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WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1408008
United States
06/18/2011 09:12 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
yeah what a pussy to not support his child and hit his 4 year old for a stupid reason. he brought all this on himself and he couldn't deal with the consequences.

good riddance. and wishing violence and death on public officials is despicable
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1193082
United States
06/18/2011 09:18 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
...

to bad he did not think his children needed him as a dad more than all the $$$

also, I know OP was not a US resident when he said DEBTOR's PRISON in his title -

no such thing in the USA.
...
 Quoting: Merry Oaks

How is a dad supposed to feel when one must pay child support but is hardly allowed by the court to visit the children? Heck in the case we're discussing, if the authorities had not stepped in with both feet to destroy the marriage, they would still be married and we would have none of these issues.

OP is probably a US resident who not only lives here, but went to school here and paid attention when they discussed debtor's prison in history classes. He's saying it's back, and if "contempt of court" for not paying a debt (even if you can pay!) gets you put in prison, I would say that we do indeed have debtor's prison.
Merry Oaks

User ID: 1388309
United States
06/18/2011 09:27 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
...

to bad he did not think his children needed him as a dad more than all the $$$

also, I know OP was not a US resident when he said DEBTOR's PRISON in his title -

no such thing in the USA.
...
 Quoting: Merry Oaks

How is a dad supposed to feel when one must pay child support but is hardly allowed by the court to visit the children? Heck in the case we're discussing, if the authorities had not stepped in with both feet to destroy the marriage, they would still be married and we would have none of these issues.

OP is probably a US resident who not only lives here, but went to school here and paid attention when they discussed debtor's prison in history classes. He's saying it's back, and if "contempt of court" for not paying a debt (even if you can pay!) gets you put in prison, I would say that we do indeed have debtor's prison.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1193082


sorry, you are telling the wrong person here I have 10 + years with the court system here dealing with a self centered ex. When I read this guy's letter, the dead dad, he is way fucked up and so me me me no wonder he did this. Look into suicide. Sometimes it is how the "victim" chooses to punish those who are left behind.

Go to any court, any attorney, read up on laws instead of just siding with the men because all non-custodial parents pay support. Male or female. I pay support in fact and I am female. I have paid for years and yeah, go to court and tell your side or better, have an attorney tell your side and the judge can rule/overrule matters.


This (dead man) was a selfish bastard to kill himself. Bottom line. He abused and bullied his daughter, his ex wife and continues to do so from his grave because of his self centered actions.

shit. and this guy is a hero to you men?

how about the dad, the mom who pays their $2000 and faces it like a man, be it the problems in the marriage, the anger issues, gets help, addresses his weaknesses to make him/herself better?

why isn't that person the hero?
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1053449
United States
06/18/2011 09:31 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
yeah what a pussy to not support his child and hit his 4 year old for a stupid reason. he brought all this on himself and he couldn't deal with the consequences.

good riddance. and wishing violence and death on public officials is despicable
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1408008


The King of England was a public official so was Hitler... hell so was Richard Nixon and his break in squad, but I guess from your perspective they should be tolerated if not protected... Right? And this soul destroyed only one, himself. Facts always destroy blind emotions..
Buggedout

User ID: 1287579
United States
06/18/2011 09:38 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Blow it out your ass. The guy was a deadbeat and an abuser. I'm in the area.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433036


and u would even use the fire extinguisher? WOW.
UUh...iz diz realz?
Merry Oaks

User ID: 1388309
United States
06/18/2011 09:41 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
...

to bad he did not think his children needed him as a dad more than all the $$$

also, I know OP was not a US resident when he said DEBTOR's PRISON in his title -

no such thing in the USA.
...
 Quoting: Merry Oaks

How is a dad supposed to feel when one must pay child support but is hardly allowed by the court to visit the children? Heck in the case we're discussing, if the authorities had not stepped in with both feet to destroy the marriage, they would still be married and we would have none of these issues.

OP is probably a US resident who not only lives here, but went to school here and paid attention when they discussed debtor's prison in history classes. He's saying it's back, and if "contempt of court" for not paying a debt (even if you can pay!) gets you put in prison, I would say that we do indeed have debtor's prison.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1193082


excuse me, WTF?

[link to www.bankruptcylawnetwork.com]

Does Debtor’s Prison Still Exist in the United States, and What is an Order of Capias?

by Bankruptcy Law Network · Posted in Bankruptcy Basics,Your Bankruptcy Attorney & You
inShare

Many times in the past I have been asked by potential clients whether they could be imprisoned for getting behind on credit card payments or failing to pay old debts. Invariably my answer has been in the negative. Of course it has. The concept of the debtors’ prison is extremely antiquated. Evidently, the last known instance of debtor’s prison in the United States was around 1833 when it was eliminated by federal decree. In Great Britain, debtor’s prisons were made unlawful by the Debtors Act of 1869. So, of course I have advised clients and potential clients that incarceration would not follow their inability to pay their debts (with the notable exception, of course, of certain fraudulent debts, child support debts, criminal-related fines and certain tax debts).

--
You can see by the little flag by OP he is posting from canada. You can also tell from his smug hateful attitude he is from canada :re THAT"S AMERICA

you can tell he DOES Not KNOW because he talks out his ass about a debtor's prison.

Where the hell did YOU go to school where they taught there was a debtor' prison?


The reason this guy was in court was because he could not/did not pay child support. It was in the divorce papers. He should have addressed that.

A person pays a percent of their income for child support.

If you can't pay that (no job) you need to come forward and show the problem to a judge. The amount can be changed, it is connected with your income. No income? Contact the attorney general and inform them. They will have a court date set and you can show what you have got.

A lot of the language in the articles I have read on this are angled to play up "how unfair" it was to this guy.

Really? He had options and he chose the worst one.

The coward's route really. And for a fukkin $2000.

Damn.

This James Ball sounds like when he could not have 100% HIS WAY, there was hell to pay.

Sad really. You guys need to get an attorney or make some calls to work on your situation if you feel it is unfair.

Not BLAME EVERYONE BUT "YOURSELF". It would have worked so much in his favor to get counseling but NOPE NOPE NOT GONNA TELL ME WHAT TO DO was the hallmark of this "man."
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Crazy_hy

User ID: 1433987
China
06/18/2011 09:45 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
..just pass through
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1392841
United States
06/18/2011 09:47 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Hummm, I think manning up and getting a job would have been slightly less painfull.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433223


Its not about manning up, wtf is the matter with you people dont you read, read the freaking story man there is a link. This guy did his homework and obviously realized how up the creek we all are, but we choose to look the other way because its comfortable. We want change but we want it to come to us in an app for our iphones so that when all is bad we just "app" it away.

I think this gentleman Mr. Thomas James Ball sacrificed himself for what he believed, right or wrong he did his homework and realized nothing will change with out blood so he did the ultimate.

God Bless him and I hope his actions go viral against the system.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1047074
United States
06/18/2011 09:47 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
1. Burning yourself to death is a permanent action.
2. Being behind on your child support is a temporary situation.
3. Being a parent for your child is a permanent action.
4. Being a flaming pile of fat and tissue is a temporary comment on a temporary frustration, but being DEAD is a permanent comment on a temporary situation.

The above indicate the individual had severe judgment problems and very low intelligence. The above also indicates the individual was incapable of empathy and consideration of long term consequences.

I conclude the individual was a sociopath. I conclude the individual lost his previous job because of his sociopathy -- he was insubordinate or stealing from his employer or both. I conclude the individual had tatoos and that the individual drank to excess. I conclude the individual's parents were divorced and his father was exceptionally abusive. I conclude the individual was divorced by his wife because of the individual's sociopathy -- it is likely the individual abused both wife and child on more than one occasion. I conclude the individual had already been in prison for some other sociopathic actions and was terrified of returning to prison because of homosexual issues.

In short, they guy was a sociopathic creep. I suspect he has now concluded his action was folly.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/18/2011 09:48 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
yeah what a pussy to not support his child and hit his 4 year old for a stupid reason. he brought all this on himself and he couldn't deal with the consequences.

good riddance. and wishing violence and death on public officials is despicable
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1408008


You must be a dumb fuck. Did you read the story moran!
IJumpInIt

User ID: 1305271
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06/18/2011 09:48 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
As I had posted earlier I dropped my Domestic Injunction/Child Support on my ex when I realized none could be a better parent than their natural father.

After talking with him tonight he said if he had killed himself then I could have collected his Social Security Benefits for the kids, for him roughly $1,200/mo.

Anyone know if this is true? For my own knowledge I am going to call the SSA tomorrow. That would mean even if one parent kills themselves they still pay up.

And yes there was debtors prison in the USA until 1833. Google it if you doubt it.

Peace
hf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1075612
New Zealand
06/18/2011 09:51 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
The poor guy. The ex wife will have to go and find a job. Hope the courts are satisfied the kids Daddy is dead.
Merry Oaks

User ID: 1388309
United States
06/18/2011 09:52 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
really, I have got to say too, since I have been in court for 10+ years over & over with my ex husband (his doing, by the way, I am a live & let live kind of gal, oh and I pay support to him & he makes 3X what I do...)

ANYWAY<
I must say, if james ball owed $2000 in support for not paying since 2009, that is $2000/2 years = 1000/year or 83.33 a month.

Really? This guy would rather kill himself than talk to a judge?

$83.33 a month is what he owed.

yeah.

I have been paying $200 in insurance and $600+ a month, plus half of all medical bills for a couple of years now & have one more year to go.

And, I repeat, the x makes 3x what I do already. He is buying resort property (literally) with the child support payments I make to him, and my son lives across the state. I see him maybe 2 weeks a year and still I pay thousands a year for him, plus the x bitches to my boy how awful I am, so yeah,

I have more than been in the "man's" shoes in this and have some insight about it all, not backseat driving like a lot of you here.

I have cred.
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Merry Oaks

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United States
06/18/2011 09:54 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
1. Burning yourself to death is a permanent action.
2. Being behind on your child support is a temporary situation.
3. Being a parent for your child is a permanent action.
4. Being a flaming pile of fat and tissue is a temporary comment on a temporary frustration, but being DEAD is a permanent comment on a temporary situation.

The above indicate the individual had severe judgment problems and very low intelligence. The above also indicates the individual was incapable of empathy and consideration of long term consequences.

I conclude the individual was a sociopath. I conclude the individual lost his previous job because of his sociopathy -- he was insubordinate or stealing from his employer or both. I conclude the individual had tatoos and that the individual drank to excess. I conclude the individual's parents were divorced and his father was exceptionally abusive. I conclude the individual was divorced by his wife because of the individual's sociopathy -- it is likely the individual abused both wife and child on more than one occasion. I conclude the individual had already been in prison for some other sociopathic actions and was terrified of returning to prison because of homosexual issues.

In short, they guy was a sociopathic creep. I suspect he has now concluded his action was folly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1047074


bump
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1380585
United States
06/18/2011 09:54 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Blow it out your ass. The guy was a deadbeat and an abuser. I'm in the area.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433036


How about this guy?
[link to www.wsoctv.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1075612
New Zealand
06/18/2011 09:56 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
yeah what a pussy to not support his child and hit his 4 year old for a stupid reason. he brought all this on himself and he couldn't deal with the consequences.

good riddance. and wishing violence and death on public officials is despicable
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1408008

Can't you read. Or didn't bother to read what happened.
arosebyanyothername

User ID: 1415639
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06/18/2011 10:00 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
I don't even want to respond to this hateful thread, but I will.

I'm not even going to read your posts from the last time I posted.

I've never seen such hate exhibited on a thread before.

Did any of you READ the man's statement?

Thought not.

Are you all too stupid to see the underlying problem here?

sheep That's all you are.
Merry Oaks

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06/18/2011 10:10 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
to all of you asking DID YOU READ THE MAN"S 10,000 word suicide note?

yeah, enough obviously to get a different picture than some of you.

just goes to show people see what they want to see and disregard the rest.


Obviously, Ball had bigger problems than an outstanding $2,062 debt.

Little of the rambling letter makes much sense. But Ball recounts a 2001 incident in which he was accused of hitting one of his children and which seemed to precipitate the divorce.

“My story starts with the infamous slapping incident of April 2001,” he wrote. While putting his 4-year-old daughter to bed, she began to lick his hand, he warned her three times to stop then slapped her.

Ball cut her lip, and his wife asked him to leave the house, he wrote…

Karen Ball filed for divorce three days after the slapping took place.

Okay, you’d think that a guy who shirks his child support, slaps around his kid, and then lights himself on fire wouldn’t engender much sympathy...

In any event, Happy Father’s Day. If you have a Dad who didn’t beat or molest you, didn’t embezzle money from you or your family, and kept his whoring enough on the down-low that he has never had to address it in a press conference, you better be getting that man a present.

Dads who manage to avoid all of the things mentioned in the previous paragraph are hard to find, and deserving of praise.



[link to abovethelaw.com]
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/18/2011 10:16 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
In 2009, James Ball lost his job and was unable to continue making child support payments. His ex-wife, Karen Ball, filed for a hearing on contempt of court, which the court scheduled for 6/24/2011. She alleges that Thomas owes thousands in back child support and attorney’s fees and demands the court sentence him to jail until he can pay the amounts demanded.

James Ball burned himself to death on June 16, 2011 using a large amount of gasoline in front of the Keene, New Hampshire court house. Thomas Ball in a "suicide letter" stated he believed he would end up in jail, saying:

I am due in court the end of the month. The ex-wife lawyer wants me jailed for back child support. The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. depending on who you ask. Not big money after being separated over ten years and unemployed for the last two. But I do owe it. If I show up for court without the money and the lawyer say jail, then the judge will have the bailiff take me into custody. There really are no surprises on how the system works once you know how it actually works. And it does not work anything like they taught you in high school history or civics class.
[link to freekeene.com]


THAT'S AMERICA...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


One Starred for the bogus thread title.

Shame on the OP for the deceptive summary and misleading characterization of an incredible story.
(at a minimum you could have included the very next paragraph)

I could have made a phone call or two and borrowed the money. But I am done being bullied for being a man. I cannot believe these people in Washington are so stupid to think they can govern Americans with an iron fist. Twenty-five years ago, the federal government declared war on men. It is time now to see how committed they are to their cause. It is time, boys, to give them a taste of war.

Jeers to all the posters who failed to actually read this article before commenting. (Hint: It was not about child support or debtors prison)


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433545


iamwith
iampuff
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06/18/2011 10:53 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
1. Don't HIT YOUR CHILDREN!
2. PAY YOUR CHILD SUPPORT!!!
3. IT WAS ONLY $3,000 !!! Bet he drove a car/truck worth more than that!!! Yet the selfish f**k chose to kill himself rather than take care of his child!
iampuff
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06/18/2011 10:57 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Shame on "grown" men that don't take care of their children!! My god!!! WEAK!!! No excuse! There are tons of single mothers out here that keep on keepin' on! Working several jobs....etc...Good riddence to you sir!
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2011 10:57 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
In 2009, James Ball lost his job and was unable to continue making child support payments. His ex-wife, Karen Ball, filed for a hearing on contempt of court, which the court scheduled for 6/24/2011. She alleges that Thomas owes thousands in back child support and attorney’s fees and demands the court sentence him to jail until he can pay the amounts demanded.

James Ball burned himself to death on June 16, 2011 using a large amount of gasoline in front of the Keene, New Hampshire court house. Thomas Ball in a "suicide letter" stated he believed he would end up in jail, saying:

I am due in court the end of the month. The ex-wife lawyer wants me jailed for back child support. The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. depending on who you ask. Not big money after being separated over ten years and unemployed for the last two. But I do owe it. If I show up for court without the money and the lawyer say jail, then the judge will have the bailiff take me into custody. There really are no surprises on how the system works once you know how it actually works. And it does not work anything like they taught you in high school history or civics class.
[link to freekeene.com]


THAT'S AMERICA...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


jails bad but its really not that bad. this guy should just maned up.
Anonymous Coward
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Puerto Rico
06/18/2011 11:13 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
A long read he sent to the newspaper.

And like one of the comments asked, why didn't he take the judge out with him? that if more people did this that would get their attention. He has a point, if just a few percent of the people wronged by the system took out the judges, prosecutors, etc there wouldn't be any left soon. Then they would dump their Second Set of Books and go back to the Constitution and Common Law.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2011 11:18 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
the system is corrupt

need to clean house

whoever supports a corrupt system needs to be hanged
Ceraphic

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06/18/2011 11:19 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!

;)
iampuff
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06/18/2011 11:21 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
If that was my "man" and he hit our child hard enough to split a lip...there would be nothing left of that c**k s**ker to burn!
kw
User ID: 1172143
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06/18/2011 11:50 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
This is an incredibly sad and disturbing story. However, the father was selfish and unloving.


 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


It is funny how women always say "what about the children" in order to turn men into slaves. Because that is what Child support is, slavery. Look up in the Old Testament the rules for keeping slaves and it becomes perfectly visible that most women are going to go to hell. As most women play the role of slave master throughout their lives.

And if enough men who have been reduced to slavery had the bravery of that guy to do things in an honorable way(heck of a lot better then taking vengeance on the mother or Judge)they would be giving their children something more important than money; hope for a future without slavery.

But spoken like a slave owner
trying to defend her right to keep men in chattel.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2011 11:51 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!

 Quoting: Ceraphic


dog doo has fallen from clouds like these, makes people feel like they are on fire too
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2011 11:53 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
...

to bad he did not think his children needed him as a dad more than all the $$$

also, I know OP was not a US resident when he said DEBTOR's PRISON in his title -

no such thing in the USA.
...
 Quoting: Merry Oaks

How is a dad supposed to feel when one must pay child support but is hardly allowed by the court to visit the children? Heck in the case we're discussing, if the authorities had not stepped in with both feet to destroy the marriage, they would still be married and we would have none of these issues.

OP is probably a US resident who not only lives here, but went to school here and paid attention when they discussed debtor's prison in history classes. He's saying it's back, and if "contempt of court" for not paying a debt (even if you can pay!) gets you put in prison, I would say that we do indeed have debtor's prison.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1193082


sorry, you are telling the wrong person here I have 10 + years with the court system here dealing with a self centered ex. When I read this guy's letter, the dead dad, he is way fucked up and so me me me no wonder he did this. Look into suicide. Sometimes it is how the "victim" chooses to punish those who are left behind.

Go to any court, any attorney, read up on laws instead of just siding with the men because all non-custodial parents pay support. Male or female. I pay support in fact and I am female. I have paid for years and yeah, go to court and tell your side or better, have an attorney tell your side and the judge can rule/overrule matters.


This (dead man) was a selfish bastard to kill himself. Bottom line. He abused and bullied his daughter, his ex wife and continues to do so from his grave because of his self centered actions.

shit. and this guy is a hero to you men?

how about the dad, the mom who pays their $2000 and faces it like a man, be it the problems in the marriage, the anger issues, gets help, addresses his weaknesses to make him/herself better?

why isn't that person the hero?
 Quoting: Merry Oaks


Why don't you prove it? Women are notorious liars when it comes to children and child support. How many times did you end up in jail for falling behind?

Slavery is slavery. And those who advocate cruel slavery belong in hell.
iampuff
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06/18/2011 11:55 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
[link to www.youtube.com]

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