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Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance

 
AstronutModerator
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Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
On May 20th (Friday), C/2010 X1 (Elenin) passed within 0.002 AUs of an asteroid in the asteroid belt known as 1999 RQ176 (asteroid number 74732). The name designates when it was found and in what order. This asteroid is several magnitudes dimmer than Elenin itself. In order to determine if it was still where it should be after the encounter, I purchased telescope time from a civilian telescope in the Canary Islands.

As expected, it's faint as hell, and this was with a telescope as large as GLP's new main scope (different optical design though). First, here's the image of 1999 RQ176. Elenin's clearly visible on the right end of the image as well.
[link to flickr.com]
The purple sheen is just due to white balance issues. Asteroid 1999 RQ176 is just barely visible. This is actually a stack of 4 exposures from the telescope, the first exposure ending at 22:34:31 GMT May 21st.

Elenin's position was predicted to be 10h 27m 32.27s, +08d 09' 03.5". According to astrometry, it was detected at 10h 27m 32s, +08d 09' 04", well within the 2.15 arcsecond per pixel resolution of the image.

Asteroid 1999 RQ176 was predicted to be at 10h 28m 35.60s, +08d 05' 23.1". According to the same astrometry, it was actually detected at 10h 28m 36s, +08d 05' 23", again right on the money and within the resolution of the image.

Elenin failed to detectably perturb this little asteroid at all despite encountering it at a very close distance of 0.002 AUs and even pelting it with its tail as it passed between the asteroid and sun during that close approach. Here's a simulation showing the encounter:
[link to i319.photobucket.com]
I hope this sets some of your minds at ease. I'm well aware that some, perhaps many here, will choose to believe Elenin is an imminent threat to earth no matter what, but if you're willing to look you'll see it's really just a harmless minor comet.
astrobanner2
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05/21/2011 11:25 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Sure it is. Nothing to see here, move along, just a coincidence.
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2011 11:29 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Thank you! Hey astro should we be able to see the moon tonight?
AstronutModerator (OP)
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05/21/2011 11:33 PM

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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Thank you! Hey astro should we be able to see the moon tonight?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1394728


Waning gibbous, it should rise quite late tonight though, generally around midnight or later depending on your location (I'm assuming continental US). With that I'll be turning in for the night; got a space station and space shuttle to catch in the early morning.

Last Edited by The Gentle Astromut on 05/21/2011 11:34 PM
astrobanner2
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Elenin failed to detectably perturb this little asteroid at all despite encountering it at a very close distance of 0.002 AUs and even pelting it with its tail as it passed between the asteroid and sun during that close approach.
 Quoting:


As would be expected of two cosmic lightweights, even in close proximity.

bump For common sense, science & sanity.
ShillsRUs

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05/21/2011 11:35 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
nice post Astronut. keep bringing the "real" to the masses.
^Watcher^

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05/21/2011 11:36 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
As promised....I apologize! :)
daisy
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
As promised....I apologize! :)
daisy
 Quoting: ^Watcher^


Apology accepted. And with that I'm calling it a night (I mean it this time! lol)
astrobanner2
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05/21/2011 11:38 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Gee a bad day for GLP. No Rapture and Elenin is squat.
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2011 11:38 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Thank you! Hey astro should we be able to see the moon tonight?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1394728


Waning gibbous, it should rise quite late tonight though, generally around midnight or later depending on your location (I'm assuming continental US). With that I'll be turning in for the night; got a space station and space shuttle to catch in the early morning.
 Quoting: Astronut


Thank you
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2011 11:45 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
I am still puzzled that such a minor body (ie all comets) have enough mass to produce a tail like that.
Just doesn't make sense.
I would imagine that it is the comet itself that affects the solar particles enough to create the tail. Thoughts anyone?
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2011 11:47 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
there still will be rabid fanatics that wail about a scientist

that said its causing eqs on earth, or someone that has

absolute "proof" that elenin is huge.

lets hope that the failed rapture and this discovery helps

paint a clearer picture of who the sheep really are....

ie. followers of harold camping, dutchsinse, astral patriot

and terral, just to name a few..sheep
Anonymous Coward
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05/21/2011 11:50 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
there still will be rabid fanatics that wail about a scientist

that said its causing eqs on earth, or someone that has

absolute "proof" that elenin is huge.

lets hope that the failed rapture and this discovery helps

paint a clearer picture of who the sheep really are....

ie. followers of harold camping, dutchsinse, astral patriot

and terral, just to name a few..sheep
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1394756


You must be insane to post on this site then.

Read the fucking header.

dumbass
Khim

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05/21/2011 11:50 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Excellent work, Astro! I hope this "Close Encounter" will help calm folks a bit.

Thank you SO much for the awesome picture of Elenin. I'm beginning to think she might be even less than 3km. I know the discoverer estimated the nucleus to be between 3-4km in diameter, but I think it might actually be smaller than 3.

Great picture! Thanks again!
Geophysical Events

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05/21/2011 11:58 PM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
clappa

PIN this thread. I admire facts from real observation! It can bring us closer to the truth.

Now I have two more questions left

1. The asteroid is very dim. The sky is full of objects with 19 apparent magnitude everywhere. Can you double check it's RQ176? For example, taking two shots at different time to show RQ176 is actually moving and not a remote star. Once we have such photos, we can settle the dispute over Elenin's mass once and for all.

2. How Elenin causes M8+ earthquakes still remains a mystery.

I want to say again, it's hardly a coincidence. Elenin happens to have very small inclination 1.839°, so it can form a straight line between planets and the Sun.

M8+ earthquakes are very rare, but there were M8.1, M8.8, and M9.0 in the past four Elenin's alignments. There are only thirty M8+ mega earthquakes since 1975 (35 years), all of the last three M8+ earthquakes happened in Elenin's alignment! Only eleven M8.6+ mega earthquakes in the past 100 years, two happened with Elenin's alignment . The probability of random events is almost 0. We still need an explanation!!!

USGS database search:
[link to earthquake.usgs.gov]

PDE 1975 05 26 091151.50 36.00 -17.65 33 8.1 UKPAS 6D. .T.....
PDE 1976 01 14 164733.50 -28.43 -177.66 33 8.2 UKBRK .D. .T.....
PDE 1977 04 21 042409.60 -9.97 160.73 33 8.1 UKPAS 7C. .T.....
PDE 1977 08 19 060855.20 -11.09 118.46 33 8.0 UKPAS .C. .T.....
PDE 1980 07 17 194223.20 -12.52 165.92 33 8.0 UKBRK .F. .T.....
PDE 1985 09 19 131747.35 18.19 -102.53 27 8.0 MwHRV 9CM .TS...M
PDE 1986 05 07 224710.87 51.52 -174.78 33 8.0 MwHRV 6DM .T.....
PDE 1986 10 20 064609.98 -28.12 -176.37 29 8.3 MSBRK .FM .T.....
PDE 1989 05 23 105446.32 -52.34 160.57 10 8.2 MsGS 5FM .T.....
PDE 1994 06 09 003316.23 -13.84 -67.55 631 8.2 MwGS .CM ......S
PDE 1994 10 04 132255.84 43.77 147.32 14 8.3 MwHRV 9CM .T....S
PDE 1995 07 30 051123.63 -23.34 -70.29 45 8.0 MwGS 7CM .T....S
PDE 1995 10 09 153553.91 19.06 -104.21 33 8.0 MwHRV .CM ST....S
PDE 1996 02 17 055930.55 -0.89 136.95 33 8.2 MwHRV .CM .T.....
PDE 1998 03 25 031225.07 -62.88 149.53 10 8.1 MwHRV ..M .......
PDE 2000 11 16 045456.74 -3.98 152.17 33 8.0 MwHRV .CM STS...S
PDE 2001 06 23 203314.13 -16.26 -73.64 33 8.4 MwHRV 8CM .T....S
PDE 2003 09 25 195006.36 41.81 143.91 27 8.3 MwHRV 8CM .T....S
PDE 2004 12 23 145904.41 -49.31 161.35 10 8.1 MwHRV .FM .T.....
PDE 2004 12 26 005853.45 3.30 95.98 30 9.1 Mw01100 9CM STS...M
PDE 2005 03 28 160936.53 2.09 97.11 30 8.6 MwHRV 8CM 3TS....
PDE 2006 05 03 152640.29 -20.19 -174.12 55 8.0 MwHRV 7CM .T.....
PDE 2006 11 15 111413.57 46.59 153.27 10 8.3 MwGCMT 4CM .T.....
PDE 2007 01 13 042321.16 46.24 154.52 10 8.1 MwGCMT 6FM .T.....
PDE 2007 04 01 203958.71 -8.47 157.04 24 8.1 MwGCMT .CM UT....S
PDE 2007 08 15 234057.89 -13.39 -76.60 39 8.0 MwGCMT 9CM .T....M
PDE 2007 09 12 111026.83 -4.44 101.37 34 8.5 MwGCMT 6CM .TS....
PDE 2009 09 29 174810.99 -15.49 -172.10 18 8.1 MwGCMT 6CM .T.....
PDE-W 2010 02 27 063411.53 -36.12 -72.90 22 8.8 MwUCMT 9CM UTS....
PDE-Q 2011 03 11 054624.12 38.30 142.37 29 9.0 MwUCMT XCM STS...M


If Elenin has tiny mass, I can only think of some possibilities

[Hypothesis A] TPTB HAARP/X37-B it whenever it forms an alignment. Elenin is a psyop

How to verify it:
Understand the mechanism of HAARP in full and find relevant measurements to detect it.

[Hypothesis B] Elenin is static charged like Comet NEAT (2002-2003) (a strongly charged comet seems not rare in space):

[link to www.thunderbolts.info]


A typical comet may weight 10^14 kg, Sun is weighted 2 * 10^30 kg, a comet is 0.0000000000000001 Sun Mass, it's like a bee flying over a mountain. How can a comet influence Sun? But the truth is "Yes it can". Check the web link above. You can see it clearly. NASA explained to the public that it's coincidence


COMETNEAT
YouTube Video: [link to www.youtube.com]

Pity that Comet NEAT has 81.7° of inclination (it can never form a line between Earth and Sun), so we cannot use it as a reference.

Coulomb's force is multiple magnitude stronger than gravitational force, so a tiny object can possibly exert strong Coulomb's force on Sun. Comet NEAT is very tiny compared to the Sun, but it caused a giant CME.

In this case, Elenin can influence Sun (composed of plasma), but cannot influence a asteroid (composed of rock)

This can possibly explain the earthquakes caused by Elenin's alignment

"Perhaps the observation of Nobel Laureate Hannes Alfvén, the father of plasma cosmology, can put the issue in context. It was his opinion that coronal mass ejections are caused by a breakdown or breach of the Sun’s double layer—an event that provokes an explosive exchange between the insulated plasma cell of the Sun and the plasma of surrounding space."


How to verify this theory:
a. Observe the Sun. The plasma composition on Sun's surface may be influenced.
b. The attraction from Sun to Elenin may induce small changes to Elenin's orbit. (to be calculated later)
c. There will be a Magnetic Field from Elenin near Earth in late Sep and early Oct. (but it's already too late to find out)

What it implies if it's true:
the influence by Elenin on Sun in late September will be (3.1/0.6)^2 ~= 26.7 times of Mar 11, 2011

[Hypothesis C] Elenin has strong magnetic field

How to verify it: I don't know

[Hypothesis D] Just a BIG coincidence! As you can see the M8+ listed in the past 35 years, the probability is very low.

Last Edited by Geophysical Events on 05/22/2011 06:10 AM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
The Red One Comes
STYLIE

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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
hmm
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2011 12:24 AM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
On May 20th (Friday), C/2010 X1 (Elenin) passed within 0.002 AUs of an asteroid in the asteroid belt known as 1999 RQ176 (asteroid number 74732). The name designates when it was found and in what order. This asteroid is several magnitudes dimmer than Elenin itself. In order to determine if it was still where it should be after the encounter, I purchased telescope time from a civilian telescope in the Canary Islands.

As expected, it's faint as hell, and this was with a telescope as large as GLP's new main scope (different optical design though). First, here's the image of 1999 RQ176. Elenin's clearly visible on the right end of the image as well.
[link to flickr.com]
The purple sheen is just due to white balance issues. Asteroid 1999 RQ176 is just barely visible. This is actually a stack of 4 exposures from the telescope, the first exposure ending at 22:34:31 GMT May 21st.

Elenin's position was predicted to be 10h 27m 32.27s, +08d 09' 03.5". According to astrometry, it was detected at 10h 27m 32s, +08d 09' 04", well within the 2.15 arcsecond per pixel resolution of the image.

Asteroid 1999 RQ176 was predicted to be at 10h 28m 35.60s, +08d 05' 23.1". According to the same astrometry, it was actually detected at 10h 28m 36s, +08d 05' 23", again right on the money and within the resolution of the image.

Elenin failed to detectably perturb this little asteroid at all despite encountering it at a very close distance of 0.002 AUs and even pelting it with its tail as it passed between the asteroid and sun during that close approach. Here's a simulation showing the encounter:
[link to i319.photobucket.com]
I hope this sets some of your minds at ease. I'm well aware that some, perhaps many here, will choose to believe Elenin is an imminent threat to earth no matter what, but if you're willing to look you'll see it's really just a harmless minor comet.
 Quoting: Astronut


That must have been some fast moving asteroid huh?
Just kidding! Good shot Astro!
tomasgod1

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05/22/2011 12:24 AM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Thanks for the update Astro; and thanks for sharing your photography of the objects with us as well.
_______

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[link to mysolaralerts.blogspot.com]

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Anonymous Coward
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
On May 20th (Friday), C/2010 X1 (Elenin) passed within 0.002 AUs of an asteroid in the asteroid belt known as 1999 RQ176 (asteroid number 74732). The name designates when it was found and in what order. This asteroid is several magnitudes dimmer than Elenin itself. In order to determine if it was still where it should be after the encounter, I purchased telescope time from a civilian telescope in the Canary Islands.

As expected, it's faint as hell, and this was with a telescope as large as GLP's new main scope (different optical design though). First, here's the image of 1999 RQ176. Elenin's clearly visible on the right end of the image as well.
[link to flickr.com]
The purple sheen is just due to white balance issues. Asteroid 1999 RQ176 is just barely visible. This is actually a stack of 4 exposures from the telescope, the first exposure ending at 22:34:31 GMT May 21st.

Elenin's position was predicted to be 10h 27m 32.27s, +08d 09' 03.5". According to astrometry, it was detected at 10h 27m 32s, +08d 09' 04", well within the 2.15 arcsecond per pixel resolution of the image.

Asteroid 1999 RQ176 was predicted to be at 10h 28m 35.60s, +08d 05' 23.1". According to the same astrometry, it was actually detected at 10h 28m 36s, +08d 05' 23", again right on the money and within the resolution of the image.

Elenin failed to detectably perturb this little asteroid at all despite encountering it at a very close distance of 0.002 AUs and even pelting it with its tail as it passed between the asteroid and sun during that close approach. Here's a simulation showing the encounter:
[link to i319.photobucket.com]
I hope this sets some of your minds at ease. I'm well aware that some, perhaps many here, will choose to believe Elenin is an imminent threat to earth no matter what, but if you're willing to look you'll see it's really just a harmless minor comet.
 Quoting: Astronut


I've asked in this forum for ANY evidence that Elenin is "huge", posing a threat to earth and got none. Elenin is nothing, just like Y2K was nothing, just like Nibiru is non-existent and just like 2012 will be nothing. I happen to KNOW that many accounts of the paranormal are true from first-hand experience. These other offbeat ideas are different. While I can point to personal experience as support for my beliefs, no one can point to any such personal experience or research that proves things like Elenin or Nibiru are anything but imaginary dangers. If they could, I'd like to see it. Repeating inaccurate or misleading statements, articles, etc. doesn't count. I mean first hand -- surely there are amateur astronomers here who have done calculations that can withstand critical scrutiny? Otherwise, it's all BS. Or maybe it's just HAARP playing tricks on us. It seems to be responsible for everything else that doesn't make sense.
tomasgod1

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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
As promised....I apologize! :)
daisy
 Quoting: ^Watcher^


Obviously I missed something. What did you do Watcher? chuckle
_______

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"Give me Liberty, or give me Death!"
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Nice work Astro.... 5 stars for a balanced observation
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2011 01:02 AM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Thank you for the post!
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2011 01:18 AM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Good job Astro

goodnews

Its a pretty image of elenin and the asteroid congratulations.

All doom and gloom can wait ......... for now damned
AZ
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05/22/2011 01:20 AM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Here comes Astronut, just in time. Folks, look at the planet and make up your own mind.

shill
ShillsRUs

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05/22/2011 01:23 AM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Oh yeah....PIN THIS SHIZZZzzzzle!!!!!!
bump
ShillsRUs

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05/22/2011 01:25 AM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Here comes Astronut, just in time. Folks, look at the planet and make up your own mind.

shill
 Quoting: AZ 1273159


exactly. go look at it and then you will know it's just a small comet or keep deluding yourself and join the next EPIC "Heaven's Gate" FAIL.
RS
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05/22/2011 01:27 AM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Interesting.

But your post that Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at .002 AUs distance means "nothing" really.

Do you happen to know if that small asteriod is highly magnetic like the Earth is? The Earth is highly magnetic and iron is its most abundant metal.

Could it be that the small asteroid is just a common space rock with very little iron content like 94% of the other space rocks? I think so.

So... there is a 94% chance that the small asteroid would not be affected at all by Elenin if it is not iron based as only 6% of the space rocks are.

Elenin could still be affecting the Earth, even at this great distance. How is unknown. But it doesn't mean that it can't be affecting the Earth from that distance.

My scientific guess would be Optically Increased Magnetism, which I discovered many years ago. Magnetism can be increased optically, just as optics increases other things at the focal point.
AZ
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Here comes Astronut, just in time. Folks, look at the planet and make up your own mind.

shill
 Quoting: AZ 1273159


exactly. go look at it and then you will know it's just a small comet or keep deluding yourself and join the next EPIC "Heaven's Gate" FAIL.
 Quoting: ShillsRUs


So how would you explain the Earth changes over the last year or two?
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2011 01:29 AM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
wait so elenin really IS just a comet?

*sadface*
Anonymous Coward
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05/22/2011 01:31 AM
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Re: Elenin fails to perturb a small asteroid at 0.002 AUs distance
Astronut, you are really one of the only people bringing actual facts to this site. I appreciate every post you write. i feel like you teach me things. you're a very smart individual and i really dont see why ppl call you a shill. most likely they are the shills.


keep doin what you do dawg.


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