Christians "works" in order to see if a reward can be given. What method does God use in order to examine the believers works? Scripture says that at the time of the "Bimah" God will put the Christians "works" on the altar in heaven and test it with "FIRE" (1Cor. 3:11-15). The fire of God will be "the first and final test" of the believers works in order to "separate" the deeds which were done by the believer in the power of the Holy Spirit, from the deeds which were done in the power of the believers flesh" (Gal. 5:16-23).


The examination of the Christians life before the "Bimah seat of Christ" will reveal how "faithful", or how "unfaithful" the Christians walk was "in Christ." The "abundance" of rewards given, or the "lack" of rewards given will reveal openly before God, and to everyone present how faithful, or how unfaithful the Christian was in their service to Christ during their life on earth.


Listen carefully! God is the "only One" who can examine a Christian properly, honestly, and without discrimination. He alone is the only One who can judge our motives and actions, since He is the only One who can "look upon the heart of man." No one can participate in the "Bimah seat of Christ" unless they are a believer. Why? because the "Bimah" takes place immediately following the resurrection event and not prior to it, which means that "NO ONE" can participate in the resurrection based on their good works. Secondly, the "Bimah" takes place in heaven and NOT on the earth. Therefore you have to be saved in order to partake in the Bema seat of Christ, since it is the next event following the resurrection.


It is impossible for any believer in Christ to miss the resurrection program of God. If only part of the church was resurrected, then those who were left behind could never be examined by the Lord, since they missed the Bimah seat of Christ. The "only people" who will be left behind at the time of the resurrection will be those who have NOT trusted in Christ, which means then that they do not possess Christ who would have "Sealed them with the Holy Spirit" at the time they believed (Eph. 1:13, 4:30), but they failed to do so!


There is only "One" Bimah seat of Christ mentioned in scripture for the church (1Cor. 3:11-15; 2Cor. 5:10). This event takes place in heaven "one time" for ALL the church saints (from Pentecost to the close of the church age). The "Bimah" is never taught in scripture by the apostle Paul as ever being "repeated" again for the church. Therefore it cannot take place until "ALL" of the "church" is present. This means that the church age MUST END, and all the saints in Christ must be resurrected at ONE TIME, whether dead or alive, faithful or unfaithful. Not one can be left behind, since the judgment seat of Christ is the next event. Listen to what the apostle Paul has to say!

1Cor. 5:10 "For WE (collectively) must ALL (the whole body of Christ) appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that "each one"
(every individual believer in Christ) may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."


Who is Paul the apostle speaking to and addressing in this text above? Thatīs right! "the church." Paul is not just teaching the church saints at Corinth, but his letter to the Corinthians is also his instruction and teaching to the "Whole body of Christ. How do we know this? We know this by the fact that Paul says this himself in 1Cor. 1:2 "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who "have been" (past perfect tense) sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place (the whole body of Christ) call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours."


Question: Is there any further evidence in 1Cor. 5:10 that reveals that the "Judgment seat of Christ" is an event which includes the "whole body of Christ", and not only part of the body of Christ?

Answer: Yes! Paul says "For we must all appear before the "judgment seat of Christ......." Now look at this sentence! I want you to notice something very important and profound in this text that many have missed! Notice that the phrase "judgment seat of Christ" is in the "singular form" and NOT in the "plural form." What does this mean? It means this my friend! That the "Judgment seat of Christ" is only going to take place ONE TIME! and ONE TIME ONLY for the church. And the ONLY time that this event can possibly take place for the church saints in Christ, whether dead, or alive is at the time of His appearing, which is the the close of the church age/resurrection (1Thess. 4:13-18).


If Paul was teaching that the body of Christ was to experience "multiples" of the "judgment seat of Christ", then he would have written to the church the following: "For we must all appear before the "judgment SEATS (Plural) of Christ. Now Paul was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. If God had "judgment SEATS" (plural) in mind for the church, which would mean "more than one judgment seat", then the Holy Spirit would have inspired the apostle Paul to write this text in the "plural form" in stead of the "singular form." Paul didnīt make a mistake here, nor did the Holy Spirit make a mistake who was directing Paulīs teaching in his epistles which he wrote to the Church.

Secondly, Paul the apostle would have never used the terms "WE" in the "collective form", nor the term "ALL" in the "completed form" in reference to the body Christ if he was teaching that there would be "multiples" of the Bimah seat of Christ. Why? Because Paul used the term "Seat" in the singular form. The following is how Paul the apostle should have phrased this sentence if he had "Multiples" of the judgment seat of Christ in mind. "For "SOME OF US" must appear before the judgment SEATS of Christ....etc." Therefore just language itself "Contradicts" the teaching that some will miss the resurrection!


Question: How in the world can the "Bimah seat of Christ" take place for the church if their are members of the body of Christ missing due to having been denied their glorified bodies due to sin, which Christ was suppose to have already paid for in full at the cross? According to the "partial Rapture" people these saints will be left behind in order to be purged and purified for their sinful deeds during the tribulation period?

Answer It is impossible for any church saint to be left behind! Scripture has already made absolutely clear here that the "whole body of Christ" must all be present at the judgment seat of Christ to be examined by God for the deeds which were done in the body (2Cor. 5:10). But these people who teach you can "lose your salvation" and "miss the resurrection/Rapture" just wonīt accept the scriptures which are overwhelmingly clear! The whole problem with these people is this!


1. They have become their own "examiner and judge!" of their own deeds "apart" from Christ who is to examine them Himself at the "Bimah seat of Christ", and who is the only righteous judge" (2Tim 4:8).

2. They have become their own "Justifier" of their own lives by becoming "Judaizers" in their thinking (Gal. 2:16-21) by trying to put the church back "under the Law" in order to earn or merit their glorified body, and thus entry into heaven, which is only by "grace through faith in Christ alone" (Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:4-7).

3. Finally! They have become their Own Bimah seat of........."put your name here".........) because they alone are determining whether or not their deeds are "good enough" to get them a glorified body." By doing this they have "trampled" all over the righteousness of God through Christ (Rom. 3:22, 8:10; 2Cor. 5:21) which they supposedly are suppose to possess. And they have disregarded as "insufficient" Godīs righteousness which every believer possesses through Christ!

1 Peter 2:24 "And He Himself bore "OUR SINS" in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness..........etc."


You can see here how the "partial Rapture theory" is totally destroyed by the teaching of the "Bimah seat of Christ" alone by the apostle Paul. This means that the Church CANNOT be partially resurrected at the time of Christīs appearing, and then the other part of church go into the tribulation period. What I have just shown here is just another important clue which shows that there will NOT be one church saint in Christ left behind at the time of the resurrection. Paul used "We, all, each one, " along with the "singular form" of "Seat", and NOT the plural form "Seats." It is totally impossible scripturally, and theologically for any church saint to be left behind. The "Bimah seat of Christ" is a one time event, which is seen in Revelation 4:10 as having already taken place.


Rev. 4:10 says: "The twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne......etc." As you can see in this text. The Bimah seat of Christ has already taken place, which is seen by the fact that the church saints are "Casting their crowns" before the feet of Jesus." This term "Crowns" here in Revelation 4:10 is the Greek word "Stephanos" which means "Victorīs Crowns." These are the crowns that the church saints won during the church age, and which were given at the time of the "Judgment seat of Christ."

I want to share with you some things from the book "Things To Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost. He has a whole section on this topic of the "Twenty-four elders." I will share just a little with you below.

(quote page 255 / 256). "The number "Twenty-four", which represents the entire priesthood (1Chron. 24:1-4, 19), as it was divided for purposes of representation by David, suggests that this the church. While Israel was called to a priestly function (Ex. 19:6), that nation never entered into this chief function because of their sin.

To the tribulation saints the promise is given in that they shall minister as priests in the millennium (Rev. 20:6). However, at the beginning of the tribulation period Israel "has not" been restored to the place of a priestly nation, for they must await the millennial age for the realization of that privilege.

The tribulation saints, likewise, must wait until the millennial age for their realization of it. The church is the "only" body definitely constituted a priesthood that could fulfill the function of priests ministering under the High Priest (1Peter 2:5, 9).

(quote page 256 / 257). "The "Crowns" suggest that they represent the church. These Twenty-four are "not" wearing monarchīs crowns (diadema ), but "Victorīs crowns" (Greek - Stephanos), which had been won in a conflict (Eph. 6:10-17; 1Tim. 1:18, 6:12; 2Tim. 4:7 scripture my emphasis). They therefore have been both resurrected, for a "spirit" would not be wearing a crown, and then judged, for "they could not receive a crown as a reward" apart from judgment. Further, the judgment must have only recently taken place, for they are seen in the "act" of casting their crowns at Christīs feet (Rev. 4:10). (End quote).


Therefore "not one believer" in Christ can be left behind at the time of the resurrection (1Thess. 4:14-18). Otherwise the body of Christ would be "dismembered and incomplete", which would defeat Godīs purpose for sending Christ in the first place at the time of the resurrection event! There is no other prophetic time slot in-which the "Bimah seat of Christ" can take place, except at the "close" of the Church age!


Christīs "message to the seven churches" comes to a conclusion in Revelation 3:22. Then the opening of Revelation chapter 4:1 it says;" After these things."

Question: After what things? What is being shown here is the "close of the church age" by the simple fact that there is no more letters to the churches. John the apostle says "After these things I looked", and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here", and I will show you what must take place After these things."

This phrase "After these things" is repeated twice in Rev. 4:1. This is important because it shows the "unfolding" of events in chronological order. The apostle John goes on to describe what he sees. In Rev. 4:4 he sees "24 thrones; and upon the thrones he saw 24 elders. In Rev. 4:10 John sees the 24 elders falling down before Christ worshiping Him, and casting their crowns (Stephanos "Victorīs crown) before the throne.

Paul the apostle teaches in the New Testament epistles that the church saints will have opportunities to win crowns while serving Christ during their life on earth. We will not be discussing these crowns since this is not the thrust of this article. The only important thing here to see is that the church saints are already in heaven in Rev. 4:1, and they are casting their "crowns"
(Greek -Stephanos / Victorīs crown / Rewards) at the feet of Jesus who is sitting on the throne.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
We have seen throughout this study over and over again that the Raputure is the resurrection, and the resurrection is the Rapture. They are "one and the same event." We have seen from scripture that there is only one group "spiritually identified" in 1Thess. 4;13-18 who will be participating in this resurrection event. This group is called "The Body of Christ." There is just "One" body of Christ and it is the Holy Spiritīs job at the moment of every believers conversion Christ to "Seal the believer" (Eph. 1:13, 4:30), and baptize the believer with the Holy Spirit who places them "into" the body of Christ "For by one Spirit we were ALL baptized into one body" (1Cor. 12:13).


No one can be called a "carnal Christian" unless they are "a Christian." Likewise the same can be said of the "faithful Christian." Yes Christians can walk in the flesh (Gal. 5:16-23) and can live carnal lives, but they will suffer the loss of rewards at the "Bimah seat of Christ ( 2Cor. 5:8-10). The only rewards a believer will lose will be the ones they "could have won" while they were busy walking in the power of the flesh! This goes for the "faithful believer" as well as the "unfaithful believer."


The Carnal Christian will obviously have less rewards due to the lack of faithfulness to the Lord. There is no question about that! But the lack of their faithfulness doesnīt "exempt" nor "invalidate" what little amount of rewards they might have won. Listen people! God doesnīt take any rewards away from any of us, "WE DO!" All God does is places the believers works on the altar and tests it "with fire" in order to see if a reward can be given. Do you know what this means? What this means folks is this! That it is solely up to every individual believer to decide how they want to live! Waste your precious time here on earth by walking in the flesh as a Christian! And watch the majority of your Christian life go up in smoke at the Bimah seat of Christ. Use your time wisely for faithful service to the Lord. Then you will have many rewards. The choice is up to each one of us!


Therefore those works of the flesh will be burned up at the Bimah seat of Christ "but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire (1Cor. 3:11-15). The only reason why any believer could stand in the presence of God at the time of the "judgment seat of Christ" is because they were found "righteous" by the righteousness of God through Christ. The apostle Paul says "We all" must appear before the Bimah seat of Christ" (2Cor. 5:10). Every Christian has deeds that were done in the power of their flesh which will not stand the test of "fire", whether they were carnal in their walk, or whether they were faithful in their walk with Christ.

Every believer has the power of the Holy Spirit to walk in obedience to Christ each moment of every day. But the truth of the fact is this. That there is no Christian, at no time whatsoever during the church age, who has walked 100% of the time in their Christian life by the power of the Holy Spirit. All of us have deeds which we have done in the power of the flesh, which will be burned up at the judment seat of Christ. The question however for each one of us "in Christ", whether carnal or faithful is this! "How many rewards will each one of us have to cast at the feet of Jesus (Rev. 4:10) after the "Bimah seat of Christ" is finished!

Pretty sobering isnīt it!

I donīt need to share alot here at this point because I think that the scriptures have made it emphatically clear that each and every believer in Christ is NOT under Law, but under GRACE! Listens folks! God has given us "His very best." Jesus is "all you need" in order to qualify for the resurrection. Whether the believer is already dead in Christ, or whether they are alive at the time of His appearing. There is only going to be "ONE BIMAH SEAT OF CHRIST." And if you are "in Christ" by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ unto salvation (Eph. 2:8-10). Then you are "Sealed with the Holy Spirit" for the day of Redemption," (Eph. 1:13, 4:30).


"For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." (Heb. 4:12)

Trust the word of God "ONCE AND FOR ALL", which has been presented in this article. And let Jesus set you free from all your guilt of sin and self condemnation. "For in Him (Jesus Christ) you have been made complete......etc." (Colossians 2:9)


God bless you all!
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
pssst...hey, iīll let you in on a coupla secrets

1) everything that your church teaches you that isnīt just plain common sense = a lie

2) posters who randomly use capital letters = usually damn near retarded
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
I recommend all who are interested to cut and pasting this document into your word folder and prayerfully studying it under the direction of the Holy Spirit
ashesand sackcloth
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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ac
12/08/2005 10:09 AM
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Re: HERE IS PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE TEACHING AS TAUGHT BY OUR CHURCHES IS A LIE!
I never ONCE said you can lose your salvation for that is impossible according to scripture.
What I did infer was those who THOUGHT they did have it...but only decieved themselves.

They were of us...but they went OUT from us...so really they were NOT really of us in the first place...you get the drift here?

Many will say on that day "LORD LORD WE DID THIS AND THAT IN YOUR NAME.
What supposedly wonderful christians we have here....they cast out demons and did many miracles...to all the world they would have been so impressive...much like these pretenders in the pulpit today.

But Jesus said to them....I NEVER KNEW YOU!!!
DEAPART from me you workers of iniquity into the everlasting fire...and so on.

Just because someone says a prayer and does wonderful things...MEANS NOTHING.

Only THOSE who DO THE WILL of my father will inherit eternal life.
ī
Are the laodicean christians of today doing the will of GOD!!!??? NOOOOOOO

They sit in their comfy seats with their sunday roast sitting in the oven at home waiting to fatten them even more while listening to some wolf in sheeps clothing telling them they will NEVER have to suffer or lift a finger for God...and that they should fork over their money to the church...and NOT the poor as per our Lords command.

They attend endless retreats learning about this and that but NEVER once putting it into effect. They are mere hearers of the word and NOT doers.
They are fat and lazy and blind and naked and God will spew them out of His mouth...and I dont blame Him because they make me sick too.
They delude themselves into easy beleivism....all is well and im saved and I can just sit back now and get fatter and lazier and God will save my ass in the rapture....WHAT A JOKE. They will burn and be left outside the Holy city where the hyppocrites are...and all liars....like the wolves in the pulpits of today.

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