Plato

The whole Platonic teaching is based upon the concept of Absolute Goodness. Plato was vividly conscious of the immense profundity of the subject. "To discover the Creator and Father of this universe, as well as his operation, is indeed difficult; and when discovered it is impossible to reveal him." In him Truth, Justice and the Beautiful are eternally one. Hence the idea of the Good is the highest branch of study.
[link to www.theosociety.org]

sometimes the greatest theories come from combining two great ideas.
Ive been thinking of superstring theory and the big bang.
the universe starts with a 1 d line...then the line splodes.

I am of the persuasion that the Big Bang never happened.

why? didnt science prove ( I dunno just speculating) that all matter came from one source?

Alexander Wilder - Theosophy – July 1897

There is a criterion by which to know the truth, and Plato sought it out. The perceptions of sense fail utterly to furnish it. The law of right for example, is not the law of the strongest, but what is always expedient for the strongest. The criterion is therefore no less than the conceptions innate in every human soul. These relate to that which is true, because it is ever-abiding. What is true is always right — right and therefore supreme: eternal and therefore always good. In its inmost essence it is Being itself; in its form by which we are able to contemplate it, it is justice and virtue in the concepts of essence, power and energy.

These concepts are in every human soul and determine all forms of our thought. We encounter them in our most common experiences and recognize them as universal principles, infinite and absolute. However latent and dormant they may seem, they are ready to be aroused, and they enable us to distinguish spontaneously the wrong from the right. They are memories, we are assured, that belong to our inmost being, and to the eternal world. They accompanied the soul into this region of time, of ever-becoming and of sense. The soul, therefore, or rather its inmost spirit or intellect, is of and from eternity. It is not so much an inhabitant of the world of nature as a sojourner from the eternal region. Its trend and ulterior destination are accordingly toward the beginning from which it originally set out.

im more of an einstein/planck/michio kaku man myself. Plato is a bit too far back in time for my liking.

The Big Bang theory arose from red-shift. Basically, this states that everything is moving away from everything else (galaxies). Therefore, you are correct, that would mean everything 'started' at one place.

But, red-shift can be influenced by electrical surges between two or more celestial bodies. Thus, trying to prove the Big Bang really happened, is impossible using red-shift as the foundation of the theory. Academia won't tell you that, though.

Plato's Cave has always been intriguing to me.

I must ask since you are studying the man.

Do you have any intention of researching his works Timaeus and Critias or his ancestor Solon?

If galaxies are moving away from each other it kind of resembles the whole "breath of God" thing I have read about. I think it was mentioned as "brahma" in other cultures.

Yes, but again, that is based on the universe having a death and birth over and over again...ie, these concepts arose from the Big Bang theory. IMO, the universe is eternal, and infinite.

Theory of Forms
Main article: Theory of Forms

The Theory of Forms (Greek) typically refers to the belief expressed by Socrates in some of Plato's dialogues, that the material world as it seems to us is not the real world, but only an image or copy of the real world. Socrates spoke of forms in formulating a solution to the problem of universals. The forms, according to Socrates, are roughly speaking archetypes or abstract representations of the many types of things, and properties we feel and see around us, that can only be perceived by reason (Greek:); (that is, they are universals). In other words, Socrates sometimes seems to recognise two worlds: the apparent world, which constantly changes, and an unchanging and unseen world of forms, which may be a cause of what is apparent.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Plato also believed the whole world should be gay.

The linchpin of Platonism is the theory of forms, a doctrine which receives surprisingly scant treatment in the dialogues but which nevertheless undergirds Plato's approach to ethics and metaphysics, aesthetics and epistemology.
[link to www.philosophicalsociety.com]

:noblac:

This vision of forms permeating reality ties in directly with what folks on here express as the 2D. It also relates directly to the concepts of structure and function.

In martial arts, forms are premeditated sets of movements that have symbology in shape of the patterned steps as well as in the functional movements that lead around the pattern/form.

Last Edited by just a dude on 05/13/2011 05:36 PM

Yes, the Plato's Theory of Forms is exactly what I am looking for.

ok well it already came to a point a few years ago that i realy have to puke from it while sober and well.

realy and that out of hand stuff you will get back.

Plato is put forward at the university because he was one of the nwo kabalists.

[link to www.thedyinggod.com]

In the Vedas, it is said that the Material World is dominated by Maya, which means Illusion. The purpose of this illusion is to bewilder us into forgetfulness of God.




In the Vedas, the Absolute Truth is the understanding of the origin of everything. The origin of everything is God, and God is full of Eternity, Knowledge, and Bliss.





This is a great position to arrive at. This is true. The Original Position of the individual soul is that of a PART and PARCEL of God. Not a complete whole. Being a PART and PARCEL of God, we are QUALITATIVELY equal with god, being composed of Eternity, Knowledge, and Bliss. But we are not FULL in these quailities the way the SUPREME is, who is within every atom AND between every atom. We are only minute and individual.

Thank you SavetheOceans. You stated it perfectly.

Thank you, this is not just my conclusion.



This is the conclusion of many Acharyas in the line of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who have dedicated their life to love of God, and the SCIENCE of God Consciousness.

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 05/13/2011 10:16 PM

[link to video.godlikeproductions.com]


[link to video.godlikeproductions.com]

Here is a excerpt from Srila Prabhupadas book "Beyond Illusion & Doubt" from the section titled "Plato"

<<<<>>>>

Plato (428?–347 BC) was one of the most creative and influential thinkers in Western philosophy. The chief student of Socrates, he founded the Academy in Athens in 387 BC, beginning an institution that continued for almost a thousand years and came to be known as the first European university. There are some striking similarities between Plato’s ideal state and the one Krishna outlines in the Bhagavad-gita. But, as Srila Prabhupada points out, Plato erred in his conception of the soul and of the goal of education.

Disciple: In the Republic, Plato’s major work on political theory, Plato wrote that society can enjoy prosperity and harmony only if it places people in working categories or classes according to their natural abilities. He thought people should find out their natural abilities and use those abilities to their fullest capacity—as administrators, as military men, or as craftsmen. Most important, the head of state should not be an average or mediocre man. Instead, society should be led by a very wise and good man—a “philosopher king”—or a group of very wise and good men.

Srila Prabhupada: This idea appears to be taken from the Bhagavad-gita, where Krishna says that the ideal society has four divisions: brahmanas (Intellectual), kshatriyas (Administrative, Protective), vaishya (Production, Industry), and sudras (Laborers). These divisions come about by the influence of the modes of nature. Everyone, both in human society and in animal society, is influenced by the modes of material nature [sattva-guna (Goodness), rajo-guna (Passion), and tamo-guna (Ignorance). By scientifically classifying men according to these qualities, society can become perfect. But if we place a man in the mode of ignorance in a philosopher’s post, or put a philosopher to work as an ordinary laborer, havoc will result.

In the Bhagavad-gita Krishna says that the brahmanas (Intellectual)—the most intelligent men, who are interested in transcendental knowledge and philosophy—should be given the topmost posts, and under their instructions the kshatriyas (Administrative, Protective) should work. The administrators should see that there is law and order and that everyone is doing his duty. The next section is the productive class, the vaishya (Production, Industry), who engage in agriculture and cow protection. And finally there are the sudras (Laborers), common laborers who help the other sections. This is Vedic civilization—people living simply, on agriculture and cow protection. If you have enough milk, grain, fruits, and vegetables, you can live very nicely.

The Srimad-Bhagavatam compares the four divisions of society to the different parts of the body—the head, the arms, the belly, and the legs. Just as all parts of the body cooperate to keep the body fit, in the ideal state all sections of society cooperate under the leadership of the brahmanas (Intellectual). Comparatively, the head is the most important part of the body, since it gives directions to the other parts. Similarly, the ideal state functions under the directions of the brahmanas (Intellectual), who are not personally interested in political affairs or administration because they have a higher duty. At present this Krishna consciousness movement is training brahmanas (Intellectual). If the administrators take our advice and conduct the state in a Krishna conscious way, there will be an ideal society throughout the world.

Disciple: How does modern society differ from the Vedic ideal?

Srila Prabhupada: Now there is large-scale industrialization, which means exploitation of one person by another. Such industry was unknown in Vedic civilization—it was unnecessary. In addition, modern civilization has taken to slaughtering and eating animals, which is barbarous. It is not even human.

[...]It is Plato’s view that the government should be ideal, and this is the ideal: The saintly philosophers should be at the head of the state; according to their advice the politicians should rule; under the protection of the politicians, the productive class should protect the cows and provide the necessities of life; and the laborer class should help. This is the scientific division of society that Krishna advocates in the Bhagavad-gita [4.13]: catur-varnyam maya srishtam guna-karma-vibhagasah tasya kartaram api mam viddhy akartaram avyayam. “According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me.”



Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 05/14/2011 10:55 AM

Plato's account of how God created the universe is a metaphor that contains a hidden mathematical principle whose nature has recently been revealed. In his cosmological treatise Timaeus, he used the mathematics of the Pythagorean musical scale as the basis of the mathematical harmony of the universe. What scholars have not realized is that this mathematical account is incomplete. His so-called "Lambda" has been shown to be but two edges of a tetrahedral array of 20 integers. What has now been proved is that this archetypal pattern is the arithmetic version of the sacred geometry of the Tree of Life, regarded by Kabbalists as the cosmic blueprint. Its polyhedral version has also been discovered.

You can study these new discoveries at:
[link to smphillips.8m.com]
and elsewhere on this site, for example, Article 11:
[link to smphillips.8m.com]

The mathematical power in Plato's Lambda is astounding and eloquent evidence of the intelligence of God.

I'm with you there, SS, at least per the mainstream science explanation/definition of the Big Bang.

All the same, I do agree with infinitymindbox that the universe/reality began as one stable reality construct - perhaps even just a singular planet, alone - and then was "fractured," henceforth all the universal spiraling and defining fractals commonly excepted as evidence of Intelligent Design.

I think if what happened to such a stable reality construct were to be called a "Big Bang" it wouldn't be an explosion from a primordial soup state creating the universe, it'd be more like the original (intelligently designed) reality construct taking a hit, sustaining an injury, spiraling out of control for a bit, and then reorganizing as best able to per its original coding and function. It sought to fix and contain itself...

...if one takes a shattered mirror and pieces it back together, what's then going to be reflected back when the mirror is gazed into is a skewed and misshapen reflection. It will appear multidimensional, or to reflect dimensionality, BUT it is not in its original form and is a convoluted reflection.

The original reality construct? An illusion, yes. One purposefully created to experience a particular type of unique design...materiality/organics. There was choice to enter and exit such a reality construct.

What we have now? A convoluted illusion...messy, messy, messy, in comparison to the original form.

But, lol, I don't think this has much to do with Plato, so I'm going to stop.

I just get all prompted by excitement when I see someone else thinking along the same lines as do I, even if based on different conceptual origins and critical thinking...I wouldn't even reference the word dimension when referring to the originally created environment. There's just no such thing as a "dimension" therein. We only know to think of dimensions because it's a reflection of the convoluted illusion.

All same, infinitymindbox--





I think you're onto something there.


(Lol, my roommate and I have sat here for over an hour debating the above thoughts...)

Thank you...I'll check them out.

no please there is no transation.

LOL I have NO IDEA what you are talking about!!!

raah muhahaha

no sure you do not.

anything else on your mind while having nothing to do like a homeless and jobless person on a planet ?