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WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1433063
Canada
06/18/2011 03:20 AM
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WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
In 2009, James Ball lost his job and was unable to continue making child support payments. His ex-wife, Karen Ball, filed for a hearing on contempt of court, which the court scheduled for 6/24/2011. She alleges that Thomas owes thousands in back child support and attorney’s fees and demands the court sentence him to jail until he can pay the amounts demanded.

James Ball burned himself to death on June 16, 2011 using a large amount of gasoline in front of the Keene, New Hampshire court house. Thomas Ball in a "suicide letter" stated he believed he would end up in jail, saying:

I am due in court the end of the month. The ex-wife lawyer wants me jailed for back child support. The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. depending on who you ask. Not big money after being separated over ten years and unemployed for the last two. But I do owe it. If I show up for court without the money and the lawyer say jail, then the judge will have the bailiff take me into custody. There really are no surprises on how the system works once you know how it actually works. And it does not work anything like they taught you in high school history or civics class.
[link to freekeene.com]


THAT'S AMERICA...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1421992
United States
06/18/2011 03:22 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Guy was obv frustrated but he also obv had more balls and committment than most Americans.

Not going to say I condone the act - a child could have been watching it occur and be scarred for life over it - but I'm not going to say I don't understand it either. I do.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1433063
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06/18/2011 03:22 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
That's what happens when the fucking divorce laws aren't reformed and the women ALWAYS FUCKING WIN. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

I've never seen a case where the wife lost. Never. Doesn't matter if the wife have a $200k a year job and the father is unemployed. The wife wins. Every time.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1433082
United States
06/18/2011 03:25 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
That's what happens when the fucking divorce laws aren't reformed and the women ALWAYS FUCKING WIN. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

I've never seen a case where the wife lost. Never. Doesn't matter if the wife have a $200k a year job and the father is unemployed. The wife wins. Every time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


this is why i believe marriage in america is a trap

feminazis out to rape your hard working ass, dump you for an illegal or mulatto, take your kids and make you work 3 part time jobs just to pay child support

can't say i blame him

i've been down that road many times...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1433036
United States
06/18/2011 03:26 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Blow it out your ass. The guy was a deadbeat and an abuser. I'm in the area.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1421992
United States
06/18/2011 03:26 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Well... I went thru a divorce but thankfully my ex wife and I agreed we weren't going to make it the nightmare it usually is.

We divided our property up ourselves and only went to a lawyer to formalize it all and help with the paperwork filing.

I blame his wife (obv, if you read his letter) just as much as anyone in this... perhaps she's 80 or 90% of the problem here and all his ranting over the cops role is rubbish.

Women suck. At least my ex was reasonable and civilized. Most women aren't. Women are insane.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 860387
United States
06/18/2011 03:32 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
This is an effect of being marked with the beast, an invalid Novus Ordo baptism. Combine that with an invalid Sacrament of Marriage (invalid is a nice term for a curse) and things make spiritual sense.

[link to fatimamovement.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1433063
Canada
06/18/2011 03:33 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Blow it out your ass. The guy was a deadbeat and an abuser. I'm in the area.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433036


Yeah right. And that was the case for the tens of thousands of other dads who ended up in jail for not paying their bitch ex wife right?
wildhoney

User ID: 1433068
Spain
06/18/2011 03:34 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
In 2009, James Ball lost his job and was unable to continue making child support payments. His ex-wife, Karen Ball, filed for a hearing on contempt of court, which the court scheduled for 6/24/2011. She alleges that Thomas owes thousands in back child support and attorney’s fees and demands the court sentence him to jail until he can pay the amounts demanded.

James Ball burned himself to death on June 16, 2011 using a large amount of gasoline in front of the Keene, New Hampshire court house. Thomas Ball in a "suicide letter" stated he believed he would end up in jail, saying:

I am due in court the end of the month. The ex-wife lawyer wants me jailed for back child support. The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. depending on who you ask. Not big money after being separated over ten years and unemployed for the last two. But I do owe it. If I show up for court without the money and the lawyer say jail, then the judge will have the bailiff take me into custody. There really are no surprises on how the system works once you know how it actually works. And it does not work anything like they taught you in high school history or civics class.
[link to freekeene.com]


THAT'S AMERICA...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


oh man..verysad
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1288576
United States
06/18/2011 03:38 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
wtf dumbass

there is NO SUCH THING as debtors prison!!!

wtf




.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1433063
Canada
06/18/2011 03:39 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
wtf dumbass

there is NO SUCH THING as debtors prison!!!

wtf




.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288576


MWAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAA YOU BELIEVE THAT? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1193082
United States
06/18/2011 04:20 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
How does "put him in jail until he can pay" work? They cannot get blood from a stone. It doesn't, and they would not put him in jail forever either. But apparently he'd been screwed so bad in court already, he could no longer think straight.

Sad. Too bad he didn't have someone to talk him through this and tell him that rightly, it's only his responsibility to pay if he can pay. I'm sure he's forgiven for this, if suicide is a sin.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1311987
United States
06/18/2011 07:29 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
It is the mans job to provide regardless. Now man up and pay your child support!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1433223
United States
06/18/2011 07:32 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Hummm, I think manning up and getting a job would have been slightly less painfull.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 500063
United States
06/18/2011 07:35 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
How does "put him in jail until he can pay" work? They cannot get blood from a stone. It doesn't, and they would not put him in jail forever either. But apparently he'd been screwed so bad in court already, he could no longer think straight.

Sad. Too bad he didn't have someone to talk him through this and tell him that rightly, it's only his responsibility to pay if he can pay. I'm sure he's forgiven for this, if suicide is a sin.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1193082


Maybe, but the system has catches like that.

You can be detained indefinably for contempt of court. In this case to show he isn't in contempt he'd have to come up with money.

Normally someone would bail him out and then he;d owe a third party the money, but if he didn't have any assets or friends, he'd rot, waiting for the judge to retire and a new one to cut him some slack.

I've heard of people held for that for over two years. Not forever, but there is no time limit.
ella

User ID: 1112343
United States
06/18/2011 07:40 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
wtf dumbass

there is NO SUCH THING as debtors prison!!!

wtf




.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288576


MWAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAA YOU BELIEVE THAT? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


Says the Canadian???

Perhaps Mr Ball didn't realize there were no such thing as debtors prison in the U.S. Perhaps Mr. Ball was Canadian and forgot he was in America??
Rastifar143

User ID: 1422775
United States
06/18/2011 07:41 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
In 2009, James Ball lost his job and was unable to continue making child support payments. His ex-wife, Karen Ball, filed for a hearing on contempt of court, which the court scheduled for 6/24/2011. She alleges that Thomas owes thousands in back child support and attorney’s fees and demands the court sentence him to jail until he can pay the amounts demanded.

James Ball burned himself to death on June 16, 2011 using a large amount of gasoline in front of the Keene, New Hampshire court house. Thomas Ball in a "suicide letter" stated he believed he would end up in jail, saying:

I am due in court the end of the month. The ex-wife lawyer wants me jailed for back child support. The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. depending on who you ask. Not big money after being separated over ten years and unemployed for the last two. But I do owe it. If I show up for court without the money and the lawyer say jail, then the judge will have the bailiff take me into custody. There really are no surprises on how the system works once you know how it actually works. And it does not work anything like they taught you in high school history or civics class.
[link to freekeene.com]


THAT'S AMERICA...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


What about the child. WHAT ABOUT THE CHILD !!! This is going to be so damaging to the child. I cry for that poor soul !
ella

User ID: 1112343
United States
06/18/2011 07:43 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
That's what happens when the fucking divorce laws aren't reformed and the women ALWAYS FUCKING WIN. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

I've never seen a case where the wife lost. Never. Doesn't matter if the wife have a $200k a year job and the father is unemployed. The wife wins. Every time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063



can't say i blame him

i've been down that road many times...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433082


What kind of stupid goes "down that road many times..."?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1429792
United States
06/18/2011 07:44 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Hummm, I think manning up and getting a job would have been slightly less painfull.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433223


How do you "man up" and get a job even AFTER you get out of prison?

Ever fill out an employment application?
snow_bunny

User ID: 1425171
United States
06/18/2011 07:44 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
In 2009, James Ball lost his job and was unable to continue making child support payments. His ex-wife, Karen Ball, filed for a hearing on contempt of court, which the court scheduled for 6/24/2011. She alleges that Thomas owes thousands in back child support and attorney’s fees and demands the court sentence him to jail until he can pay the amounts demanded.

James Ball burned himself to death on June 16, 2011 using a large amount of gasoline in front of the Keene, New Hampshire court house. Thomas Ball in a "suicide letter" stated he believed he would end up in jail, saying:

I am due in court the end of the month. The ex-wife lawyer wants me jailed for back child support. The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. depending on who you ask. Not big money after being separated over ten years and unemployed for the last two. But I do owe it. If I show up for court without the money and the lawyer say jail, then the judge will have the bailiff take me into custody. There really are no surprises on how the system works once you know how it actually works. And it does not work anything like they taught you in high school history or civics class.
[link to freekeene.com]


THAT'S AMERICA...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


There is no "Debtors" Prison. That was a court order for child support you stupid fear monger!

yeahsure
ella

User ID: 1112343
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06/18/2011 07:47 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
What about the child. WHAT ABOUT THE CHILD !!! This is going to be so damaging to the child. I cry for that poor soul !
 Quoting: Rastifar143


I agree! Forget blaming it on the wife. What kind of man burns himself to death instead of sticking around for his child?

Only a crazy man would do such a thing and you point fingers at the wife, or worse at all women???

I agree Rastifar143, what about the child?
Dire Wolf
Top Hat

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United States
06/18/2011 07:49 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
We served foreclosure papers to two men. One man parked on the top parking level of a garage, and when he got out of his car, he ran and jumped off the floor onto the roadway three stories below.
The other man turned on the city council and held them hostage until they shot him.
ella

User ID: 1112343
United States
06/18/2011 07:53 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Ever fill out an employment application?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1429792


So are you somehow connecting this with burning yourself to death?

What the hell is wrong with people???huh

I'm going to bed and try my best to forget that I ever read this thread
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1431702
United States
06/18/2011 07:59 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
I dont get it, is his name James or Thomas, one sentence calls him James very next calls him Thomas. Im surprised no one else picked up on this?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1412369
United States
06/18/2011 08:11 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Actually I have seen 1 time and only 1 time a man won, my friend's wife was soooo strung out on drugs she forged a prescription and was arrested for it, he was an ex-cop and had probably the best attourney money can buy for the case (basically spent every penny he had), they kept filing motions (not sure on what basis) until the judge was a man and he won FULL custody of his kid when all was said and done. He then married and had another which "secured" the first one as the courts prefer not to break up siblings.

BUT I HAVE NEVER EVEN HEARD OF ANOTHER TIME, hope that give somebody some hope...

That's what happens when the fucking divorce laws aren't reformed and the women ALWAYS FUCKING WIN. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

I've never seen a case where the wife lost. Never. Doesn't matter if the wife have a $200k a year job and the father is unemployed. The wife wins. Every time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063
serendipity
User ID: 1398227
United States
06/18/2011 08:12 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Considering that the Department of Education can now use swat teams to collect.....

Our judicial system is corrupt.

We have total system(s) failure in all aspects of Government.

How much more are we going to take?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1412369
United States
06/18/2011 08:14 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Simple logic dictates, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one"...

spock


In 2009, James Ball lost his job and was unable to continue making child support payments. His ex-wife, Karen Ball, filed for a hearing on contempt of court, which the court scheduled for 6/24/2011. She alleges that Thomas owes thousands in back child support and attorney’s fees and demands the court sentence him to jail until he can pay the amounts demanded.

James Ball burned himself to death on June 16, 2011 using a large amount of gasoline in front of the Keene, New Hampshire court house. Thomas Ball in a "suicide letter" stated he believed he would end up in jail, saying:

I am due in court the end of the month. The ex-wife lawyer wants me jailed for back child support. The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. depending on who you ask. Not big money after being separated over ten years and unemployed for the last two. But I do owe it. If I show up for court without the money and the lawyer say jail, then the judge will have the bailiff take me into custody. There really are no surprises on how the system works once you know how it actually works. And it does not work anything like they taught you in high school history or civics class.
[link to freekeene.com]


THAT'S AMERICA...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


What about the child. WHAT ABOUT THE CHILD !!! This is going to be so damaging to the child. I cry for that poor soul !
 Quoting: Rastifar143
Evil_Twin

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06/18/2011 08:16 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
What a jackass. Not only could this loser not provide for his child, but he decided it would be a good idea to leave the kid with a huge psychological trauma as well.
:nutkick:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
06/18/2011 08:16 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
His last statement is here:

[link to www.sentinelsource.com]

Makes a document of 16 to 18 pages depending on font and page size.

Lots of comments follow the statement; just going through them now.

All kinds of political, social, moral ramifications.
Lisa*Lisa

User ID: 1106916
United States
06/18/2011 08:21 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
This is an incredibly sad and disturbing story. However, the father was selfish and unloving.

Why do I say that? Because he just destroyed the lives of his own children, and they were innocent and had nothing to do with it.

Imagine that little girl has to grow up and live with the knowledge that because she acted up before bed one night, her daddy burned himself alive. She will probably feel incredible guilt over this for her entire life.

It will be a miracle if she comes out of this normal, same goes for the rest of the children.

If he truly loved his children, and was putting them first, he never would have done what he did.

Suicide is never the answer. In fact, it's an act of pure selfishness most of the time because the person only wants to end their own problems, not caring about the tragic mess they are leaving behind for their loved ones, especially children.

Pitiful.
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not sure
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06/18/2011 08:22 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
happy fathers day to that bitch.

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