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Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.

 
SaveTheLivingEntities​

User ID: 1393742
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05/24/2011 03:36 PM

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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Here is a hint.

A tornado is not just warm air rising, and cool all falling.

They are CHARGED SHEATH VORTEX's.

[link to www.peter-thomson.co.uk]
"A sense of common interest can be fostered among individuals, if they know that they are inter-connected, are parts of one Organic System and are the sons and daughters of one Father. Here is the task of all religions; to teach people that all beings of the world are closely inter-related. Although steadfastness or firm belief in God (Nistha) according to some particular faith and eligibility of the individual is congenial for healthy spiritual growth of every individual, religious bigotry which begets enmity is condemnable, as it is against the real interest of the individual and society. Real religion teaches love for one another. Lord Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu propagated the cult of all-embracing Divine Love which brings universal brotherhood on a transcendental plane.

(Srila Bhakti Dayita Madhava Maharaja )


"If one loves Krishna, he must love Lord Jesus also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus he must love Krishna too. If he says, "Why shall I love Krishna? I shall love Jesus," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus? I shall love Krishna", then he has no knowledge either. If one understands Krishna, then he will understand Jesus. If one understands Jesus, you'll understand Krishna too"

(Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada - Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg, May 12, 1969 / Columbus - Ohio)

Transmigration Of The Soul. All you need to know about REINCARNATION

Thread: YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF ALL YOUR PAST LIVES ***Transmigration of the Soul: Proof of Re-Incarnation*** ( 11 part video documentary ) link for thread
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:38 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I think we take it from the top down. Shoot a air to air missile into the thunderhead and disrupt the system. It would have to be a strong missile or several missles detonated at once....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1329125


There are always nukes.

But then there might be radioactive tornadoes flinging fallout over large areas, and that would be incredibly bad.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


No...not nukes lets say a 1000 pounder or so might be enough to disrupt the airflow system in the thunderhead.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:39 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Sounds like this could be deployed and rolled out the back of a c-130. One some big ass parachutes, does its business and lands safely. Could probably load a dozen of these things in the back and kill all the big twisters.

ohyeah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1066161


I was actually just thinking about that, but then it comes to efficiency. You are going to have boil-off before the LN hits the storm, which means you will have to drop more than needed. And without precisely calibrating it, you might have to drop a lot more.

The reason i bring this up is pertains to the effect of dropping massive amounts of LN onto people and structures.

I am pretty sure the effect of blast freezing people is going to be worse than the tornado.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


Welp I was thinking some kind of heavy duty Styrofoam lined container that when it hits the debris area gets ripped to shreds. In effect cutting the upper part of the tornado from that below. Or perhaps releasing it in the upper regions and thus killing the driver of the tornado
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:39 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
The basic principle of what happens is it's moist warm air rising really fast in a spiral into cold dry air. Tornadoes don't blow, they suck air upwards and take all kinds of shit with it. Like entire towns at this point.
So let's say you were to have a very large tank of liquid nitrogen. Highly pressurized. Include some explosives and make that tank where it could be launched or remotely flown about 500 feet off the ground right in front of that thing and then detonate it. The air temperature at the bottom, where it's sucking all of that warmer air upwards, would drop to damn near nothing.
I've installed what they call "cold blast systems" in nightclubs. Usually just a 5 second blast of CO2 over the dance floor and the temperature drops 20 degrees instantly. It literally makes snow out of the existing moisture in the air on contact and it snows over the dance floor. It's really nice effect if you have never seen one in action.
That's what gave me this idea. Pressurized CO2 ain't nowhere near as cold as Nitrogen would be. So...BOOM! And you would be spitting a massive amount of ice cubes and cold air into it thus stopping the process.
Even if these things cost a million bucks to produce, it would be nowhere near the cost of the damage we're seeing now.
So tell me what's wrong with my logic here? That would have to work right?
 Quoting: XinTexas


You could give it a try! The supercell structure from which tornadoes form is really what you need to tackle. The vortex is stretched downwards and generated by very powerful convective processes - extreme low pressure is at the centre of the vortex. Cooling the storm 'mechanism' will require that millions of gallons of coolant are delivered in a very short time frame. It is more risky to deliver this than it would be running from the storm... try expressing your cooling model in terms of heat exchanges, over the distances the storm gathers its energy.
hf
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:40 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Here is a hint.

A tornado is not just warm air rising, and cool all falling.

They are CHARGED SHEATH VORTEX's.

[link to www.peter-thomson.co.uk]
 Quoting: SaveTheLivingEntities


Obongo must had attached a flux capacitor to a tornado sending him back to 2008
Hero Protagonist

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05/24/2011 03:41 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
The basic principle of what happens is it's moist warm air rising really fast in a spiral into cold dry air. Tornadoes don't blow, they suck air upwards and take all kinds of shit with it. Like entire towns at this point.
So let's say you were to have a very large tank of liquid nitrogen. Highly pressurized. Include some explosives and make that tank where it could be launched or remotely flown about 500 feet off the ground right in front of that thing and then detonate it. The air temperature at the bottom, where it's sucking all of that warmer air upwards, would drop to damn near nothing.
I've installed what they call "cold blast systems" in nightclubs. Usually just a 5 second blast of CO2 over the dance floor and the temperature drops 20 degrees instantly. It literally makes snow out of the existing moisture in the air on contact and it snows over the dance floor. It's really nice effect if you have never seen one in action.
That's what gave me this idea. Pressurized CO2 ain't nowhere near as cold as Nitrogen would be. So...BOOM! And you would be spitting a massive amount of ice cubes and cold air into it thus stopping the process.
Even if these things cost a million bucks to produce, it would be nowhere near the cost of the damage we're seeing now.
So tell me what's wrong with my logic here? That would have to work right?
 Quoting: XinTexas

That's it. I need new glasses, I thought the title was how to stop a TOMATO. Sorry, seems like a good idea to bomb them damn tornadoes, too, hell we even bomb the moon every now and then to "find water."
"Take a chance while you still got a choice" Bon Scott
Once I was nothing, then I became everything
XinTexas (OP)

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05/24/2011 03:42 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
From wikipedia: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

A typical thunderstorm has 10^15 juoles of energy. Google finds that a typical tornado has about 10,000 kW-hours, or about 36 billion joules. A kg of liquid nitrogen contains 97 watt-hours of energy (from [link to en.wikipedia.org]

Counteracting equivalently the energy of the tornado means you would need roughly 103,000 kg of liquid nitrogen. That assumes 1) 100% efficiency, 2) the tornado will not get any more energy from the thunderstorm, 3) other various factors.
 Quoting: t3h3nd15n34r


These statistics don't take into consideration the rapid expansion cooling that would happen if several thousand kilograms were released all at once. The stats you quote are potential energy in its liquid state. I'm talking tanker truck size all released at once.
Don't bother calling me a Neocon. I'm a card-carrying Libertarian.
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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:42 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Here is a hint.

A tornado is not just warm air rising, and cool all falling.

They are CHARGED SHEATH VORTEX's.

[link to www.peter-thomson.co.uk]
 Quoting: SaveTheLivingEntities


that might be the case, but the charge is a side effect, not the cause.

the flying debris essentially "rubbing" against itself inside the vortex creates a hell of a charge.

But the cause of the vortex is, as you said, warm air rising and cool air falling, and that would likely be the mechanism to exploit in order to defeat a tornado.

We would also need much better prediction capability.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:46 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I think we take it from the top down. Shoot a air to air missile into the thunderhead and disrupt the system. It would have to be a strong missile or several missles detonated at once....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1329125


There are always nukes.

But then there might be radioactive tornadoes flinging fallout over large areas, and that would be incredibly bad.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


No...not nukes lets say a 1000 pounder or so might be enough to disrupt the airflow system in the thunderhead.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1329125


Temporarily, perhaps, but you are talking a massive amount of energy in the falling air. I dont think a bomb is going to pack enough of a punch and still leave whatever is below relatively unscathed.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:46 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I'll bump ya!bump
Xibalbá be

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05/24/2011 03:47 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
In order to form, a tornado needs both a cold, rainy downdraft and a warm updraft. To stop a tornado from forming, just heat this cold downdraft until it's cold no longer.

OR you throw a shit load of superabsorbent polymers or SAP's in the tornado.

They absorb all the water and the water will start to heat up because of the friction between air and other absorbed polymers resulting in a heating of the updraft.

But probably the downdraft is a lot more influential in this scenario so indeed, heating the cold downdraft would be a much wiser choice.

HAARP should be able to do this.

Drop napalm in the downdraft and ignite it?

Shit, i don't know.
“The desire of power in excess caused the angels to fall; the desire of knowledge in excess caused man to fall.”
- Francis Bacon, Sr. quotes (English Lawyer and Philosopher. 1561-1626)

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Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:50 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
well i live in wichita, so whatever were going to do we better figure the shit out quick
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1389836


Hi me too hope we avoid the big one we have for so long.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:50 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
In order to form, a tornado needs both a cold, rainy downdraft and a warm updraft. To stop a tornado from forming, just heat this cold downdraft until it's cold no longer.

OR you throw a shit load of superabsorbent polymers or SAP's in the tornado.

They absorb all the water and the water will start to heat up because of the friction between air and other absorbed polymers resulting in a heating of the updraft.

But probably the downdraft is a lot more influential in this scenario so indeed, heating the cold downdraft would be a much wiser choice.

HAARP should be able to do this.

Drop napalm in the downdraft and ignite it?

Shit, i don't know.
 Quoting: Xibalbá be


Now were talkin!!! lots of napalm hmmm....could work.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:50 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Sounds like this could be deployed and rolled out the back of a c-130. One some big ass parachutes, does its business and lands safely. Could probably load a dozen of these things in the back and kill all the big twisters.

ohyeah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1066161


I was actually just thinking about that, but then it comes to efficiency. You are going to have boil-off before the LN hits the storm, which means you will have to drop more than needed. And without precisely calibrating it, you might have to drop a lot more.

The reason i bring this up is pertains to the effect of dropping massive amounts of LN onto people and structures.

I am pretty sure the effect of blast freezing people is going to be worse than the tornado.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


Welp I was thinking some kind of heavy duty Styrofoam lined container that when it hits the debris area gets ripped to shreds. In effect cutting the upper part of the tornado from that below. Or perhaps releasing it in the upper regions and thus killing the driver of the tornado
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1066161


You are still looking at boiloff once the container is destroyed. There is a massive temperature differential between liquid nitro and the ambient, even in a tornado. (if memory serves me correctly, LN is somewhere in the neighborhood of -190C, whereas most climates where tornadoes form are roughly 30-35C) Without an effective distribution system, most of the LN would likely be wasted before it was distributed effectively.


Its an idea, but one with major complications.
SaveTheLivingEntities​

User ID: 1393742
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05/24/2011 03:53 PM

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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Here is a hint.

A tornado is not just warm air rising, and cool all falling.

They are CHARGED SHEATH VORTEX's.

[link to www.peter-thomson.co.uk]
 Quoting: SaveTheLivingEntities


that might be the case, but the charge is a side effect, not the cause.

the flying debris essentially "rubbing" against itself inside the vortex creates a hell of a charge.

But the cause of the vortex is, as you said, warm air rising and cool air falling, and that would likely be the mechanism to exploit in order to defeat a tornado.

We would also need much better prediction capability.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


You didn't read the whole article.

Tornados are externally powered by the Super Cells they develop from, and Super Cells are externally powered by Flux Transfer Events ( [link to science.nasa.gov] that originate from the Sun.

Tornados which can sustain themselves for quite a while, are externally powered by the Sun. They are not just warm air rising and cool air falling. That cannot produce large amounts of energy like a Tornado.

Your idea is novel OP but it wont work, modern "Science" THINKS they know how Tornados work, and the result is that we don't really know anything about Tornados except that they form, they destroy, and they leave.
"A sense of common interest can be fostered among individuals, if they know that they are inter-connected, are parts of one Organic System and are the sons and daughters of one Father. Here is the task of all religions; to teach people that all beings of the world are closely inter-related. Although steadfastness or firm belief in God (Nistha) according to some particular faith and eligibility of the individual is congenial for healthy spiritual growth of every individual, religious bigotry which begets enmity is condemnable, as it is against the real interest of the individual and society. Real religion teaches love for one another. Lord Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu propagated the cult of all-embracing Divine Love which brings universal brotherhood on a transcendental plane.

(Srila Bhakti Dayita Madhava Maharaja )


"If one loves Krishna, he must love Lord Jesus also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus he must love Krishna too. If he says, "Why shall I love Krishna? I shall love Jesus," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus? I shall love Krishna", then he has no knowledge either. If one understands Krishna, then he will understand Jesus. If one understands Jesus, you'll understand Krishna too"

(Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada - Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg, May 12, 1969 / Columbus - Ohio)

Transmigration Of The Soul. All you need to know about REINCARNATION

Thread: YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF ALL YOUR PAST LIVES ***Transmigration of the Soul: Proof of Re-Incarnation*** ( 11 part video documentary ) link for thread
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:56 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Honestly, i think the one thing that most of you are failing to put into the proper perspective is how much energy is actually involved in a tornado. the quote earlier of 36 billion joules for a single, average tornado is equal to 8 TONS of conventional explosive, or enough energy to run the average home for a year.

countering that every time a tornado pops up would be a tremendous commitment in resources, and those numbers are just the average.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:58 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Have Helen Hunt stand in front of it.

Even if she doesn't scare it away wit her face it would stop on the wall of a forehead.
XinTexas (OP)

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05/24/2011 03:59 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
It worked for the Terminator. At least for a few minutes.
Don't bother calling me a Neocon. I'm a card-carrying Libertarian.
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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:59 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Here is a hint.

A tornado is not just warm air rising, and cool all falling.

They are CHARGED SHEATH VORTEX's.

[link to www.peter-thomson.co.uk]
 Quoting: SaveTheLivingEntities


that might be the case, but the charge is a side effect, not the cause.

the flying debris essentially "rubbing" against itself inside the vortex creates a hell of a charge.

But the cause of the vortex is, as you said, warm air rising and cool air falling, and that would likely be the mechanism to exploit in order to defeat a tornado.

We would also need much better prediction capability.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


You didn't read the whole article.

Tornados are externally powered by the Super Cells they develop from, and Super Cells are externally powered by Flux Transfer Events ( [link to science.nasa.gov] that originate from the Sun.

Tornados which can sustain themselves for quite a while, are externally powered by the Sun. They are not just warm air rising and cool air falling. That cannot produce large amounts of energy like a Tornado.

Your idea is novel OP but it wont work, modern "Science" THINKS they know how Tornados work, and the result is that we don't really know anything about Tornados except that they form, they destroy, and they leave.
 Quoting: SaveTheLivingEntities


when one person has a hypothesis that stays on the fringes of science, its usually for a reason.

Saying that scientists dont really know anything about tornadoes makes you look dumb. Science doesnt know everything about them, but we have a decent understanding of them, and can actually predict their formation with increasing accuracy. Its not good ENOUGH, but its getting there.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 04:00 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Have Helen Hunt stand in front of it.

Even if she doesn't scare it away wit her face it would stop on the wall of a forehead.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1398569


Dont they miss this house and miss that house and come after her?
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 04:02 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Ha ha. That is hilarious! Thanks Mr. Wizard!
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 04:04 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Ha ha. That is hilarious! Thanks Mr. Wizard!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1397624


Mr. Wizard taught me a ton.

I know how to build a simple solar motor because of him.

Too bad he is dead.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 04:04 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I've often wondered this same exact thing. There must be a way to implement such an idea.

It's probably just a cost issue, but it would save millions (of people AND dollars) in the long run.
 Quoting: Rambaldi


We are a consumer society. Tornadoes consume. Our masters love tornadoes.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 04:06 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Translation of OP's theory,

"I'm a stupid pothead that voted for Obama, that's how fucking stupid I am. Now I'm gonna stop the weather from being bad." Yes we can!
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 04:07 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
We need a giant vacuum cleaner, sucks the clouds away... Really!
Rambaldi

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05/24/2011 04:13 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
In order to form, a tornado needs both a cold, rainy downdraft and a warm updraft. To stop a tornado from forming, just heat this cold downdraft until it's cold no longer.
 Quoting: Xibalbá be


So perhaps we just point several dozen laser pointers at it then?

There must be SOME way to stop the process. In twenty years, we will have tornado distruptors.
Gur ubhe vf nyzbfg ng unaq.
a little then.
User ID: 1398235
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05/24/2011 04:15 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
it does concentrate nuclear waste for you.
:/
olaf
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05/24/2011 04:16 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
oh no that goes up instead of down after it touches down.

oh man difficult.
XinTexas (OP)

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05/24/2011 04:20 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Translation of OP's theory,

"I'm a stupid pothead that voted for Obama, that's how fucking stupid I am. Now I'm gonna stop the weather from being bad." Yes we can!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1166818


Translation of your theory: You're a rude motherfucker and I'm a Libertarian. I voted for Ron Paul. You have also made me realize why I don't post here anymore. It was just an idea. Thanks for waking my "stupid pothead" ass up and how about you just go fuck yourself.
Don't bother calling me a Neocon. I'm a card-carrying Libertarian.
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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain
Xibalbá be

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05/24/2011 04:21 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Honestly, i think the one thing that most of you are failing to put into the proper perspective is how much energy is actually involved in a tornado. the quote earlier of 36 billion joules for a single, average tornado is equal to 8 TONS of conventional explosive, or enough energy to run the average home for a year.

countering that every time a tornado pops up would be a tremendous commitment in resources, and those numbers are just the average.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


Yes, we should rather invest in war and killing innocent people so that people at home could die also when we take the money away from them and leave them to die!

lmaolmao
“The desire of power in excess caused the angels to fall; the desire of knowledge in excess caused man to fall.”
- Francis Bacon, Sr. quotes (English Lawyer and Philosopher. 1561-1626)

You will now All->Save->Undo->Cut->Copy->Paste->Bold->Print->Home->Alt->Ct​rl->Pause->Break->Page Down->Page Up->Enter Insert->End->Delete

Choose your destiny.

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