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Police Militarization - The Quandary.

 
Havok
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06/16/2011 02:56 AM
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Police Militarization - The Quandary.
This is a not a pro police thread by any sense. So dont jump my shit.

But rather a what the fuck are we going to do? thread.

To me its a problem that can't readily be solved. Because in certain ways the police have rose to the threat level of society.

If we go back to Andy Griffith days thugs and drug lords would have this place looking like Mexico looks now. Do people honestly think that if we softened police techniques there isn't enough loss of moral fiber in the world today that people wouldn't exploit it to the extreme?

The problem comes from the fact that we need extreme force for some things. And not for others. Things that need extreme force happen so rarely though, that its not worth having a specific force designated to that. So you get mixbreeding. SWAT is exactly what I'm talking about regarding specific forces yet even then only major cities can afford them readily on hand. But they usually dont have enough to do so they get called in on minor pot raids etc... But not all areas have SWAT funding etc so they have to upgrade their civilian peace force to match, and usually do this on an even level across the nation even if the force has SWAT backing. Its like looking through a catalog and thinking your force needs to keep up with the joneses.

This isn't a thread about the many specific atrocities the police commit daily. This is about ideas that could fix this. Because I dont see any. Its not as simple as just killing them all. Because the irony would be that would be the worst mistake we could make. lawlessness wouldn't be pretty either.

How do we convince them to chill when their buddy just got shot by a little old lady that ran a stop light?
Fear is the father of all lies. ~ A. Crowley
Havok  (OP)

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06/16/2011 03:06 AM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
angry2
Fear is the father of all lies. ~ A. Crowley
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 03:09 AM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
bump for discussion when I wake up. This is something that needs to be discussed.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 03:11 AM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
I have a great idea. Punish the ones that hurt civillians like the criminals that these guys are. They are dangerous and just as deadly as any other gang. If it keeps the same trend we will look like Mexico because of them. So start arresting and prosecuting the ones that need it so the immoral pricks stop seeing it as a get out of jail free card. Thats and idea right there, and i personally think it makes sense. It isn;t fucking rocket science.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 03:21 AM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
95IQ...nuf said
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 03:23 AM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
I don't want anything to do with cops.

I'm not the type to call them because I need help. The only reason I would call them is to cover my ass, because someone somewhere will punish anyone at anytime.

There is no justice. There are the Laws of the Land, the Laws of Men, and then there are the statutes and policies used in the for profit world, to fill the coffers.

The Prisons are gladiator schools, not reformatories.

And the issue with cops isn't about fighting crime much anymore. It's about shaking people down.

And the standards are lacking. The standards need to be raised significantly. Quotas on diversity be damned.
Havok  (OP)

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06/16/2011 03:31 AM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
I have a great idea. Punish the ones that hurt civillians like the criminals that these guys are. They are dangerous and just as deadly as any other gang. If it keeps the same trend we will look like Mexico because of them. So start arresting and prosecuting the ones that need it so the immoral pricks stop seeing it as a get out of jail free card. Thats and idea right there, and i personally think it makes sense. It isn;t fucking rocket science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430437


Its not a new idea. yet nothing has seemed to come of it. In fact they are more protected now then ever. Any ideas of implementing this practice?

Dont get me wrong I agree 100%. I just think it has to be something bigger then this on a systematic scale. I just dont know what it is.
Fear is the father of all lies. ~ A. Crowley
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1430437
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06/16/2011 03:34 AM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
I have a great idea. Punish the ones that hurt civillians like the criminals that these guys are. They are dangerous and just as deadly as any other gang. If it keeps the same trend we will look like Mexico because of them. So start arresting and prosecuting the ones that need it so the immoral pricks stop seeing it as a get out of jail free card. Thats and idea right there, and i personally think it makes sense. It isn;t fucking rocket science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430437


Its not a new idea. yet nothing has seemed to come of it. In fact they are more protected now then ever. Any ideas of implementing this practice?

Dont get me wrong I agree 100%. I just think it has to be something bigger then this on a systematic scale. I just dont know what it is.
 Quoting: Havok


You're right. WTF was i thinking. For this to work, the civillians would actually have to give a shit whether or not it was their family members being violated. Until then people just turn a blind eye and act as if cops do not abuse power daily. It is up to us, and as a whole it is useless. So the answer to the question is there is nothing that can be as long as we let our government work like a well oiled Mafia.
Havok  (OP)

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06/16/2011 03:43 AM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
I have a great idea. Punish the ones that hurt civillians like the criminals that these guys are. They are dangerous and just as deadly as any other gang. If it keeps the same trend we will look like Mexico because of them. So start arresting and prosecuting the ones that need it so the immoral pricks stop seeing it as a get out of jail free card. Thats and idea right there, and i personally think it makes sense. It isn;t fucking rocket science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430437


Its not a new idea. yet nothing has seemed to come of it. In fact they are more protected now then ever. Any ideas of implementing this practice?

Dont get me wrong I agree 100%. I just think it has to be something bigger then this on a systematic scale. I just dont know what it is.
 Quoting: Havok


You're right. WTF was i thinking. For this to work, the civillians would actually have to give a shit whether or not it was their family members being violated. Until then people just turn a blind eye and act as if cops do not abuse power daily. It is up to us, and as a whole it is useless. So the answer to the question is there is nothing that can be as long as we let our government work like a well oiled Mafia.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430437

I wasn't dissing you. So no need to be snide. The thing is that it always comes back to the fact that 95 percent of us are sheep and that includes the henchmen known as police. And that's why I question WTF are we going to do?
Fear is the father of all lies. ~ A. Crowley
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 03:55 AM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
I have a great idea. Punish the ones that hurt civillians like the criminals that these guys are. They are dangerous and just as deadly as any other gang. If it keeps the same trend we will look like Mexico because of them. So start arresting and prosecuting the ones that need it so the immoral pricks stop seeing it as a get out of jail free card. Thats and idea right there, and i personally think it makes sense. It isn;t fucking rocket science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430437


Its not a new idea. yet nothing has seemed to come of it. In fact they are more protected now then ever. Any ideas of implementing this practice?

Dont get me wrong I agree 100%. I just think it has to be something bigger then this on a systematic scale. I just dont know what it is.
 Quoting: Havok


You're right. WTF was i thinking. For this to work, the civillians would actually have to give a shit whether or not it was their family members being violated. Until then people just turn a blind eye and act as if cops do not abuse power daily. It is up to us, and as a whole it is useless. So the answer to the question is there is nothing that can be as long as we let our government work like a well oiled Mafia.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430437

I wasn't dissing you. So no need to be snide. The thing is that it always comes back to the fact that 95 percent of us are sheep and that includes the henchmen known as police. And that's why I question WTF are we going to do?
 Quoting: Havok


Lmao. I was not being snide. Im a cynical sarcastic asshole. I was in complete agreeance with you man. lol. my bad if i sounded snide. Because of that 95% you and I will continue to not only put up with things like this. But watch it get worst. So in the end we can thank the snobby and the uneducated people who all think they know better. Or are just to lazy to give a shit. These are the people that will make us all pay in the end and that sucks. But please do not think i was offended
Havok  (OP)

User ID: 1334597
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06/16/2011 01:29 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
...


Its not a new idea. yet nothing has seemed to come of it. In fact they are more protected now then ever. Any ideas of implementing this practice?

Dont get me wrong I agree 100%. I just think it has to be something bigger then this on a systematic scale. I just dont know what it is.
 Quoting: Havok


You're right. WTF was i thinking. For this to work, the civillians would actually have to give a shit whether or not it was their family members being violated. Until then people just turn a blind eye and act as if cops do not abuse power daily. It is up to us, and as a whole it is useless. So the answer to the question is there is nothing that can be as long as we let our government work like a well oiled Mafia.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430437

I wasn't dissing you. So no need to be snide. The thing is that it always comes back to the fact that 95 percent of us are sheep and that includes the henchmen known as police. And that's why I question WTF are we going to do?
 Quoting: Havok


Lmao. I was not being snide. Im a cynical sarcastic asshole. I was in complete agreeance with you man. lol. my bad if i sounded snide. Because of that 95% you and I will continue to not only put up with things like this. But watch it get worst. So in the end we can thank the snobby and the uneducated people who all think they know better. Or are just to lazy to give a shit. These are the people that will make us all pay in the end and that sucks. But please do not think i was offended
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430437

word -

It really does no good to be insightful or pro active if a majority of the people/police cant see the forest for the trees. Its a sad state.
Fear is the father of all lies. ~ A. Crowley
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 01:34 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
Ask the Israeli police and military.
Travel around there and there are TONS of heavily armed patrols even in Tel Aviv, but they're not hassling and bullying people, tackling skateboarders and just generally being assholes.
They don't feel you up in the airports either.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 01:37 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
Ask the Israeli police and military.
Travel around there and there are TONS of heavily armed patrols even in Tel Aviv, but they're not hassling and bullying people, tackling skateboarders and just generally being assholes.
They don't feel you up in the airports either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430384


Italy as well.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 01:45 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
Ask the Israeli police and military.
Travel around there and there are TONS of heavily armed patrols even in Tel Aviv, but they're not hassling and bullying people, tackling skateboarders and just generally being assholes.
They don't feel you up in the airports either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430384


The Israeli police and military are not controlled by the likes of DHS.
Gannon

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06/16/2011 02:01 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
The Tommy Gun was introduced into gangland warfare during Alcohol Prohibition in the 30s, most likely by the Purple Gang of Detroit.

When Prohibition ended, Elliot Ness and his boys had to find another line of work.


WHY?! Because the Black Market for alcohol distribution was publicized and put into government hands. No more need for the big guns in organized crime then, no more war with a governmental agency formed to enforce a law that NEVER should've been put on the books.



The instant all drugs are legalized, and addiction is treated as the health issue it truly is...then the same exact thing will happen.


Of course, now that the failed Drug War is self-funded by shakedowns of innocents...that is not likely to ever happen.


<sigh>


Sincerely,
John
Gadfly and Rogue Philosopher
Havok  (OP)

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06/16/2011 03:25 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
The Tommy Gun was introduced into gangland warfare during Alcohol Prohibition in the 30s, most likely by the Purple Gang of Detroit.

When Prohibition ended, Elliot Ness and his boys had to find another line of work.


WHY?! Because the Black Market for alcohol distribution was publicized and put into government hands. No more need for the big guns in organized crime then, no more war with a governmental agency formed to enforce a law that NEVER should've been put on the books.



The instant all drugs are legalized, and addiction is treated as the health issue it truly is...then the same exact thing will happen.


Of course, now that the failed Drug War is self-funded by shakedowns of innocents...that is not likely to ever happen.


<sigh>


Sincerely,
John
 Quoting: Gannon

There is a catch to this concept though. Legalizing drugs would have many drawbacks that contradict a peaceful transition which would actually merit more policing. having done some time in the heavy drug world in my past. The likes of cocaine and meth make you into an evil motherfucker on one level or another. While liquor does this, it is usually personality related. The white drugs corrupt universally. Pot should be legal and shouldn't even be in a discussion of "Drugs" as they relate to policing. But it is.

To agree with you on a level. I believe the actual war on drugs should end. Meaning stop taking the fight to them or pursuing distributors. Simply if you get caught with them you're busted. That's where it ends. But they probably still shouldn't be legal. (except weed) Just handled more on the Cuban cigar level.
Fear is the father of all lies. ~ A. Crowley
Havok  (OP)

User ID: 1334597
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06/16/2011 03:29 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
Ask the Israeli police and military.
Travel around there and there are TONS of heavily armed patrols even in Tel Aviv, but they're not hassling and bullying people, tackling skateboarders and just generally being assholes.
They don't feel you up in the airports either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430384


They have something we don't though and that's a base moral ethic centered on/around religion among their people. We have Moral ethics from one end of the spectrum to the other.

But I get your point regarding rational prioritizing.
Fear is the father of all lies. ~ A. Crowley
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 03:35 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
This is a not a pro police thread by any sense. So dont jump my shit.

But rather a what the fuck are we going to do? thread.

To me its a problem that can't readily be solved. Because in certain ways the police have rose to the threat level of society.

If we go back to Andy Griffith days thugs and drug lords would have this place looking like Mexico looks now. Do people honestly think that if we softened police techniques there isn't enough loss of moral fiber in the world today that people wouldn't exploit it to the extreme?

The problem comes from the fact that we need extreme force for some things. And not for others. Things that need extreme force happen so rarely though, that its not worth having a specific force designated to that. So you get mixbreeding. SWAT is exactly what I'm talking about regarding specific forces yet even then only major cities can afford them readily on hand. But they usually dont have enough to do so they get called in on minor pot raids etc... But not all areas have SWAT funding etc so they have to upgrade their civilian peace force to match, and usually do this on an even level across the nation even if the force has SWAT backing. Its like looking through a catalog and thinking your force needs to keep up with the joneses.

This isn't a thread about the many specific atrocities the police commit daily. This is about ideas that could fix this. Because I dont see any. Its not as simple as just killing them all. Because the irony would be that would be the worst mistake we could make. lawlessness wouldn't be pretty either.

How do we convince them to chill when their buddy just got shot by a little old lady that ran a stop light?
 Quoting: Havok


Vermont style carry for all citizens nationwide, this is to include all types of firearms. So that means, yes, if I want to take AR 15 to dinner and a movie with me, I can.

NO RESTRICTIONS on firearm ownership or carry.

An armed society is a polite society.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 03:37 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
Ask the Israeli police and military.
Travel around there and there are TONS of heavily armed patrols even in Tel Aviv, but they're not hassling and bullying people, tackling skateboarders and just generally being assholes.
They don't feel you up in the airports either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430384


Funny, how the situation in the US has seemed to degrade at an even greater rate (with police forces as a whole becoming more militarized/nazi/jackboot thug-like) concomitant with loads of police brass being flown to Israel for "training".

[link to www.adl.org]

[link to www.adl.org]

[link to www.adl.org]

And why is a Jewish partisan organization (the ADL), that itself has grossly violated the law in the past TRAINING OUR POLICE!?!?!
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 03:45 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
There has been a huge drop in violent criminality in the last thirty years. The militerization of the enforcers is totally uncalled for. Stop watching cops and other brainwashing programs and you'll feel a lot safer.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 03:45 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
Appropriate responses would help....there is no need to use SWAT or kick in people's doors in the middle of the night for non violent cases....do we forget the Ruby Ridge incident? a simple knock on the door would have ended the situation from the beginning....unfortunately for most police forces when all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like nails....

Secondly, being Law Enforcement is a position of authority and the officers should be held to a HIGHER standard than the citizens....instead we get the blue wall of silence that tries to protect every scumbag cop....A real police force would want to weed out the bad apples that make the look bad as a whole....protecting bad cops with light sentences and covering up wrongdoings only promotes a sense of gangsterism with the ranks and shows the public the level of accountability they can expect...

OK...let me get off the soapbox now....NEXT!
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2011 03:52 PM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
Drug laws exist solely to create crime.
If drugs were legal, there would be no drug lords.

The drug lords have to exist in order for the government to justify spending billions of dollars to fight them.

It's all about money.
Power and wealth, same old song and dance.

If you agree that drugs should be illegal then that is nothing more that an admission that you do not own yourself.

Who owns you?

Do you own you? or are you owned.

if you agree that anyone other than you has any say what so ever about what you choose to do with your own body, then you do not own yourself.

its that simple.
Anonymous Coward
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06/17/2011 07:41 AM
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Re: Police Militarization - The Quandary.
Learn how to Lawfully deal with Police Enforcers of Statutes, Regulations, Codes and Acts that only apply to Government employees, not to you.

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